>Chinese military is 2 generations behind American's.
How accurate is this statement? Haven't they already stolen enough tech from US/Russian to build 5th gen fighter plane, etc...?
How hard is it to catch up to US military when she's spending more than $200 billon on defense?
>>30404655
They will reach parity with the US in the next few years.
>>30404668
Yeah, but that's just not true.
>>30404904
Explain?
>>30404668
Their economy is starting to slow and is likely to go into decline in about a decade, that sort of increase in military spending would not be advisable.
>>30404655
>How accurate is this statement?
Probably accurate if you were to average out their entire military, however their best units and equipment are probably only 1 generation behind at most.
>How hard is it to catch up to US military
You can't. Not without simply investing more time, money, and manpower into technological development, or by playing by completely different rules (ie: asymmetrical).
>How hard is it to refit your military with matured technologies developed by a different country that spends $600 billion on defense per year so that you can keep your force in the same technological ballpark.
Honestly, it takes a little effort. They have to either steal, buy, or reverse-engineer the technologies to develop analogues locally, which does require industry and investment of its own. Even if you want to call the J-20 and J-31 second rate knock-off stealth fighters built with stolen technology (which they may be), you have to admit that building even a second rate stealth fighter is still well beyond what every other country on earth bar the USA is capable of.
Their technology is mostly just copies of the west, so for all the things that are super expensive integrated projects, they are likely far behind
Such as aircrafts or tanks or naval ships
A lot of the important stuff they need just aren't availible to be purchased by china.
>>30404951
You know who's economy is going to start declining & collapsing soon? The west
Without westerners, how can we have an economy?
China's will keep growing, how could it not? They still have a huge population living in an agrarian setting.
>>30405007
>bar the USA
The Russians did it too. Although they're nowhere near the current development rate China is.
>average out their entire military
This is where china fails. A randomly selected american battalion will beat a randomly chosen chinese battalion.
When you pit the best versus the best, China closes the gap to almost nothing. But the layman units are still behind.
Plus, lets look at it like this. America developed stealth planes who knows how long ago. We only discovered about stealth technology 25 years ago when they decided to tell us. They have as many stealth fighters now as we did back then.
When looking at carriers, testbed platform planes, etc. America is miles ahead.
>>30404668
There isn't anyone that believes that, including the Chinese military.
>>30405044
Completely incorrect.
China's economy is one massive bubble in multiple sectors, and you're insane to think they're going to keep growing without a slowdown/recession soon.
Plus, their huge agrarian population isn't a boon, it's a burden and a struggle to deal with.
>>30405044
Nice job having a 7 year old's conception of the Chinese economy.
>>30405044
>You know who's economy is going to start declining & collapsing soon? The west
People have literally been saying this since the 1920s.
Any day now, hey guys?
>>30405606
Well, just off the top of my head, they've been right at least four major times and several more minor times since the 1920's.
You really didn't think that through before you typed it, did you?
>>30404668
In a few years China and Russia will collapse and fragment :)
>>30405771
> recession = collapse
> recovery = non existent
Heil Marx
>>30405069
It's also more complicated than what you are saying.
The Chinese government knows their current population level is unsustainable. China absolutely does not have the resources to support 1.4 billion people, even if it gets tons of imports from abroad.
They are treading a very fine line about keeping the population under control. The current population is unsustainable and need to be reduced to the 800 million mark or so at the most. If they are too aggressive with birth control, the labor force declines too quickly and their economy collapses. Not aggressive enough and the country exhausts all it's resources.
The current agrarian population was what they are propping up the one-child policy with. Simple technology improvements can make farmers much more efficient and free up second/third sons to go do industrial work in the cities, supplementing the declining native urban population.
Once the easy technological advanced have been made, China is going to face much more serious manpower shortages.
>>30404912
Oh, I just did what you did.
One thing a friend brought up to me about the Chinese economy is the "Chinese baby boomer" issue. Its enough of an extra burden for kids to take care of their elderly parents in the US with 2 children average per couple. Imagine 1 guy by himself trying to take care of himself and his 2 parents. Or a couple trying to take care of themselves, and 4 parents and any children they may have (plural because China has reversed their 1 child policy because of looming economic recession). Being an American-born Chinese-heritage man myself, my family members overseas say that China isn't really doing as well as some make it out to be, but its still better than a few decades ago.
>>30405890
>> recession = collapse
>> recovery = non existent
Nope. Just pointing out that major depressions and recessions have happened. The strength of the Western economic models has not been the complete avoidance of major economic catastrophes, but in their resilience and ability to rebalance and recover without complete political collapse and realignment.
This is a characteristic which is notable lacking in the current Chinese system, if the nightmares of high party officials are any indication. By pulling out every possible stop to halt and completely erase any possible significant market correction rather than let it run its course with only prudent mitigation, they dig themselves only deeper and deeper.
>>30405944
>ABC
You too? I knew there were more of us burger Chinamen.
Funny how the PRC likes to pretend we don't exist and rages when we say shit.
>>30405606
>People have literally been saying this since the 1920s.
ok?
