Why doesn't the military use .22LR for squad level suppression? It doesn't have much power but the rationale for suppression is just keeping the enemies' heads down, which .22LR would be fine for.
For the same weight of a 30 intermediate round magazine, a LMG rifleman could carry 500 rounds.
I'm pretty sure it can't travel very far with any expectation of accuracy, anon.
>>30316623
you don't need accuracy for suppression
>>30316641
Actually you do.
>>30316613
Because it sounds like a cheap firecracker, wouldn't be very intimidating, which is kinda the point of suppression
>>30316613
Because they jam easily. .22 hornet rounds might be decent.
Because only Israelis think the .22lr is an acceptable weapon of war. Their definition of war is shooting Palestinian Muslim children for throwing rocks at a tank.
>>30316641
Interesting idea, it's light so you could carry a ton. Also a similar purpose built round, like a center fire 22 mag could work well. I've shot 22lr out to 300yds, and could still easily hit things.
full auto, and a bunch of drop compensation would get anyone's head down.
>>30316641
You kind of do. Not pinpoint precision, but you do need it to land in the general area and often at pretty long ranges. You need rounds slamming into the dirt around your target so that they shut down and shit themselves long enough to be picked off or mortared into the next century.
>Hey achmed, why do I hear soft patting sound 100 meters in front of us?
I'm only a faggot, so disregard if you will. The last time I shot my .22LR past 200m, the elevation on my sights had to be seriously adjusted to keep the target in view.
22LR doesn't fly flat enough for any kind of advancing battlefield situation. Perhaps it could be ok in a shorter, urban or CQB scenario, except it doesn't penetrate any cover found in such places.
TL;DR - this thread sux penis, and you should feel bad for posting.
>>30316702
>Abu Hajaar what is that noise?
>I don't know, maybe it's raining lightly?
>Quick Abu, peek over to see if enemy is still there!
>suddenly imagine SMG-sized belt-fed suppression system with two or three rotary barrels like a tiny GAU-8 (with fewer barrels ofc) that's electrically operated or backup hand-cranked
>would have drop-AOE reticule optic out to 400~ yards
>rate of fire from 100 to 2000RPM
>misfires, bad ammo, etc would just get ejected like a regular rotating barreled autocannon
tiny BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT soon comrades
>>30316688
>implying removing kebabs is bad.
>>30316623
I looked it up, 150 yards is the max for 22LR, 400 yards is the max for 556. Of course you can do some serious elevation to get out farther but a supressive role probably wouldn't want to do that.
It's a damn shame. Video related would be awesome.
https://youtu.be/pf31EZ9gAJk?t=1m4s
>>30316717
why did i lose so hard at the tldr
>>30316698
>like a center fire 22 mag could work well
uh, like the 5.7?
>>30316742
>I looked it up, 150 yards is the max for 22LR, 400 yards is the max for 556
Had a laugh while spotting the noguns
>>30316739
>implying the jack of all trades pistol caliber, 9mm, wouldn't be better with such a weapon
>>30316655
>>30316702
This. Also what do you do when you actually need accurate fire in traditional lmg caliber?
>enemy in the open
>wait let me switch my barrel and ammo
>>30316755
Read one sentence farther you mong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h0s_62jXuk
Alright /k/, maybe this fag's onto something, so what if a small, zippy, and above all, LOUD round like 5.7x28 or 7.62x25 was used for suppression?
>>30316758
The idea here is an inexpensive bullet hose that you can carry thousands of rounds without really being bothered. Two bricks of 22LR is like 200 rounds of 9x19 and it would serve the same purpose.
>>30316742
>400 yds is max for 5.56
Tell that to the shooters at Camp Perry.
>>30316702
You really think a hail of semi precise .22lr fire wouldn't get your head down?
I can see it now, an open bolt, belt fed, .25 acp +p auto. Has a 12" barrel, Weighs 6 lbs, and has a 400rd can.
