Are shotguns viable for combat?
inb4 "all you need is a shotgun because slugs can go 250 yards" guy.
>>29491599
they have a much longer effective range and tighter spread (especially with chokes) than they are portrayed to have in video games and movies
however they are very ineffective even against soft body armor.
>>29491599
Shotguns are devestating.
>>29491639
A long barreled shotgun, with rifled barrel can shoot pretty far m8 just git gud. A slug is literally a .54-.56cal projectile destroying your body at approx 1600fps
All you need is a shotgun because slugs can go 250 yards.
>>29491670
> ineffective against even soft body armor
Are you using birdshot or something? Slugs and Anti personnel buckshot have great penetration. (E.g. federals vital shok copper plated 00buck is pretty great desu)
>>29491672
your spelling is devastating to your point
Yes and no. #00 buck will kill anything within 50m, but your capacity is shit. Tacticooling is useless, but a flashlight would be handy on a HD gun
>>29491712
Newfag
Shotguns: What can't they do?
What is a good cheap shotgun that can swap barrels easily? I want a multipurpose kind of gun.
>>29491740
PPSH
>>29491743
One heck of a shotgun
>>29491740
Sime benellis novs come with Extra barrels. Also any mossberg/Rem can swapbarrels pretty easily. Unless you want to get chinkshit get a pradner pump, or a Henry or whatever the fuck makes knockoff shotguns
>>29491719
What's with the obsession with faggots and flashlights on everything?
Do people's eyes not adjust to the dark?
>>29491701
>>29491599
Close quarters combat? Absolutely. Shotgun shells are more lethal than rifle or pistol rounds. So if you just want to make things dead they're great as long as those things aren't able to engage you from over 50 meters.
At the end of it, context is everything. For the average joe a shotgun is more than sufficient for home/workplace defense, likewise shotguns make excellent crowd control weapons (such as against rioters). But if your opponent has access to rifles then you'll need rifles as well.
>>29491770
Why is the FPS of the shotgun loads so fucking low? All slugs I've bought have has 1600fps, or more.
>>29491740
Mossberg 500, though the mag tube lug is a massive bitch to remove. I got one on sale with a 16 and 18 inch barrels. I put a box mag kit on it too, because box mags are cool.
>>29491599
Against those who have 30 round clips and know how to tactically reload them quickly, fug no.
Other than that, they're pretty fuckin choice with some good loads and a good choke
>>29491770
Standard slugs are one thing, tactical slugs are another, as are flechette rounds.
>>29491766
Eyes adjusting can take vital few seconds, also with a decent light it will blind your opponent.
>>29491766
The ultimate home defense gun is a shotgun with 3 lights and a bayonet. Anything else is wrong.
>>29491599
what kind of combat?
i would be fine clearing a building with a shotgun but i would be shitting my pants if i had to go up against rifles between compounds or mountains or some shit.
>>29491820
>not using your rounds to blind intruders
>>29491801
Hurr durr, I load my shotgun with felching rounds.
>>29491816
>Eyes adjusting can take vital few seconds, also with a decent light it will blind your opponent.
My eyes will already be adjusted because if it's a situation where I would use a flashlight it would be where I was awoken from someone breaking in. The fact that I can see in the dark gives me an advantage over a burglar vs. broadcasting my exact fucking position with a flashlight.
If it's not dark, then I'm just weighing the front down with more useless "tactical" shit on the front.
>>29491740
TOMMY GUN
>>29491766
because if someone breaks into my house at 330 in the morning, I'd like to see what I'm shooting at in case I can't get to a light switch. Flashlights on guns is probably the only tacticool shit that makes sense
safety first etc
>>29491866
>>29491866
Good for you, though I don't know how good shotgun shells are at making arrows.
>>29491770
#40 does not look like a copper round.
>>29491879
ppsh one hellaova shotgun
>>29491599
Depends on the type of combat.
>>29491672
Not that far. I've been hunting white tail with shotguns since I was a kid (local hunting laws ban rifles from hunting because use of rifles due to population density). 200 yards with a rifled barrel and sabot slugs is getting meh groups, simply because you're lobbing a projectile like a fucking rock. And at that point you're not able to use shot. As for rifled lead slugs, they're great for dear inside of 200 yards as well, but even worse at the job.
