https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/01/20/by-2030-south-china-sea-will-be-virtually-a-chinese-lake-u-s-study-warns/?tid=a_inl
>China will have so many aircraft carriers by 2030 that the South China Sea will be “virtually a Chinese lake,” a new U.S. study warns, arguing that the balance of power in the Asia-Pacific region was shifting away from the United States.
Meanwhile, President Obama’s strategic “rebalance” to Asia has neither been clearly enough explained nor sufficiently resourced to cope with rising threats from China and North Korea, the report by the Center for Strategic and International Studies found.
NEED MO' MONEY FO DEM PROGRAMS
>>29377417
>washingtoncompost
I thought they said Carriers were useless :^)
>>29377417
Kek no. China is running out of steam. It is inevitable due to their fucked up demographics. Serves them right for believing in Malthus. In any case, SEA nations are ramping up their modernization efforts. A total of at least 30 new frigates from SEA nations will join the fray in the next projected 5 years. Japan is doing a intetwar Whermacht move with its helo """" destroyers""". The only downer is Taiwan which is in doldrums.
>>29377417
Who cares? You're not even a player.
>>29377417
>Meanwhile, President Obama’s strategic “rebalance” to Asia has neither been clearly enough explained nor sufficiently resourced to cope with rising threats from China and North Korea, the report by the Center for Strategic and International Studies found.
If China builds 10 carriers then the USA can't increase their carrier fleet for 20 carriers without going full Soviet Union with wasting a large part of your GDP for the military, even if the muh better than everyone else together doctrine kind of forces it.
That are the limits of force projection.
>>29377591
The USA doesn't spend much on it's military lol
read some books
>>29377606
What a random post.
http://www.janes.com/article/59003/imagery-suggests-china-has-deployed-yj-62-anti-ship-missiles-to-woody-island
>Imagery suggests China has deployed YJ-62 anti-ship missiles to Woody Island
>Recent imagery suggests China has deployed YJ-62 ASCMs to Woody Island in the Paracels
>The deployment potentially allows China to target any vessel within 400 km of Woody Island
>>29377591
The bigger problem is that there aren't any shipbuilding reserve left because of the dead shipbuilding industry in the USA.
>>29377627
200km HQ-9A SAM range + 400km YJ-62 AShM range.
Can target US ships off Cam Ranh easily.
>>29377627
Janes sure sucks at Chinese stuff.
How is the YJ-62 big news if Woody Island has a fully built military airport since the 90s?
>>29377646
Woody Island never had a permanent or semi-permanent fighter unit assigned to it, and LR-AShM/Theatre SAM are something new as well.
Now they have those assets there as reaction to the US FON-Ops.
>>29377627
>>29377671
Meh.
The main advantage of road-mobile AShMs is to do that; stay mobile.
Can't bomb an area of china indiscriminately because its both too large to do so and may be filled with civillians. Woody Island isn't large enough to hide, nor a problem to completely glass.
>>29377696
Civilians will eventually arrive on Woody Island and other artificial islands, as China aims to make them into fully fledged islands with booming tourist industry.
China especially wants white people to come. White people are the best human shields.
The SAM and AShM only exist to deter Philippines or Vietnam to try to intefer or even capture those islands when they were defenseless.
>>29377417
reminder that india will become a superpower by 2030
>>29377744
This gives one a good impression of the size of China's largest artificial island.
>>29377744
Cool, so even the shill agrees that its useless without white people and human shields
a tactic used by ISIS
>>29377696
Now I wanna see how you want to destroy the YJ-62 launchers in a tactical strike.
>>29377571
>Japan is doing a intetwar Whermacht move with its helo """" destroyers""".
I find the idea amusing, but I don't really think those Helicopter Carriers are much more than that. Let me know when Japan starts buying F-35B/Cs.
>>29377764
>yfw after China pushes USA out of the picture it starts building up alliances with Asian countries, edging closer and closer to Poo in loos
>China/Asia coalition wipes the floor with India and turns it into a gigantic sweatshop
>Hillary led US is '''''deeply concerned''''' tier cucked while this is happening
>>29377627
The comments are such a clusterfuck.
One would expect from Janes to just delete that kind of nonsense.
>>29377777
Dem quints, bruh. Checked
>>29377799
And that while being protected by China's latest SAM systems and a regiment of fighters and naval bombers each.
Those islands will grow in strength, until they become fully fledged fortresses in response to more US pressure.
Recent news indicated that China successfully tested their HQ-19 ABM system as well and will deploy them on those islands as well.
In the end, those fortresses will be capable of resisting and soaking so much US firepower, that the US will spent a large part of their navy to take them out - which would be completly useless, since every Tomahawk that is launched against those islands will be one less for more important targets in China proper.
>>29377847
It's Malta all over again.
>>29377826
>Shillary
>>29377847
China proper won't ever be targeted by anything but nukes since strikes on Chinese land would be a significant escalation and China has no contigency plan in a nuclear war. There's no waste in focusing on the islands only.
>>29377876
He probably supports Trump and thinks Hillary is a spineless, non-interventionist simply because she's a Democrat.
>>29377635
>>29377627
Ahh, I see our resident 50 cent poster is finally back.
>>29377900
>Hillary
>The bitch that wants us back in Iraq
>Non-interventionist
>>29377820
they started developing their domestic version of VTOL single engine 5th generation aircraft
Literally the wet dream of any pilot with an aircraft than can carry CBU-87 or AGM-154B.
>>29377900
Hillary is a criminal. That's why. She's also pretty fucking retarded.
>>29378024
>AGM-154B
Why would a glide bomb that has to be launched nearly two thirds into the engagement envelope of Chinese AA be a threat? You may as well drop a fucking JDAM if you're that close
>>29378099
>What is JSOW-ER
>>29378099
>engagement envelope
>the same as maximum range
Chinese carriers won't mean anything when the Americans can just sink them with a missile :)
>>29377571
>It is inevitable due to their fucked up demographics
Are you a retard?