>>30316781
>1 full minute of suppressive fire, weighs five pounds and fits in your pocket
They thought of that back in the 50's, it eventually led to the M16 getting adopted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Purpose_Individual_Weapon#Project_SALVO
>>30316747
5.7 is significantly more powerful than 22mag, 5.7 is more like 22 hornet
you still kinda want your round to be as lethal as a rifle round
the automatic rifleman still has to kill things
>>30316738
>ABU HAJAAR STOP WITH THE BRASS
>ABU HAJAAR
>ABU HAJAAR
>its not me, I think they're trowing gravel at us
>>30316827
That's what support is for. This wouldn't be a standalone weapon.
>>30316758
9mm is heavier than 5.56
>>30316739
Ok... I was a skepical faggot >>30316717, but you got me thinking.
What you said (electric 22 rotary cannon), but combined with a micro radar based tracker. Fits in 2 pelican cases (1 for gun/ tracker, one for ammo/battery). A single dude could deploy this in 30secs, leaving it to piss on anything within 90deg / 400m in front of it.
Steel core ammo for bonus helmet cracking points.
>>30316798
Imagine that with a reticle that automatically compensates for drop.
>>30316831
Curse them, their suppressive fire is giving me some serious welts.
>>30316827
>.22lr isn't lethal
granted it doesn't have the terminal ballistics of a rifle round but shower some fags with a couple thousand rounds of 22 and they'll probably be busier trying to stop getting shot than being effective at killing you
>>30316886
This is the idea, killing is for the rifleman
>>30316876
Doesn't need to be that complex. People use the 40mm grenade and that flies 10 times less flat than a 22LR.
A sight with a drop reticle for .22LR could let a guy hit a door-sized target in full auto at 400+ yards.
>>30316798
>Semi precise
Given the arc on a .22LR it would basically be plunging fire. Sure you might not want to stand around in it, but it's not very directed. Plus even shitty cover will provide significant protection against it. If they have one guy with an actual LMG to use, you are very quickly going to be the one being suppressed instead, because the rounds they'll send back won't be fucking around.
>>30316613
Because that means that your machinegunner is set up for a nasty surprise once he has to actually kill somebody instead of just laying suppressive fire.
>>30316613
What is "Grazing Fire" and "machine guns aren't called mass casualties producing weapons because they only suppress" for $800 Alex.
And if you're talking about "well it'll jus replace the SAW and not the 240", you're still losing a ton of range. SAW gunners can supress out to 600m on a point target without much trouble, .22 would be lucky to make it past 200m and still have any kind of force behind it.
Not to mention the whole logistics nightmare of supplying a separate caliber.
>>30316741
>remove kebabs from their own land
>"why are they migrating and shitting up our countries, /k/? >:( >:(
fucking kikes I swear
>>30316688
I think they classify .22lr as nonlethal
>>30316896
>killing is for the rifleman
Where the fuck do you people learn this stupid shit?
>>30316913
It'd be light enough a dedicated unit could carry it in addition to a carbine.
Supply Logistics would be an issue though.
>>30316924
If kebabs weren't uber-inferior subhumans they would smash Israel in a month. Guess what.
>>30316924
>implying kebabs being removed from Palistine are the ones immigrating en masse
That's wrong you fucking retard.
>>30316903
All true. I was thinking the auto aiming route in order to free up the squad member to do other tasks.
Perhaps link the little turret to a target designator contained in a binocular set. Allowing the user to prioritise zones, then move on.
Perhaps allow the dude who deployed the unit to switch to a DMR role, using a previously slung, harder hitting weapon. This could be used to coax enemies out of cover immune to the .22 auto hoser.
Before I get accused of faggotry, I am hasguns, but never served.
>>30316930
The 22 gunner keeps your head down, while you get flanked and shot
If I was doing it I'd make it a separate, ultra-light disposable weapon. Like these disposable flamethrowers.
