Well boys, I'm pretty sure I found the gun I want to carry everyday when I can buy a handgun in 3 months.
>pic related
I'm pretty sure .380 will be enough for self-defense. Probably going to roll with Federal 90gr Hydra-Shok JHP.
This weapon being as small as it is, I'll be able to carry it every single day comfortably regardless of attire. Retails at only $250, it's even small enough to pocket carry without printing if you're into that.
>>29273425
Get the LC9 so you don't a faggot.
>>29273446
But the LC9 nearly twice as big and it's twice the price.
>>29273425
I have a custom LCP (pic related) its awesome and I love it.
I opted for this one vs your pic, yea that one has raised sights (con for me) and allegedly a nicer trigger (stock trigger is fine for up close).
IMO if you cannot shoot well with the stock trigger and sights you need to practice with them. I am sure that enhanced version is better at the range but really the stock sights and trigger works fine.
I love my LCP, I pocket carry it in a galco holster and its a blast at the range, literally. The thing has more punch than my Glock 21 or 92FS what with its light weight.
I agree that 9mm Browning (.380) should be sufficient for a SD round.
>>29273539
forgot pic
![ruger2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FO0xR6z.jpg "ruger2[1].jpg")
>>29273498
Do whatever you want, but if you get the .380 maybe carry an extra mag or something. it pretty much all comes down to where you hit them.
But any time you're pulling it out, if you're not a retard, you're going to be a ways a way from them, not when they're holding a boxcutter to your neck, so you want more range and a bigger gun unless you have bitch hands and the lcp fits well.
>I cant use it because it's way the fuck too small
>>29273425
If it will load, Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator (not to be confused with ripfaggot rounds) actually perform at FBI specs and penetrates above other .380's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczfeWK9lHw
>if the pistol hates hallowpoint then it might not cycle these properly but most do without fail to chamber
>>29273539
>>29273582
Neat. I think I'll be opt'ing for the Custom model just because of steel guide rod, improved trigger and sights. I just want something I can carry everyday regardless of what the weather is. I'd like a handgun that's so comfortable I'll forget it's even there.
I might roll with a +1 magazine though to give me a bit more grip.
>>29273624
Yeah I'll carry 2 extra mags. I'll chamber a round and then the magazines hold 6 so I'll have a total of 19 rounds. I'm aware you need to hit center mass. At the end of the day most self-defense situations are within 5-8 feet. I have normal sized hands but I prefer something that doesn't intrude with me feeling comfortable whatsoever. Believe it or not prior to looking at the LCP I was looking at the Glock 43. But the LCP seemed so seducing compared to the fact that it's only $250 for a quality self-defense EDC handgun. Literally the only downside I could think of was .380acp, then I realized there's no such thing as a perfect gun anyways.
>>29273664
Will look into it, thanks.
>>29273446
>Get the LC9 so you don't a faggot.
First rule of gunfighting: Bring a gun. A pocket .380 will always be on you, even on the days you don't feel like jamming a holster into your waistband.
>>29273425
Consider the Kahr CW380, too.
It's just as small as the Ruger, but the slide actually locks back when the mag is empty.
>>29273706
I don't think I could into Kahr for some reason.
>>29273706
>>29273717
Taurus TCP and BG380 lock back, too, but they're both questionable guns.
>>29273717
Why not?
>>29273749
I guess I'm more interested in Ruger and Glock because of proven track record.
>>29273736
That's right; those two options aren't that great.
The ranking for pocket carry is as follows.
>SIG P238
>Kahr P380
>Kahr CW380
>Ruger LCP
>S&W Bodyguard
>Kel-Tec P3AT
>Taurus TCP
>Everything Else
>>29273674
.380 will still end their fucking day though m8.
hit them in the chest and they're done and not going anywhere quick.
>>29273680
I haven't had one of those days yet, but if I do I've got a P238 that'll fit nicely.
>>29273792
True that friend.
>>29273446
>>29273498
Do NOT get an LC9. Get an LC9S, and preferably the Pro. Worlds better.
That being said, .380 will serve you well, and you should watch this video too: https://youtu.be/GNtPHYwcDts
Also, LCP is a boring range gun. Get something in .22 to practice some fundamentals and save yourself from selling it for a range toy.
