I'm wondering what the attitude to gun ownership is in states with recreational marijuana.
There's quite a bit of talk on how states are denying CCW permits to those in possession of medical marijuana cards and not to mention Form 4473 11.e specifically naming marijuana as a prohibitory clause to owning/purchasing firearms.
Does the ATF need to review 11.e?
Should marijuana users give up their gun rights?
Should medical marijuana patients choose between pain and self-defense?
I suffer from migraines and back pain and considered getting a medical marijuana card (Arizona) but after reading about the potential consequences courtesy of the federal police, I value my guns more than pain relief - disappointed I had to make that decision...
Weed is way safer than alcohol. If you're allowed to buy beer and still own firearms, it should be no different for weed.
>>30433521
Like I'm gonna go sit in a tree stand for hours without getting high first. Let's be real here.
>>30433521
If you live in Arizona you can have guns and your weed card. You can not purchase a gun from a ffl with a medical card, it is a federal felony.
>falsifying a federal document
These libtards think we'll trade our guns for the ability to legally smoke weed. Like I don't grow that shit illegally and smoke it anyway.
*lights muh blunt with muh assault weapon*
>are you an unlawful user of
It's legal in Alaska and the Federal Government said they weren't going after casual users.
>or addicted to
I don't think you can be addicted to marijuana.
gun owners shouldnt be able to buy weed, not the other way around
>>30433759
All use of cannabis is illegal, federally speaking.
>>30433521
I live in Colorado, where recreational cannabis is legal. However, every FFL dealer in state that I've spoken with assures me it is VERY illegal to own/smoke cannabis and own a gun at the same time. Seems a little off.
>this state will shoot your dog is you dont turn them in
>vets with ptsd and rec. cards are prohibited peoples now
>>30433779
So is being here illegally.
>what are sanctuary cities
>>30433779
Come and SMOKE IT!
SHALL NOT BE EXHALED!
Coloradofag here,
You can't hold a CCW while also holding a weed card.
Otherwise, well, it's a matter of some dispute. Fudds at the funshop have all pretty much told me that 11.e means no weed ever or straight to pound town with you.
Several lawyers on the other hand have told me that as written, you're safe to be a recreational user and to buy guns because the wording of 11.e.
Buuuuuut, there's not a lot of precedent for a lot of weed related things and the Sate and Feds are all trying to figure out how to deal with it.
Lt:dr; pretty much fine to CCW in CO as long as you don't register for a med card. Probably.
>>30433682
kek, I like you.
>>30433521
>4473
If it's legal for you to smoke weed, then you cannot be an unlawful user of same.
"Addiction" would be hard to qualify, as well.
It's an intoxicant like alcohol, treat it like alcohol. Recreational use is fine as long as it's not combined with guns or cars. If you're high then you can't be handling a weapon or driving, simple as that. But just smoking weed occasionally shouldn't be justification for not letting a person own or operate a gun ever.
>>30433859
Kek you fucking got me.
>>30433521
To add to the discussion of the term 'legal'
https://www.atf.gov/file/60211/download
It will be federally legalized in the next 10 years, 20 at most. States are voting on it every year. The US attorney general created a loophole so the state could actually get their tax money off the sales, as it was still "illegal" for federal banks to launder the money. Denying someone a CCL in a state where it is recreationally legal is asinine. Denying medical card holders is fucking criminal, as if they gauntlet of drugs the VA issues out is one iota better than any form of cannabis.
How long does one have to abstain from marijuana to no longer be classified as an "unlawful user"?
>>30433521
I live in California and have had my med card for as long as I have bought guns so like 4 years of combined medical mj and guns and have never been stopped from purchasing anything I want in either field. I do mark no on the question regarding mj on 4473 though.
>>30434217
4 seconds.
>>30434276
>Lie on federal paperwork
That's what I assume all MMJ users do and of course no one would have reason to question you unless you use the MMJ card as your ID when purchasing a gun
I worry about an eventual cross-check between MMJ cardholders and firearm owners
>>30434326
The 4473 form that you fill out is stored at the place where you bought the firearm. The only time the government sees it is if they do a raid or audit the store.
>>30433759
>I don't think you can be addicted to marijuana
Not physically, but psychological addiction is a thing.
>>30434436
>psychological addiction
That's just a liberal way of taking your money with a diagnosis that doesn't exist.
>>30434436
if you get the no-weed insomnia, that's a symptom of physical addiction.
you put anything in your body with enough frequency and over a long enough time, the body will cry out for it when its not there.
i used to smoke my weight in pot every year
>>30433521
This thread is very interesting to me. I'm a Coloradan, and very enjoy occasionally smoking Marijuana when going on long hikes or when at a concert.
I would never smoke weed before going shooting, but I do carry when I go hiking or bushwacking for self defense and in case I run into a cougar, moose, or bear.
It would be nice to have the peace of mind that I could run into a ranger or cop while high in the woods, and have no problems.
>>30433988
>next 10 years, 20 at most.
fuck that's too long. I need opium to become legal for occasional recreational use. I'll be dead before they ever get around to easing up on opiates.
>>30434290
>4 seconds.
nah, takes about 350 seconds to be exact
Washington here
You guys seriously need to chill out
>>30436012
>Green State
God-Damned hippies !
>_<
>>30435247
what you just described is only applicable to weak minded people. it is scientific fact that weed is not physically addictive nor does it cause cancer.
>>30433779
Fuck the Fed
STATES RIGHTS NOW
>>30433521
Every one I know here shoots guns and smokes weed, some of those are in law enforcement...no fucks are given. Just don't be a retarded stoner.
>>30433696
Does having a medical card actually prove that you have ever used Marijuana?
I want to travel from AZ to CO for a brief family holiday. I conceal carry everywhere I am permitted by law to do so.
I wonder what the implications are of buying some recreational marijuana when in CO if I were to somehow attract the attention of the police...
Possession of firearm, prohibited substance, crossing state line etc.