>>29491599
He's the problem, OP. There's no reason to use one. Its only advantage over a rifle is it shoots multiple projectiles at once, and that's quickly negated with close or "long" ranges, and I can just walk five or six rounds onto a target with a rifle if I have to. They have lots of uses, they're fun as fuck, but serve a very niche purpose now.
>>29491921
I agree with this 100%
>>29491599
Worthless over 10ft range.
>>29491712
you're*
>>29492035
Your mom is useless over 10ft range.
>>29491871
Lol okay, Riddick.
>>29491599
Define "combat". They have extremely limited use on an actual battlefield, but are very viable fighting weapons outside of that. Enormous destructive power per shot with the right loads.
Literally all you need because slugs can go 250 yards.
No, they're not
>ineffective against modern body armor
>range is less than that of a rifle
>heavier than a rifle
>due to size and weight far less shells can be carried by a soldier
>slower reloading than a rifle
>less magazine capacity than a rifle
>cannot deliver effective/efficient suppressing fire
>slower rate of fire
>longer than a rifle so therefore more awkward to maneuver
>higher recoil means slower and/or less accurate followup shots
The only use they have in modern combat is for shooting out the locks/hinges on a door
I mean don't get me wrong they're perfectly fine for hunting, home defense, sport, or fun. They're just not suited for war.
>>29492633
You realize that heavier and longer depend entirely on the specific guns in question right. Probably not because you're dedicated to being a twat.
>>29491795
>clip
NNNNNNNNNNNN-
>>29492767
>t. autistically blasted scattergun fag
>>29491816
Just do what I do and walk around with one eye closed all the time.
My right eye is my daylight eye and my left eye is my dark vision eye.
This generation doesn't even try to adapt anymore.
>>29491871
And obviously defending yourself from a burglar is the only time anyone has ever, ever needed a firearm.
>>29491599
Shotguns are in no way a substitute for a rifle. Effective range is about 20-50 yards (if you're lucky, not using buckshot, using rifled slugs instead). Generally they are clumsy to reload, too long to handle indoors and have a slow rate of fire.
Personally I feel like a shotgun is best used as a Master Key, and that it will never replace a short barreled rifle for urban environments, and a long rifle (18 inch barrel, semi-auto) for almost everything else (up to 250 yards). Further engagements require a .30 cal of some sort (7.62x39mm or .308 Win in an AK variant or AR10 rifle).
What are my qualifications for saying so? Absolutely none. I'm a UCG - untrained civilian goofball who shoots a lot and spend almost every waking hour doing gun smithing and research on guns.
>>29491795
>30 round clips
>clips
Sorry, sir, but you are completely clueless.
>>29492964
Found the call of duty kid.
Stopped reading at
>effective at 20 to 50 yards if you're lucky
>>29492999
Nice trips
>>29492999
Glad you approve, although I don't play video games.
Glad you stopped reading. Wouldn't have you learning anything - it's better that you remain ignorant.
>>29492964
It shows you have no experience with guns. You can hit something with a slug easily at 100 yards and a little harder at 200. Buckshot is still deadly at 100 yards but due to spread, reliable up to 50 yards easily.
>>29492964
>up to 250 yards
>further engagements require a .30 cal
>7.62x39mm
Opinion disregarded
![Shotgun-back-1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/bi0TO1P.jpg "Shotgun-back-1[1].jpg")
>>29493027
I'd love to see a video of you hitting anything at 200 yards using a shotgun (with slugs).
As for buckshot - the damage is minimal and easily survivable.
>>29491701
And they will still get stopped by soft body armor.
>>29491820
>implying there is anything wrong with having a bayonet on your home defense shotgun
>>29493016
Okay I read the rest and now I know for a fact you know Jack shit about guns.
>you'll need maybe a 308 win in an ak variant
>only used as a master key
despite shotguns being used in trench warfare and urban and jungle enviroments lol
>clumsy to reload
That would depend on one's training with it now wouldn't it? Some shotguns are magazine fed like my Saiga
>long and can't be wielded indoors
Yeah because all shotguns are 20 inch barreled hunting style shotguns right?
