response to lefty
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Alright boys, got a message on my bookface yesterday from a Bern victim. Wondering what you guys would have in response to this?
For the first part, I'm asking what arbitrarily defines need and who gets to do that. For the second part I'm just going to briefly mention how successful we've been in unconventional warfare.
Thoughts?
"Hey man, so I was doing some thinking on guns and I wanted to guage your thoughts on something. This whole assault weapon craze and watch list craze is so stupid to me, I feel that we are focused on the wrong thing completely. Wouldn't the next reasonable step be magazine limits? I feel having 8-12 bullet limits is more than adequate for both leisure and self defense. In turn, those who are able to circumvent a naturally flawed background check process would be limited in the damage they can do. If the Orlando shooter had smaller magazines, he'd have carried less ammo and had to reload more frequently. Curious your thoughts.
(As long as that thought isn't making sure citizens have the ability to fight a tyrannical government. Cause, I'm sorry man, but when tanks were invented, that went out the window. Our country spends more than the next dozen nations combined on military. The whole uprising thing is more than dead in the water.)"
Criminals don't follow laws.
Why punish the public for the actions of a madman?
>>30452283
Spree shooters have shown no aversion to reloading
Here is my response so far. I want to get some good things added, have it trimmed down a bit, so that it isn't plagued with arguments everyone has heard every day. If anyone has any insight on legal cases FOR unlimited mag capacity I would like to include those. His entire statement is conjecture and flawed logic, so I would like solid facts and figures to support my response.
"I don't support a mag ban or restriction. It existed in 1994-2004 and did nothing. It exists in California, New York, New Jersey, Colorado and does nothing. Ultimately, a magazine is a box with a spring inside of it. Easy to manufacture, easy to extend, impossible to restrict. I took two 30 round magazines, took the floorplates off them both and taped them together with one spring in the middle and made a 60 round magazine. It is impossible to define what one "needs" for any reason or purpose. I don't like talking in hypotheticals, but how accurate do you think someone would be if the shit hit hard enough to justify pulling the trigger? I imagine the adrenaline alone would destroy any semblance of accuracy. Now suppose multiple attackers. Two guys, now you've only got four attempts per each guy. Is that likely? No. Is it probable? Again, no. However, it still happens, has happened, and will happen again.
As to the second part, can you list any successful insurgency we have battled? Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. All massive failures. Sure, an AR-15 can't beatt a tank, but that is irrelevant if the tank is parked in a neighborhood with no idea who is friendly and who is hostile. That tank can't kick down doors. Tanks can't survive without infantry support. Infantry is harmed by bullets. A war waged on ourselves would be the biggest military blunder in modern history."
lawfull gun owners are a statistic non issue. the basis for all gun control is shit and fbi data backs this up. go away.
thats your response.
>>30452301
I am going to include this picture. Also I should add "what is going to stop him from carrying more magazines?"
This is my goal
>>30452283
As to the second part.
>>30452283
here's what i think is a good argument;
a well prepared person can indeed just carry more magazines for the same round count, having to reload is a negligible detail, especially when magazines are taped together jungle style like >>30452310
a person using a rifle in home defense is not well prepared and will not carry extra magazines on their person. they just grab the rifle with one loaded magazine and if that magazine is only 10 rounds there's a large chance that this isn't enough, as you might miss a lot of shots and you might have to fire a lot of shots back if the intruder is armed.
therefore, low capacity magazines would only handicap the unprepared person using a rifle in defense, it is a negligible obstacle for a prepared person.
>>30452756
Also remind him of the amount of magazines already in circulation. I don't even have an AR, but I have about 20 STANAG mags lying around from the Army. Those don't just disappear. They can't be confiscated in any significant way.
Restricting magazines will do absolutely nothing. Your opponent knows nothing about fighting or firearms, and you're probably being baited so he can trump you with some logical fallacy and post his "win" on Tumblr. Tread very lightly.
>>30452283
If these people think that asking someone to follow magazine laws is going to work, why not ask them to follow the "dont fucking murder people" laws instead?
