body armor post nuke
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
So in the cold war, we had plans of using tactical nukes.
davy crocketts, the atomic annie, a few dial a yield bombs, etc.
but nobody ever really covered, nor do i think they know how they would've protected guys from fallout.
you could wait a long ass time for it to settle all the way, and then run through it, but these weapons would be deployed in combat - you don't have time to sit, thumbs in asses, waiting for fallout to settle while commies are trying to kill you.
so is there any way of protecting troops from fallout while keeping their armor and mobility? (so no big bomb tech michelin man suits)
I can't really find a way, save for the MOPP suits but I can't really find anything on how effective they are against fallout.
also nuke thread
They've had concepts for this since the 60s
>>30040826
>>30040826
>>30040836
Hey Mike! Go put on this halloween costume from iparty so the reporters think we're doing something with all this government funding
>>30040836
50's did have some balling shit though.
While the cost, stupid amounts of training, danger to ones self/others, storage, noise and so on... and so on, would be fucking silly compared to a $5 shovel and just yelling at cunts to dig faster.
It is cool
Someone in 1958-59 had a great idea for an explosive shovel
Someone else said 'thats cool!' and gave them probably a small fortune of cold war budget to make a cool, (but mostly silly) explosive shove.
Isn't the whole point of NBC to gtfo from the now worthless piece of land? The idea of actually fighting with that shit on of ridiculous, I remember having to turn glorious Sig 550 +90° just to aim through the pro mask
>>30040753
America and the USSR designed many of their vehicles either with NBC protection, or with the ability to take NBC protective kits. Mostly, this consists of overpressure seals and sensors.
The US still maintains a limited fleet of NBC vehicles such as the M93A1 Fox to deal with NBC/CBRN (CBRN is stupid, acronym) threats.
MOPP (JSLIST) gear isn't really intended for long term exposure. The filters are limited, and the JSLIST suit itself has a limited filter time against most threats (for example, if it encounters liquid chemical agent, the soakthrough time is about 15 minutes). It's intended to allow troops to leave a hazardous area, not fight through one. An NBC hazard area is a no-go for fighting in. Troops tasked with going into such an area are going to be wearing positive pressure suits and have their own supply of air as a primary.
>>30040973
I can only imagine all the unofficial uses that would have been developed for such a device.
NBC suits. Basically coal lined suits with a gas mask. The suit itself can be had for cheap if it's surplus, modern variations can get costly.
>>30041064
yeah, but you might be forced into fighting in the new green glass sea.
>>30041105
positive pressure suits, like the old school diving suits?
just with scuba tanks?
could you imagine fighting in one of those?
>>30041125
I can't actually think of anything but unofficial uses for it.
>>30041151
>positive pressure suits, like the old school diving suits?
Like Tyvek suits. A nonpermiable material, different than JSLIST which is just layers of cloth with charcoal filters and some additives.
>just with scuba tanks?
SCBA rigs. Similar to what firefighters wear. Some rigs have the option to switch back and forth between filter and airtanks.
>could you imagine fighting in one of those?
I can imagine. Moving in those suits sucks. But it's the only way to be decently safe in a chemical environment that's saturated. That's why nobody wants to fight in them.
>>30040753
Fallout is only a problem if you breathe it in, that's why troops have gas masks.
The suits that both sides were issued are for persistent chemical weapons.
If you want a good read about fighting in NBC conditions then go get a book called "Chieftains" by Bob Forrest-Webb. It's mostly from the perspective of UK tank crews but there's an M1 crew in there too. It goes into a lot of detail about the way a war in 1985 would of been fought. I think it coves land warfare far better than red storm rising did.
In the same vein there is also a series by Harvey Black starting with 'The Red Effect' its has more politics and espionage in it but there is plenty of ground combat and chemical weapons.
>so is there any way of protecting troops from fallout while keeping their armor and mobility?
Do you know what life expectancy was for an infantryman fighting in the Fulda Gap?
>>30041326
>Fallout is only a problem if you breathe it in, that's why troops have gas masks.
That's not true. Particles with alpha radiation can be stopped by masks and nonperminable clothing, but beta radiation is not sufficiently stopped by a simple JSLIST.
>The suits that both sides were issued are for persistent chemical weapons.
They are, but the suits are only meant to last a short duration, and they are only able to stop mild concentrations of chemicals. Indoor or heavily concentrated chemicals will overwhelm masks, and liquids will soak through the JSLIST type suits. Further, almost no units carry spares, or decontamination equipment, and they are not trained beyond absolute barebones on how to operate in a chemical environment. The goal of JSLIST during a chemical attack is to allow troops to survive the initial attack and then retreat to somewhere that a decon line has been set up.
