Was this justified?
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http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/06/01/firearms-instructor-avoids-charges-shooting-man-shoving-match/
I'm going to presume that firearm instructors are trained not to escalate a situation.
Any instructors lurk /k/ to confirm?
He was too quick to go to the gun.
I would've smashed my fist into that guys face before I shot him.
>>30187812
maybe he shouldn't have started shit he couldn't finish
i dont know why he got pissed of to start with, and no one care when he was making a ass of him self but then he had to throw shit every where, still no one cared they were just getting the license plate then , he started assaulting people backing that guy into a corner
>what are you gonna do shoot me
>he dindu nuffin
>>30187812
He wanted to play cop. Its hard to know the context of what was happening without sound, but it looked like the guy was just being an asshole and not posing much of a threat to anyone until the instructor escalated the situation. He should have just let him leave instead of following him out of the store.
>>30189400
nah he wasn't playing cop. getting a license plate number (so the police could deal with it) is hardly escalating the situation, they were allowing him to leave.
>>30189874
Besides being a dick, was he actually committing any crimes?
>>30189874
Indeed. however nobody forced that guy to go back into the store. nobody forced him to push people around. He could have deescalated the situation by leaving but decided to take things further.
"Idiot shoots moron" isn't a very catchy event, but it is an extremely common event in America.
>>30189886
well according to the article he was told to leave so trespassing when he came back inside to throw shit at the clerk, I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure that's assault too, anyway it doesn't matter because he went on assault another guy and grab for his gun while he was trying to get the license plate number
>>30189966
He was justified, but this situation could have ended very easily without anyone being shot.
He should know better and not treat people like he treats his wife.
You cant do that to strangers, man. It sucks that he had to die but the world is a fucked up place because people think they can treat others like animals
>>30189985
ya it could have if the dick throwing a temper tantrum in the store didn't assault people and grab for their guns
>>30189985
Stupid games, stupid prizes. Now baldy's gun sits in evidence for a year (and gets returned with evidence number etched into frame) and he risks litigious hell from the other guy's surviving family when it could have been avoided.
Maybe the instructor knew the clerk like a long time customer and was like "Whoa this dude is crazy and going off the rails on my buddy and me"
Maybe the instructor was afraid the guy would come back with his own gun
Maybe he was proactive to stop people like this from shitting up his neighborhood
These are all assumptions and maybes
>>30190015
fuck that if I was that store owner I'd sue the dicks estate for the time it took to clean up his mess and time the store was closed while they investigated
>>30187812
Universal rule of everything:
Don't want none
Don't start none
Won't be none.
Getting pissed off over some dumb shit in a convenience store is bad enough.
Getting pissed off because your shitty aggressive pissed-offedness made the proprietor take precautions like taking your license plate is even more dumb.
Getting so pissed off that you followed the guy BACK INTO THE STORE to start fisticuffs is even MORE stupid.
This was 100% justified. If you want to lay hands on someone it better be for a goddamn good reason.
Going to town on an attempted rapist that you personally witnessed is a good reason.
Being pissed off in a convenience store is NOT a good reason.
If you're going to initiate a physical confrontation it better be for a reason worth dying for.
All I know is once someone lays hands on me its already too late to do most things anyways
Once you cant keep your distance from a attacker you are vulnerable to all types of shit
These are facts
That article was shit. It read like a soccer mom account of the story.
What im trying to say is
once you cant kite the melee mob ur fucked
>>30189952
>Idiot shoots moron
An all too common occurrence...I kek'd
>>30187812
Justified? Yes
Avoidable? Also Yes
>>30190113
How was it avoidable? The guy was cornered.
>>30190136
It was just explained above, go back and re-read it.
I think some people in this thread believe that because the instructor went out to check the guys car out it gave the attacker dude the right to corner him and attack?
lol
All I hear is "the instructor shouldnt have done that thats why he was attacked and guilty of not de escalating" though I dont understand how being proactive and checking out some dudes ride or where he is going should open me up for an assault
Next itll be "that guy didnt de escalate the situation because he made too much direct eye contact and brought the violence on himself" hahaha
Stay cucked
>>30190155
>i have a indefensible argument
>>30190136
>cornered
He backed into a corner, like an idiot
>How was it avoidable
CC so he doesn't know you've got a gun and isn't going to go for it. Then, using both your hands, which are now free, wrestle his fat ass to the ground and sit on him.
The instructor held him off pretty well just shoving him with one hand, so if he was actually trying with both, he'd have got somewhere.
End of the day though, the idiot isn't dead, so maybe he's learned a lesson about being a dick.
>>30190077
Truf.
>>30190190
Oh hes not dead? Man thats good to hear. Maybe hell learn something
>>30187812
It's the other dued's kinda fault desu, he should have just let him take pics of his license plate and left it at that. He also shouldn't have started pushing a guy who was OC'ing a gun. But the other dude kinda is a dunce as well, cause he didn't really need to shoot the man, he could have just fought his way through it.
>>30187812
Justified? Yes, the guy who got shot was the one who started the physical altercation.
Entirely avoidable? Also true, should have just let the guy leave in a huff.
>I'm going to presume that firearm instructors are trained not to escalate a situation.
You know what they say about when you assume...
>>30190234
>>30190190
THE GUY HE ATTACKED WAS OCing?!?!
Wow people dont give a fuck nowadays huh?
I bet the guy was thinking "this dude aint gonna shoot me shiiiiet ill sue him"
>>30190234
>he dindu nuffin
>you could have shot him in the little toe
>could have tazered him
>>30190209
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/04/05/open-carrying-firearms-instructor-attacked-kills-assailant/
hes dead and bob owens is a faggot
>>30190234
Yeah let's just go and fight someone that I don't need to because he's pissed about whatever.