The west will no longer be "the west" demographically within 50 years
And will cease to exist
All china has to do is wait
Talking about any looming problems in china is madness when the issues in the west DWARF theirs
We've had zero population growth for 70 years now, have imported massive foreign populations, and the median age of whites is 45.
>>29377496
It's an independent study. Nevertheless, hyperbole is involved.
>>29377591
Why build carriers when you can just build longer range torpedo systems to sink theirs with subs?
>>29377826
>yfw China pisses off the US
>the US switchs to Africa for manufacturing (already happening)
>China shrinks back into 3ed world fuck hole without US consumer market
>>29377571
this. we are literally just moving a little bit away at a time while they spam carriers and destroy their own economy
soon they will just be floating abandoned wrecks since their crews will have starved, or their crews will surrender their ships to the US for some McDonalds
>>29378266
Because if it so easy one wouldn't build aircraft carriers in the first place.
>>29378279
>China
>spends only 2% of its GDP while the USA is somewhere at 4%.
Sure, that overspending!
Only a retard chink think a stationary target like these fucking islands won't be slaughtered in the event of a war
They aren't even camoflaging their shit
So
LOLCHINA thread?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0US7JEfhsrA
>>29377417
Considering all the airbases the Chinese are building on the Spratelys and Paracel Islands, it could be. Until China develops better maritime logistical support (which they are doing http://www.janes360.com/images/assets/822/58822/Sustained_support_the_PLAN_evolves_its_expeditionary_logistics_strategy.pdf ) they won't make it much farther than that. You have to remember that China really doesn't have a good coastline going for it since it's surrounded and rather walled-in by their potential adversaries (Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Philippines, and former French-Indochina), meaning that this island development is aimed at giving them unhindered territorial access to the open waters of the Pacific, which with China's huge and rather successful push to a blue-water Navy,is vital. And of course, the Chinese want to control the valuable shipping lanes in the area, but the US-Indian push to neutralize this effect by positioning forces such as frigates and MPA off of Port Blair in the Nicobar Islands will ensure that US and India, as well as Thailand and Singapore, continue to hold a sphere of influence on the Malacca Straits.
tldr, Its fucking Nothing but sensationalist fluff aimed at getting the US to invest in more Naval Assets/ scaring the people into reading more of their shit.
>>29378209
The west still can import immigrants to fill out the labor force to supplement it's aging population.
You have no fucking idea how top heavy China's demographics will be after a decade and a half.
There's going to be about 400 million people leaving the workforce within the next 20 years, but only 300 million people replacing them. That alone is catastrophic, because China has been able to free up a lot of the labor pool by using improved agricultural methods. But now they's already gotten most of the easy labor savings from that. China will need to import Vietnamese/Africans to supplement it's workforce, or have a severe labor shortage. If you think Euros and Americans hate Mexicans and Africans, you have no idea how xenophobic the Chinese are.
Even worse, China has no meaningful government retirement program. All those 400 million people retiring are relying on their children to take care of them. That's easy enough when you had 4-6 kids per family, one would take extra time to take care of the parents, the others would sent him/her money as compensation.
What happens when the ratio flips from 4-5 kids taking care of mom and dad, to 1 kid taking care of both parents? The old folks drag down the productivity of the child and even worse, there's nobody compensating him for it.
The Chinese Government is encourage people to fuck more (within reason), 2 kids is now the expected norm.
>>29378334
Jesus.
>>29378400
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/china-hacked-f22-f35-jet-secrets/
http://www.spiegel.de/media/media-35687.pdf
>Chinese cyber spies also obtained export-restricted data through defense industrial espionage on the B-2 bomber, F-22, F-35, Space-based Laser, and other weapons.
Is this sensationalist too though?
>>29378209
>muh death of the white race
>>>/pol/
>>29378404
>The west still can import immigrants to fill out the labor force to supplement it's aging population.
Nonono, perhaps you don't understand
This results in civil war eventually, no "multi-culti" empire will ever survive the long term.
The idea of the west importing foreigners is some sort of strategic economic move is pure nonsense as well. It is DESIGNED to destroy the west, that is its purpose.
China remains chinese, they might have problems, they might have issues, but it is NOTHING compared to the west being made powerless minorities in their own countries.
>China will need to import Vietnamese/Africans to supplement it's workforce
I have no clue where you get this idea.
What happens with "labor shortages" is that wages go up, which naturally solves problems.
Half the bottom of the pyramid for the US is non-whites who are not America in any practical way. In reality the US has it way worse.
>>29378209
>Talking about any looming problems in china is madness when the issues in the west DWARF theirs
lol name a single problem the United States has which isn't worse in China
>>29377777
>dat copy of Dubai
Chinks ripping off the Arabs now. Sad.
Also checked.
I got an idea.
3 super carriers for the Atlantic, just keep NATO happy.
The other 7 or 8 get put in the Pacific.
We stop giving a shit about the Indian Ocean, Africa, and middle east.
air bases in Singapore, Taiwan, Korea, Japan, Philippines, and Thailand.
organize a SEAsia NATO.
move US forces in Europe to Poland, Baltics, and Romania.
Put an army division in Western Australia and enough air force assets to move and protect that division.
put enough LAs and Virginias in the South China sea to give Chinese sonar techs a headache.
>>29378442
>Space-based Laser
Hold on, what?
>>29378404
>What happens when the ratio flips from 4-5 kids taking care of mom and dad, to 1 kid taking care of both parents? The old folks drag down the productivity of the child and even worse, there's nobody compensating him for it.
You're making the HUGE assumption that China doesn't develop a nursing home/assisted living industry, which is way more efficient (though not necessarily better) than family care.
>>29378543
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-25/american-babies-are-no-longer-mostly-non-hispanic-white
China remains chinese
Go to ANY US city, it ain't american.
These things are catastrophic problems that are ignored because mentioning them is racist, even conservative people follow a marxist race doesn't matter agenda.
China has problems yes, but its easy to forget they were basically a pre-industrial society just a few decades ago
>>29378549
It's shopped. Check dem pixels instead.