Fuck off to call of duty, friendo
>>29491599
Eh, yeah. But, it wouldn't be my first choice.
>>29493047
You won't find a video of me since I don't have a YouTube account but You can find many I assure you. Do a simple YouTube search im confident you'll find a couple
>>29493038
I guess US troops in Iraq re-introduced the M14 into service because their Mk. 12 could handle everything beyond 250 yards, right?
>>29493047
Thats birdshot You flaming homo sexual but I realized now no one can be that stupid and I took the bait
>>29493047
That looks like birdshot.
>>29493130
Are you serious?
>>29493142
Are you a feminist or a man? If you're a feminist, then I can understand your raging, illogical outbursts.
However, if you're a man, you're held to a higher standard. You want a debate? That's fine. I'm not without fault, and I have no problem discussing the topic at hand. Do so in a civilized manner, and present your argument properly.
Is that really too much to ask?
>>29493108
>trench warfare
>relevant
They are used in urban environments to open locks. Jungle fighting? When was that last a thing?
And your box fed shotgun is shit.
>>29493171
I wish you sincere luck on prying a civilized debate out of this board.
>>29493047
This has to be a troll.
>>29493228
One can but try :-)
On topic though:
Like everybody else I can only speak from my personal experience (which I thought was made clear from my first post, where I clearly stated that I was a UCG - untrained civilian goofball). Am I the know-it-all authority of everything shotgun? No. Obviously not.
I simply offered my two cents as a contribution to the thread - not as a way to conclude the debate.
Sadly this was lost on the lesser minds in here.
>>29491599
yes
this thread again
old old is old
So I have a shotgun that has picatinny rails on the forend.
What could I possibly put on this goddamn thing that is actually useful? Besides lights.
>>29491739
They can't bake cookies or suck my dick.
>>29493314
Lasers n' shit nigga
>>29493130
>revolver ocelot as the dude
that shit's my shit
/k/ has called me both more times than I can remember
>>29493264
I like the Keltec KCG, its compact bullpup design is very maneuverable and gets rid of the handling problem most shotguns have.
>we needed fucking shotguns at Wanat you cocksucker
>[rage intensifies]
My vet sperg rage aside, shotguns do have a tactical role to play. They are very good at that role but they are not a "do-everything" item like an assault rifle. For me, a shotgun is good because in a fairly built up area outside Chicago. My max target engagement range is 50 yards at best. Lots of narrow back alleys and shitty 1900's hallways make for a bad day if you run into a shotgun. Like I said, its all about the tactical role it is going to be used in.
Clearing out Chiraqi homes? Perfect.
Overrun by mucks entering your COP? Couldn't be a better tool
Shooting at some asshole across a farm field or mountain range? lolno
>>29493328
Someone tell that guy on youtube
>make a jacket that fits around shotgun barrel
>fill with cookie dough
>shoot
>?????????
>eat half baked cookies
>>29491599
no, they are just for the purposes of making that scary noise that scares badguys away
>>29493314
ACOG, it really needs an ACOG.
>>29492964
and we have a winner for thread autist
>>29493446
>scope
>on the forend
okay
>>29491599
Define combat.
>>29491599
Combat combat, war, not really.
civillian defense, and shit, yes, very good.
>>29491701
IIIa soft armor will stop a 12ga slug and buckshot.
>>29493630
Stop, yes. But it sure as shit won't protect you.
>>29493630
Dude is right, argument was penetration.
>>29493642
Dude is also right, a 12ga slug right to your center of mass will absolutely incapacitate you with soft armor, could very well kill you.
>>29491793
Second. Fucking love my Mossy.
>>29493642
Yes it will. Part of the rating concerns maximum blackface deformation. Anything the vest will stop will not cause serious injury.
>>29492964
aaaaaaaahahahahahahah
>>29493701
>>29492964
https://youtu.be/nNTyCcip-ks?t=1m15s
>>29493681
Right.
