![Barracuda+SSN+submarine03[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ZfGyOC4.jpg "Barracuda+SSN+submarine03[1].jpg")
>Australia's next generation of submarines will be built in Adelaide in partnership with French company DCNS. Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull told reporters on Tuesday it was a "momentous national endeavour". The recommendation of a competitive evaluation process and the experts who oversaw it, as well as the Department of Defence, was unequivocal. The French offer represented the capabilities best able to meet Australia's unique needs, Mr Turnbull said. "This is a great day for our navy, a great day for Australia's 21st century economy, a great day for the jobs of the future." The project is expected to generate 2800 Australian jobs. "The submarine project alone will see Australian workers building Australian submarines with Australian steel, here where we stand today," Mr Turnbull said. Advanced manufacturing technology and skills were key to Australia's economic future, he said. Defence Minister Marise Payne said the submarines were necessary for Australia's national security. "It reflects the fact that we are a maritime-based trading nation and both our national and economic security are linked to the maritime environment of our region," she said. Mr Turnbull thanked German firm ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems and the Japanese government for their "high quality" bids. He said the combat system would be sourced from the United States. Senator Payne said the process had been robust, strong, methodical and rigorous. Chief of Navy Vice Admiral Tim Barrett said the country needed 12 submarines which were "regionally superior". "Navy will now work with industry, strongly, to make sure we deliver on that promise to government," he said. Originally published as France wins $50 billion submarine project
Well, the French did some good underwater renovations on the Rainbow Warrior.
Anyone know anything about the sub design itself? If they're converting it to conventional power, that seems like a conversion clusterfuck waiting to happen.
>>29739645
>DCNS will propose a conventionally powered version – named the Shortfin Barracuda Block 1A – as its pre-concept design for competitive evaluation process (CEP) phase of Australia's Collins-class submarine replacement. “While exact details remain confidential, DCNS can confirm the Shortfin Barracuda is over 90 metres in length and displaces more than 4,000 tons when dived,” said Sean Costello, CEO DCNS Australia.[11]
AUSTRALIA OUI!
Why would they buy submarines that small? They're not even the size of a torpedo. How are you going to fit a person in there, let alone an entire crew?
>>29739555
NIPPON BTFO.
Fucking based Frogs.
>>29739645
http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/designing-the-shortfin-barracuda-block-1a/
>>29740067
90 meters is almost one football(tm) field length.
>>29739555
DCNS builds good boats.
Pricey, but any submarine that's worth buying nowadays is retardedly expensive.
DCNS's product is expensive but they've been winning a lot of contracts in the last 10 years and they've demonstrated the ability to actually get the job done and get the subs delivered more or less on time; their Scorpene class has been an export hit. India, Chile, Brazil and Malaysia use em
>>29740548
>they've demonstrated the ability to actually get the job done and get the subs delivered more or less on time
That's reassuring. So it won't turn into another Eurofighter-style boondoggle. Good.
I'm all for anything that our allies do to get their dukes up. Storm's coming, and it'll hit shore near or at the end of the decade.
>>29739555
I heard they only come with white flags.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHZUJe3N99c
The major issue are whether the union workforce will deliver quality work or their usual standard wish requires reworking twice and a blowout in time and costs.
The second issue is whether the US combat system can be fitted properly.
The actual sub design will probably be good given the French are known to make decent hardware. Inb4 Famas.
>>29740548
>>29740577
Except they're being built in Australia by the same group that fucked up the Collins class.
>>29740985
Don't talk to me or my son ever again
>>29740985
Hhhhnnnnnnhgggggg I want to overthrow some 3rd world shit hole and become a dictator just so I can try to buy my own Typhoon. I don't even want the nukes, i'll fill the tubes with snacks and porn.
>>29740067
>>29740279
>>29740938
french are known to make cheapish hardware and be willing to sell to anyone
It's not really "good"
And i'm sure that your subs will be dogshit that are over budget before the first one is even delivered.
>>29741406
>willing to sell to anyone
Yes
>cheapish hardware
No
>>29741406
>french
>cheapish hardware
>>29740067
agreed. what are these, submarines for ants?
>>29740548
>Pricey
They're the cheapest of the three contenders. Which probably won them the contract.
>>29742299
If so, it's a bargain; they have a long-ass range and excellent passive sonar (assuming we don't swap it out). Vertical launch tubes will be handy too.
>>29742299
>>29742337
Reminder that the French are known for "offering" the Rafale pretty cheaply then going giga Jew and jacking up the price once they have a bite
good luck australia
>>29742337
Yup, their offer suits the Australians most. They essentially wanted a SSN without the reactor. Which they got now. The French proposal has also the lowest risk for Australia. The decision makes perfect sense. Might be a bit difficult to man all these boats but surely they'll manage somhow.
>>29742398
Not really, that's just India being fuck tarded and wanting Dassault to be responsible for HAL.
Thank fuck they just went for a straight sale instead.
