Hey guys, my friend recently found a Police Colt .38 Special and we started discussing when the Police stopprd using revolvers. We took to google and didn't get many concrete answers, figured we'd ask /k/.
Pic related, it's the Colt.
Also, the only solid answer we got was this picture, and it looks like it's from around the 70's or 80's judging by the quality or coloration, any help is appreciated.
>>30420937
There may still be some rural backwater areas where they are actually still in use, like Idaho, Montana, Alaska,
cops still use revolvers in areas where the department doesn't feel officers need to carry 60+ rounds on them.
it is entirely a capacity issue
>>30420937
Capacity and reload time.
Don't even start with competition shooters and speed loaders for revlovers- that's a very small percentage of people with that skill set.
>>30420937
For big cities it was probably the 1980s
For rural areas it was probably the 1990s and early 2000s
Another side view pic. Also, thanks.
The sheriff in my little rural Tennessee town can frequently be seen sporting what looks like a ruger blackhawk. Probably mostly for show. Deputies all carry glocks.
>>30420937
More rounds to pump out at a faster rate that can help in a jiffy.
>>30420937
Document very related:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCdJGBDQJ8g
>>30420937
The book 'Glock' by Paul M. Barrett actually talks a lot about this. Police forces in many places had been using revolvers for decades.
There were a few widely known shootouts like the 1986 FBI Miami shootout where the police forces were seen as "underarmed" with revolvers going up against criminals with semi-autos.
Glock used this time to very aggressively promote their handguns as the police sidearm of the future and during the late 80s and early 90s managed to make a lot of departments jump from revolvers to Glocks.
When that started happening other companies tried to follow and sell semi-autos to police.
There is no solid answer that is universally true, because departments switch at different rates, but it started in the late 1980s.
>>30421067
^This.
Aside from Miami '86, shootouts with drug dealers in Cali led a lot of those departments to adopt the Beretta 92's and such in the same timeframe. As the gang / drug dealing problems increased, the PD's in the area tended to replace revolvers with semiautos. In the 80's it was typically the Beretta 92 and Glock, into the 90's it was typically .40 S&W Sigs and .40 S&W Glocks, with the occiasional HK USP.
>>30420954
Sorry but you're not going to find some country hick police force armed with revolvers just because it's a rural area. With the kind of deals police forces can get from manufacturers it's long since been a no-brainer to switch over.
>>30421067
Glock also offered an extremely attractive trade-in option. IIRC it cost them money in the short run, but obviously was the right decision in the long-term.
>>30420937
When I was testing for Chicago PD two older officers one a sgt, both had revolvers. I'm guessing they were grandfathered in but still was cool to see
>>30420937
Short answer: Late '80's to early '90's.
Long answer: They never left, they just decreased. I know a guy in the next town over who carries a .38 on duty. Heck, there are still people in the NYPD who carry their revolvers.
>>30420937
Around the 90s mostly police departments started to switch over
Until that point they had never considered autos to be reliable enough for police work, and the revolver was a symbol of US law enforcement
>>30421043
no political BS, we get enough of that
this is a good show that gives you just information
what a great show
>>30420937
another question
why does the "normal" police use SMGs istead of the "much superior" SBR?
>>30421681
Do they?
Look at the major manhunts like Dorner or Boston. Way more 5.56mm ARs than pistol caliber weapons.
An AR-15 is a much more common sight for a car weapon than an SMG.
>>30421067
While the uptick in firepower over the revolvers is better, I still think examples like Miami '86 just shows how fucked you are if you take only handguns and the odd shotgun to a shootout vs. people armed with rifles.
Was it just underestimation or misconception that all guns are equal in a shootout?
It just feels weird that only nowadays do I see/hear/read about more and more cops having a rifle in their patrol car.
>>30421699
in europe it is much more common for "normal" police men to use MP5s instead
>>30421764
You asked why police use SMGs instead of rifles. I answered that it is very common to see police with rifles.
>Was it just underestimation or misconception that all guns are equal in a shootout?
Police had been using older weapons without really updating until the 1980s because shootouts aren't the most common thing for cops. The 1980s was kind of a smack in the face as criminals were finally getting a lot better firepower. Organizations like police are slow to update, but they finally did.
>It just feels weird that only nowadays do I see/hear/read about more and more cops having a rifle in their patrol car.
Police often had shotguns or other weapons in cars. Having ARs as a ubiquitous backup was a logical evolution.
>>30421814
Police might still have SMGs for reasons. Rifles are more common in the US though. The politics and perceptions in Europe are different.
>>30421814
That's politics pure and simple. Some European countries have issues with designated "military calibers". They won't let firearms chambered in 5.56 for instance, be used in civilian organisations.
>>30421681
More and more police have been switching to ARs in most situations when they would have formerly used an SMG
Tactical units where I am for instance appear to have almost completely changed over to ARs compared to only using MP5s ~10 years ago, and most cruisers carry one too
>>30422036
Why did they ever use SMGs? The MP5 and CAR-15 came out around the same time, didn't they?