Am I overthinking this?
>>30433521
Irony or irony. States with legal pot are gun unfriendly.
Dude weed is more important than rights.
>>30436162
Nope but it could warrant a investigation.
>>30436101
>Please be CO, please be CO.
>>30436182
If you're in CO, run into STATE law enforcement, have your CC on you as well as a quantity of marijauna, you should be fine assuming you have reciprocity and aren't breaking any laws.
Possessing weed is legal, CC with reciprocal permit is legal. Two legal things as far as I can tell.
>>30436101
>don't be a retarded stoner.
>retarded stoner
aren't those two words inseparable?
>>30435942
>not 420 seconds
Fug mang
>>30436229
Yeah I'd be travelling with my IL and AZ CCW permits. I'd probably leave my gun in the hotel if I were to go to a dispensary as I assume they're gun-free zones anyway...?
I guess it's not often a common person bumps into FEDERAL law enforcement, however, I assume STATE law enforcement have the discretion of passing you on to FEDERAL law enforcement if they want to set an example
>>30436197
>States with legal pot are gun unfriendly.
I've shot my rifles while stoned out in CO. My HIGH-CAPACITY CLIPS WITH SHOULDER THING THAT GOES UP was my weapon of choice
Only time I've lit up while handling guns is when I'm grouse hunting on my family's land.
A nice slow walk innawoods with a gun while baked is maximum comfy.
>>30436197
My little part of WA is pretty gun-friendly. Probably because it isn't Seattle.
>>30433521
then dont get a card
>>30434326
I'm not lying on the 4473, I don't use medical mj for recreational use, it's for medical reasons such as back pain and depression, literally nothing else helps and I would've put a bullet in my head long since if it wasn't for medical marijuana. And I shouldn't be trivialized just because I absolutely love guns and weed. I'm perfectly responsible and safe and weed made me more introspective of gun ownership and what it means to own firearms and respect them
>>30433892
Do you need a card to buy weed recreationally?
>>30437224
I hear it also cures cancer, lumbago, Kawasaki disease, phlebitis, and impotency! Wow, it's amazing!
>>30437458
yeah, tripfag, we know, you never ever had a social life and never got to try out fun drugs with your friends because you have none
i fucking hate tripfags
>>30433797
Recreational cannabis is NOT legal anywhere in the US
>>30437458
Shut your dick holster, neverserved. I'm a care provider for a fucking cripple and that shit works wonders for him, too.
>>30437489
Are you retarded or do you literally just never leave your house?
>>30437489
There is a profound difference between de facto and de jure law.
>>30437504
>What is the Controlled Substances Act 1970
;^)
>>30437478
>Marijuana
>fun drug
It's hardly a step above sobriety. Start doing meth and we'll talk.
>>30437385
Nope.
>>30436162
No but your piss test will
>>30435185
someone doesn't know shit about mental illness and substance abuse
>>30435423
They can't arrest you for having nothing on you
>>30437458
It doesn't completely cure being an asshole, but it does help the condition. I suggest you start immediately
>>30437592
They can't test my piss if I drink it before they get to is.
>>30437224
>I'm not lying on the 4473
It's not a point to argue mate - you ARE lying as it's still illegal on a FEDERAL level and the form is a FEDERAL form
>>30437627
>I suggest you start immediately
I really can't wait until it's federally legal for all purposes so that people will stop talking about how it cures every malady on God's green earth.
>>30437546
I forget, what clause in the constitution authorizes the federal government to regulate intrastate commerce?
>>30436486
>>30436459
Coloradan here.
Can I open carry while high as I hike in national forest? I don't intend to shoot, I'm carrying as a precaution.
I understand it is against CO State law to possess marijauna while on federal property within the state, so I assume that the ranger or officer who meets me would either let me go, or get me for having weed in the national forest?
>>30437615
Good point.
>>30433521
weed is like alchohol and tobacco
every now and then its fine
then there's the ass hats that ruin it for everybody else like alway
i think it shouldn't be penalized but the problem lies in the ass hats that abuse the system just to get high.
>>30437638
Shit. I think this guy is right guys.
Too bad all the fucktards passed Universal Background checks in 2012. Once could conceivably buy a firearm through a private sale and then circumvent lying on the federal form, right?
I should have gone into political law..
>>30437724
I thought in Colorado you have a 15round mag capacity?
>pinned?
>>30437668
The same one the 9th Circus used to invalidate the Montana FFA
>>30433920
Weed is not "legal" anywhere in the United States
Some states have decriminalized it by removing punishments and such at their level, but it is still schedule 1 narcotic, which makes it a federal felony
>>30437747
(((I bought a shitload of 30 rounders before the ban))). All magazines owned before the ban are grandfathered in. Get this though, you can't gift them or give them to your children. Fucking nanny state.
>>30433797
I can imagine the court case now
The US government vs a gay couple that carry guns and smoke weed in Colorado. No one will know what side to be on. It will be hilarious
>>30433521
>I suffer from migraines
sumatriptan
>back pain
nsaids and fix your form
>>30437856
Or you could make like a real American and let people do as they please so long as it doesn't directly interfere with any of your negative individual rights.
>>30437815
>What they going to confiscate them when you die?
>>30437875
Or you could just admit you're drugs for recreational reasons instead of lying with the medical bullshit.?
>>30437921
Sorry I think I misunderstood your post. My apologies. I thought you were claiming that any individual using Marijuana for migraines or back pain should instead opt for pharmaceuticals for some obscure moral reason.
All my CO bros, you guys see that ANOTHER repeal of the mag ban made it past the senate? Hopefully it doesn't get shut down again in the house. What can we do to help it along?
>>30435247
cool story faggot
>>30438025
take libs shooting and convince them to vote to repeal the ban.
Anyone in MA shoot and get high?
Preferably western MA?
What if one started using marijuana AFTER they filled out the form? Would they have lied if at the time they had never used any? It seems very hard to prove when someone had started using the substance. Or is it just illegal to use marijuana and own firearms?
