I never really understood that. I get AK 47 is a classic, but there are several significant things Vz 58 beats the AK at. I mean, it was designed to outperform the AK after all.
-short stroke piston- less fouling, easier to reacquire target because of less stuff moving between shots.
-striker fire mechanism-everything is moving in the same direction, driving the recoil straight into the center of your shoulder, another thing making it more manageable despite its compact size
-bolt catch- pretty important feature if you ask me, but more for combat than plinking I admit.
-compact, about half a kg lighter and slightly shorter.
-some people even claim it's more reliable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QemYI_aWWvM
So why do people buy AKs over it? Is it AKfags going "MUH ULTIMATE REEFLE"? I admit it is a simple and reliable rifle, but we all know it has flaws.
More companies make shit for AKs and it also has acquired a legendary status for reliability.
>>29465790
Go watch Ian and Karl's video about the Vz 58 on InRangeTV.
>>29465811
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3kComQz40o
This.
>>29465811
brutal
>>29465811
>>29465829
so because of a failed test that means no one who wants one should buy one?
>>29465811
I never really saw a mud test for it, but I suppose its design doesnt handle mud getting on the bolt cover well. But I don't really understand the point of mud tests. I mean unless you roll around with it in a puddle before going to the range, why would you really care? It's not like the Vz 58 is unreliable in common conditions if it served the Czech army for over 50 years.
>>29465811
I actually like the controversial bolt design. Because the ejection port is so fucking huge, I didnt ever have a single case jam in there.
>>29466008
>>29466010
Even if a gun is objectively better, my main concern when I buy milsurp is "Can I fix it if it fucks up?". My AK can be rebuilt from the ground up with the amount of parts floating around the market, but I am not only limited in parts for the VZ 58, but also the accessories and essential components like magazines and stocks. That's why I didn't get one, but I still would love to have the pleasure of shooting one.
>>29465811
The AKM actually did worse, senpai.
>>29465811
I don't expect to ever find myself in Verdun, so mud tests don't provide much useful information for me.
How accurate is the Vz 58 with good quality ammo, will it accept standard AK optic side mounts, and how easy is it to take down and clean?
>>29465829
>>29465811
I don't drop my VZ in gallons of Mud
>>29465790
I have a couple. a CSA vz 58 and a CZ 858.
I also have one in 5.56, but it doesn't like to work so well.
>>29465811
>>29466293
Just watched the AK-47, it didn't do any better.
It definitely won't accept AK optic side mounts
We took it down regularly in the active reserves, it's really easy IMHO, but you can look at the youtube videos. It's fairly simple, even if not as simple as the AK. It's widely regarded as more accurate than more AKs- probably because of the striker fire system, which has been proven to be more accurate than the hammer fired Sa 56 prototype and other hammer fired systems including the AK. In addition, the short stroke system makes follow up shots easier than the AK type long piston. I reccomend this review if you are planning on buying one http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/04/joe-grine/gun-review-czech-vzor-58/
>>29466327
Ah... I was planning on getting one in 5.56, that sucks. I guess the cartridges are just too different.
>>29465790
Because it's damn expensive for the real deal. I've used a vz2008, and it's fine as a regular shooter gun, but it's very much lacking in the smoothness and overall parts fit that the real one has. It's like someone took a vz58, sanded all the parts in the action with super rough sand paper, then threw it off of a moving vehicle so the parts don't quite move like they used to, and the takedown pins alignment is questionable when it comes to disassembly. The real one's parts come apart damn easy, and the stripper clip guide is questionable on the 2008. Also, the mags just don't fit 100% right in the 2008 I used. That's what makes me worry about it's ability to smoothly use strippers.
I think it's the objectively best 762 rifle by a mile, and I'd pick a 2008 over a similarly priced $500-600 ak, but I can easily see someone not wanting to drop over a grand on a gun they've pretty much never seen in person and aren't very familiar with.
>>29466070
>The AKM actually did worse, senpai.
>>29466378
>Just watched the AK-47, it didn't do any better.
Why lie so obviously?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73uXs3xGU
The AK could be cycled manually, VZ couldn't be fired at all.
>>29465790
Because the stock looks like it is made out of compressed shit, complete with corn.
>>29466594
It makes the gun lighter, I still dont understand why you people hate it so much. I mean you can get the collapsable stock variant and change the foregrips for something tacticool... or paint it black. I'm fairly certain the stock doesnt make the gun.
>>29466583
If I had to cycle the gun manually, I'd rather switch to a sidearm, or bring a bolt action rifle to start with.