>>29741406
boris, you can stop being so salty over that amphibious assault ship deal you blew with the invasion of ukraine
>>29742398
>Reminder that the French are known for "offering" the Rafale pretty cheaply then going giga Jew and jacking up the price once they have a bite
BS
>>29742597
>Not really, that's just India being fuck tarded and wanting Dassault to be responsible for HAL.
This, Poo in Loo indians wanted :
>a free tech transfert
>integration of armaments
>manufacturing facilities in India
>every possible fancy stuff
>That HAL known for their failures on everything build the thing while Dassault wanted to work with the Reliance group.
>That Dassault engage their responsibility over the mistakes HAL would inevitably make.
Fun fact : when Dassault calculated for how much and how much time it would take to build a Rafale in India, they discovered it would take 4 times the workforce and 2.7 times longer to build a Rafale in India with HAL as a contractor.
Which equates 11 times less productivity than the french facilities.
Problem : Even if they're well payed, there's no way the french workforce wages may have such an impact on the final price of a Rafale. Which basically means building a Rafale in Poo-in-Loo-land is actually... More expensive than building one in France.
There you got the true story. As you can see it's far from "le french iz jew money grabber" meme.
Fuck these poo-in-loo'ers. Even arabs aren't as shitty.
>>29742337
Also Thales who are one of the largest manufactures for the ADF are the largest shareholder in DCNS after the french gov. DCNS also offered to hand over all the technology in the subs so we can do what ever we want with them with out having to go through the french government.
>>29741004
This meme won't fly on /k/. Keep it on the slightly more cucky boards.
>>29740548
DCNS is/was rather financially wobbly. Not likely to shut down or be taken over because of stoic French government support, but direly threatened in terms of scale, autonomy, commercial reach and capacity. After the misadventure with the Russian Mistrals, they need this. TKM is much more viable as a company. The French decision is riskier, remember Kockums, similar circumstance. Desperation can force desperate over-promises.
>>29742806
Except nuclear barracudas as well as other Scorpenes are being build, not to mention the work is still going with brazillians on their first nuclear sub.
DCSN is a very busy company with years of activity ahead.
By the way, the Mistrals have been sold to Egypt months ago.
Is this an nuclear sub?
it doesn't look like it
>>29741119
Can I join your crew?
>>29742893
No just diesel powered.
Australia doesn't need nuclear powered subs.
>>29742761
I mean are Arabs even bad weapons customers? They are like a newly rich guy in a luxury shop. They will pay any price and believe the seller when they are told its makes them look grate.
Very good news.
Our submarine information was defended.
>>29742918
How come?
>>29742936
It's just going to be for coastal patrols and such
>>29742936
Because the greenies are fuckwits who won't let us have any of the good stuff without crying constantly about it. Their misinformation campaigns are responsible for nearly all our weapon restrictions
>>29742943
That, and we have no Nuclear power industry to speak of.
>>29742921
They are rich, but they are also very nitpicky about what they buy and how much they pay. The Leclerc contract with the UAE was a known clusterfuck which let GIAT in deep financial shit for years for example.
You don't just build fancy shit out of thin air.
To give you an insight : there are vocal commands on the UAE Leclercs. Not because it was the best tactical solution to enhance combat capabilities, but because UAE crews, back then, were composed of people who, often, couldn't read.
Metaphorically : put any engineer before the task of building a smartphone for people with down syndrome and watch as he kills himself.
Especially when the customer doesn't want to pay the shitload of money it took to design his stuff in the first place.
>>29739555
Can't they just buy something from the UK? As a Commonwealth member it would make sense...
>>29739555
>aussie subs
Against who?
US? US will completely rape them in like 1 week with conventional weapons only in absolute any scenario.
China? Will rape them without US help and will not attack if US will be there.
So, who is remained, immigrant boats?
>>29743160
>implying you need a reason to own a sub
>>29743207
Shall not be infringed?
>>29743160
Indonesia
>>29743160
Indonesia
Emus
North Korea
New Zealand
>>29743214
>Emus
Daym. You win.
>>29743214
>Emus
>>29743160
Our southern coast is totally exposed.
12 subs will be barely enough to slow them down, but they'll have to do for now
>>29743160
Power projection in SEA and against China if necessary.
Any conflict between China and anyone else in SEA is ultimately going to turn into a multinational clusterfuck the way things are now, so these subs wouldn't operate alone against China - although given what we've seen of the PLAN's actual seamanship and crew competency relative to the RAN's, it might actually be a fair fight in a vacuum.
The less said about PLAN B the better.
>>29739555
Since when french have competence to build subs?
>>29742936
No nuclear industry to support them
The US wants allies with non nuclear subs for shallow water work
![tumblr_inline_n3hc7yzc6j1sqwhx7[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/GfUXrHg.png "tumblr_inline_n3hc7yzc6j1sqwhx7[1].png")
>>29743273
>>29743285
It's not even a bait, their subs are US designed...
>>29743281
Though to be fair, the US is basically happy to give the Aussies anything they ask for.
If the Aussies had kept the nuclear option on the table, it's a safe bet the US would have offered Virginias just like that.
>>29743291
No, that's the British.