You guys seriously think people should get into fist fights they didn't start when they have the means to avoid getting injured?>>30190239
It's been stated looking at someone is not escalating the situation. Firearms instructor did fine the aggressor should have left. Firearms guy went to ensure the guy was actually leaving and maybe a license plate check instead of coming back in with a weapon. Whole situation was avoidable if pissed off guy wasn't such a faggot and pissed about whatever.
pretty sure the words " what are you gonna do, shoot me ? " were involved at one point desu senpai.
pretty good lesson for both parties tho , as in
" start shit , get shit "
and
"get involved in shit , get shit "
if only it was an exemple on why you need to not be an ass with others human beans, but history proves a gorillion times this won't be the case
Rule 1 of carrying is never get involved. Avoid any fight and any confrontation. You have to be a rock in situations like this. Let the guy go, and don't get involved in things that aren't your problem unless there is serious risk to you or others' life, limb, health, and eyesight. By following blue shirt the instructor got involved and fucked up. However, when blue shirt laid hands on him, his life is now forfeit.
Is it justified? Yes. Would it be better if this was avoided? Of course. Could this have easily been avoided? Abso-fucking-lutely. Everyone in this situation except the clerk was an asshole and made mistakes that ended in someone dying.
>>30190464
This is the correct answer.
>Could this have easily been avoided? Abso-fucking-lutely.
^ the only part I disagree with. The asshole was acting irrationally, and there's no telling what he would've done had the shooter not gone out to check his license plates.
Might he have just drove away? Possibly. But there's no way of knowing, and judging by how little it took to set him off we might've just seen him come back into frame by driving his car into the storefront.
Doesn't mean walking out there was the right choice, though.
>>30190464
>By following blue shirt the instructor got involved
Nigger, no. If thats "getting involved", then fucking anything is.
>DONT LOOK IN THE EYES, MUH ESCALATION
>DONT TALK TO ANYONE, MUH ESCALATION
>DONT GO OUTSIDE, MUH ESCALATION
Simply following somebody is not esculating, is not getting invovled. Thats simply fucking absurd.
>>30187812
Victim blaming: the thread.
>>30187812
WAIT HOLY FUCK ST. Tammany parish?
I live there. Why haven't I heard of this.
>>30190757
This. If the instructor was talking shit that's getting involved but I doubt he did. Walking out with someone to ensure they are actually leaving instead of returning with a weapon or something of that nature is not escalating. If it is don't look at me or walk near me or I'll fight you because you escalated it.
>>30190927
>tfw some autist thinks leaving his moms basement is escalation.
>>30190234
Yeah, he didn't need to, letting him grab his gun or beat him up were both choices.
>>30187812
Totally justified.
I would have shot after the first few pushes (I am a disabled vet with a spinal fusion), the cc instructor was calm and waited long enough and I'm sure he was vocal about the incoming bullet.
The guy who was shot was abrasive/confrontational and deserved it 100%
>>30189400
I found the European guys!
>>30190015
Like that's a bad thing, I'd frame that gun and be damn proud. >>30189952
How was the guy an idiot for protecting himself against a crazed asshole? I would have shot too.
>>30190927
>>30190971
>HELP! I'M BEING ESCALATED!
GUYS DONT LOOK DIRECTLY INTO THE EYES OF VIOLENT PEOPLE OR WALK IN THEIR GENERAL DIRECTION WHEN THEY LEAVE OR YOU WILL BE THROWN IN PRISON FOR INCITING A RIOT
Dont even raise your voice to people who are/want to inflict bodily harm to you or you will have all rights stripped
>>30191204
Am I being escalated? Officer, are you escalating me?
>>30191307
t. Calicuck
>Remeber kids, if you face a person who wishes to inflict harm upon you, run away! If you happen lose the footrace, fret not! Just blow the rape whistle, shit yourself and try to vomit!
>>30191436
What if I clog the rape whistle with my vomit while trying to blow it? Or if I can't blow the whistle because of the skin flute in my mouth?
>>30190757
He followed the guy out of the store for the purpose of getting his license plate number, presumably to help police identify the man after he left. He took a side in a conflict that he had no business being a part of. Strawman harder faggot.
>>30191425
Birth of a new maymay
>>30191560
You still have a nostril free, don't you? JAM THAT FUCKER IN AND BLOW
BLOW YOUR WAY TO FREEDOM
>>30191436
I don't get this "t. [insult]" meme. Can someone explain it to me.
>>30191578
>He followed the guy out of the store for the purpose of getting his license plate number,
Still not escalation. Still not getting invovled. I can go around writeing down every License plate number in the world.
Try harder.
>>30191578
As a CC holder, I am obligated to step in when there is confrontation near that might be warranting some killing. I deal out your killing, kid.
>>30191722
Basically, its putting a face behind the post.
I basically implied you are a cuck from California, where such viewpoints orginate
>>30191795
Right, I understand what it means but I specifically want to know the grammar behind the "t."
Is it an abbreviation of something?
And I'm not the person who you called a cuckold, either.
>>30191810
Yes, t. Is the start of a signature.
t__________
>>30191816
Thank you
>>30191618
I'm so damned proud.
>>30191727
Are you being intentionally obtuse for the sake of trolling, or are you just completely unable to understand social situations?
If you're in a situation where things heat up, and someone follows you as you leave, then you're going to wonder what his fucking problem is. If he's trying to get your plates as well? Yeah, fuckers trying to get you in shit with the law. People don't like it when you try to send to cops after them.
When someone's worked up over something, doing shit he won't like where he can see it escalates the situation. And he probably won't see you as a a neutral bystander either.
Arguments like yours show how well and truly dead gun control is in the US, because when they have "responsible gun owners" like this instructor and you to point to as examples, the no-gun bunch shouldn't have had any problems getting absolutely everything banned.
>>30187812
>We noted at the time that the “instructor’s” decision to follow Breland out of the store, overtly attempting to get his license plate number, was a dangerous and needless provocation
pic related
I don't intentionally pollute myself with bullshit biased media.
>>30191866
>People don't like it when you try to send to cops after them.
Thats tough for them. If he did not chimp and and break the law, he would not have had him do that.
>When someone's worked up over something, doing shit he won't like where he can see it escalates the situation.
No, it logically does not. If he is getting worked up about you doing nothing to him, and basically freely walking where you want, thats tough for him. Still not esculation.
>And he probably won't see you as a a neutral bystander either.
What he sees is irrelevant.
