Polish Apaches
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http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/air-force/2016/04/22/poland-apache-helicopters-boeing-ah-64/83378302/
Considering their cost and that they're intended to replace Poland's Mi-24s do you think they're getting their money's worth?
>>30110751
Yes, the Apache is far better at shooting shit (far better optics, better cockpit design, IHADSS and all that, plus it can carry far more and far better guided missiles than the Hind) and all they're 'losing' is a largely useless troop carrying capacity. I'd say they're getting their money's worth.
>>30110751
>polish apaches
theres a joke about ejector seats in here somewhere
>>30110751
The closer we put Hellfire missiles to the Russian border the better IMO
>>30110751
>Considering their cost and that they're intended to replace Poland's Mi-24s do you think they're getting their money's worth?
No, but their can't buy Havoks or Hocums anyway. Apache is a best choice from Western machines.
>>30112353
What aboot the AH1? I mean the Marines/JP?KR still use it...
>>30112383
There is no reason to want an AH-1 if you can get an AH-64 and don't need naval ability.
And even then, Apache can do naval.
>>30112383
>I mean the Marines/JP?KR still use it...
So do the Iranians and Turks, what's the relevance?
>>30110751
Wait, are those even part of the contest? I thought it's SuperCobra vs eurofail vs turkshit.
>>30110751
>$66.6 million a piece
>armed with hellfires
Literally deal with the devil.
John Paul II would roll in his grave.
>>30111753
go on, i'm new here
>>30110751
Riding an Apache like that while firing my rifle would give me a full hardon.
>we keep taking the USSRs former "allies/buffer states"
>give them our technology and replace the Russians
is this why Russians hate us? because we stole their friends and all they're left with Belarus and Khazakstam?
>>30110751
Why not Tiger? Asia and Middle East buy more european weapon that Europe itself.
>>30112638
Our tech is better though.
Besides I'd love to see videos of Poles removing bortsch with Apaches.
I'd love to see Poland come up with a domestic design though.
>>30112684
Because it's shit for the role they want, and Eurocopter are pathetic at keeping anyone other than France (The only customer they ever quote availability numbers from) in supply with spare parts, while costing twice as much.
>>30112764
Apache removing anything other than ak armed mudnuts
Amerifat retrd
>>30112869
Hell, I was just fantasizing.
Besides, American equipment is better than all of the retrofitted ex-soviet equipment.
>>30110751
>do you think they're getting their money's worth?
I'm not sure Apaches have ever been in combat.
They operate perfectly fine if your enemy lives in a mud hut and you have total air superiority. We saw how well the fabled AH-1(something) did against a MANPAD. I fear the Apache might meet the same fate.
>>30112937
>I'm not sure Apaches have ever been in combat.
Then you're fucking retarded. They opened the war with Iraq by destroying a SAM and radar site, allowing the air war to start off in earnest. They took damage, but no losses.
>>30112764
>Poland come up with a domestic design
meme bait
>>30112511
They aren't buying Westland Apaches you daft cunt.
Not even close
They should just be negotiating with US to buy a thousands of two M1's from storage
Theres literally nothing an apache can do, that a tank can't do cheaper
>>30112764
It's more likely that poland will invade western europe to liberate them from the muslims
>>30113350
Poland currently has the largest military in Europe right now, they overtook Germany a few years back and Poland has some really good defense companies.
They deserve Apache but it might be a double edged sword when they use the tech to build a competitor, PZL is a very efficient aircraft manufacturer
>>30112970
This
The Apache saw a shit ton of combat in '91.
>>30112383
>I mean the Marines/JP?KR still use it
The Marines use them because they are special snowflakes, Japan and Korea use them because they can't afford to replace their whole fleet with Apaches.
>>30112638
>is this why Russians hate us? because we stole their friends and all they're left with Belarus and Khazakstam?
If by stole their friends you mean not allow them to reoccupy their neighbors (that joined NATO).
Poland has the fastest growing military in Europe and will likely have a mix of older Russian Equipment and western equipment for awhile.
One reason choosing the Apache over another design is parts commonality with U.S. equipment. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Poland has been ramping up foreign commitments. If your most powerful ally uses a certain piece of equipment and you use the same, it.means the two of you can swap spare parts, maintenance crews or even operators if necessary.
Despite all the nationalistic dick waving that goes on here, the difference between modern weapon systems is razor thin. Crew training and experience is the far more important factor.
Poland chose the AH-64 because it's most powerful ally, who is also who they are most likely to be fighting alongside, uses it. It's really that simple.
>>30113456
The Marines use them for the same reason. They've just been upgrading them over time. It's all they have money for.
>>30112638
We could have won Kazakstan if we funded more CIA shenanigans ala Ukraine.
And Belarus is strange, because they really wanna remain neutral.
>>30113500
AH-1Z's are new build.
>>30113616
New aircraft, same line. Incremental changes. So it's more of an upgrade than a new aircraft.
>>30113500
>>30113656
I believe it has significant parts commonality with the UH-1Y Venom so it actually isn't quite as autistic/snowflake as it seems at first glance.
I haven't seen anything to suggest either platform is bad so I'm betting they are happy with the decision. They have the Osprey too which is quite capable.
>>30114235
>I believe it has significant parts commonality with the UH-1Y Venom
And existing AH-1s. That's the entire point.
It's can carry the same number of weapons as the Apache, with the added bonus of "wingtip" pylons for AIM-9s, important as the Marines might actually have to use them to take down other helicopters or, as an absolute last ditch effort, marauding planes. Also a good deal thinner, because "carrier" based means limited space.
>>30112638
"friends", right
Russians are mostly angry they don't have the economical pull to keep a sphere of influence without using arms and fear to do so. Even the awful failure that is the EU is a better alternative for growing economies than allying with them, because Russia is a corrupt, inefficient hellhole that is too poor to do what it takes to fix itself.
>>30113500
Army helicopters are cheaper than Marine choppers
The marines will always be special snowflakes that overpay
>>30112869
>Apache removing anything other than ak armed mudnuts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMe-mk1Wg2k
boy doesn't that tank look familiar
>>30114677
That's just blatantly wrong. Take a look at the price of a new build AH-64D or E.