>>30433521
Grow your own and be discreet.
>>30438339
I thought you were anti-degenerate phil
>>30440114
Best way to get people to disrespect law is to pass unenforceable ones.
Having this be federal policy is either a really dumb move, or a really smart one. All depends on the game they're playing.
>>30436197
Had a medical guy get his plants and guns robbed and the cops found them and returned them both.
State has hands off policy currently and as long as you're not being retarded you're OK from what I've heard
>>30435921
>from heroin OD
>>30433521
Nothing going to change until it's federally legal.
>>30433521
On the top of smoking and shooting, does anyone else notice an improvement in there shooting when they've smoked a little bit?
I've found it steadies my hands and makes me focus on the shot more.
>shot this stoned
>>30442426
>go innawoods
>set out guns and load mags
>sit down on a stump
>smoke a nice joint in nature
>enjoy shooting
>go home
No noticeable improvement in accuracy but this is the most calming relaxation ritual I've ever had.
Freedom is absolute, a piece of paper and the social norms of a bunch of liberal soccer moms/conservative bible thumpers should never dictate the way you live your life.
>>30444317
>that is, right until you end up living in a 6X11 box with a roommate.
>>30444905
>giving up your freedom willingly
keep kissing those boots, bernie
>>30435423
Hmm brings up an interesting question about Federal land. The ranger is the highest authority there and he is a direct employee of the Fed. In any case Fed law technically trumps state laws, it's just the current administration has little interest in doing much about the legal weed movement. The states are deciding amongst themselves now and in 5 or so years we'll probably have the Fed speak up. Unfortunately in the mean time legal weed grow ops are force to use cash to avoid Federal seizure.
>>30437815
Just take them apart, then they are technically "magazine rebuild kits" and there is no law saying you can't put them back together once you're back home.
Thats what every gun shop that isn't either a national chain or fudd supply does.
>>30433682
fucking lol
>>30433882
>tfw used to smoke pot
>wife doesn't like the idea
>tfw all this thread makes me want to do is toke up and read Hemingway like the good ol days
>>30433521
Get your "medicine" from a private "pharmacist" like a normal person. Gubment don't need to know yo bidniss
>>30433759
> No way I smoke everyday man, if I was addicted I would know.
>>30435185
>what is gambling addiction
>what is sex addiction
>what is a compulsion
>>30448406
Make/buy edibles or tea. What the wife doesn't know won't hurt her (:
Unless of course you kill her you dangerous degenerate junkie
>>30437921
> opiate prescriptions are okay because if the government approves it it must be safe!
> FUCKING REEFER-SMOKING DEGENERATES KILL YOURSELVES REEEEEEEEEE
>>30433521
>Should medical marijuana patients choose between pain and self-defense?
absolutely, in the same way an alcoholic SHOULD be forced to choose between deadly force and his crippling, judgment-inhibiting addiction. weed has this enormous grass-roots movement behind it but somehow people are forgetting that kids thinking something is cool doesn't exactly translate into effective policy.
stoners are addicts in the same way that prescription drug users can be addicts -- it doesn't matter WHY you started your addiction in the first place; what matters is the fact that you're a fucking addict with diminished capacity for logic and rationality for a significant part of your day. that's frankly completely incompatible with the responsibility required to be a bearer of deadly force.
>>30437660
It's " m'lady "
>>30437458
"stop liking things i don't like!"
>>30433521
DUDE WEED LMAO SMOKE WEED EVERYDAY NIGGAS PUFF PUFF MAJIK DRAGON MY EYES ARE SO RED XDDD
>>30448656
Sorry but you don't understand the definition of addiction if you think it's even possible to be addicted to marijuana
>>30448926
sorry, you don't understand the definition of addiction if you think it requires a physiological depenence. there's a word for what you're going through, and it's called "denial."
>>30448960
Sorry that you're a passive aggressive twat, but the fact of the matter is that a substance is not addictive because people abuse it.
You wouldn't say cheeseburgers are addictive, yet there are people "addicted" to them.
>>30448902
HEY MAN I JUST LIKE TO HAVE A NICE COLD BEER AFTER WORK, OR GO OUT WITH THE GUYS AND HAVE A DRINK AT A BAR, ITS NICE WHILE WATCHING THE GAME, GO SOX SPONSORED BY BUDWEISER
after a few drinks
FUCKING SHIT MAN, *BURP* FUCK THE FUCKING YANKEES *FALLS OVER* THEY'RE FUCKING QUEERS AND THE LOT OF THEM IS HOMOSEXUALS *THROWS UP ALL OVER A TOILET* I LOVE YOU KYLE WHO I JUST MET, YOU'RE MY BEST FRIEND YOU KNOW I LOVE YOU *DRIVES HOME* "only buzzed"
>>30448976
i'm not being passive aggressive, maybe you're misinterpreting my words in your drugged out stupor. in fact, let's clear the air real quick: you're a fucking idiot. there. now, the actual point is not whether a SUBSTANCE is addictive, that's almost wholly irrelevant. what matters is if PEOPLE can get addicted to it. what is an addiction without a human component?
the fact that you don't develop a physiological dependence to a substance is wholly unrelated to the fact that you can become addicted to it regardless. addiction does NOT need a physiological component.
>>30449049
Then your entire concept of addiction is meaningless. It applies to everything.
By your definition you can be addicted to french fries, you can be addicted to sex, and by no exaggeration there is at least someone addicted to literally everything on earth.
When you define something so broadly it loses it potency. Yes, people are psychologically "addicted" to weed, but there are people psychologically "addicted" to food and they don't get anywhere near the same treatment. (even though I think they actually deserve the flak, having been a part of both groups at different points in my life)
>>30449108
okay, we agree. so do french fries inhibit your capability to make judgment calls on how/when to use deadly force? if you have a lot of sex is your mind directly impaired significantly for a large portion of the day? i'm not here to argue with you about whatever infantile, half-realized notions you've developed about your drug use. the point is that people who are drug addicts should under no circumstances be allowed to have deadly weapons, because a component of THEIR addiction is a severely impaired mindstate for a significant portion of their waking lives.
