So I finally just looked into how much China is claiming to be their South China Sea. I initially thought it was just a few islands and shit, not a whole fucking chunk of the ocean all the way up to the faces of three countries.
What the fuck is Malaysia, Philippines, and Vietnam currently militarily doing to prepare for this shit? Cause I really doubt the US will start a war over this shit unless all the other Asian countries promise the US solid gold dancers to line the deck of all our supercarriers.
>>29544346
That area you have on your map right now is the waterway by which 40% of all the world's trade passes through and has a massive potential for natural gas, oil and rare earths. We've gone to war for less.
>>29544358
>>29544353
why can't we start long term "contribution" and "advising" to those three countries and getting them a solid naval force?
I mean, shit, if we go to war over the south china seas, shouldn't we at least have these guys backing up our asses one way or another?
>>29544353
>Veitnam asks for US military to protect them.
>US forces get overrun by Chinese human wave
>uS forces fall back into the jungle
>US forces begin to use old veitcong tunnels as staging areas for hit and run attacks on Chinks
>50,000 dead Soldiers roll over in their graves
>This becomes a new power source for US energy
>The war must continue to keep the dead Soldiers turning
>in the suprisingly well lit grim future there is only war.
>>29544372
Do we even have the fucking money to do that?
im pretty sure the US would be claiming as much as an ocean as it could if it was labeled "South US Sea"
and im pretty sure no one would give a fuck
so, is it just down to whether China shoots at a US naval vessel/plane/etc that's operating in that area at this point?
Because I really don't see how this will be settled peacefully unless one side goes through massive economic/social collapse or China actually goes into talks with the other SE asian countries.
>>29544431
does /k/ not get the quints?
>>29544442
oh it ddidnt happen yet
>>29544444
>>29544346
>Cause I really doubt the US will start a war over this shit
Let china control >50% of the worlds sea commerce?
FUUUUUUUCK NOOOO
>>29544426
I don't know. We made a huge mess that is the Middle East and all the whining and bullshit got smothered by the big problem of the media bombarding the populace with 1 issue, they become desensitized or the government does 1 or 2 things for the public to feel good, then we all move on to something else.
In other words, I really don't put much faith into the general public of the US unless it's some REAL shit, like Kim Kardashian commits 1st degree murder.
>>29544405
Witnessed.
>>29544461
Just call them fifty cent.
They get paid to shitpost, what a day to be alive.
>i do it for free(dom)
>>29544405
>surprisingly well lit
Fuck me that was good
>>29544353
Money and wealth in the form of fish and oil.
Articles in The Economists that few have cared about showed that the Chinese have systematically lied about remaining fisheries resources. These are seriously depleted and China is desperate for such resources. That is also why they are trying to move in on Arctic control organisations.
Also it is believed to be an enormous amount of oil and could offset the Middle East as the main source and thus finally let the region sink into its past irrelevance. China is also desperate for oil.
Oil exploration rights to the Paracell islands have been granted by both Vietnam and China, already causing a lot of trouble. At this rate China will grant exploration rights in Washington DC next.
>>29544405
>>29544447
fuck off back to /b/
>>29544435
A whole lotta sabre rattling going on the the moment, that's for sure.
It's also been pointed out that China's got quite a surplus of young men...
How much of it is putting up an act for the home front, how much is political chicken, and how much people are actually willing to go through with, well, the future will tell I guess.
>>29544466
>>i do it for flee(dom)
Fixed it for you.
So I was thinking /k/.
Why is there no corporate military structure ?
A PMC that secures business interests instead of national interests. Shell wants to exploit gas ? Send in the helocarriers and AShM.
>>29544544
>fixed it for you
Not very good, homophones are tough.
Try again.
>>29544544
>It's also been pointed out that China's got quite a surplus of young men...
This maybe from one anecdotal chinese man's point of view, but a lot of mainland chinese people, especially those from the countryside, are only really looking out for themselves or their family.
The big uptick of low-middle to middle class brought a lot of people into the world stage with really outdated notions of "wealth". I still have old aged family who insists we eat sharkfin soup on special occasions because that was the hallmark of wealth back in the day. (Sharkfin has no taste, it's fucking cartilage.)
Buick is fucking big in China. Wine demand is out of this world, even if most can't even tell me why they like X or Y wine ("it's wine, dear! It's drink of the wealthy!"). And Anything that has a whiff of classic perception of wealth sells huge there because it's the image or face of being well off.
This all ties back to those millions of men that you mentioned.
You really think those men will put their lives on the line in a war they most likely don't understand and not for some patriotic reasons, but for purely self beneficial and social status reasons?
I mean, you can argue a majority of what I said are the same for any country, even the US, but I wholeheartedly feel the US and China has way different cultural approaches on this and from someone who isn't born in this nation, I'd gladly die for it, whereas I'd just mind my own business if I were raised in China.
>>29544346
Americans who watch their own news channels don't realise that what is shown in that image is what china claims as its exclusive economit zone (200 miles from shore) , not its territorial waters (12 miles from shore).
China would have no ability (or reason) to interfere with trade.They just want to have the resources - something they will get because no one can stop them now.
This is america's Suez. At no point will they intervene because as long as china leaves the trade alone there is no reason for the US to care other than to stop pacific nations getting upset. (they have similar claims but don't have the military to do what china is).
>>29544606
>(or reason) to interfere with trade.They just.
Help domestic producers by stifleing competition.
>>29544616
You're living in a fantasy where China NEEDS to be the badguy at all costs.
If they wanted to do that - they could do it now. the exclusive economic zone gives no powers over shipping in the area.
>>29544643
Shoo shoo PRCIDF. Taiwan is real China.
>>29544643
Chinas claimed eez does not conform with international eez maritime law at all.
>>29544616
That would be a ridiculously roundabout way of doing it when you consider all the other options available to achieve that objective.
>>29544676
Because the law was written by countries that have never found themselves in this situation.
Pretty much every nation in the region is making similar claims, and if Vietnam was the dominant military power then they would be doing exactly the same thing.
China is strong enough to take what they want, so they have. That's how the world works.
>>29544643
haven't they interfered with freedom of transit for US warships?
>>29544765
They interrogate ships and planes within 12 miles of the islands. And those outside on course to enter it.
The US is acting in a similar manner to how the USSR / Russia acts with airspace. Fly right at it until the other side reacts then skirt around the edge. But the US is going a step further and flying over the islands.
>>29544788
I thought this was always a thing, even in cold war days between soviet and american ships, just this time its between american and china.
>>29544857
It has been a thing since the start of the cold war.
But it is being portrayed by media in the US like its something new china is doing just to bully them.