>>30112970
don't forget
>Panama 89
>Iraq 91
>Lebanon throughout the 90's
>Kosovo 99
>Lebanon 00
>Afghanistan since 01
>Iraq since 03
>Lebanon 04
>Palestine 06
>Egypt since 12
>Saudi Arabia since 14
>>30112764
one we will have enough cardboard for PL-01 army
>>30112638
it's because despite end of cold war American bases are getting closer to Moscow
>>30114874
>russia shits all over former pact allies, getting involved in internal affairs and threatening them with their military throughout the 90s and early 2000s
>former pact countries petition NATO to join for protection against Russia
>Russians mad as fuck that people actually join NATO and claim to be the victim
>>30114901
Don't forget invading one or two, but what is that among friends?
>>30114901
>us securing it's dominance all over the world=good
>russia securing it's borders=bad
>>30110751
as someone who is a former 15R and about to complete his schoolin for an A&P i am excited to see my baby has gone to another new land for me to visit as a contractor <3
>>30114981
>poor russia being bullied once again by evil west
>how dare they allow countries we bully to join their defense alliance?
>poor poor russia always being bullied by evil jew west ;_;
>>30114981
>why don't we secure our borders
>by scaring away potential allies with our cockwaving
As an aside, literally nobody wants to invade Russia.
It's worthless territory.
>>30110751
fuck i cant wait for the word of polish contracts to go work on apaches again, i have the weirdest fuckin boner.
>>30114981
Technically speaking? Yes. It's pretty nice being a US ally.
>>30115002
>cockwaving
US totally doesn't do that
The latest Apache has networking and advanced avionics. It's way better than the shitty MI-28.
>>30115117
>US totally doesn't do that
not really, no.
the US can dominate with economic force alone.
>>30115133
>Bay of pigs
>Sante Domingo
>Grenada
>Panama
US of A not bullying its neighbours
>>30115185
>toppling unpopular dictators(that the US helped install in the first place) and regimes that directly threat mainland US
>anything like Ruskie landgrabs and political subterfuge
>>30115219
keep living in your fantasy world amerifart
you and the russkies are two sides of the same coin
>>30114981
Oh boo fucking hoo vatnik. I cannot fathom why the Russians don't realize that decades of treating their neighbors like utter shit will make them hostile towards them, like they just expect that shit to just disappear.
>>30112638
>Friends
They were never friends, in as much as they were involved in very abusive relationships with the Russians in which the Russians treated them like absolute shit. A lot of Eastern Europe hate the everloving shit out of Russia for very legitimate reasons.
>>30115240
i'm actually from some random Latino country and i got family from over there, but whatever makes you happy yurocuck
>>30113337
>what is flight?
>>30115185
>Bay of Pigs
Kennedy pulled the plug on that one at the last minute, but I do wish the CIA would've gotten off of their incompetent asses and actually whacked Castro.
>The others mentioned
Small scale interventions where we did not stay long in the aftermath. We go in, then go home. The Russians like to stay and grab territory, we haven't done that in over a hundred years.
>>30115240
>Two sides of the same coin
In a way, you're right. Russian nationalism matches ours pretty well sometimes. Difference is that we came out on top for the most part. I'm not going to play the charade that we're benevolent angels who do no wrong (Oliver North and several others should hang for all that fuckery in Nicaragua) but at the same time, given how at the time the USSR and to a lesser extent Russia was making overtures at gaining influence all over the world, I see it as only prudent to counter it. Less so nowadays, but during the Cold War Communism was a verifiable threat to the world and deserved to go down as it did, I just wish that my government hadn't decided to go full retard with many of their anti-communism measures. No one understood how to get rid of Communism other than killing and regime change, I blame the CIA for a lot of that.
>>30115252
They hate the Soviet Union, Russia isnt the Soviet Union any more, its not even 1990s teir anymore, if you actually had russian friends youd know russia is completely different from the 90s, thet dont want eastern Europe as much as they used to they just want to secure their border cause their paranoid about being invaded again caus the same conditions that existed preww2 and pre operation barbarossa exist now. War is right around the corner and russia is trying to prevent it cause it may Suprise you but russia doesn't want war with anyone
>>30115270
have fun sucking circumcised cocks
>>30113350
Just watch. Austria will ultimately be the best welfare state to go to for gibbme refugees. In the year 2018, 15 million North African, Afghani, and yes some Syrian migrants converge on the city, to be subsequently repulsed by a 25-strong Polish Apache cavalry charge.
>>30115348
you forget your daily hormone treatment you degenerate muslim cocksock, you're an embarassment to our acestors
>>30115321
>Russia isn't the Soviet Union anymore
Then how come they idolize the shit out of it and make a lot of noise about bringing it back?
>if you actually had Russian friends
Don't tend to see too many in the states. Have a lot of Eastern European friends, they all hate Russia.
>Paranoid about being invaded again
You do realize that's the same reason Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe is re-arming right? To stop Russia from pulling that niggery bullshit again.
>Same conditions that existed pre-ww2
You're fucking joking right?
>Russia is trying to prevent war
>Russia doesn't want war with anyone
Then they need to seriously chill the fuck out because they chimp out over every last little goddamn thing their neighbors do
>hurr durr we're angry because you didn't respect/maintain Soviet monuments to glorious Soviet Liberators
>hurr durr Norway you suck because you made a TV show depicting Russia as the bad guys
>hurr durr Baltics you suck because you're not sucking our dicks (then the Russkies make noise about invading to protect "ethnic Russians")
>hurr durr Poland why you no friends anymore? Ignoring Katyn and all the times I fucked you over, we should be friends again
>Russia only wants peace, which is why we're eyeing all neighboring countries with Russian diaspora
Fuck Russia. There's no way in hell we'll let them have USSR levels of world influence, not after all the shit they did in the Cold War.
>>30115390
we didn't let them in so you could have some of arabic proteins
>>30115390
why do people talk like this on 4chan?
>>30111753
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50
>For improved pilot survivability the Ka-50 is fitted with a NPP Zvezda (transl. Star) K-37-800 ejection seat, which is a rare feature for a helicopter.[21] Before the rocket in the ejection seat deploys, the rotor blades are blown away by explosive charges in the rotor disc and the canopy is jettisoned.
Already accomplished
>>30115489
because our bantz is on a whole another level
>>30113456
>Japan can't afford AH-64
>3-4 largest economy in the world
>Poland can somehow afford the AH-64
>>30115427
Im not even going to bother, i bet youre all for tolerance and equality, except for Russians though cause theyre smelly and did bad things in the past, right? Everyone deserves rights and freedom and sovereignty, unless theyre russian, simoly being russian means you should be exterminated. My russian friends dont even have this much hate for other people like what the fuck is your problem
>>30113492
>Poland has the fastest growing military in Europe and will likely have a mix of older Russian Equipment and western equipment for awhile.