>>29466563
Really? Damn. The original ones here in Czech Rep. cost about 350 bucks converted to semi, and that's only because they have dried up from the demand. Still, I'm glad people in america don't get to buy them all out because of the import laws :P
>>29466651
>Still, I'm glad people in america don't get to buy them all out because of the import laws :P
Heh, we would too. I'd have two of them at least if they weren't a grand each.
I'd have my scoped one with fixed stock, and my folder vehicle beater. At least it only takes a minute to change stocks, and the scope comes right off the rail in seconds.
They've seen good service in ulster.
>>29465811
aren't those the same faggots that say the m14 is the worst gun ever after they clogged it with mud?
>>29467354
They put the M14 into a realistic combat situation, and it matched anecdotal accounts of soldiers in a few wars.
Fuck you.
I'm going to guess because there wasn't that many available. Yeah, someone makes brand new VZ's from the ground up, but it's one company and they can't or won't get the price down to compete with similar AK's. If someone stateside would start cranking out recievers and found a way to make them take AK mags (literally, just change the magwell and bolt so it all fits) it'd be a much better recieved weapon.
>tfw I never got in on the $400 deals when they were going around
>>29467426
Being submerged in mud by a pair of obviously not homosexual men is a realistic combat situation now?
>>29467434
The receiver itself is not that complicated. I'm surprised more people don't make them from part kits.
>>29467464
I guess that's another problem: How many more parts kits are floating around? Last I checked, they've been drying up pretty quick.
While we're complaining, remember when Vz26 kits were $26.99?
>>29467354
if you inferred that they said it was the worst gun ever, then you're a fanny flustered fan boy.
they said that it was a completely unrealistic test that demonstrated the absolute worst conditions and improper handling. no soldier would ever let his weapon get that fucked. the m14 and m1 were good weapons for their time and are still serviceable today. but we've come a long way with the m16/ar15. that rifle actually held up in their worst case scenario.
>>29465790
It was never produced in the same numbers or used in as many wars as the AK so it never achieved the same notoriety, so fewer people would even know what it is let alone buy one. It looks somewhat similar to the AK and is marginally more accurate, but it doesn't have the same reputation for reliability and none of the parts are compatible, so it doesn't offer much that an AK doesn't. In the mind of the consumer; if I want a "rugged and reliable" rifle, I may as well go with an AK, if I want a more accurate rifle I may as well just go with an AR that is both more accurate and has a massive aftermarket. Also, the handguards heat up quickly, adding to the "why bother" factor of choosing this over an AK.
I think the easiest way to boost it's popularity would be to make a version that will take AK magazines. That way AK owners could use all the mags they have already instead of buying a bunch of new ones.
>>29467469
Were they? Holy fuck. If I knew that I would be shotgun marrying the ugliest whale just for citizenship. I always wanted to convert one of those to closed bolt. It's the wet dream that keeps me awake at night. Unfortunately here in EU modifying any gun part at all nets you loss of license and a hefty jail term.
>>29467529
Handguards heat up quickly? I never had that issue with the original ones, and I fired ones on full auto in the army reserves.
>>29465790
Is that a FAMAS?
>>29467529
Other points I agree with, there were "only" a million made, versus roughly 75 million AK 47s- and that's not even counting around another hundred milion rifles based on it. Sucks though. I really wish the czech army had their new rifle based on the VZ 58- the Bren is not much better than an old AK, let around a VZ58
>>29467545
I fired the CSA version. In Canuckistan it's the closest we can get to an AK until the Type 81 imports get here. After shooting a couple hundred rounds it gets pretty warm. It's not enough to burn you, but it is enough to make you wonder if it will. Not a big issue, but like I said, AK's don't have that problem, so why bother?
>>29467585
Oh... I don't think I ever fired a couple hundred rounds at a time. Ammo is expensive :D
>>29467552
Take a wild guess m8, I didn't find a better picture of the internal mechanism. This seems like a recolored picture someone took of a training poster.
>>29467627
>being this new
>>29467746
It's hard to tell wheter people are this bad at making jokes or retarded on this board
>>29465790
I may be a massive Czechaboo, but even i admit the AK is a much better supported weapon aftermarket. if you want a Vz to have a vanilla Vz then sure. but if you want to put fun and interesting attachments on your gun the AK is probably a safer bet.
i like this thread
>>29467835
>not recognizing one of the earliest and most iconic /k/ memes
lurk moar newfag, bet you haven't heard of this line before
>>29467849
That is most definitely true.