>>30187812
I’m more pissed at the stupid woman (0:55sec in) buying a _singe can of pop_ with her fucking debit card…
>>30191866
>DONT TALK, MUH ESCALATION
>DONT WALK, MUH ESCALATION
>DONT LOOK, MUH ESCALATION
>UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, BE IT ASSAULT, RAPE, MURDER, DONT GET INVOVLED, DONT LOOK, DONT HEAR, TURN AND RUN BLOWING YOUR RAPE WHISTLE, MUH ESCALATION.
ITT: summer kids haven't heard of stand your ground
Only thing the instructor did wrong was not shooting earlier and more often.
Besides, if you're a fucking adult and you start a physical fight with someone, you deserve to get fucking shot.
If I had been the faggot who came back into the store and started pushing the instructor, he would have been totally justified in ending my life.
>>30191866
>C'cked; the post
Let me guess, you're not an american.
>>30191866
As soon as someone lays hands on you in a physical manner in america we have the right to shoot to kill. I am disabled physically, this guy would not know jack shit about me one wrong "fall" and I could become paralyzed.
I will shoot to kill if hands are laid on me or my person, you dumb cunt.
>>30191866
>reporting a crime is esculating
i mad. Not that you think that, you are trolling of course.
I mad that there are people who think that.
Sometimes you don't reconsider your life choices until it's too late.
>>30192039
>Maybe it was not a good idea to threaten the guy with the gun.
Last time he does that shit.
>>30191816
But why "T." What does the T stand for?
It's hard for me to sympathize with someone who will repeatedly assault someone with a firearm over and over again for no good reason.
Could it have been avoided? Sure, but people shouldn't have an obligation to risk and inconvenience themselves to preserve the health and well being of someone with no regard for others.
>>30192123
This.
If I ever pulled that kind of shit, I honestly think that my victim would be justified in killing me.
>>30191894
>What he sees is irrelevant.
He's not going to get upset by that which he doesn't perceive. So it does matter quite a lot what he sees. That you claim otherwise... well, it merely shows your bullshit for what it is.
All in all you're sounding like the "too cool for school" kid who will never, ever accept that he is in any way responsible for anything bad. It's always what someone else did, or someone else is also doing something bad as well which is to magically make his behaviour acceptable.
If you can't deal with people getting pissed off, don't piss them off. It's that fucking simple. But for some reason it seems that nowadays kids think no one is ever to react to what they do with more than an image macro.
>>30191948
Oh dear, did I accidentally step on someone's dreams of going full Judge Dread and being a shining hero for it?
>>30192098
http://www.suomienglanti.com/en/dictionary-finnish-english/terveisin
>>30187812
>http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/06/01/firearms-instructor-avoids-charges-shooting-man-shoving-match/
Sure wish we had some background info on WTF happened here?
Clearly Fat Customer dropped the gloves, when he suddenly spazed out on Store Clerk for no apparent reason. Was he on drugs, off his meds, WTF? Because up to that point, everything appeared normal, though for a second there when Fat Customer stepped back and reached for his wallet, I thought he was going to pull a gat and hold up the joint.
Why the hell does Bald Guy continue standing at the counter, right next to Fat Customer and Store Clerk who are yelling at each other? Something is obviously going down and that bottle of fucking Motor Honey just ain’t worth getting drawn into it, man. I’d have left the shit on the counter and done a 360* right out the door.
Why follow Fat Customer out of the store to get his license plate number? Sure, being a Good Samaritan and helping out Store Clerk is nice and all but the cops are already on the way (presumably, as Store Clerk was on the phone a couple of times?) and it was just a bag of fucking Doritos that Fat Customer dumped on the counter (that he already paid for).
Then Bald Guy waits too long to shoot Fat Customer, who could have punched or stabbed or shot him at any point once he went full-retard and started shoving Bald Guy around.
Justified shooting, but Bald Guy should left the store the moment Fat Customer started getting loud.
>>30192039
That's exactly what I was thinking, what a stupid sonofabitch
>>30192165
>He's not going to get upset by that which he doesn't perceive.
Oh shit, let me get my invisibility cloak.
>So it does matter quite a lot what he sees.
Not if he is being completely irrational.
>All in all you're sounding like the "too cool for school" kid who will never, ever accept that he is in any way responsible for anything bad.
You litterally said reporting a crime is escalation, so fuck man your thoughts on me are irrelevant, its almost as if you are....
>It's always what someone else did, or someone else is also doing something bad as well which is to magically make his behaviour acceptable.
>something bad as well which is to magically make his behaviour acceptable
>make his behaviour acceptable
>behaviour
A BRITKEK. BY GOD A CONFIRMED BRITKEK, IT ALL MAKES SENSE!
>blah blah blah more nogunz serf rambleing
Whatever you think, you irrelevent fucboi. Go do whatever it is on your foggy rainy shithole island. God save the queen.
>>30192165
You are either a muslim in europe or a jew in Canada. Enjoy your future!
>>30189916
Nobody forced fat ass to start shoving people, dumb fuck won't be around to make that mistake again.
>>30192261
>Why follow Fat Customer out of the store to get his license plate number?
Dude had every opportunity to leave the store but he chose to get butthurt and go back inside to harass the cashier. He deserved to be put down, he was acting like a wild animal and was liable to hurt somebody. The gun guy probably should have stepped aside and called the police, only drawing if the guy actually started hurting somebody instead of provoking him, but when you assault an OCer you're a retard if you complain about the outcome.
>>30192327
He was fleeing after the cops were called. He was within his right to get a plate number/description of the car for the cops when they arrive.
You are having a real tough time understanding how the law works and how he was well within reason.
>>30192220
So your taking a Finish word that no one but you knows what it means, abreviating it and are trying to force a meme out of it?
>>30192377
t. newfag
>>30192377
Newfag pls
It's usually used with spurdo, a finnish meme
>>30192377
>questioning the meme mastery of the finnish people
>>30192377
>force a meme
Man, this t. stuff has been around for at least 2 years now (granted, most prolifically on /pol/). It came from a particular Finnish forum and spread from there.
>>30187812
What an easily avoidable death. The fatass punisher wannabe is lucky.
What idiot follows an obviously agitated and belligerent fuckhead out to try and get his plates like that?