>"Chieftains" by Bob Forrest-Webb.
>The Red Effect'
Fictional novels.
>>30041383
So the TL:DR is that everyone's totally fucked?
>>30040753
>fallout.
east german tech best tech
>>30040753
Beyond NBC suits, which only protect from you getting fallout ON you and breathing it in, there really isn't any protection against radiation. You need high density materials to protect against gamma rays, hence why bunkers are covered in concrete.
Radiation is just really high frequency light. Physics is a bitch.
Second best is inside a tank of some sort, but for the individual soldier not much you can do unless we figure out shields ala star trek.
>>30041394
It depends. The JSLIST *can* be kinda ok, at least enough for somebody to evacuate from an open area.
The biggest issues are detection and training. Most units don't have enough suitable detection equipment and sirens. Without that, people won't know to don protective gear until it's too late. For training, most units don't know how to move and operate in a chemical environment in ways to minimize contamination. It's a lot of simple stuff, but it needs to be practiced to the point of rote memory, because your IQ drops massively once you're inside chemical gear. Also training on little things like taping up gloves and taping detection paper to a stick instead of hand dipping it into liquid.
Oh yeah, and I'd say a good 90%+ of military units don't keep their gear in adequate condition. Most are worried about inventory, not maintenance, so masks are old. They often times are using expired filters and don't pack new ones. Hell, most times they only have enough 'training JSLIST' for everybody and don't actually have sealed ones on hand.
Also, things like wearing body armor over JSLIST will reduce it's chemical protection effectiveness because it compresses the suit and causes sweat to start bleeding the charcoal.
fucking eurocuck britbong shil. why are you thinking you're ALLOWED on /k/ with the big boys?? nofuns fucking faggot. go away.
>>30041407
Fortunately gamma is only at the moment of the blast.
...but yeah, not really a good way to protect from it. If you're close enough to get a bad dose of gamma (and all the others you'd also get from the blast), you're fucked.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Slotin
>>30040836
Not sure wtf they were thinking, but the body armor, imaging device, and comms gear definitely came true
The human body can absorb a surprising amount of radiation, backround radiation from post-nuke terrain isn't as bad as you'd think (iirc it's only up to beta radiation, which is stopped by concrete blocks just fine) and there are suits meant for working around highly radioactive material already. It wouldn't be hard to line them with kevlar.
That said, they're so big and bulky that one of those PLUS all your fightin' gear would simply be too much. It's kinda like how naval ships tend to deal with NBC threats -- they have fancy sophisitcated systems and reams of manuals on how to set up decontamination stations and purified citadels, but it's only meant to last a couple of days while they just sail the fuck away and let the people whose jobs it is to clean shit up go clean shit up.
Even the suits that armies currently have for that sort of thing aren't for long-term deployment. They're an emergency measure for you to not die while bouncing the fuck out of a Sarin attack. You're not meant to be going off and having raging gun battles in a nuclear dust laden aftermath of a particularly wet biological attack while a little generator huffs out chlorine gas.
>>30040836
honestly that's not much different from modern FUTURE WARFARE getups except the explosive foxhole diggers, but don't some of the modern getups inclue halligan bars and extra breaching charges and shit anyway?
>>30041456
Sorta, you're thinking of Neutrons. Neutrons are the absolutely nasty things that turn normal materials into their radioactive isotope form. The Gamma component lingers around just like Alpha and Beta do; otherwise we would have had Chernobyl cleaned up a long time ago.
Granted the worst of the gamma fallout dissipates after ~2 weeks, the more active of a radiation emitter the isotope is, the shorter the half life. Kinda like a candle vs a forest fire.
Even better, Hiroshi Ouchi. Poor bastard got exposed to enough Gamma it literally erased his chromosomes. Think the organic version of deleting your windows folder with the computer running.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokaimura_nuclear_accident
>>30041383
>That's not true. Particles with alpha radiation can be stopped by masks and nonperminable clothing, but beta radiation is not sufficiently stopped by a simple JSLIST.
So what? the masks are provided for fallout, not the suits. Also you are wrong, Beta burns will be prevented as long as your clothing keeps the particles off your skin.
>They are, but the suits are only meant to last a short duration, and they are only able to stop mild concentrations of chemicals. Indoor or heavily concentrated chemicals will overwhelm masks, and liquids will soak through the JSLIST type suits. Further, almost no units carry spares, or decontamination equipment, and they are not trained beyond absolute barebones on how to operate in a chemical environment. The goal of JSLIST during a chemical attack is to allow troops to survive the initial attack and then retreat to somewhere that a decon line has been set up.