Poland is a cuck nation. They are being primed to be the sacrificial goat to spark off a major war with Russia, and will of course be destroyed and discarded.
Just like WW2.
When will the Pollaks learn?
>>30115507
Imagine if the charges for the propellers fail.
>Red mist everywhere.
>>30113492
Realistically thats unlikely, the west is more likely to leave Poland to the wolves
>>30113508
Belarus fucking hates Poland though. It's
more likely Poland will be duking it out with them than Russia
>>30115569
>assuming Polska will be anything like Ukraine.
What is Nato. What is muh catholic nation. What is a staunchly anti-russian populace. I don't think the Polish would allow a 4th partition.
>>30115580
based on?
>>30115569
They learned from 50 years of communism that they'd still rather take their chances with the West again than put up with a Russian 'alliance'
>>30115609
>allowing
>under ocupation
pick one
>>30115615
history, West didn't wanted to died for Poland back then, so after 70 years of cuckery they won't
>>30115321
>They hate the Soviet Union, Russia isnt the Soviet Union any more,
Nope, they hate Russia. Before soviet union, most of them (other than former austo-hungary states ) have been occupied, invaded or conquered and otherwise abused by the good old mother Russia.
Most of them treated USSR as Russia 2.0 , with new coat of red paint, but same old conquering imperialism gears spinning under the hood.
The new russia is hated not because its seen as as "USSR II - electric boogaloo" . Its hated because its seen as "Russia 3.0 - we still want to make you our bitch, all you other ungrateful slav bastards" edition.
>>30115609
Why would the Russians even want to occupy Poland?
Do you know anything about Russian foreign policy?
Poland is just nuisance because of the NATO facilities to support the US Army - the only real danger to Russia.
The Polish air force is a joke because all of the fighter squadrons operate out of 2 fixed airbases with the the only runways to support F-16s. Meaning that all it takes to take Poland out of the equation is a few dozen Iskander-Ms or cruise missiles to tear up the landing strips.
>>30115694
>US Army - the only real danger to Russia
>have 1000 nuclear warheads
>ABLOOBLOO I CAN'T FEEL SAFE
>implying the USA would bother at all with Russia if they didn't keep throwing temper tantrums to get attention
>>30115687
You're society will collapse before anything
>>30115713
The only reason Russia was not democracy'd with PGMs in the 90s (the time of their greatest weakness) is due to the nuclear arsenal. You know it to be true.
America is a hyperpower seeking to establish a globalist, mono-polar world order. These sovereign nations and peoples who don't want to fall under that are a nuisance that must be taught otherwise, either by laser guided democracy or economic subversion.
>>30113395
UK and France are still ahead
>>30115694
>Why would the Russians even want to occupy Poland?
Well, why would US want to attack russia?
Military planning is not based on "wants". Its based on capabilities to do something. Why else would russia be getting angry over US presence?
Therefore, poland has pretty good reason to want us troops on its soil, since having them there guarantees that US will instantly get drawn into any potential russian war against poland.
On the other hand, US presence in poland or baltics is not direct military threat to russia - there are too few of them for any offensive operations. Even in defensive, they would be curbstomped pretty quick, without much chane of mounting significant resistance.
Their only role is to guarantee that any russian bullshit attempt at waging quick victorious local local war will blow up into global conflict.
Real reason why russia gets so angry over their presence is because they take away classic diplomatic arguments russia loves : "do what we want, or else! " out of the equation.
Schoolyard bully is never happy when somebody bigger and uglier than him is anywhere around.
>>30115744
Why do you claim that i am society, my russian friend?
>>30115875
>Well, why would US want to attack russia?
Not attack, but isolate and subjugate. The Great Game is very much alive.
These days, America does that by installing democracies, which inevitably end up being America-friendly, because political parties and candidates can be bought (like Hillary Clinton, or Ted Cruz).
>>30115569
That's why there's a 10,000 man NATO exercise there right now, right?
>>30115642
This, unfortunately. Do you guys honestly think Germany will send forces? No. Russia hits eastern NATO and a whole slew of countries would shirk their responsibility, some would outright drop out, leaving USA desperately trying to establish logistics.
Thise that do fight will back out when they take heavy losses save for UK, USA and france, and anybody left that tries to draft it's populatiin and cut social services to pay for war is going to implode
France might send a token SF unit
>>30112638
I wonder if Russians ever think about why everyone hates them
>>30115305
America has no "nationalism"
because America is not a Nation
>>30116047
Germany never does anything so that's not a surprise
the rest of NATO will send small forces to plug holes and shit countries like Turkey will take advantage of the situation to swing above their weight, all in all, still a formidable force for Russia to face, and one they're going to end up fighting in more fronts than they wish to.
>>30115908
Name one america friendly democracy
>>30115569
you do realize that
a.) after 50 years of communism they have all the motivation in the world to prevent that
b.) are a country that we'll actually go to war for (sorry Ukraine we'll liberate you if anything happens)
c.) have more tanks than France, England and Germany combined
>>30115642
US government was run by closet commies back in 45, thats why nothing happened with the USSR
All democrats are closet commies, less closet nowadays actually.
>>30116090
South Korea
Japan
Taiwan
Thailand
Poland
Baltics
Norway
all of NATO
etc etc
itt: Commies/Vatniks/Slavaboos btfo
glorious, I love when we unite like this
>>30116138
this
>>30116051
They probably do. But then the vodka makes it all go away.
>>30116087
>Implying a shitton of other lesser NATO allies will lift a finger and send expeditionary forces.
Western europe is quickly becoming internally unstable and most of them are incapable of waging large scale war, and turkshits arr inundated with outdated equipment and a lack of body armor
>>30116221
>implying we just won't glass Moscow if they try to touch NATO
>tfw no more roaches to bother Europe
>all thats left is the middle east
>>30116091
>after 50 years of communism they have all the motivation in the world to prevent that
Dumb argument because Russia is not a communist country and it does not have any territorial claims with Poland.
>are a country that we'll actually go to war for
Says who, you?
Forgive me if I tell you to fuck off.
>have more tanks than France, England and Germany combined
That's only because the NATO frontier against Russia has shifted east from Germany to Poland.
So Poland now has to pay for an expensive land force and fleet of tanks while Germans can pursue their dreams of importing niggers and Muslims to fuck their women at leisure. Win-win.