Historically that is Chinese lands.
Philippines want to steal Chinese land without any historical data backing their claim. Its preposterous. Chinese military has been impressive in defending the South China Sea from America and other hanger ons. Currently an LCS got damaged in Singapore.
>>29544920
PRCIDF pls.
>>29544729
So what? We should just look the other way on aggressive Chinese claims to large areas of territory? Just the Rhineland right? I'm sure Hitler will stop after Czechoslovakia.
Things can become part of the status quo and still be wrong
>>29544729
>Because the law was written by countries that have never found themselves in this situation.
China coastline and legal territory is nowhere near the bulk of the water claimed by china.
Its hogwash.
>>29544346
First, which par of CHINA WILL GROW LARGE don't you understand.
Second, China has historically staked their claim on the maximum possible area. After some diplomacy they agree to give up significant parts of their claims to, so they end up with 50/50 split but in the process China appears to be magnanimous and diplomatic, have done it with Myanmar, Russia, Pakistan.
>>29544431
new trip testerfag pls go
>>29544920
I really don't get the "historical claims" argument. That's not how shit works just about anywhere else.
>>29545062
Like Putin and the ethnic russians dude, just a flimsy premise no one really buys
>>29544358
Basically this. And going around it would add up to hundreds of millions of dollars pretty quickly.
>>29544435
Right now, it's pretty much a small-scale version of MAD. A US-China war would see the world's #1 and 2 militaries going at it, plus nukes on both sides. So both sides take it a bit easy around potential flash-points.
>>29544372
>>29544415
>>29544426
See the above bit. A US-China war would be disastrous for both nations, so nobody wants to start one. Even just more economic disagreement would be bad for both countries. The US and China rely on one another economically, far more than either side wants to admit, so even just a slowdown of trade would hurt both nations badly. So on the one hand there's tensions because of china's pretty obvious sea-grab with some close US allies nearby, but on the other hand even a minor disruption in trade would be really bad for both sides, so there's an uneasy standoff.
Best case it gets resolved diplomatically with the US befitting massively.
Worst case, war between China and the US, and who knows what'll happen if that goes all-out.
Medium and most likely scenario is that things continue very roughly as is, China continues to control the area but doesn't go all out in a way that the US feels forced to act, and the US keeps ships in the area just outside of official Chinese control watching for anything it deems worthy of a counter-strike. Maybe these tensions will be somewhat cleared up with some international agreements, but maybe not.
But until a real treaty gets signed by both sides, it's basically economic MAD for each side.
>>29544346
To be fair it is called the South CHINA sea.
>>29544804
because the US doesn't recognize those islands as legitimate Chinese territory. to coordinate with the Chinese is to say that de facto or de jure they are legitimate Chinese territory, and to test the depth of Chinese convictions there.
>>29545062
Chinese fishermen were aware of the islands for hundreds of years, they used it as a rest spot. They considered it part of their territory.
Then nations on the other side of the planet tell you that its not part of your territory.
You and the nations in the region think it belongs to someone. You're the only one that can do something about it. So you state that they are yours, you build on them and are prepared to defend your territory.
I couldn't care less if Vietnam etc get cucked. We ( the west) have done far worse.
>>29544956
Let me know when China sponsors / organises rebellions and invades for regime change.
If you want to police the world start the most guilty parties. Once you're done with Russia, america and Saudi Arabia let me know.
>>29545103
Don't say we the West because you are not Western you are some Chinese shill. You talk about regime change and the evils of the West? You country is built on the bodies of millions dead at the hands of Mao and the oppression of all ethnic minorities that aren't Han.
>>29545103
Guilt is not relative. Wrong will be wrong no matter which world power does it. China's got an eye on expansion and an unfriendly history in the region. To do something bad and say it is not as bad as the actions of others, and thusly not worthy of punishment, is the kind of thing little children do.
>>29545103
That's bullshit. By China's logic, European empires could claim the same stake on their former colonies in Asia because they had presence there for centuries.
China's simply using their past uses of unclaimed territory as a pretense to take these territory, even though these territories could technically be used by other connected nations as well. It's basically the flimsy "we think use it the most, so it's ours" justification.
>>29545091
India doesn't own the entire Indian ocean...
>>29545103
China's done plenty of shady things. Tibet and the Uyghurs for two examples.
>>29545125
I'm British - but have fun with your straw man.
>>29545129
If you want something you take it, you back it up with your military. This is why we have countries that look the way they do. It's how the world works, and always has. Unless you think we are in a special era where nothing bad will happen again ?
>>29545143
>That's bullshit. By China's logic, European empires could claim the same stake on their former colonies in Asia because they had presence there for centuries.
But they weren't their first.
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands belong to the UK because sailors visited it and used it as a base. It was never settled but it gives the UK a claim to 1,709,400 km2 of Antarctica.
>>29545149
So the world works as though it were run by little children and you don't see the problem? Do you think that might really makes right? If your neighbor can take your things, then it's ok with you that he do so?
To have a claim for sovereignty live land based territory China must demonstrate exclusive, effective and continuous control. It can't do this for any of the islands.
Artificial islands attract no sovereignty but they do attract territorial jurisdiction in a small area i can't remember off the top of my head. This jurisdiction is to allow for maritime safety i.e. no one can fuck with your light house
Sea based territorial claims consist of 12NM of territorisl sea plus 200NM of EEZ where territorial jurisdiction can be exercised. The continental shelf can also be claimed which in the SCS is all off the relevant territory. But sea claims are dependent on land claims and China has weak land claims when compared to the Philippines and Vietnam.
>>29545081
and the argys wanting the falklands
>>29545143
No they can't. The principle of self determination trumps colonial era sovereignty. If the new power is legitimate according to UNGA res 1514 then they have the claim
>>29545179
How did a small, poor, European nation become the most powerful empire the world has ever seen ? We went out and took what we wanted it and fought those that opposed it.
The first and second world wars were wars over territory. The Falklands and first gulf war were fought over territory.
People fight over what is theirs, it doesn't matter if you or anyone else dont like it - its how the world works.
>>>29545129
>If you want something you take it, you back it up with your military. This is why we have countries that look the way they do. It's how the world works, and always has. Unless you think we are in a special era where nothing bad will happen again ?
You're correct that this is how the world was but the use or threat of use of force as a method of territorial acquisition was specifically outlawed in international law after 1945.
That's why claims for territory aren't recogniser despite a war ending 50 years ago
>>29545205
Half true. Britain became an empire under the old system. Whereas the Gulf War was to remove an occupying power who sought to annex territory by conquest. Two completely different legal systems in two different eras
>>29544346
Malaysian here, our military power is only capable of holding a defense battle/war. We don't have the manpower to counter china in terms of manpower and industrial strength.