He could have just snapped a picture or checked it out as the guy was driving away.
What a dumbass.
>>30192413
Try the last six months, not even close to two years
>>30192377
t. newfag
>>30192434
It's definitely been around longer than that here, at least a year
>>30192447
No, your timeline would be way off.
Less than a year, probably greater than six months
>>30192429
>GAWD ITS [insert year here]!! WHO REPORTS CRIMES ANYMORE? GAWD.
>>30192459
Nah, I just checked and there are spurdo videos using it that date back to at least 2012, which I know were posted all over /pol/. It didn't become a standalone meme until more recently though.
>>30192486
>>30187812
I think it was justified the due was being an ass it was necessary to annotate and report the fucker license plate what if he went down the road and killed someone and attacked them he's obviously unhinged
>>30192039
>>30190113
I agree but I cant fault the guy for trying to get a license plate and description of the vehicle so the cops can take care of it I just would not have gotten that close to his car Id have stood at the door and snapped a few pics with my phone as he left
>>30192165
>being a good witness and taking down information is now playing Judge Dread
What Euro Cucktry are you from?
>>30192578
Ehh, I don't know if I'd want somebody that angry getting back on the road to begin with.
>>30192369
Seems you're are having a real tough time understanding that the crazy fat guy could have killed the bald guy.
What if the fat guy had a concealed handgun on him?
Bald guy would've been dead, over a fucking bag of potato chips...
>>30192486
Are you the kind of person who would scream "AM I BEING DETAINED!?!?" Over and over again?
He clearly said it would better to be subtle about getting his plates, not that he shouldn't do it.
I know it's hard but try to reign in your aspergers.
You can be an ass to people but when they are an ass back you are in the right and they should just leave you alone or they are guilty of not de escalating a situation you brought upon them and their peace
-signed by the E.U
>>30190270
>I bet the guy was thinking "this dude aint gonna shoot me shiiiiet ill sue him"
I'm sure he was. That's probably also the reason that he held back from shoving him. He was a lot bigger than the "instructor" and could have done more damage than he did. My guess is he was a little drunk and, like you said, thought that the guy wouldn't pull the trigger.
Here are a list of actions that deem you a de escalator
-eye contact
-movements (any, even when they leave)
-talking
-defending yourself when attacked or cornered
-being proactive so that the attacker doesnt come back and re escalate the situation or showing any sign to the attacker that you are ready to defend yourself
>>30192630
>>GAWD ITS [insert year here], WHO REPORTS CRIMES ANYMORE. GAWD.
>>30192795
*non de escalator
>>30192795
I hope, sincerely, that this is sarcastic.
>>30192797
http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/mental-health-aspergers-syndrome
>He also tends to have an obsessive focus on one topic or perform the same behaviors again and again.
I'm worried about you anon, get some help.
>>30192874
Thanks buddy, ill look into it! :^)
>itt: people think "repeated shoving" deserves the death penalty
Dude didn't even throw a punch.
Was he an asshole? Yup.
Was he a moron? Yup.
Did he deserve to have the police called and charges filed against him? Yup.
Did he deserve to have the shit kicked out of him? Yup.
Did he deserve to die? Nope.
Cases like this are why the anti's hate us and say the stupid shit about gun fights in the street.
No ones life was in danger. This is problem number one. He didn't need to grab his gun because the dude was shoving him.
Problem two. He OVERTLY went outside the store to again OVERTLY get the license plate number. It's fine to get as good of a description as possible. This James Yeager wannabe (seriously, look at his bald ass head, shitty goatee, and "punisher skull" shirt) decided to escalate the situation by following and provoking an already agitated individual.
We carry so that we can protect ourselves and/or others in moments of the gravest extreme. This was not one of those moments.
I like to ask myself a simple question to answer if a shooting is justified. If the shooter didn't have his gun would he or an innocent around him likely been killed? The answer in this scenario from what we can tell is no. But the "instructor" pulled so quickly it's hard to tell how far the shoving man would have gone.
This wasn't even a fist fight gone wrong. This was a piss poor shoving match that the Yeager impersonator decided was worth taking a life over. I also like how he had zero regard for the clerk's life.
>>30193122
Stop escalating me. I'm about to be triggered which gives me the right to assault you, which could result in a lethal altercation for you, and you cannot defend yourself with force other than shoving.
>>30193122
>>itt: people think "repeated shoving" deserves the death penalty
>PEOPLE
the DA thinks it. You are straight in the wrong here.
>Problem two. He OVERTLY went outside the store to again OVERTLY get the license plate number.
Oh, im sorry was he supposed to be solid snake?
>decided to escalate the situation by following and provoking
>>reporting a crime is provokeing
Wew lad
>We carry so that we can protect ourselves and/or others in moments of the gravest extreme
Well lets see here, the criminal was clearly trying to fight a guy with a gun. Thats pretty fucking extreme to me.
>The answer in this scenario from what we can tell is no.
Oh, yes, lets get in a fight to see how it plays out. Hey, the bald guy could have won! Therfore he should have risked his physical well being to fight a crazy guy!
All in all; Not logical/10.
The fucking DA disagrees with you. Your wrong, wrong, wrong.
Reporting a crime is not esculating. You have to be some kind of megacu.ck to even think this.
>>30193183
He cannot understand that people are not predictable and who's to say all this guy wanted to do was push him. Who's to say he wasn't a second away from clobber in him leaving permanent brain damage? Or pulling out his own gun and shooting? Once the physical barrier is crossed, there's no going back.
I love the U, S, of A
>>30193218
Nigga, motherfuckers can have handicaps that "pushing" can permenantly fuck up.
Gtf outta here with your closed minded thinking.
>>30193248
Uhhh, wrong person?
>>30191727
To be clear I'm not saying that the guy didn't deserve to be shot when he started pushing the guy the guy with the gun. That was justified. But if he didn't insert himself into the situation, maybe someone wouldn't have died, which is the best possible outcome. And he did insert himself into the situation.
