Those of you who have both...which do you prefer and why?
>>29308717
What you don't dual wield?
>>29308717
I tend to prefer the feel of an AR shooting, but I prefer the aesthetics and weight balance of an AK, if that makes any sense.
AR.
I shoot the AK when I want to feel like a zapman. AR for everything else.
>>29308723
It does. I like the heft of the AK. Plus theres something about wood furniture that just feels better sometimes.
>>29308717
I've only fired fa m4s and fa aks. M4s are ridiculously better. Sometimes I think the people advocating AKs over M4s are really telling the truth and are that dumb.
>>29308717
I dun have both, I picked on what is native. D:
Ak, the recoil is just right for me.
I have both. I prefer the AR.
>easier to customize with many more options including match grade triggers
>can easily swap uppers to change calibers, barrel length, etc
>better LOP for my ogre arms (although this could be fixed with some aftermarket stock)
>DI is quieter when suppressed
Don't get me wrong, I still love my AKs, I just like my ARs more.
>>29308742
How tall are you?
AK in 5.45 is my favorite of the three
I love my AKs in 5.45 and 7.62 and I love my AR in 5.56, but ammo and parts aside if I could only have one it'd be an AK in 5.45 no hesitating.
>>29308717
AK for fun. AR for serious. Unless we're talking about 5.45 then all bets are off.
AK is waaay more fun to shoot. AR feels purpose-built.. It is merely a tool. It's good at its job, but there's nothing that makes me WANT to shoot it.
I really wish the AK market would explode like the AR market did. While AKs have gone up in price since 2008-ish, ARs have come down drastically. Part of this is because the AR market is flooded with startup companies making parts and receivers.
If the AK market would expand a bit, the prices could come down and we'd get more options. Part of me think the "Nyet! Rifle is fine!" faggots have killed any chance of that happening though. I mean, who would risk starting a company based around AKs when a huge portion of the userbase jerks off to plum furniture or furniture from obscure parts kits instead of new stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love retro stuff, but if you shun everything but retro nobody is going to want to make new stuff for your platform.
>>29308717
depends on what im after. when im going for yotes, the AR. when im running off hogs, AK. sight wise, i like the AK's sights, but the AR is better at tracking and dropping the smaller targets.
>>29308787
they only way the ak market will explode is if sanctions go away
china or russia could flood the market in minutes
>>29308787
AK's aren't as modular at the AR is. add that to the returning vets who used its military counterpart and the fact that AR's are domestic and AK's never really had a chance.
>>29308794
I'm really talking about the aftermarket more than the gun themselves, although have a surplus of cheap AKs would be a great way, if not the only way, to jump-start that market.
AR. They're simply a better design.
I only prefer AKs when you get down to really compact rifles.
Why not make some sort of horrific ak/ar hybrid monster gun?
>>29308717
I love AK's but because of my double vision, I can't pick up AK iron sights without closing one eye, so I had to sell them.
Have both hardly shoot the AR
>>29309096
AR shit magazine, toy like retail aftermarket, at its soul its just a glorified sporting/target rifle, 5.56 is a joke.
I love my ak I want to like it better, but honestly the ar just works better for me I can hit more shit farther everything.
I don't have an AR but I have put probably 500 rounds through various ones in my lifetime. I like ak's because they have some kind of intangible lure to them, just a feeling of sturdy, rugged simpleness. I own a 7.62x39 ak and I am looking to buy a 5.45 in the future, nothing against an AR, infact I will most likely build one soon.
I won't argure that the AK is the "better" rifle, infact I think the AR patyern is the best in the world. AR's are like driving an automatic, it's so simple and it works flawlessly, but for me, it leaves somthing to be desired.
I drive a manual and I'm an AK guy.
I think my AKs are much cooler. I've got four of them.
I know my AR is far more practical and the better rifle. I have one and will probably buy one or two more at some point.
I have a really nice tricked out LMT with an aimpoint and all the fixings.
I also have a simple M70ab2 with some Yugowars surplus furniture.
They are both great, but my PTR91 is what I would trust over either of them.
>better sights
>308 stronk
>is a proper fucking spear with bayonet attached
>tougher overall than the AK or AR
Though I do prefer the AK for home defense because with the stock folded it is very maneuverable and the 75rd drum mag is dead on reliable.
The G3 was just not intended for indoor use.
>>29308732
Why not get wood furniture on your AR?
I like the AK because in a range full of people shooting AR's covered in rails and accessories I know the first time that thing shoots they are all going to jump.
>>29308717
My AR-15 is just about the most comfortable rifle I have ever used. Everything just feels right, like it's a part of my body.
The AK is fun, and I love the visceral sensation of the bigger boolit and the long stroke gas piston, but it is an inferior rifle by every measure.
Full disclosure, I have an underfolder AK, so that might color my opinion. However, if you square up on the rifle, it's a complete non-issue. The only people who complain about underfolders are people who don't know how to hold rifles in the first place.
>>29309317
Curious how it's inferior?
>>29309331
The trigger is worse, it's less accurate (for one reason or another, I don't really care if it's the rifle's fault or my fault, I care that the bullet hits the thing I want it to) It's heavier, it has rock-in magazines, the recoil is not perfectly in-line with the stock like on an AR, and I prefer apeture sights to open sights. As a function of its weight, it doesn't point as easily as the AR, and the bigger round means that doesn't translate into less recoil. It doesn't have a bolt hold open. Lastly, the safety lever is absolute garbage, and should never have been put on any rifle after the Remington model 8.
Like I said, I love the visceral sensation of shooting it, even just handling it. But it's simply not as good of a rifle as an AR-15.
>>29309361
>The trigger is worse
Sure, if you put a shitty trigger in the rifle.
>it's less accurate (for one reason or another, I don't really care if it's the rifle's fault or my fault, I care that the bullet hits the thing I want it to)
"No". A proper built AR and a proper built AK will both shoot 1.5-3 MOA at 100 yards. The only probably the AK has is 400+ yards in 7.62x39 and 550+ yards in 5.45x39
>It's heavier,
A milled one? Sure. However m SLR-104fr with it's polymer furniture weights exactly the same unloaded and almost the same loaded as my AR.
>it has rock-in magazines
Which are objectively superior when the weapon gets dirty or frozen.