>>29493722
Excellent! I stand corrected! Thank you for that.
>>29491599
First question
>does your target have deltoid, groin, collar, and upper arm LIII body armor tacked onto his plate carrier? Y/N?
If YES
>Penetrator Slugs to center mass until the main plate fails
>Birdshot Mozambique Drill to seek the gaps, disable and capture or execute
If NO
>Fire Anything that isn't a non-penetrating slug
Is he outside your effective range?
If YES
>disengage and bait or close under cover
If NO
>engage with caution and prejudice
Does he have buddies?
If YES
>why are you fighting against superior numbers, disengage
If NO
>why don't you have superior numbers, disengage
Do you have superior numbers?
If YES
>support and suppress for your team
If NO
>fucking disengage
>>29493047
looks like airsoft injuries, thb
>>29492040
Eeennt wrong. Want to keep playing? Go for broke in double jeopardy where the scores can really change?
What shotguns would you guys recommend?
They're the least regulated fun in my country and I want one for clays and home defense
>>29492964
I think you're catching some flak not because of the overall point - shotguns have specific uses but they fall far short of rifles as a general purpose infantry weapon - but rather because of some incorrect specifics in your post.
- Buckshot effective range is more along the lines of 50-100 yards, depending on choke. Quite effective, in fact, in pure terms of what an individual round can do. It's meant to quickly take down deer at that range, after all.
- 7.62x39 is an exceptionally poor choice for ranges over 250 yards. It's known for suffering from severe dropoff starting around 200-250 yards, making it fine for an assault rifle but not great for longer-distance engagement. It's actually worse at those ranges than intermediate cartridges such as .223/5.56.
>>29493047
Birdshot, not buck, you nonce.
>>29493727
slugfag trying to pretend buckshot isn't weak ass bullshit?
>>29493681
don't they make IIIA in hard and soft models?
>inb4 soft IIIA, if you can call it that, is still extremely stiff, just not against a ballistic impact
>>29491739
stop the north hollywood shooters wearing soft armor?
>>29491766
rural area, no street lights nor permanently bright sky after dark (halo)
>>29493976
Buckshot will be stopped by a vest with significantly less injury.
Slugs will still destroy the thorax.
>>29493995
>is still extremely stiff
You've never actually handled kevlar before, have you.
>>29493995
III is typically IIIA backer plus hard plate
>>29494022
not really, no, all I know about body armor comes from you guys and browsing online catalogs while window shopping
>>29494031
ah, okay, I could've probably looked that up before looking the fool
>>29491599
Yeah but not when they look like that, they are a lot more useful like this. People have a boner for putting gay shit on 12 gauge shotguns like OP's pic and I don't get it. It isn't about the fudd wood, go with synthetic if you want it, it's about the weight and how useable the gun actually is. That shotgun would be uncomfortable and awkward as fuck and for what gain?
>>29494126
Even this is good if you want to feel tactical
>>29494007
Which brings us to the point.
>buckshot is weak ass bullshit compared to a rifle
>if you are using slugs in a shotgun you might as well have a rifle
>>29494166
>buckshot
>weak ass bullshit
It does significantly less damage than a slug but it is still going to fuck you, not to mention they could, you know, shoot you somewhere else? Like in the head or your dick?
You get a 4 gauge, you get a 4 gauge, and you get a 4 gauge. 4 gauges for everyone!
ask the germans
>>29492023
>local hunting laws ban rifles from hunting because use of rifles due to population density
Lower MI/Upper IN?
>>29492035
>I used a shotgun in a video game once
>>29494041
>not really, no
Soft armor is stiff, but not rigid. Think of it like well starched jeans.
>>29494166
Sure, I wasn't arguing that point. I only jumped in the thread because I saw someone go "lol IIIA will leave you unscathed vs slugs"
Shotguns for home defense or "combat" are a good idea only when you have a severely limited budget.
>robots will never take over cause they cant even open a door
>shotguns can open doors
>skattergat uprising imminent
>>29494004
I call Halo city glow.
Is it a regional thing? I live in Florida.