>>29378596
China passed a law a couple years ago, that allows aging parents to force their children to take care of them.
They also formally removed the 1 child policy a few years ago.
The chinks in the african colonies have had no such restrictions on children.
China fully expects that children will take care of their parents. that chinese from the colonies will come back to China to support family and country.
>>29378442
>the OP's post
Opinion is the same
>Your post
You're right on that one. The Chinese are KILLING us when it comes to RnD, on part because of what's mentioned in your pic, and also because of their superior education system, which is leading to better engineers who can reverse engineer our shit better and faster.
Still, there are plenty of programs that the US has that are still well-classified, and this espionage can only serve to catch them up.
>>29378600
If they're Non-white, but born in the US, they'll probably be a hell of a lot more productive than the immigrants squatting in Europe right now.
>>29378632
China is not "killing" the US on espionage
The US is killing itself because whites are a declining part of the population, which are actively excluded from top tier universities, and they bring in chinese engineers/scientists to do work who naturally have no loyalty to the US.
>>29378639
What difference does it make where they are born? We're talking about race & blood.
They don't need to be given citizenship to be productive, they don't need to LIVE HERE, to be productive.
Europe is engaging a slightly worse form of madness, but each & every immigrant is a drain on government funding.
>>29378539
>China remains chinese, they might have problems, they might have issues, but it is NOTHING compared to the west being made powerless minorities in their own countries.
Chinese unrest at the state is higher than it's been in years, the CCP is strangling the country with its authoritarianism.
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2015/country-chapters/china-and-tibet
Pretending that China is just one guy who will live and die for the CCP is retarded. Their economy is a bubble the size of jupiter and many Chinese nationals are moving them and their money into the west for safety reasons.
https://www.transparency.org/country/#CHN
Their massive growth has barely touched the average Chinese peasent, Whereas the US markets are largely diversified, China is heavily dependent on manufacturing which will be hardest hit by the automation freight train. Do you think the Chinese government can reemploy 100 million shoemakers before they starting rioting?
Their military is bad and will stay bad as long as the CCP keeps putting in their best friends as generals in order to prevent a coup.
>>29378585
It was the latest attempt at Reagan's SDI that we revived under Bush. Got cancelled in the late 2000s citing that it still was impractical when the MDA's GMD, SM-3, and THAAD batteries can give pretty similar results, without the tremendous R&D costs. The US is still developing laser-based ASAT weaponry, only it's on the back burner until the tech can be improved.
>>29377900
berine fag pls go
>>29378600
>China remains chinese
I mean if you're an inbred fucktard I guess it does. I guess you chugged that CCP cool-aid if you think that there isn't any civil unrest in China.
>>29377591
>bu.. but what if China builds 10 carriers!
Comments like this crack me up. It's not just building 10 carriers; it's also building the rest of the carrier battle group. First you're going to need to build enough aircraft to go on those 10 carriers. Without the destroyers, cruisers, and subs a carrier is just a sitting duck so you're going to need to build those too. Then you need to build all the ships and planes that go into keeping a carrier battle group supplied while it's at sea. Oh wait, you also need to crew all of this stuff with competent people as well. Don't forget, there isn't just the acquisition cost for all of this, you'll also need to fund ongoing operations and keeping all of this at sea and battle ready.
And China will do all this in 10 years. Right.
>>29378539
You can't fix a small laborforce with better wages.
You will learn this stuff in Econ 2, hang in there.
>>29378664
>the US is killing the US because less and less whites are part of the population, and are actively kept out of Universities
I go to one of those universities known globally for AE, and the VAST majority of the population is white, mind you it's a private school so maybe you're right. The problem is with the FUCKHUGE attrition rates that engineering depts. have, I mean sure it's culling the weak, but the fact that so many are weak really indicates there is a problem in the US education system,
We need to go Prussia/10 with education that way we can regain our technical advantage.
>>29378667
>>29378690
What difference does it make if they have civil unrest or not? Or if the CCP is replaced or not?
China is not dependent on foreign exports, thats an old meme which is no longer true.
My point is that china remains chinese, while 2016 America has no connection to the America of 100 years ago, and it will continue to get worse as its socially unacceptable to be "racist", aka realistic.
>>29378704
Wages rise, automation happens, low efficiency/unprofitable jobs are dumped, those people with stable high paying jobs now have more kids.
This is basic economic shit
Bringing in millions of foreigners creating permanent unrest in your country is not a "solution"
>>29378704
small workforce means rising wages. which gives economic inventive to automate or outsource labor.
China is already moving industry to Africa.
>>29378696
Can't you fucking read?
>>29378562
>organize a SEAsia NATO
Confirmed Child. Already tried. Only two SEA countries joined (founding member Philippines, Kingdom of Thailand)
It failed due to
-Vietnam War
-Sino-Soviet Split, China became close to the US
-Lack of regional fucks given by other Southeast Asians
-Inclusion of Britain and Australia (you know, the guys many people in the region wanted to be independent from).
-Lack of *any action* by SEATO on account of the US not wanting to escalate the commie threat.
-US support of Israel antagonizing SEA Muslims.
It's even more unlikelier now due to
-Issue is ultimately Vietnam and Philippines' problem. You know, the one that is too communist/chink, and the other too Western for the rest of the region to give a fuck about. Malaysia can work with China at the end of the day.
-Southeast Asians currently like the profitable Status Quo. No one is fucking up no one like back then. Also you think only western companies benefit off Chinese labor/market? Guess again: so do Southeast Asians.
-Chinese allies in the region (Laos, Cambodia, Burma (arguably)
-Chinese economic buttbuddies in the region (Singapore, Thailand).
-I assume Australia would be included so good job, you now pissed off Indonesians & Malaysians.
If any new SEATO is to be founded, its only SEA members would be Vietnam and the Philippines.
>>29378721
people with stable high paying jobs don't have more kids. especially in a climate where the jobs below them keep getting cut.
Just look at Japan, Europe, or the USA.
As things go and the economy gets less secure. people will have even fewer children or no children at all. So that they can maintain their standard of living.