>>30422142
CAR-15s have been around since almost the creation of the AR-15.
MP-5s and other submachineguns exist because ammunition commonality and fears of 5.56mm overpenetration (which has turned out to be pretty false).
From experience, I can say that the recoil and rise from a 9mm AR or MP5 is less than from a short AR15, but the difference is pretty negligible.
For the most part, the average cop isn't a "gun guy" and will use whatever is given to him. Police are also often prone to believing fuddlore.
This isn't universally true, and we have plenty of dedicated cops, but I have a lot of firsthand contact with cops who have made their ignorance and fuddlore beliefs clear.
>>30421907
How did criminals get more firepower in the first place? Were the cartels and gangs making more money?
>>30422218
Bureaucracies are slow to update. This is the case everywhere.
Police departments basically felt that revolvers were "good enough" and it wasn't top priority to arm themselves super heavily.
Semi autos like the Mini-14 were avaliable, cops just weren't buying them en masse.
Also, it is very important to realize that *perception* plays huge importance. Arguably, the FBI agents in the Miami shootout was an abnormality, but it was high profile enough to make the impression that times were different, and police needed better sidearms.
Similarly, in 1997, the LA bank shootout was another case to be made that police were falling behind in their choices of long arms.
>>30420937
late 90's early 2000's in smaller cities or rural areas, early 90's for metro areas. My father got a Beretta 92fs in the early 90's and when i went to the academy in the early 00's we trained with 1911, .38's and glock .40s to familiarize ourselves with all manners or current police firearms
Actually, what's interesting is that some forces still use them. For example, in DC the police you see at the various Smithsonian Museums as well as the art galleries all carry revolvers. Meanwhile, the actual DC Police use glocks.
>inb4 museum police aren't real police
They actually work together quite closely, to the point of having DC police and museum police stationed inside museums and manning security checkpoints together.
>>30422371
Thinking of applying to DC Metro. I don't think they even allow revolvers for off duty carry, only G26. never heard that about the museum cops that's intresting.
>>30422371
>>30422408
G4S officers actually not cops...Sorry famalam but they get paid about the same
>>30422283
The FBI agents in the 1986 did also have M16s and MP5s are well: they just weren't in the cars that made it to the shootout
>>30420937
I know a retired cop who worked late 70s-mid 00s for a bigger city in Orange County CA. He was issued a 1911 when he first began, switched to a revolver and used that in the 80s. When S&W 5906's were new he was issued or bought one (1989-1990?).
>>30422439
Like I said, perception is very important. When the headline is "FBI agents outgunned by criminal" the details don't really matter. Plus it's an easy way for the people involved to shift blame off of themselves.
I've seen a guard at an IRS office in the early 20 teens carrying a revolver although I didn't pay much attention at the time if they were a federal employee or contractor.
>>30422421
>G4S
Ok now that makes more sense.
>paid about the same
No shit? DC Metro as far as starting salaries isn't too bad
>>30422470
Yeah I find it to be a bit of a funny situation: especially how their immediate response was to say they needed more powerful guns, when it was the least of the issues
>>30421096
Why does 40 s&w seem to be the most popular caliber for police departments instead of something a bit more common at the time like 9mm?
>>30423070
Because Hollowpoint technology hadn't yet matured enough that 9mm was felt to be reliable, but .45 meant either less capacity or ultra-wide guns. Enter the .40, the compromise you felt you needed between capacity and caliber.
>>30420954
I've seen Philly PD with wheelguns before believe it or not. They still have stainless Smith and Wessons from the old days laying around.
>>30422036
I'm friends with a cop in my town, he said it's more commonplace (in my town at least) for cruisers and interceptors to be outfitted with shotguns than ARs.
>>30423510
Yeah it's really agency dependant
Some I know have an AR and a shotgun in every cruiser, in my local one everybody has a shotgun on patrol, and anybody can qualify to carry an AR as well if they want one
>>30423180
Makes sense. Thanks komrade
>>30423641
>tfw my department is so cheap you don't get either
It's actually more annoying that they won't buy us new pepper spray because it's only a little expired.
I think i remember reading the police in Victoria Australia were still using model 10's until a couple of years ago.
>>30425039
I've seen modern photos of some Aussie police still using them
There are a couple of older police officers in the NYC police department who still carry their old SW revolvers. Also some sheriffs I saw also had revolvers despite not looking that old.
Revolvers are still used, but are not standard issue or common anymore
>>30420948
This is late 60's/early 70's. That Kodachrome + style and bike.
>>30423070
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCd
The 9mm took a lot of blame for the Miami Dade shootout, and the FBI wanted something bigger that wasn't .45. They tried 10mm at first, but many agents couldn't control them, so they downloaded them to .40 pressure levels, but the guns were still too big, so S&W developed the .40, which had the great advantage of being readily chambered in 9mm pistol frames. Civs and police followed the FBI, and so the round became very popular.
>>30421067
I can't wait to read that. I'm getting it in july