>>29273766
The CW380 has far more in common with a Glock product than the Ruger LCP.
Ruger ripped off the Kel-Tec P3AT to make the LCP.
Kahr borrowed from Glock to make the P380 and CW380 because Glock had yet to make a pistol that small with their design.
>>29273774
I'd put the LCP and P3AT at the same tier, and the BG380 and TCP together as well.
>>29273425
Just make sure you get the custom, not the standard one unless you're cool with a shit tier trigger.
![PT_1-copy-300x200[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VuyGyUC.jpg "PT_1-copy-300x200[1].jpg")
>>29273792
speaking of little boolets, my girlfriend carries a taurus pt-25 because it's tiny and a little DA/SA pistol, I made her realize carrying your gun anywhere that's not strapped to your body is retarded so tiny guns it is.
>I guarantee anyone with a knife who only wants your wallet is going to stop if you pull out your pimp sized gun
>>29273803
Already watched that video prior to making this thread, but thanks. I'm into the LCP for everyday carry SHTF handgun, nothing more. It's small, comfortable, and made by an established manufacturer with half-decent proven track record, all for $250.
>>29273821
I will. Improvements on the custom model are the trigger, sights, and steel guide rod. I found the Custom model on gunbroker to only be $20 more than the base model.
you sound like me when I bought my first gun/carry gun OP. bought the LCP, few months later LC9S, couple months later, G19, now I want a big ass wheel gun. I figure I'll use the lcp/lc9s when I have to wear a suit or something.
>>29273838
I guess I'd rather start with something that's carry-able every single day. If I'm not satisfied afterwards, work my way up.
>>29273803
I didn't like that video.
My friend is a police officer and he has seen, personally on multiple occasions, a thick leather jacket slowing a .380 down enough to not penetrate the rib cage and causing a superficial wound.
Use FMJ
>>29273828
That thing's bigger and heavier than some .380s.
>>29273838
I went the other way. I bought a Sig P225 as my first gun, then a J-frame, then a Seecamp, and then a TCP when I realized that a handmade $500 gun was worse than a Taurus.
![taurus%20view%203.jpg_thumbnail0[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/g7X5tDb.jpg "taurus%20view%203.jpg_thumbnail0[1].jpg")
>>29273883
I couldn't find the model, but it's an older one.
It's smaller than the LCP by a bit.
>>29273869
I'm watching that video more and more.
This guy is a fucking salesman armchair warrior at its truest.
Flesh is not ballistics gelatin.
Ask any bow hunter, you can't get an accurate result about a round's performance from gelatin.
>>29273945
Well pick a .380 that penetrates deeper.
>there isn't one
I just handed you the only real test video of the ammo. He's reviewed over 90 ammo variants/types and he does a 300 dollar gel test on each of them.
>>29273869
Why do you think he tested for 12-18 inches? It's designed to consider resistances from clothing.
He tested with FMJ's as well.
The Lehigh Defense rounds are closer towards round-nose than traditional jhp's and performed very well. I use Ruger ARX for my .380, personally.
>>29273945
>Literally tons of video's showing direct results all with one of the shortest barrels possible to show the least effective it could be - meaning longer barrel will perform at LEAST that well. It's direct evidence.
>Still refutes it
You sound like a fudd.
>>29273945
When I hear someone talking about "overpenetration" I almost stop listening to anything they're saying about.. anything.
The fact of the matter is you want a powerful round because you want to be able to hit the bad guy, single round performance means jack shit and if you're buying a bullet because it's "more effective" you're falling into the capitalist fuddlore so to speak. You want a fmj with a lot of powder behind it because when it comes down to it, you're not going to be saved by a mushrooming bullet, you need to be able to hit them where you're aiming, and be able to stretch the effective range of your weapon as much as possible.
If you're using a round with a lot of drag and it slows down, hits his jacket and hits his ribs, and makes him sting, he's going to be mad. You hit him with a powerful heavy fmj and it "overpenetrates" that's a good thing, because now his lung is filling with blood.
Fucking fudds man.