>>30316913
My mom just came into my room to bring me a plate of chicken nuggets and I literally screamed at her and hit the plate of chicken nuggets out of her hand. She started yelling and swearing at me and I slammed the door on her. I'm so distressed right now I don't know what to do. I didn't mean to do that to my mom but I'm literally in shock from your hurtful post. I feel like I'm going to explode. Why the fuck do you have to be such a dick? This can't be happening. I'm having a fucking breakdown. I don't want to believe that /k/ has as big of assholes as you. I want a /k/ that I can post in. I want to have a calm discussion without fuckheads like you ruining it. I cannot fucking deal with this right now. It wasn't supposed to be like this, I thought night /k/ was supposed to be better???? This is so fucked.
>>30316951
unless you're fighting through brush, at great distance, or in slight wind
Yeah, maybe if we take something around 22 caliber, then up the case size to get more range out of it, maybe neck the case down, then we've got something...
I bet it'll be a super popular round.
>>30316924
those fucking shitskins have what, 30 countries to go be goat fucking shitskins in.
but no, muh holy land. fucking goatfuckers are 1000x worse than the fucking kikes. also, fuck off back to /pol/
>>30316934
Or you could just have that dedicated unit carry a SAW or LMG instead.
Or you could just have your standard rifleman supress and still have more killing power, but just carry more ammo instead of some useless .22
>>30316926
kek
>>30316966
>fucking goatfuckers are 1000x worse than the fucking kikes
go slide some more threads in /pol/ Shlomostein
>>30316951
So I'm basically fucked if I need my machine guns actually need to do anything is what you're telling me.
>want your machine gun to rip apart the enemy in an ambush
>lol .22lr
>enemy amassing forces and rushing towards you?
>lol .22lr
>need to set up some kind of defensive fires for a position you're holding
>lol .22lr
>enemy hiding behind some shitty cover you'd like to rip through?
>lol .22lr
>enemy beyond 200m?
>lol .22lr
The lists of things wrong doesn't stop.
>>30316967
A machine gun and ammo is heavy as fuck. A carbine, 22lr ultra lmg, and 2000 rounds of 22 would be lighter.
>>30316962
Did that AR-15 really bruise your shoulder, and give you PTSD? You don't need to be over dramatic, just tell us the truth now...
>>30317001
I have never been to /pol/, but don't they hate the Jews?
>>30317009
/pol/ are not so slanted in any particular direction - they hate everyone equally.
>>30317003
So you want me to replace a weapon system that does many things, for a weapon system that does only one thing, requiring the guy to also carry an M4 and his normal combat load.
And you think this will somehow be lighter then just carrying the one thing?
>>30317002
>not conserving your machine gun ammo, till you really need it
This wouldn't be standalone
>>30317024
just always seems any time someone says 'kike' or 'teh jewz did it' everyone spews about /pol/tards
I just hate most fucking mudslimes, just like most pavement apes.
>>30317009
/pol/ is a board of peace.
>>30317029
It does one specific thing well, it lets you conserve your heavy more effective ammo
>>30317037
Conserving ammo has nothing to do with the fact that .22lr is useless for actually killing anybody at any sort of decent range or using anything that offers more concealment than paper.
>>30317062
I just got hit in the face with a 40gr bullet going 500fps, no big deal
>>30316613
Rimfire is inherently unreliable.
However to your other points, I suspect 5.7 will see wider use in the next decade.
>>30317058
Or my gunner can not be a retard and not go full retard the whole engagement.
As it turns out "suppressive fire" isn't just a term that means "suppressing the enemy", it's a term for a specific rate of fire. Which spread across multiple machine guns- which even a squad sized element will have- means you're really not chewing through ammo that fast.
Also just how much ammo do you think is expended in an average engagement?
>>30317082
Belt fed 4.6x30mm
>>30317091
By using lighter cheaper ammo, you take a burden off the entire supply chain. This wouldn't be a machine gun replacement, so much as an additional special purpose weapon. Using it without support would be stupid.
>>30317080
>actually hitting somebody in the face past 100m with .22lr
You'd expend so much ammo attempting it that it would negate all the "additional" ammo you would be carrying versus a normal combat load.
Not to mention the fact that the enemy would be suppressing you with a weapon that can actually cause damage at the same time.