I've been a daily smoker for about a year now and if I'm not able to smoke at the end of the day I can get pretty irritable and anxious. I know it's not physical (no shaking hands or anything) but if you've actually smoked consistently for awhile you know there is a very real mental dependency that develops.
![2015-10-10_01.43.37[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/R4TAKjo.jpg "2015-10-10_01.43.37[1].jpg")
little late to this thread
TX poorfag desu what up
I don't shoot high but I love cleaning my guns while toasted.
![2016-02-19_21.59.39[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6GshbyB.jpg "2016-02-19_21.59.39[1].jpg")
>>30449206
oops wrong pic
>>30449145
>so do french fries inhibit your capability to make judgment calls on how/when to use deadly force?
In fact I can give you one hypothetical example right off the top of my head.
>Mr. Lardass drives to his local McDonalds to get his bi-daily double order of large french fries when he's approached by Lamar Ne'erdowell on his way inside
>Mr. Lardass is legally carrying a pistol
>Lamar attempts to rob him, Lardass wants to run but physically can't due to french fries, he believes that he's forced to escalate the situation and both men end up dead
french fries kill, nigger.
Also, I never even said I currently smoke weed, just that I used to. I'm clean for a federal job right now but I'd be smoking and shooting in a heart beat if I could.
>>30449240
>I never even said I currently smoke weed
could have fooled me. i had you positively pegged as a slavering, catatonic stoner
>>30433818
>ptsd
>weed
Pretty terrible combination m8, imagine they'd be paranoid enough as it is.
>>30449268
Funny, I have you pegged as a whiny, holier than thou nerd.
>>30449145
You do understand almost everyone on a long term prescription medication is technically a drug addict right?
1/10 people in this country are prescribed an opiate pain killer, yet you act like weed smokers are physically addicted wrecks breaking into cars and selling ass on the street.
>>30449297
You have to understand that authoritarianism is the prevailing attitude on this board
If uncle sam told you drugs are bad then he's 100% right and drugs are always bad
>>30449288
don't get butthurt, i'm complimenting you. you might have a career as the next spicoli
>>30449297
that actually has literally nothing to do with anything i'm trying to say. that's a pretty fucking impressive lack of reading comprehension.
>>30448656
>weed has this enormous grass-roots movement behind it
heh
>>30449357
"the point is that people who are drug addicts should under no circumstances be allowed to have deadly weapons, because a component of THEIR addiction is a severely impaired mindstate for a significant portion of their waking lives."
I understand you perfectly. For whatever head-up-ass reason you don't understand what I mean.
You're purposefully nitpicking a largely harmless group while ignoring the much larger more dangerous group that already exist around you every single day doing the exact thing you're shrieking over.
>pic related
Funny how a form 4473 dosent ask if you've been prescribed Percocet for 10 years. Guess it's safer to rail morphine than smoke a doobie.
>>30449542
>That image
>143 painkiller prescriptions per 100 people
>minimum of 52 painkiller prescriptions per 100 people
What?
>>30449542
you can keep pretending i think it's okay for opiate addicts to be owning weapons too if you think it makes your argument stronger. you think potheads are harmless. maybe, but being harmless isn't enough when you are in possession of a weapon. you need to be mindful, make accurate judgments of situations. when you're carrying a gun you don't get to just drift off into hehe land; you are carrying an instrument that could easily result in the deaths of yourself and the people around you.
it is an actual responsibility. i know a lot of people from your generation don't believe in that word anymore, but it is your civic duty when carrying a weapon to be as clear-headed as you possibly can, because if while you're all fucked up and high you make a dumb decision -- even without explicit criminal intent -- you are responsible for whatever happens.
i'm personally not comfortable giving that responsibility to drug addicts of any denomination.
>>30449607
some folks need more than one?
Alternately it doesn't say if those are current prescriptions or just people who "have been prescribed in the past x years" which would be pretty much anyone who went to the doctor for something more serious than a sprain
>>30449607
Most people who can get 1 scrip will go from doctor to doctor getting (sometimes) DOZENS of prescriptions for the same thing, usually Oxy and Valium. It's an enormous black market, especially in the south where it's what housewives and old people do to make a little extra dosh.
So yeah, I doubt there's any state that has less that 50 prescriptions per 100 people, and there are DEFINITELY places with well over 100.
>>30449624
I say if you're carrying stoned you're an idiot but don't really have a problem with innawoods
>>30449624
So by that logic, people who drink coffee or take tylenol/ibproufen should also not own guns.
>>30449287
i've heard about vets who smoke indica and it helps but then they try sativa and it makes them super paranoid
>>30449663
i still think danger is there. weed doesn't get a lot of respect for the fact that it is a potent psychedelic/deliriant.
>>30449752
go try to petition the government to make driving while drinking coffee or taking tylenol, see how far that gets you. this isn't about some autistic crystallized logic bullshit, this is about the pragmatic -- and scientifically evidenced -- fact that there are drugs that people take which severely inhibit their senses. trying to equate marijuana to coffee is stoner logic.
>>30449827
So cocaine and methamphetamine are A-OK because they don't "inhibit" you? What about prescription uppers like Adderall? Can they not fuck up your judgement?
>>30449827
>potent psychedelic
maybe if your head is already fucked or you just started smoking
>>30450030
>What about prescription uppers like Adderall? Can they not fuck up your judgement?
DESU Adderall improved my judgment drastically and would seriously consider getting a prescription just to act less dumb on range days
>>30450050
They can still fuck up your judgement. A powerful stimulant, just like caffeine can. Some people act cocky and aggressive on adderall, do you want a stim addict holding a gun too?