>>29467867
oh sweet jesus yes
>>29467897
Okay this is what I dug out.
http://i.imgur.com/P9ZOhtu.png
But honestly I don't specialise in "memealogy"
>>29467972
>linking to an imgur pic
>on an imageboard
>>>/reddit/
>>29467952
glad you like her :3
here with the old foregrip
>>29465811
That doesn't really matter to the average gun owner though, does it?
>>29468247
Of course it does, because we ALL throw our expensive toys in a heap of gritty mud before shooting at least once.
I don't buy semi auto guns that don't have a bolt hold open latch of some type
(Excluding magazines) so the 2008 was the best option imo
I liked my first one so much, I bought 2 more
>>29468219
>futa
>>29465790
Because muh special snowflake parts, and if SHTF I'll have to dump it the moment I've lost my last magazine or if it breaks and there are no replacement parts to be scrounged.
Because I'm not poor enough to have to resort to a $399 bargain bin special that doesn't even have a chrome lined bore or stupid enough to pay out my ass for a "legit" version that still doesn't outperform a basic AK in any real measure. All with an aftermarket that is limited and full on Kikemode for what there is.
>>29468369
Real life isn't Fallout bro. The only replacement parts you will find are the ones you bring with you.
>>29465790
It doesn't look as cool.
>>29468391
I'm not poor, I also own a couple match ar15'$ that are worth $2000-3000
But value for money, the vz2008 couldn't be beat for $400
Are they the best gun in the universe
No, obviously
But that was a better deal than a beat to shit $500 sks
>>29468391
>nogunz
>>29468412
>Fallout
I've never even played that game.
>>29468429
>But value for money, the vz2008 couldn't be beat for $400
It was a legitimate STEAL at that price.
>>29468437
>that sure showed him
>>29465790
Can some one explain how to tell the difference between a vz58 and a 2008 please.
>inB4 newfag. You were new once yourself faggot
>>29468467
Price
Non chrome lined barrel, possible worse fit/finish than vz58 also maybe inferior receiver quality, but I haven't dealt with the real deal vz58 $1200 czechpoint
Imo the vz2008 is an exceptional century arms international gun compared to some of the shit they put out in the past though
Actual vz2008 owner
>>29466293
>I don't expect to ever find myself in Verdun
kek'd hard
>>29466651
>The original ones here in Czech Rep. cost about 350 bucks converted to semi
If by "the original ones" you mean beat the fuck up garbage from VVZ Vyškov and other units that is sanded and repainted to make it look new, then yes. Hell, even the stocks are sanded these days to hide the fact these are guns after decades of heavy use and near the end of their lifespan. If you read the warranty, you'll learn that among other things it doesn't extend to barrel or muzzle wear ALREADY PRESENT when you're buying the gun, for fuck's sake. It's completely common to find a 10 MOA out of the box CZ858 these days.
In 2010 I'd heartily agree with you, but right now CZUB is cashing in on the gun ban and immigration scares and selling out guns that literally no one would buy two years ago, and for 100% inflated prices. If you want to buy a 58, get a used one.
The sad part is that the guns we gave away to Kurds for free were 100% mint, unissued units from NZ storage (Nedotknutelné Zásoby, untouchable reserves for a large scale war scenario), while even during the good years after 2004 we had to settle for more or less used refurbs (the only semi 58 variants that ware actually ever assembled from new parts new were certain limited - and expensive - runs of Gazela rifles, and CSA rifles).
>>29466293
>not factoring in the potential performance in northern french trench warfare when choosing your gun
Idiot.
>>29468519
>actual vz58 owner
The vz2008 is a pretty fine rifle, exceptionally good at it's price point.
But everything I said in >>29466563 is true. They're nowhere near as nice.
So if you really do love what the vz58 is, you owe it to yourself to get the real deal at some point.
>>29468519
&"wrong" color finish on the receiver etc
The original ones were more grey & less black than the 2008's
>>29468566
I honestly have way better rifles, and wouldn't spend that much -unless a deal came along...
>czech military is phasing them out
could that mean we get lots of civilian conversions
>>29468585
Fucking awesome truck/trunk gun imo
I would even care if it got stolen...
>>29468585
>I honestly have way better rifles
And for my uses out on the farm, I have nothing that beats the range of things I can do with my vz58 when it comes to having a super comfy 762 rifle or having an amazing vehicle gun when I swap for the folder. I usually leave the folder off though, it's nowhere near as good feeling as the fixed vz stock. I think the fixed vz stock is hands down the most comfortable military rifle stock I've ever handled by a long shot.