>>30317029
The military doesn't seem to have a problem lugging around shotguns for door breaching, you stupid noguns fagit.
>>30317138
There are people, who aren't you, who can do something called aim. Git gud scrub.
>>30316613
great idea OP, fax this to the pentagon right away!!
>>30317138
It's really not that difficult to compensate for the shit ballistics, I've taken a semi .22lr past 300yds. It's not difficult to walk the rounds in, without practice.
An optic with automatic elevation adjustment, and training would make it easy.
>>30317171
Fax your tongue to my anus.
It's a rimfire. Wouldn't it be a bit fucky in a belt-fed? I still don't understand the sorcery that makes BX-25s work, either, though, so maybe I'm not qualified to speak.
>>30316798
Not for long. I'd laugh, crawl into a fire position with my m240 and kill them from well over double their max range. And I don't mind carrying that beast + 1000 rounds for the privilege.
>>30316814
Exactly this is the thought behind 5.56, 7.62x39 and 5.45.
They're small enough
>>30317154
Yeah, I've actually used one before, that's a couple of extra pounds at most.
Any sort of .22lr suppression weapon is going to weigh more, while also providing less utility since its job is already done better by another weapon system.
>>30317162
I've got no problems hitting targets at 100m with my 10/22. But I'm also only punching paper and not having to rapidly change my elevation because .22lr drops like a lead brick after 100m to engage my target.
Where as 7.62mm flies at a relatively flat trajectory for about 600m.
>>30317138
>>30317162
Hence why I suggested leaving this to a computer to do the aiming / freeing up the user.
This idea slimly avoids fucktarded status IF, and only if, it serverely multiplies suppression duration for a given carried rate, AND allows the user to move on to other tasks from resultant automation.
P.S. As I'm an established homosexualizer, how many rounds at full auto could a .22LR barrel handle? The answer best be "millions" for this system to avoid said fucktardary.
>>30317207
*carried wieght.
Bet my paycheck the army would still give me 30kg worth of ammo to carry. A pack full of wee .22s
>>30317196
Would require a different way of separating the round from the belt.
Currently the round is pushed straight through the links into the chamber and that wouldn't work for rimmed cartridges.
Could do a ridiculous magazine, however it would require a different weapon to be carried just for suppression.
Waste of space, and weight.
5.56NATO suppression weapons (M249) are so great simply for the fact that ammo can be shared from the team, if the MG runs low, team can support with AR mags since it can use them as well as chain/box feed.
Same goes the other way, as the ammo is common between the M4 and M249
>>30317181
>it's not that hard to walk in .22lr at 300m when I'm shooting paper
This is exactly the same as combat.
>>30317207
>just have a computer program do it
So I now have to lug around some heavy ass- and probably unreliable- computer system just so I can supress- but not actually kill- any targets beyond 100 or so meters?
Why not just carry a SAW which will let me engage targets out to 800m or a 240 which will let me engage out to 1,100m?
Per pound you could carry 133 rounds of 22lr, vs 37 5.56mm. Over 3x the ammo per load.
>>30317237
That was without practice. Training and optics would make it much less of an issue.
>>30317260
And you'd have trouble killing a dog with it all beyond 100m. Let alone a soldier carrying useful weight
>>30317126
>By using lighter cheaper ammo, you take a burden off the entire supply chain.
nigga wat
Do you have no clue how logistics works?
More ammo variety makes logistics worse, not better. Everything standardized in .556 makes logistics easier. You do not have to worry about sending out ammo specifically for the riflemen and the guy with the SAW. M249 can even use m16 mags if need be, all this makes it easier on supply lines.
MacArthur cockblocked the .276 Garand just because of logistical reasons.
Ballisticly it was a toss up but .276 had
decreased weight and lower recoil.
>>30317287
No amount of practice is going to make compensating for .22lrs rapid drop off faster then being able to use the same 300m zero I use with 5.56mm being perfectly fine for 50m out to 500m
>>30316613
>Why doesn't the military use .22LR
Because no one makes 22LR any more.
