What went wrong? Korea played out pretty well
>>30177897
Fighting against guerilla fighters in their own homeland
Just like the American Revolution, Britain was a major power but a bunch of farmers with guns fought them off
>>30177897
I AIN'T NO SENATOR'S SON, NO!
>>30177897
>Vietnam level
>It ain't me starts playing
We weren't innit to winnit.
If the Americans had said: "go forth and conquer and claim this land and these women for your own", the war would have been over in a few months.
But they didnt, so no Americans had any motivation other than to just not get killed
Try to ask your question tomorrow when the memespewers are at school.
Korea was fought against the conventional forces of North Korea and China. Vietnam was fought against irregular forces. Also the South Korean government was far more popular with the Korean people. In Vietnam the U.S. had to ban elections because every poll showed that the communists would win by a landslide, there was pretty much no domestic support for the South Vietnamese government or American involvement.
Should have put more emphasis on Special Forces, considering that things like Project Delta, Project Pheonix, Mobile Guerilla Force (Mike Force) and other shit where SF advisors trained and worked with irregulars. It may have been dangerous as hell, but goddamn if it wasn't effective.
>yfw Montagnard irregulars were usually better trained and equipped than your average US grunt.
Pic related, Green Beret attached to MACV-SOG with his squad of irreulgars.
>>30177958
no the guerrilla influence isn't even the largest factor.
It was rather the policy of destroying the enemy rather than holding key positions and the inability to assault NVA supply depots in Cambodia.
>>30177945
>School tomorrow
>The sixth day of the sixth month of the two thousand and sixteenth year
i.e. Summer
>>30177897
North Vietnam wasn't the brutal regime that North Korea was, so there wasn't any moral incentive.
>>30177933
>it ain't me
>>30177897
Because in the Korean war we were fighting the North Koreans and protecting the South Koreans.
In Vietnam we were fighting the North Vietnamese and a good portion of the South Vietnamese and propping up a corrupt, incompetent government that didn't have the support of its people.
Also in Korea we actually invaded North Korea to put an end to the war, in Vietnam we went for containment rather than conquest so the North Vietnamese always had a safe harbor to retreat to.
>>30177936
>If the Americans had said: "go forth and conquer and claim this land and these women for your own",
PLEASE WHEN
>If I'm going to die for a word, that word better be Poontang
>>30177966
My uncle was a Green Beret who trained the Montagnards. He's still pissed that we abandoned them and no one gave a fuck. Now they live like second class citizens up in the mountains of Vietnam being regularly harassed by a government that hates them.
Hell we're selling the Vietnamese weapons now; but it never occurred to our ass clown of a President to even discuss the plight of the people we left behind. Politicians are scum.
>>30178057
I'm on a Vietnam Special Forces kick right now and have been reading a lot of books about Green Berets who fought in Vietnam. Every single one of them said how pissed off they were when the US abandoned Montagnards. They all said that the Montagnards were some of the most well disciplined and well-trained soldiers that they ever saw.
>>30177980
Even if they could have had more effective military victories, even invading the North, it would have been impossible to win. The Vietnamese people adamantly didn't want to be ruled by a pro Western regime, so even if the Americans could BTFO every communist force in the country, there would have been a revolution as soon as they left.
>>30177897
He KGB made the Anti War movement mainstream. Also corruption in our military and in the ARVN, Gorilla Warfare, Consripts, and he local population being commies and pinkos
>>30177958
>Vietnam was fought against irregular forces
>PAV
>Irregular
>>30178011
>Being this new
>>30178057
>>30178150
The US is kind of a shitty ally, historically. There's a lot of people we've abandoned to die on their own. I knew a former Green Beret who was training Kurds against Saddam way back when. Saddam pulled out the attack helos and started doing a number; the Berets were begging higher ups for either Stingers or for the USAF to swat the helos when they got the order to pull out instead.
>"They're all going to die if we leave"
>"Yes"
>"...Okay, sir, we'll stand by for the extraction helos"
>"We aren't sending any"
The Kurd response to "we have to leave" was "no you won't", and blowing up their vehicles.
They had to slip out at night and hoof it into Turkey, but the Kurds caught them at it and some shooting occurred where this guy caught a round in the back. So he was carried, hopped up on morphine, the whole way there.
They put him in a desk job but being a General's bitch drove him crazy so he got out and married into a Bulgarian wine growing family and runs one of their locations.