>>29378721
Because China was never Chinese, their environment in in shambles, their Economy is going to implode and rich chinese nationals have no qualms moving their money into places which don't have stock markets imitating rollercoasters. Oh and their military is shit, but nobody ever thought otherwise
>>29378747
? People don't really have high paying jobs in the US, europe, or europe
They have declining wages & astonishingly high costs of living.
It is also a cultural thing, liberals don't have kids, while conservatives/christians do.
Generally the government is hostile towards whites having children.
>>29378754
I love the China will fall posts! No way a country of the size and population of a continent will ever be relevant!
>>29378596
First hand experience. Not taking care of your parents is a sign of lacking filial piety, which is a huge disgrace.
Sending your parents to an assisted living environment is a sign that you aren't willing to take care of them. The only time it's acceptable is if your situation absolutely precludes it. Like the case with my family where the offspring live in the US but the parents couldn't get visas.
There has to be a pretty big culture shift before the Chinese nursing home industry take off.
Lastly, there's the fact that nursing home/assisted living still needs money and shit to run. A lot of these old folks right now don't have a lot in savings, because they used it to raise their 3-5 kids, as well as pay for things like houses and dowry. When they live in a nursing home, it's still their kids footing the bill, because they don't have money left and the government sure as fuck isn't going to do it.
>>29378775
It's deflecting.
Climate change also don't happen because last winter had two weeks which were very cold!
>>29378775
I mean you could have just said you don't have an argument. The country is of course relevant, just not for the right way.
>>29378717
Attrition rates are whatever, the issue is when you end up with a 90% non-white/international engineering class.
That was my experience.
These sorts of systemic problems start at home, start with the media, start with the all female elementary schools, start with the lack of an identity/heritage/being part of something greater than themselves, among other things.
>>29378802
Literally every Chinese American is a spy waiting to be converted.
We should ban them from STEM programs and put them in internment camps to prevent that.
>>29377417
>USA to be cucked out of SCS by 2030
who cares? whites will be cucked out of US by the same year. that's gonna be a much larger issue. US will have to worry about a civil war, not a war with china.
>>29378817
If there was a large successful black country, it'd be the same for every black
Same for every hispanic, same for every indian, etc
Race & country are intrinsically linked.
We had like 4 crises while China archived its stunning growing rates year for year.
Crisis happen, we are dealing with them espencially if the rest of the world is interested that countries like China or USA are running.
>>29378768
Where are you getting this shit? Whites in the US are sitting just under 1.5 rate of replacement.
Socially we are helped by the fact that most families want at least 1 boy and 1 girl.
>>29377417
>2010
>carriers are just floating targets stupid americans will be crushed by glorious chink copy of mig
>2016
>americans will be crushed by the glorious fleet of chinese copy of russian carriers
but seriously though china isn't going to be making carriers when their strategy of building up islands is so much easier for them. Employs more people (this is important, political favors etc), requires less engineering, and is compatible with all their shit equipment
>>29377417
>China
>threat
>ramps
>you
>>29377820
Japan built themselves their own P-8, the Kawasaki P-1. Missile/torpedo carriers are an important component of a serious maritime focused defense force.
>>29378727
Can't you? The premise that China will somehow magically produce 10 carrier battle groups to "challenge US supremacy!" is a 50cent fantasy.
>>29377847
>In the end, those fortresses will be capable of resisting and soaking so much US firepower, that the US will spent a large part of their navy to take them out - which would be completly useless, since every Tomahawk that is launched against those islands will be one less for more important targets in China proper.
If it ever actually came to that, those islands would become craters. You're severely underestimating the amount of ordinance the US can make and throw at a stationary target. Missiles could be launched at them from the other side of the world and the people stationed there would have no means to maneuver away from them.
>>29378879
>post doesn't state that China will produce 10 carriers
>claims that people can't read
>>29378888
Not to mention there are no actual fortifications on them, and putting millions of tons of steel/concrete would probably sink the damn islands
>>29378836
Here's a fun activity
go look at the historical growth rates for South Korea and Japan. The time period you want to look for is 1960-1990 for Japan, and 1975 onward for South Korea.
Uninterrupted 10%+ per year for 30ish years is pretty "normal" for an east Asian country that gets serious about economic development.
The difference is that Japan and Korea have 100 million and 50 million people, China has 1.4 billion.
China started growing for real in 1981, and no surprise, they slowed below 10% once they hit that 30 year mark.
Now the surprise would be if they can avoid a Japan-style crash, or keep chugging along as a slower rate like South Korea does.
>>29378888
I like how you have no idea what you are talking.
>>29378912
>here is a completely baseless claim
>if you don't believe it you don't know what you're talking about
I bet you've never lost an argument.
>>29378898
>>29377591
>If China builds 10 carriers...
Holy fuck, are you pants-on-head retarded?
>>29378906
>china
>avoid a japanese style crash
just fyi, chink banks let investors put up their homes as collateral for margin call loans (most of which went sour when growth was 7%, not 8% as expected). This is a problem since back in June chink banks also wrapped up said mortgages covering those homes into securities, which were sold to shore up cash.
Growth on margin calls/investments is lower than expected -> home repossessed -> increased supply of housing -> lower home prices (below the break even point) -> bank takes a loss -> securities holders take a loss -> growth on margin calls/investments is lower than expected.
China is going through a US-style housing crash, the type which occurred in 2008. The only difference is that Beijing is straight up banning CEOs and "top investors" from selling stock, which gives them time but makes the problem worse when the crash itself does ultimately occur.
>>29378912
Look at the pictures of these islands
Everything on them is visible
Nothing is camoflaged, nothing is hardened
I highly doubt any chink seriously thinks they could hold these islands against a US carrier group/bombers.
>>29378954
stock/housing crashes don't destroy a country
They don't actually effect the average person much either
>>29378912
Put anti-ship missiles on island
>cost: several million dollars
Turn the island into a crater
>cost: one million per Tomahawk +the cost for ships and aircraft
Great job you just spend easily over one hundred millions to destroy a bunch of anti-ship launchers.
