>>29778084
No. Being a peon is an inefficient step in learning to be a manager compared to training specifically for the management role, not to mention that the Army would lose the ability to attract a lot of their stronger talent if they had to enlist prior to the subsidized college.

To be honest they should either dismantle or totally overhaul the service academies. Their academics are a joke and like half of their purpose is as a retirement home for flag officers.

>>29778117
>Their academics are a joke

How so?

>>29778217
>and like half of their purpose is as a retirement home for flag officers.

>>29778217
Not him.

They spend 4 years playing army and still arrive to their first units needing to be trained in everything by the NCOs.

>>29778117
Your retarded "get promoted or get fired" system for officers is retarded.

>>29778217
Not a joke in the big picture, but the problem is that military people like to claim that they're on par with Ivy League schools because in certain magazine college rankings the military academies get ranked highly (due to retention and admission rate being weighted too highly). The thing is, academy academic standards are a joke COMPARED TO THE SCHOOLS THE ACADEMIES COMPARE THEMSELVES TO which hurts their credibility in my eyes and the eyes of anyone who went to a school where people are legit smart.

I'll give three examples:
1. Look at the SAT and class rank stats for academy admits. They don't even touch the kids going to Ivies.

2. Academy students are stretched too thin. There's simply a limit to how much they can study with the other demands put on them.

3. Academy students often don't get to choose their major and courses because "needs of the service" come first. This is a bit of a dirty secret.

>>29778084
yes. Officers arrive at units essentially untrained. The NCO corps jas been gaining strength for so long, many offocer jobs are regularly handed off to the NCOs....and they do them better!
It boils down to, you cant expect a leader to be able to effectively lead if he has no idea how his "peons" do their job.
>>29778117
You are a moron. In every other job, you start off on the bottom. There is no other job where you can get "special" traning and come in as a manager. Before you can manage burger flipers you must first know how to flip burgers

>>29778247
so letting some asshole spend 20 years as a Cpt is a good idea?

>>29778340

If he's the best asshole for the job, yes.

>>29778337
No, upper management at McDonalds does not have to flip burgers first. They go to college, work in corporate somewhere, get an MBA, then go work for McDonalds.

Burger King makes management trainees work at a location for like two weeks, so less than an academy or ROTC student spends doing low-level work over the summer.

>>29778372
>Burger King makes management trainees work at a location for like two weeks, so less than an academy or ROTC student spends doing low-level work over the summer.

A burger king manager also doesn't literally make choices that might end with the death of some of his employees

>>29778084
I enlisted in the NG so I can have more experience in front of troops before commissioning.

>09R

Let the memes come down on me

>>29778389
He also spends a lot less time studying the organization before assuming his job than any commissioned officer does.

>>29778395

Wow, and here I was thinking that Oh-Nine Shitbirds were the lowest of the low and then here you are.

>>29778351
anyone that spends 20 years as a Cpt is not the "best" at anything, simply because a promotion to Cpt is the last automatic promotion an officer gets. So many Cpts are the Spc of the officer corp. They join, float along getting their automatic promotions and then one day they realize they will never make Maj or Sgt. Then they have a choice, get out or be forced out. Most shitbag officers or Joes are pretty good at realizing it's time to move on. I've only know 1 or 2 officers that were QMPed , and maybe as many shitbird Spc that hung around untill their retention control point and were forced out.

>>29778084

Best officer I ever served under was former enlisted.

That said, the worst officer I ever served under was also former enlisted.

So, I don't know, shits complicated.

>>29778340
If he sucks at his job, sack him, but if he's in the position because there's no space to move up he should stay there until there is someone more competent.

>>29778410
Is-s that a good or a bad thing? I'm attempting not to let cadetland make me a shitbag.

>>29778455
same. I was stuck in a Inf BDE HHC and they took a Cpt from the S3 shop and made him our CO right before we deployed to Kosovo. Man was such a failure. Racked up THREE letters or reprimand while we were over there. BDE commander would not relieve him because he was the one that picked him for the job. Found out that when he was a PL in the 82nd he had been relieved for loosing a PLGR and for loosing NVGs. You would think a prior enlisted 11B would make a good Inf officer. I think I know what his problem was. At the COC cerimony when he handed the company over his father was there. Found out he was a retired CSM and it floored me when I heard the Cpt addressing his father as "Sir".

>>29778491

Your going to be an officer. Everyone is going to think you're a shitbag unless you 1) keep your safety briefs under one minute or 2) get 300 on your pt

>>29778478
>If he sucks at his job, sack him
you have clearly never served. I've seen a officer held responsible for a soldier getting crushed by a deuce &1/2 , and he still got to remain in command of his company, also se my post here >>29778502
> but if he's in the position because there's no space to move up he should stay there until there is someone more competent
so he can continue to create a back log that prevents a possibly more competent junior officer from moving up? No. Usually in the Army if a Cpt is really bad, they dump them in a staff job anyway, that way they are in charge of nobody but themselves. Even then, some of those staff jobs could be stepping stones for better officers careers.

>>29778512
Currently a 268 and climbing. Started this year at 90. I've put in alot of work and intend to put in a lot more.

>>29778538
>I've seen a officer held responsible for a soldier getting crushed by a deuce &1/2

Damn, that sucks. Only death I ever was near was when some fucker decided to sleep on front of a humvee and got run over when they rolled out in the morning.

Like, how the fuck do you sleep through a humvee being turned on right in front of you?

officer power rankings

ROTC < Academy < OCS with out prior enlisted time < OCS with prior enlisted time

>>29778538
Are you blind, did you miss the bit where I said "someone more competent can replace him"?

