I, personally, carry 3 mags (45rds) of Liberty Civil Defense and Ruger Arx Polycase.
LCD is 50gr +P fragmenting hollowpoint traveling at about 2000fps and works alot like RIP with better cycling and reliability,
And will also apparently defeat up to IIIA body armor :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr6h44Pu4sM
ARX is 85gr, traveling at about 1350-1400fps Polymer cased "finned" projectile designed to create "maximum hydraulic displacement" without being a hollowpoint.
Whats your choice in personal defense ammo, and why?
>3 mags
>mousegun bullet weight
>comparing terminal effectiveness to RIP rounds
>in year 7 of our HST
When you make terrible choices you go all out, dont you?
>>29169869
I bought two boxes of Liberty Civil Defense. One of them was full of poorly crimped bullets that wiggled around in their cases and were seated at completely inconsistent depths.
I haven't even tried shooting the "good" box, maybe when I have a beater pistol I'm not so attached to, or something I plan on selling. I'll stick to Hornady, Speer, etc.
>>29169896
Im just going to ignore everything else, and ask, why is more ammo, a terrible choice?
>buying unproven memer ammo
>any year
Just use something like gold dots or hsts. You're literally buying rip ammo but with more reasonable marketing.
>>29169896
also fuck your opinion in bullet weight, when these things are going 18+ inches through gel, who the fuck cares? Your 9mm isnt packing a punch enough to literally knock someone down anyway. Im going for maximum physical damage.
>>29169901
and thats a shame, ive purchased over 200rds of LCD and never seen that. Maybe you got early production? Or maybe a QC agent just kinda said "fuck it" one day. Personally, I LOVE this ammo, the recoil is NIL and the damage left is absolutely brutal.
>>29169869
>being this uninformed
it depends on caliber, 21 year old college op
>>29169902
Because carrying a pistol and three mags takes up space that defeats the purpose of carrying a pistol (convenience).
If you dont feel safe with an extra mag you should defs be carrying a rifle and not mess around with the fuck fuck games.
>>29169913
>maximum physical damage
> <100 grain comparable to RIP
Cute.
>>29169942
1 in mag, 2 in change pocket? Quite convenient.
The whole purpose of this post was missed.
Why dont you tell me, what you carry, and why, and stop being a salty fuckknuckle.
>>29169930
Also nailed the age on the head. No complaints.
>>29169985
Glock 19 IWB.
Glock 43 IWB if I find myself saying "I dont NEED to bring a gun because X".
One mag.
If you have time to reload from your jeans pocket you have time to break contact which SHOULD be yiur focus since your one man armed with a pistol.
Get those hero jack bauer fantasies out of your head.
>>29169869
Just use speer gold dot anon. Good value for hollowpoints, relatively cheap and very reliable.
>>29170019
Oooo, finally someone who makes a makes a valid point.
Still though AMMO. the topic is AMMMMMOOOOO
>>29170019
If your mag shits itself because bent feed lips or broken/weak spring or broken floorplate a spare mag isn't such a terrible thing to have...
>>29170007
terminal ballistics is a science that is not even fully understood by professionals who study it for a living. it takes a long time to learn all the nuances of shooting ballistics, let alone for the variety of calibers and models of bullets available
i would advise you to carry something heavier in 9mm, at least 124gr. proven loads are speer gold dot +p and federal hst
>>29170031
>>29170030
Thank you, for both having genuinely helpful/good points to make.
Ill look into getting some heavier ammo, although I do like to have something potentially armor piercing in my pocket.
>>29170019
Sometimes the situation doesn't allow for you to break contact easily. Theres nothing wrong with carrying spare mags.
>>29170052
and the more the merrier right?
If you can carry it comfortably why bug about it?
>>29170052
Yeah man.
Those 96 hour running gun battles that happen in first world countries all the time.
Got to be prepared.
Be sure to bring a backup gun.
>>29170052
>>29170071
Or the shooter is standing in the only available exit.
>>29170071
In what world does "theres nothing wrong with carrying a spare mag" mean 96 hour gun battles?