Only recently have we seen a rapidly rising average age amount whites. A massive increasing foreign population, and an inevitably decline in total white population.
In 2 decades when the actual number of working whites is half what it is today, how will the GDP not decline?
>>30405990
> rapidly rising average age of English population
> A massively increasing German population
> inevitable decline in total anglo-saxon population
> How will the GDP not decline?
> A massively increasing Italian/Irish population
> inevitable decline in total protestant population
> how will the GDP not decline
> A massively increasing Chinese population
> inevitable decline in total European population
> how will the GDP not decline
etc.
>>30405078
I think he was being sarcastic.
>>30405606
> he doesnt know of the 1929 crash
>>30405872
>Russia already hasnt collasped and fragmented
>>30405050
>When looking at carriers
Good thing that carriers are already outdated and soon to be replaced by neo-dreadnaughts with glider launchers.
>>30406503
Russia is about to collapse "in the next few years" since 1991.
>>30406541
They kind of did. Twice.
Do none of you fuckers read? Or do a rudimentary google before you post? Jesus Christ.
>>30406555
I'm talking post USSR collapse. Apart from that you've had civil war in Chechenya civil wars are not equal to collapsing and fragmenting.
They're not very likely to fall apart. Caucasus will be held tight because of its importance, no matter of costs and the rest? Where to start?
Eastern Syberia and what was once Russian Manchuria was colonised by the Chinese(kind-of) but it didn't have any kind of "reunification" movements. Syberia in general literally doesn't have any tradition to fall on if they wanted to declare independence, Uralic people like Udmurts are either assimilated or pleased with autonomy their republics have(to the point where their independence movements are as relevant as Occitian IM) and the rest feels that they're Russians even if they ethnically aren't. Political disorder - yes, it is going to happen in some time. Mass riots? Possible. Collapse and fragmentation? Nope.
You'll see Cornwall leaving Britain, Catalonia leaving Spain and Bavaria leaving Germany before you'll see anybody successfully seceding from Russian Federation.
>>30406534
And miniaturized cargo container assault boats?
>>30406618
Nah, giant torpedoes breaking and sealing inside of enemy's ship hull and opening so boarding troops can get in.
In this way navies will be able to board troops from above(via gliders) and from below, leaving the defenders helpless.
>>30406611
>Apart from that you've had civil war in Chechenya civil wars are not equal to collapsing and fragmenting.
Russia spent the entirety of the 90's and parts of the 00's in a state of rolling collapse and repeated attempts at or partial fragmentation. Read a book, man. I realize that most of /k/ was still shitting in their shorts in the 90's, but this is just sad.
China's military has no idea how well they will actually perform in real combat.
The US military, ground and air forces anyways, know. Since we are constantly fighting.
>>30406642
>Since we are constantly fighting sandniggers in asymmetrical warfare.
fix'd
The only armies that have relevant fresh combat experience right now are Ukrainians and Russians.
>>30404655
First the pak-fa isnt exactly a succesful stealth plane, and chicom stealth is also untested.
what america and the west 100% BTFOs everyone at besides money is material sciences. I cannot emphasize this enough. There is a reason ruskie planes come with multiple spare engines with about 400 hour lives each, while an f16 engine will last 10000. They just cant match it.
even if we took the entire original engineering team of the f22, took a complete 1000 panel powerpoint of "how to build" guides, and the tooling itself to 1945, the US couldnt build a full f22. It couldnt happen, the underlying tech didnt exist.
China can copy shapes. They can make their own crude copies. But an oragammi plane, however good, isnt the same. They dont know how to RAM like us. They struggle with Rad chips. They struggle to make engines that run like ours. This isnt a money issue, its a time issue, and you can sometimes compensate for it via theft, and sometimes you cant.
i doubt the chinese can achieve global parity. Regional parity? Probably Likely within 20 years. Backyard supremacy? Maybe. Domination? Very unlikely.
>>30406655
still better than China.
who only know island building, oppression Chinese, and dick waving over islands.
>>30406655
>The only armies that have relevant fresh combat experience right now are Ukrainians and Russians.
I love this meme.
>>30406672
monocrystalline turbine blades.
while weaker than turbine blades with a more complex crystalline structure. they expand less and in a more predictable even manner, when heated.
>>30406503
>>30406541
I guess I should've said Russia will collapse again, for the third time.
When was the last time any of China's military actually saw combat?
Or are we going to entirely dismiss combat experience because it doesn't matter much?
>>30404655
Not true. Certain systems, yes, but not across the board.
In terms of aircraft large thrust engine technology, this is absolutely true, but in terms of electronics/radars/C4ISR and UAVs, the PLA did the right thing and adopted the most modern technologies.
Their navy is also not that behind in terms of ship design and subsystems.
>>30407323
1984 Laoshan Border Battle with Vietnam.
They performed a lot better than in '79 that time around, as they finally decided to decently arm and equip their soldiers.
>>30406672
China already achieved superiority over the Japanese and Koreans.
And most of what you wrote is bullshit anyway. The J-20 is stuffed with more advanced electronics than the F-22 and F-35 together.