Didn't they say the same thing last week but about planes lel
>>29378984
Then the US will invade hte islands with muhreens
Rape the locals
And claim the South American Sea for themselves
>>29378975
KEK
E
K
Tell that to the American working class. Sorry, we call them "the poor" now.
>>29378984
+ your assets in danger which can end pretty expensive in best case or turn into a fucking disaster.
>>29378912
Aircraft carriers are mobile, islands are not. As it pertains to warfare it's fully possible that an aircraft carrier, targeted by an ICBM or SLBM, could possibly move away from it after launch. Assuming that it takes 2-3 hours for a large missile to reach the target zone, a carrier at 16 knots could move 50-60ish miles and potentially survive the detonation (or at least go from a full loss to just disabled).
At the very least, islands can't do this. If a missile is launched at them, all they can do is hunker down and hope they can intercept it. Which tends to be difficult if said bomb is coming at you at t 8,500 mph.
tl;dr all other equal, carriers have a greater chance of survival than islands since they are mobile
>>29378984
>100m
Unrealistic. Attacking an island with that infrastructure close to the Chinese mainland.
It would cost billions.
There is like no scenario that could justify it.
>>29378684
>arguing Hillary is actually a bit hawk-ish
>must be Bernie pls go
Still, this is too political either way.
>>29378975
>They don't actually effect the average person much either
>>29378664
>/pol/
>>29378975
>They don't actually effect the average person much either
About two years ago everyone was talking up about how Chinese citizens were becoming middle-class by investing in the newly deregulated stock market. People gain from the market, and people loose as well.
But you are right, stock crashes don't destroy a country itself. However, having a lot of angry poor people while tax revenues fall generally isn't a winning formula. This is especially true when China's upper class is more than happy to engage in capital flight to Australia, Canada, the US and EU. China is also a net food importer, thanks to desertification and Drought of their interior.
>>29379039
>Attacking an island with that infrastructure close to the Chinese mainland.
It would cost billions.
A single Tomahawk missile costs about ~1.5 million dollars. 100 of them costs 150 million, and their payloads range from pic related to nuclear warheads.
>Great job you just spend easily over one hundred millions to destroy a bunch of anti-ship launchers.
And depots, runways, facilities, electricity, and the rest. The islands are tiny so it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Plus islands cant move so they're even more fucked. Are you really saying a strike on tiny islands won't be a complete devastation to chinese logistics? Nigga please.
>>29379039
Tomahawks would also be easy targets to intercept.
Such anti-ship missiles are the coastal artillery of our time, the assets necessary to destroy them are way more costly than what it costs to operate a bunch of anti-ship launchers.
And the island is in range of the main land and does even have an own airport which can operate military aircraft.
>>29379147
>Tomahawks would also be easy targets to intercept.
then there's normal artillery, or the fancy new railguns the navy is starting to use
alternatively there's the ballistic missile route, remember that they don't need to be nuclear armed to be useful
>>29377646
>Janes sure sucks at Chinese stuff.
At least the website is pretty bad at that.
Anti-ship launchers on that island isn't groundbreaking in any way. It would be if China puts one or two squadrons of fighters on that thing.
>>29379147
m8 its a fucking flat island
Are you crazy?
They have no where to fortify or dig in, everything is exposed.
The first thing they are going to do in a fight is LEAVE & ABANDON those deathtraps
No tomahawks are not easy to intercept, what other country has even demonstrated the capability of intercepting terrain skimming cruise missiles?
>>29379147
We'll just launch missiles to intercept the missiles that you are launching to intercept the missiles that we are launching.
>US wins.
>>29379190
Now I wanna see how the Navy can break the laws of physics to archive that.
>>29378549
You fucking retard its an overlay for size comparison
>>29379171
It's a large, subsonic, non-manuvering, and non-stealthy target. The only advantage it has is its low altitude flight.
Any second rate IADS can shoot them down.
>>29379246
>Any second rate IADS can shoot them down.
Funny how Iraq didn't manage to stop enough of them.
>>29379267
Iraq had to defend an entire desert from them, not knowing from which direction they come from.
Those Chinese islands are smaller and a single HQ-9 brigade even without AWACS-support could cover them 360°, as the surrounding waters are flat.
The moment the LACMs come into the detection range of the SAM AESAs, they will be engaged. And even within horizon, 50km is plenty to shoot down a large number of Tomahawks. Hence, the US needs to fire literally hundreds for each fortified island, which would drain entire Ohio SSGNs and Ticos dry of their strike ordnance to take out a single island protected by SAM and CIWS.
And if those islands have those new Chinese radar blimps, they could extend their radar coverage to several hundreds of miles to take out incoming strikes at OTH.
>>29377627
YJ-62 is good, but it would be better if they arm them with YJ-18 or YJ-12, both being supersonic cruise missiles with long range.
Ideally, a combination of YJ-12 (400km) for close range supersonic spam, and YJ-18 for long range (600km) stealthy approach and terminal supersonic surprise attacks.
>>29378277
You realize that China is shifting their low tech manufacturing all to Africa already right?
Am I the only one who remembers that there used to be ships whose purpose was to bomb the fuck out of stationary targets, with weapons that were cheaper and harder to stop than missiles?
>>29379350
So what you're saying is that there will be a massive amount of Chinese military assets in the middle of an area drawn away from the mainland
and this is meant to be a bad thing for the US
hilarious
>>29379147
>And the island is in range of the main land and does even have an own airport which can operate military aircraft.
I get the impressions most people here don't know where woody island is
>>29379350
They cannot be reinforced
And they will all be destroyed
Further you are assuming their radars can even spot missiles flying 10 feet over sealevel
The US easily CAN fire hundreds of tomahawks at every island
>>29378442
Pulling my comment from the other thread:
It is.
Because it gives us insight into China's own cyber systems.
