When did Russia decide to give up on making 5th gen aircraft?
A
>>30443287
>What is the PAK FA?
>>30443301
A gen 4.5 aircraft at best
>>30443305
If its 4.5 gen then so is the f35
>>30443287
When they realized that the R&D costs into stealthy RCS characteristics aren't worth it and improvements in radar and advanced software detection algorithms have made reduced RCS planes obsolete.
>>30443287
I only see some floating fan blades and a ladder on the runway.
>>30443301
Not 5th gen
>>30443325
>F-35
Stealth
>PAK FA
Not stealth
>>30443287
>>30443305
the sixth prototype is a true 5 gen fighter though
>>30443325
Kek, nope
>>30443335
In what way? That they finally moved to hex bolts instead of rivets?
>>30443335
Yeah, except for its Super Hornet tier RCS in a generation that is about sensor-shooter aircraft.
>>30443353
idk what you are talking about but from the fifth prototype, they are not the same as previous prototype
and the sixth got a brand new engine
>>30443334
>>F-35
>Stealth
kek
>>30443402
Yeah, I can literally see the new engine.
Great job, slavs.
>>30443402
Again.
In what way is it now a 5th gen whereas before they weren't?
>>30443287
Based on this photo...... Are the russkies truly using just the compressor section of the engine to slow down air flow below Mach?
> remember children, air flow threw a turbine has to be sub sonic for it to work.
Or is there some form of slavic space magic involved here?
>exposed fan blades.
>>30443353
Don't you mean from hex bolts to rivers? Russian are notorious for building planes out 1in bolts and vodka bottles.
>>30443705
Jesus auto correct. Rivets* out of*
>>30443446
mostly the engine
>>30443325
>>30443325
>>30443749
You mean the still a marginal upgrade, not the one they actually wanted engine?
Sorry slav, not much of an improvement.
>>30443749
Engines alone are not what makes a jet a 5th gen aircraft
>>30443823
Shit, VLO isn't even the primary attribute. It's all about local and remote sensor fusion with high-bandwidth comms. The VLO is just access and survivability to get the sensors into position and the standoff munitions into range.
>>30443446
It's a first prototype full equipped with stealth measures and painting.
>>30443846
Nothing that you just said had anything to do with engines.
slavs can't into 5th gen
>>30443859
fully equipped with stealth measures?
So they added the necessary S-ducts for a reasonable RCS, then?
>>30443859
>full equipped with stealth measures and painting.
Where's the nozzle cowling? The nozzle end treatment? When are they going to bother aligning panel edges properly? When will the canopy be addressed?
>>30443868
>Nothing that you just said had anything to do with engines.
No doubt. I was just noting that /k/ often forgets what 5th gen actually means as far as operating paradigm when we get into all these dick measuring threads.
>>30443916
>I was just noting that /k/ often forgets what 5th gen actually means as far as operating paradigm when we get into all these dick measuring threads.
The US implemented 5th gen with VLO characteristics and each flavor has had VLO characteristics since.
It's a primary attribute as much as sensor fusion and avionics are.
>>30443287
no moneys
>>30443935
>It's a primary attribute as much as sensor fusion and avionics are.
Let's just pretend we spent the next 100 posts arguing about semantics and what the engineering mission tree means, but don't actually do it.
Unless you're bringing newer program engineering concepts into the discussion that I'm unfamiliar with, you won't change my mind. And I'm pretty damn sure I won't change yours.
So cheers to 5th gen, a radically changed battlespace and the Gulf War-vindicated high technology approach to procurement. Moving on.
stealth is a meme new russian radars can easily detect and track b-2s
>>30445591
[citation needed]
>>30446183
serbians did it with 1960s radars and aussies do it all the time with kangaroo ears
>>30446321
Serbs detected F117 when they had a known time and place to look, because Clinton's ROE restrictions were absurd.
>>30446355
>still parroting this meme
kek burgers are hilarious
>>30443287
because they can shoot down other country's 5th generation aircraft for a fraction of the price
>>30446376
Because you're claim that it was a B2 is so much more credible.
