Any bowfags here?
Can someone explain me what the advantages/disadvantages are for these different draw/release methods. I think thumb-draw seems to be the overall better method because you can shoot from horseback and hold the draw for longer time with less cost on stamina, even though you might have accuracy problems initially.
Why did the West never invented/used this method?
>>29584794
a gun owns both of them
the only draw you need to learn is trigger pull
>>29584821
a crossbow owns both of them
the only draw you need to learn is trigger pull
>>29584821
Has anyone told you that you are a fucking asshole?
If someone's talking about what thier preferred vegetarian meal is, do you butt in saying that steak is better? If someone's asking for the best route to go for a walk, do you tell them to got for a drive? If someone's looking at a painting, do you run up to them and tell them loudly that a photograph is better?
By leaping in to state the fucking obvious, that a gun is better than two types of archery used 5 centuries ago, All you're contributing isa great big flashing sign saying LOOK AT ME! IM A CUNT.
Is its any wonder gun owners get a bad reputation, when assholes like you continue being oxygen thieves?
>>29584898
Steak is better, your argument is invalidated
>>29584898
steak is better than vegetables though
>>29584821
spoken like a true american.
uncultured swine.
>>29584794
Because the Western war bow has a significantly heavier draw weight. A horse (recurve) bow is designed to be quick firing and accurate from horse back. This means everything about it is lighter: materials, projectiles, draw weight, everything. The long bow is designed to penetrate armor at a distance from a static position, usually with a draw weight of close to two hundred pounds. There is no way a person can repeatedly, effectively draw that much weight using only their thumb without some kind of mechanical advantage.
>>29584942
>>29584964
Yeah, that one late Manchu-bow had 80-90 pounds of draw weight, actually.
I just love how they look like, with those long levers/siya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xBUg1_zHK0
>>29584917
>>29584928
for you fatass
>>29584964
"Detailed analysis of the War bows recovered from the Tudor warship Mary Rose, which sank in battle in 1545 with an almost complete inventory including hundreds of bows and thousands of arrows, show the draw weights ranging from 80lbs to 180lbs with the most prolific being in the 140lb range."
http://www.theenglishwarbowsociety.com/warbow_EN.html
>>29584942
>Western war bow
Define "Western War Bow"
Because not all of them had the fucking longbow. Hit eastern Europe and they use the same shit Nomads and Muslims used.
>>29585028
>average English longbow
>warbow
Pick one
Nothing can beat the Qin-Dynasty Crossbows with 230lbs draw weight and bronze lever-sight.
>>29584794
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk
Stop what you're doing and watch this video, before you make any of the wrong decisions or buy into the hype that is modern archery. Lars Andersen has studied the actual historical texts that warrior archers learned from, and compiled a style created from accurate, practicality driven teachings. Modern archers will want to load you up with all kinds of compounds bows, sights, quivers, carbon fiber arrows, etc. These are all generic consumer products that will not actually help you grow as an archer, rather hinder you by building bad habits and reliance on them.
Seriously, don't fall into the modern myths of archery, the study is changing and Lars is leading the way, following him is following thousands of years of far more effective archers than we can hope to become today.
>>29585109
Not this faggot again.
>>29585109
Great post.
>>29585109
oh look, its the joke of the archery world
>>29585109
Good starting, but he misrepresents several aspects to appear more impressive, that's also based off the Turkish form of archery
>>29585033
>>29585074
I never claimed that all long bows were war bows you stupid niggers. The second bow in OP's photo is a straight bow of some kind and looks rather like a long bow to me, so I responded under the assumption that it was supposed to be a long war bow.
>>29584794
probably because it doesnt matter, archers were trained en masse
I'm looking into getting into this, should I get a PSE stinger or Bear Cruzer, and should I get the RTH or buy my own shit? This will not see very hard use, only backyard range practice and maybe some hunts, but not very hard ones at that.
>>29585203
Longbows were more common than warbows.
It makes sense to complete common techniques with common bows.
Warbows are a separate category all their own
>>29585139
It should be told to the world =)
>>29585166
Thank you.
>>29585171
>joke
You looking in a mirror?
>>29585176
Wrong, it's ancient collective archery skills seen from old texts from around the world.
>>29585825
>looks at a few pictures that support his opinion
>references mythological archery
>ignores the mass of historical evidence saying otherwise
>ignores all common knowledge that is standard because it works
>Does goofy-looking infomercial flails
Literally this bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCaQLnR7B10
>>29585086
Uh, no.
You're thinking medieval siege crossbows. 1250lbs proven, 3000lbs estimated.
Personalty I want a 420lb with gafa.
>>29588061
>medieval siege crossbows
cool shit, but I wouldnt want to carry that thing around.
those Qin-crossbows could be drawn by a single man using his legs and arms, not needing a whole team for that. And they had, for that time very advanced, aiming devices as well.