Side mounted AESA, EODAS, EOTS, GaN AESA (USA still uses GaA) etc. Their RAM painting is also using the latest Jaulmann Absorber design.
In electronics, the Chinese arent behind in any way.
>>30408096
GaN T/R modules.
Not even the US has them deployed on any fighter jet.
>>30408103
EODAS-like optical system.
Allows the J-20 pilot to see around his plane.
>>30408113
Chinese holographic HMDS
>>30405986
>Funny how the PRC likes to pretend we don't exist
What?
>>30404655
http://www.defensetech.org/2011/06/08/chinas-military-tech-20-years-behind-u-s/?mobile=1
He's correct.
>>30408764
>What?
PRC drones seem to think all Han Chinese should love the Party. I said I was an ABC and they got all salty, threatening to execute me in a shooting war. I'm not even in the military, I just own 30 guns.
>>30408096
>And most of what you wrote is bullshit anyway. The J-20 is stuffed with more advanced electronics than the F-22 and F-35 together. Side mounted AESA, EODAS, EOTS, GaN AESA (USA still uses GaA) etc.
Image related.
>Their RAM painting is also using the latest Jaulmann Absorber design.
China still uses painted on RAM coatings?
>In electronics, the Chinese arent behind in any way.
China isn't behind in the context that their aircraft fleet is newer and doesn't have to be retrofit/replaced. China still has a long way to go on material sciences, which is strongly evident in their engines.
>GaN T/R modules.
>Not even the US has them deployed on any fighter jet.
Neither has China.
>>30405986
There's a surprising amount of us here. Though I'm like half Vietnamese so I don't really qualify as much.
>>30404912
if someone just as fast as you starts running 10 seconds before you , even if you run at the same speed , itll take a while to catch up
>>30406672
>what america and the west 100% BTFOs everyone at besides money is material sciences. I cannot emphasize this enough.
WOW, trying this hard to appear smarter than thou.
The Japanese were ahead in WW2 with the 7075 aluminum alloy for their Zero fighters.
That didn't mean "The West" couldn't have copied the recipe.
"Material Science" is just as easy to "steal" as anything else.
Trying way too hard burgerfag.
>>30405890
>>30405890
>Central planning
Not even once. It's pretty cool though, seeing China as the world's only genuine technocracy, what else could you do they're putting all of their money on one pony.
>>30405980
He said exactly that.
>>30404668
I really doubt it unless they steal a lot of technology, which is what they do, but they would always be behind in development.
>>30404655
The Chinese military is an illusion besides their infantry. They would lose a naval war against Japan, not even including American aid.
>>30410808
You're an armed American, that's what counts. Remember the roof Koreans & the 442nd.
I'm reminded of Heinlein's The Sixth Column. It's where a Red Dawn/Homefront scenario happens around 2050 and most Asian burgers are holocausted ASAP because the invading grunts might get doubts upon seeing Chinatown.
>>30412171
>The Japanese were ahead in WW2 with the 7075 aluminum alloy for their Zero fighters.
Except Zeros came about in 1939, and Sumitomo didn't invent 7075 aluminum until 1943.
If you're going to try to "appear smarter than thou" you should at least get the facts straight.
And now we enter the damage control phase.
>>30412769
Central Planning got them into this population mess, and they believe central planning will get them out.
Mao encouraged "hero mothers to have more children" during the 50s and 60's. He believed that an extremely large population will let China survive a nuclear war.
> “I’m not afraid of nuclear war. There are 2.7 billion people in the world; it doesn’t matter if some are killed. China has a population of 600 million; even if half of them are killed, there are still 300 million people left. I’m not afraid of anyone.”
Needless to say he was retardedly wrong. During a disarmament talk, a US major showed his Chinese counterpart how he could take out 95% of China's population with 5% of the US nuclear arsenal at the time.
>>30412821
>They would lose a naval war against Japan, not even including American aid
I'm not in the China stronk camp, but I doubt this, sure an invasion would fail but in a battle they have a pretty definite advantage.
>>30412769
>>30413170
As an addendum, if you want to see a true population shitshow, look at india in the nest 20-30 years. They are set to surpass China in 5 years, with less resources and no population control.
India is projected to bloom to 1.6 trillion by 2050. If you think India is covered in shit now, just wait.
>>30413170
Wow that quote, and then what you wrote after. I'm in awe, like right now I'm having a genuine panic attack attempting to process the inhuman levels of stupidity needed to think this. Holyshit like literally the slightest amount of knowledge about the subject would be enough to dispell this idea instantly, and they are now facing a massive population crisis because of this and the only solution they can devise is more of this shit.
Anon what you wrote made physically ill. Central planning NOT EVEN ONCE.
>>30413226
India is superpower
It looks like a global economic depression will happen, because the fact that more people live in cities than outside of them is fucking nuts.
The more people there are, the more resources are needed to prop up that populations, thus technology, resources and infrastructure is constantly racing to keep up with these human support systems.