The price for whatever data they were allowed to gain was clearly worth it to those that are in "the know". By entering into the honeypot system may have allowed them to step over a few years in R&D, but in exchange we are able to follow where ever that data ends up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q731luP_DVQ [Embed]
>>29379438
Yes, the islands are covered by the assets in Hainan.
The idea the USA could operate close to woody island is quite dumb.
>>29379421
>>29379448
A ground-based base always has more capacity for weapons and ordnance than a fleet.
With the elimination of RAS as a role for the US CVBG's AOEs, the emptied Ticos, Burkes and Ohios have to sail back to Guam or even Hawaii (if they arent already Dongfeng'ed to death by then) to ressuply.
It is totally worth it, to sacrifice those islands to expend the USN's ready-to-use ordnance and to force them to head back to resupply, which would buy China critical time to get more DF-21D and DF-26s into position from within the underground great wall tunnel network to take out those american fleets that have revealed themselves by attacking China's islands.
The same strategy was used during WWII against the Japanese, where single cities in China were fortified to make the Japanese expend more divisions to siege them, which allows Chinese forces to surround and destroy the sieging forces. This strategy was called "Magnetic Warfare", where those strongpoints were thr "magnets", that bound large amounts of enemy forces, concentrating them in one single point, so that they could be destroyed all-together.
This strategy was particularily successful in the Battles of Changsha, where the Chinese killed 50.000 IJA troops in one go, which was the only Allied victory in 1942.
America being so obsessed in removing those islands with massive forces will tap into the same trap.
>>29377417
>boat with cuck ramp
>being able to dominate anything
>ever
>>29379497
we're not talking about the chinese mainland
We're talking about small artificial islands hundreds of miles out at sea
I don't think you understand that these islands are just sitting ducks, and wouldn't take even a fraction of US assets in the area to completely flatten.
>>29377417
>implying china will be around in 2030 to own lakes
>>29379497
I look forward to China following Imperial Japan more closely in the future
worked out great :)
>>29378664
>talking about "race & blood" in the United States of all fucking countries.
>2016 America has no connection to the America of 100 years ago. ((1916 America had no connection to the America of 1816 either))
Wew lad, get back to me when you can show me where Americans are genetically distinct from other ethnicities and races. Newsflash: Americans are mutts from all over the world, defining "blood and soil" nationalism in the US is an exercise in retardation.
>>29379394
And the US has sent theirs to China and Mexico. It'll probably go to Southeast Asia next.
>>29378539
>China remains chinese
Are you fucking retarded? Just because the Han Chinese are the most numerous doesn't mean that China doesn't have an assload of minorities. There are even fucking blonde people in the Northern and Western provinces who are born Chinese citizens that speak and read Chinese fluently.
As well, there's an assload of religions just waiting to bubble up underneath the Party's boots simply because they've been there so long.
>>29379611
>Race doesnt' matter
>"Black lives matters" protestors showing up all over the place
>Beyonce doing a black power act at the superbowl
uh huh
>>29379533
Those islands are still too large to get "flattened" by even hundreds of Tomahawks. You can render their runways useless and take out the installations, but you really cant destroy an island that was built on solid rock (or naturally grown, like Woody Island). There are already satellite images showing the excavation of giant underground caverns used for storing fuel and munitions - more and several times bigger than the ammo-bunkers on a Nimitz or Ford, storing missiles more numerous than the VLS complexes of Burkes and Ticos.
In the end, they are still magnets that will soak up lots of US firepower. Several Ohio SSGNs worth of Tomahawks and at least the air complements of 2-3 CVNs.
>>29377417
>oh no the USA might lose its ability to force SEA countries to obey it at gunpoint!
>b-b-but how will we defend our freedoms when we're invading foreign nations for profit??
>>29379623
97% Han people and most minorities being loyal to the country (due to massive benefits and affirmative action) speak another language.
If the Party falls, the first to get genocided by their hateful and envious neighbors are the rebellious minorities like the Uighurs and Tibetan. You will have millions of Han-Chinese Karadzics removing Kebab and Yak-Meat running amok against those who would like to split off the Chinese nation.
>>29379626
Niggers nigging as always doesn't mean that the US is on the brink of total race war collapse. By the way, you might be surprised to know that up until the late 19th century the US was 20% black, twice as much as today, but there was no race war. Nor are blacks a growing segment of the population (they do fine killing themselves with abortion, obesity, drugs, and violent crime).
The man who took this photo is rustling more jimmies around asia than any other troll in the world.
>>29379688
And this is for Greenpeace: Stolen corals and cigarettes.
>>29379633
m8, they will cluster bomb the whole island, and starve out anyone hiding underground(assuming there even is any)
>>29379694
>>29379688
What are we looking at?
>>29379700
If the ordnance or the delivery vehicles can get through the IADS
>>29379718
Why do you think the US is producing the F-35?
>>29379714
Chinese island reclaimation.
China's literally growing larger by the second.
>>29379688
>>29379694
>>29379706
>>29379728
I've got experience running heavy equipment like track-hoes and front end loaders, think I could get a job out there doing this?
>>29379723
Because Lockmart wills it.
>>29379755
Most probably. Since they actually build on quite solid foundation, conventional heavy equipment and construction practices would be still suitable.
I'd actually just go there for the perfect beach, water and fishes during off-time.
>>29379755
Do you speak Chinese and are you willing to work for $500 a month?
>>29379784
Any idea where I would look? I'd like to get out of the US for a while. The wife could use a taste of not having me around for a bit too, she's getting a little codependent.
>>29379798
>Speak Chinese
Nope, not at all. I've got a mild grasp on pidgin though.
>Willing to work for $500/month
Sure, depending on what my living expenses would be like.
>>29379798
Manual workers in China are nowadays actually well paid, due to one-child policy emptying out China's cheap work-force and young people not willing to go to manual labour again as their parents.
>>29379805
Go to China and apply for a visa and a jerb. Like so many other laowais working there.
>>29379418
Sure. They're currently being developed.
>>29379633
Look up the pacific theater of world war 2 and see how the whole island thing worked out for the japs
>>29379954
An island base back then couldnt form its own Area Denial zone as it does today, with the advent of long range guided missiles.
