Are there any pistol carbines that would be useful in actual combat?
What practical role do pistol carbines fill, anyway, besides just being fun to shoot?
>>30378077
A lot of PDWs are pistol caliber.
>>30378077
- stoping power
+weight of ammo and gun
+recoil
+muzleflash
Good if you dont expect your enemys to have some body armore, excelent if you need to shoot in smal rooms
>>30378077
>They will never make one of these in 10mm or 5.7mm
>>30378077
Unless you're a cop in a location where you have a really low risk of being in a gunfight, I'd say no. Modern militaries pretty much all issue some kind of personal armor that stops conventional handgun ammo. A normal carbine will be better for everyone that a PCC would potentially be issued to. And if someone really can't have a carbine (which is bullshit most of the time, US tankers and other vehicle crews have been fine with the M4 for quite some time now), newer PDWs will most likely be used. I know cops in Europe have been using MP7 and P90 weapons as replacements for aging MP5-type weapons (there are some cool pictures of Bongistan cops with semi-auto MP7A1 variants).
"Useful" is a relative term. A lot of those Syrian militias have been seen using glock carbine kits, but they would ultimately be better off using an AK.
Here you go bro
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=SMG
>>30378112
Mechtech. Get yourself a glock 20 and a Mechtech CCU.
>>30378077
P90.
The main problem with pistol carbines is magazine capacity.
The average pistol mag--ones that these guns can typically accept, anyway--carries around 10 rounds, plus or minus a few. Even most double-stack magazines carry fewer than 20 rounds. Most automatic or semi-auto rifles that see a lot of use on battlefields these days carry at least 30 rounds in their magazines.
Unless you were equipped with drum magazines, you would be forced to reload 2-3 times more often than a soldier with a rifle, and even with extended mags you would still be fighting with ammo that would be less accurate at long range and less effective against body armor.
I could possibly see police or private security using them as patrol rifles, but a soldier fighting heavily-armed opponents on a regular basis would be royally fucked.
>>30378106
that's because "pdw" has become a marketing term for "smg". NATO used the phrased personal defense weapon so that they didn't potentially restrict what weapons were presented, what if some company pulled out some magic electrical weapon or laser that fit the bill, they didn't want to exclude anything. Now any company slaps the term on their somewhat small gun
>>30378108
9mm and 5.56mm weigh roughly the same per round.
>>30378323
P90.
>>30378137
Pics? Source?
>>30378359
>bullpups
What kind of combat? Pistol caliber guns are very small, could be useful for room clearing and people in vehicles
>>30378349
Sure? Never weght them and just assumed it
>>30378323
The very one in OP's picture has a 33 round magazine.
>>30378323
>The main problem with pistol carbines is magazine capacity.
>P90 has 30 & 50 round magazines
>Any 9mm using an XL GLAWK mag has 33 rounds
>Uzi has 20-32 round magazines
>>30378463
>30 round P90 mags
For what purpose?
>>30378391
>I hate compact, intuitive, superiorly balanced firearms with the best barrel length:overall length ratio the firearm world has to offer
Is this you?
The P90 suffers from none of the conventional bullpup problems. Pointing out that it's a bullpup is a compliment, not an insult.
>>30378489
I have no fucking clue, my guess would be that some states or countries get bootyhurt about people having more than 30 rounds.
>>30378108
>>+weight of ammo and gun
like the other guy said, 9 and 5.56 are very similar. And unfortunately most SMGs are straight blowback so they're fairly heavy. There are good exception though - the MP7 has light ammo and the first version (not the A1) was remarkable 2.7lb. Russia's gas-op SR-2 is 3.6lb although it's shooting 9mm
>>30378384
Not that guy, but heres a Kurd with a Roni kit.
>>30378509
>haha you expected us to build a rifle using the traditional layout that the vast majority of people enjoy because of its comfort and ease of use?
>hahaha FUCK YOU welcome to le next generayshun of rifle XDDDDDDD
let me sell you the cbj a sub machine gun that is designed to fire tungsten sabots with the asthetic of the m3 grease gun http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Saab_Bofors_Dynamics_CBJ-MS
>>30378509
sup
>>30378077
I have a sub 2000 and i do like it. It is better than nothing but not a combat gun, more like a novelty backpacking gun..
>>30378759
>Two magazines
Am I looking at this right?
>>30378794
They may or may not be pulling your legs by inserting certain things into certain ports.
>No, not a dick into Long Beach Harbor
>>30378759
>bullets arranged horizontally to the feed
I didn't know that about the P90, sorry for the stupid question but how does that even cycle?
>>30378794
Dem be CLIPAZINES, my friend.
Dan pls
>>30378826
I'm so happy that you're still around, Marisa.
>>30378816
There is a turntable at the back of the magazine.
>>30378846
>>30378816
>>30378860
Have you ever had your P90 jam before?
>>30378873
Never once.