![tumblr_inline_n32el9gQPc1sqwhx7[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/fZ1v0R2.png "tumblr_inline_n32el9gQPc1sqwhx7[1].png")
>>29743291
>>29743273
>>29743292
And it would have been a poor decision since Australia doesn't have any nuclear industry or competence in nuclear tech...
>>29739555
French fags know their shit.
Search for COMEX.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagnie_maritime_d'expertises
>>29743298
Hence Mk48s and a US combat system in a French hull. Probably US sonar, too
>>29743298
Which is why the option was discarded early, yes. That's not the point.
The point is the US would be more than happy to give Shitpostia pretty much anything it asks for, not that it's pressuring them (lol) to go with conventionals or anything else.
>>29743305
Retaining compatibility with the French systems would be a helpful bonus if possible; though - if it turns out you can't fart out an LRASM from a 21" torp tube for whatever reason, the MdCM/Storm Shadow the French already have operational is a solid alternative.
>>29743298
correction, we have no active nuclear industry
>>29743322
What do you mean?
>>29742932
Does the Soryu really only have a 6100NM range?
>>29739645
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlr29PKX8X0
>>29743333
The current nip model, yes.
Their bid for the Australians was alleged to have a greater range, but no specifics were released publically.
>>29743340
Given that they basically gave up on AIP and tried to boost underwater range with shitloads of Li-Ion batteries, it's no surprise they lost.
>>29740067
Drones, duh.
Were they serious about leasing Virginia class subs?
>>29739555
VIVE LA REPUBLIQUE, 50 BILLIONS FOR WELFARE AND HEALTHCARE!!!
>>29743461
Wouldn't be much that Australia doesn't already have access to; Australia even had better screw design for a while.
>>29743474
You forgot
>ALL OF IT FOR THE SAKE OF SANDNIGGERS
>SO PROGRESSIVE
>SO TOLERANT
>THE VALUES OF THE LEFT
>FRANCE OUI
>>29743359
>boost underwater range with shitloads of Li-Ion batteries
Why don't they power this entirely by Li-ion batteries?
>>29740985
I bet they have learned to do it properly this time, Collins was a warm up.
>>29743524
>what is energy density
>>29743524
Performance and range would be awful with an all-electric solution; also the hilarious risk of the things catching fire.
There's a very good reason conventional still use diesel as the surfaced/snorkeling power source.
>>29743524
Because it's inefficient as hell compared to a proper AIP solution like TKMS's Permasyn motor or whatever the hell the French implement.
Lack of proper AIP is most definitely one of the bigger reasons the Soryu lost the bid.
>>29743291
Not even that - the subs are entirely a british design, it's just that they use US-made missiles and nuclear warheads.
But wait , it gets even worse - the brits don't even have control over those missiles, the yanks do - all the brits are allowed to do on them is to put in and take them out of their silo.
>>29743327
we have a couple of inactive reactors, we actively handle and store international nuclear waste, so we know what we're doing with that.
>>29743461
Lease, hell! We would have helped the Aussies build their own if they wanted. They've always stepped up to the plate when we've needed them to.
>>29743530
well this time we're building them all in country with French engineering support rather than having some shit built in Sweden to different standards and general cross national cock ups (and adding our own cock ups too) so hoping for the best
>>29743596
It's probably a bait but there's a huge difference between storing nuclear waste and build an effective nuclear industry... Thing is, if you're not active, you're not competent.
>>29743613
>Thing is, if you're not active, you're not competent.
Much like your sex life, it seems.
>>29743610
when there was the fuck up with those welds on the collins while the hulls were being built, four were taken to Adelaide for repairs and two left in sweden, years later they found that couple still had hull defects from welding
>>29743604
The USN offered us (Aus) Essex class carriers and I believe would have shouldered the costs needed to refit them for our gear/needs.... we said no
>>29740067
UWBIED's, that's why.
>>29743623
tl;dr Kockums cocked-up.
Repeatedly.
>>29743623
In the building phase i think they were welded to Swedish standards (halfpenetration welds) meanwhile the Australian standard was a full weld.
>>29743629
To be fair, that was back when we were downsizing the fuck out of everything at the end of the cold war since lessened operational requirements.
These days we're jacking up the defense spending like woah, and a need for power projection.
...You Yanks got a spare Nimitz you want to sell us?
>>29743632
>Cuckums
We will destroy indocuckd
why no nuclear submarines ?
>>29744081
oh never mind didn't read the thread.
>>29744081
because australians can't into nuclear sheet
>>29740577
Sorry Phil. This is another case of Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown.
France refused to provide weapons or parts for the Mirage III if we sent them to Vietnam.
Provided incomplete drawings in French when we built a Durdance class oiler to their design.
Sold us the Tiger attack helicopter. They will be replaced by Apaches, never being ready to deploy in ten years.
They sold us the MH90. Floors can't take the weight of a soldier in battle rattle. Engine troubles.
They sold us the Eurotorp as ready for war, not a developmental nightmare. Again the paperwork was in french & Italian. Being replaced with the latest American torp, never made it onto our planes.