>>30450030
you're really attached to this idea of a blanket ban on everything, and that's not what i'm saying. what i'm focusing on is drugs which have been objectively demonstrated to significantly impair your cognitive function on a level which is incompatible with responsible firearm handling. the ironic thing is that for all the stoner butthurt, not a single person has tried to say that habitual weed smoking doesn't significantly fuck with your judgment. why? because it fucking does, and it's easier to try to dance around it and instead try to catch people in logical traps to make your fallacious argument seem more rational.
weed fucks with your perceptions, cognitive function. you might be retarded enough to think it's okay to live in a la-la land full of drugged out neckbeards in rhodesian booty shorts carrying around their dakimakura with ak's slung over their shoulders, but i'm here to tell you that's completely and utterly irrational.
>>30450168
I'm just wondering if you think that people who take prescription medications (painkillers, benzos, uppers) should be ok to handle or carry firearms just because they are legal medications, but not people who use marijuana because it's illegal.
>>30433521
I personally don't give a shit. Just because you smoke weed doesn't mean you shouldn't be entitled to defending yourself.
>>30450218
nobody should carry any firearm or be in possession of one if they are under the influence of many drugs. i'm not okay with zonked out soccer-mom's carrying around 38 specials in their purses any more htan i'm okay with them zipping around absent-mindedly in their vans. it has nothing to do with the legality of marijuana. incidentally, i fully support its legalization.
>>30450219
Who would have thought.
>>30450243
That is a fair argument. However there is a line you have to draw then in saying that people can't use caffeine then while using firearms because it could impair you.
You could also wait to see if a drug user acts irresponsibly with the firearm to judge them, and then judge them accordingly if they do. Instead of assuming they are going to use it wrong and stripping their rights.
I guess it's the SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED vs the authoritarian thing. I see both sides and i'm sure you do too.
>>30450243
So under your interpretation a good portion, if not a majority of the country wouldn't be allowed the God given right to self defense, just because YOU think they're incabable of making critical decisions.
For example
>drugged driving is already illegal
>reckless driving is already illegal
>how effective has that been
Taking away rights is never the answer. You authoritarian prick.
>>30450333
in my eyes it's all about finding the balance between idealism and pragmatism. we already have a system that waits to see if someone acts irresponsibly and then judges them, it's called the criminal justice system. by necessity it's always a step behind the crime, and therein is the issue -- it's notoriously ineffectual at actually preventing bad shit from happening.
what we need is a system that does just a little better at saving people from themselves.
>>30450386
i don't make up the facts, i interpret them. it is an objective fact that people exhibit poorer judgment and cognitive abilities under the influence of many drugs, and his has been tested for again and again and again.
i really don't understand what you're trying to get at. do you honestly think that we'd see LESS driving fatalities if we lifted the restrictions on impaired and reckless driving? you sound like an ideologue. life isn't about pursuing your ivory tower ideations, it's about pragmatic, fact-based evaluations and, all too often, risk management.
>>30433521
i dont smoke marijuana, but anything you do for recreation that is legal should have no bearing on your rights to own guns
seriously, those conceal carry permits that stipulate "not valid in bars" are fucking bullshit and unconstitutional
>>30450466
You're interpretations are pretty outlasnish, considering tens millions of of Americans live every single day with these horrible life altering impairments you talk about.
What I'm getting at is that you have literally 0 idea how to actually deal with a problem, all you're doing is creating more victims by saying PEOPLE ILL ENOUGH FOR NARCOTIC MEDICATIONS CANT DEFEND THEMSELVES.
Wouldn't it make much more sense to maybe I don't know try to stem the tide of this prescription epidemic instead of just prosecuting people trying to live?
>2016
>stripping away essential rights in the name of safety
You're as bad as a gun grabber...
>>30450466
>risk management
>by leaving 50,000,000+ Injured people who already have valuable medications defenseless
That's not how that works...
By your logic every senior citizen isn't allowed to own firearms.
>>30449624
Ban alcohol.
Ban guns while you are at it.
>>30433759
>I don't think you can be addicted to marijuana.
youve never seen old men who have smoked since they were young go without pot for a day. it absolutely has a few minor physical effects if you are forced to go without.
>>30437458
You're a condescending piece of shit. Get fucked tripfaggot.
>>30450684
I smoked at least a gram every day for 6 years in college + grad school. Quit cold turkey 3 months before graduation with no effects.
You know some pussy old men.
>>30450421
>We need a system that does a little better at saving people from themselves.
Positive collective rights authoritarian shitbrain get off my 2nd amendment board REEEE.
>>30449624
Do you drink alcohol, anon?
>>30450684
Alcohol has extreme effects.
As does lack of sleep. Lack of sleep is actually just as, if not more dangerous than being drunk, and especially more dangerous than being high on weed. Every soldier on earth, each one, right now, carries a gun while running on 0 sleep. As has every cop.
So...minor effects of weed, as you admit. Versus major effects which can be aroused from simply having a long night.
>>30448656
Spotted the fud
Settle down old man jankens
We'll stay off your lawn
>>30437458
>kawasaki disease
Lost my shit
>>30449357
Natural plant bad
Big pharma good
>"shoulda seen it bill, i was down at the walmart picking up my zoloft and this guy walked in smellin like the devil's lettuce. I tell you what this country is goin straight to hell *pah ting*
>>30450684
An addict is an addict is addict
If someone wasnt addicted to pot, they'd be addicted to booze.. and normally when they quit one thing they replace it with another. I hate the fucking thinking behind,
>this substance is addictive, and nobody must have it.
>but im fine, i'm an adult and can put in my body what i want
>YOU'RE A JUNKY TO JAIL YOU GO YOU PIECE OF SHIT
Why
>>30453214
Honestly so do cigarettes...
My dads been a CCW holder for 30+ years, and thanks to a life of heavy construction he's been prescribed opiates for 20+ years. I've seen him go days without a fentanyl patch no problem but I've never seen him go a few hours without a cigarette without getting horribly irritated.