Let's say you see two people fighting. They throw a few punches then walk away. You decide to follow one of them to get a physical description for the police, he notices you, swings at you, and you shoot him dead. It was a justified shooting, but you were partly responsible for creating the situation that ended with a person being shot dead. You must be able to understand this. Heated up, belligerent people probably aren't thinking clearly and it's best to be just leave them alone.
>>30193257
My bad yeah
>>30193183
As a self defense instructor no, he shouldn't have escalated the situation he should have known better. Does doing so give the other guy the right to start chimping out? Obviously not. No one is saying that. But as a SELF DEFENSE INSTRUCTOR he should have known better. If you carry then YOU should know better. You shouldn't continue to provoke the situation until you're forced to use your weapon. You should be working towards a situation that doesn't involve violence not trying to create it.
Also in some, not all perhaps, but some jurisdictions you're only allowed to meet force with equal levels of force.
>inb4 hurr so you can't shoot a guy who attacks you with a knife?
A knife is lethal force.
A gun is lethal force.
A can of watermelon drink and the concrete pavement can be lethal force.
Shoving is not lethal force.
Hell even a fist can obviously be lethal force but again no punches were thrown.
Context is 99% of things but think about times you might have gotten into a shoving match with a buddy. Maybe it starts off as horseplay and by the end of it you're both mad. Does shoving each other give one of you the right to pull a gun and shoot the other dead?
The instructor was assaulted. This much is clear. Just touching someone can be assault these days though.
It comes down to this. The instructors life was NOT IN DANGER WHEN HE SHOT.
The rest of the situations like his poor decision making just go to show he's a wannabe tough guy. If the victim had come at the instructor with a bat, a tire tool, a knife, any weapon or had even started beating the instructor or kicking him I would say the instructor was justified but showed poor judgement.
As is the instructor is lucky he's not facing charges.
Yet again this is why anti gun people hate us.
>>30187812
>the slanted views of the writer
wew lads
>>30193263
>. But if he didn't insert himself into the situation, maybe someone wouldn't have died
Sometimes people deserve death. He certainly did. If he is willing to get into an altercation over somebody doing something legal (infact, its a felony for him to prevent somebody else from reporting a crime), he gets what he gets.
>You decide to follow one of them to get a physical description for the police, he notices you, swings at you, and you shoot him dead. It was a justified shooting, but you were partly responsible for creating the situation that ended with a person being shot dead.
No, I am reacting to the other persons actions. He is 100% fucking reponsable for his actions, not me. If he wants to threaten me for my 100% legal fucking actions, its 0% on me, 100% on him.
You have to understand this.
>>30193289
His aggressive demeanor throughout the video and his "pushing", which was clearly more than that, more like he was repeatedly shoving with intent to harm, would be witnessed by everyone with a brain on their shoulders.
Now fuck off faggot.
>>30193289
>Also in some, not all perhaps, but some jurisdictions you're only allowed to meet force with equal levels of force.
You cant get beat to death? Wew lad. As a self defense instructer you are doing a disservice, and might get somebody killed.
>The instructors life was NOT IN DANGER WHEN HE SHOT.
He was in a fight. Somebody crazy enough to fight somebody with a gun is indeed fucking insane, and capable of anything. What if he knocks the bald guy out, and takes his gun? What then? Shall we wait for that to happen?
He was not a danger to the bald guy, but a danger to everyone else.
>>30193218
A DA in a republican county doesn't want to risk prosecuting a guy in a "self defense" shooting case come election time? Imagine that.
>>30193345
You're the worst kind of person. A fucking professional blame deflector. It's a high demand position these days.
>>30193338
>He was not a danger to the bald guy
Glad you agree
>>30190042
You sir are my new friend. Zap rowsdower is based.
>>30193382
Ahh, i missed a word.
He was not ONLY a danger to the bald guy, he was a danger to everyone else.
Thanks for catching that.
>>30193404
You know carrying a CC in many states you are obligated to defend others whose lives are a in threat or perceived danger, in public. A hundred percent justified.
He was posturing like a damn gorilla.
The intent is pretty clear that he wanted an escalation and should have been held responsible for it.
This idiot should not be around weapons.
guise this worries me as an american. If i get backed into a corner do I have to wait until I get beaten to a bloody pulp before I pull?
>>30193463
Your right, when confronted with a crazy person you should slouch and look down and mumble, preferably shriviled up in the corner waiting for mommy to bring the van around so you can leave.
Muh posture....jesus fucking christ kid.
>>30193434
>You know carrying a CC in many states you are obligated to defend others whose lives are a in threat or perceived danger, in public
citation needed.
>>30193489
Nice strawman, faggot
>>30193524
How is it a strawman, you litterally tried to state a persons intent in a stressful situation via fucking posture. Your entire point is a god damn strawman, i just shoved it in your face.
Muh fuckin posture, out of all the fucking things.
Kill yourself at once.
Shoving a person back over and over again is a way to get into a persons range/test defense/push someone into something
Its pretty much a jab thrown by pussies who cant commit
>>30193495
Since you wanna be an old little faggot here read up gramps.
http://www.flcwla.com/faq.htm
>>30193543
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Read a fucking book on body language sometime, you ignorant coon.
Everybody knows you can only defend yourself against an unarmed assailant after they execute an attack equal to or greater than a flying dragon kick.
>>30193616
Do you know what the word obligated means?
Doesn't say shit about being obligated to use a cc to defend others. It just says when deadly force is authorized. You can use it in those extreme situations, but you don't have to.
If you stand erect and balanced while being verbally/physically assaulted you're just showing your attacker that his aggressions haven't proved useful.
Here are some tips to defeat your attacker without violence
Slouch and unbalance yourself so that it is easier to fall onto the ground if things turn physical (falling to the ground with your hands up before he is in range also works)
Feigning fear by bugging out eyes and quivering lower lips
Saying Im sorry repeatedly (this should be done facing away from the attacker and not making eye contact)
Backing yourself into a corner even if its halfway across the room
>>30193495
>>30193495
>>30193616
Q. When can I use deadly force in the defense of another person?
A. If you see someone who is being attacked, you can use deadly force to defend him/her if the circumstances would justify that person's use of deadly force in his/her own defense. In other words, you "stand in the shoes" of the person being attacked
good Samaritans are still legal in the US, faggot
>>30193658
I meant it's legal, I forgot to factor in being a pussy, which in your case I would have to.