In fact, it is so reliable that I need to devise some way to simulate failures while at the range. Maybe I should make some dummy brass with no powder or primer.
>>30378901
No powder? Won't that be asking for a squib ?
>>30378846
>>30378860
I see, thank you.
>>30379021
>Replaying to a tripfaggot
>>30378420
well you know you just think before you post your assumptions as facts
>>30378826
kill yourself you autistic faggot
>>30378838
>>30378826
nice same fag since noone likes you
>>30378816
The casings drop straight down out of the stock
And yes, it's one of the more confusing guns out there.
>>30379033
Ya know, I still don't know why people are so salty about tripcodes.
>>30379020
No powder + no primer = fake cartridge. It will just not do anything. Like a snap cap.
>>30378077
Depends on what you want. The DoE ordered the AR in 9mm so they could have SMGs that could spray and maintain decent aim, plus since they defend nuke plants they were going to be fighting in small spaces. Sharing ammo between guns is pretty sweet too, even better if they accept the same mag. Of course as far as effective range goes they are outclassed by rifles, but people knew that already. They're pretty great for everyday person usage/hiking. If you're talking about a front line soldier probably not the best option, though it could be worse. They are also pretty great for tankers/support team.
>>30378509
>>30378759
Is that setup using the AR mag as a brass catcher?
>>30378349
And a negligible difference in recoil.
>>30378108
>-stopping power
fuddy fie
>>30378826
Fuck all those loaded mags make me hard
>>30378727
>all guns have to be exactly the same because of familiarity, even when better designs are available
Haha woah like, you serious bro? Is this you bro?
>>30378759
Keep fighting the good fight
>>30378323
> MFW cz p09 has a standard 19 round mag, with plate extendos that make it 24 or 26, IN A FUCKING HANDGUN
>>30379257
Nah its just loose in there for the photo.
Posting the obvious
>>30379314
Better photo http://i.4cdn.org/k/1466685758459.jpg
>>30378901
5.7 snap caps?
>>30378901
>dummy brass
I have this vague memory of p90s being caseless, what was that about? It's obviously not true but was there some variant or something?
>>30378727
Bullpup has been around for at least a century....
>>30379931
G-11
P90 is not caseless
>>30378077
>pistol carbines
wwhat exactly is this supposed to be
>>30379996
>G-11
Aah, that would be it.
>>30380011
It's a VP90 that's all grown up.
From what I understand the country's SWAT and other LEO Dept. are replacing the MP5 with MPX due to reduce cost to maintain. So I guess there are still uses for these types of firearms.
>>30378274
those don't fold
>>30378077
Thought Obama was for gun control?
>>30378826
Is it possible they use the word clips so that later when standard magazines are banned, clips will be included?
>>30379953
Please show me the 1916 bullpup.
>>30380018
>meme11*
>>30380249
How about the 1903?
>>30378077
significantly less lethal
weigh about the same to slightly more
ammo weighs about the same (9mm) to slightly more (40, 45)
recoil is slightly less
muzzle flash is significantly less
overpenetration is significantly greater
body armor is significantly less likely to be defeated
9/40/45 can be suppressed effectively, 5.56/5.8/5.45/7.62x39 can not
So basically they're usually smaller and suppressed. They're cheaper to design and manufacture, and are usually simple straight blowback.
>>30379438
I've seen that done before with an airsoft mag though.
>>30382680
I just verbally said What the Fuck pretty loud in my house
>>30378077
>>30383180 (cont)
pistol caliber carbines are complete dogshit, useful pretty much only when your design necessitates integrating the magazine well into the grip.
Now with 300BLK even suppression isn't a good reason, and I have a sub2k.
Anyone have a Hi Point 9mm threaded and extended? I always try to build the most "wtf r u doin" systems that still work.
>>30378826
i want to build an AR57 pistol, but use the 6" barrel and toss on a suppressor
curse being a low earner
>>30378323
I guess all these 32 round mags I have for my Colt pattern 9mm AR SBR are low capacity?
>FMK-3
>VZ 26
>P90
>UZI
>Thompson
>Calico
>MP 40
>Suomi
>PPSH
I can't think of any that DONT have at least a 30 round standard cap mag
>>30383227
FYI, the AR-57 is garbage with shit tier QC. There was a pretty damning gunnit review, too.
Also, a proprietary upper with a proprietary BCG and a raised height, and they didn't go bufferless? Talk about unimaginative garbage.
I'll probably still buy one because I have a Sparrow, though.
>>30378112
I've seen some videos of Hi Point .40s that have been reamed to take 10mm.
>>30383327
>the AR-57 is garbage
i know, but it just looks so cool
>>30378323
Sten mags
Thompson mags
Grease gun mags
Uzi mags
M10/45 mags
M10/9 mags
M11/9 mags
M11/380 mags
M11-A1 mags
PPS mags
And, of course:
PPD 25s
PPSh 35s
PPS 35s
MP40/MP3008 32s
Owen Gun 33s
Reising 20s
M42 25s
The metric fucktons of "carbines" of the first and second world wars that were either standard or long barrel pistols issued with a stock, like various Lugers, a fuckton of C96 types, Hi Powers, et cetera.