>>30437747
>>30437815
The law isn't enforced by any measure. I picked up a gun last sunday with a couple scary 16 round assault mags included. No disassembly or anything. Of course I "properly disposed of them" as any law-abiding citizen would and replaced them with my old 16 round CZ style mags that I've "maintained continuous possession" of since the ban.
The law is so unpopular that most of the states sheriffs got together to sue the governor over it. The governor himself even said they were a total mistake. It's only a matter of time before we're free from it.
>>30445146
The disassembly gets around the transfer measure, but you're still in possession. It's also likely that you could get hit for "manufacturing", even though it's really just re-assembly.
>>30453262
Why is this funny? My son was hospitalized for this shit.
>>30453309
It's nice when you can get addicts addicted to things like puzzles and books, though.
Crackheads will break into your house to take all your shit so they can pawn it and get one more hit.
Drugs are the literally reason why we can't have nice things today. Stop trying to defend them.
>>30453309
Substances can be pysiologically addictive, this is fact, and you would know that if you took high school anatomy.
Also, that's great and all. I personally don't give a shit what you do in your home, but when you decide to spend $2500 a month on meth, run put of money, come over to MY home, and steal the copper out of my AC unit, we're gonna have a fucking problem.
>>30453478
Exactly why you should have the right to shoot that meth junkie even tho you have an adderall prescription.
>>30437458
Shut the fuck up you uncompassionate asshole
>>30453413
I feel like a dick i didnt even know that was a real thing.
>>30453444
Wasted trips on a dumb post. Im not just defending drugs im defending personal freedom. If i want to do a line of coke i should be able to. Just cause some douchebags cant handle their shit, why should i be fucked over.
>make this argument about guns, nobody bats an eye
>>30453478
Im not saying they cant but but im saying if someone is an addict they're gonna sperg out on SOMETHING. It doesnt matter what the substance is, or what activity they replace their addiction with.
>>30437627
>Marijuana
>makes someone less of an asshole
It does the exact opposite of that.
It turns productive, happy people into unmotivated assholes that don't give a fuck about anything BUT marijuana.
>b-but muh medicinal!
Bull. Shit. It's never gone through any of the trials that real medicine goes through. It's a fucking tiger-repelling rock for all you know.
>>30453546
guns are vital for protecting your family. The world is dangerous and guns prevent that danger from getting too close. We have a freedom to own guns for a purpose. Our freedom to own guns comes at the cost of idiot faggots, like most liberals, afraid we're going to go kill them with our guns for no reason. Freedoms are ALL compromises, and therefore you need to know what the best compromise is for all involved.
Recreational drugs are for pieces of Human Shit. They just fuck you up. They fuck you up physically. They fuck you up mentally. They turn you into a fucking douchebag if nothing else, and the world has enough fucking douchebags in it already without your tweaking shit breaking car windows to steal CDs just because you're feeling invincible.
If drugs were such a "personal freedom" and shit, you wouldn't have to destroy Mexico just to get your fucking heroin high, fucking junkies. I *liked* vacationing in Mexico.
>>30453563
Truth is never bait, junkie.
>>30453586
You know if we didnt have the "war on drugs" the cartels wouldnt be worth fucking gazillions of skrilla right?
>I'll take take, the effects of prohibition for 600 alex
>drugs are for pieces of human shit
Your fud is showing.
>>30453546
>I feel like a dick i didnt even know that was a real thing
It's cool man. I thought you were making fun of the disease.
>>30453608
>t-the w-war on d-drugs!!!
Oh please... the only reason why heroin is worth anything is because junkies can't stop fucking up their lives, and everyone around them, to get it.
Holy fuck, do you get ALL your knowledge from pamphlets with leaves on them?
>>30453613
Nah man i thought you were fucking around and for whatever reason the name made me laugh. Im a shit head sometimes.
>>30453624
Let me ask you a question... do you drink at all?
Imagine a warm September afternoon. You glance at your sbr and smile. You then decide to step into your garden and stick your nose in this sweet bud. America.....Fuck Yeah!
>>30453624
>the only reason why heroin is worth anything is because
is because it's illegal
Everything illegal gets a price gouge, the gouge is what makes addicts unable to afford their use. I'm sure there would be no heroin related thefts if heroin was $1/lb. Nobody shoots each other over tomatoes.
>>30453702
Looks neat. I wouldn't want it in my garden though. That stuff smells so bad that people burn it by the gram.
>>30453665
No.
>>30453708
People still shoot each other over Marijuana, and you wouldn't BELIEVE the size of the Marijuana production in the US.
People aren't willing to pay $50 for a tomato because they aren't fucking tomato junkies. They aren't willing to see peoples' heads cut off in Mexico just so they can get a few tomatoes next week.
Drugs are on a whole different level for creating fucking MONSTERS out of normal humans.
>>30453734
>People still shoot each other over Marijuana
because it's expensive as shit.
Here let me put this in perspective for you. I can grow 10 plants in my back yard that yield about 28 grams each every 2-3 months EASILY.
One gram of marijuana retails on the street for $20. One gram of pure silver retails for SIXTY CENTS.
One gram of gold retails for ~$40. Marijuana is about half as expensive as gold and you're acting surprised when people steal it.
If you really wanted to stop drug crime you'd make drugs cost the same as something everyone can afford like tomatoes. The route to cheap drugs is through legalization.
>>30435247
No you didn't.
Assuming you weigh 180lbs it would cost you, at a very cheap $150 per ounce, $432,000 a year, so unless you're Mickey fuckin mouse shut yer gabber.
>>30453713
So you're just one of those straight edge "i dont put any drug into my body" type of people. Thats fine. Its YOUR body. Thats the whole point.
Also the fact that when you make something ILLEGAL the proce goes up.
Look at machine guns. A certain number are available, and now the price is through the god damn roof. Its the dame concept.