For the folks who say a .380 will just cause your attacker to beat you to death faster, keep in mind the .32ACP was the standard police caliber in Europe from the 1900s through WW2. It's not like you're carrying an airsoft gun.
>>29273945
>bow hunter
And that's where what you said lost all credibility.
>>29274037
>arrow will not penetrate ballistics gel
>will run through an animal
>bullet mushrooms in ballistics gel
>doesn't in flesh and passes right the fuck through
It's not even that uncommon.
>>29273789
>those tiny hands
holy shit
>>29274060
>comparing bows and ammo cartridges
>BOWS
>AND FUCKING
>AMMO CARTRIDGES
![14163631-mmmain[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/OwzByuy.jpg "14163631-mmmain[1].jpg")
>>29274080
I'm not, I'm saying it's similar.
fuck it.
it's hopeless, have fun with your st00pid bullet, anon.
>>29273774
>sig 238
>relying on a 1911 design for self defense
hopefully tyrone gives you some peanut butter to go with that jam
Been considering a glock 26 for my first handgun / c&c.
Size is negligible, but I like the idea of interchangeable mags.
Anyone have a verdict on LC9 v G26?
>>29274107
>bullet
Also, I'm not the guy comparing a bunch of different JHP .380's. Like OP said, Federal will be good enough.
>>29274023
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/4/16/throwback-thursday-the-fbi-ammo-tests/
>The maximum depth of penetration used in the calculation was 18", because a bullet that penetrated any further than that would be presumed to have exited the target.
I'll just let you sit there and feel retarded about that.
>>29273425
I've shot one OP. Not a fan because it's too small and jumps in my hand every shot.
I've got big hands though.
>>29274125
Apples and oranges, two totally different classes. Subcompact 9mm vs. Pocket .380
>>29274132
Yeah, I heard it's difficult to master, but I'm willing to learn. I got pretty average sized hands, leaning slightly towards the smaller end.
>>29273821
trigger is fine
OP i have a LCP, its a great ccw but has some bad attributes. thinking of changing to a J frame 38, highly recommend you look at it too
Bought a Ruger LCP on Sunday. Took it to the range today. It's a snappy little fucker. With practice it should be good and I had solid groups at 10 yards but the recoil was significant and there's no way to get a full hand on the firearm.
.380 is fine
that being said, go with what feels best
I was pretty sure I was gonna get a bersa thunder, but when I handled one (granted, it was a .22 instead of .380), it just wasn't there
I handled an lcp and liked it, but ended up feeling more at home with pic related, s&w bodyguard
with a gun that small, its hard to tell what you'll actually like until you hold them
>>29274125
After owning both, I'd have to say the LC9S. Trigger is just too good, and the price combine to give it the reccomendation.
Not that the 26 is bad by any means, I'd just say you're going to be better served with the LC9S IMO. Make sure to get the Pro, it removes the safety.
>>29274127
I'm simply saying that with a .380, considering I have heard stories of a guy getting magdumped and surviving because they used JHP .380s that were slowed down enough to mushroom on the bastard's clothes, use FMJ.
This doesn't apply to a more powerful round, because they're a different round.
>>29274166
Agreed. Bodyguard is comfy but I couldn't find any models with both safety and laser removed.
Ultimately went with a Walther PK380, and fucking love it despite the hate it gets from a lot of individuals. Bodyguard was definitely comfy though.
>>29274161
I may look into the J frame, but as of right now, I'm not really wanting to spend anymore than $400 for my first CCW. Believe it or not I was looking at revolvers for carry, Ruger SP101 to be specific.
>>29274165
Yeah, snappy because size. I'll definitely practice with it, I go to the range on average twice a month lately. I don't mind getting a full 5 fingers on the thing, most situations will go down in less than 10 feet.
>>29274166
I just like the fact that it's super concealable and can be carried everyday, pocket or holster. I'll be sure to hold one in my hands at the shop before purchasing one anywhere.
>>29274187
>my cousin said that this happened
>i know a guy that said he saw this thing
>i don't have any actual statistics to prove my point
Want to just post some sources here and stop being retarded? Thanks.
>>29274228
BTFO
T
F
O
O
O
O
>>29274143
That's what I'm curious about.