>>30177897
> Korea played out pretty well
The Korean War was a ultimately a defeat for the U.S. and the West, as despite our overwhelming military and economic superiority, Truman allowed over 36,000 Americans to get killed, (out of almost 180K total Allied deaths) only to end up right back at the starting line when it was over…
>>30178319
>tfw have always admired SOF since a young kid
>tfw have always thought about joining since middle school
>tfw biggest fear was always the possibility of being killed by a stupid Big Govt decision, since war is more of a business these days.
I mean shit, man. If you're going to do all this dangerous shit, you'd at least expect the people you're doing it for to have your back when they can.
>>30177897
>Korea played out pretty well
How's that 60 year Armistice holding up? Good?
>>30177897
in korea we actually took territory instead of focusing on bodycounts
>>30178388
>defeat
No
The Korean War was a stalemate, it started and ended with both sides in roughly the same place they started. Also remember that the north were the aggressors not the US backed south
>>30177897
There is no such thing as a war that played out well
>>30177966
>but goddamn if it wasn't effective.
Effective how?
MACV operations were so thoroughly infiltrated by enemy agents that in the span of two months at the start of 1968, their entire operation in the northern half of south vietnam (i.e. the half that matters) were destroyed by informers and double agents.
Arguably regular army was more effective than that whole shitshow which did absolutely nothing of note.
>>30178388
We're technically still in a vold war with them sincd we only signed an armistice and haven't gotten an official peace treaty made
>>30177897
>what went wrong
the same thing that happened in Iraq but with a news media that was far more against the war. we went in with no plan and no goal/endgame and left before securing a lasting solution.
end of the day the US military won every battle and the politicians fucked it up.
>>30179920
>end of the day the US military won every battle
>lost the first battle at Ia Drang
>>30177897
Read "Chickenhawk" by Robert Mason. Not only is it a good read, it sums up the whole affair for everyone involved.
>>30179920
>won every battle
No, no, no. Experienced Chinese veterans raped US noobs so hard with basic infiltration tactics that to this day they make excuses about "human wave attacks" aka local tactical superiority.
>>30178057
No they're not. At least not in recent years. The Vietnamese people had moved on. Their eyes are on the future. Not the past. Their population is more than 50% under 20 years old. Few lived through the American War. From the Viet perspective, the relatively short American War was not so bad compared to centuries of war with China and the French. The current government is Commie only in name and silly hats. The Viets has embraced capitalism wholeheartedly which is not surprising if you realized that they see the American War as a war of Indepedence instead of a war of ideology.
If you are American, go have a visit. Flights in the region are cheap. See for yourself how the Viet government and people treat a former enemy.
>>30181307
So they're basically Gook China in terms of being commie? Cuz they're still a bunch of commies with their own special snowflake brand of communism like the chinks
>>30182685
They're just as much commie as the US is democratic.
>>30180030
I guess this is why South Korea is still occupied by North Korea, right?
>>30182685
>still a bunch of commies
it is just straight up authoritarianism. don't get hung up on meaningless labels.
>>30181307
Do you want to hear about one of the biggest ironies of all time? Ho Chi Minh loved the US and its culture, in fact the US was the first country the Vietnamese communists came asking for support after the French bailed out.
>>30178057
>>30181307
>If you are American, go have a visit. Flights in the region are cheap. See for yourself how the Viet government and people treat a former enemy.
Yeah, sure if you're a tourist they're happy to take your money.
The Montangnards are still dirt poor, the growing wealth of Vietnam has not reached them and they are still 2nd class citizens. The lowland Vietnamese never liked the Montagnards even before they fought alongside the United States and that hasn't changed.
>>30180030
>Experienced Chinese veterans
Experienced against who? The Japs?, They kicked your ass right and left and slaughtered your civilians by the millions while Mao and his commie filth hid in the mountains.
The United States saved you from the Japs in WWII and that treacherous little shit Mao returned the favor by stabbing us in the back in order to preserve the psychotic regime of Kim Il Sung. The only reason you didn't get the shit slapped out of you is because Ike didn't want to start WWIII.
>>30183240
Mostly from the long civil war they had just wrapped up.
>>30177933
To this day I can't understand why people equate Bob Dylan with Vietnam.
>>30177897
It went well
taught the rest of the region the cost of being communist
Economically devastated Vietnam into reopening trade
Vietnam now loves us
>>30183240
we should have kept going
General Douglas MacArthur was based
Korea negotiated peace
Vietnam didn't
>>30183515
only on this board can something this stupid be posted in seriousness
>>30183567
The only downside was we put troops there
that was mistake
we should have just kept bombing them and limited troop involvement to SF
>>30177897
>Korea
>34k US troops killed
>Additional 140k UN/Allied troops killed
>Military stalemate that continues 63 years later
Yeah, worked out real good.