>>29491712
>>29491739
>DU buckshot
>>29493681
if blackface deformation wasnt a meme before, it is now
>>29492964
Found the person who has never shot one of thhe guns he's talking about.
>>29491599
Would you like yours in Mossberg 500, Remington 870 or Remington 870 Breacher? Vid related: Hickock45 using multiple variants of the fun and explaining how this this is legal/has a super low-cost tax stamp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_pXTItRtkc
>>29491599
Ask a guy who just bought an 887 Nitromag Tactical anything
I am designing my own loads now. Right now I am thinking 3" flechettes
>>29494463
Low cost tax stamp.
Absurdly overinflated base price.
>>29493047
stop baiting and go back to your COD game.
This is now a shotgun thread
post your shotguns
Shotgun.
>bought a lyman 525 slug mold
>cast and loaded about ~600 of them
>ordered 835 rifled barrel/scope combo last night
Am excite
>>29494631
Is that a fucking MAG-7....?
I never thought I'd see one outside of Forgotton Weapons
>>29491599
If it's for clearing a building or close quarters, then yes.
>>29494895
Yessiree
My most prized possession. $500 new in box
>>29491599
Inside of 100 yards, sure.
Pic related is my most recent scattergun
>>29494930
>>29494631
You have better luck than Ian with it using the Aguila?
You ever cut shells to the proper length and re-crimp them?
>>29493314
>What could I possibly put on this goddamn thing that is actually useful?
A real stock. Take it from someone who's been shot gunning for nearly 10 years (and went through a pistol grip phase) when I say you aren't hitting anything with that setup. You need an actual stock for anything besides point blank range.
>>29495287
Yes the aguila works well in mine
Im not sure how to do that but I have original ammo too
>>29495361
>take out wad and shot
>replace wad with a flat piece of cork about 1mm
>cut the shell down to 2.25 inches
>put shot back in
>plug the top with a cardboard disc
You can do it with nothing but scissors and a knife
>>29491712
I'm not even that guy but
>>29494126
I just put "shotgun" into google images
>>29493920
It's birdshot, not airsoft
>>29493172
Man, what of there we're other countries and theatres besides just the US and its preoccupations in sand land
>>29494796
Muh 835 bro. Ulti-mag4lyfe
But seriously, when is mossberg just going to do a legitimate...I hate to say tactical line, but you know. I want a standard bore 20" barrel with the 3.5" chamber, not just a cut down overbore or 590 barrel.
>>29491639
no, they're still pretty slow. but if you try to say shotguns are bad past ~ 70 yds, you're just wrong.
>>29496801
shit meant before
>>29491599
Yeah of course, haven't you ever played Halo?
>>29491599
>Are shotguns viable for combat?
Tell you what. NO gun is viable for "combat" if the person using it doesn't know what the fuck they're doing.
Yes, a shotgun is viable for combat.
>>29496892
>TFW just finished the Anniversary release
>Now wishing I had some sort of "No Flood Zone" patch for my shotgun case
>>29493047
that looks like my ass did, when i got shot with rocksalt by friends neighbor because the guy was a giant fucking retard.
>>29496920
Right?
You wouldn't use a long rifle to kill swarms of things. Shotgun is very adaptable to the situation. A must have of any squad.
>>29495298
Take it from a guy who's gunned for 16 years and also for a living, a pistol-gripped shotgun is fine for a lot of shit.
>>29497456
>What's you line of work?
Gunnin'
>The fuck is that?
What you never gunned before?
I go gunned full time for the last 16 years damn it!
>Whoa don't get angry I was just asking what...
Don't you talk down to me, MR. Not been no gunnedining before!
I've gunned day in and day out to provide to my whole gun damned family working 50 hours a week I did gunned for them 16 years...
>Okay, so what do you think you can do here...
Well, what I can do is leave, but first put all the money in the sack, I need to get out of this bank before the cops get here.
>>29491672
pretty sure a long barreled shotgun with rifle barrel is a rifle
>>29491820
>His HD gun doesn't double as a pike
Plebian swerve.
>longer than a rifle
>heavier than a rifle
>>29491599
>viable for combat
Overall you would need at least 1 person with a shotgun because of versatility.