Our only hope is that Chinas' economy bubble bursts and they forget about the islands and leave us alone.
>>29545207
Tibet, Portuguese India, Sikkim, Ogaden, Rockal, Western New Guinea, East Timor,
Western Sahara, West Bank, East Jerusalem, Golan Heights, Kuwait, Crimea are all places that have been annexed after 1950.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation
If they pulled that stunt in Taiwanese, Japanese and South Korean waters they would be annihilated within hours but since Southeast Asia is pretty much useless to America they let the Chinese run amok as long as they don't go full retard.
Southeast Asian claimants know that America will never do anything other than words of "deep concern" and their politicians are too busy getting rich with Chinese shekels to actually do anything.
Take the Philippines for example, they are America's ally in the region yet they don't receive the treatment Israel, South Korea and Japan get if they get threatened. If America was really serious in stopping the Chinese from taking over they'd instantly arm them even with mothballed ships and aircraft. To twist the knife even deeper they could skip the theatrics and bullshit with Vietnam and do the same but we know America won't do that since these countries are expendable.
Ideally these countries should arm themselves enough to the point that China would think twice of fucking with them. No one wants to be the Syria, Georgia or Ukraine in any scenario. Funny enough this is how Asia got reeled into WW2 with China taking Japan's place as the aggressor.
>>29545088
>Medium and most likely scenario is that things continue very roughly as is, China continues to control the area but doesn't go all out in a way that the US feels forced to act
So in other words, the most likely scenario is letting china get what it wants, so long as it doesn't get everything it wants.
Well, good thing Trump will be able to 'make a deal' with china!
>>29545278
Why are you making it so easy for me?
>Goa
Soviet Union vetoed the SC resolution nullifying annexation but Indian sovereignty had been recognised because Portugal ceded it following the carnation revolution.
Tibet, Dutch New Guinea and Sikkam all remain open disputes.
Gaza was never annexed by any power following the expiry of the British Mandate.
The West Bank was annexed by Jordan on 1950 and only recognised by the UK and Pakistan. Israel has annexed part of it but this isn't recognised internationally.
The golan heights were annexed by Israel with a basic law in 1981? But this was nullified by the UN SC immediately.
Kuwait remains a state not annexed by Iraq
Crimea hasn't been recognised by anyone who matters but it's more complex that the west likes to admit. Needs long post to explain but there was some legitimacy with the referendum.
>>29544920
Historically this isn't land at all. Some were just a single rock poking out of the water.
>>29545343
Not just a single Rock, a single Rock poking out of the water at the lowest of low tide
>>29545221
Actually, an economic downturn could exacerbate China's assertiveness, because with a decline in quality of life from a downtown you have a more restless population, and China would need any excuse to distract from that.
>Malaysian here
>China's maritime claim effectively bisects the peninsular and Borneon halves of Malaysia.
If that's not a dick move I don't know what else is. China has no place stretching that fucking far.
>>29545297
No, more like China controls the area nominally, but it allows freedom of navigation or it gets the geopolitical hose.
>>29545365
>with a decline in quality of life from a downturn you have a more restless population
What the hell was I typing?
>>29545334
>there was some legitimacy with the referendum.
No, there wasn't. Unless you call Jimmy Carter being Jimmy Carter somehow legitimizing when only Belacucks are the only ones to recognize it or say it was a legitimate election.
>>29545343
That is enough for CHina. Anyone who doesn't agree is blind and is mentally retarded so the US government must remove their 2nd Amendment rights.
>>29545375
You missed a comma, but it makes sense Malaysian bro but just remeber that SINGAPORE WILL GROW LARGER!
>>29545390
It's all about self determination. Even the most blind American can see that ethnic Russians living in a region that was Russia up until the 60s voting to become part of Russia again fits into the self determination model used since WW2.
where the difficulty is is with the armed invasion by Russia. So you have two established principles placed against each other
>>29545429
I'm not even from Malaysia tho. It's just a quote.
>>29544604
well, I guess it's time to take my monocle and waistcoat business internation
>>29544920
>Historically that is Chinese lands.
In that case Japan and Mongolia will have to sit down and start working out how to split Manchuria, Mengjiang and the Chinese coastline between them, since historically those bits have belonged to both. And I guess whatever bits they can't decide on will default to Taiwan.
CHINA ISNT AS STABLE AS U MIGHT THINK. THEYRE GONNA FALL. HARD. WATCH.
>>29544604
>This maybe from one anecdotal chinese man's point of view, but a lot of mainland chinese people, especially those from the countryside, are only really looking out for themselves or their family.
Surplus in the eyes of the party, not in some way that the people in general would feel makes a war ok.
Not enough women to go around = a lot of disappointed, angry young men = unrest, crime, people thinking life under the brutal, incompetent, corrupt party isn't the best imaginable.
So the party looks out for itself, and goes looking for a nice big meatgrinder of a war to balance the gender distribution.
>>29545626
Dont forget that those seeking to pretendto be wealthy often fall into the trap of thinking war is a romantically glorious thing.
They would blindly march off to a war on little or no justification, much in the same way Europe did in WWI.
Even here im the US we are setting ourselves up in this way. Too many people coddled frm the harsh reality that is man, they believe that they can go to war and never be faced by any real danger while laughing and having a party with their friends, wearing many medals.
>>29545626
>>29546431
It really does come down to how ideological indoctrinated they are. It peaked in the days of Mao, but it's harder to tell during the 1989 demonstrations and now when people are more preoccupied with individualistic consumerism.
That said, with the number of able-bodied men in the population, China's military won't have a shortage of manpower anyway.
>>29544920
>Historically that is Chinese lands.
WE
>>29544405
>>29544346
Until china actually attacks one of those countries or our guys we really have no reason to go to war with china because that image is nothing but just bluff from them but if they do attack us then we will go to war with them.
>>29546568
China is an eternal victim what China want to say desu.
>>29544920
AI YAHHHHHHHHHHH
GOOD GWEILO
NEVER FORGET THE SIX TRILLION AT NANKING
>>29544920
>Philippines want to steal Chinese land without any historical data backing their claim.
> China appeals to somebody's sympathy.
Philippines is bullying innocent China now. Philips kicked China's ass first, China did nothing.
>>29544920
>Chinese military has been impressive in defending the South China Sea from America and other hanger ons.
>China threatens to attack SEAsia
China stronk!! Weak SEAsia can not say something agains Chinat!!