The sub had to fire Mark 48 torp, Harpoon and Tomahawk and carry the combat system used on Virginias and Collins. State are going to love the idea of froggies getting hold of that.
Paris is patting its head and yelling I fart in your General direction.
OZ is going to fund the development of the next Froggy sub and receive experimental an prototype.
We are so fucked.
>>29740067
How can they learn how to kill good if they can't even fit inside the sub?
>>29744157
Wasn't ready for that BS I have to say, pretty entertaining :)
>>29742939
BS. We sent the Oberons into Vladivostok on a regular basis.
The Collins order was dead in the water until the sub force commander showed the Prime Minister a vid taken from a periscope as the Oberon followed a Russian nuke into its berth. PM Hawke ordered the Collins.
The Le Skippy will be used for coastal patrols of our enemies coasts.
>>29743109
UK doesn't build DE boats. Astute class has problems and required design input from Electric Boat to get them into the water.
The frogs are probably better at designing a new boat than the Brits at the moment.
>>29743461
>minisub
Cute.
>>29743160
China and Indonesia. Subs are the best form of sea denial. One sub will tie up a squadron of surface ships looking for it. Anything coming at Australia has to come via choke points that subs can close off.
China is preparing for war with the USA in the 2030 period.
>>29744157
Wow. That's a lot of effort gone into crafting a post that's 100% sheer bullshit. I'm impressed.
>>29744251
Dude are you 12 or something?
>>29743461
Never. It was a pipe dream of the Navy League.
A dozen Virginias from Electric Boat would have left plenty in the till for an enlarged surface fleet.
Politics means it will not happen. The new Defence White Paper said Australia used to suport the Non Proliferation Treaty. That past tense is interesting.
>>29739555
Literally everything to do with the construction of the subs seems in Australia. What exactly have the French secured, here?
>>29744326
Everything related to being able to construct said subs
>>29744297
Even if you had competence, UNSC wouldn't allow australian nuclear weapons.
>>29740985
I wouldn't trust them to build a canoe.
>>29743474
A lot of it will be spent here as industrial / union welfare.
>>29743493
That screw was courtesy of the US Navy, who tank tested Collins and redesigned it for us. We traded the Jindalee OTH Radar tech for it.
>>29743576
Collins came with AIP, it was never installed, RAN didn't see the need. There is some very interesting Li tech coming out which makes them failure proof, as in 100,000 cycles.
>>29743596
We have one active research / isotope reactor at Lucas Heights.
>>29743629
That was in the 60s, as a replacement for Melbourne. The original docs are online as a Zip by Abraham Gubler, defence journo. He copied them after the 30 year rule expired.
>>29743589
Stop talking shit, the missiles are American, warheads are British.
Secondly, explain to me how an isolated system (SSBN) cannot fire its own weapons moron.
Trident uses the stars to guide itself and has GPS only for "enhancement".
>>29744326
Assembly will be done in Australia but numerous pieces and systems will be made in France + gigantic price of the technological transfert + price of the formation of the production teams and navy crews + price of the technical counselling and maintenance support over the next 50 years + first and possibly second subs might be built in france with australian teams in training while the australian industrial site get ready for production. Approximately 8b€ will get directly to France, rest will stay in Australia.
Frog subs are solid designs, DCNS has experience in difficult export contracts, like dealing with the fucking indians for locally assembled subs. If the aussie part doesn't cut corners like they did for the locally sourced Tigers components, it will be just fine.
>>29744326
Some one else to pay for the development of their next line of conventional submarines.
>>29744335
OP said that's happening in Australia. Are the French just getting paid for the parts or something?
>>29744157
>Mirage III
Sheer hilarious bullshit; not to mention we never deployed Mirages to 'nam because we had no operational requirement.
>HMAS Success
Defence had their thumbs up their arses from the start, and the shipyard were a screaming pack of incompetent chimpanzees. France wasn't flawless in that debacle, too, but the bulk of the fuckup was ours.
>Tiger
You order a super special snowflake variant that noone else uses, had it assembled locally by a factory with a reputation for questionable quality control, and expect no problems? Bluey you dumb shit.
>MH90
>manufactured locally by Australian Aerospace
See above.
>Eurotorp
That's on our procurement's back for being a bunch of wishy-washy fucktards in the first place. 's not like it's had any less teething problems than then Mk.54 anyway - we'd be just as stuffed if we went with that from the start.
>The sub
Which sub? The new one? We want the An/BPY-1 because the Yanks are more than happy to give it to us and integrate it with the french kit. "Had to"? The fuck are you smoking?
The only thing fucked here is your head.
>>29744384
Design, tooling and technology.
>>29744380
OZ govt ordered modified truck engines for the Collins instead of purpose designed sub diesels. Never doubt the ability of OZ govt. To fuck something up.
>>29744370
>Collins came with AIP, it was never installed, RAN didn't see the need.
And now there *is* a need. Requirements change over several decades, whoda thought?
>There is some very interesting Li tech coming out which makes them failure proof, as in 100,000 cycles.