However since you never explained the question fully by neglecting to state what the combatwould be against, I am going to choose conception.
Shotguns would in theory work against fetuses, but staircases, wire hangers, and abortion clincs are far more effective.
However you could prevent theproblem in the first place by having your SO use birth control or a condom during sexual activity.
>>29494162
>>29492633
Not sure if b8 or retarded the post.
>>29497887
>not knowing Canadian law
>>29491949
That'd be fletching rounds, not felching rounds. Pretty sure felching is one of those Urban Dictionary sex things that nobody does.
>>29492964
Are you retarded?
>remember that damage fall-off guys, after 50m the shot just patters off of light clothing :v
ITT CoD retards that cant hit the side of an air craft carrier with a shot gun because they are bad
>>29494126
>talks about putting gay shit on a shotgun
>uses a side saddle
>>29491871
I'd like to know if it is my drunk little brother breaking into my house before pulling the trigger.
>>29491599
Yes
Within 50-60 yards buckshot will take someone down in one shot, absolutely
Slugs, I'd say anything over 150yards and I'd try to close the distance, but a slug to the chest would ruin anyone's day, especially up close
>>29493264
The euphoria is strong with this one.
>>29491599
>slugs
>100+ yards
Yeah, no. You're not going to hit targets of a reasonable size with consistency past 100 yards. Paper, sure.
Combat viable? Fuck. No. The shotgun is outdated, if you're expecting to shoot at people, bring a fucking rifle. They're better.
>>29497887
>Caring about the NFA
>>29498553
Wow something that ads a negligible amount of weight and gives you four to eight extra rounds that can be quickly accessed? God forbid. Show me a time-stamped photo of a shotgun you've used extensively both with and without a side saddle, a picture of it when the side saddle was on, and at least five issues it caused.
>>29493999
Nothing can stop me, dude!
>>29491599
Not as a primary infantry arm, no. They have breaching and security applications so they're not going to be going away anytime soon. You could expect one or two to be issued to a squad depending on the environment and task at hand. Innawoods/desert? Fuck no. Kicking doors? Definitely.
>>29491599
If you had to fight a xenomorph on earth, and the two guns availble was a run of the mill AR-15 loaded with .223 or a pump shotgun with buck?
>>29494631
$w@9 7
>>29491599
I always wondered if you could take a KS-23, elongate the case so it's not useless and attempt to fire 4.7 or 5.7 Armor Penetrating Bullets like shot out of it.
>>29491599
yes....
>>29493614
2 things trying to destroy each other
>>29493947
*jepperdy
>>29498643
Agreed. Didn't think that kind of critter existed here.
>>29499114
Bullets dependant on a rifled barrel. As a bunch. From a shotgun.
Try flechettes.
>>29491599
No, rifles are abundant making the shotgun useless except for blowing off door hinges and locks.
A person with a rifle will always come out top over someone with a shotgun even in close quarters. A shotgun is something people who know no better and are talked into buying a shitty tool because tv tries to show it as a viable weapon.
Sure its better than nothing but fuck get yourself a rifle instead,of buying a boomstick just because its cheap.
>>29491599
Not just viable but king of dense fiba along with wp and grenades.
>>29499485
Let me guess. Another AR head who drove forklifts in the national guard and gets drunk and pretends he 'saw the shit.
Shotguns are extremely useful in close FIBA as are otherwise useless items like subguns and pistols.
Rifles not so much, much rather have a shotgun in close FIBA.
>>29499525
Subguns are completely obsolete with the advent of reliable subcarbines.
Shotguns have been obsolete even longer, defensively. High recoil, low capacity, complicated reload, heavy, large.
>>29499525
I support shotguns, but subguns are truly obsolete due to carbine rifles and bullpup rifles. Unless it's a sub compact auto pistol then pistol caliber SMG's are dead for military use and at that point it's just a pistol with full auto.
>>29499559
>>29500298
Oh boy, it's the "ar 15 can do literally everything" crew
>>29499525
Is it the low ammo capacity or the protracted reloading procedures that makes shotguns extremely useful?