We China is Justcie, so You Weak SEAsia cant say anthing against China
>>29544920
>Currently an LCS got damaged in Singapore.
No US Navy vessesls in SeAsia, You Weak SEasia must shut your mouth!
based China uses this always
>>29546698
>Chinaman version of the Happy Merchant meme
Had a chuckle at this one.
>>29544346
Look at all the claims other countries have made, it's just as bad. Asia isn't just begging for a large regional conflict.
>>29544676
Neither does the US.
International law = meme
>>29547348
No, i would say china is worse than all of them.
>>29545182
No one has land claims other than the ROC on Taiping Island and Malaysia on their little island in the far far southwest.
The rest were reefs or rock outcrops.
The Viets are jumping in the island building game now. It's a shitshow.
>>29547386
Actually, it does.
>>29544346
ITT: Children & People who don't live in the region.
>>29544372
>why can't we start long term "contribution" and "advising" to those three countries and getting them a solid naval force?
The US Already does for the Philippines...since the end of WWII.
The SCS dispute is old as fuck, dating back to the 1940's and a few decades older.
>>29544353
>It's a big enough deal that fucking Vietnam of all countries wants our military in the area.
Wrong.
Vietnam wants the US military in the area. But at the same time due to the Vietnam War (you know, the war that built the legitimacy of the current government) they don't want to be in direct alliance with the US.
For this, they have the Flips. Who are allies of the US. If Viets and Flips are buddies then Viets are by extension, Amerifat buddies.
The Flips see this as well. Problem is: these two countries are also in competition with the said territories.
So the ride never ends.
>>29545288
Except these waters are no one's.
The only international law is the UNCLOS clause which only some nations have signed.
That gives sovereignty over 12nm from your coast.
But after all is said and done, it's simply a question of what you consider your waters.
>>29545351
Some rocks were out of the water at all times.
>>29545404
It's also enough for the RoC, Vietnam, and the Phillipines.
It's all meaningless in the end. International law doesn't mean a thing outside of "muh public opinion". Only what you can enforce.
>>29547392
RoC has the exact same 9 dash line. Actually, the PRC takes their claims from the RoC.
Flips claim what Viets claim. Viets claim the whole area. Malaysia claims what Viets and Flips claim. Brunei claims what Flips claim.
Who is "worse" is a matter of opinion. They all fuck with each other and complain when the big player shows up to beat them at their game.
>>29547386
China becomes stronk now they can say
>International law = meme
China starts war game between others including us
>>29547437
The US has not signed the UNCLOS treaty.
It's hypocritical. And it shows that international law is a meme.
>>29547601
International law has no legal force you stupid fuck. Are you seriously arguing this? Where's the world government to come in and tell China to fuck off?
The US has not signed UNCLOS. It is hypocritical to lecture othe nations about "international law" when the global superpower doesn't follow it.
>>29545288 >>29547599
WW2 made this despute and PRC(Muh, China is victorious nation) claims that about after WW2 regime.
>>29544606
>Americans who watch their own news channels don't realise that what is shown in that image is what china claims as its exclusive economit zone (200 miles from shore) , not its territorial waters (12 miles from shore).
>Implying PRC gives a fuck about UNCLOS
Those claims include reefs and islands, I would think they are territorial.
>>29547666
The dispute is from the 1920's when the Nationalists made the original claim.
Then other ASEAN nations made their own claims when they got independence.
182 nations recognize the PRC as China. Anyone who talks about China today thinks of Commie land.
Therefore the claims went to them.
>>29547696
The Chinks have made it abundantly clear the UNCLOS principle doesn't apply in "historical territorial waters" which is what they said when they signed the treaty in 1978.
They've only enforced their claims through diplomacy in the 12nm areas. Not the 200 nm EEC zone. Who knows in the future though.
>>29545288
They spar with Japan over the Senkaku/Daioyu Islands every couple of years. The difference is that Japan exercises effective control over those islands, so they can't really do anything to change the status quo.
>>29547642
>International law has no legal force you stupid fuck.
cuz, China is stronger than America and others in South China Sea. It's time to say Good bye Post War regime what P5 member says, this is an important event.
PRC wants to go back the Imperialism era by keeping their Military power and the seat of P5, but this is a difficult for them and rest of the world, you know?
>>29547779
International law has never applied. What do you think happens in Israel every day?
International law's only force is public opinion of a few retards who believe the world is going to be one government one day.
This is /k/. Take this convo back to military.
Why is ASEAN outside China so fucking poor and unarmed? China spent $140 billion more than all of the other SCS claimants combined.
>>29547779
The last bunch of Asians that controlled the entire South China Sea got nuked twice.
>>29547599
>RoC has the exact same 9 dash line. Actually, the PRC takes their claims from the RoC.
Yes, china as a whole (both chinas as it is) is defacto the worst.
The others claims don't fucking compare in size and scope.
How is this an argument?
>>29547796
>International law has never applied.
because, "Historically" that is Chinese lands (>>29544920)"
,right?
>>29544920
>Historically that is operating region of Japanese and Korean pirates.
fixed for historical accuracy
Chinks don't like to admit that they had almost zero involvement in the area all along
>>29547796
>International law has never applied
I see china has no regard for signed treaties.
At least america had the integrity to not sign agreements they dont agree with.
>>29547796
>International law has never applied.
China admits what Chinese balkanization by European, American Powers is nothing wrong since the Opium War . Japan did nothing wrong at WW2. Europe,America and Japan gave something good for China because historicaly! China is faggot
>>29544466
You have to be dense as fuck if you think the PRC is running 50 cent operations on 4chan of all places
>>29544920
Historically, Nanking was Happy Funtime Deathfuck Camp for Japan. Should they get in on that action again?
>>29547962
Why not? Its a cheap and easy place to test rhetoric and arguement. You can do it for as long as you want and take the winners to the various english sites you wish to influence.
Tldr: its pretty good practice. No signup, no issues with mangement. Its a perfect testing ground.
>>29547924
China was victim, everyghing bad came from Japan-kun desu
>>29547796
>Why is ASEAN outside China so fucking poor and unarmed? China spent $140 billion more than all of the other SCS claimants combined.
China looks ASEAN down and threatens ASEAN again.
China forgets how they were poor and shitty
>>29547888
>Korean Pirates
Not him but no such thing. Koreans of the Joseon Period were autistic isolationist landlubbers. They weren't called the "Hermit Kingdom" for nothing.
Most East Asian pirates were either unemployed Ronin from Japan or angry Chinese ex sea-merchants. Or during the fall of the Ming dynasty in 1640: ex-admirals taking the Ming fleet with them.