>>30116087
Excluding US and UK, Turkey is probably the most reliable allay in NATO that Poland and Baltics can count on. Now the Germans won't do shit, Italians will play politics and French will screw over everyone just to make themselves look important.
>>30114779
In FY2017 a new AH-1Z is $32 mil.
In FY2017 a remanufactured AH-64E was $21 mil.
In FY2015 a new AH-64E was $35.5 mil.
>>30116020
>A Stryker brigade
Lol, that might work in a sand nigger policing scenario like Iraq of A-stan, but the war in the Donbas has shown that lightly armored mechanized forces are extremely vulnerable to artillery with submunitions.
We all remember images of the destroyed Ukrainian columns.
How resistant are Strykers to top-attack EFPs?
>>30116319
>Turks fighting on European soil on behalf of Poland
LOL, no Slav would ever ally with a Turk or let their men on their own soil, without first putting them through a wooden stake.
What kind of fantasy world do you live in?
>>30116291
>Dumb argument because Russia is not a communist country and it does not have any territorial claims with Poland
forgive me gommisar, I meant they're not going willingfully give up land. they're motivated to prevent an occupation.
>Says who, you?
>Forgive me if I tell you to fuck off.
the country who embaraased you in 1991, the same coumtry that Putin is obssessed about Ivan
>So Poland now has to pay for an expensive land force and fleet of tanks while Germans can pursue their dreams of importing niggers and Muslims to fuck their women at leisure. Win-win
>implying Russia doesn't have the economy the size of Spain
you potatoniggers can't even afford to touch NATO, all you can do is rattle your sabre and be the laughing stock of a has been nation that no one respects or fears
>>30113337
>They should just be negotiating with US to buy a thousands of two M1's from storage
>Theres literally nothing an apache can do, that a tank can't do cheaper
lmao
Polish Army already has a lot of Leo 2s, why buy used fuel guzzlers whose engines need maintenance every 4 hours, that require different parts and ammo? Can't think of worse way of spending the money, which could better be spent for for AA defense, fighter jets, Leo2s or these apaches. Anything, but overpriced, expensive to maintain tanks from the other side of the globe that require parts and ammo incompatible with the tanks that polish military already has.
>>30116349
A) Turks don't need to come to Poland to fight Russians
B) One would think Poles learned from their history and if they find themselves in a situation where western Europeans are once again making them play speed bump for the Russians that they would accept any help offered.
>>30116291
The whole point of stationing a token force in Eastern Europe is that if shit goes down, some Americans die.
The couple thousand guys in the Baltics have zero chance of holding back a potential Russian attack, their job is to die and make it politically unacceptable for Congress to refuse involvement.
That was the case for the Berlin garrison during the cold war, and it's the case for the guys in Eastern Europe right now.
>>30115642
>history, West didn't wanted to died for Poland back then, so after 70 years of cuckery they won't
I like how you are inadvertently admitting that Russia is the same imperialist existence as it was in 1939.
Meanwhile the 'West', which didn't exist as a thing in 1939, has troops in Poland as we speak.
>>30116324
Yes, those numbers agree with me.
>>30115642
NATO has 10k soldiers training together in Poland as we speak. keep thinking we won't glass Moscow to protect out allies.
>>30116327
>How resistant are Strykers to top-attack EFPs?
Not very, but cluster artillery is not EFPs.
>>30115755
You are projecting Russia's rational for its behavior in Ukraine.
>>30116327
>We all remember images of the destroyed Ukrainian columns.
Yes, we remember Russia firing Grad's over the border into Ukrainian camps in a combat zone smaller than the range of Grad's.
>>30116327
>A Stryker brigade
You might want to doublecheck your sources.
>>30116365
>whose engines need maintenance every 4 hours
We are not talking about Poland's T-72 fleet.
>>30115755
Nigga no.
India has a much bigger economy, and they had no nukes back then.
The burgers only fuck with really, really stupid people.
>>30116551
give it a few years anon, they're eventually gonna have all Leos
>>30116571
Considering there are no more used Leo's up for sale, and Poland has expressed interest in Abrams, I doubt it.
>tfw blessed enough to not be born as a Russian
stop being jealous of us, stop complaining about the west, turn your country into something good you fucks. the largest country in the world at this point is a shitheap, what does that say about your people.
>>30116594
>dual Leo/Abrams armored force
muh dick
>no more leos up for sale
there will be when Germanys cuck prime minister puts them out on a yard sale to stop offending kebabs
>>30116327
> the war in the Donbas has shown that lightly armored mechanized forces are extremely vulnerable to artillery with submunitions
And artillery is only able to operate with that much impunity when you're not having to worry about meaningful CB, or dealing with shit tier air dominance and recon assets.
Of course you can always try depth-fire, but better hope your own recon is on the fucking ball or you're only going to inconvenience some farmer pigfuck's plough next time he goes to turn the soil over.
>>30115569
1 ruble was deposited to your account
>>30116594
The idea for 50 year base leases in exchange for tanks/GWOT left overs has been discussed. The idea is that the US/French would have a joint base near the Lithuanian/Polish border as a tripwire force in between Kalingrad and Belarus. Other base would be Naval Refueling stations and even stationing a Tank Brigade and Infantry regiments.
>>30116614
My understanding was that Germany has 225 Leo 2A6's and 20 2A7's left with another 100 2A4's still in storage that it intends to reactivate and modernize.
>>30116551
of course we weren't, I was talking about leo2s, PT-91s aren't really on par with M1A1s or Leo2s, but since you mention it, I'm pretty sure S-12U engines are modern produced in Poland (thus cheaper) and one of the more durable tank engines, surely more durable than M1's turbine engines.
The few not modernized T-72s Polish military has are already junk anyway, irrevelant in polish armored forces.
>>30116685
>I was talking about leo2s
I didn't realize MTU engines need maintenance every 4 hours.
>>30112638
If they were friends they wouldn't leave Russia.
Also
>Poland
>Friends of Russia
>>30116614
Germany has less than 300 tanks left active and in reserve.
Poland wants more than that many tanks, even if Germany liquidates every tank it has, Poland wants more than that.
The only supply of reasonable priced non-slavshit tanks left is the US's vast stocks of Abrams.
>>30116696
About leo2s compared to M1s, at no point I mentioned T-72s in that post, with M1s being the ones requiring more maintenance and different parts than leo2s.
>>30116714
where will Poland get that many Hussar wings to put on all those tanks?
>>30115579
nah. as long as the rotor blade doesn't get you in the head. It is likely to hit the seat first. which means you will just get knocked sides ways.