The Ruger's about 1/3" wider, 1/3" higher, and 2/5" longer.
What makes it a pocket gun? The single stack?
>>29274210
>may look into the J frame, but as of right now, I'm not really wanting to spend anymore than $400 for my first CCW.
Like-new used J-frames are $300-350 all day long.
>>29274239
The fact that the LCP is a .380 (shorter 9mm) is one factor, also the fact that it only holds 6 rounds in the magazine. And yes, also the fact it's a single stack. All these factors add up and make a more comfortable gun overall.
>>29274234
>this shit is so common that the police wanted ruger to make the LC9 for ccw
>>29274242
Can you suggest a specific model please? Sorry, I'm a retard when it comes to revolvers, let alone S&W's lineup of them.
>>29274130
you're the retarded one anon. penetration is the #1 attribute you need in a bullet. everything else is just icing on the cake. if you cant reliably penetrate to hit vitals why are you even using a gun
>>29274130
The other dude is dumb for suggesting fmj for the most popular chamberings, but if you mean to say anything over 18" is useless, you're an idiot.
> what is bone
> what is heavy clothing
>>29274166
also, with everyone saying .380 isn't reliable or effective enough, some of it isn't
ammo choice is much more important in .380 than more powerful calibers
here's a good starting point
http://shootingthebull.net/blog/final-results-of-the-380-acp-ammo-quest/
that test plus others convinced me to carry speer gold dots
>>29274275
It depends on what you want. The three basic S&W's are:
637: Exposed hammer SA/DA
638: Hooded hammer SA/DA
642: Enclosed hammer DAO
I have a 638 because it gives me the option of a hammer but won't snag.
Smith and Ruger also both make freaky polymer J-frame revolvers, but I don't know much about those. Ruger supposedly has a great DAO trigger.
>>29274340
Appreciate that, I'll look into it.
>>29274210
brand new j frames are only $400 and you can get used ones for $2-300, its in your price range
ill explain the detractions of a 380 vs a j frame
lcp 380:
-long flexible plastic trigger with long reset
-mag release too easy to actuate and mag ends up popping out sometimes if you pocket carry
-380 is ballistically inferior to 38spcl
>>29274355
Yeah >>29274242 pointed that out. I'll look into it, but revolvers vs. semi-auto's would be a whole nother fucking thread so I'm not even going to bother discussing that. I'll look into it though, 637 Airweight looks real nice.
>>29274382
If you're considering an LCP for the size/weight, a J-frame isn't a direct competitor. It's a lot larger and heavier.
>>29274275
>>29274275
you want a s&w 642 or 442 (same gun, one is silver alloy finish the other is black finish). they are a double action only
also the s&w 638, it has a shrouded hammer that has a little tab, which lets you cock it for single action use or you can shoot in double action. its a little more versatile
>>29274166
I rented out the Ruger LC9 as well as the Sig P238 (and P938, though that's not .380) the other day.
You really do need to shoot these guns and hold them to get any kind of idea what you want. Its pretty interesting how you can read tons of reviews on a gun, but when you go to use it yourself it just feels all wrong.
The LC9 was a decent feeling gun with good controls. Didn't feel great, but okay. Some different grips would feel better, because the stock ones the rent gun had were pretty iffy and the bite on them felt uncomfortable to me.
The gun stove piped several times, but I blame that on it being a rent gun or maybe the ammo it was using wasn't powerful enough. I know I was holding it properly at least.
The P238 was a really nice gun to use. It felt good in the hand, especially because they had aftermarket rubber grips on it that just sunk into the contour of your hand perfectly. Controls were okay, but the slide stop/release was a bit hard for be to get to. Putting it on safe was harder than putting it off safe. Shot like a dream, though.
938: Not 380, sure, but I'll talk about it just because a lot of people considering the 238 look at the 938. This gun was something I was considering because its only slightly longer than the 238 and uses 9mm. I thought maybe I'd have a bigger round and save money having to get 380. Boy were the reviews about that firearm correct. Snappy little fucker through and through. That small of a gun with a 9mm round is just really snappy on the recoil. Its harsh grip texture bit into my hand after the 50 rent rounds were done. My right hand was already red from the grips. If you did want a 938 and planned to use it at the range, aftermarket grips or gloves would pretty much be required, unless you have calloused hands. I don't, however. Controls on the 938 were the same as the 238, so okay, but still have an issue with reaching the slide catch/release.