>the recoil is not perfectly in-line with the stock like on an AR
Depends on the model. Most modern rifles have the barrel inline with the barrel
>As a function of its weight, it doesn't point as easily as the AR
Again "no". Entirely depend on the person and what furniture you have on it.
>and the bigger round means that doesn't translate into less recoil
>all AK rifles shoot 7.62x39
Also if you struggle with it than you should get yourself checked out.
>It doesn't have a bolt hold open
Because it doesn't need one. It just have a different manual of arms.
>the safety lever is absolute garbage, and should never have been put on any rifle after the Remington model 8.
Again subjective and a different manual of arms
>Like I said, I love the visceral sensation of shooting it, even just handling it. But it's simply not as good of a rifle as an AR-15.
Kill yourself.
>>29309393
> I like the ak platform more so you should kill yourself
Go whine some more, and after that maybe stop critiquing someone for their objectiveness and turning around and using it in your own argument you fucking faggot
>>29309361
>new trigger easily get it to service grade
>AKM 6.8lbs, AK74M 7.5lbs
>straight comb stocks adopted with AKM circa 1959
>prefer sights easily changed
>bigger round assuming 7.62, consider 5.45
>safety at thumb on modern AK service rifles
>>29309405
Subjective*
7.62 is god tier. Can have fun with it, hunt with it, etc. AR-15 is for faggots who shoot at paper pretending they are spec ops.
>>29309405
"No"
>>29309417
It is a free country
>>29308717
AR-15 for practical reasons.
The AK-74 is something I wish everyone used and the ammo was common. But for pretty obvious reasons the AR-15 is superior.
One is modular and versatile.
The other is durable.
>>29309393
that involves thinking bro. AR guys are too busy braiding paracord, online shopping, and daydreaming like pussybois.
>>29309393
Vatnik tears are delicious, thank you.
all your replies boil down to "if you can't handle it it's your problem" without actually acknowledging that the AR-15 never had those problems to begin with.
>>29309438
Actually only one boils down to that.
>>29309439
Half*
>>29309438
>y-you vatnik
Because everyone who disagrees with you is a vatnik slavboo whatever right? Fuck off.
I had my brother visit, a big AR fan
I hand him various rifles of mine, SKS, type 3 AK, AKM, so on.
I hand him my AR, he literally shoulders in and starts doing this tactical crab walk
>>29309314
Really? My AR is louder than my brothers AK.
>>29309200
Manual master race
>>29308806
that's the thing though. After the AWBs, ARs exploded in popularity. Most people back in the day had fudd guns, but after people realized that liberals really do want to come for all our guns, more people bought ARs and the market adjusted accordingly
>>29309393
>Most modern rifles have the barrel inline with the barrel
>>29308717
I've had both but sold my AR. I would probably choose an AK but the AR has merits and I wouldn't feel undergunned or anything by having one.
>>29309519
I was gonna let him keep that one. He also seemed to not know about the giant gas piston on top of the AK that happens to affect the recoil and keep it from being perfectly inline, while on the AR, the actual gas expansion happens inside the BCG directly behind the bolt, meaning the recoil impulse is exactly in line.
He's also trying to defend the lack of a BHO and the god awful safety lever as being a result of anything other than economic considerations. And yes, I understand that the manual of arms is different, but there is still no reason why a rifle should have a safety that cannot be actuated without taking your rifle out of the ready position.
>>29309532
DI future is very bright in next generation small arms design..
>>29309532
>but there is still no reason why a rifle should have a safety that cannot be actuated without taking your rifle out of the ready position.
I'm an AKfag but this is my main complaint on the rifle. I know the Galil and possibly the R4 have MUCH better safeties, there's no excuse for it.
that being said, the AR is the better built and designed gun, hands down. It all comes down to preference though tbqh
>>29309200
I drive a six speed manual and I prefer the AR.
Get on my level.
>>29309314
I prefer slinging my 7.62 REAL fucking Nato brass three lanes over from my M1A-A1. That shit is a fucking cannon.
>>29309393
This is what slavboos actually believe.
The AK is not only objectively inferior, it is also less accurate, less reliable, and has less range.
Grab an exit bag, Hakmed.
>>29309200
>slavshit = manual
no
bolt gun would be manual transmission
AR = western automatic transmission
AK = GAZ or Lada built auto transmission
>>29309409
>6-8 lbs
>good trigger
Enrich yourself, kikeboo.
>>29309595
The AK-74 and AR-15 are somewhat comparable in reality.
One is more durable, the other is modular and easy to modify.
>>29308717
I do 3-gun, and I like the feel and kick of AK much more. It's hard to explain, but AR feels like a toy that's barely holding together.
>>29309081
CMMG does. Its even called the mutant.
>>29308717
Ex 11b here and owner of ar15, wasr10, saiga, and a yugo slab side. The ease of magazine change, manipulation of the safety, sights, weight of ammo, and farther range make the ar far better to me. Only thing that i like better about the ak is the feeling that you have a sturdy tool that will not break
>>29308717
First gun was an AK, love them to death. AR came later. Over the last year or so I've really been drifting toward the AR. Ergos, man.
>>29311324
Fair enough.
BTW, I was Sand Hilton C/4/30 OSUT
>>29311324
>Only thing that i like better about the ak is the feeling that you have a sturdy tool that will not break
Which is ironic, because it has just as many failure points as an AR and is just as prone to fail, albeit under different conditions.
I own both, and while I love shooting my AK the AR is simply the better platform. It's more refined whereas the AK hasn't changed much since its inception. At least not here in the west. What Russia is doing on their own clay doesn't have much bearing in this conversation considering nobody can get their hands on those rifles.
Everybody in this thread going, "AKs are more durable" need to stop spouting memes; you all sound like 12 year olds who watched some bullshit show about guns on the Discovery Channel. Do some damn research. I'm not talking about Ian's mudtest, either.
>>29308787
Im still wondering why there is no domestically produced AKs on the market. Im not talking about US assembled or converted imports, but straight up mfg'd from raw steel. Trunions, bbl's, and bolt carriers etc. all made inhouse. seems if these were aimed at the higher end of the market it could be profitable
or does this exist and ive just not heard of it because i live in a cave?