>>30112638
Anon, russia doesn't have any friends. Well, aside from "ethnic russian minorities"
>>30116735
kind of pissed off that Poland doesnt paint hussar wings on them
>>30116701
I use the term friend loosely. The Peoples Republic of Poland was nothing more then a bufferstate to the USSR
>>30114681
America kicking these poor nations' asses is like painful to watch.
Almost feel sorry for the mudshits.
>>30116857
they do, albeit small decals.
>Polish Leo in front of the Chally, Hussar emblem is on the side of the turret
>>30116733
>M1s being the ones requiring more maintenance...than leo2s
Do they? 4 hours of use before maintenance is needed is a fairly significant claim.
>>30116733
>T72s, Polish mutant T72s, Leopard 2s and Abrums all in one army
>>30116974
maybe 2 hrs of maintenance every 8 hrs of use, don't remember the exact ratio, so I won't try to mislead you, however turbine engines are anything but cheap and easy to operate, much worse in that respect than piston engines.
>>30117025
Poland intends to retire its old T-72M1's, which will leave it with ~250 Leopard 2's and ~230 PT-91's.
>>30117087
>I won't try to mislead you but I will continue to talk out of my ass
>>30116756
>Just get knocked sideways
Yeah, because nothing will smashed or shredded.
>>30117089
Yeah I was just saw hat on wikipedia right now.
If we were only talking ground units, no air force, do you think Poland would win against anyone in Europe (except Russia) in a 1v1 fight?
>>30117173
Poland is on the same level of strength as the UK, France or Germany. I do think they are the strongest on the ground, but not by a significant margin.
>>30117223
Yeah I was thinking a similar thing myself.
Based on my skimming a wikipedia page, they look like they are SEVERELY lacking when it comes to their air force compared to Britain and France.
>>30117173
I figure they could take anyone on the mainland bar France and Russia on the open field. Note that excludes the UK. They have a significantly larger army than anyone else. Their air force isn't up to scratch, but their ground superiority is crushing. Most countries don't have the sort of strength, training, or weapons to conduct SEAD anyways.
>>30117109
Turbine engines requiring more time and $ (parts, fuel, labor, logistics) than piston engines is a fact, not an asspull. That's the point, I'm not going to spoonfeed you the details of AGT1500's maintenance schedule.
>>30117397
>I'm not going to spoonfeed you the details of AGT1500's maintenance schedule
Because you either 1) don't have them or 2) have those ones based on 30 year old engines that are worn out.
>>30117173
I think Poland can deffinetly hold their own against anyone in Europe (bar Russia and England)
its cool to see how they went from being our enemies in the cold war to becoming one of our most reliable and motivated allies
>>30115558
>3rd or 4th largest economy
>Has a constitutional hard cap on how much of their GDP can be used on Self Defense Force
>Currently developing their own 5th gen fighter
>Currently developing their own MBT
>Currently replacing many of their obsolete navy ships
Sure its a lot of money sitting around to replace helicopters that aren't that old.
>>30116426
And its the case for marines at okinawa now
Or the pacific fleet at pearl harbor in 1941
Or Fort Sumpter
>>30117453
I had read what's the running/maintenance ratio, it wasn't mentioned how much the engine was worn out. I can't find any sources now, so I won't subject you to unconfirmed data. I'm unwilling to put words in your mouth, so my question is: Do you agree that turbine engines are a bigger hassle to operate, because of bigger costs and requirement of parts incompatible with the other tanks in a military's disposal? It seems like you're trying to prove that M1s are a sound investment for a military that could buy (more) leo2s, upgrade it's already owned ones or invest in air defence.
What makes these engines infeasible is not the maintenance time and frequency itself, but the costs and logistics issues (having to supply separate set of parts for leo2s and m1s, training crews to operate two different tanks).
Depends what will be the cost to buy used M1A2's from the US
Whether the US will give them something of a discount
Gonna be less than new leopard 2's
>>30118039
Do export Abrams have DU armour? They´d probably havr to take the DU armour out if its possible beofre they sell them to Poland if thats the case.
It would be cool to see if POland bought thousands of old M60s and occupied eastern ruope and russia by zerg rusing them.
>>30118376
jesus christ I made a lot of typos.
>>30116355
Gosh, you're an insufferable idiot.
You're arguing with a Pollak, calling me a Russian. You're too fucking dim to even use memespeak and /int/ cliches correctly. Off yourself.
>>30110751
Absolutely. I've talked to someone who worked with the poles in the middle east, and they said that the Hinds that they field are junk.
>>30117130
helicopter pilot seats are armored.
>>30115569
>kokokokoko
>>30115687
>The new russia is hated not because its seen as as "USSR II - electric boogaloo" . Its hated because its seen as "Russia 3.0 - we still want to make you our bitch, all you other ungrateful slav bastards" edition.
This is one of the best descriptions I've heard about Russia
>>30117751
>I can't find any sources now
Thank you for acknowledging you were talking out of your ass.
>>30118376
>Do export Abrams have DU armour?
Is Poland ok with using DU armor? No export Abrams currently use it because either the buyer didn't want DU (Australia) or it wasn't offered (middle east).
Note that the armor package Australia uses is different than Egypt, Iraq etc.
>>30121044
>turbine engines are more durable and less expensive to operate than piston engines
>i don't know shit about the subject and have no arguments, evidence or sources to the contrary, but I will still try to argue
Do you know how much maintenance AGTs require? [spoiler]More than the piston engines[/spoiler]
You are wrong, you 'arguments' boil down to
>wher is proofs
>sauce
while you presented none. I needn't to know the exact running/maintenance time ratio for M1's engine to safely claim that its engine is more expensive in operation, nor I need to explain myself to someone with intellect of an amoeba, who can't acknowledge widely known facts.
>>30121763
>prove me wrong
Fascinating.
>>30121885
>better buy a thousand or two worn out 30 yrs old surplus tanks than *anything* else
>prove me wrong
it's as if making some research on your own and sharing your findings proving your point rather than asking for proofs would hurt you
Ay yo hol up America, we do want to get our clay back at one point. Giving Poland all this stuff will only make it harder.
>>30113508
>We could have won Kazakstan if we funded more CIA shenanigans ala Ukraine.
You did it just recently. It was quashed in record time though.
Anyway its practically impossible unless you find some way to remove the large ethnic Russian minority in there who dominate every aspect of Kazakh activities. The elite are also if not ethnic Russian, staunchly pro-Russia.