>>30452283
>Curious your thoughts.
Low capacity magazines are lighter and often smaller, so he would just carry more mags and reload a few more times.
Wait, you're arguing on facebook?
What's next, you're going to tell me your vote counts?
>>30452283
Please remind your friend that civilians can own tanks. Since your friend thinks the government would beat its own civilians in a guerrilla setting, you can probably approach the argument from the standpoint that civilians should be empowered rather than restricted. If nothing else just do the "shall not be infringed" thing in all caps, remove him, then remove yourself.
>>30452288
This. Laws only matter to people willing to obey them, and the type of people willing to commit mass murder are not the people who care about laws.
>>30452845
This, it takes less than a second to change magazines and reacquire target.
To top it off if you think any criminal is going to abide by any law you're head isn't on tight.
And if you think stripping or hampering the rights of law abiding citizens is going to benefit or help anyone, again, where's your head at?
>>30453267
>it takes less than a second to change magazines and reacquire target.
That means we just need a bullet button!
This is what I wrote back
"I don't support a mag ban or restriction. It existed in 1994-2004 and did nothing. It exists in California, New York, New Jersey, Colorado and does nothing. Ultimately, a magazine is a box with a spring inside of it. Easy to manufacture, easy to extend, impossible to restrict. How many are in circulation right now? I personally have about 30-40 standard cap mags for the AR and AK. I took two 30 round magazines, took the floorplates off them both and taped them together with one spring in the middle and made a 60 round magazine. Low cap restriction is now evaded. So suppose you did have a mag cap in place. What is going to stop him from just carrying more magazines? It's not like, in the case of Pulse or Sandy Hook or any of the fish-in-a-barrel shootings, the reload time is going to even matter. How long was Omar Mateen in Pulse? 5 hours? What difference is a 5, 10, 20, or 100 round mag going to do over the course of five hours? For defensive purposes, all a mag limit does is restrict the defender. A prepared person, like a mass shooter, would just carry more mags while someone using a weapon in home defense would most likely grab the gun with whatever mag was in it. Will 10 shots be enough? How accurate are you going to be if your life is in severe enough danger where you feel justified pulling the trigger? I'm a pretty good shot but when there is adrenaline, darkness, moving targets, unprotected eyes/ears, that adds a lot of stress to the shooter that you don't get shooting in a controlled range."
(1/2)
>>30453283
(2/2)
As to the second part, can you list any successful insurgency we have battled? Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. All massive failures. Sure, an AR-15 can't beatt a tank, but that is irrelevant if the tank is parked in a neighborhood with no idea who is friendly and who is hostile. That tank can't kick down doors. Tanks can't survive without infantry support. Infantry is harmed by bullets. A war waged on ourselves would be the biggest military blunder in modern history. Final point, if the government would beat its own civilians in a guerrilla setting, civilians should be empowered rather than restricted
(fun side note, civilians can legally own tanks too)"
>>30452986
To top that off we've been having a hell of a time the last 15 years with a bunch of pot and poppy growing goat herders. Why would the US Gov't have an easier time trying to enforce tyranny here where there are educated machinists and chemists and fuck tons of well trained veterans who know how to use those tactics and how our military works?
If I can take out an M1-Abrams with a few fiberglass and metal pipes and tube and some homemade explosives and propellant and a shaped copper charge using melted down copper from wires I got at a home improvement store, why in the hell does this anon think our military would be quite so successful in a State vs. The People setting?
>>30453282
That doesn't fix anything, people put button tabs onto their gloves finger tips so they can change mags normally.
Like I said. Good luck getting people to follow these laws, and great job criminalizing law abiding citizens because of your own fears and misunderstandings and ridiculous laws.
California has some of the strictest gun laws in the country and yet some of the worst gun violence in the country.
>>30452790
And once they're restricted nationwide you'll see
>80% STANAG MAGAZINE FLATS!!!!!!!
For sale everywhere
Reply back
"Thanks for your input!"