That's not even getting into drums or new guns.
CMR-30 30s
P90 50s
MP7 40s
PP-2000 44s
Do I even need to point out the MP5s 30 round magazine? Pistol caliber carbines that are anything more than a pistol with a stock are retarded, but not as retarded as you.
>>30378077
Yes , but they are full auto and are called sub-machineguns.
Google what a sub-machinegun is.
Thread over.
>>30383860
pretty much that right there
>>30378077
See this list here? >>30383839
Notice how everything but the CMR-30 on this list is full retard?
>>30379230
whats the point of carrying a pdw and a pistol? especially when the use the same ammo?
>>30383976
Different uses and PCCs are usually more accurate. Plus you might set the PCC and walk away. You don't have to carry both, just a nice feature.
>>30378077
The B&T USW
Its a new swissmade gun that seems pretty awesome
I still want a CX4 way more than I want an AR or AK. Might have to get a Hi-Point in the meantime to scratch the sub-gun itch.
>>30378077
Israelis use short 10/22s for crowd control.
>>30387471
read: for selective murder
>>30387478
Yeah, on paper it's for knee-capping rioters, but being the IDF, there might be some "accidental" headshots going on.
>>30387478
Sounds like a good way to control crowds to me.
>>30378077
lower velocity ammo without the kick of a 12gauge slug or a way to run bursts in a short package for corner fights/rappel side of buildings without a AR barrel getting caught on ropes/ledges for the smaller body frame operator
>>30387478
>read: vermin control
FTFY
>>30378077
A pistol round will kill just fine. PCCs would be nice where overpenetration would be a concern.
They're usually smaller and lighter. They would be useful for auxiliaries, and people working in tight areas.
Like any other weapon, they have their uses. They're just not as oper8er as ARs and the like so /k/ thinks they suck.
since pistol cartridge powder burns really fast that means they don't need a very long barrel to reach near their max potential speed. you can have a 5-6" barrel and then use a suppressor and come out with a gun around as long or not that much longer than a rifle caliber carbine. if you're using subsonic rounds it'll also be very, very quiet
>>30387541
>pistol powder
no such thing kthx
>>30387981
It's absolutely a thing. Granted, this was much more important in the black powder days, but you still match the powder to the ammunition you are reloading for best performance.
>>30387516
Well, they have their uses but offer minimal advantages over considerably better weapons.
The only pistol carbine I like is my Winchester '92 in .44 magnum and I freely admit that it's a overpriced toy for assholes that never got tired of playing cowboys.
>>30388005
No, it's not. There are a thousand powder brands, some of which have more surface area and burn faster. There are load tables for some crazy shit.
Furthermore, 300BLK is quieter than 9mm suppressed.
>>30388030
Pistol powder is finer then rifle powder but coarser then priming powder.
>>30388041
priming compound is not usually gunpowder, you're probably thinking of blank powder
>>30388050
It's black powder nomenclature, where the finest powder is used to prime the pan where the sparks or slow-match lights it.
It's archaic as fuck, but still a thing.
>>30378077
In my keyboard commando opinion, pistol caliber carbines are, for the most part, just fun to shoot. Look at SWAT teams; they're switching from sub machine-guns to rifle carbines for a reason.
I suppose one advantage would be that magazines could be shared between certain pistol carbines and pistols (like a mechtech and a Glock, or a Cx4 and a Px4), with the pistol as a backup if the carbine goes down for whatever reason.
>>30388071
I WILL SUCK YOUR COCK
![questionmark[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/MYHarEB.jpg "questionmark[1].png")
>>30378846
>trying to load a p90 for the first time
>>30378077
>What practical role do pistol carbines fill
Confidence.
>>30378077
is shoots bullets at high rates of speed
its effective, trust logic
>>30387981
Are you retarded?
>tfw you will never get to fondle a pp2000
>>30378727
There is literally nothing wrong with the P90 pattern of bullpup and is actually expected to be what the Military will switch to once the LSAT project is finished making a 6.5 grendel version because the drafted prototype rounds are identical in length to 5.7 and all it'd take is a bit of redesign on FN's part doing steel reinforcement on certain parts, hell they could probably use the 556 test designs they had back when the LSAT was going to be in 556 and 762.
>>30378077
cx4 does a good job vs toasters.
>>30387981
Holy shit, you are the dumbest person I've seen on /k/ for awhile.
Go load a rifle case with a full charge of Unique and see what happens, then come back and tell me if there is a difference between rifle and pistol powders.
>>30378541
In Ohio, until recently, anything with more than thirty round mags was considered a machine gun.