People get killed over drugs because there is hige money involved BECAUSE of prohibition.
Look at booze. Aint nobody killing anyone over a 5th of vodka because they can just go to the store and get another one.
>>30453825
It was obviously an exaggeration.
>>30453801
>things are expensive because they're illegal!!!!
This was you, wasn't it? I don't need any economic advice from a fucking retard like you. Nobody does.
More marijuana is produced than tomatoes. More than fucking corn and wheat. So why is it so fucking expensive? BECAUSE FUCKING JUNKIES WILL PAY THAT MUCH HOLY SHIT GIVE ME THAT WEED 420 TOKE ALL DAY EVERY DAY NEED MORE WEED FUCK PASS ANOTHER FUCKING BOWL WHO GIVES A FUCK HOW MUCH JUST GIVE ME MORE FUCKING WEED SHIT MORE WEED NOW!!! FUCK ITS NOT ADDICTIVE MORE WEED, I"LL FUCKING PAY AS MUCH AS HALF THE PRICE OF GOLD FOR MORE FUCKING WEED FUCKING WEED NOW FUCK
fucking junkies... You don't see people getting all desperate and thieving because they've just gone a whole week without a tomato. Drugs create the monsters. A junkie like you can't force that into his burnt-out drug-addled brain for shit, though, so you're still going to shove marijuana into your dickhole and scream "War on drugs!!!!!"
>>30453828
If there were more machine guns on the civilian market than any other gun, they would be cheap as shit.
You ultra-stupid motherfuckers don't realize that part of "Supply and Demand" is "DEMAND"
Bottle rockets were illegal in my state for 20 years. Do you know how much they cost on the street back then? About a fucking dime. Because that's what people were willing to pay for them. And nobody had to get their fucking families chopped up and sent to them in the mail.
Stupid fucking junkies. Blood is on your junkie hands.
>>30453873
>More marijuana is produced than tomatoes. More than fucking corn and wheat
that's absolutely false and I'm gonna need some fucking citations right this instant
It's not expensive because people will pay that much, it's expensive because there's a risk cost associated with every transaction above you. Every single person, from the grower to the wholesaler to the middle man to your drug dealer all make a profit, and a worthwhile one because they're risking jail time.
I can tell you're reeling from the new information because you're making strawmen in all caps.
>>30453900
You have a very vague understanding of the concept of supply and demand, and even then it's focused on an unrestricted market.
>false equivalence bottle rocket comparison
You know what the punishment for having 7 grams of bottle rockets is? A cop laughing in your face for having one bottle rocket. You know what the punishment for having 7 grams of marijuana is? Over a year in prison.
They're not even close to the same thing.
When an autistic /k/unt refers to a marijuana user as a "junkie"
>>30437458
>i like telling others what to do
Hey you should move to CA. Youll fit right in.
>>30453900
Have you ever had a history lesson?
I'll site prohibition once again.
But it doesnt matter. Your mind is made up. Thankfully close minded fucks like you are dying out every day because more and more people are seeing just how stupid some of this shit is.
I bet you're so hardcore on illegal drugs but you'll take any god damn thing the doc gives you cause "legal"
Either that or you're just being a shitty troll. Nobody is this dumb
>>30453873
>HOLY SHIT GIVE ME THAT WEED 420 TOKE ALL DAY EVERY DAY
The devil will own your soul after only one joint
>>30449225
>cones with raw filters
That shit is unamerican.
>>30448717
>>30450721
>>30453527
>>30453986
I don't care about weed. I wish we'd legalize it tomorrow. The government has no authority to regulate what drugs people use.
That said, I'm just tired of the 'it cures everything' canard that gets trotted out on a daily basis.
>>30454064
Everything? Nah probably not. But it sure is helpful for a lot of fucking shit. You cant deny that.
>>30454078
Looks like a 311 poster
>>30453995
>m-muh prohibition!
oh please... another one of these tired arguments.
Good luck citing something that's not speakeasy-central Cook County when talking about prohibition statistics, though.
You know they also made it illegal to hunt bald eagles. Do you know a lot of people paying thousands for a bald eagle egg?
Fucking. Junkie. Shit. You're so fucking retarded it's not even worth it talking to you. You let basic logic bounce off your head like a fucking gungrabber. Making something illegal doesn't, by itself, drive the price up. It only lowers the supply (if the law is effective), and narrows the market. The prices are set by the demand. They prices are set by demand. The prices are set by demand. The prices are set by demand.
There, you fucking junkie, do you get it yet? Did saying it five times somehow make it into your fucking head?
Wow, you can really spot the people who have never even smelled the glorious odor of a fresh bud here. I find it hilarious the the same people champion for freedom in regards to firearms yet reverse their stance when something that's bound to be federally legalized soon prances across their screen.
>>30454088
Did saying it five times make it any more right?
The answer is no.
You're making ridiculously bad comparisons again nobody wants to eat a bald eagle egg, people want to recreationally smoke,
and I never got a reply, you too btfo?
>>30453937
>>30454088
>sperg calling a recreational marijuana user a junkie
Only here
Just because you have a CPL doesn't mean you carry a gun, just because you have a medical card doesn't mean you smoke weed.
4473 11.e asks if you are an illegal user or addict
I understand it's a federal form, but by a manner of technicality a card holder is not an illegal user.
I know card holders who have had police come to the door for a complaint of weed, they show the card and the police go on their way. That doesn't sound illegal to me.
If the government wants to oppress me, they better at least use proper wording.
Last I checked, you didn't have a God-given right to get high. In fact, He implicitly denied it in the parable of Eden.
>>30454152
>>30454152
Last time I checked
Gen. 1:29
"Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it."
>>30454148
>are you an addict?
You are.
If you weren't such a fucking burnt-out junkie, you would know what the word "or" means.
>>30454088
What a fucking moron you just proved my argument.
Also uhhh are you not aware of the crime that went up during prohibition?