The suits will last 48 hours in fairly heavy environments. Of course it will depend on what you an encountering.
In the cold war the west was most worried about sarin, suits and masks would provide a good degree of battlefield protection for a couple days.
And so what if a book is fiction? if it is written by former servicemen who understand SOP's then it is a good an insight as any into how these battles would be fought.
In Germany there would have been decontamination stations for troops and vehicles as they are moved back from the line, there was an ample supply of filters, masks and suits that could be deployed as needed - having duplicates in a unit is a waste of space.
>>30041441
>Oh yeah, and I'd say a good 90%+ of military units don't keep their gear in adequate condition. Most are worried about inventory, not maintenance, so masks are old. They often times are using expired filters and don't pack new ones. Hell, most times they only have enough 'training JSLIST' for everybody and don't actually have sealed ones on hand.
Because 90% of the time CRBN gear is pointless. In the situations where it is actually a threat - then procedures are implemented to bring protection back as a priority.
The first defence against CRBN is knowing if your troops will actually encounter it.
>>30041394
>So the TL:DR is that everyone's totally fucked?
It depends 'what' kind of environment you've wandered the fuck into really, there's so much shit out there which will either make you very sick (thus- combat ineffective) or just plain dead.
Being dead isn't pretty, but its easy to deal with.
The CBRN stuff infantry carry around will stop a fairly goodly amount of the chemicals that make you sick, it'll offset the plain-dead stuff maybe long enough for you to whack a needle into yourself and if its not the right needle for the right chemical, it'll kill you anyway.
In the military, the long-term isn't really considered too much- while you might survive the initial attack, get the job done, you're probably not going to be collecting a pension a few years down the track. Seriously the amount of nasty shit out there is just so damn lethal it only takes tiny ppm to incapacitate people with permanent effects and basically doubling it will kill them outright.
In my truck in 2003 they loaded me up with all kinds of shit in case we ran across something.
Had the radiation meter, that was about 2kg
Had a chemical sniffer, that was about 15kg
Also had a fairly large and kind of complicated device for doing field breakdowns of anything weird we found- that was close to 20kg
This is addition to my comms gear- which was about 38kg if I remember rightly... before we even loaded up on ammo, food and water!
The radiation meter worked fine, but it ate batteries like a fat kid on cake, the sniffer didn't like to work above 35C and over about 80% humidity (which isn't fucken real good when you're in the western desert), the big chem rig basically never left its box and after bouncing around for 4weeks probably wouldn't have bet much on it working anyway. All that stuff's gotten smaller since, but its still mostly shit.
Now you kind of understand the 'what kind' of threat question.
>>30041654
I mean in the context of OPs post, in actual combat... You're pretty much fucked, right?
I'm thinking that all the fancy suits in the world won't do you any good if a chemical agent is introduced and you're in a combat situation and that suit is ruptured, as I gather they are very much not durable for that. Not through fault of design of course, I suppose it's just priority of not having it weigh so much you need mechanical assistance to actually move
>>30041685
Oh yeah, its like two monkeys trying to fuck a football.
The sniffers I believe are probably around 1-1.5kg now but not sure on the range and they won't be handing them out to everyone either.
Best thing to do is just let someone else know just how fucked you are before you expire so they don't wander in and get fucked as well
>>30041711
At least in WW1 with the gas there they had some equipment that would stop it (if you could get it on in time). Modern chemical agents are fucked.
Kind of glad I didn't end up enlisting, even though Aus these days doesn't do much.. The potential for being obliterated due to a chemical weapon scares me a lot. Being shot not so much, but fuck chemicals.
>>30040973
any moar pics like this?
>>30040753
MOPP suits protect against beta particles but don't do shit against gamma rays. Masks keep radioactive particles out of the lungs.
Best bet when use tactical nukes to create openings in enemy lines then push rapidly through with mechanized infantry with NBC protected vehicles.
>>30040753
What about the civies caught in the melee?
Just put on your vanity NBC mask after worshiping the almighty bomb and it's holy fallout.
Proceed to your private shelters Beneath the Planet of the Slavs.
http://webmland.com/w/0kXW/ part 1 of 4
http://webmland.com/w/o6nu/ part 2 of 4
http://webmland.com/w/tRLX/ part 3 of 4
relevant
http://webmland.com/w/jjEH/ part 4 of 4
>>30040753
>dem tinted faceshields
Yes pls
>>30041194
>tyvek
>nonpermeable
pick one
>>30040753
Here you go OP, this site sums up the reality of attempting to protect soldiers during a full blown CBRN shitting match
https://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Survive_To_Fight
https://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/NBC
>>30040826
damn, the new ghost recon looks wierd
