hey /k/, what constitutes a gun in the legal sense?
if i wanted to make mechanically functioning mockups of stuff from video games, what parts CAN'T it have? some of the guys around my shop say it has to have a plugged barrel and no firing pin, while other guys say it can't have an upper receiver at all. the ATF website talks about it just not being able to shoot bullets. whats the deal?
pic related is what i have access to. that and a pretty rad 3D printing shop.
>>30047043
Where do you live, anon?
Aside from a couple communist states that require gun registration, if you're in America you can build yourself a 100% real gun without going through any legal red tape as long as you don't intend to sell it for commercial purposes.
>>30047111
>if you're in America you can build yourself a 100% real gun without going through any legal red tape as long as you don't intend to sell it for commercial purposes.
thats the thing. i know a bunch of whales who would pay top dollar for this stuff. especially if all the parts move the way it does in the video game.
i wouldn't be mass producing. just doing one offs on commission.
>>30047154
Welp, you have a problem. In the U.S. the receiver is technically the firearm. That's the "frame" which holds all if the moving parts together. If you have the moving parts and they are working together, the frame you have it in is legally a firearm. Eben if the barrel is fake or obstructed.
>>30047215
hmm. so all the internals are out?
most of these guys just want the slide action to work and for the reload mechanism to be authentic.
>>30047043
The part that holds the fire control group
>>30047043
not a lawyer, but i am the president of a hackerspace and several prop makers work out of my space. One of them has designed but not a complete copy of a prop gun, that would work. All of them have produced several guns that do not work.
What if you had something that externally appeared to function like a firearm, but the mechanical aspects were actually hooked up in such a way that it could never operate as a firearm. No firing pin, trigger moves hammer, which couldn't hit anything unless you milled down a piece. completely full barrel, something to block the feedramp on a mag to the barrel.
Perhaps you can make it appear like a gun, and appear to have all of the moving parts externally, but have the inside be unlike a firearm and inoperable as a firearm.
Otherwise, just make a company that makes real guns prop that only sells them to high end clients.
>>30047043
>spelled it "hass" in the caption
You're retarded and this thread is fake and gay. If you were allowed access to that thing you'd be smart enough to ask this of a lawyer, not a Mongolian meat-curing forum
>>30047043
Gun as in big ass gun that can't be carried? It can't be real. Gun as in something that can be carried (firearm)? In most states it's perfectly legal to build your own firearm.
>>30047293
>mongolian meat curing
that actually sounds delicious.
>>30047043
I have a prop Luger that I found.
The toggle works, the safety works, the trigger works, and the mag release releases the mag. Everything internal is of the wrong scale to use any cartridge that I had available, and the barrel is blocked with red plastic (metal barrel).
>>30047264
pretty much, you can make that stuff work.
but it cannot function the way the original gun worked, if that makes sense.
ie, if you're building a 1911, the trigger and hammer system must be completely different.
it needs to be mechanically unable to be a firearm.
It needs to be different enough from a firing gun that you can't just swap out a barrel or bolt to make it operable.
>>30047043
Different laws have different definitions of what it means to be a firearm. There are a lot of laws that come into play when selling firearms and ammo, and if you really want to do this commercially it's probably worth your time to talk to a firearms lawyer. I am not a lawyer.
That said, there are three primary federal laws that regulate the sale, transfer, and manufacture of firearms in the US. Your state or the client's state may have additional laws (another good reason to retain a firearms lawyer).
The 1934 National Firearms Act
The 1968 Gun Control Act
The 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act
In particular, all three of these laws are part of Titles 18 and 26 of the United States Code.
18 USC Chapter 44 Section 921 defines a firearm as:
>The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
Part A says that a firearm is any device which does or may readily be converted to expel a projectile. Part B says that a receiver on its own is also considered a firearm. Part C says that any device which may function as a silencer is also considered a firearm. Part D has its own definition, but probably doesn't cover what you're trying to do.
There are a few conclusions you can draw here:
1) Plugging the barrel isn't enough, because the receiver by itself is considered a firearm. If the receiver is capable of functioning, regardless of what else is attached, then it's a firearm. In fact, plugging or not plugging the barrel doesn't change it's status as a firearm, but it's probably a good idea to do because it shows good faith compliance with the spirit of the law if you ever did have some trouble.
>>30047670
2) Your object can't be "readily" convertible to a firearm. The law doesn't define what that means, and this is where judicial interpretations really come into play. My best advice here is to look at what it takes to convert an 80% receiver into a finished product and use that as a standard. It should be at least as hard to turn your object into a functioning weapon.
3) If you include a silencer in your replica, it shouldn't be functional.
One suggestion would be to chamber your replica with a round that doesn't exist, or chamber it for special blank cartridges. That way it's very hard to argue that the device could "readily" be used to fire a projectile, but you could create dummy bullets (or use blanks) that would allow someone to have the real feel of the weapon.
Another suggestion would be to not include any semblance of a firing mechanism. As others have pointed out, the firing pin is ultimately the component that makes the gun go bang. If you design your thing so that it can't readily detonate a cartridge's primer, then it can't readily be used as a firearm.
Finally, one last area of law you might think about looking at isn't firearms law, but rather copyright law. The fictional guns in those videogames (and their appearance) are the property of the game studios involved. It's illegal to recreate them and sell them without permission.