>>30193628
Yeah, im well aware what a strawman is.
Apperently you can read minds via body language.
What a bitch.
>>30193686
Ouch anon.
>>30187812
>recording the license plate is not escalating the situation
>aggressive and irrationally angry larger man
>backs shooter into a corner
>surrounded by dangerous weapons (wine bottles will fuck you up)
the instructor did everything he could not to escalate the situation...until he felt a wall behind him. fuck the blue shirt dick.
I believe in standing your ground, kicking ass, and even liberal application of lethal force, but come the fuck on. Like I'm going to come withing a million miles of getting Zimmermaned over a fucking gas station snack throwing dispute.
The article made it sound a lot worse than it was. Even the screen cap has him when he's leaning to look at the plate number so he looks like he's trying to be intimidating.
The only thing I would have done is gotten a photo of the guys car/license plate more discreetly and given the guy more of a chance to drive off, but it's pretty easy to be critical of that in hindsight.
>>30193812
Oh yeah, he wanted the guy to completely chimp out.
Come the fuck on, he got backed into a corner, litterally.
>>30193704
as a machinist, i find this amusing.
>>30192386
yfw i've been here so long that i made the first QTDDTOT and your calling me a newfag because I don't recognize a /pol/ only meme
but...
>>30192444
trips speak truth
oh shit what now
>>30193975
I called !grenade a crazy nigger, you filthy disgusting newscum.
>>30194010
Also im not that guy....just to be uhhh...clear.
Newscum.
>>30194075
np old fag
>>30187812
instructor fag here, this guy did everything wrong. Just let him fucking go, the gun doesn't turn you into the police. Not my fucking problem, especially because he wasn't actually hurting anyone until fatboy decided to follow him.
>>30194093
>Dont report crime if you have a gun
Wew lad.
>>30194118
If you have a gun, use your judgement to avoid conflict. Most non-autistic people could realize that following an angry, violent guy out of a store to get his plates might start a conflict with said angry, violent guy. You can report crime, but maybe instead of following the guy out of the store he could have read the plate number or take a video as he's driving away. Don't even have to leave the store, just look through the glass.
>>30194118
Where did I say that? Absolutely report it, police have found more people with less information. Get the plate if you can but don't be the fucking dildo making it obvious that you are. By going out and following him and getting behind him you are further aggravating the situation. Why couldn't he just stand in front of the store and get the front plates? or get the rear plates as he drove off. You job is to be a good witness not a fucking detective.
>>30193812
It stopped being about snacks when bluefat started assaulting a second person
>>30193289
I'm being escalated! Stop infringing on my right to not be watched!
When retreating from an attacker do so slowly. A swift retreat can be misconstrued by the attacker as you not enjoying his company and can make you a target. A few "it's not you it's me"s will further de escalate the situation.
>>30194224
>If you have a gun, use your judgement to avoid conflict.
Absolutely. However, simply walking out and viewing a car is not instigateing conflict. Its not. Full stop.
If you legitimately belive that, you are are a walking meme, who believe litterally anything can be construed to be "escalation".
>>30194231
Getting front or back plates, being a fucking witness, has not, nor ever been, escalation.
You are a moron if you think this. See above.
>>30187812
>getting license plate
>unnecessarily "escalating" the situation
>pic related
Holy fuck it's the Trayvon Martin thing all over again with Zimmerman "escalating" the situation to see which way the dindu went to tell the police.
>>30192039
>he called my bluff
>>30193122
> Was he an asshole? Yup.
> Was he a moron? Yup.
> Did he deserve to have the police called and charges filed against him? Yup.
> Did he deserve to have the shit kicked out of him? Yup.
Agreed.
> Did he deserve to die? Nope.
Disagree. When the Fat Guy went after Bald Guy and physically _attacked_ him, Bald Guy was perfectly justified in shooting him dead.
You can’t expect someone who is being attacked to just take it and hope for the best, for all we know Fat Guy could have pulled a gun or knife or bashed Bald Guy over the head with a bottle of whisky.
There can be no expectation or legal requirement that the victim of an attack be limited to defending themselves to the same method being used to attack them. Plenty of people have been beaten to death by fists alone.
OP here....I'm seeing some good points on both sides of the use of deadly force in this instance but one thing I'm not seeing a lot of you take into account is the fact that the fat guy started pushing him to the point where the bald guy had NOWHERE left to retreat to. If you watch the video closely you can see the bald guy restraining from using force until he saw the wall behind him.
Guy was a drunk degenerate scumfuck that probably didn't even realize the dude he was backing into a corner even had a gun until his dumbass got shot in the stomach.
If he wanted to beat up defenseless people he should have tried his shit in some pussified liberal city and not a small southern town where people own guns and don't have to call big papa government every time they get a booboo on their knee.
In the end, another useless shithead is taken off the streets and life goes on. God bless America.
>>30193289
>Also in some jurisdictions you're only allowed to meet force with equal levels of force.
Not in America, or are you suggesting some little old granny must duke it out hand-to-hand with her 6'6" 350lb attacker simply because he's "only" using his fists on her?...
>>30193434
>You know carrying a CC in many states you are obligated to defend others
Even the fucking POLICE are not legally obligated to defend anyone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
The women were awakened by the sound of the back door being broken down by two men later identified as Marvin Kent and James Morse. The men entered Douglas' second floor room, where Kent forced Douglas to perform oral sex on him and Morse raped her.
Warren and Taliaferro heard Douglas' screams from the floor below. Warren called 9-1-1 and told the dispatcher that the house was being burglarized, and requested immediate assistance.
While there, they observed one policeman drive through the alley behind their house and proceed to the front of the residence without stopping, leaning out the window, or getting out of the car to check the back entrance of the house. A second officer apparently knocked on the door in front of the residence, but left when he received no answer. The three officers departed the scene at 0633, five minutes after they arrived.
For the next fourteen hours the captive women were raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon one another, and made to submit to the sexual demands of Kent and Morse.