Face it, with 150mw lasers coming into production, the only hope a plane or missile has is escaping protection, and you are 30 years behind the US in LO tech.
>>30443404
>The F-35’s cross section is much smaller than the F-22’s, but that does not mean, Hostage concedes, that the F-35 is necessarily superior to the F-22 when we go to war.
http://breakingdefense.com/2014/06/gen-mike-hostage-on-the-f-35-no-growlers-needed-when-war-starts/3/
>"I would say that General Hostage … is accurate in his statement about the simple stealthiness of the F-35 [with regard] to other airplanes," Bogdan said in the interview. The statement was accurate for radar cross section, as measured in decibels, and range of detectability, he said, and he scoffed at the notion that anyone can tell how stealthy an aircraft is just by looking at it.
http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2014/December%202014/The-F-35-on-Final-Approach.aspx
>During a flight debriefing, Col. Chris Niemi and Maj. Nash Vickers both said a comparison of the radar-absorbing F-35 to its nimble but less stealthy twin-engine F-22 cousin might not reveal the whole story.
>Niemi has eight years in the cockpit of an F-22 and is one of the few Air Force pilots who is qualified in both the Raptor and the F-35 Lightning II. He said he wanted to set the record straight on the Lightning II, once and for all. “Many have compared the F-22 to the F-35 but that comparison is unfair. With the F-35 Lightning, this fighter sees better, has more range, and is stealthier than any of its predecessors. This airplane, with its fly by wire technology, is super easy to fly and it has a very linear response.”
www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/August/06/F35-Lightning-public-debut-shows-the-right-stuff
>>30443568
They use intake ramps like F-15s and previous Sukhois
>>30444025
>None of your facts will convince me of the reality that the PAK-FA is Gen 4.5!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrU1hZxSEXQ
>>30446355
>Serbs detected F117 when they had a known time and place to look,
Flying exact same route daily for weeks, the bomb bay door was open, still took a huge risk attempting to get a lock...
>>30443287
When they realized marginal improvements on an already unnecessarily large airforce would be a waste and that they can make stupid claims about regular improvements and people would still cheer with the same passion.
>>30448179
What are you talking about? I'm a burger, and I wasn't even arguing for or against the PAK-FA in any way. I made an observation on the nature of 5th gen design priorities and operational use. An anon took exception.
Read the fucking thread next time.
>>30443287
they didn't give up, it's just that the tech is not cost effective and there are other alternate ways of getting around the whole "avoid being hit" problem all together that's even cheaper and more effective.
pic related, it's basically describing MURRICA's obsessed with something that there are other ways around it, like the whole stealth thing
>>30450505
>there are other alternate ways of getting around the whole "avoid being hit" problem
Which would be?
>>30443301
Not working.
>>30450505
How dumb are you?
The best way to avoid being hit by a missile more maneuverable than any jet is to not get targeted.
>>30450505
What cheap ways?
>>30443287
You don't need stealth to remove kebab
>>30446183
>what is L-band: the post.
>>30451823
>L-band
>tracking a target
Kill yourself
>>30451843
Track and lock on are two different things.
>>30451823
B-2s have great UHF/VHF stealth charicteristics due to not haveing any vertical surfaces.
B-21 will take it to the next level.
>>30451850
Detection and tracking is two different things.
>>30451823
>l-band radar weapon guidance
Here's the thing: L band radar doesn't provide that much information.
A very good L band system with state of the art signal processing gives you a funny feeling that maybe, somewhere, a stealth aircraft exist. It will give you this feeling about clouds, thermal layers and the ephemeral dreams of childhood as well.
the commanders realized it would fail and decided to reappropriate the funds for more practical purposes... some potato related liquids come to mind.
>>30452050
On that note.
The higher end, non-Ageis Euros navies seem quite attached to L-band. UK, France, Dutch and Italy all use SMART-L radars or derivatives of it.
>>30448179
>getting BTFO this hard by your own shit reading comprehension
Hearty keks, friendo.
>>30452050
Early L-band radars were like that.
Modern ones aren't.