In terms of actual energy density and the relative efficiency of the motors, it's a bad joke compared to an AIP of the permasyn type or similar.
>>29744380
Wrong on some counts.
The new facility that DCNS is going to build at Osborne includes tooling and machinery for construction of most of the sub barring the crazy shit like the combat system.
All subs are going to be built in Australia, they've confirmed that without any doubt multiple times now.
The maintenance and tech support is all going to be done locally; they've explicitly earmarked the Osborne facility for handling all of that.
The rest is spot on, though.
>>29744399
Fun fact: Amidst all the propulsion/power issues, the generators need replacing in five of six subs. The ones on the Collins, that work perfectly? French-built.
can anyone tell me the difference between the barracuda and the scórpene?
>>29742859
How the hell can Egypt even afford the Mistrals?
>>29744442
One generation ahead in some regards, twice the displacement, so longer range, weapon capacity, etc. True long range subs.
>>29744454
Nobody wants the muslim brotherhood to come back to power, so they're strongly backed by both middle-east countries and Europe.
>>29744442
Barracuda's a fucking nuclear sub, and over twice the size of the Scorpene.
The Shortfin Barracuda, which the Australians are buying, is the same as a normal Barracuda except for a Diesel-electric+AIP propulsion instead of nuclear.
The Shortfin also has triple the range, nearly twice as long endurance, and a much larger payload of weapons. Since it's a while generation more modern, it's also vastly more stealthy; the pump-jet/x-plane propulsion helps a lot in this regard.
>>29744454
Saudi money
>>29744442
>4,750t
>2,000t
>18,000 nmi at 10 kn
>6,500 nmi at 8 kn
There's your biggest differnece
>>29742936
More expensive/ politics
>>29743257
>Any conflict between China and anyone else in SEA is ultimately going to turn into a multinational clusterfuck the way things are now
Most of ASEAN is not allied with anyone.
And ANZUS only applies with US allies, not with foreign wars that America gets involved in.
>>29743292
Enjoy getting towed to Virginia or Alabama for repairs every couple years.
>>29743311
>The point is the US would be more than happy to give Shitpostia pretty much anything it asks for, not that it's pressuring them (lol) to go with conventionals or anything else.
I think you're being way too optimistic.
America has not offered the Virginia for export ever.
>>29744521
If you think it's solely down to old treaties, you're fooling yourself.
China putting a foot too far over the line means everyone else in region chimps out out of sheer self-preservation; treaties be damned.
>>29744537
Because noone's asked for it, and everyone who has the infrastructure for nuclear subs develops their own to this point. Or, in the case of India, Buys Russian.
>>29744529
One of the reasons the idea was taken off the table very, very early on, yes.
>>29744251
Everything China is doing in the SCS is a political show to raise nationalism. Similar to Japan.
The only way they'd go to war with America before literally anyone else, is if they have a major fuckup. Which is possible but extremely unlikely considering they haven't fucked up yet.
>>29743576
>or whatever the hell the French implement.
Almost certainly MESMA.
Which is actually a really good choice - the relative inefficiency of the thing compared to a stirling or permasyn is not as great a concern when you have a hull outmassing many older nuclear subs, and the ability to stay submerged for a hilariously long time (3 weeks on the Scorpene, probably a lot longer on something the size of the Barracuda) basically makes it the closest you can physically get to SSN capability without actually going nuclear.
Australia loves China!
>>29744587
The Mining companies do.
The average bloke on the street most certainly does not.
>>29744587
Fuck off, chink.
>>29744471
The Saudis themselves supported the Muslim Brotherhood and fund it everywhere.
But I get what you mean.
>>29744474
Didn't they just buy two meaningless islands from Egypt for a few billion?
>>29742299
Who were the other 2?
>>29744472
>the same as a normal Barracuda except for a Diesel-electric+AIP propulsion instead of nuclear.
AIP meaning MESMA?
>>29744546
Every major conventional war since WW1 has followed these "old treaties".
Democracies require justification for wars.
If China was to attack Indonesia or Vietnam, there would be no guaranteed response from any foreign nation. I doubt sanctions would even happen considering how economically meaningful China is to so many powerful nations.
There's a reason even with China being a fucktard in the SCS and pissing everyone off, there has been no unified response.
>>29744623
Germany and Japan.
Germany bid an upsized Type-214, Japan bid a modified version of their Soryu.
S.Korea-Australia alliance when?
>>29744623
Germany and Japan
>>29744603
The nips on /int/ have been talking bad about Australia for "supporting Chinese interests" in this submarine deal.
We have a thread about this deal on /int/.
That's likely who just posted.
>>29744630
Yep, you're deulsional.
>>29744654
I gave you a proper response.
Care to reciprocate or are you just going to shitpost?
It wasn't too long ago when China and Vietnam got into multiple military conflicts, and no one in ASEAN helped.
>>29742918
>Australia doesn't need nuclear powered subs.
>need
There's that word again.
>>29744644
Probably never
>>29744681
That's because at the time vietnam was still in everyone else's bad books and china wasn't yet trying to be the big bad bully of the south china sea.
Context matters.