All you're doing is replacing experienced officers with less experienced and less competent.

>>29778595
>OCS with out prior enlisted time

I thought you could only go OCS if you were prior enlisted

>>29778564
the soldier didn't die. It was our HHC CO. This was in Korea. Our supply room KATUSA was sleeping on a cot right behind the deuce. At some point that night the CO came by to chew our supply sgt about something and saw him there behind the deuce and didn't say "hey, that might be dangerous, maybe move?" the next morning the supply sgt and the driver and the KATUSA all over slept, Dougie, the supply clerk was sleeping in the cab, jumped up, and just went to start the deuce without doing a safety walk around (like anyone ever does one of those) he didn't step on the clutch and it was in reverse. backed right over Kim, then pulled forward. They medivaced Kim out and he survived, but he was all fucked up. He came back to us like three months later, arm in a sling, internal organs fucked, but he could walk again. Then he was gone, med discharge from the ROK army. Worst part, He and Dougie were roommates. The investigation placed the blame on the Cpt for not telling them to move the cot. One little decision, and it squashed his career. I was told by our XO the Cpt had already been passed over on his first look for Maj, so the letter of reprimand he got pretty much finished off his career.

>>29778620
I think people who never did ROTC while in college and decide they want to join the Army can go to OCS so they can commission as an officer.

>>29778564
To be fair, how the fuck do you miss a guy sleeping in front of your hummer

>>29778502
>Racked up THREE letters or reprimand while we were over there
I don't know that I met 3 people in the 6 1/2 years I was in who had a single reprimand, and thst guy had 3? That's just sad.

>>29778641

>"bruh, Dfac closes in 15 minutes, we have to go, NOW"

>>29778620
Primary requirement for OCS today is a Bachelor's Degree. Prior enlisted service is favorable, but by no means necessary. A lot of college grads will have OCS lined up for when they graduate.

>>29778616
and you clearly don't know how assignments work in the Army. Most officers only do 18-24 in a assignment then move on to their next job/command. Their is no "waiting for someone just as/more competent" to show up. It's part of the reason that if need be, a Lt can do a Cpts job, if no Cpt is available.

Quick reminder that officers should not exist below the Battalion level. All companies and platoons should be head by 10 and 15 year NCOs

>>29778650
yep, and I helped him get one of those LORs. If anyone here has ever been to Camp Monteith, the Mayors cell wasa one story building right across from the chow hall. He had decided to use a room there as a company arms room. No alarm, no guard, and it had a external door with a cage door with no high security lock. I mentioned this to a friend of mine in the Task Force G2 who was also in the company.She couldn't stand the Cpt,so, she called up the physical security civilian over on camp monteith and guess who got a surprise visit for a physical security inspection? Far as I know, he never knew the chain of events that led up to the inspection. MWHAHAHAHAHA!

>>29778719

Wow

Not saying you're a blue falcon

But you're an indego hawk

A lot of officer problems could be solved simply by reforming how officers get treated when they obviously screwed up.

Colonel, west point grad, son of a general that is also west point grad.
>adultery with an iraqi national
>marries iraqi national while still married to american
>defrauds the US government of $350,000
>$350,000 used to pay off iraqi national's father with "construction contracts"
punishment for 30+ felonies, pleas out during court marital. gets knocked down a rank, letter of reprimand and has to pay back the money. can still retire and collect his pension and benefits.


meanwhile I've seen a SSgt dishonorably discharged for using government travel charge card to buy food at a walmart, while TDY.

>>29778743
lol, you didn't know the Cpt. Things got so bad between him and our 1SG that they sent 1SG back to the states within the first month of our deployment to Kosovo. And this wasn't just the Joes and NCOs hating on him, all the Cpts in our BDS HQs talked shit about him. Before he took over as our company CO, he had been a battle Cpt in the S3 and the other battle Cpts had nick named him "Stress-6".

>>29778372
burgers was an example. Its one thing to know what the capabilities of a tank are on paper, its another to see what ot can do in real life. Or any other situation where "possible" is confused for "normally happens."

>>29778795
>meanwhile I've seen a SSgt dishonorably discharged for using government travel charge card to buy food at a walmart, while TDY.
>a SSGT
Marine detected, there's yer problem.

>>29778812
>buying food while TDY
>with GTC
...thats what its for....let me guess, they took issue with a walmart charge and the gut didnt keep the reciept

>>29778812
army actually.

He was tdy for a month and staying in an extended stay motel with kitchens. So he bought groceries instead of eating out every meal. No base mess hall available. travel cards can be used to buy food.

Yet all they say was hundreds of dollars charged to a wal mart. He had the receipts to prove it was food too. He wasn't a trouble maker.

Yet evidently someone had pissed in all those officer's corn flakes. They rail roaded him out of the army. Though I do believe he was able to appeal it once out and got back in with his rank.

>>29778861
something doesnt add up here. First you used the wrong abbrieviated rank, in the Army its SSG not SSGT. Second you cant railroad someone out, booting him would have needed some high level processes like a court martial. Third, if that was going on he would have gone to JAG who would have bitch slapped the COC. Fourth, no LTC, COL or BG would let that shit come across their desk with that kind of punishment without a full fledged investigation by them being done.
In my unit even when it was E-3's buying rims with the GTC the LTC investigated and pukled the Soldier into his office to ask "what the fuck?" As soon as the SSG said, I biught food, here is proof ot woukd have ended, regardless. Thats the kinda shit that will get the brass booted. theu can defraud the govt, cheat on their wives and even make meth using Army equipment and only get a letter of reprimand, but bullying a Soldier loke gets them a boot out the door.