Daily reminder Nazarbayev is the one pushing for a more Soviet-like Union with the Customs Union.
>>30113456
>>30113500
is there even a navalized apache
>>30117578
Japan just came out with a new MBT why would they build another?
>>30119025
>getting this flustered
euthanize yourself slavaboo cuck
>>30115609
there was also polish military alliance with GB and France in WW2. turned out great, right. as a pollack, personally i think only america fuck yeah could save us from the russkies. other participants wouldn't do shit. would obama go to war with russia over poland? would trump? or would they try to "defuse" the situation?
>>30123134
its hard to imagine us going to war with Russia, but I mean Poland is an actual member of NATO (sorry baltics) and if Putin threatened for clay with nooks we would most likely respond with force
>>30115875
>since having them there guarantees that US will instantly get drawn into any potential russian war against poland.
nuh-uh. If Poland starts shit Russia gets free reign to kick their face in. No annexation business though but its highly unlikely they'll go there from a punitive campaign.
>>30116404
>A) Turks don't need to come to Poland to fight Russians
Launching attacks from Turkey's soil is bad. As in Turkish cities would get Operation Allied Force treatment. You have a big army, yes? We're just going to blow away your outdated F-16s then bomb at our leisure NATO-style.
I'm sure NATO won't mind as long as the end of the day Turkey is still a part of NATO.
>>30123285
>if Poland starts shit
>in 2016, as a member of NATO
RT/Pravda pls go
>>30121912
You made a claim and have done everything you can to avoid evidencing it after being called out.
>>30123134
why would russia be invading poland lol?
Perhaps you are unaware that it was the US who promised eastern yurop to USSR in 45?
>>30122814
>is there even a navalized apache
Technically yes, but nobody bought it.
>>30124026
Isn't the Westland Apache somewhat navalized?
>>30122972
>I'm a Slav
>Calls me a Slav fanboy
Fucking idiot.
>>30123718
>that it was the US who promised eastern yurop to USSR in 45?
>promised
Do tell.
>>30124277
yeah I'm the idiot, you vatnik fanboy
>>30122814
>>30124026
>>30124210
> Important deviations made by AgustaWestland from the U.S. Apache variants include changing to more powerful Rolls-Royce engines, and the addition of a folding blade assembly for use on naval ships.
So yeah there is in effect, even if it hasn't been offered directly to the market I'm sure if someone friendly wanted some it could be.
>>30124561
But you can fold blades on the US apaches too
>>30116349
>What kind of fantasy world do you live in?
Not your 'muh slav pride xD' meme-imagination, that's for sure.
>>30124434
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_Conference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Conference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Keelhaul
>>30123718
Here is your(you)idiot
>>30112638
>be Poland, largely agrarian economy that wasn't even that productive anyways
>hate nazis during ww2
>powerless to do anything useful
>"liberated" by USSR
>resist any and all forms of change and investment
>has to get subsidized food just to be able to afford it (and those subsidies are based on loans from the west)
>USSR falls
>Poland now has the freedom to clean toilets without any collectivization efforts getting in the way to force them into heavy industry
>Poland's true destiny is achieved and they are now one with porcelain, Drano, and the plunger.
>>30126072
>vatnik, the post
>>30125551
None of which did what you say.
>>30126080
>criticizes soviet "liberation" propaganda, collectivization schemes, and soviet era subsidies as an unsustainable economic policy
>I get called a vatnik
Poland didn't need the heavy industry meme of the Soviets, but they certainly were never better off on their own. When they are they get bullied economically or militarily by others. All those decades of resistance and fighting got them where they are now. Just look at the Czech Republic. it has 1/4 the population and almost 1.5 times the GDP. Romania has half the population and 70% of the GDP of Poland. Poland could have used all the help it could get.
Actually, come to think of it... if the west had liberated Poland we might have decades more advanced toilet technology instead of useless soviet bloc apartments and unfinished monument buildings.
>>30126072
>>30126250
hold on I have one for the vatniks
>be Russia, 1939
>allied with our homies Germany, divide Poland because still assblasted over 1920
>look at Finland for clay, proceed to get spanked
>cyka blyaat
fast forward to 1945
>at last eternal victory for the glorious people of Russia, the west will have to bow to us
>have to divide Berlin with those capitalist swine
>wait why do you all keep leaving us, what do you mean you don't like being oppressed?
>fine we didn't want you anyways, BUILD WALL
>assemble shitheap tier space program to show up those fancy car and successful Americans
>over indulge and waste a fuckton of money on dead cosmonauts
>cyka blyaat
>revolutions in Czechoslovakia and Hungary
>wait why do you guys mean you don't want oppressive governments?
>whatever we wanted to test our forces anyways
>meanwhile economy is shit, citizens live like africans
>invade Afghanistan because why not lol
>proceed to get whipped with stinger missiles
>cyka blyaat
>economy is still Africa tier
>I am now one with the food line
proceed to 1991
>what do you mean you guys don't want an oppressive government?
>whatever we didn't want you guys anyways
>civil war brakes out immidietly, courtesy of that bydlo Yeltsin
>rebellion in Chechnya
>what do you mean you guys don't want an oppresive government
>whatever we wanted to test our forces anyways, prepare to bow down to the might of mother Russia!
>proceed to get spanked
>cyka blyaat
>economy not getting any better
>still am of being one with food line
proceed to 2000s
>former Warsaw Pact member being scooped up by NATO and start using western equipmemt and technology
>what do you guys mean you don't want an oppresive ally
>whatever we didn't wanna share our tanks anyway, more for us
>am left with diligent based Belarus
>cyka blyaat
>what do you mean none of you guys care about my demands?
>what do you mean you're not scared of me
>hey who are you telling to shut up
>>30126470
>y-y-you better not station troops and missle shields in Poland, America
>pls stop can't into economy
>economy is the size of spain
>cyka blyaat food line is as Russian as Papa Kalashnikov and turnip
>fuck I have no respect anymore, I'll invade hohol clay and show those fascists who's boss
>ha! we got Crimea we are of superpower!
>cyka bkyaat we shot down a plane
>OK were done here bye I have Syrian clay to see
>see look at brave Russia fighting CIAISIS we are of diligent defenders of the free people
>why does noone like me anymore
>>30126470
>Using superior modernized NATO equipment as a sole encompassing measure of success while your economy is literally in the shitter
>this is what westaboos actually believe
Shoulda accepted an alliance with Hitler when he offered it for 6 fucking years
>>30126716
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Russia/United-States/Economy
you sure showed me, Russia knows a lot about maintaing an economy. pretty sure Poland/Czech Republic/Hungary/Baltics stand with us because were superior.