>>29744644
Fuck off Gook
>>29742918
>island nation surrounded by semi hostile south east asian nations
>lol, you dont need nuke subs, you'll be fine
>>29744714
To be fair, if this Shortfin Barracuda operates as advertised, it'll be as good as a nuke sub for our purposes without the need for all that nuclear infrastructure.
>>29742761
>free tech transfer
Understandable. You want to be able to upgrade and repair your new jets yourself and create replacement parts without reliance on an international cunt that's constantly cutting and trimming contracts like a cunt.
>integration of arnaments
That's standard. India uses nationally developed and Russia derivative tech. They don't want to have to buy French missiles if they have their own.
>manufacturing facilities in India
See 1st.
>every possible fancy stuff
Vague.
>HAL is known for their failures
No shit. Underfunded and under developed companies tend to do so.
>Dassault to be blamed if shit goes wrong
Because the engines wouldn't be built in India and a catastrophic failure would generally be the fault of the manufacturer. It's reasonable.
>when Dassault calculated
So when a French, nationally dependant arms manufacturer looked into it, the price they gave to try and snag a deal was utter lies and bullshit so they then upped it and lost the contract because India didn't fall to the same problem EVERY Rafale sale has.
They do it every time and every branch of procurement. They did it to the Russians and their boats, only to refuse transfer after production, thus stealing Russian funds to make new Mistrals. They tried it with the Eurofighter when they DEMANDED that Eurofighter be primarily produced and upgraded in France despite them not being a major donator because Dassault was collapsing inwards due to dropping exports and there being no new contracts for French shit while the Gripen was replacing Mirages all over Europe.
I personally wouldn't trust France with my national defence.
>>29744725
Yeah, nah, you're a cunt. Also missing the forest for the trees.
All those points seem reasonable in a vacuum, but when you look at the terms of the contract the Curryniggers were basically asking for it for peanuts, and to completely absolve themselves of any possible wrongdoing in the case of any fuckup despite their complete inability to give the things the maintenance and QC the things required.
I wouldn't trust the Indians to maintain a designated shitting street, let alone defend it.
>>29744691
Except Vietnam is still vehemently hated in the Phillipines according to Pew Polls, and is still the same Communist one party regime it was in the 90's.
Also, the SCS conflict is not new at all. Stop this meme. China has been the big bad boy since the 9 dash line was made in the 20's by the RoC.
You're seriously arguing that ASEAN nations which dislike Communists, dislike Vietnam, and that have no treaties or economic interests with Vietnam... Are going to forgo their economic relationship with China to try fighting China with their shit navies?
YOU are delusional.
>>29743298
>he doesn't know that the expansion at lucas heights could produce %20 of the world's radioisotopes
>>29744725
You're a fucking moron.
>>29744725
>Understandable.
What did you not grasp about FREE tech transfert and how that could be understandable?
>Because the engines wouldn't be built in India and a catastrophic failure would generally be the fault of the manufacturer.
Dasault responsability was to be engaged on the airframes
>the price they gave to try and snag a deal was utter lies and bullshit
The price was in accordance with initial demands, additional demands about tch transfer, responsability etc. implies additional costs
>They did it to the Russians and their boats, only to refuse transfer after production, thus stealing Russian funds to make new Mistrals
Factually wrong. It was discussed so much here i won't even bother to look for sources of how it happened and how France and Russia settled their disagreement.
>They tried it with the Eurofighter when they DEMANDED that Eurofighter be primarily produced and upgraded in France
Factually wrong. They demanded Dasault to be leader on the project, which is different, and considering the amount of cock they were asked to swallow (dropping their national propgram, buying a plane that didn't entirely fit their requirement, assuming the cost of the naval variant development, changing the requirement of their future carrier to accomdate the new plane, buying, with the two version, the largest batch of planes), it was hardly unreasonable.
>Gripen was replacing Mirages all over Europe
Factually wrong. It was the F-16 that fucked Europe plane industry.
>I personally wouldn't trust France with my national defence.
Your loss. Their products are solid.
>>29744776
You've got youre head so comically up your arse I bet you're one of Chiba's propaganda shitposters.
Sup ching-chong, how's that gulag you call a country working out for you?
>>29744725
Fuck off back to India.
>>29744815
t. François.
>>29744725
DESIGNATED
>>29744827
t.Aditya
>>29744831
SHITTING
>>29744776
Australia ,the peace loving neutral nation in the pacific, is far from Mainland China.
"France" is the best for Australia and Europe.
America will help Australia if something happens around SCS area in future, so PM of Australia picks France the best one.
>>29741119
I do hope you mean W.T. Snacks and porn.
>>29744336
Because they're doing such a great job stopping best Korea
>>29744866
Wang, put down the bong.
Fucking hell, alot of this is going straight over my head.
Good thing i've never considered joining the RAN or RAAF
>>29744930
Go back to redfern ya bogan.
>>29744866
>far from china
>Darwin bombed by jap zeros in WW2
you alright there, mate?
>>29744950
He's probably chinese, so no.