>>30316881
>>30316831
>>30316924
>their own land
The entire Mediterranean is rightful Christian land
>>30316962
>>30317300
>less fuel
>less volume
>less metal
>less powder
All In exchange for a single additional cartridge.
Another cartridge isnt as much of an issue in an era where computers manage supply routing. There are plenty of more specialized NATO cartridges.
>>30316688
>>30316924
>spotted the goat fucker.
>>30317309
Optics could make it equivalent, assuming it's not really windy
>>30316613
Swedish Meatball Marines have already done something similar with their own meme cartridge.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_Bofors_Dynamics_CBJ-MS
They would have done it with .22lr, but Bubba and Joey have bought up all available stocks of it until the early 23rd century.
>>30316962
Get yourself diagnosed for the varying mental disorders you suffer from and seek help.
>>30316741
Back to /pol/
>>30317300
Yet when .30 carbine was introduced it was a tremendous success.
>>30316962
>mfw they took the bait
>>30317091
Wtf anon you bring up these solid points but don't deliver on the values.
Foul temptress. Begone!
>>30317419
Why does k always take the bait? Actually now that I think about it, happens with all subs with less shitposting. Like /out/, always gets triggered the hardest.
>>30317357
>implying that minor costs like that make a shit bit of difference.
The fucking government keeps buying tanks even though the Army tells them to stop.
You think fuel and material costs of some rounds are going to make a big enough difference to make it worth replacing the M249, complicate supply lines and fuck with the STANAG?
That isn't even mentioning rimfire's shit reliability.
Literally the definition of penny wise, pound foolish
>>30317360
>0.65 shekels has been deposited into your account
>>30317335
>implying the kebabs in that area aren't the local christians
The fuck is this retarded threat, holy fuck
>22lr
>long rifle
>doesn't travel long
>>30316763
An LMG wouldn't cycle if it had such a tiny caliber.
>>30316688
Everyone's getting pissed at you but Israelis are stupid overrated.
Tavors are stupid. Deagles don't work. Uzis are cheap shit. Pilots are not as good as as average NATO, no decent NCO corps, shit designs like Merkava that are not tanks or IFVs or APC, just shit.
They're a good occupation force. They have excellent jew media magic that wipes clean anything bad or hypocritical they do.
Otherwise just shit.
As a former 11B 240 gunner and AG this makes me both extremely sad and unbelievably angry. You are all fucking morons, and should kill yourselves if you think this is a good idea.
>>30316613
>effective range is too short
>unreliable relative to centerfire
>why lose ammo commonality between sqaud members?
>>30317838
That's like an EBT recipient giving input on how a farmer should grow crops. The EBT nog just eats the food and you just pulled the trigger.
Shut up, collect your welfare check and let the grown ups discuss grown up things.
>>30317838
And this is why you were cannon fodder.
>>30317838
Pretty much this, seriously how brain dead is this shit
>>30316831
This was his fate.
>>30317895
Not anon you replied to, but seriously "grown ups"? You mean faggot ass mall ninjas
>>30317895
HahaHaHAHAhahAHahaHahaHaHAHAhahAHaha HahaHaHAHAhahAHahaHahaHaHAHAhahAHaha HahaHaHAHAhahAHahaHahaHaHAHAhahAHaha HahaHaHAHAhahAHahaHahaHaHAHAhahAHaha HahaHaHAHAhahAHahaHahaHaHAHAhahAHaha HahaHaHAHAhahAHahaHahaHaHAHAhahAHaha HahaHaHAHAhahAHahaHahaHaHAHAhahAHaha, oh please stop! You’re killin’ me! Listen here GeekOPS, you go right ahead and continue on with your little playtime fantasy. Myself and the others here have better things to do than listen to your little gun-lube fantasy. If you want to sit behind your computer, safe in the knowledge that no one knows who you are or that you still wear Spiderman underwear, and continue your little ego farts then more power to you. No one, and I mean NO ONE here believes a single word of what you are saying. So, we are all off to more intellectually stimulating topics and say goodbye to you and all your multiple personality dissorders. Bye, bye!