>westaboo
youtried.jpg
>>30126760
>>30126509
>>30126470
>strawman "Russia is a great country" and vatnik arguments
wew lad. Projection much?
Poland is better off without Russia now. They should have picked a side before ww2 and they didn't, they paid the price and were forever butthurt about it.
Russians dislike Poland because they finally had a chance with them in the Soviet era to make something of themselves only to be happily shit on in the EU. The other bloc nations were much more cooperative and were able to make a much better position for themselves during and after soviet occupation. Also the subject of Russia is pretty polarizing so people end up either best buds or hating Russia and Russia, in return ends up likewise.
>>30127122
>Russians dislike Poland because they finally had a chance with them in the Soviet era to make something of themselves
That is some impressive revisionist history.
>>30127237
Russia fucked them over taking even more land for them and giving shit reparations over it, meanwhile the DDR was living the life.. Why do you think that is?
>>30127122
>Russians dislike Poland because they finally had a chance with them in the Soviet era to make something of themselves only to be happily shit on in the EU.
I don't think Poles wanted anything to do with the USSR and just wanted to gtfo. They viewed/view Russians as a cancer
>>30127261
>DDR was living the life
debateable
>>30127279
Compared to Poland it was. They had the highest standard of living in the soviet sphere. The point is that the countries that cooperated more in the USSR are better off now even after leaving. During that time those countries had better investments and standards of living both during and after.
Considering the whole point of the Apache is to crack open as many T-72 as possible, and that the main military threat to Poland right now is Russia, it kinda makes sense, considering the alternatives:
>domestic helicopter is ridiculously expensive and pointless
>Tiger is still not working as intended and not even available for mass production
>Russia will obviously not sell them Mi-28s or KA-50/2s
>Mangustas from the Turks lol
>Cobra is an evolutionary dead end at this point
>>30127310
>They had the highest standard of living in the soviet sphere
that was Estonia
>>30127310
>>30127261
>DDR
East Germany? That part of Germany is still an economic black hole.
>>30127372
And still better off than Poland :^).
>>30123718
Polish cause was lost when: a) Warsaw uprising failed and commies got to install their puppet government when they "liberated" us, it was a last ditch effort to not end up as commie slaves, all those lives lost for fucking politics; b) pleas of our government-in-exile in GB were ignored, though by whose decision exactly, I dunno. I guess US didn't oppose Stalin, but when a) happened, there wasn't much to opose anyway. To the victor go the spoils.
>>30127431
their jewish puppet government*
>>30115630
The same West that betrayed them and left them to be under the yoke of the Soviets?
>>30127547
>.10 ruble desposited into your account
>>30127431
You guys are lucky you got as much as you did after WW2. The Soviets gave you a better deal in the peace than you had any right in getting. Not saying that everything was great, but better than it was ever likely to be.
>>30127401
Only when you combine it with the rest of Germany.
>>30127615
>you should be grateful we only reamed your asshole with a cactus
And you still wonder why everyone hates Russia.
>>30127667
I'm not saying the Soviets were nice, I'm just saying that it surprised everyone that Poland actually gained some territory. The Soviets keeping everything they took was to be expected, but Poland gaining German territory up to the Oder-Nesser line was a massive surprise. The expected outcome was Poland losing the territory claimed by Russia and gaining nothing at all. Not saying it makes the Russians angels, but just that the outcome was unexpected.
>>30127731
NO RUSSIA IS 100% ALWAYS BAD
-t AIDF
>>30115755
You say that like it's a bad thing.
>just try and stop us
>>30127775
A graph showing use of words after they were popularized?
>>30127775
>Russia is a gud boy because it gives you a kiss after reaming your asshole with a cactus
>>30115567
whole ruling class of russia deserves a lifetime in gulag. regular folk are bros, especially when there is vodka at hand. fuck fsb, fuck gru and fuck gazprom.
>>30127731
It's not a surprise at all, and it's not "nice".
The idea was to remove Prussia from Germany. The Soviets took the part they split with the Nazis in 1939 and gave it to the Ukrainian SSR.
If the Soviets could annex the eastern part of Germany, they would, but it's awkward politics and administration wise. So they gave it to Poland to not appear as imperialistic for keeping eastern Poland. Anti-Imperialism was a big Soviet platform.
Warsaw was made the capital because it was in the geographic center of Poland, and it isn't anymore.
>>30126072
>>30127615
Lucky? Anon, we had most of our intelligentsia killed. Most the officers, scientists, thinkers, leaders. Basically only workers and farmers were left. In the '50-'70 we were Soviet resource bitch, nothing more. Government wouldn't shit without Moscow's approval. People got disappeared left and right. In late '70 we've got a few years of genuine idustrial development and better standards of living, but this was stupidly financed by so much debt that our economy imploded, Venezuela-style. We got better, i.e. back to usual oppression. Then we got martial state where we couldn't shit without government approval. I may be naive, but I want to believe that Jaruzelski did that because he really feared Soviets would intervene and we would become part of Mother Russia. You know why democracy was brought by workers' strikes? Why we had a bumbling electrician for president? Nazis and Soviets killed everyone else that could lead us. In my opinion this and half a century of communism deeply affected our culture and is the reason why all our politicians are corrupt motherfuckers and why most older people just want to fuck eachother over - that's what everyone did during PRL to live. I think we would be far better off if we cooperated with Hitler, got turned into another Vichy and then spread our asscheeks for Stalin and smiled. Bleeding out in a war we couldn't win, rattling our sabre at Hitler then trying to oppose commie rule was idiotic.
Other Soviet states were lucky, because they cooperated more. So they could do their things. We were, historically, troublemakers for Germany and Russia, so we got extra oppression and anal rape.
I think the people that remember communism need to be replaced by a new generation that doesn't before Poland gets anywhere near sane territory.
My opinion is not popular though.
>>30128096
Compared to how you could have gotten even further fucked, yes, lucky.
>>30128278
The entire Bloc stagnated during the late 70's and 80's because the USSR was stagnating. Czechoslovakia is the exception rather than the rule because they were the most industrialized nation of the lot before the Iron Curtain fell.
The more reliant a country was on Soviet assistance, the harder the 80's were for them.