There must be more, always MORE, MORE MORE. We need more taxpayers and workers, thus we need more babies, we must work everyone more hours to keep productivity up, but then nobody wants to have babies because of money worries and work load, so we must import people from third world. But then they need social services because life is good comparatively for them in the 1st world, so they have lots of 2nd gen babies. That means we need more taxes from the people who do work, that lowers the middle class so money has to come from the big businesses who have more and more of the money in order to support the welfare and the countries tax burden.
All while the midwests water table is drying up, everything is getting hotter. The food burden is getting so ridiculous we have to raise cattle in factory farms and cut down the Brazilian rain forests to grow the feed for cattle, and subsidize the Midwest corn production in the doomed midwest, and that also puts so much sugar from corn syrup into our diets we are all getting fat and diabetic and will crash our healthcare, and thus will require more money, that means more production that means more taxes, and thus more people.
You get the picture.
>>30404655
Doesn't China still issue kevlar flack vests with no plates, steel pot helmets, and no radios at the squad level?
>>30404655
Lanchesters Square Law states that even with our superior level of military technology, we would lose a total war because of our lack of soldiers.
>>30413300
Central planning works fine as long as it ain't commies doing it
>>30413198
In a battle that will never happen, because all they have is a horde of infantry.
>>30413140
>Except Zeros came about in 1939, and Sumitomo didn't invent 7075 aluminum until 1943.
This guy is smart fo sho!.
Whodathunk the Japs stopped making Zeros the day the good stuff came out?
Protip: try to understand the concept instead of parroting wikipedia verbatim.
>>30406655
In 1991 the US easily defeated the 8th largest military in the world, in 2003 they did it again. "Asymmetrical warfare" still consists of combined arms tactics of which the US is proven and the Chinese aren't (a platoon commander in the US can call in an airstrike, the same can not be said of the Chinese military).
>>30404655
china fails due to lack of understanding of war infrastructure
let alone watching the gulf wars they were blown away how fast america can advance across a country and supply troops
>>30414478
>Whodathunk the Japs stopped making Zeros the day the good stuff came out?
http://urlscribe.biz/the-long-history-of-7075-aluminum/
>>30414131
Lanchesters Square Law does not account for technological progress.
>>30405771
>Well, just off the top of my head, they've been right at least four major times and several more minor times since the 1920's.
And yet the machine still churns onwards, while Communism is nothing more than a dream of nostalgic, starry-eyed morons and third world dictators.
China has no force projection. The fact that people have to compare China's domestic power vs USA extensive power should tell you how insanely strong USA is.
>>30404668
>>30415058
That's because its political aims don't require it to have it.
>>30414874
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_A6M_Zero
Sumitomo had some Extra Super Duralumin (ESD) from 1936.
Again, the point is that "muh material science" is not an american exclusive playground..anybody can play.
>>30415138
>Duralumin
>>30414478
>Protip: try to understand the concept instead of parroting wikipedia verbatim.
Um, that wasn't a verbatim quote. Why don't you double down on your damage control efforts and call me a faggot? Or maybe suggest I'm autistic. In the meantime, look up the meaning of the term verbatim so next time you can use it properly.
>>30415138
>Again, the point is that "muh material science" is not an american exclusive playground..anybody can play.
Absolutely. The obstacle that China keeps running up against is quality control. That's one of the key factors of materials science. Keeping QC at acceptable levels, while producing useable quantities of whatever material is where the magic happens.
>>30408096
>>30406634
>>30406655
>>30406229
>>30405990
>>30405044
Is there a People's Liberation Army Internet Defense Force now?
>>30415138
No one says its American exclusive, that does not change that China is currently behind and not catching up.
>>30413226
The problem with India is that they follow "Brazillian model"(or Brazil follows "Indian model") of outsourcing rather than Asian model of outsourcing.
Back in the times when Japan was said to become the #1 economy in the world, Japanese did exactly the same what Chinese do right now - produced everything west wanted to make while making their copies via corporate espionage and reverse engineering. Copyright and patent violations were ignored if Japanese committed them and as such the country has quickly "created" a new class of engineers who learned by copying and turned the country into technological giant. Same happened in Korea decade later and the same is happening in China right now.
India doesn't have this. If you are smart guy living in India you're more likely to move to the US or UK and work there than you are to copy western stuff produced in your country for pennies. The country doesn't have as protectionist policy regarding patent/copyright violations as East Asian countries had, they manufacture but don't copy and they're suffering from brain drain.
And thus you end up with gigantic population and GDP but their armament industry will either not exist at all and they will all buy Russian/NATO/Chinese equipment or they will spew "successes" like Arjun or Insas over and over again, because they "produce but don't make" things.
>>30414508
>In 1991 the US easily defeated the 8th largest military in the world
Yet failed to destroy Republican Guard and take Baghdad.
>>30417077
I suspect there really is, everytime one of these threads pop up, you get an ass-load of Chicom defenders writing in funny sentences. This has been going on for years
>>30417188
Are you stupid, the mission was to get Iraq out of Kuwait, not conquer the country
>>30417248
That was the mission after they failed to conquer the country. As in - damage control.