Perhaps its the bulky and heavy ammunition
>>29500371
Well name a situation where issuing say a mp5 over an m4 is a clear upgrade from a military standpoint. There really isnt one except for super fringe cases like inside of cramped vehicles where you cant store a lot of stuff which is basically tank crews. Even then you can probably squeeze in room for a bullpup if you really wanted to design one.
>>29500371
Well let's say I have a 9mm SMG like an MP5, or an UZI,I'm severely limited by range and penetration power if an enemy is hiding behind a low brick wall and wearing armor.
With a carbine that shoots rifle rounds like 5.56x45 or .308 Win, while I'm not holding a sniper rifle, I can get a few aimed shots to hit their mark at distant targets and up close in urban combat I can just shoot through cover and not have to worry about it if the target is wearing armor.
>>29501188
>>29500371
Now with a shotgun, while it's even going lower velocity and even has a shorter range, a military buck shot load at optimum range of 50 meters while not a wide a spread as movies and games exaggerate but a spread of lead shot will act like a wall and strike an armored target and will knock him around and luck perchance a pellet or two makes it to an unarmored part of the body like arms neck or maybe in a vital place like the eyes. With a slug your smacking them hard with a huge chunk of lead that even though armor will stop, will definitely hit them like boxers punch and knock them around.
Will it kill them outright is the concern and no, an armored target with iron will who dose not have massive tissue damage may very well still be in the fight so even if say you have semi auto Vepr shotgun and just mag dump 10 rounds of buckshot literately peppering the target to the ground, you need to advance and load another buck shot to shoot him again in the gaps of the armor to finish him off.
>breaching
>8 rounds of "sit the fuck down"
Shotguns are just outdated from a time where we didn't have rifled weapons
>>29493328
Both of those a re supposed to be done by woman.
>>29498786
That sure explains how people manage to keep rounds in the kill zone of animals at or past 100 yards. Its like you don't even look before you start typing bullshit.
>>29491701
>Slugs and Anti personnel buckshot have great penetration.
Slugs are at huge disadvantage against bullets and buckshot still can't penetrate soft body armor.
>>29493630
>IIIa soft armor will stop a 12ga slug
Backface deformation would be far greater than any safe limits.
>>29501246
>underage: the post
>>29499559
>High recoil, low capacity, complicated reload, heavy, large
Hey look another list of things entirely dependant on the shotgun in question, modeled as if everyone uses 30" barrelled 1887s
>>29500457
>Well name a situation where issuing say a mp5 over an m4 is a clear upgrade from a military standpoint
1. Minimizing sound signature.
2. Minimizing penetration (combat on planes, ships, oil rigs etc).
>>29491770
>1200fps on a 1oz rifled slug
Low-recoil loads don't count.
>>29497524
Lol. Naw, just military and security contracting, but your post is better.
>>29493328
Dragonbreath ammo; lube.
next?
>>29501188
>>29500457
More controllable on automatic. More compact. Better with supressors. Better penetration than 5.56 out of 8 or so inch barrels or shorter
>>29501761
IDK much about ammunition, but I'm going to parrot some things I've heard on here and ask you for your opinion:
Since MP5 is assumed to be in 9mm and M4 in 5.56, wouldn't M4 be preferred for mid-flight plane combat since 5.56 is frangible?
(This statement was taken from a reason why an SBR AR would be the best HD firearm, no idea if it's true)
>>29491793
what's your opinion on the maverick 88?
>>29493974
7.62x39 does drop but is ballisticly stable and deadly out to 350-400 yards.
You just move that tangent sight.
>>29491599
No.
>>29504056
A lot of these argumamts hinge on single ammunition types, which would be great if we were talking about the 60 or something, but frangible ammo is available for both. So it depends on the situation and WHO is having this on board firefight and how prepared they are for it.
>>29491871
You don't broadcast when you wait until you just about round the corner to flick on your monetary
>>29504219
When 7.62 foes trans sonic, it loses a lot of its accuracy
>>29495298
I was asking about the forend, though.
I have two different stocks I can use.
>>29491599
Yes, i know plenty of people who used in Fallujah. All you need is the right ammunition.