>>30316788
They're just loud because they're fired from short barrels. Try 7.62 tok from a 500mm barrel and it'll be pretty tame. Same with fibe seben. Out of a long barrel its likely quieter than 5.56
>>30317895
>and let the grown ups discuss grown up things
lmao you fucking 12 year olds are hilarious
>>30316742
About 800 yards for effective area suppression friend, about 500 for average marksmanship. And there's some shooters that can take it way passed both
>>30316613
this shit right here >>30317002, OP
>>30316613
Because a leather coat can stop a .22
>>30316613
Metal storm exists
![mgv1w-in-the-military[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/JGXuCZl.jpg "mgv1w-in-the-military[1].jpg")
>>30316613
http://world.guns.ru/smg/yu/mgv-176-e.html
After the dissolution of Yugoslavia MGV-176 was manufactured in Sloveniaby Orbis, and apparently is used by Slovenian police.
It is a specialist weapon, which can be used at relatively short ranges,because of weak ammunition. However, when fired in full automatic mode, the veryhigh rate of fire combined with low recoil will result in a significant lethality through multiple hits to target.
>>30316613
As soon as the enemy knows you are using .22 ammo as your fireteams main firepower they will use it against you and most likely will not give a shit when they start hearing the little bullets pop past them.
This has to be a ruse thread
>>30317196
>>30317235
Because machine guns have never used rimmed cartridges before
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PK_machine_gun
>>30316613
Especially if they was TRACER BULLETS
no really i think tracers would be at least twice as scary as regular.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCsv30xysHA
>no ammo commonality with your squad
>whole new bullet brought into the logistics system
>no real benefit shooting wise because 5.56 doesn't kick much
>can't engage shit reliably past 100 yards
But no, apparently the Military is just too dumb for OPs brilliant Idea.
>>30316613
iirc they have feeding issues even on bolt and lever action rifles
>>30318702
looks like an american-180
>>30317643
Israeli military really is shit. If it wasn't for the incompetency of Arabs and the West constantly propping them up. The nation of Israel would have fallen a long time ago.
>>30316613
Bro, having been stuck with a SAW, 5.56 really isn't that bad. Hit the gym and it's like carrying belted candy.
>all dem replies
/k/ is one of the easiest boards to bait
>>30318109
5.7 even out of a 16" barrel has a decent sound to it.
>>30316671
this
rimfire is a bitch in autoloaders, but general concept isn't bad
>>30316613
>.22 Hornet tracers spandau
yes
>>30316962
Are you range buddies with the nuggets now?
>>30316641
You're the type of person who flinches each and every time someone sneezes unexpectedly, huh
>>30316613
>Making a reliable .22 machine gun
>ever
you know how dirty .22 LR is?
>>30316613
Uniformity of ammunition and well... 22lr is not going to do much at longer ranges.
>summer pls go
>>30321405
I really want an MG42 chambered in .22 now.
While shooting gophers last weekend with my .22lr I had to start compensating for bullet drop at roughly 50 yards. Effective suppression would be really difficult in most situations.
>>30322258
What the shit is going on in that pic
>>30322757
Herniated disc.
>>30322757
Free trip for 2 to Snap CIty.
>>30316781
The military should really look into this.
>>30316641
Said no machinegunner ever.
Didn't Yugoslavs/insert eastern block country come up with a full auto 22LR that had 300 round magazine? It was developed to suppress prison riots, but the whole concept was later dropped because of a higher than expected lethality.
>>30322922
nevermind im a twat
>>30322258
cross-shit does it again
The reward of novelty for stupid amounts of risk.
>>30317154
>using a scattergat
>not breaching doors with your buzzsaw like .22lr leadhose
>>30317384
>6.5x25 saboted tungsten rounds
Thats pretty fucking memtatsic, I'm sorry I doubted you anon.
>>30317604
It does compared to .22 short.
>>30317939
Is the guy rolling Abu Hajaar? I like this meme.
>>30316613
I want one of these in .22 magnum.
https://youtu.be/v8TmU5bXZ9M?t=43