Warren, Taliaferro, and Douglas brought the following claims of negligence against the District of Columbia and the Metropolitan Police Department
The Court explained that "[t]he duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists." The Court adopted the trial court's determination that no special relationship existed between the police and appellants, and therefore no specific legal duty existed between the police and the appellants.
>>30194403
don't even compare that.
911 told zim zam on the phone to NOT follow the kid and he followed him anyway. Zimzam thought it was suspicious that a black kid lived in his neighborhood. Trayvon didn't do anything until zimzam's too-crazy-for-police-academy-he-took-the-test-three-times ass got close enough for T. Martin to assault him.
Blue fat assaulted the clerk and a second person before he assaulted the firearms instructor. Zim zam had a history of being a fucker (strike one) and buying a product made by keltec (Strike 2). After that, he followed an unarmed kid home while he was on the phone with 911 who was telling him NOT TO FOLLOW THE KID.
That's way fucking different than a white gorilla beating on store clerks and customers in public on camera. Blue fat was a big guy who got fake-yeager backed into a corner and he didn't know what he was going to do to him. It's too bad he had to kill that giant idiot, but I can see how fake-yeager could have been in fear for his life or for the life of others.
>>30194690
I think its written like that to prevent lawsuit abuse.
I mean, you cant expect police to throw themselves into mortal danger to protect others, they have a right to self preservation too.
Logically, it would lead to arguements like "well the cop could have killed himself to meet the damands of the hostage taker for the cop to kill himself", or, "the cop could have crashed his car into the train to derail it, before it killed my son" etc...
>>30194690
can you imagine the kind of clusterfuck caused by the precedent if they ruled in the other way?
>>30193463
>posturing like a gorilla
Looks to me like he's just leaning to the side to get a good look at the license plate number.
>>30194690
So the police are shitty and the courts are corrupt
You know were all gonna die, right?
The choice to stay home and jack off for another day is more important to some then helping others
>>30194754
i'm legally in my rights to e shoot you now.
>>30194735
>you cant expect the police to put themselves in danger even though your taxes are used to employ these very people to help you in times of need
Weak bait
>>30194726
911 operators have told people to not have their guns out and gotten people killed. The 911 operator telling Zim zam not to follow is the same as any random stranger telling Zim zam what to do. It looks bad in court but not illegal and what Zim zam did wasn't illegal.
>>30194726
>don't even compare that.
(Different anon here) Except it's exactly like ZimZam and Baby TrayTray; following someone doesn't justify them physically attacking you, nor does looking at their license plate.
>>30194781
>implying police should be legally obligated to kill themselves against their own judgement of a situation
I can't tell who's baiting who.
>>30194735
>whoa bro i wanna be a cop and carry all the power with that position but in not gonna risk my life or anything in a difficult situation. Im just gonna do these easy stuff like shoot unarmed civilians and arrest people for weed peace
>>30194769
>So the police are shitty and the courts are corrupt
How can you legally compel someone to risk injury or death to protect you?
That would make them a slave.
Imagine if everyone hled their spaghetti in their pants and let an asshole get the fuck out of town.
that said, take the gun away from that cowboy, he's clearly itching to use his penis substitute at all costs.
Trayvon 2. White
>>30194827
They cease to have the freedom of not helping when there is clear and present danger to the civilian populous when they swore there oaths and took all the powers and responsibilities of the shield
>>30194861
now the baiting situation becomes more clear, thank you
>>30194838
No that makes them a public servant. The same way the military is overseas. They risk life and limb for their civilian populous of there state.
This is assuming were still talking about why the police and military originally existed for and not for the degeneracy they have now succumbed to
>>30194889
*country
>>30194861
>They cease to have the freedom of not helping when there is clear and present danger to the civilian populous
Which of course explains why all those cops who stood around for 20mins outside Columbine high school while shit was going down, were all prosecuted afterwards...
You are ON YOUR OWN, the cops don't have to do shit.
>>30194781
Yes, they are employed to help me in my time of need, but that does not mean they lost the basic human right of self preservation.
>>30194838
>Police dont need to protect
>Doctors dont need to save lives
>Parents dont need to take care of their kids
>Judges dont need to follow the Constitution
>Politicos dont need to listen to the people
Yeah man youre a fucking genius
>>30194924
Fuck the police and fuck what this country has become
Clowns
>>30194859
>trayvon 2: when white Hispanics attack
Ftfy
>>30194952
>Police dont need to protect
You can’t prosecute a cop for not taking a bullet for you
>Doctors dont need to save lives
You can’t prosecute a doctor for not risking an ebola infection
>Parents dont need to take care of their kids
You can’t prosecute a parent for not running into a burning house
>Judges dont need to follow the Constitution
>Politicos dont need to listen to the people
I can’t think of a similar situation where they’d be risking injury or death in the course of their jobs.
tl;dr You can’t prosecute someone for not dying for you.
>>30194971
>Fuck the police and fuck what this country has become
Would you become a cop if the law said you HAD to die for someone?
>>30192391
>we the people
>not we the pebole
>>30187812
>"""instructor"""
yet another example of how the carry faggots are going to fuck it up for everyone eventually
mouth breathing window lickers
>>30194747
Police would be liable for conducting a traffic stop instead of saving women being raped.
They would also be liable for ignoring the danger of a traffic infraction to go save some women who were supposedly being raped.
Hell, they would be legally required to stop every speeding vehicle and write summons instead of telling you to pick up that can.
>>30194889
>The same way the military is overseas.
Even the military can't order a solider to die.
>>30195423
>Even the military can't order a solider to die.
A marine on the other hand...
>>30190066
Bob Owens is the right wing version of a SJW.
>>30191425
>It's a... It's... It's... a... It's a meme!!!!!
>>30187812
Uh, duh?
>Mexican was obviously being a tool
>poked gun carrier in the chest
>gun dude goes to get plate #
>makes attempts to retread, literally backed into a corner
>shoots dumbass
>>30191722
It's Finnish.
>>30191866
Fuck off, yuro cunt.
>>30197178
Stop your escalating him.
>>30192377
>Wasting dubs
Die in a fire, faggit.
>>30192511
I wanna fuck her so bad.