>>30417261
never go full retard
>>30417261
>>30404655
It's not accurate. The Chinese have concentrated their R&D on other things than the US. That doesn't mean that they are necessarily behind.
For instance, China doesn't have a supersonic stealth bomber with range like the B-2.
China doesn't have an armada of state of the art aircraft carriers and warships.
But China does have state of the art mobile ICBMs (something the US has not developed), and new generations of highly lethal cruise missiles that could render said aircraft carriers highly vulnerable.
It is also well known that Chinese hackers DID steal information on US aircraft and they have used this for the development of their new generation of stealth fighters (J-20 and J-31). This on its own could have contributed to narrow the technology gap in stealth flight considerably.
Considering the trends of 21st century warfare, it actually makes much more sense to spend more money and time developing new, highly sophisticated military drones, rather than piloted aircraft. This is something the Chinese are doing.
Warfare is not mathematics.
The US has 50 years head start?
The US spends 10 times more on the military than the Chinese?
Whatever. Those are not the factors that determine who wins wars. In fact, the US hasn't won a proper war since WW2, precisely because it has never been willing to use the full brunt of its force against its enemy. The US fights all its wars with one hand behind its back.
these are lies there right here with us and we are falling behind fast.
>>30415129
>That's because its political aims don't require it to have it.
Please. What do you call their designs on Africa? What do you call their designs on the 7 dash line? What do you call their designs on Taiwan?
China desperately wants an expeditionary force.
>>30417674
>In fact, the US hasn't won a proper war since WW2
By this standard no one has won a proper war since WW2.
>>30417674
>the US hasn't won a proper war since WW2
US has not had a "proper" war since WWII, but it has done a fuckload more "police actions" than china has, and with more success.
China is still trying to get a fully mechanized force. Its safe to say that, overall, they are a good 2 gens behind.
>>30417674
>But China does have state of the art mobile ICBMs (something the US has not developed)
Ohio SSBN says hi.
>>30417759
The Chinese also possess submarines armed with nuclear missiles.
>>30417775
But not state of the art. The brand new jin class is noiser than a 70s soviet delta III
>>30417793
Unless the Tang class is already commissioned, but you just don't know yet ;)
>>30417802
Judgeing by the already large gap, i sincerely doubt they will achive pairty, it most likely will hop up to just louder than delta IV, based upon progression.
Which would make it a firm genoration behind still.
>>30404668
Good one mate.
PLA bootcamp lasts 1 month, 20-30% is indoctrination except when it's 40%, they have lowered physical requirements twice and still 60% of recruits fail, half of the the price for the average grunt's is his gun, no joint command, is littered with corruption and hasn't been in a war for 30 years.
Might have to take it with a grain of salt, but still, if even half of it it true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGs_dcXt-3k
>>30417909
Hehe, I met a former soldier a couple of years ago. He seemed somewhat blasé about it all. They get paid fuck all, like a few thousand RMB/year ($500-1000/year).
That said there have been military operations on going over the last few years in Xinjinag province. It's mostly elite forces being used, and the government keeps a tight lid on information about the operations, but it is happening.
>Peoples Liberation Army doesn't have joint command. Or wants to have since its boss would rival Party in power
>USA army spends 17500 dorrar per soldier. PLA spends 1500 dorrar
>military training dedicates 30% of time to practicing goose stepping, singing patriotic songs and studying Marxist Leninist tought.
>no wartime experience
>physical standards had to be lowered number of times due to deterioation of physical state of recruits
>pilots spend 10 hours a month in cockpit
>their missiles can't reach mainland USA
>havent built a single nuclear submarine
>15 years behind in tech on average, depend on stealing US tech and Russia supplying them
>>30417077
>>30417228
You should always acknowledge enemy's power, and never underestimate them.
China is advancing real quick, and the J-20 looks like it will be far superior than Pak-fa or F-35.
But I'm not so sure about those canards
>>30405606
Civilizations have lifespans, and the end of the West's is coming into view.
>>30418228
But, their infiltration of sleeper agents on US soil far exceeds that of counter-infiltration.
>>30408096
All those sensors are useless without software to present the data in an orderly fashion to the pilot.
One reason for the F-35's delays are the millions of lines of code to tie all the related sensor shit together so the pilot does not choke on info.
>>30405050
>When you pit the best versus the best, China closes the gap to almost nothing. But the layman units are still behind.
Even then, China is behind in experience.
They basically have none.
>>30405606
All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.
>>30418534
DELET THIS
>>30404668
china is america's slave class. without america china is bangledesh.
>>30405034
>copies
Here it is, your fucking average k poster who can't get a GED musing about complex engineering projects.
>>30418228
>no joint command
What? What do you think the military regions are?
>>30418228
Troll
Or really retarded.
>>30405050
>We only discovered about stealth technology 25 years ago when they decided to tell us
We would have known anyway when the Serbs shot one down.