In fact, China's artificial islands are already parts of their A2AD, with at least OTH radar arrays being confirmed by satellite images.
>>29379350
>the US needs to fire literally hundreds for each fortified island
Hello my scenario, if the US decided to destroy the facilities on those islands a simple brute force attempt is not how it would go down.
>>29379954
It did quite well.
>>29379497
>With the elimination of RAS as a role for the US CVBG's AOEs, the emptied Ticos, Burkes and Ohios have to sail back to Guam or even Hawaii (if they arent already Dongfeng'ed to death by then) to ressuply.
Not sure if serious.
>>29380033
The USN's AOEs do not do RAS anymore. This is an established fact.
>>29380059
Only the PLAN does this still.
>>29378833
Lol
>>29379784
>off time
>working for China
Pick one
>>29380319
Chinese workers these days get massive amount of holidays. And they also retire with 55 already on average.
The state wants them to drive up consumption and leave their jobs for the young people to do.
>>29379651
>oh no the China might lose its ability to force SEA countries to obey it at gunpoint!
Fixed.
>>29380336
Not sure how much truth there is to that. But 55 retirement age is a horrible idea, ask Greece.
>>29377571
You're fucking retarded if you think Japanese DDHs are remotely equivalent to the Panzerschiffes
>>29380059
>sourceless claim
>established fact
>>29377591
>China builds 10 carriers
Nigga please
>>29380348
China has only a rudimentary social system and the pensions are paid mostly by state owned companies themselves, where the retirees used to work for. In the private sector, it is different and they only get the normal standard pensions that are way low - hence why saving rate is so big in China.
Chinese domestic debts arent exactly driven by social costs, but rather faulty investments/loans during the real-estate boom era of the late 2000s. This is a problem indeed, but not one that requires them to gut the already rudimentary social system.
>>29378975
Conservative economics everyone
>>29379350
Okay, do they have those assets at the moment on these islands? if they do not, this analysis is entirely speculative
>>29377417
>cucked
opinion disregarded
>>29380397
HQ-9 is confirmed, so far.
So are the YJ-62 AShMs and OTH radars. Fighter/Bomber regiment also.
Only radar-blimp is speculation.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/17/china-places-missiles-woody-south-china-sea-islands
>>29377417
I honestly kinda think that the US being less powerful on a global scale is a good thing.
There needs to be balance in the world and you can't get that with just one superpower.
>>29378632
>>29377417
50 center prease go
daily reminder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9PrhM1OFok
>dis is de chinese navey
>amricran prane prease go aray qruickry.
>>29377417
Time for MORE funding. We need at least two carriers a year now to even hope countering the soon-to-be Chinese 10,000 ship navy.
>>29380547
hahahah what the fuck
>>29380547
always good for a chuckle
>>29380547
can anyone understand what the chink is saying after go away qrikry?
leave immediatery in order to avoid ???
>>29380838
misunderstanding
>>29380915
ah that makes sense, would be easier to avoid a misunderstanding if they could find someone that could talk more clearly
All the more reason we need The Donald
>>29377417
The non-greentext paragraph is correct.
>>29380926
leave immediately american plane this is chinese navy
>>29377496
This is a pretty left-leaning foreign policy think tank.
>>29377571
>30 new frigates in 5 years
Source?
>>29378277
We don't decide where we switch Chinese industry lmao
>>29378404
China can import workers as well. It's wages are rising quickly, so already a lot of ASEAN workers go to the cities.
Assuming current trends in demographics with developing countries is inherently misleading. Korea in 1990 looked like China today. Yet Korea's population is still growing because of immigrants.
>>29377417
>implying study is not loaded to get more jew golds for defense contract
>implying the Chinese will continue the same rate of construction til 2030
>>29378549
>americans
Smh desu senpai
>>29378625
>China passed a law a couple years ago, that allows aging parents to force their children to take care of them.
Yeah, no.
>>29378296
Just an idea for reform in the Army:
1. Adjust the BAH. Neither Enlisted or Officers dont get to live off post. Communal Barracks for everyone. You can visit your families in the segregated housing while off duty, but you eat and sleep with your unit. They goal is to cut spending while not fucking over families. The wives can get jobs and the kids can help out with details around the base, they can cook and clean instead of having the army contracting menial labor. Think of how a farmer runs his farm when he's got a shitload of kids. That's how base commanders should run their installations.
2. National Guard units will take over the high tech and mechanically intensive combat roles. Artillery and engineering assets that are super specialized and expensive can be rolled out in the ARFOGEN cycles. MLRS trains to do the worlds most expensive drive by shootings. Engineer Assault platoons train solely for clearing obstacle. Etc. Etc. Lean harder on Guard and Reserve civilian skills.
3. Revise leave policies and issue letters of marque for soldiers to do gangster shit. Having a problem in a domestic or foreign territory? Call the army, let them send disgruntled E-4s to earn a little extra pay and crush some skulls.
4. Cut the middle man contractor out of the equation. An enlisted private getting paid $20,000 plus medical and food can just as easily stand over a group of TCN slaves with a clip board as the KBR contractor charging $200,000.
5. Make good on VA, Education, and retirement benefits. Which is better? A system that takes care of a couple thousand soldiers willing to get fucked up with the same injuries and better quality training over 20 years, or 10x that who cut out after 6 years with the same injuries, and have to quickly replace them with expedient training methods?
Then put all the savings into an even more cock-swinging navy, its the only organization in the DOD that actually scares the fuck out of other nations anyway.
>>29378954
Notice how the stock market is still up over the year?
Yeah. Econ 101.
Also, only 90 million Chinese even are investors. Of those no one knows how many own stocks.
So the stock bubble finally bursting was rather meaningless.
>>29378997
>they
No that was a US general
>>29377417
I'd take that more seriously if their carriers didn't have poverty ramps.
>>29381077
Literally all of those are terrible ideas
>>29380933
I believe he is the only one talking about this even. WW3 will be great.