>Chinks don't like to admit that they had almost zero involvement in the area all along
Absolutely wrong.
If there's one thing in common with all the Southeast Asian its the presence of Chinese merchants who established trading posts in those islands. Some of whom descended from trading families who settled in the place even before the formation of insular Southeast Asian nations.
They established trading posts there in order to
1) Have a foot in the trade of the area ahead of other merchants
2) Safe harbor their ships for almost half a year during the Monsoon Season, in which Southeast Asia gets visited by strong typhoons.
These families were also the impromptu diplomats for the tribes in the area to talk to the Chinese Empire. As was the case when a merchant accompanied the Sultan of Sulu during his visit to the Ming Court.
The presence of Chinese trading posts in the area was quite ubiquitous that here in the Philippines, the Spanish authorities called Chinese who lived in the Philippines "Sangley," due to a miscommunication when the Spanish asked them in Chinese "What are you?" (as in race) and these men, thinking the Spaniards were asking what they were doing in the Philippines, replied in Hokkien "Seng-li" (Business)
However, I do not think these are legit bases for landgrabbing. Since
1) These trading posts were private ventures outside of the Imperial government
2) These merchants never claimed the land for China. In fact they usually had to pay the local chief some sort of "rent money" in exchange for their.
Using pirates as legitimacy isn't entirely possible either.
>>29548007
Because the propaganda is directly for influencing domestic opinion? They post on local news outlets and discussion boards.
China literally does not give two shits about foreign opinion.
>>29547924
Given China's long and storied history of getting shat on by treaties, I'm not particularly surprised.
>>29547999
No Chinese believes history, nothing problem at all.Truth is not important for China.
China is strongest nation in SouthChinaSea what is an important
>>29548171
>China literally does not give two shits about foreign opinion.
Dear god, please tell me you're not this foolish
>>29548198
but "History issue" and "We was victim" is the key for strengthen the China's power
>>29544920
>Historically that is Chinese lands.
>>29548171
>They post on local news outlets and discussion boards.
Verifiably false.
I mean wiki tier false.
>>29548231
>>29548413
Huh, after looking it up some more it appears you guys are right.
My bad.
That's actually kind of funny though.
>>29547796
China declares The world where the weak are victims of the strong
>International law has never applied
>Malaysia's Waters is Chinese territory
Around 100 China Ships Encroaching Malaysia's Waters
http://thediplomat.com/2016/03/100-china-ships-encroaching-malaysias-waters-minister/
While the report did not offer an estimate of the exact number of vessels, The Diplomat understands from an informed, anonymous source that the number is close to 140.
Malaysia, one of four Southeast Asian claimants in the South China Sea disputes along with Brunei, Vietnam and the Philippines, has been contending with a series of bolder and more frequent incursions by Chinese vessels over the past few years. For instance, in one high-profile case, a Chinese coast guard ship was reported as being defiantly anchored at the Luconia Shoals just 84 nautical miles from the coast of Sarawak, well inside Malaysia’s EEZ (See: “Malaysia Responds to China’s South China Sea Intrusion”).
Though Malaysia has traditionally employed what I’ve termed a ‘playing it safe’ approach in the South China Sea, growing Chinese assertiveness has led the country to recalibrate its strategy (See: “Malaysia’s South China Sea Policy: Playing it Safe”). Just earlier this month, Malaysia’s defense minister Hishammuddin Hussein said in an interview that there may be a “pushback” from the country in response to Beijing’s behavior (See: “A Malaysia Pushback Against China in the South China Sea?”).
>>29548515
God damn chinese pigs
>>29548462
Its all good.
This was found out a few years ago, and they were purged. Memes abound.
>>29548556
What?
>>29544405
jesus christ
>>29545149
>I'm British
Sooooo the immigrants finally cucked you?
>>29545143
>China
is name of continent, not the name of country like america
>>29549027
wat
are you retarded?
US Defense Secretary Carter cancels visit to China
http://www.turkishweekly.net/2016/04/09/news/us-defense-secretary-carter-cancels-visit-to-china/
China building up South China Sea Scarborough Shoal 140 miles from Philippine capital of Manila http://nextbigfuture.com/2016/04/china-building-up-south-china-sea.html
Evidence is mounting that China aims to build another island atop the Scarborough Shoal, an atoll just 140 miles off the coast of the Philippines’ capital of Manila and well within the Philippines' 200-mile economic exclusion zone, that would extend China's claims. Chinese missile batteries and air-search radars there would put U.S. forces in the Philippines at risk in a crisis.
>>29549225
Ash Carter to visit site near disputed South China Sea
http://www.wdsu.com/politics/in-show-of-us-resolve-ash-carter-to-visit-site-near-south-china-sea/38946232
US strategic ties with India centres on China, not Pakistan, which it sees as a distraction
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/US-strategic-ties-with-India-centres-on-China-not-Pakistan-which-it-sees-as-a-distraction/articleshow/51758932.cms
France opposes any escalation in South China Sea
http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/France-opposes-any-escalation-in-South-China-Sea-foreign-minister
>>29544346
Take a look at what the others are claiming. Basially, everyone's claims are overblown and stupid and everyone knows it. It's just part of the whole dumb pissing contest.
>>29544372
Beause they'd spend more of it fuking ove eah other than actually opposing China.
>>29549027
>mfw
>>29549225
>an atoll just 140 miles off the coast of the Philippines’ capital of Manila and well within the Philippines' 200-mile economic exclusion zone, that would extend China's claims.
China will deploy this
>>29548597
This giant conversation chain reminds me of a funny wikipedia page I found that read as engrish propergernda
>>29547962
They don't pay that much but it's definitely real. /pol/ and /g/ of all places are rife with them.
>>29545404
Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines all have mainlands. Their claims are based for the most part on dividing the SCS according to this. China relies on the artificial islands because it's claim fails without islands
>>29544405
They're already turning in their graves
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations
>>29549435
>Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines
Historically these are Chinese lands.
No Disputes over ASEAN and China.
>>29547612
The US declined to sign the UNCLOS treaty because of seabed mining clauses put in there at the last moment. These were then removed before it came into force abs the US had simply never got around to ratifying it.
What matters is that the US state department has dais INCLOS is a codification of international customary law and that it is bound by it.
>>29547796
Faggots who think international law had no effect have obviously never stepped out of their basements. You can find examples of where it fails bit the vast majority of the time States adhere to international law and if they do break it they use more international law during the dispute that follows.