Its like you enjoy ignoring factual information
>>30454201
Where does he say to roll them up and smoke them?
Why don't you do us a favor and go eat a bunch of peach pits.
>>30433818
I live in CA. Cops came to my residence in an unrelated issue. Found my loaded shotgun, my rifle, and about 2 grams of weed in a dispensary-labeled container. They left all that shit alone and left me in possession of all of it. I think this is much less of an issue than you guys think.
>>30454216
I don't know what communist country you're from, boy, but where I live you can do whatever you like with your property. You do have a concept of property, don't you?
>>30436078
>>30436012
>leftist state
>better gun and weed laws than you
More right wingers need to move here now
>>30453900
You... you just proved his point for him.
>>30453873
>more weed than corn and tomatoes
Citation time, c'mon grab yer friends, we'll go to anon's bullshit lands with ATF the dog and DEA the human the fun never ends, citation time.
Kek. People dont kill each other over tomatos.
What is a food shortage
>>30454088
I... I just want to kill you and I don't know why.
>>30454152
Last time I checked, God may or may not be real and therefor religiously based political viewpoints are worthless.
>>30453708
>Nobody shoots each other over tomatoes
They would if there was a food shortage ie Zimbabwe. They do over water too. Just sayin
Here are the undeniable facts
>weed is infinitely less harmful than tobacco and alcohol
>it has been scientifically proven to be medically useful
>nearly half the states have legalized it for medicinal purposes
>it is being legalized for recreational purposes at state level every year
>states are collecting huge tax amounts that build roads, schools and a list of other things
>it is not physically addictive
True freedom to me means doing whatever the hell you want as long as it doesn't harm another person. I don't see any downsides to federal legalization.
>>30454313
Oh I completely agree with that, and I realize that's a valid argument to make about a collapsing economy, but we're talking about a properly functioning one.
>>30453801
>you can grow gold and silver
Why are drug addicts so retarded?
>>30454330
Implying it could never ever happen in afirst world country is just crazy
>>30454331
Not him, but I think you're retarded.
>>30454205
Oh yeah man, I'm such a marijuana junkie
Just can't make it through my 10 hour shift without going to the bathroom to shoot up some marijuanas
>Never mind the fact that non-psychoactive cannabis exists
>Never mind the fact that the majority of people with a med card don't smoke but consume cannabis in a medical fashion
People like you are the reason our government thinks a medicinal herb that's been in use since man has recorded history is equally as dangerous as heroin.
Please find the nearest tall bridge and jump off it.
>>30454331
It doesn't say that anywhere in the post.
Sorry I didn't make it explicitly clear for you, I kind of guessed people would be able to fill in the gaps.
Here, at a kindergarten level
You can grow weed in your back yard. The only reason it costs so much is because it's illegal to do so. You think if I could grow gold an ounce of gold in my back yard in a matter of months that gold would cost $40 a gram? Hell no.
>>30442254
>What is prescription dosage?
anything can be deadly if abused. not everyone is going to abuse everythign
>>30453873
>the price of marijuana is artificially inflated to get free money from dumb potheads
what?
like everything else that's bought and sold, there are powerful market incentives to make the price as low as possible.
the reason why the price of weed remains relatively stable within particular regions is because the things that affect that price are stuff like laws, and the effect those have on the availability of weed and ease at which it can be brought to market. weed is very expensive in China but very cheap in North America, for example, because in China the state will cut your head off whereas in North America the worst you'll get is a light prison sentence.
you seem to think that weed is only more expensive than tomatoes because of some vast conspiracy to hoodwink "drug addicts" rather than, you know, the fact that weed and tomatoes are not the same thing. they are subject to different laws, which influences how available they are, which affects the price...
this is all very simple stuff, I'm confused as to why you need to have this explained to you.
>>30454380
>It doesn't say that anywhere in the post.
why are you comparing a plant with a mineral?
you can't grow gold and silver. you're not even comparing apples to oranges here, you're comparing apples to rocks.
>>30440114
this is when you burn the FED govt to the ground
>>30454380
>if I could grow gold an ounce of gold in my back yard
But you can't.
Why do drug addicts argue like this? Just stick to reality.
>>30454051
>filters
>HOLY SHIT GIVE ME THAT WEED 420 TOKE ALL DAY EVERY DAY KIDDO
>>30454330
Doesn't have to be a collapsing economy though. A natural disaster (Katrina) civil unrest (Ferguson-LA 92 riots) and some panicked people will cause that to happen. There's also just the nigger factor, where you have a group of individuals that don't grasp the concept of society and will try to take what you have just because they don't have it.
>>30454420
>420
And of course I have to get that.
>>30454411
Clearly you fuckin government loving mook.
Weed was made illegal by racist, government kooks, strawman as fuck but you are therfore backing their way of thinking by arguing against it.
>>30433521
9/10 times I go shooting high
>>30454400
>>30454411
Oh my god
You're actually retarded.
I have two plants in my back yard.
one tomato vine
and one marijuana plant
I harvest both. The tomatoes are worth $1/lb while the marijuana is worth $1000/lb
They were both about equally easy to grow, why is one worth a thousand times more?
This guy probably supports mag capacity, full auto and 'salt weapon bans. So much fud its hilarious
>>30454441
According to him, its all them drug dealers conspiring together saying hey, lets all charge x amount of money because, hurr they are hella dumb and will pay it.
Completely ignoring that competitive pricing even exists.
>>30454258
>You just proved his point
proof that junkies can't fucking read.
>t-there's n-no way more MJ is grown than other crops!!!
Check with the Dept. of Agriculture.
>>30454441
Because degenerates will pay anything for addicting drugs.
>>30454459
>appeal to authority
nope that's not how this shit works faggot you have the burden of proof because you made the claim
cite
them
now
>>30454458
lol
>>30454462
that was almost uncanny
>>30454458
>one of the top 5 cash crops in *30 different states* is expensive because it's rare and illegal
Get a load of this fucking junkie.