>>29744944
Thank fuck i joined the Army over Navy Tbh.
nothing but slags and fags in the Air force
are you a slag or a fag?
>>29744820
You have literally no argument but an ad hominem attack.
All you can do is shitpost. This is what I've come to expect of discussion on /k/. Shitposts and memes.
>>29744866
I agree. The Nips didn't put up a good deal. All they had were "politics".
China is a major part of Australia's economy and the relationship is strong. I expected France to win the contract on capabilities alone.
>>29744972
Go eat a dog, ya chink shill.
>>29744950
>jap zeroes bombing darwin
????
Also, these Japanese planes were stationed in New Guinea.
Australia is literally 1,500 miles from China. Further than America is wide. That's far.
>>29744972
>/k/ shitposts and memes
nah mate, thats /tv/
you're getting some actual discussion here Tbh
>>29744969
Fag or slag, still better than you either way.
Also, your mom says hi.
>>29744994
and that was nearly 80 years ago.
im pretty sure the chinese have some better tech now than jap zeros stationed in papua
>>29745002
jokes on you, my mums dead.
>mom
ah, a burger
sick burn bruh
>>29744994
They said the same about japan in WW2. Up there isn't the far east for us, it's the near north.
And these days that distance is even more trivial. China is a very near, very large threat.
>>29744982
Another ad hominem. Literally all my fucking posts have been are factual analysis of the Deal. You're just a shitposter who I am now filtering.
>>29744995
Have you not seen the majority of threads on /k/? They are just memes and white people accusing/impersonating different nationalities.
Even this thread which has a specific topic and article, is full of exactly what I am talking about.
The average quality of discussion on /k/ is shit.
>>29745018
Joke's on you, I know she's dead.
And still wild in bed.
>>29745007
Not even one Chinese fighter or bomber can get within 800 miles of Australia. Even the newest island bases are too far away.
China is literally "far away" from Australia.
>>29745021
Then why are you even here, faglorde?
>>29744901
China says "China do not want Military aggression by America and Japan in SCS area.Australia and NZ should recognize the position in SCS"
Australia(New zealand, Malaysia,France and others in the world) shows China the neutral frag.
Government of China is satisfied with Autralian's good sensible decision.
>>29745036
And how much of australia's trade and economy transits though that intervening distance?
Hint: it's a fucking lot.
They don't need to hit the mainland to put australia's balls in a vice.
>>29745020
>they said the same
The Japanese were literally stationed in New Guinea. 100 miles from Darwin.
China's longest range bomber on tanks cannot get from their closest SCS island to Australia.
I'm not saying China isn't a threat. But it's not wrong to say the are "far away" as the original poster said here>>29744866
>>29745046
>chink propaganda
Beijing called, chang, your cover's blown.
>>29745062
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-26/chinese-navy-in-south-china-sea-draws-u-s-admiral-s-praise
.03% of Australia's economy is "a lot"?
Pic and link related
China/Australia economic ties are very much overrated.
>>29745065
>bomber
What is this, the '60s? Just because darwin was used as an analogy doesn't mean you should take it literally, for fuck's sake.
French here, I'm happy Australia picked DCNS and I truly believe that was the best choice for a country who has 35000 km of coastline to guard.
>>29745081
U.K.,France,Germany,Australia,Malaysia,NZ and alot of SEA nations shows China the frag.
>>29745091
>.03%
What the actual fuck are you even talking about? Are you high or just retarded?
>>29745104
there's a storm coming, frog.
we're going to need those subs
>>29745091
Chink propaganda team go home
>>29745101
???
The analogy was literally "They said that Japan was far away in WW2 as well". And then anon said "Japanese zeros bombed Darwin".
I realize its 2016 and planes can fly further, but 2016 doesn't change distances and geography.
China is literally "far away" from Australia. If you disagree then Belarus is not far away from China because Belarus is literally closer to China than Australia.
>>29745104
[La Marseillaise Intensifies]
>>29745118
>>29745129
Point out where I am wrong you fucking faggot.
I'm literally claiming China/Australia economic ties are overrated. How the fuck does that make me even pro-China???
You guys need to fucking kill yourselves.
I'm leaving this shit thread.
>>29745128
More welfare for us, more subs for you :^)
>>29745132
You have no concept of power projection and strategic value, do you?
And no, i'd not say belarus is far away. I's say it's literally irrelevant since there's nothing of value to anyone there.
The South China sea, on the other hand, and Australia's resources are comparativley of extreme interest to china.
Come back when you've learned to think past primary school level.
How come a tiny country like France have a military industry? Can't we just do our own subs?
>>29745149
And nothing of value was lost.
>>29745151
just some advice, but i would handle those muslims before they get out of control and shoot up another concert hall or bomb an airport or some crazy thing like that.
>>29745163
They have like 3 times australia's population and a hella bigger economy, that's why.
>>29745163
fighting the british for hundreds of years does wonders for ones industry
>>29745177
I'm doing my part.
>>29745163
They have the technology and expertise, boganland doesn't.
>>29745081
Are you serious?
China is very happy now with Australia's friendly answer.