>>29547962
PRC shill detected
>>29549476
Look China fag, you can claim these were once part of a Chinese empire but they are sovereign States today and that means they get 12NM of territorial sea with the option of 200NM of EEZ on top of that. This means china's claim under UNCLOS fails pain and simpl
>>29549576
China also claims what the Russia Far East, Japan, Northern India is their territory at least
A series of China's Dream has just getting started.
Yes...Mongol empire is also history of China.
>>29549625
interesting
![newmap3[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0jwKOwE.jpg "newmap3[1].jpg")
For reference this is the full scope of the clusterfuck of claims going down there.
Not show- Taiwan, which is claiming the same as the PRC and then some up north as well.
>>29549625
China's attempt to use historical empires as the basis for its claims is weak in international law. There may be some relevance to historical control, as the case in Western Sahara showed, but given UNCLOS is one of the most coherent areas of international law this is unlikely at best.
What the West and ASEAN will do is this:
>Hold regular multilateral meetings and declare that international law must be followed
>Ignore China's claims of sovereignty and it's ADIZ
>Continue with freedom of navigation exercises so that everyone ignoring China's claims becomes the norm
>Support the build up of Vietnamese and Filipino naval power to show China it's not worth it
>Support Japan with the Senkaku Islands so China realises it's outnumbered
>In private meetings with China tell it that it has no claim and must submit to international law.
>Pass regular resolutions condemning China's militarisation of the Islands.
>>29544346
>>29550335
>>Ignore China's claims
G7 Should Not Hype up South China Sea Issue: Chinese Foreign Minister
http://english.cri.cn/12394/2016/04/10/4201s923649.htm
>>29550335
Thus the bullying tactics of America, suppress the truth because it does not favor America.
>>29544372
Even if we gave the slants a brand new Nimitz class, those incompetent jungle monkeys would sink it in 2 months.
China funded rebels all throughout East Africa during the Cold War.
>>29550372
Please stop, PLAIDF
>>29550365
All this shows is China really doesn't want the West enforcing international law.
Kinda shows we're on the right path
>>29549906
That one area claimed by all five countries.
>Rice Niggers pulling Gulf of Sidra II: extra-territorial annexation boogaloo
We all so how well that panned out for Libya...
Vietbros, Pacific Treaty Organization when?
>>29544346
Merican hypocrisy at it's finest.
>>29550612
>PAV honor guard in black pajamas and paddy hats
Laughs all around
>>29550632
Dude...
Not to sound like a shill, but it ain't like it was a fucking secret that the USA had bases all over the fucking world and they tend to surround perceived threat. It's the fucking same across the former URSS and Mongolia, with bases making a dot line all along Russia borders.
In your cases I suppose it's cents that were given to your account
>>29550813
>USSR doesn't exist anymore
>Bases are still there
>Wonder why Putin is continually pissed with America.
>>29550843
>Wonder why Putin is continually pissed with America.
Because they lost in literally every measurable way possible?
>>29550856
>Mexico brutalizes Americans in Texas
>America steps in by invading Mexico and annexing Texas
>America is a hero
>Ukranians brutalizing Russians in Crimea
>Russia steps in by invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea
>Russia is a monster
>>29544346
>literally touching Malaysia, the Philippines, and Vietnam's dicks
Talk about forward settling. I've razed cities a continent over for settling a bit too close to my shores.
>>29551050
It's the same principle you burger chomping nigger
Get out of Europe
>>29551008
>>29551094
It's not the same principle, faggot.
International law once allowed territorial acquisition by conquest, now it doesn't.
What you're suggesting here is that if one group is subject to discrimination then another State can invade and annex to support them. This is /b/ tier logic, where the principle of responsibility to protect is twisted into a right to annex situation.
This is why you won't succeed in life, China.
>>29550372
>>29551094
They are in Europe at the invitation of those countries. Not the same as China invading everywhere, cunt.
>>29551094
>beet-nigger rage
We were invite
>>29551158
>>29551146
>>29551128
>>29551114
Fuck you all, NATO is one big military industrial complex. Scare dumb Baltic states about "muh Russian boogeyman" they buy more F-16s, Jews get richer. One day murica is gonna get nuked and I will laugh, Russia, China, North Korea and soon Iran all have their nukes pointed at you.
>>29551396
Stay mad, cuck.
>>29551396
>>29551094
Dear CIA
I was only joking, I love murica, I have apple computer, please don't drone me.
>>29551584
>It's interesting how dedication to NATO and keeping a proper military is directly proportional to how close a European country was to the USSR.
This
>>29551584
Bulgaria loved the USSR
Belarus still loves Russia
>>29551711
Exactly they weren't brainwashed by coca cola.
>>29545088
Honestly, unless we get a massive tech leap militarily some time very soon, a sino-american war would be best to get out of the way now while we still have a small portion of people with balls left in existence over here to use to fight with. After the clintons helped china rebuild it's navy and airforce, we were doomed to an eventual sino-american war anyways. Hopefully the Chinese will wipe out so much of the west coast that America finally grows some balls and just starts VXing and kinetic rodding all of china's military assets from orbit. It would be a great day when the US breaks the bonds of the UN that it created....
>>29552415
2 GBU-57A/Bs into the five gorges dam would seriously alter their attitudes
>4 if we wanted to be super thorough
>>29552438
That and power armored american soldiers making their way through Chinese streets and back alleys.
>>29552537
I really like this idea.
>>29552537
I really, really, do.
>>29552537
Really...
>>29552600
>>29552611
>dub dubs confirms
>>29552537
China did it as a strawman tactic during ww2 and China claimed what this incident was caaused by Japan and We was victim.
Well, this proxy incident was failed and the world mocked China's art of war
1938 Yellow River flood
>They claimed that 12 million people had been affected by the flood, and in 1948 it estimated the number of deaths at 800,000. A 1994 PRC official history of the war put the dead in the flood at 900,000 and the refugees at nearly 10 million. Scholars exploring the archives now give much lower figures: 400,000–500,000 dead, 3 million refugees, and 5 million people affected (another estimate puts the number of dead at 500,000, and the number of homeless at 500,000).
>>29544405
>surprisingly well lit
Fucking lost it
>checked
>witnessed
>kek'd audibly
>>29545088
someone doesn't understand geopolitics and world economics. China will collapse in 10 years tops and the United States won't even flinch
>>29549520
That's because the vast majority of international law is based upon the customary law that formed before the UN was formed. They follow international law because that's what they followed before "international law" was even a concept.
The question is if International Law affects major power policies.
One look at the world today and it shows that international law does not influence the foreign policy of the major powers.
>>29547924
America enforced what it called "international law based upon the UNCLOS treaty" when the Lassen crossed the 12nm zone in October last year.