Go out and swap one of your folders for one, ebay it or whatever.
>>29466293
>I don't expect to ever find myself in Verdun
>>29468538
Either did tbe vuys who suffered and died there.
Now whag athiests?
>>29468541
It makes sense they keep the good pieces for active reserves and such. Still, they shoot Fine and were really cheap for a Long time.
>>29468596
I have been thinking of picking up a couple
>>29467867
>>29468219
How do you find the LOP with that stock? I've always liked the look of folders, but I'm so used to shooting with fully extended AR-style stocks I'm not sure it would be comfortable.
>>29468615
>It makes sense they keep the good pieces for active reserves and such.
No, they don't. They're phasing out all of them.
AFAIK, all of the regular units already have BRENs, so AZ will be probably getting the initial, extra shitty runs of BREN with the non-STANAG magwells soon, some of them already have.
When/if the 806 gets a go ahead, there will be more BREN 1 rifles than the AZ can ever put to use.
>>29468647
pretty comfy, im a tall guy
>>29466008
that wood is so purdy
>>29468685
Are you fucking with me? Are you telling me that instead of looking forward to shooting the pure perfection that is vz 58 this year, all I will get is that shitty gun whose magazine falls out and doesn't even have a fucking BOLT CATCH?! WHO THE FUCK MAKES THESE DECISIONS?! FUCK THIS IM GONNA GO JOIN BUNDESWEHR
>>29465790
I would buy a Vz. 58 if it costed like 700 and took AK mags.
>>29468941
Uh, it has a bolt catch, it just doesn't have a release, so you use the charging handle. In that regard it works completely identically to the Vz. 58.
But yeah, it's a piece of shit overall. Enjoy your 58 while you still can, CZUB wants their taxpayer money and they want it soon.
>>29468980
I wonder if I could arrange it to buy my gun out on a collector's permit. Do they still even issue those?
>>29467455
>Being submerged in mud by a pair of obviously not homosexual men is a realistic combat situation now?
Vietnam
Also it failed the sand test:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrPjlcJ3rtY
Guess which active warzone contains blowing sand?
>>29469007
Depends on where you live, most places they don't unless you already have an extensive collection.
I wouldn't advise on it anyway, it means instantly converting your storage to the highest level no matter how many guns you already own and allowing the cops to do an inspection at your place without a warrant.
You couldn't buy it out anyway, no one in the military would even listen to you. You'd have to get one from a store like BVS that still has select fire 58s.
>>29465790
As a Canadian, I can assure you that people buy vz. 58s over AKs in this country.
>>29469062
I'm afraid of mr. Skála. The whole store is like his private gun safe :D Either way, yeah, I suppose they wouldn't be willing to go over the paperwork in the army. What a shame.
>>29469091
I love how it got banned in Canada literally because the gov doesn't seem to understand how guns actually work and seens an AK as the magical, self aiming death machine. Either way, people may actually buy something decent. Like a Vz 58.
>>29469126
>seens an AK as the magical, self aiming death machine
It's funny because AKs are typically seen as inaccurate pieces of shit in most movies and TV shows.
>>29469140
That's whan an AK actually is.
>>29469106
I'm pretty sure the military can't even legally sell small arms to private subjects.
You'd have to talk to Excalibur Army or whoever it is that buys off all the surplus nowadays, and convince them to hold the rifle for you while you try to get the A cat. exception (and most importantly, convince them to go through all the extra hassle for a profit in the low 1000s of Kč).
>>29465790
I bought one since i liked the unique action.
ill get an ak someday.
>>29468628
Just ordered 2
And 2 ar15 parts kits & collapsible stock & buffer tubez
Just in case
8 years ago parts kits became as rare a unicorn farts
Should I get one in 7.62x39 or 5.56 and install an adapter?
>>29470693
Someone said the 5,56 conversion wasn't as reliable in this thread. I never shot one in that caliber myself, army has tons of unused 7,62x39 here, and the rifle functioned flawlessly in that caliber.
I'd buy a VZ if I could easily make it use my AK mags, or stanag if it was in 5.56.
Mostly want it to use my AK mags though.
Is this a thing?
>>29472707
>>29472707
They do make a stanag adapter for the 5.56 ones, but I don't know anything about 5.56 VZs.
>>29472847
Really more interested in a x39 VZ that can make use of my stockpile of AK mags.
The 5.56 adapter a shit?
I have heard that VZs heat up FAST AS FUCK, and that they are not good for prolonged fights with lots of shooting, they heat up to much.
Also, PENCIL BARRELS.