>>29308794
I would buy 10 polytech aks if this happened
>>29308717
I have more fun with my AK and my AK is hands down more reliable (not saying it is a 100% more reliable platform because recent events (Ian doing insane things to the guns and the AK in his test was the one that had issues- I don't really have any comment on the validity of his test), but that in my general usage the rifle is far more reliable. Also the 5.56 ARs bire me, looking at .277 wolverine and then maybe my views will change
>>29309261
my nigga
>>29308717
Shooting things close, ak
Shooting things far away, ar
Shooting in a dirty place, ak
Shooting in a tidy place, ar
Shooting through somthing, ak
........etc
Both good for something, both shit at something
>>29311687
>Shooting in a dirty place, ak
This meme needs to die.
>mud_test.mp4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73uXs3xGU
>dirt_test.mp4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=synlZgnTnXg
>sand_test.mp4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHlFfhrDn2c
The nice thing about the AK is that it's so simple that if you find one buried for 20 years, you can dig it up, CLEAN IT OUT, then fire it. The important phrase there is "clean it out" in case you missed it. It's not going to function well in a dirty environment.
>>29311532
>Im still wondering why there is no domestically produced AKs on the market
There's a few, but they're all shit.
I think the reason no company has really tried to make a quality domestic AK is because of the userbase itself. Just look at this thread. You have AK users pointing at the massive AR aftermarket as a down side and not a huge pro. You add a railed gas tube to an AK and everybody is screaming memes down your throat for "ruining" a perfect rifle.
>>29311489
Do they still got them shithouses at the ranges with all the leeches in them?
>>29311507
>>29311804
>le smug George face
Don't refute any of my points. That's cool. Keep believing fuddlore and memes that have no base in reality.
>>29311532
I was under the impression that the century arms c models were made entirely in the US, I can't say for positive bit every where you read or see them that's the first thing they brag about
The AK is limited somewhat by it's ergonomics and the 7.62x39. But I also love the heavier bullet, charging handle, and rock-in mags. For a brush gun I can abuse, I love it.
The AR is the single best semi-auto I have ever used for precision shooting. Plus, the 5.56x45 may be the best predator/varmint round ever invented.
The AR is my 6 speed coup, while the AK is my 10 year old F-250.
ak47 if you want reliability
ar10 if you want accuracy
AR recoil spring makes it feel like a toy
>>29308762
>DI is quieter
>DI
>Quieter
Into le trash you go
lol ya
ar
AR is literally worst rifle. Mags are bad with the casing and bullet shape. Direct Impingement is bad system with gas. Plastic furniture like toy. Sights difficult acquiring due to target sight type.
AK however best rifle. Rock lock mags can pushups. Stroke piston never fails. Wood furniture like real gun. Sights open for easy acquisition like military weapon should.
AK > AR is simple
>>29309081
>>29312031
>>29311958
Enjoy your piston pop
>>29311507
an AK is designed to be fucking simple you tard
also, an AK is more reliable in that if shit gets into your gun, an AK doesn't immediately shit the bed
granted an AR is a closed system so this is less likely, but not implausible in the slightest.
an AK also has less small parts prone to breaking, and can be beaten up more because of the simplicity of the system.
It also doesn't need to be cleaned as religiously as an AR.
I like both, but keep coming back to my AK.
It is much more reliable than my AR, it seems like my AR fails at least once every 400 rounds.
AR comes into it's own when shooting 300+ yards though.
>>29312109
>an AK is designed to be fucking simple you tard
Which it is. So is an AR. Neither rifle is some complex machine. Both rifles are, at their core, super simple machines.
>also, an AK is more reliable in that if shit gets into your gun, an AK doesn't immediately shit the bed
But that's wrong, as proven here >>29311736.
The nice thing about AKs is that the fuck-huge longstroke piston is more robust than the AR's gas tube. If you buried both rifles and dug them up in 20 years, neither would fire right from the get go. If you cleaned out the AK, it would almost certainly fire and cycle. If you cleaned out the AR it would almost certainly fire, but it would also probably fail to cycle.
>granted an AR is a closed system so this is less likely, but not implausible in the slightest.
The AR isn't a closed system, it's just machined to tighter tolerances so dirt and debris has fewer ways to get in. A true closed system would be something like the F2000.
>an AK also has less small parts prone to breaking
What parts are prone to break on an AR that aren't prone to break on an AK? The answer is nothing. Why do people such as yourself think the AR is some sort of Swiss Watch or G11 monstrosity? The only moving parts are the rotating bolt and the fire control group. The only moving parts on an AK are the rotating bolt and the fire control group.
>and can be beaten up more because of the simplicity of the system
That's a straight up fallacy. Reading your post it liking talk to Fudd McGee down at my LGS. I bet you also think the Russians designed the AK so they could fire our round but we couldn't fire theirs.
>It also doesn't need to be cleaned as religiously as an AR.
Actually, it does. And when I say that, I mean both rifles can be neglected for significant periods of time and still function flawlessly. Go into /arg/ and check out some of the tripfag rifles. One hasn't cleaned his gun in 10k rounds and shoot suppressed a lot, yet it still works.
AK in 5.45 is superior to any 5.56 AR. Prove me wrong.
Protip: you can't
>>29312199
AKs in 5.45 still use the same system of operation as an AK in 7.62x39 and is still subject to the same issues of AKs in the 7.62x39 caliber.
I've just proven you wrong.
I think the AK is more fun to shoot for plinking.
If I'm actually trying to do ranged shooting or decent groups I'd prefer the AR. Also prefer AR if I'm gonna be carrying it on a hike or something.
>>29312219
Name the issues with proof or never reply to me again faggot
>>29312193
>But that's wrong, as proven here >>29311736.
If you think a test in which one rifle's receiver is filled with mud and the other is clean is somehow valid, you need to think it over a while.
I don't get why people must have be rifle absolutely superior. Anyone who owns both can tell you each has it's pros and cons. My AK is more reliable. My AR is more modular and has a bigger range of options for parts.
Appreciate both for what they are, don't be a fanboy.
>>29312230
The longstroke piston action of an AK isn't ideal for suppression and will not be as quiet as a DI or a roller-delayed blowback gun. The proof is in the piston pop. It's for this reason that piston ARs -while cleaner than DI ARs- are not as good at suppression.