America is trying to enforce a treaty it hasn't signed on ASEAN nations (not just China). It picks and chooses when it follows international law.
>>29549493
So why hasn't it "gotten around" to signing it after 30 years?
>>29552696
>China did it as a strawman tactic during ww2 and China claimed what this incident was caaused by Japan and We was victim.
Source?
Also this was the KMT's plan.
>>29552537
Great way to start nuclear warfare.
>>29552759
>In an article entitled "The Coming Collapse of China: 2012 Edition", published by the Foreign Policy magazine website, Gordon C. Chang admitted that his prediction was wrong, arguing that he was off only by one year: "Instead of 2011, the mighty communist party of China will fall in 2012. Bet on it."[5]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coming_Collapse_of_China
>>29552981
>start nuclear war
>implying we don't have a plan for that
You rang?
>>29553023
You're gonna shoot down 500 MIRV ICBM's from Western China???
Oppenheimer has explained how America's BMD system will at best take down 10-20 ICBM's in a nuclear war scenario.
We Malaysians are arming ourselves. Our navy is belatedly getting six new frigates with proper anti ship abilities. We are stalling. Playing the diplomacy game with China. The medium term plan is to have 21 frigates. Up to now, we have honored China by not ganging up on it with ASEAN nations. This is changing now. The fact that we are building six stealth frigates during an economic depression speaks loudly of how much we see China as a threat, even as our diplomats downplay it. Also, /k/ is rife with ChiCom shills. Well, this is my message to you, shills. Your country is losing whatever goodwill it has among ASEAN nations. We will circle your corpse when your economy inevitably tank.
They called their period of being colonized the "Century of Humiliation" and they're not going to let go of it. Pointless interasian racism wont let them.
They and Russia both have beef with Japan, and that wont go over well for the Japanese because they refuse to acknowledge any of their wrongdoings. Hell, China can mnipulate the Norks into harassing Japan for them and keep their hands clean.
>>29553045
>doesn't know what the RIM-161 is
You could have just said you don't know what you're talking about
>>29552981
>Great way to start nuclear warfare
says China.
China becomes disadvantaged by own stupid behaviours then China threatens world by their strategy weapons with their best friend Best Korea
>>29553260
>>29553045
North Korea Claims Successful Test of ICBM Engine
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/north-korea-claims-successful-test-icbm-engine-n553336
N Korea says successfully tested ICBM engine: KCNA
http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/n-korea-says-successfully-tested-icbm-engine-kcna-116040900059_1.html
N. Korea tests new ICBM engine, boasts of capability to destroy
https://www.rt.com/news/339018-korea-icbm-missile-test/
>>29553346
>North Korea
>claims
>>29545288
The idiot Philippines asked the USA to take their military and money and leave. If there was still that US presence, the PRC wouldn't even be trying this shit.
>>29547456
Please tell me the Viets have updated their hardware to some degree, that kit looks basically the same as what the NVA was using decades ago.
>>29553587
>The idiot Philippines asked the USA to take their military and money and leave. If there was still that US presence, the PRC wouldn't even be trying this shit.
>The idiot Philippines
Hindsight.
It was 80's, and consider the following from the Philippine standpoint.
1) The US supported the dictator Marcos in close to a decade he was power. Even gave him safe haven in their own country. So you could say the US was unpopular at this point.
2) The Communist World was declining. Everywhere. The Flips thought China would follow suit.
Turns out the Chink Commie Party was stronger than ever before thanks to Deng and his reforms, and Tienanmen Square did not prove to be China's USSR-Collapse moment.
Like I said, ITT: Children and people who have no Idea of Southeast Asian History.
>>29551396
You're talking like a literal vatnik-tier memester.
>You're gonna get nuked
And what makes you think we're not going to nuke everyone back? Like it or not we're not going anywhere.
>>29550867
>Because they lost in literally every measurable way possible?
Why are you talking about Obama?
>>29551128
>This is why you won't succeed in life, China.
Over the course of its 3k year life it has been the dominant economic power and closest to a superpower albeit benevolent one. It has succeeded over several US lifespans already and already regaining the lead after a brief hiatus.
>>29549314
>>29547599
That's the point of making outlandish claims. It's supposed to serve as a buffer so the claimants don't get everything they want but still have something substantial after talking it through with the other claimants. In theory that is supposed psychologically satisfy everyone.
If you make a reasonable claim you may either end up walking away with an even smaller slice, or piss off the other claimants by looking like you completely kicked every other claimant's ass.
The problem is barely any of the claimants have looked to any form of litigation or talks to discuss on how to share/divide the maritime territories, and instead either do little about it, or expand their reach without care about other countries. China just happens to be the loudest of the bunch, taking the most effort to assert their authority with large scale land reclamation.
>>29544346
USA needs to form an alliance with
Taiwan
Philippines
Vietnam
Malaysia
India
Strengthen Japan
Serious Strengthen our Navy 100x
China senses weakness and will strike
>>29553023
>RIM-161 Standard Missile 3
>from the makers that brought us the Patriot
>the shitty system that can't effectively intercept even 40 year old Scuds
>>29554280
>Taiwan
Ally
>Philippines
Ally
>Vietnam
Lol
>Malaysia
Wants to be neutral. Dislikes the Philippines for being a US ally and messing up the status quo. Also USA supports Israel.
>India
Not their fight. They don't care about SCS
ITT: Children and people who don't know about Southeast Asian history.
>>29553023
Got to love some nuclearfags' detachment from reality.
>>29554280
Too many regional and ethnic complications between those nations to make that a reality. The economic bloc they've got is working so far, I think a strengthening of that could give them some slight economic clout.
>>29554325
India fought a war with China and the 60s and there is still bad blood there
Vietnam is getting dicked around by the Chinks
I don't see why either wouldnt want to rally behind a strong USA team that promises them good trade benefits…like not being China's bitch
Sure the islands don't impact India but that doesn't mean they don't hate them
especially after the chinks basically helped pakistan get nukes
>>29544346
EVERYONE READ THIS BOOK
>>29554158
That is the Vietnamese Army. Some of their units anyway.
Though some units wear the Chinese copy of the PASGT helmet.
Look, this is Southeast Asia. Home of poor militaries outside the likes of Singapore. Cunts there have been using stuff since the 70's.
>>29554347
India has ever been the third party in anything going on in Asia. They have their own shit to fry.
>Vietnam is getting dicked around by the Chinks
True
>I don't see why either wouldnt want to rally behind a strong USA team that promises them good trade benefits…like not being China's bitch
See >>29547456
The whole basis for Vietnam's government is not to be a bitch to *anyone.* Including the USA. Sure they want the USA to keep China off but this doesn't mean they want to allies with the fucking country directly.