>>30192598
Not your job to stop them. Defend yourself if need be. Other than that, get info and report to the fuzz. Imo, the bald guy did gud, but I second the anon you replied to, I would've taken pic from the doorway.
>>30197161
What the fuck did you just do around me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in escalators and eels, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on minority neighborhoods, and I have over 300 confirmed escalations. I am trained in psychological warfare and I’m the top license plate reporter in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will escalate you at speeds never before recorded, the heights of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, stair user. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the stratosphere, faggot. The heights will deprive you of the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking high, kid. I can be in any airport or mall, anytime, and I can escalate you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just by being around you. Not only am I extensively trained in powered escalating, but I have the ability to just be used as stairs, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to escalated upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re riding for free, you goddamn idiot. I will escalate shit all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo. I'm the escalator bitch.
Be american get shot.
Just another day in retarded murica
/Thread
>>30194726
You believe so many lies and distortions about zim zam and tray tray that I actually feel sorry for you.
>>30194971
>>30194936
>>30194889
>>30194861
>>30194835
If the police are obligated to save you, why don't you just hand in your guns to the government? Just hand them over, they're only a hobby. You don't want children dying for a hobby, do ya?
Oh wait, you have the right to own a gun? What for? To protect yourself? From whom? The police are here to protect you. I mean, they're OBLIGATED.
See? You don't NEED those big scary guns, now do you? That's right. Just take up a government approved hobby. Like gardening. And buying war bonds.
-On second thought, you don't really need that garden, either. We wouldn't want you to get the idea that you should be self reliant, would we? Why not stamp collecting, instead. Yes, just take these stamps and gently arrange them in the book. It's easy, clean, and safe.
Now, isn't that nice?
>
>
>
>
Fuck that. The idea that police have an obligation to protect you is Orwellian, statist, and paves the path toward tyranny. Why are you even here?
>>30191204
Gonna go to the mall and say this on the up escalator now.
>>30197298
>t. Yuro Cuck III
Your wife's Muslim bull wants you to fluff him so he can start training your daughter.
>>30194726
Found the nigress.
>>30194726
You literally don't have the balls to watch, completely, this video.
https://youtu.be/bF-Ax5E8EJc
>>30197372
you're an idiot.
The police keep the peace and enforce legislation by putting people before the court.
Chill out.
>>30191105
>hurr le europeens, amirite?
>>30191770
>don't throw chips at anyone or I'll fucking kill you
>>30193289
>Yet again this is why anti gun people hate us.
Nobody gives a fucking shit, kill yourself
>>30193289
> The instructors life was NOT IN DANGER WHEN HE SHOT.
He absolutely was in danger, as the Fat Guy was continuing to attack him even after he threatened to shoot the guy and he could have done anything to him at that point; pull a knife, pull a gun, bash him over the head with a bottle of wine, etc.
> Yet again this is why anti gun people hate us.
Anti-gun nuts are fundie religionists and will hate us no matter what.
There is no point where anti-gun fundies will ever say; “that’s enough gun control.”
>>30198674
>There is no point where anti-gun fundies will ever say; “that’s enough gun control.”
What about after a total ban?
>>30196902
Marines are never allowed to die, burial is merely the next stage if their special forces training. Once they are finished, the honored marines at the arlington burial academy will rise once more and defend our great nation as their oath has been sworn.
Semper Fi
>>30198963
Then the knives, then the forks, and finally... they come for our spoons.
>all of these "muh what ifs?!" and "could've done anything!"
Just as bad as the anti gun people who say owning an ar15 means you can do anything and go on a rampage.
Ignoring the fact that the instructor put himself in the situation at the moment of the shooting when he was being shoved to and fro his life was not in danger.
>but muh what ifs!
The what ifs didn't happen. He met shoving with lethal force. If you think that's a valid response the you're a fucking idiot.
>>30199019
not technically accurate
Marines are not to die without permission
should a Marine die he or she is to report immediately to mortuary affairs
said Marine will then be fitted with the proper uniform of the day to stand fire watch in heaven for all of eternity
an eternity on duty in dress blue alphas
that is the punishment of a Marine that died without permission
>tfw you in heaven, but a Marine on duty has no fiends...
>>30198963
>>There is no point where anti-gun fundies will ever say; “that’s enough gun control.”
>What about after a total ban?
You don’t really think they’ll stop when the guns are gone, do you?….
http://www.clarionproject.org/news/danish-girl-fends-rape-pepper-spray-may-be-fined
January 28, 2016
Denmark May Fine Girl for Pepper Spraying Rapist
A 17-year-old girl who was sexually attacked in Denmark may face charges herself after she used pepper spray against her assailant.
“It is illegal to possess and use pepper spray, so she will likely be charged for that,” said a local police spokesman in Sonderborg, where the attack took place.
After knocking the teenager to the ground and unbuttoning her pants, the victim was able to prevent being raped by pepper-spraying the man.
The man fled the scene and has yet to be arrested.
The Local reports “The case has sparked a backlash among some Danes who point to increasing reports of sexual harassment [by male asylum
seekers] in Sonderborg and other Danish cities at the same time that police say they are stretched too thin to properly carry out their duties.”
After the case was reported by the Danish news outlet TVS, a number of readers wrote in the comments sections that they would be willing to pay the girl’s fine, which is expected to be 500 kroner ($73).
>>30189985
This. Being a good witness is not escalating. But nobody had to get shot. Legally justified, but unnecessary.
>>30193289
>Shoving is not lethal force.
http://keyetv.com/news/local/man-dies-after-being-shoved-to-the-ground-outside-downtown-bar
http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/staten-island-man-arrested-cops-probe-girlfriend-death-article-1.2561066
http://alluae.ae/man-denies-causing-death-by-shoving-dubai-partygoer-in-the-chest/
>>30187812
That fucking image. Saved.
>>30194374
That's how my ex de-escalated our relationship.
>>30199046
You don't need spoons to eat your vegan soy mush, anon, why would oppose their banning?
>>30200432
I responsibly deescalated my pistol by depressing the trigger, thus decocking the hammer, and safely deployed the weapon into the face of my escalating friend and thus also deescalating his own out of control microaggressions towards my tweed jacket