>>30177911
But the US won the guerrilla phase of the war.
The forces that conducted the spring 1975 offensive and took Saigon were purely conventional.
>>30183595
nice plan, maybe if the bombings or sf did anything useful in reality then you might have a point
oh wait they both did jack shit
The US had similar nebulous goals to Iraq with no real end game and forgot that the war was like 50% ideological and not just guns.
>>30177897
Because "le Vietcong may may" is fucking wrong. We were fighting not only an irregular force but also the NVA who were pretty well supplied and trained. They were also VERY experienced having just crushed the French.
Also, the south Vietnamese government we were supporting was hardly more than a puppet government. Even in South Vietnam there was massive support for the North Vietnamese cause.
Finally WE DID THE SAME GODDAMN THING as the French. We tried to make strongholds from which we could operate safely. But for every stronghold we fortified there was 99 percent of the surrounding land we didn't control. We tried using special forces like the Brits did in WW2, creating "boxes" deep in the enemy back country from which special forces could operate and train the local populace. But the local populace was unwilling to actually fight against the NVA. Then the boxes would get pressured and under supplied and the special forces would need to be pulled back.
Fighting a determined enemy, in their homeland, and only trying to continue French puppet governments in the area was never going to win us that war.
>>30178018
>Also in Korea we actually invaded North Korea to put an end to the war
No. The Chinese flooded over the border after UN forces took most of the North, and then the war was fought to a stalemate.
Try reading a book nigger.
>>30181307
Did you even read his post? He's talking about the Montangnards, who to this day are treated like dirt by the Viet.
>>30184375
>implying bombing didn't economically devastate them in the long run
>>30177897
American gov' t was afraid of the backlash of killing innocent civilians, just like in Afghanistan and Iraq. If you apply rules and diplomacy to war, you will lose every time. You have to kill every single enemy, or they come back, like roaches.
Kurtz had it right in Apocalypse Now.
>>30178388
Victory for us gooks though. I'm glad I live in rich utopia rather than under the rule of that fat fuck Jong Un.
>>30185033
>implying the bombings were a long play
nixon literally went on live TV and announced his plan to bomb the north vietnamese into submission for "peace with honor" and the north laughed it off
>>30185070
>missing the movie's point entirely
>>30178022
Never. We live in a post nuclear globalist world society where goodwill and PR matter more than military might.
Let's take 2 examples:
Russia
>strongman "macho" governance, annexes Crimea, puts down Chechnya uprising with swiftness, overwhelming force, and brutality. Allows soldiers to rape loot and torture as they please
>whole world hates them, trade barriers erected, people live in shit hole frozen poverty and drink shitty vodka/inject themselves with Krokodil until they die to escape the pain of being Russian
US
>pussyfoots around in the middle east with "muh hearts n minds" for 15 years+, restrictive ROE, regards good PR and looking squeaky clean as more important than actually winning the "war" and killing enemies
>still economic powerhouse, people sit at home watching big screen NASCAR with a delivery bucket of KFC and a 20 liter Coke being fat and happy on the proceeds of global trade because other countries don't view us as brutal butchers (or if they do they're too pussy to do anything about it for fear of losing out on our iPhones and medical equipment or whatever)
>>30183478
>Bob Dylan
>not knowing It Ain't Me is by the Fortunate Sons
>>30178260
>being this new
>>30177897
>>Korea played out pretty well
>no military victory
>country is split into two very hostile states
>constant threat of war potentially dragging in all the big regional players
If that's the definition of 'played out well', Vietnam dodged a bullet.
>>30177911
The American revolution was actually the opposite situation. The guerilla war in Vietnam was generally overhyped. The Vietcong where not an effective fighting force and their kill rates showed. They where more of a moral killer for US troops, the actual taking of cities was done by the regulars. The revolution 's actual army lost most of the battles it fought, the guerilla campaign is what defeated the British colonial army.
>>30183240
>treacherous little shit Mao
Mao was fighting against the US supported Guo Min Dang.
>>30188019
It's by Creedence clearwater revival and the SONG is called Fortunate son
>>30190905
We messed with the SV government.
After that we were hypocrites.
As far as the war. We won. We force the NV to the table. Got out and let the SV go to hell in a hand basket.
What we should have done is kept fighting in laos. We should have gone all out to support the hmongs.
Full air support, mercs, whatever we could. Even us troops if need be.
The hmongs were based. Not like the majority of sniveling South vietnamese
>>30190010
>They where more of a moral killer for US troops
They WERE more of a MORALE killer for US troops
Holy shit anon did you not graduate elementary school grammar?