Thumb draw also offers the advantage of arrows resting on the outside of the bow. Since the torque imparted by the thumb is opposite to that of the Olympic draw. Can draw from quiver and shoot much faster without feeding arrows into the bow everytime
>>29588272
Can be harder to aim that way too, though, which is why it's mainly a cavalry instinctive shooting technique.
>>29588100
That's about as powerful as a most common composite crossbows. Most medieval bows were better.
Here are some links to give you guys a basic Idea of crossbows and their spanning mechanisms;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEOeZTV9wiA1250lb windlass crossbow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ovVTHpgLg350lb crossbow using belt an claw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GozSx3PMO6814 century munition grade crossbow (The picture in my first post)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjYQEyC4m10450lb craunquin hunting bow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP8bqIgd5roGastrophetes or greek belly bow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se_N8CrooPYBalasrino or assassins bow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIkxyjVu9gc350lb Munitions Grade bow with Gafa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk5drua6sK411 century hunting bow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-8DQYLjHJE12 century crossbow
Medieval Style 100 Pound PVC Crossbow with Skane or Pin Lock for under $10;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU_tc1CWIrU Introduction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQQjY-EOvdM&index=2&list=PLmZjohx-3PZkLsnEJ8kQpyI1rNL-Kr2SK Part 1 of construction.
And a discover channel style episode on crossbows, note it does have several errors but it gets the job done in a entertaining fashion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WDXdKCe-yw&index=6&list=LLu1yuWzxWaj-nHNJCJQm0zg
>>29584794
the pros/cons are basically as you imagined.
>easier to hold/more secure
>inherently less accurate
vs
>more precise
>harder to hold
Eastern nations tended to favor horseback combat in the larger plains of Asia, so it would make sense that they would opt for a style that is more secure. This allowed them to put more arrows in a given place while being jostled by a horse. An arrow that they fail to draw means an arrow that isnt potentially hitting its mark.
In opposition, many European nations fought with more foot-soldiers, and from fortified positions. In this scenario one would have time to more precisely draw their weapon, and would not be at as high a risk of accidentally loosing an arrow.
>steak is better, though.
>>29588272
Have you ever shot a bow?
>arrows resting on the outside of the bow
Can be done with both positions
>torque of thumb opposite of the Olympic draw
I'm not sure what you mean. You're pulling the string back the same direction. Clarification is needed
>Can draw from quiver and shoot much faster without feeding arrows into the bow everytime
I'd say the distance from quiver to bow is the same, if you're shooting from the "outside" (which you could do with both draws) so drawing from the quiver to bow would be the same time.
And if you mean knocking an arrow into the bow by feeding, you'd have to do that with both draws anyway, in order to transfer the energy to the arrow by releasing it
Now, I could see the thumb drawn position being easier to knock an arrow, but with practice anyone could do it quickly with both positions
>>29584930
>*tips fedor*
>>29588489
Med draw rolls the string towards you, Mongolian away on the release. Nocking the arrow on the same side the string will roll to prevents it from hitting the riser and getting thrown all willy-nilly
>>29588381
medieval crossbow bolts had shit range, though. poundage isnt everything. those Qin-crossbows could fire full-sized heavy arrows at ranges that outmatched that of traditional bows.
>>29588578
Not really. They are about equal.
>>29588489
Think about which way the string wants to twist in the differing positions. Olympic draw rests inside the bow so the arrow torques into the bow and remains secure. Thumb draw is opposite, thus on the outside of the bow is where it draws into
>>29585015
>these tears
>>29584928
>>29584917
As someone who hates vegetarians/vegans who talk about it, this guy>>29584898
is correct.
You people are literally no better than the vegetarians when you talk like this.
>>29584794
As for this, I think the difference is west/east. I've only done finger, never tried thumb. My immediate concern is that with thumb you only have one contact, with fingers you have extra support, in case a finger slips.
The thumb alone is stronger in that hold position than the three finger draw as well. If you can get over the different sight picture, it's a superior method all around
>>29589208
It's at its most optimum on horseback with a shorter bow that brings the string to a much smaller angle.
>>29585015
Sorry grapes nigga right here!
But honestly I enjoy shooting a bow once in a while. I haven't done archery in a long time.
But steak is better. Especially if you get a nice dry rub going with the right spices. Buddy of mine used to really massage that shit in and so when it cooked it really released that flavor into the meat.
I bet you also pee sitting down and cry about dolphins or some other faggot shit.
Asian thumb release is better suited to the short nock to nock of a horse bow.
The three finger draw is needed for the 120# draw of the English longbow.