>>29377571
>Japan is doing a intetwar Whermacht move with its helo """" destroyers""".
Jesus fucking christ this meme needs to die.
Japan is already an xbox hueg carrier in its own right. It doesn't need to build tiny versions of itself.
What it *does* need--what everybody on the SCS needs right now--is ASW pickets with long loiter times and deep benches.
And that's exactly what the Hyugas are: The latest in a long line of Japanese destroyers optimized to range far and wide, spamming rotary wing ASW all day every day.
>>29381416
If Hyuuga is so great why don't you marry her?
>>29378596
>Chinese culture for 500
>what is filial piety Alex?
>>29379027
>Assuming that it takes 2-3 hours for a large missile to reach the target zone
>ICBM
>SLBM
>taking 2 to 3 hours to reach target
>120 to 180 minutes
>to reach its target
>>29378975
If it's anything like what happened in 2008 in America it's going to suck fucking ass for the Chinese.
God damn everywhere I went it was like everyone became a nigger overnight, or slavic at least. All the unemployed people just sit around in someone's empty house drinking and doing drugs.
>>29381426
My heart already belongs to another, anon.
>Deep Ocean Comprehensive Support Base/Very Large Floating Structure received funding in the next 5 year plan.
http://www.cannews.com.cn/2016/0324/150690.shtml
THE FLOATING FORTRESSES OF 1984 WILL BECOME REALITY!
>>29381542
As predicted some time ago.
http://www.popsci.com/chinese-shipyard-looks-build-giant-floating-islands
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-to-build-giant-floating-islands-2015-8?IR=T
>>29381542
>1984
movie or book?
>>29381574
book, you pleb.
>>29378334
Capitalism gone wild
>>29377900
she already sold out America's uranium to Russia (who sold it to Iran) for Clinton campaign contributions. No reason to believe she wouldn't let the Chinese walk all over the US.
>>29381767
Selling american secrets have been EZ money for them
Once upon a time it was called treason
>>29381582
I thought in the book military technology had stagnated at a 1940s level because the countries didn't actually want to destroy one another.
>>29377417
the solution is simple
philippines for 51st state
>>29378664
>What difference does it make where they are born? We're talking about race & blood.
does the prospect of studies saying mankind all originated from Africa make your blood boil? Does it make you seethe with anger? Are the Jews to blame for that once again?
>>29381861
>Mfw Chinese EW systems are trash
It doesn't matter how many islands you build if your radars can't function
>>29381511
Shit destroyer
>>29377606
US spends more on military as a percentage of the GDP than any non-Arab, non-Israel, non-African dictatorship except Russia.
>>29381989
>mfw the majority of the PLAN is on AESA while the USN is still on bumfuck PESA
Pls join the 21st century any time americuck
>>29381800
>philippines
>state
>>29382122
Types of radar aren't indicative of quality.
The F2's AESA was outperformed by Russian twisted cassegrain radars.
>>29381989
PLAAF/PLAN EW is actually top-notch.
Y-8/Y-9 based stand-off ECM carriers and the incoming JD-16 Sino-Growler are both capable of jamming murrican radars.
Especially the AESA-based long-band jamming arrays on the Y-8G (Y-9G has two of them) will jam even UHF/VHF-bands used by the E-2D.
>>29382208
Yes, top-notch in all those situations where they were used
which conflicts were they used in, anon?
>>29382225
In what conflicts did the US use their EW to jam modern IADS?
You couldnt even jam the serbs enough to prevent one of your stealth bombers to get shot down.
>>29381416
They look more like something to spam cruise missiles at desu.
It's also a country running out of resources quickly, don't see them bragging much about that.
holy shit this is some /pol/ level bullshit right here.
95% of you are fucking retarded nogunz/nowar fags.
>>29382274
At the time, Iraq.
>You couldnt even jam the serbs enough to prevent one of your stealth bombers to get shot down.
The fact that you would say that makes you lose all credibility.
Fucking hilarious
>w-who cares if the air campaign was a total success, we managed to shoot down one stealth bomber! Its a v-victory!
>>29381989
Chink EW is modern on paper tbqhfamilia
>>29382422
>air campaign over Kosovo
>total success
why is it so important that america is the top military country
it's just natural that they would be surpassed
>>29382455
because we'll nuke the world if we're second place
sure would be nice seeing Pacific War 2.0
also footage of murricans bombing islands
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhvCb9uyy4M
>>29382422
>Iraq
>Kosovo
>Not even basic S-300P
Jamming old ass SA-2s does not count.
>>29382640
Uh, Iraq had SA-10s, SA-3s, SA-6, SA-8, and SA-9s.
>>29382441
It was.
>>29382112
~3% really isn't much when you consider the size of the US economy
>>29382112
the number you're looking for is 4%.
now to be fair that 4% in actual value is legitimately more than the groups you mentioned spend. However proportionally it's still actually less than many others.
>>29377417
>superpower by 2030
POO IN THE LOO
O
O
I
N
T
H
E
L
O
O
>>29382455
Are you aware of what happens historically when a Pax shifts to a multi-polar world?
As a hint, what big world event happened in 1914.
>>29377417
I also heard India would be a world power by 2030. By then, it'll be China getting BTFO by India's poo torpedo
>>29382812
The US hasn't spent 4% since it left Iraq.
>>29382124
>>29382812
Did you literally just say that 4% is proportionally less than many other nations that spend less than 4%?
>>29382441
Well considering that we managed to stop most of the Serbian offensives and speed up an end to the conflict, yes it was a total success.
>>29382896
I wonder if I'll live long enough to see these borders change again
or western europe
>>29382124
Actually that would've been great
>end all of this Filipino political bullshit before it begins
>continue running and regulating our own permanent stake in SE Asia
>Most flips already speak English
>cheap manufacturing base
>Military bases in the Philippines coupled with the ones in Japan provide a broad front to contain China
Hell my Grandfather moved here from Flipland and straight up said things would've been better if the Philippines had gone for statehood, or at least remained as a territory.