The late 70's/80's was also when the Asian countries began their development in earnest. Whatever global investment that might have gone to the Bloc nations went to Asia instead.
>>30128309
>Czechoslovakia is the exception rather than the rule because they were the most industrialized nation of the lot before the Iron Curtain fell.
Hmm I wonder why.
>After the February 1948 Czechoslovakia was firmly set into the Soviet sphere of influence and the motto Se Sovětským svazem na věčné časy! (With Soviet Union forever!) represented the essence of the communist's policy. Inevitably Czechoslovakia became another Soviet satellite and any mark of disloyalty was bitterly suppressed in political trials under supervision of Soviet advisors (e.g. Slánský trial). Czechoslovakia was also constituent member of many Soviet-led international organisations, most notably the economic organization Comecon (1949-1991) and the military organization Warsaw Pact (1955–1991).
>In two following decades Czechoslovakia was the most faithful Soviet's ally in the Central Europe. While the pro-soviet regimes in other states of Eastern Bloc, such as East Germany, Poland or Hungary underwent deep crisis after Stalin's death and later Khrushchev's criticism of Stalin, the friendship between Czechoslovakia and Soviet Union was undisputed.
>>30127615
this is why Poles hate you. that mentality.
>>30128096
this is why were Eurosceptic, anti kebab and isolationists nowadays. That period carries its impact to this day.
as an American, these threads instill such a hatred of russians in me. Fucking scum.
>>30128309
>>30128494
It's interesting to read Czechs talk about the Soviet times, they are just as bitter as any Pole or Baltic.
>>30128096
Shoulda just joined the Axis
Another million or two poles marching with barbarossa, what a world might have been....
>>30128718
>Germans now have the best pilots from the Battle of Britain
VVS fuqqed
>>30127615
>>Grand Uncle kills fascists like any red blooded Slav.
>>Comes home, communist puppet state
>>Tries to live a peaceful life
>>Goes to store for a smoke
>>Come back 20 years later from gulag
Then vatniks like you come in with this attitude only to later cry that the world is conspiring against you.
But hey you get to look forward to being Beijing's bitch. The first Han are already working "leased" siberian land with hundreds of thousands coming.
>>30128987
I'm sorry for your grand uncle anon
>tfw AK bloodline
>>30128554
>>30128987
>implying I'm being pro-russian in the slightest.
All I'm saying is that Poland was unlikely to gain any territory whatsoever after the war. Y'all are projecting so hard.
>>30128987
>The first Han are already working "leased" siberian land with hundreds of thousands coming
Do tell, this should be a good read.
>>30129028
>All I'm saying is that Poland was unlikely to gain any territory whatsoever after the war. Y'all are projecting so hard.
why say that in the first place, its kinda obvious. that's like saying Omaha was the roughest beach on D-Day
>>30129076
Because obviously some people can't even recognize that, hence the outrage at what I said.
>>30129028
Not sure why you say its unlikely
It's what poland was promised by the allies to get them to start WW2
>>30129118
that's a touchy subject for them, after being stuck in a war between the 2 of the most oppressive and destructive governments Europe has seen, a 1/5th of the population was killed, the entire country destroyed, Warsaw was something like 90% destroyed, the country still bares the scars today and you went off saying they were lucky
>>30129163
Are you telling me that Poland started WW2?
Besides, the one who in the end decided what Poland got had no real interest in giving Poland territory. In fact, they took territory from Poland. They merely replaced it with some German territory, a deal which the other great powers had to accept, as it was better than the one they thought they were getting.
>>30124487
Definitely a total, un-redeemable shit-stain.
You come to Poland I'll personally deliver one wpierdol.
>>30129239
chuju do kogo misczliscz ty gadasz? przychodze do Polski na pierszego lipcza
>>30129019
Other granduncle was part of Anders' Army. Walked from USSR to middle east. He passed when I was young though, so I never got to know him. He did tell my dad that the Arabs they met as they were marching were incredibly kind and help them tremendously. He never was able to believe that Arabs could have been responsible for 9/11, but so it goes.
>>30129185
Perhaps backroom deals were made for Russia giving poland land in exchange for being able to install a puppet government
Yes poland started WW2
Hitler said Danzig or War
And poland said War
>>30129307
that's really neat knowing your family came to arms in their country's hour of need
>JWK wears AK batallion Zoska/Parasol/Miolta patches as a sign of rememberance
based
>>30129381
?
Noone in anders army "came to arms in their country's hour of need"
They were all prisoners taken when USSR invaded poland
Then they fought in the west, for those who promptly betrayed them.
>>30129342
>Bend over so I can rape you or I'll kill you.
>I dindu nuffin officer, she started it
>>30129342
standing your ground and not giving up your land doesnt start a war.
>Danzig is German
not since 1918. shouldn't have lost that war.
>>30129342
>Perhaps backroom deals were made for Russia giving poland land in exchange for being able to install a puppet government
Mate, Russia was going to install a puppet government regardless of what the Western Allies wanted.
>Yes poland started WW2
>Hitler said Danzig or War
>And poland said War
This is literally the most retarded thing I've ever heard.
>>30129398
>Noone in anders army "came to arms in their country's hour of need"
>Fighting enemy which declared war on your country where ever possible
>not fighting for your country
uh ok
>>30129381
Funny enough the military tradition held with my grandfather as well. But I'm pretty sure that was conscription. He ended up become a captain through the technicality of having been involved in three or four campaigns. Despite never actually seeing combat and getting "lost" on the way to Czech to suppress the uprising.
Dad was going to be a T-72 commander, but said fuck that and traveled the world instead.
He has Alzheimer's now though and can barely string together two sentences. It hurts so much because he lived in such a terrible but interesting time. The things I wish I had asked him.
>>30129398
Pretty sure Anders' troops at Monte Casino were fighting for Poland, it just so happened they had shitty allies
>>30128494
>>30128663
Czechslovakia was also the most industrialized of the future bloc countries since before WW2.
During the 1930s, Praga, Tatra, and Skoda were making as many vehicles combined as Volkswagen. Before WW2, the Czech had their own tank development program that produced pretty decent tanks for 1938, and during the war they provided something like 25% of Nazi Germany's truck production.
They are bitter because they think without the Soviets fucking them over, they could have been another West Germany economically, instead of being the middle of the pack economy that they are now.
>>30129411
Danzig was not polish
It was an independent city which was 99% german at the time
>>30129570
Italians didn't invade poland
Anders army had just been in the prison of those who invaded poland, they were fighting in aid of them.