The gun itself is still too open which allows debris to get in and cause the gun to fail. See the three videos posted here: >>29311736
The safety is in an awkward position and difficult to manipulate (a problem solved by some variants like the Galil).
>user error!
Not being able to operate the safety without taking your gun off-target and your finger off the trigger is a design flaw.
The charging handle suffers the same issue as the safety to a certain degree. It required you to take your finger off the trigger and your rifle off-target.
That being said, I'm not saying the AK is a bad system, just that it has flaws. Likewise, I'm not saying the AR is a perfect system, just that it has less flaws than the AK. I actually really love the 5.45x39 round and think a Galil chambered in it would be the ultimate AK.
>>29312238
>If you think a test in which one rifle's receiver is filled with mud and the other is clean is somehow valid, you need to think it over a while.
In those test, the AK had its dustcover closed in every one. It wasn't filled with mud. The problem was mud and dirt getting into the chamber causing the bolt to not properly seat.
I do appreciate both rifles, but the fallacy that the AK is some sort of unstoppable rifle that can shoot with its receiver filled with concrete needs to die. If I didn't appreciate them, I wouldn't own multiple of each.
>>29312193
>If you buried both rifles and dug them up in 20 years, neither would fire right from the get go.
Give me a minute for this, pretty sure I've seen a video of 25 year old AKs being dug up in Africa and fired
>The AR isn't a closed system, it's just machined to tighter tolerances so dirt and debris has fewer ways to get in.
This is just semantics and you should kill yourself. My point still stands
>What parts are prone to break on an AR that aren't prone to break on an AK?
how about the fact that I can use my AK as a fucking club and fuck all will happen to it. An AR has a buffer tube, if something happens to the stock you're most likely fucked.
the insides of an AR will hang up without fail if ANY debris gets inside. MAC proved this, Vietnam proved this with the M16A1s and their shitty powder, and military trials proved this. They can't operate in dogshit conditions without being cleaned regularly. An AK doesn't need to be cleaned unless you literally filled the fucker with sand or mud. Even then, Mattv2099 filled his with fucking fruitcake and twinkies, and after 2 or 3 mags of him using it as a straight pull, worked fine. He didn't remove jack shit from the action, it all just seeped out during firing.
>2016
>Not owning the night
My SR15 weighs less fully loaded + optic, light, IR laser, and suppressor than a loaded bare bones AK47. You can cry about manning up all you want. The AK47 is at a distinct tactical disadvantage even before shoddy construction comes into play.
>>29308717
>Stag Model 1
>Cugir WASR 10/63
Shit choices.
>>29312238
>If you think a test in which one rifle's receiver is filled with mud and the other is clean is somehow valid, you need to think it over a while.
That the AR's receiver doesn't get filled with mud is the entire point, the rifle is designed in a way so that there is significantly less ingress of dirt and debris into the operating mechanism which results in a weapon less prone to failure.
If you look at the operating mechanism of each rifle outside of their respective weapon systems then it's likely the long stroke piston would come out as more reliable when debris is introduced, however that is irrelevant to actual weapon performance.
The AR can effectively utilize the DI system despite its shortcomings because the tolerances it is built with it in mind, likewise the AK requires the long stroke system because it is not designed around those tolerances and requires a more robust gas system to function properly.
>>29312341
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqL0dtIeTT8
video related
>inb4 'hurrr they cleaned them'
looks like they literally just covered it in fucking oil and wiped off shit on the outside
>>29308727
U shoot my ar more
But the ak is more fun.
>>29308717
If I just want to have fun and shot a bunch of ammo up and generally have a good time, AK any day, if I want to target shoot (with some sort of accuracy besides killing cans), AR.
>>29312341
>Give me a minute for this, pretty sure I've seen a video of 25 year old AKs being dug up in Africa and fired
I'd love to see it. Every video I've ever seen has been them digging them up, moving onto a different scene showing them firing. I've never seen one with them digging one up, having a loaded magazine on-hand, and them firing it right out of the dirt.
>This is just semantics and you should kill yourself.
>I misused terms and was wrong so you should kill yourself
Don't blame me for your stupidity. And your point doesn't stand consider there have been multiple mud and dirt test showing ARs have mud packed onto their bolt carriers with the dust cover open, yet still working.
>how about the fact that I can use my AK as a fucking club and fuck all will happen to it.
I can do the same thing with my AR, especially ones with fixed stocks and even adjustable ones like the UBR.
>the insides of an AR will hang up without fail if ANY debris gets inside
Agreed to a certain extent. Good thing cleaning it out is literally popping a pin and holding it upside down. You know. Like taking off an AK's dust cover and holding it upside down.
>Vietnam proved this with the M16A1s and their shitty powder, and military trials proved this
How does using the wrong powder prove anything? Also, if you knew anything at all, you'd know that those military trials were literally rigged to make the AR fail. When Eugene Stoner heard how poorly the AR was doing, he went up to see what the problem was. The rifles had been sabotaged because the top brass didn't want to adopt the rifle. Once Stoner fixed the rifles, they functioned great. Citation will come in the next post.
(cont)
ARs fail in cold, pick up a C7 instead
>>29312425
>ARs fail in cold, pick up a C7 instead
>ARs fail in cold
>pick up a C7 instead
>instead of an AR
>C7 is an AR
>>29312424
>Testing of the AR-15 weapon system had met with contempt from the Ordnance Corps. In one test in the Arctic, weapons were malfunctioning at alarming rates. As soon as Gene Stoner heard, he was on the next plane to Fort Greeley, Alaska. He found parts misaligned, front sights removed (front sights held in with taper pins have no reason to ever be removed) and replaced with pieces of welding rod.
>With missing and damaged parts, there was no way the weapons would function properly and, with welding rod replacing the front sight, accuracy suffered. The arctic test was, in fact, rigged to make the AR-15 look inadequate. Gene Stoner repaired all the weapons; the test resumed and the weapons performed admirably.
>http://www.gundigest.com/article/the-ar-16m16-the-rifle-that-was-never-supposed-to-be
>An AK doesn't need to be cleaned unless you literally filled the fucker with sand or mud
Or you know, get a little bit of dirt in the chamber which stops the bolt from seating properly.