>>30418721
>Here it is, your fucking average fifty center who can't get a Foxconn job musing about complex engineering projects
>>30418332
programming isn't hard when you don't have thousands of women & non-whites hired for diversity reasons
>>30404655
The USA is China's 2nd largest trading partner, a toss up between the USA and EU depending on who has the better economy in a given year. We're not going to war any time soon.
While China has a potential military capacity exceeding the USA, without some type of unifying event you'll never see it. That combined with the strange quasi-capitalist communism they're running with allows all kinds of corruption, even with the reforms.
China's biggest issue is not turning into a desert between now and transitioning from a manufacturing economy and a service economy, frankly.
>>30405034
Chinese invented the gun. They're not even trying. They don't want a hot war with anyone. They want to maybe steal an island from the Japanseses and maybe the Russians, Maybe steal a little land from bordering states, not lose Hong Kong or Macau, etc. If they want a war, they'll just make us dependent upon them for manufactured goods, and then curbstomp us with economics.
>>30421368
>They're not even trying
Except they are.
>>30421402
They are keeping the young men who are too stupid to do engineering or finance busy. That's the purpose of their army. That and frightening people like you. It's a jobs program.
>>30421430
A jobs program doesn't require building force projection assets as fast as you can.
>>30421870
Like what? Their one (1) secondhand aircraft carrier?
>>30421979
Or the two under construction.
>>30417775
Yet they haven't managed to actually make a single nuclear deterrence patrol with them. What does that tell us?
>>30417674
>The US fights all its wars with one hand behind its back.
I'm sorry, are you suggesting that the current Chinese population has anything in common with the Chinese population of the Korean War? That they'll all fight today with the same mix of long experience, ideological fervor, willingness to endure deep hardship and willingness to absorb very heavy casualties?
Because that's just silly.
>>30422516
China has more manufacturing capacity than anyone else, building two carriers is not "as fast as they can".
>>30406229
>>30417077
Dude, fucking 60minutes did a special on the Chinese shill army. Even normies know this where have you been
>>30418322
99% ethnic Chinese Americans btw. It's a real problem.
The ww2 Jap camps were justified.
>>30422684
>China has more manufacturing capacity than anyone els
Orly?
>>30423068
Yeah.
>>30422773
Blacks are shrinking as a % of the population in America.
>considerthefollowing.jpg
>>30417674
What war has China won?
TLDR thread, but China will definitely catch up within 15 years and dominate most of the Pacific. Luckily, they will be a liberal empire similar to the USA/Britain. We have nothing to worry about as long as we dont poke the tiger.
>>30425384
>TLDR thread, but China will definitely catch up within 15 years
Lol, no.
The tonnage difference alone is simply to vast, not to meantion the experience gap.
>>30427637
>The tonnage difference alone is simply to vast, not to meantion the experience gap.
This. Expecting China to double their entire commissioned tonnage in 15 years is a little more than optimistic. The USN sits at around 3 million tons total displacement, not counting the MSC and other fringe assets. The PLAN is at a little over a million.
The USN's Burkes and Ticos alone represent over 80% of the displaced tonnage of the entire PLAN.
>>30427728
Have you not seen how fast the chinese GDP has been increasing?
And their military spending?
I would be astonished if they DIDN'T double their tonnage over the next 15 years
>>30423148
They are not
Whites are though, rapidly.
Used to be 90%.
Now we're below 60%.
>>30427728
i thought PLAN was dumping out new ships by the week?
>>30427911
>I would be astonished if they DIDN'T double their tonnage over the next 15 years
China has around 210,000 tons of surface ship under construction currently, two thirds of which are their carriers.
>Used to be 90%.
>Now we're below 60%.
Whites have never been 90% of the population, and are currently above 60%. Which doesn't even address the fact that there are, at minimum, twice as many whites in the US as any other country.
>>30427911
>I would be astonished if they DIDN'T double their tonnage over the next 15 years
They can double it but so can the USN.
Remember that one power going into arms race triggers the other ones to react. The US may grow longer but the lead they have right now keep them safe for longer than 15 years, far longer.
>>30428078
>>30428096
Lets do some math adding up surface combatants and tonnage under construction, bitches love math.
>USN
2 Ford -CVN, 200000 tons
1 America -LHA, 45000 tons
3 Zumwalt -DDG, 45000 tons
7 Arleigh Burke -DDG, 63000 tons
6 Independence -LCS, 21000 tons
6 Freedom -LCS, 21000 tons
>395,000 tons
>PLAN
1 Type 001A -CV, 67500 tons (assuming the same tonnage as the Liaoning)
1 Type 055 -DDG, 12000 tons
6 Type 052D -DDG, 45000 tons
2 Type 054A -FFG, 8000 tons
7 Type 056 -FS, 10000 tons
>142,500 tons
>>30428201
People like to talk up chinese shipbulding, then forget that america is building/commissioning 7 fucking burkes and 2 fucking fords simultaneously, along with a smattering of smaller combatants.
God forbid they turn the San Antonio class into a fucking arsenal ship like they have been mulling over.
288 VLS on a surface combatant. Wew lad.
>>30427993
The PLAN has a fuckton of dead weight.