Overall, I think I'm leaning at the 238. Fun, good shooter.
>>29274420
ruger lcp weighs about 10 oz, j frame weighs about 15oz. j frame is a tad larger and wider, but still plenty small for pocket carry
>>29273425
PPK nostalgia
>>29274325
I'm not saying over 18" is useless, but you want a round that tumbles or remains in the threat as a preference over a round that continues well past your target. Lots of studies done on this. And he conducted all his tests through heavy clothing.
>>29274294
You've got some weird thing where you keep going back to your first point that was disproven as if it is now more relevant. The argument isn't that penetration is or isn't a key attribute. It's that we've already seen the minimum, and the only good backstop for your round after you fire is the bad guy. Is it the most important thing to worry about? No. But if you have the option of hitting that goal as well as your minimums, fucking do it. Every bullet you fire will have your name on it.
>>29274458
The cylinder bulge sucks for pocket carry. I used to edc pocket carry and switched to a belly band/smart carry knockoff, which is all around better for a variety of reasons.
>>29274458
That's 150% as heavy as the LCP. And I don't know what kind of pockets you have but a J-frame won't fit in any of mine other than a coat. I carry my 638 in an IWB holster.
>no LCR
why even live?
>>29274515
Post links to said studies.
Penetration is objectively more important than tumbling, as far as reliably incapacitating threats. Tumbling and yawing is pointless if it occurs before reaching the target, and unless it's hitting something vital to begin with (see: shot placement), the tissue damage it does is irrelevant to stopping a threat quickly. It doesn't matter if they die later on of blood loss after they kill you and rape your dog.
>>29274515
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/4/16/throwback-thursday-the-fbi-ammo-tests/
I bought an LC9S 3 weeks ago. I broke it the first time I broke it down. It had to go back to Ruger. They fixed it up and I've put 300 rounds through it so far with 2 malfunctions but I'm using bottom of the barrel ammo. Overall, I like it. Take extra care when putting the guide rod back in. I think I crammed it in too low and bent the shit out of it. Taken it down 3 times since I got it back without a problem. But man when I fucked it up, I really fucked it up. The slide was stuck so hard that if I had dipped that fucker in epoxy it couldn't have been more stuck.
>>29273425
piece of shit lc9. get the sr9c at least
>>29274340
Is that a Sig 938 or a 238 in that pic?
>>29273582
>those horrid instructions and warning
>>29273792
>hit them in the chest and they're done and not going anywhere quick
This is the worst and most dangerous misconception that exists for self defense.
People have taken .45ACP, .44 Magnum, been shot in the heart, any combination, and were still able to retaliate and kill in return.
Carrying a gun gives you a step up, a fighting chance, and nothing more. No gunfight is for sure going to be ended instantaneously except where a person is by chance hit in the spine or the brain.
>>29274333
Checked
Also checked the website. Excellent experiments, very useful information to have. Thanks for posting, anon, this will be very useful to me.
>>29274770
>unironically recommending the SR9 series
In 10-20 years, the SR9 series will be viewed how the P85/P89 are now.
>>29274333
How do you read that report and conclude GDHP are the best choice?
Precision One XTP > Any other XTP > Anything else
What about a PPK?
>>29274809
This is the worst and most dangerous misconception, your battle plan should not involve you getting shot.
You're not supposed to get shot.
idiot.
>>29274780
238
>>29274932
a shot through the heart still gives you a good 15-30 seconsd of time to shoot back with a gun dude
>>29274809
Bullshit.
You show me an instance of someone taking a round to the heart and rolling through that shit. Rapid loss of blood pressure causes unconsciousness within a few seconds. A shot to the brain unless its to the brain stem is far more survivable than a shot to the heart.
Pic related.
>>29274958
>15-30 seconds
More like 3.
>>29274932
Just fucking google shot in heart survive you fucking idiot. I ain't showing you shit that a google search shows you instantly on your own.