>>29589330
Not that Anon but
>I bet you also pee sitting down
>he doesn't want to be comfy
>he wants single drops of pee on his floor
Standing in public and sitting at home is the objectively best way to pee.
>>29588986
Is steak not better?
>>29584860
Cross bow was fine, doing it from horse back would be a pain in the ass. Plus rate of fire was complete shit.
Reverse draw (Cross)bows are the best.
It's like a bullpup bow.
Because of the way they pull the power stroke is a lot longer so you can get the same power with a lot less lbs drawpower.
>>29588578
Power stroke + poundage is pretty much everything.
Bows tend to have a longer power stroke so they can achieve the same velocities with less poundage.
But not all bows and crossbows are the same.
>>29592145
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdtU9mflqxo
>>29592145
But they are ugly....
>>29584821
What a dumbfuck
>>29592692
So are glocks but they are still good at what they do
>>29584794
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOpOqgotJZc&nohtml5=False
Lajos Kassai is boss that Lars guy is a douche.
/k/'s favorite bows?
Mine; Manchurian recurve masterrace.
>>29593572
That's a beautiful bow!
I've got a current basic Cartel recurve that I've learnt the basics of archery with. Nothing special but I've got my heart set on getting something more traditional like a longbow which is my current love interest.
Any particular longbow brands that /k/ recommends?
>>29585086
>>29588100
M8, the Qin Period Crossbows were the weakest Chinese crossbows. Largely because they were just Recurve Bows mounted on a stock. The primary purpose of Warring States Period crossbows was to field as many missile infantry as possible within as little time as possible, not some dedicated anti-armor shit. Pic related is from Early Han, but it illustrates my point beautifully.
The design improved over the centuries, started by the abandonment of making a separate bow altogether and tying it to the stock, and by the 800's, Chinks adopted Muslim Crossbow tech which had some influence in Europe due to the appearance of better armor - notably chainmail and its inclusion in Chinese panoplies. Latter Chink crossbows included steel bowstaves n shit.
Or the alternate design which was to glue as many layers of bowstaves as possible to create this hefty looking wooden crossbow.
>>29593736
I thought one of the primary roles of the crossbow during Qin and Han were to outrange the horse-archers of the Xiongnu turk raiders? Something that can defeat them before they could close in to shoot back with their horse-bows.
>>29584794
Pick your favourite draw and practice it forever. So long as you have the diligence to practice with it repeatedly, and you're not shooting in some weird way that can be objectively described as "wrong" and offers you no purchase for stable release, you'll be fine.
The guy who did my instructor qualification gave a bullshitty story about some guy who only had a single finger. Conveniently, he didn't know where the range was, or the guy's name, or what bows he or the cripple were using. Don't do that.
I didn't answer your question at all, but it would be a waste to delete this.
>>29589330
>I bet you also pee sitting down
Everyone does this at home, I imagine. Do you really want to take the risks of
>missing altogether
>V stream
>triple stream
>unpredictable trajectory start stream
>the vertical shot for no reason
>slight spray on the seat, even if you hit center gold?
It's just not worth it. Of course, using a urinal when you're not at home is fine.
>>29593758
No. Its really to be the first line of battle.
Crossbows were used way before the Nomad threat. During the Warring States they opened up the battle with volleys. In the Terra Cotta Army- in which the statues were theorized to be a battle formation- the crossbowmen were at the front and in the wings. Behind them were halberdiers and searmen.
But yeah, crossbowmen were important in the Xiongnu war due to missilefaggotry with both sides. That war led to sophisticated shit such as rotating volleys and mobile fortifications A la hussites.
>>29594101
Question now is who actually used (if they are real) those large crossbows that had to be loaded with your feet/entire body while sitting on the ground. I remember reading something about huge manportable crossbows used by the Qin for real long-range kiting. But they werent siege weapons, but just large crossbows that could shoot full-sized heavy arrows instead of bolts.
>>29594126
Everyone during the Warring States did. The advantage of Qin was that King Yinzheng built a fuck-tremendous military organization and used a lot of cavalry thanks to his & his ancestors experience fighting the Western Rong Barbarians.
>>29584898
>>29588100
No the ones I mentioned are easily man portable. Pic related.
>>29594370
They did have some crazy ones though. Think of this as a medieval 20mm anzio.
>>29584898
5 centuries ago a gun would still beat either bow stance
>>29594471
Five centuries from now, your female relatives will still be cum gargling whores, but that's not relevant to a thread about bows, either.
>>29594370
Ah, the windlass. Shitty rate of fire but powerful enough that plate armored knights need to worry about it.
>>29594479
Now now, don't pick on the handicapped.
>>29584794
The western method seems a lot more awkward than the eastern method.
>>29594986
Not really. It's easier to aim with, and just as quick and accurate. The Mongolian draw technique is better for the rougher ride of horseback.