Over 100 one gun "sub chasers" damn near useless missle boats/gunboats, and a whole lot of damn near useless frigates, along with a fuckton of damn near useless subs.
Keep in mind im talking about useless, as in fighting the usn.
I wish I had some of their Equipment Pouches. I can only find BDU's and Chest Rigs but no molle.
>>30404655
>How accurate is this statement? Haven't they already stolen enough tech from US/Russian to build 5th gen fighter plane, etc...?
There's a huge difference between stealing tech and building a cadre of combat veterans who understand and can teach the principles of using that tech.
The US has the tech, and the veteran cadre. China does not. They're *at least* two generations behind the US, no matter how much they steal, because the US has been developing doctrine and growing its cadre nonstop since 1941, and China really hasn't.
>>30413300
mao also encouraged that every house become its own steel mill and that everything from fencing, kitchen tools and farming equipment be turned into high quality steel to meet steep production quotas.
The result was billions of tons of useless pig iron because the quality of the material was shit and the people operating these backyard forges were literal peasants. Meanwhile, this was pulling the peasants off the land during one of the worst famines in history, and while sure, he didn't cause it, Mao's policies helped to ensure the deaths of millions of his own people.
The great leap forward was a hell of a time.
>>30409539
What?
The Commies hate the guts of the 99% Han ROC.
>>30417909
You haven't been paying attention to the PLA's modernization.
I can tell based upon your claim that there is no joint command.
>>30428201
>3 Zumwalt -DDG, 45000 tons
>7 Arleigh Burke -DDG, 63000 tons
>6 Independence -LCS, 21000 tons
>6 Freedom -LCS, 21000 tons
This is completely wrong.
>>30428262
>Over 100 one gun "sub chasers" damn near useless missle boats/gunboats, and a whole lot of damn near useless frigates, along with a fuckton of damn near useless subs.
These "useless" ships could fuck over all the neighbors in the region.
>Keep in mind im talking about useless, as in fighting the usn.
Okay. Then more than half of the USN is useless since it can't get deployed to East Asia within a few months.
>>30418315
>Countries have lifespans
I assume you're basing this off of history right? Not taking into account the MASSIVE changes in how politics even work within the last 100 years. How the world is becoming more and more interconnected.
>>30427911
Have you seen how big of a market China has in the EU? Are you not aware of what Brexit is doing to that market?
China's economy is very active, but not robust. Expect to see a sharp downturn before the end of the year. They'll finish any hulls currently on the ways, but won't lay any new keels.
>>30404655
doesn't matter
India will crush them all until 2030
>>30404668
t. Wang
>>30430137
How so?
>>30430157
>Then more than half of the USN is useless since it can't get deployed to East Asia within a few months.
Wut.
>>30404655
Chinese are untested and their true capability is unknown. If GLA attacked them in Beijing lats year on the parade, we would know by now what the Chinese are capable of, but thankfully none of that happened.
Anyway, Chinese have numbers. If by some magic they can move those large numbers of troops, vehicles, supplies and equipment, their numbers would be their main advantage. A very good advantage, if supplied properly.
The Chinese army needs to get battle hardened somehow to be a real standing army.
Right now its just a cannon fodder factory until some of that cannon fodder becomes a military unit.
China needs veterans. For instance, if some sandniggers got to be their first target, or africans, there would be plenty of opportunity for China to use and exalt its military. Not to mention turning large parts of continents into Chinese only areas. Would be very interesting.
>>30417674
You were reasonable and had me following until the last sentence. What a waste of an argument.
>>30422588
>hat they'll all fight today with the same mix of long experience, ideological fervor, willingness to endure deep hardship and willingness to absorb very heavy casualties?
Honestly? Probably. Nationalism is one hell of a drug.
Part of the PLA "culture" is unflinching discipline a la the IJA so you could expect some retardation when it comes to surrendering and brutality.
>>30431772
Based upon internal reports, the chinese are soft as hell though.
>>30430137
>This is completely wrong.
Really?
>3 Zumwalt -DDG, 45000 tons
Zumwalt is undergoing sea trials, due for commission on 10/15/16.
Monsoor is fitting out, having been launched just 10 days ago.
Deep procurement is already begun on the Johnson, contracts awarded, money disbursed as of Jan 4. Module construction already begun:
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2016/01/04/Raytheon-wins-255-million-contract-for-USS-Lyndon-B-Johnson/1621451925186/
>7 Arleigh Burke -DDG, 63000 tons
Finn launched 3/28/15, due for delivery by year end.
Johnson launched 12/12/15, due for delivery by April 2017.
Peralta launched 11/1/15, due for delivery by year end.
Hudner, Ignatius, Inouye, and Black all have their keels laid with scheduled deliveries 17-early 19.
>6 Independence -LCS, 21000 tons
Montgomery, Giffords and Omaha all launched and fitting out.
Manchester and Tulsa keel laid.
Charleston modules under construction, keel laying any day.
>6 Freedom -LCS, 21000 tons
Detroit, Little Rock and Sioux City all launched and fitting out.
Wichita and Billings keel laid.
Indianapolis has modules under construction, keel laying any day.