There was a big fucking strike in sweatshops for US companies in Vietnam last week due to complaints of conditions, and it was the first of its kind. You didn't hear of it in US Media but it was heard here in Southeast Asia.
And again, Taiwan, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Vietnam are in competition with those Islands against each other. Southeast Asia isn't some fucking European Union with countries that share the same culture. It's a place filled with highly independent countries and unique cultures that- while not killing each other off- do not see eye to eye with each other.
>>29554421
So should we just let China have Asia to avoid WWIII?
Honestly Taiwan isn't worth a dead American
I feel bad for Japan desu
That being said fuck China they are assholes. People complain about the USA but wait until Chinese are dominating your country and Chinese tourists are shitting on the floor of your airplane
>>29554325
>>India Not their fight. They don't care about SCS
This is an absolutely China's desire
>>29554365
>Wear the chinese copy
The one made of steel or kevlar? Because the Chinese were using steel-copies of the PASGT for a while.
>Home of poor militaries
I'm aware, I'm an American half-Flip with family back in Flipland and saw how badly outdated a lot of their military hardware is. I just would have assumed that as part of Soviet aid in the Cold War the Viets would've received some slightly newer equipment. Furthermore its been a few decades at this point since Vietnam's period of being up shit creek (being in a near-constant state of war for several decades, then having an absolutely wrecked economy for about a decade more plus a brain drain as people left). Today's generation of Vietnamese aren't the same ones that were squatting in rice paddies and shooting at US troops. They've got a taste of westernized culture, there's shopping malls and the like, and they're either too young to remember the absolute shittiness of the 80's or are too old to make a difference. I don't doubt the Vietnamese capacity to stand firm if a foreign power comes knocking, but China isn't the US and the Chinks have been learning slowly over the years as to how to into modern militaries. The Chinks invaded in '79 on the heels of shit like the great leap forward and the Cultural Revolution with a gutted officer corps, shit-tier training, a terrible grasp of combined arms operations, and an overconfident leadership. That cost them badly. However over the decades of border disputes with Vietnam they slowly began to improve themselves as the Chicoms started to worm politics out of the military bit by bit. I despise the fiddy centers on /k/ but I do recognize that the PLA has come damn far in the last 10 years alone, and they're at least giving the impression that they're trying to learn from their mistakes. I doubt it'd go as far as a land war with Vietnam again, but I don't see a brief naval confrontation or border clash as being out of the question. Will Vietnam be ready for them?
>>29554421
Germany stands with China like WW2
UK stands both of China and US side.
>>29554440
>So should we just let China have Asia to avoid WWIII?
This is WWII tier propaganda. No they just fucking want those Islands and the other irredentist territories they claim. They don't want to invade all those fucking third world countries.
Is it possible to make a virus that could hurt only ethic Chinese people?
>>29554779
Chinese people consists of 56 ethnic groups
>>29554848
I meant the main group. Not talking about the Tibetans or the North Korean border hoppers.
But anyway, I guess I meant to ask if an ethnic targeting pathogen is possible to create at all.
>>29554347
>India fought a war with China and the 60s and there is still bad blood there
They started that shit with their Forward Policy crap.
>>29554440
>Chinese tourists are shitting on the floor of your airplane
everyone's nouveau riche is like that. Give em a generation to learn class.
>>29554890
Theoretically yes.
But who knows if such a thing exists, WMDs are about as secret as you get.
>>29552537
What do you think would happen? Mr. Civil Engineer?
>>29554779
No you fucking moron.
>>29554979
Well gee bill, 30,000 pounds of penetration with a 5 ton warhead...
>>29554979
Namefags are idiots, more news at 10
>>29544553
Because at the present a country's military would likely get involved to protect the defending nation. We're not quite to Deus Ex levels of corporate warfare yet.
>>29555163
At the rate we're going, corporations will never have more power than the government.
>>29554966
I'm doing a general biology bachelor's degree now. I'll pick genetics and virology for my second year and see if I can make some "ethnic cleanser" virus.
>>29554979
I always love how these particular militaryfags assume everyone in a country is collectively responsible for a government's action and so would justify wholesale, indiscriminate punishment. All that will do is rile up the hive and send more people flocking to support the government.
>>29550617
go home ahmed
Relax. The US has been protecting freedom of the high seas since it's very formation, both militarily and diplomatically. We'll work this out.
>>29555335
Doesn't help that nothing would happen in the first place.
>>29555473
I know already that you don't understand anything about civil engineering.
>>29555463
What is there to expect? It's ended up being more of a geopolitics thread than a warfare one. Because of the sketchy amount of information involving the dispute between claimants or their naval equipment, the discussion devolved from "China vs SEA" into the same "China vs America" trite. It's like the majority completely forgot SEA exists.
>>29555473
He was talking about the probability of America going ahead bunker busting the Three Gorges Dam. For that to happen there needs to be a major escalation that involves large scale destruction of civilian infrastructure on land.
>you also realized the namefag called it the "five gorges dam"
That's just hilarious. I can't take him seriously.
>>29555529
>lel 5 tons of high explosives detonateing after penetrating is nothing!
Do me a favor and close your fist around a firework.
>>29555529
But somehow the dam would collapses!
>>29555544
>He was talking about the probability of America going ahead bunker busting the Three Gorges Dam.
Nope, check above
>>29555554
>pump 5 tons of explosive energy into the dam, multiple times, with very little loss of energy
>LEL WONT DO A THING!
>>29555556
I didn't specifically mention the dam busting in >>29555335.
>>29555554
A dam can't really collapses.
And even if a dam isn't capable of controlling the amount of flooding anymore, There are several safety measures like other dams along the river.
>>29555568
Im not talking about your claims, friend.
You know im not because you said "he".
Dont be a faggot.
>>29555575
>A dam can't really collapses.
Wut.
Have the chinese lost their own history.
>>29555582
Learn something about the engineering of modern dams.
>Discussion derailed further into bunker busters on the three gorges dam.
How normal do these derails happen?
>>29555575
Assumeing a significant amount of water is released from the worlds largest Reservoir due to uncontrolled release, dams down the line would, in a best case scenario, be topped, which is extremely hard on the dams themselves and will still lead to major flooding.
>>29555567
>5 tons of explosive energy
>a lot
>in a region with eathquakes
>>29555585
Do i have to give you examples of dams failing?
>>29555576
It seems we're reading >>29555463 differently because it's too vague. I'll leaving it at that and fuck off. This thread turned into shitshow anyway.
>>29555585
>Chinese engineering