>>29312439
>I don't know the differences between a C7 and an AR
Drink bleach baka senpai
>>29312425
ARs did not fail in cold. I've had them in jungle environments, mountainous terrain, the desert, the swamp, the supreme cold, snow drenched - everywhere. I have never had a malfunction anywhere in the world - and I've been everywhere.
>>29312424
>Also, if you knew anything at all, you'd know that those military trials were literally rigged to make the AR fail. When Eugene Stoner heard how poorly the AR was doing, he went up to see what the problem was. The rifles had been sabotaged because the top brass didn't want to adopt the rifle.
I wasn't talking about that trial retard, I was talking about the more recent one where every other rifle shit all over it and we still kept the M16 platform.
>And your point doesn't stand consider there have been multiple mud and dirt test showing ARs have mud packed onto their bolt carriers with the dust cover open, yet still working.
I'd actually really like to see this, MAC threw a handful of dirt into the action and had to reset the trigger with every shot
>>29312370
>27 seconds in
>All it takes it a bit of oil and cleaning, and the weapon is fully operational
Did you even watch your own video?
>cuts from them pouring oil on it to them firing
Every fucking time.
>>29312459
>Or you know, get a little bit of dirt in the chamber which stops the bolt from seating properly.
that describes every gun in the world senpai
>>29312459
>Or you know, get a little bit of dirt in the chamber which stops the bolt from seating properly.
this will literally kill any conventional firearm
>>29312476
And you have over 300 confirmed kills?
>he doesn't know about the Alaskan state trooper cold weather test
Retard
>>29311643
>>29309261
so PTR91 is just the civilian g3 right?
There is no reason why an AR would fail any more than an AK or M1A or anything else (in Arctic conditions)
The original Arctic testing was rigged anyways. They did not want the AR to beat out the M14
>>29312477
>I'd actually really like to see this, MAC threw a handful of dirt into the action and had to reset the trigger with every shot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAneTFiz5WU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9APzYqwXckw
>>29311830
>>29312501
>There is no reason why an AR would fail any more than an AK or M1A or anything else (in Arctic conditions)
except the AR likes to run wet, and lube doesn't work well in the cold.
Finns use AK type because they can lube it with diesel or run it dry in extreme cold
>>29312475
They're AR patter rifles with CHF barrels and different furniture. You maple niggers are becoming posters worse than Australians
>>29312501
>There is no reason why an AR would fail any more than an AK or M1A or anything else (in Arctic conditions)
The problem the AR has in arctic conditions is its magazine release.
I'm this guy >>29312424 >>29312459, but if I new I was going to be in arctic conditions, I'd want a Galil over a M4. It's the one time I'd want an AK style gun over an AR style.
>>29312477
>where every other rifle shit all over it and we still kept the M16 platform.
You mean the SCAR testing with the XM8, HK416, and FN SCAR? The one with no AK present?
>>29311830
>>29312519
Nigger there's over 100 differences between the C7 and the AR. Actually kill yourself you're too dumb to live.
It shouldn't take too long considering all the burgers you eat in one hour. All aboard the SS Heart Atack, toot toot!
>>29312483
>>29312484
The design of the AK lets dirt and debris easily get into the chamber, which is one of the reason why it so often fails mud and dirt tests.
>>29312570
It lets it in easy, it lets it out easy.
Which is why you see videos of AKs being discovered in buried caches being fired after knocking em against a tree a few times.
>>29312477
>MAC threw a handful of dirt into the action and had to reset the trigger with every shot
If we're pulling out the MAC card, take a look at his ice video.
>>29312569
>atleast we can own an AR/C7
>>29312558
Not to mention the XM8, 416, and SCAR were all using brand new magazines while the M4 was using old as fuck, worn out USGI mags. Magazines were the most common point of failure with the M4.
>>29312587
Anyone who brings up the MAC mud "test" should maybe keep in mind that the Tavor, the gun that MAC won't stop sucking off, jams like a motherfucker when submerged in a hot pond.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a9lZO74YCE
So y'know, maybe a fucking youtube video isn't an accurate test of reliability?
>>29312577
>Which is why you see videos of AKs being discovered in buried caches being fired after knocking em against a tree a few times
We're literally having this conversation right now.
>>29312370
>>29312480
AR15
>easier reload
>replacing parts is easier
>for me ammo is more readily available and retard cheap since I can reload it
>I don't have to worry if certain parts will fit my specific gun
I still like AKs though.
>>29312605
MAC didn't do the mud test. Ian did.
Get it right, ya' retard.
>>29312569
>C7 and the AR.
You're confusing AR with M16A1. If I can drop a C7's bolt carrier group into an AR of any variety, then guess what, the C7 is still an AR pattern rifle.
>>29312505
>no mud actually gets into the action, and stays outside of the gun the entire time
nice job proving my point asswipe
>>29312605
or maybe MAC just has an addiction to israeli cock
>>29312613
>easier reload
What if AK had magwell + locking?
>>29312622
>take a C7 and take away everything but the bcg
Wow it''s almost like you set this whole thing up to make no sense at all
Dumb spic
>>29312490
Ahem.
http://www.gundigest.com/article/the-ar-16m16-the-rifle-that-was-never-supposed-to-be
>>29312623
What? Do you want them to hold the bolt open and shove mud into the chamber? Or open it up and fill the FCG with mud? Are you really that dumb? No rifle would survive that.
They literally packed mud onto the bolt carrier with the dust cover open and it still functioned.
>>29312620
Derp, you are correct. My bad. Same beard, different douche.
>>29312623
>nice job proving my point asswipe
The guns were completely submerged in mud. Debris could have seeped in through the trigger, through the gap between the upper and lower receiver, but the gun remained functional.
If you want him to fill the FCG with mud or dirt, then you're an idiot. No gun will operate smoothly under those conditions. Not even the AK.
>>29312640
If it has the same BCG as every other AR pattern rifle then it is functionally identical to any other AR patter rifle.
>>29312603
>moving goalposts does not apply at all
>>29312679
Maybe you should read the fucking thread instead of being a dumbass
I said that an AR will run fine, so long as nothing gets into the action. However, if ANYTHING gets into the trigger group or internals, the AR starts shitting itself pretty fucking quick. I also mentioned that this is unlikely to happen, but not outside the realm of possibility.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHwoZ6SS_pY
>>29312699
You're right, it's a red herring
>can't prove me wrong
>lol at least we can own them XD
You got served kid
>>29312629
Then you'd have a HK416 in 7.62x39 effectively.