>>30452283
I could hi-jack a semi at a local truck stop with nothing more than a box cutter. That's tens of thousands of pounds going at 60mph right smack dab into an elementary school. $50 says I take out at least 30 kids and come out of the whole thing without a scratch on me.
Does your fucktard friend think that mass murder is a new invention? How about when we used to kill each other by the thousands on the daily with swords and knives because religion. You know it used to be NORMAL to kill all the kids in a family, that way they don't grow up to seek revenge, or carry the bloodline. We've been murdering one another for hundreds of thousands of years, and suddenly we think it's the fault of an inanimate object?
Mass shootings are nothing but a symptom of the social disease that is rotting this country from the inside out. Parents are too worried about bills, school activites, social status and reality-tv to be good parents. We've got general physicians handing out anti-depression pills like they're fucking candy, for anyone that gets bored at work. Thinking too about "is this all there is to life" means you need anxiety medication. You can go to jail for slapping your kid. If a man hits on your wife and calls you a pussy, and you PUNCH that man, your ass ends up in jail. If you're white you're an entitled piece of shit. If you're a minority, well you're just oppressed so nothing is your fault. We've got no structure. no social consequences to degenerate behavior, no real universal definition of morality, and 3 generations of self-entitled snowflakes that grow up in echo chambers with ZERO coping mechanisms that are allowed to vote.
but yeah, I'm sure it's all because of how many bullets go in a fucking magazine.
I love my country, but I can't stand the fucking retards that live in it. fuck you and your faggot friend.
>>30453445
Fuck son, calm down.
>>30453445
>>30453473
>>30453484
I just pulled both my heads and one of them is cracked, then I got on /k/ and see this shit.
>don't worry
>I've got beer
>>30452301
Once anyone spots you, then you've got to worry about tanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QeBgbDQVks
>>30452283
No one bothered to stop him after he reloaded for the 31st bullet, would have forcing him to reload on 13 changed anything?
Also >>30452848 , arguing on facebook is pointless.
>>30452301
>>30453522
>>30452848
He literally reached out and messaged me to ask my opinion.
>>30453545
See
>>30452790
He's fucking baiting you dude. Nobody on Facebook is interested in honest discourse, especially a liberal.
>>30453443
>inb4 OP ends up in a blog post on Tumblr about how paranoid and crazy gun nuts are
>>30453627
Here comes round two
"What are your thoughts on not banning these high capacity mags, but rather restricting their first time purchase to a more vetted background check? I'm just sick of mentally ill people getting their hands on so much fire power so easily. I know the government is clunky as it stands, but you'd think we could implement SOMETHING to quell what's been going on. More guns isn't the answer just the same as less guns isn't the answer it appears. There's gotta be some middle ground that can help this mess."
I'm working a response comparing his first time ownership restriction to literacy tests for voting.
>>30453650
Agree wholeheartedly that we need to do something and suggest the implementation of legislature that would have allowed citizens to protect themselves from deadly attacks so there isn't a next time.
>>30452283
>I feel having 8-12 bullet limits is more than adequate for both leisure and self defense.
The cops don't feel the same
>If the Orlando shooter had smaller magazines, he'd have carried less ammo and had to reload more frequently.
The VT shooter had the previous high score and he did it with 10 round magazines.
Tell him he's ignorant and his opinions are shit.
>>30453650
>like 1 mentally ill person ever used those magazines, ever, to hurt someone. Banning all of them over that incident is tantamount to insanity. It's as "knee-jerk reactionary" as it gets.
>>30453673
>>30453685
Does anyone have the screencap of all the police opinions on civilian firearms ownership?
>>30453650
remind him that guns are expensive: the notion that one day a guy snaps and just goes out, buys a firearm and then shoots up a place isn't realistic. It takes MONTHS of penny pinching for the average person to save enough cash to buy a gun, and if you don't have to pinch your pennies to buy a gun, you're doing alright in life, so you won't go shooting up a place. When you're dealing with somebody who is willing to spend months planning to commit mass murder, they're gonna get what they want, no matter what.