>>30431799
The old guard is too hardcore, more like. Part of the story is that older Chinese generals think of the one-child-policy generation as soft compared to them, which may very well be true. But comparatively, these dudes are going to be tougher than their Western counterparts. Let's not even bring the Japanese or Taiwanese into this, they're an absolute shamefur dispray.
As a nation improves, you should probably give your troops better living standards to match. Chinese soldiers are forbidden or at least heavily discouraged from making friends or relationships outside of the military. It's a stupid system and discourages more educated people from joining, I'd suspect. But whatever, it's good for us.
>>30431772
>Honestly? Probably. Nationalism is one hell of a drug.
No. Not even close. They have moved from a society that had been at war for two decades, made up of hardened, rural soldiers just before Korea to a society of urbanized middle class factory workers who keep the Committee up at night terrified of what would happen if they all lost their newfound financial independence and more comfortable lifestyles.
You did not see labor demonstrations and political incompetence/corruption demonstrations in 1949.
I'm not saying they're "softer" than the run of the mill US 18 year old. But there isn't anywhere near the gap you imply.
>>30410915
>even if you run at the same speed , itll take a while to catch up
um, two objects traveling at the same speed but departing at different times or distances will never "catch up"
>>30431855
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Autism.
>>30431841
>But comparatively, these dudes are going to be tougher than their Western counterparts.
You would be surpised.
http://thediplomat.com/2014/01/chinas-deceptively-weak-and-dangerous-military/
>At one military exercise in the summer of 2012, a strategic PLA unit, stressed out by the hard work of handling warheads in an underground bunker complex, actually had to take time out of a 15-day wartime simulation for movie nights and karaoke parties. In fact, by day nine of the exercise, a “cultural performance troupe” (common PLA euphemism for song-and-dance girls) had to be brought into the otherwise sealed facility to entertain the homesick soldiers.
Nine days before failure. Nine.
>>30431852
True, I did exaggerate. But these modern day PRC kids are pumped up with more propaganda than 1951 Chinese soldiers (many of whom were former KMT soldiers pressed into service as "volunteers").
>>30431895
I don't think we would use the USAF as a metric for how tough Americans are, it's not exactly fair to judge the PLA based on their physically/mentally weakest component.
All I'm saying is that we shouldn't be so quick to judge Chinese capacity for warfare. It's a common mistake America makes and I just want people to wake the fuck up and stop looking for only negatives, but what positives they have so we can properly assess their capabilities. rather than be surprised 30 years down the line.
>>30431933
>I don't think we would use the USAF as a metric for how tough Americans are
I would expect the USAF to work 9 days without needing state funded whores.
>>30431933
>their physically/mentally weakest component.
Anon. Are you suggesting that China's strategic nuclear manpower is their mentally weakest? Because that seems like really, really stupid planning.
>>30431933
>All I'm saying is that we shouldn't be so quick to judge Chinese capacity for warfare. It's a common mistake America makes and I just want people to wake the fuck up and stop looking for only negatives, but what positives they have so we can properly assess their capabilities. rather than be surprised 30 years down the line.
I don't think anyone serious in America is taking them lightly. The US spent more on Procurement/Aqcuisitions in 2015 (154B) than China spent in total on defense. Even after you adjust for cost of production/R&D, the US is spending almost double their entire defense budget on procurement and R&D. That's before we compare the actual quality of the platforms being acquired across the board.
>>30431730
Well, it's true. Maybe it should be left out of this argument, but it is true. People have made the argument that the US's nuclear deterrence is more awesome than any other world power, yet after Japan they have never (and most likely will never) used nuclear power against an enemy. Did the US nuke Afghanistan or Pakistan or Saudi Arabia after 9/11? Of course not. So America's most significant weapon is one we know it will never use. In that case, who cares about Ohio-class SSBNs as some people have said?
>>30432008
whores are important; you can't just bring in any fuck boi off the streets. They aren't Marines afterall
>>30428201
You forgot the subs and other amphibious assets - which makes it even worse.
>USN
6 Virginia class SSNs - 46800 tons
3 San Antonio class LPDs - 75900 tons
2 Spearhead class JHSVs - 3030 tons
>125,730 tons
>520,730 total tons building
>PLAN
1 Type 071 - 25000 tons
2 Type 093 SSNs - 14000 tons
1 Type 095 - 7000 (ish) tons
1-2 Type 094 - call it 22,000 tons to be generous
5 Type 039 SSs - 18000
Possibly a couple Type 072As, but no idea how many (4800 tons apiece).
>86,000 tons
>228,500 total tons building
Anyone else notice how Vatniks and Chicoms scatter like roaches when someone like
>>30428201
>>30431819
>>30431895
>>30432425
starts throwing out actual numbers and facts? Makes me kek every time.
They're like the humans in "Independence Day 2".
They can kinda reverse-engineer our tech, but they can't compete with it ultimately.
>>30418315
And yet China itseld has yet to kick the bucket, even if you consider Taiwan to be "Old" China, it's been in continued existence for 4000 years at least.