>>29312718
The HK416 is a short stroke piston and uses a slightly modified AR-15 bolt carrier and a standard 7 lug rotating bolt. It has a lot more in common with an M4 than it does an AK of any sort.
>>29312710
Its not a red herring either sir
I wasnt even the guy you were arguing with
Just saying that whats the point of spouting all the virtues and debating points on weapons you will never ever own
>>29312608
not that anon, but why wouldnt an ar work after being buried for 20 years... It's not like aks are the only things made of magic metal that doesnt seize...
>>29312718
>He thinks the HK 416 uses rock in magazine retention
>>29312774
>reading comprehension
>>29312791
>>29312774
>rock in magazine comprehension
>reading magazine retention
>>29312760
far closer tolerances, closed receiver, star chamber and bolt has much more surface area to seize on than AK bolt
the real question is why are you burying your rifles for a decade or 2
>>29312800
>>29312791
>>29312774
>meme arrows
>>29312704
I'm typing this as I watch the video.
It only failed once he literally had the bolt carrier held back and filled the action with dirt which is in no way a realistic scenario. Not to mention, the failures he encountered can be be alleviated by simply pushing out the rear takedown pin, pivoting it open, and dumping the dirt out. That would take all but five seconds to do.
You say the AK will "work the dirt out" over time, but until it does you're stuck with a straight pull AK. Both guns can fix the problem you've posted simply by turning them upside down and shaking out the dirt (with the AR being opened and the AK having the dustcover removed). The gun works flawlessly after he shakes out the dirt. Unless your rear takedown pin is welded shut, it's a non-issue, and it doesn't fix all of the other problems that have been pointed out with the AK as far as reliability goes.
M&P and AR finest weapons in the world nuff said
>>29312808
Did you see the video? it was a cache. and i dont know... i'd think if you coated the bolt in motor oil and slapped it back in there it'd be ok
>>29312760
I'm the anon you replied to.
The reason I believe is because the gas tube and DI system isn't as robust as the longstroke piston of an AK. The gas tube might become structurally weak over time causing it to fail or filled with debris which is much more difficult to clear.
If the gas tube remained structurally sound and didn't fill with debris like mud, it would work in theory.
>>29309532
>safety prevents round from ejecting or chambering
>works better when frozen
>complaining that you cannot simply use your pointer or middle finger to flick off the safety
>>29309532
BHO works just as fast as chambering a new round and hearing a click.
>>29312199
>Protip: you can't
Only because I can't actually find any 5.45 anywhere.
>>29312840
This is the reply I was actually pondering. Thanks anon.
Kalashnikov (AKM, AK74, Galil, Valmet's)
C O N S
>not a sealed system
>allowing easy ingress of debris
>which can fuck up the FCG
>and maybe possibly prevent bolt carrier from moving forward
P R O S
>extremely robust design
>foolproof operation
>larger tolerances allowing easy egress of debris
Stoner (AR15, M4, C7/8, M16)
C O N S
>requires larger amounts of lubrication due to its friction-heavy design and tighter tolerances
>if debris gets inside the gun, it cannot exit as with an kalashnikov
>direct gas impingement makes it require (arguably) more maintanence and creates higher wear on parts (arguable)
>if shit gets frozen its gonna get sticky more so than other designs
P R O S
>the ingenious design and sealed system allowing it to withstand any environmental condition you could reasonably throw at it
>direct gas impingement and overall design of barrel and gas system begets incredible accuracy for what it is
>very modular and very easy to takedown
Garand (M1A, M1 Garand, Mini-14)
>essentially the worst features of both the AK and the AR
>not sealed system, but slightly more so than an AK
>but tighter tolerances do not allow exit of debris once caught up in the action or FCG
>as a result it does fairly shitty in poor conditions, but only does very well if you will be keeping it clean and take care.
Different strokes(pun) for different folks.
I didnt mention it but there is also Stoner system that HK-improved upon. And the G36 system and FN's system.
I have both, and any eventuality involving me putting on body armor/load bearing gear takes both into consideration.
I will be grabbing both on my person if I gotta do stuff because i will have my AR-15 configured with lights/optics/accessories as my primary, and a AKM with a donkey dick grip and a side folding stock for a secondary.
Ammo rig has four mags for AR/ two for AKM and the mags that are in both guns.
AR15 is great for many things, but AKM has benefits as well. Most people know what I am talking about here, and both complement each other nicely.
So the TL;DR is why does your plan not involve having multiple tools on you to select from depending on the situation?
>>29312885
Try gunbot.net my friend
>>29312933
this is like an 8th grade comparison.
>>29312983
It's was meant for you then
>>29309317
Hey, get a underfolding shooting side cheek weld attachment, you will thank me and make your shooting experience much much better
>>29308717
i like the ak better. its not as accurate, but its also not picky about ammo.
>>29312983
How so
Btw that "argument" is the equivalent of calling someone a retard or a poopyhead.
I owned both before joining the service, preferred the AK because it was more fun for me. The AR platform is simple and intuitive, but not a lot of fun to shoot in my opinion. It's a better warfighting rifle, simpler controls, lighter recoil impulse, tends to be more ergonomic for most people, etc. I prefer the AK however, because it feels like I'm actually shooting a rifle if that makes any sense. The AR is just point and putt putt putt without much movement at all, reloading is a simple boring movement.
With an AK, with every shot you feel that bolt slamming back in the receiver (7.62 versions that is, never fired a 5.45). Firing makes you really feel how much hurt you're putting downrange. Reloading quickly takes a bit of practice, but nothing is more satisfying than popping out an old mag with the new one, rocking it and and reaching under with your non-firing hand to rip the bolt back in one swift motion. It simply feels badass.
I never noticed any big difference in accuracy at common ranges (100-300m) or reliability of the systems themselves. However, I found AK mags tend to be more reliable simply because the rock-in makes them stay in there solid. It's user error, but sometimes you can forget to give a good slap to the bottom of an AR mag and not have it insert properly, causing failures to feed. Easily fixed with a little training though.