Still not good enough to give you information like range and exact location sufficient for a firing solution, but enough to slew X-band radars in that direction or direct fighters to intercept.
>>30443404
>Russia
>Asian
There we go.
>>30446376
The way international airspace works means that aircraft has to take predictable paths. Its how the swedes managed to lock onto the sr-71 and how other exactly when and where to intercept us aircraft. Not that it matters anyway.
Did they? Initial batch T-50s is entering service in less than a year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox0bAM_R8Uk
They put all their money into the Armata platform
>>30443287
Cause 5th gen is a fucking meme.
For every single 5th gen fighter you make, one can make 2-3 4th gen fighters.
If you maximize production you can just full brute force and maximize research in air detection technology.
>>30452371
Not good 4th gen fighters. If you want fancy detection gear on those 4th gens (pretty much making them 4.5th gens) you're going to pay ~2/3 to 4/5 as much as a 5th gen, while still being considerably less capable.
>>30452389
This is not factoring in development time.
Why get 5th gen fighters and production lines in 10-20 years when 4th gen will work for 30 more years and you don't have to bother with development.
It's simply put a question of numbers and time. Eventually they will have to commit hard on it, but they have plenty of spare time.
>>30443287
PAK FA is not 5th gen fighter? Why, because LM said so? kek
>>30452120
Sure, if the fighters aren't actively detecting the scans and evading/destroying the radar sites.
>>30452402
Well, Russia's still that far behind, yeah. The US already has over 360 5th Gens, and we can actually afford it, unlike the Russian Kleptocracy.
>>30452460
>No stealth
>Russian Comms and Sensors
>5th Gen
topkek
>>30443402
What a fuck ugly plane.
>Woody the woody pecker cockpit and nose.
>>30452402
They'll work for 30 more years, but will they be effective is the real question.
>>30443327
Pretty much this. Russia can build something like 4-5 Pak FA's over a 5 year period, creating a force of them is really just outside their budgets.
There's some evidence that Russia is just focusing on upgrading radar equipment to track stealth aircraft. Given enough time, they'll probably figure it out.
>>30452050
>>30451823
L band is more for over the horizon tracking of large objects, and bomber formations back in the day. Hence the "L", long range.
Weather radar's operate in the S and C band. Generally their resolution is in the kilometers as well.
X band is for fire control, but stealth aircraft happen to have specialized their coatings for X band, for obvious reasons.
Higher wavelengths than the K bands run into all sorts of issues from atmospheric absorption, literally water droplets in the atmosphere will resonate and absorb the signal. You get tons of resolution at a very short range (Airport Thz wave scanner).
>>30452526
You're not going to be "evading" L-band.
Even Russian 1970s VHF radars had a range of ~250km. Unless you mean "evading" as in "Never going anywhere near", in which case they've just denied your entire airforce from operating.
>>30452901
>L band is more for over the horizon tracking of large objects, and bomber formations back in the day. Hence the "L", long range.
L refers to low frequency.
>>30452920
You are indeed correct; I have definitely heard it taught as "Remember L for Long", however.
I actually liked the old radar band system, the new NATO one is A-M and not as clear which band fulfills which function. For work everything is just IEEE or old NATO, so i'm not sure what the point of it was.
>>30452909
That doesn't improve the range of X-band, which is needed to actually target stealth planes, at all. Plus it just makes you an easier target for a JSOW-ER, AARGM, or SDB if you're actively transmitting in L-band. Nothing about it renders Stealth useless.
![sour_grapes_by_mittymandi-d5csb0u[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4LT6zrS.jpg "sour_grapes_by_mittymandi-d5csb0u[1].jpg")
>ITT: Vatniks being pic related about Stealth/5th Gen
>>30452973
Never said it did, just some misconceptions of how L-band / VHF radars work now. Not as unreliable as they once were.
But they are useful in directing your IAD / CAP towards threats.
>>30453142
>But they are useful in directing your IAD / CAP towards threats.
And again, by the point that they can get useful engagement data the F-22/F-35 already has them dead to rights, so it's still not as useful as people are making them out to be.
>>30451861
"is" and "are" are two different things