China and S.Korea think what America's lose.
Small country will go to China's team obviously
China win
Australia win
U.K. win
France(of courese) win
Germany win.
New Zealand win
SEA goes China side. SEA win
Japan is bad because WW2
China starts propagadand tacitc with this news
>>29745163
You're a jail. You're not allowed to produce your own weapons.
>>29745199
holy shit they managed a picture the last time she was there, nice
>>29745199
now that is an alright looking woman
>>29745208
No, china's made pretty much everyone hate it now.
You're tolerated thanks to the fact we like cheap poorly manufactured knockoffs for consumer consumption, but you're coming very close to pissing off people one time too many.
>>29745223
This and chinese food desu
>>29745208
Transparent shitposter is transparent.
Put some goddamn effort in, at least.
SPACEBATTLES GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>29745223
The nations in world bets both of China-America.
We've come a long way in the past few years
- 12 subs
- the meme carriers
- a billion F35s
- anzac-class replacements
What's next lads, ICBMs?
>>29745163
Crazy thing is that they have one of the most complete R&D capability on the planet. The largest RCS echo chamber oustide of the US as far as I know, one the largest wind tunnel in the world as well,
The RCS of the japanese stealth prototype was tested in farnce, the stealth characteristics of the Astute propulsion as well,
They can developp pretty much everything domestically, from ground vehicles to space technology. In Europe, in think even the UK doesn't have such a complete industrial basis, because for things that will be deployed in small numbers in regards of the R&D cost it is simply too tempting to buy it from the US. The frogs are obsessed with their military independence. It does cost them a lot at times but it seems they feel it is worth it.
>>29745311
If we pick the Type 26 for the Frigate build, Macross missile massacre "frigates".
Also the OPVs that are increasingly looking small frigates/corvettes. 2k tons, a helo pad and gun+missile armament? "Patrol boat" my arse.
>>29745315
>to space technology
lel no
>>29745349
What is the M51 ISBM? You realize they were the third country to put a satellite in orbit, right? And that the early Ariane rockets were basically 100% french in terms of tech.
>>29745311
More than a token number of tanks?
The whitepaper indicated heavy AA and rocket artillery, so Patriots and some kind of MLRS? A fuckload of new IFVs, too.
>>29745349
>*ICBM
>>29745370
Does Aus really need more tanks though? Seems like your Abrams performed well enough in Afghanistan, and 60 or however many you have is sufficient for dealing with anything in Aus unless China invades you
>>29745315
French engineer schools are quite decent, and they have some very good uni as well.
>>29745395
We didn't send any to afghanistan.
We haven't deployed our tanks anywhere since vietnam.
>>29745412
Did Australia even have armor over there? If they're not being deployed overseas, what do you need more for?
>>29745428
>>29745428
We deployed bushmasters, for what that's worth.
Maybe a bit more invested in armour will be incentive to actually use it - gods only know our new LHDs are ideal for deploying armour to someplace that needs an asskicking.
>>29739555
What is this, a submarine for ants?
>>29745428
they've ust been sitting around since Nam
fucking leopard tanks got mothballed without seeing action too.
France had our backs when the Soviets snubbed us at that dealing-with-ISIS conference last year.
I'm totally fine with this.
>>29745491
only Leo1A5s, be thankful they never saw action
>>29745502
Eh, they were fine when we bought them.
Not replacing them until '07 was not the smartest move ever, though.
China probably told Australia to not buy from Japan or they would cut them off.
>>29745499
>ruskies going it alone on isis
she'll be right mate
>>29745502
seems a shame to have wasted the cash for them though
>>29745505
>having ww2 tier tanks till 07
fuck were we thinking.
>>29745512
Japs were touting better range and 1000 times folded steel to cut through asian islands in one stroke.
we'll see how it plays out
>>29745349
What is Airbus Defense and Space?
>>29745512
The French just put up the best deal overall, it wasn't just for Subs, it was to let us build them for them jerbs
They should have gone nuclear and bought some Virginia class subs.
>>29745583
Virginias have never been exported though, even if the Aussies wanted them it's possible we would have turned them down
>>29745311
want some Mistrals?
>>29745619
We can add a some FAMASES and a bunch of muslimes for target practice
>>29745533
German for most part.
>>29745801
Nope.
The french took over and drained the german aerospace industry. The same will now happen with the armed vehicle sector after KMW and Nexter merged last year.
>>29745636
>FAMAS
I know they're convicts, but come on.
>>29744815
Thanks bro. Holy shit the amount of BS this guy did spew is ashtonizing.
>They tried it with the Eurofighter when they DEMANDED that Eurofighter be primarily produced and upgraded in France
>Gripen was replacing Mirages all over Europe
>I personally wouldn't trust France with my national defence.
This is what poo in loo actually believes.
This dumbfuck doesn't even know the Mirage 2000H are considered the front-line strike fighter in India.
>>29739555
Cool, now we'll get Baguette Class Subs.
>>29748001
Toasted or Fresh?
>>29748192
Toasted.
With Sesame Seed Sonar Deflectors.