TL;DR I think ARs are better warfighting rifles but AKs are more fun to shoot.
>>29312238
>don't be a fanboy
Fuck you, faggot. You don't tell me what to do you liberal nigger commie. AR weapons systems are the best.
>>29313003
Neither is the AR?
Guys literally AK and AR are for two VERY DIFFERENT east v west mindsets.
Conscript army vs Army of riflemen
>>29312558
Retarded AK guys are the niggers of the gun world
>>29312811
>I lost
>>29309581
>lanes
>not shooting on public land or buddy's property
Public range pleb git out.
>>29313057
>army of rifleman
Literal fucking meme
A fucking MEME
>>29312840
The gas tube on an AR is covered by the handguard, the only two points where debris could get in would be the port in the barrel or the port in the reciever, the first of which is unlikely, the second cannot happen if the bolt is forward. For you to compromise he integrity of the gas tube you would have to break the handguard first.
>>29313059
No that's ARfags
>>29312640
Says the chinkadian.
>>29313101
>you
>no u
>no YOU
AR and AK faggots are equally retarded niggers
>>29312933
>Stoner system that HK-improved upon. And the G36 system and FN's system.
The G36, SCAR, and HK416 all use gas systems derived from the AR-18 which is a Stoner design, the only significant feature that thinks them and the AR-15/10 design wise is the bolt itself.
>>29312933
These arguments sound like the clipnotes to a History Channel segment about guns.
>>29309081
The mountain jews did it, and incidentally it's widely regarded as the best rifle on the (non-clapistanian) market.
>>29308767
Hes a big guy
>>29313100
not him but we were discussing long term storage. a video was posted of an ak being unearthed after 20 years and firing after probably 10 minutes of cleaning. The ars gas piston would most likely degrade to the point of a problem.
>>29308717
I like AKs better but my favorite is an AR10
You guys wanna get gay later?
>>29313188
>ar10 vs vepr
Go!
>>29313169
>History Channel segment about guns
Remember the long gone days when that would have been a positive statement?
>>29313160
I think the whole world of modern rifles boils down to
AK based
Garand based
AR15 based
AR18 based
>>29313197
Both, at the same time.
>>29313100
AR gas tubes are made from stainless steel. While they're extremely resistant to the elements, I have would have little faith in their integrity after being buried for years. Unless they were buried in the desert.
If they're buried in the ground, water could still leak into the barrel and by extension the gas tube, carrying with it dirt and debris. Again, if it's buried in the desert, you should be safe.
Seriously, I mean u guys wanna meet up and train? Get at me on kik
>>29308717
Personally, I find my AK more fun to shoot. I can't really give you a solid reason why. The AR is just more serious, if it makes any sense. Not saying its bad or anything. I just don't screw around with it. However I recently picked up an AK74, and am looking forward to taking it to the range now that I've found ammunition for it.
>>29313202
Y-yeah, I do.
I remember watching a show recently that was rating guns, and a G36K got a 2-10 for stopping power, but a M4 got something like an 8/10.
I guess that 2" of barrel makes all the difference.
We can talk 5R rifling.
>>29313219
>I have would have little faith in their integrity after being buried for years.
Why is that? It's not like they just magically degrade over time, they have to have some significant force acting on them for that to occur, being buried in relatively shallow dirt is hardly the most strenuous thing that you could put and AK or M4 even when compared to actually firing them. And while ingress of debris through the barrel is certainly possible, it is something tthat can easily be fixed by cleaning out the gas tube and block.
>>29311471
Its funny you should mention this, because I was the exact opposite. I owned an AR first, and have been slowly drifting towards AKs. I like the AR, but everyone has them and I see them everywhere.
>>29313233
I getcha. It's like driving a sports car on the autobahn vs. taking a pickup truck off-roading.
>>29313297
you're telling me metal buried for 20 years isnt going to degrade.
>>29313328
and everyone shits on the sports car for getting stuck in mud, or the on truck for too much tire noise on the highway
>>29313204
Famas is delayed blowback. Also I don't think AUG can be counted as an AR18 derivative.
>>29313348
Well said.
>>29313297
>It's not like they just magically degrade over time
No, but metal that is buried in the earth certainly does.
>cleaning out the gas tube and block
Are you serious? It's not like the gas tube and gas block pop off for cleaning. If the gas tube has been filled with debris, you don't clean it out. You replace it.
>>29313350
>Also I don't think AUG can be counted as an AR18 derivative.
Why not? It uses the same short stroke piston action only in a bullpup package.
>>29313383
Because simply because it's a short stroke piston doesn't mean it's a derivative, else AR18 would be a stg44 derivative.
This dude at work is always trying to sell his Daniel defense AR that he paid like $2200+ for.
>tfw I offer $1100
>>29313330
It doesn't as much as you think, especially not stainless steel. When something is buried it is relitively sealed off from the elements and changes in evrionmental conditions. The only real stress placed on the rifle is going to be the pressure from the material on top of it which obviously varies depending on the environment and depth of burial, but if we're going by the examples from the thread earlier then we're looking at pressures insignificant compared to what the critical working components are designed to deal with when firing.
The real issue is rust which applies to both rifles, but is mitigated with chrome lining and proper finishing.
>>29313375
>It's not like the gas tube and gas block pop off for cleaning. If the gas tube has been filled with debris, you don't clean it out.
You have to remove it to replace it you can remove it for cleaning, it requires tools obviously which is a shortcoming of the design, but the chance of debris getting in the block is minimal in the first place.
>>29308717
ak, but only because the tapco trigger is so fucking light it makes bumpfire incredibly easy
>>29313400
It is a short stroke gas piston system with dual recoil springs and guide rods as well as the classic stoner 7 lug rotating bolt. It's an AR-18 derivative.
>>29313383
Of course it cannot, because that would make AR18 the derivative of SKS or VZ 58
>>29313411
What's wrong with it? I'm currently considering a DD rifle for 2000€
>>29313375
>>29313451
You never have to clean the tube or block on an AR15. The gases force the debris into the internal piston. The bolt itself is the piston and 99% of the debris is captured there, primarily on the bolt tail behind the gas rings.
That's why the it shits were it eats statement is a myth. The AR15 isn't even a true DI setup.
>>29313503
Nothing, that's what's so funny.