>>29274961
That was not a high velocity impact. The bullet spin and speed cause additional damage hard to recover from. Usually people survive headshots if the bullet only harmed one hemisphere or specific sections of the brain (ex front lobe).
Though really this argument is moot. 380 is good enough for self defense.
>>29274961
Phineas Gage severed his pre-frontal cortex if I'm not mistaken. I do believe that a bullet through other parts of the brain (Not sure exactly which ones, someone help me out) will resolve in a near-instant death, even if the brain stem is still intact.
>>29273796
>P238
Yeah, this is the only .380 worth buying imo. Though, it is more expensive than most people like.
>>29275031
I sold mine because it was just big and heavy enough to be awkward for pocket carry in clothes that actually fit. Went to the next size down in polymer .380s.
>>29274997
>I do believe that a bullet through other parts of the brain (Not sure exactly which ones, someone help me out) will resolve in a near-instant death, even if the brain stem is still intact.
If you hit the part of the brain that controls autonomic motor functions then it will cause almost instant death since the heart will stop pumping resulting in a sudden loss of blood pressure and unconsciousness.
Or you could just shoot them in the heart and get the same effect.
>>29275051
>Or you could just shoot them in the heart and get the same effect.
You should probably google before showing how big a fool you are. Pages and pages of people survived heart shots, newfriend.
i carry one everyday. at first i was apprehensive buying a ruger because i thought they were crappy fudd guns. i went to my lgs intending to buy a bodyguard but my dude said that he stopped selling them because of how many problems people were having that bought it. fair enough, the ruger was the same price then ($300) so i gave the ruger a shot even though i really didnt want to buy it.
i had a cc permit already but didnt carry because im an idiot and just got it so i didnt have to wait when i bought guns. a guy i work with showed up to the office on the weekend with a gun and pointed it at me, and i guess that had awaken something in me that yea, i need to be ready.
anyways, so i never had any issues with it unless i limp wristed it. the first few mags i was anticipating recoil and limp wristing and it made me think the gun was fucked up. once i got used to it, the thing was a fucking tack driver at 20 feet. i topped it off and drew, mag dumped at 20 feet and all 7 rounds landed in the silhouette. ive not since had any issues with shitty white box or the critical defense that i carry. id like to justify buying a $600 sig, but the DA trigger really isnt that bad and for $300 its a fucking steal. whenever im wearing jeans or slacks for work i use this pocket holster, if im wearing shorts and a shirt i carry it iwb in some crappy uncle mikes holster. either way i dont even notice im carrying until i drop trou to take a dump and have to put it on top of the tp holder. this gun is the epitome of a pocket pistol that is super reliable and light.
tl;dr
>light
>accurate
>reliable
just do it OP
>>29275071
And several times as many results for people surviving shots to the brain.
But by all means aim for the smaller fucking target that has less chance of incapacitation. Its not like soldiers and police are trained to aim center mass for a reason.
I mean fuck a headshot does 2X damage in Call of Duty right?
>>29273838
Hey you finally got a glock!
I remember telling you to get bigger cartridges a few months ago.
What's next?
>>29275071
>surviving headshots
Just because they survived doesn't mean they're going to be shooting back.
Or feeding themselves for that matter.
>>29273425
Yeah, this gun is the best carry gun out there. It's pretty small and 380 and 9mm aren't much different so you can feel confident you're carrying enough fire power against a potential attacker.
I can put my lcp in my pocket and it doesn't print and it's small enough for summer clothes without being bulky. I have several handguns but I only carry the lcp.
>>29275031
I really don't have much experience carrying the thing (maybe twice in the past year?) since I usually carry a compact 9, but I won't deny it's a fun challenge gun, trying to stretch it out over fullsize gun ranges.
>>29275139
Ruger ar556 then 10mm or wheel gun
>>29275088
is that talon grips?
>>29275214
>380 and 9 aren't that different
>>29275214
>.380 and 9mm are similar
>>29275365
>>29275417
But guys. They look so similar.
>they're definitely the same
>>29275308
yes. cheap on amazon
>>29275287
Get a S&W .357.
Fun shootings. Take it to the range and you'll want to use it as your home defense gun I guarantee it.
>>29273425