Please confirm or deny with proofs.
>>29468519
>>29468541
Any thoughts on how a CZH2003 compares to the CZ858 & VZ58? There doesn't seem to be much about them out there
>>29473050
i can shoot 3 mags of 7.62x39 after each other, no problemos on 40 meter.
Don't know if that answers your question
>>29475093
The conversion of the Hermex guns was arguably the least gentle (what you probably know as "the gremlin" is called "Hermex efekt" around here for a reason), but other than that they're just the same more or less used refurbs and do exactly what an 858 does.
It's ugly as fuck
>>29465811
You realize they say those mud tests aren't in any way a reason not to use the rifles and that they personally own and use guns that failed those tests, right?
>>29466020
CZ USA has everything down to rear sight leaf springs for cheap as fuck. And you can buy stock adaptors for AK and AR stocks as well. Pretty much anything you want besides keymod hand guards you can find online.
Tfw bought a 2008 with five mags when they were $400
Tfw it hasn't malfunctioned on me once in the 7k rounds of random x39 I've put thru it
Tfw ak owners and people who can't afford CSAs buttmad at me all the time
Honestly, it's more fun to shoot than my $1700 AR.
>>29475674
>SIG 550 with NGST cords
>confirmed for swissanon
Tell me where this shooting range is!
>>29476104
no, its a secret place : ^ )
sorry gäll
>>29476253
Chom scho, i de Swiss Shooting Range hesch 4 woche warte zit
>>29476276
http://www.waffenhandel-schweiz.ch/
wils du bisch
>>29476276
>http://www.waffenhandel-schweiz.ch/
http://www.shooting-club.ch/
da hani gmeint, abers gliich eigentli
>>29476306
thanks
have a pic of my Vz
>>29476343
nice, where did you get it from?
did you see mine? its a new production from CSA.
Are you a grill?
>>29476371
Waffen Ingold
Maybe, if it's in the thread then yes
No
Have another picture.
>>29468590
nope, most have already been phased out for the Bren, the golden age where they literally were the cheapest guns on the domestic market are gone...
>>29468941
>Bundeswehr
enjoy the meltdown guns
>>29468219
Lefties really get screwed in the world of folding stocks. Feels bad man.
>>29467354
The M14 is an inferior rifle design in comparison to other rifles of its time, but no they didnt claim it was "the worst gun ever"
>>29467529
Accurate
>>29467545
Mine heats up to the point where I need gloves after 3 mags.
>>29470693
No, just get an AR if you want one in 5.56
>>29466008
noice
For a $400 rifle, its not bad at all. Anything past that and I wouldnt bother buying one.
>>29465790
IMO, it's the objectively best 762x39 rifle out there. And worth every penny to get the real deal if you can afford to drop a grand. I'd say the same to any prospective ak buyer deciding between an expensive arsenal folder and any other common ak on market. Buy once cry once is the ONLY way to go with weapons if you can at all help it.
The 2008 isn't bad and is a complete steal for 400, but it's sorely lacking in fit and finish vs the real deal, and I mean sorely. And remove that slant brake instantly. From my experience it screwed up my shots by literal feet up and to the right at 400 yards. Without that thing, it was clank clank clank.
Otherwise, it's an alright shooter and seemed dead accurate with golden tiger, just like my real vz.
>>29473026
>x39 VZ that can make use of my stockpile of AK mags
THIS!
Is there a non-shitty way to get a Vz. 58 to use AK mags? I have millions of them, and I fucking HAAATE not having magazine commonality.
If not, I'll just buy another AK, I guess...
>>29467585
After a couple hundred rounds? OK. I know for a fact it won't be a problem for me then.
>>29481065
For fuck's sakes lad...
>>29481111
>dat picture
>dat filename
>dem quads
truth
Went to a gun show today and picked one up, since I'm a MD resident I can't have AK's anyway.
After shooting it today, I think I like it better than AK's. Loving that bolt hold back, and being able to load it with clips.
Because they don't come on 5.45x39
That is truly the only reason I have no interest in one.
>>29482293
Was there ever (even an attempt at) a 5.45 SKS?
>>29482402
No.
The SKS was loooong phased out by the advent of the 5.45 cartridge.
>>29482501
Fairly sure you could convert it if you wanted it so much, but why would you? 7,62x39 is better for range shooting imo (bullet doesn't tumble), and comes in subsonic varieties that are much stronger than 5,45
>>29482675
>but why would you?
SKS is still a better rifle for arming primitive idiots. Like much of the viet cong were, or like jungle people across the world.