These people are doing huge amounts of planning, regardless of what the media reports. And in the one instance where the guy already had guns lying around (Sandy Hook), he had to *murder his mother* to get access to them.
>>30453703
Is pic related what you mean?
>>30453984
yes, thanks!
>>30453788
Not only are guns expensive but he should be reminded that the firearm itself is where the vetting should come in to play if anywhere at all.
Magazines are easy to obtain regardless, and can be made with 16ga.-18ga. Steel or aluminum, some steel wire, a propane torch or oven, bucket of water, swage solder and a dremmel.
I can invest $100 and have all the tools and parts necessary to make 10 magazines for whatever size I need for whatever firearm I need.
It's not hard, it's much more difficult to manufacture a firearm, and having everything banned would just lead the mass-murder nut job to either manufacture their own firearms or make bombs which won't be any better of a situation.
At the same time it's the equivalent of making it illegal for people to drive or own cars because one asshole killed a bunch of people with a car/truck/bus, but to allow the State to have them.
Want a more direct comparison to magazine restrictions? Background checks or extreme restrictions before you can buy fuel, or even making fuel illegal to purchase or possess or manufacture.
>>30453650
>but you'd think we could implement SOMETHING
Doing something just for the sake of being seen doing something as opposed to thinking out your actions generally leads to more problems.
>>30454134
It's also something that shows the mental capacity of a toddler.
>>30453703
In case you want the direct source: http://police-praetorian.netdna-ssl.com/p1_gunsurveysummary_2013.pdf
>>30452283
Smaller mags just means more mags.
The Taliban and Al Queada have held up well enough against tanks and drones, not to mention the horrible PR they'd get for attacking their own citizens, the fact that we'd have a HUGE amount of defectors, and destroying your own infrastructure is never a good idea.
So basically he's wrong on both counts.
>>30452283
This is a video from a sheriff's department that shows reload speed makes little difference.
https://youtu.be/MCSySuemiHU
>>30454087
If magazines are so easy to make, then why do people buy them?
>>30455931
Why do people buy bagged salads?
>>30456106
Becuase I don't want to buy lettuce, croutons, bacon, parm cheese, olives, and dressing individually.
>>30452288
Delete this, now!
>>30455931
Convenience. Same reason you buy a pre made hamburger rather than slaughter a cow every day at noon.
>>30455931
Reloading ammo is also easy, but people think it's worth paying extra to not have to do shit themselves.
>>30452283
Do not reply or argue with libtards on social media; responding or counterpoints simply legitimizes their position as one worthy of applying logic against. Delete and block.
>>30452283
send them this
>>30456877
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzMx3Z5EbQQ
>>30452283
im a lefty but I hold my gun like a righty.
>>30452283
He already had to reload plenty if he shot 100 people, no one took those opportunities to try and stop him.
>>30452296
This cho held highscore and got a lot of kills with ten rounders
To be fair to OP's commie shit opposition, at least he's making an effort to be logical and reasoned.
A hillary shill would just be "REEEEE NRA loves dead kids!"
Working over the bernie supporter may yield a freedom minded individual after some more life experiences.
>>30452283
>posted something about the 2 girls who got shot by their mom on a car forum
>someone replied this
It honestly hurts to read
>>30452310
Why are those ghetto jungle style'd Tapcos giving me a hard on?
>>30452283
would limiting beer bottle sizes from 12oz to 4oz cut back on drunk driving or would people just buy more beer?
10x30 = 300rnds
30X10 = 300rnds. You just reload more frequently which aint no thing if your victims are unarmed and inebriated in a crowded club....
>>30460279
They're not jungle taped. The floor plates are taken off and there is one long spring in them. I turned two 30 round mags into a 60 round mag
>>30452301
Be sure to be welcoming and kind. Thank him for looking for compromise and acc epping that the other side has a valid opinion. We need more mlderates, less extreme lefts.
>>30462092
this