>>29313517
Read the entire conversation tree. We're talking about ARs being buried for 20 years and debris seeping in over time and filling the gas tube.
>>29313536
My bad. :P
>>29313517
Ar15 is a DI rifle though. The gas inpinges directly on the bolt carrier, and even if it's ejected out of the rifle that doesn't change the fact.
>>29313869
>is a DI rifle though
It's like the relationship between arachnids and spiders.
Spiders are by and large very far from a perfect example of an arachnid, but they are also the most numerous and most people think of this first when they think of arachnids.
AR15 type weapons are not a good example of perfect DI, and are actually very different from the core tenets of DI, but all in good ways. But ARs are by and large the most numerous rifles in this category so there you have people over-correlating it.
The technical name is something like"stoner fluid piston" or something like that.
>In U.S. Patent 2,951,424, Stoner states that the system is not a conventional impinging gas system: ″This invention is a true expanding gas system instead of the conventional impinging gas system.″
>>29313869
No it doesn't. It impinges on a gas key which in turn forces gas into the internal piston. Just as the patent describes.
As far as I'm aware it's a one off snowflake design.
>>29308717
Gentlemen.. BEHOLD!
>>29311893
>muh ak47 is innaccurate meme
https://youtu.be/wPcdndVpfaA?t=54
>>29314299
>heavy 1930s German cartridge
>rock in magazines that don't fit well into mag pouches nor facilitate rapid reloading
>No bolt hold open or release
>non ambi charging handle despite being forced to use it due to the shortcomings previously mentioned
mfw
>>29314299
All the attempts to combine the AR and AK designs have resulted in rifles that have the worst features of both without the respective design's strong suits.
If you want an AK, get AK. If you want AR, get AR. If you want both, get one of both, not a halfassed bastard child.
I prefer my AR. I selected all the parts, did heavy research, spent the cash, and built her. She's my little bundle of joy and pride of my firearm collection.
My AK? Ginger bastard of a stepson that feels dumped onto me by a troglodytic ex-wife who used me for a green card when I got shitfaced in vegas. I'll take it out when I think it feels neglected and child services might get called.
>>29314418
Can we have a pic of your pride and joy?
>>29314418
Cmon I have shoop booted ready for meme crafting
>>29312840
Gas tube is stainless steel nothing will happen with it. Aluminum receiver will corrode.
>>29311507
If an AK can function after being frozen then I'd say it deserve to be known for how durable it is. Enjoy that fixed magazine. The AK is more refined for the harshest conditions. The AR is not.
>>29314384
I agree with this guy. While I think the 'Mutant' is probably the best combination of the two, for fuck's sake it will never be like the originals.
A well-made AK can have decent accuracy with a proficient shooter, but a 7.62 AK will never match the AR's range, and a 5.45 AK will never have the exact same accuracy.
Meanwhile the key detractor of the AK's potential accuracy is at its heart what makes it so legendary. That violent long-stroke piston operation is something the AR can't do while retaining its advantages.
>>29314862
Are you referring to MAC's cold weather test? The one where he eventually worked the AR's magazine release loose and it functioned again?
Just because the AK excels in one weather condition that the AR does not (even then it's arguable consider MAC got the rifle to work again, not to mention the C7 Canada uses which was designed with cold weather in mind), doesn't mean it's more reliable overall.
>>29314957
No I am referencing the Russians using the AKs during winter. Never been to Russia but if there is anything I know for certain about Russia is the terrible winter it experiences.
>>29314523
>>29314666
She is not a slut.
>>29308717
I like my AK more. The appeal is with the utter simplicity and the crudeness of the design.
Besides, everyone at my range has a cookie cutter AR. It's really nice shooting steel at 300 yards with my AK, while they spew their fudd lore at me about how my rifle is inaccurate.
>MFW I tell them nothing but, "I disagree," and continue blasting.
>>29308717
both.
it would depend on what type of mission to determine which to choose.
>>29315187
Sounds like my local range. I've heard the following about my AK:
"We don't allow full auto here" (from an RO)
"Better you have that thing than those guys in over there" (I assume he meant terrorists?)
And, my personal favorite, "he looks like he's having way more fun" from the bored girlfriend of a guy trying to zero his AR after watching me mag dump.
I have several examples of both platforms and love both designs, but for me...AR all day long, better ergos, feel, lighter... just a better designed gun in just about all aspects
>but muh reliability
also if your not extra chromosome enriched the AR is plenty reliable and good for the task
>>29315257
Every single week I go it's like this too. I love it.
It's a fudd magnet though. Everyone and their fucking brother feels the need to come up to me to express their negative opinions on my rifle.
>Go shoot your POS at 25 yards like the rest of the clowns here bro.
>>29315326
>>Go shoot your POS at 25 yards like the rest of the clowns here bro.
Get a bigger AK chambered for a bigger cartridge and start putting those stupid fucks to shame, breh. Pit their boring Rem700 against a .308 Vepr and see who does better.
>>29315257
Perfect euphimism for their sex life
>>29315347
I kek'd
>>29314270
The 'internal piston' is just a chamber in the BCG. Stoner just made up fancy words to justify a patent, but it still is a direct inpingement rifle by definition.
>>29313183
for you
>>29309581
Must suck to live in a cardboard home (lennar) or apartment near niggers.
Become a real american and buy an acre and shot on that bitch. You don't need that new car save the 50k and buy and acre. Fuck.
>>29315660
Except it isn't for the reasons already presented.
He could have "made up" whatever words he wanted to describe it. No other system uses an integrated piston on the rear of the bolt itself.
>>29315770
So the gas inpinges directly onto the bolt. It's direct inpingement.
What was your point again?
>>29315843
The point is it's piston operated and not DI.
>>29315926
Which is incorrect. But thanks for playing!
>>29315941
If you say so. I'm sure you know better than the guy who designed the system.
AR-10 best batul raifu
AK best salt raifu
>>29315944
Stoner himself said it wasn't a true DI system and hated that people called it as such.
AR all day, but I love magpulling my shit up, trying out new stocks/grips for aesthetics, easily mounting new scopes and red dots. I'm not even a tactical fag, I prefer iron sights. It's just fun dressing up my AR's. Plus, 14.5 pinned. 16, 20, etc. So many options.