>>29170071
If you can make 45 rounds last 96 hours, youre obviously hiding.
>>29170038
except great, youve pierced some armor and now the tiny 50 grain bullet has shattered into dust on the other side, and causes little to no damage to the target. what we are talking about here is the neverending debate: light and fast, or heavy and slow. surface area also plays a significant factor, hence why you choose different bullet types for different caliber guns. a common 22 bullet weighs 40 grains, you are shooting a not much heavier 50 grain bullet out of a 9mm with almost twice as much surface area. it is going to lose energy much more quickly when hitting something, than the 22. which means its going to penetrate a lot less. what happens if your assailant holds up his arm to block your shots, will the 50 grain 9mm hollowpoint pass through his arm, and still have the mass and energy to penetrate to a vital?
>>29170030
>not inspecting your mags whenever you clean your gun
That's justification for a single extra mag for that 1 ina million chance you use your ccw, the one in a hundred of THOSE where you actually fire a round, and then that off chance when you do angels piss in your soup because you didnt inspect the gear you trust your life to.
All this prep and extra gear carried yet you probably havent eaten a single salad all week to fight the diabetes and heart disease thats LIKELY to kill you.
>>29170092
Dunno but I got 15 of them in the first mag, soooooo....
>>29170085
>>29170063
>>29170052
if you look at surveillance cam tapes of common shooting crimes on youtube, the majority of assailants bail out as soon as they realize the victim is armed. 99.999% of criminals arent going to engage in a stationary gun battle with you
>>29170081
It's not 1970 anymore.
All buildings have multiple exits per fire code.
Note, building fires, ANOTHER thing more likely to kill you than an active shooter.
>>29170092
Although I definitely appreciate the insight, not to be a twat.
This whole post got taken in completely the wrong direction lol.
>>29170106
And that's justification that nobody should carry spare mags how?
What do you no-guns faggots think of critical duty? Personally I think they're the tits.
>>29170114
but why take the fucking chance? wouldnt it suck to either:
A. run out of ammo and still have a serious threat,
or!
B. have a mag malfunction!?!?!
OOPS WELL I THOUGHT I WAS BEING CONSERVATIVE ONLY CARRYING ONE MAG.
>>29170099
except what if their other hand is holding the gun that is shooting at you, and you only have time to get 1 shot off before your lights are out
>>29170085
Because a 96 hour running gun battle is the only situation a person could REALISTICALLY require three mags worth of pistol ammo.
It SHOULD sound rediculous.
>>29170127
used to carry a .357.
Only ammo i used minus SUPER-X .357 silver tip hollow.
>>29169869
I carry anything that will feed in my gun which usually ends up being FMJs of some sort.
>>29170132
no a 96 hour gun battle and you should have a fucking main battle rifle you fucking ar-tard.
>>29170119
not saying nobody should carry spare mags, just saying if you are stacking odds, you are already likely to never draw your weapon in self defense, much less fire it, much less need additional mags for it
>Because a 96 hour running gun battle is the only situation a person could REALISTICALLY require three mags worth of pistol ammo.
Are you fucking retarded?
>>29170119
besides, too many people throw extra mags on the belt without having vetted them for duty. you want hundreds of rounds through your self defense mag without problems to know you can trust it, make sure you do that with all mags you carry, not just one or two
>>29170127
>run out of ammo and still jave a serious threat
Your aim sucks. Carrying an extra mag is either ammo you wont get to because youll be dead or ammo you spray around the assailant.
Yiu are setting yourself up to engage in a fight you are NOT prepared for. Yiur ccw doesnt exist to go toe to toe with a rifle kitted enemy who doesnt care for concealment or printing.
Sure you can get the drop on him and end it quick, but a single mag gets you there.
Again, carry 45 rounds of pistol ammo every day of your life. Im jusy calling you out for your jack bauer fantasy.
>>29170121
I keep the +p version in my larger pistol but I use critical defense in my carry gun.
>>29170127
id say for those type of emergencies you would be better served with a second gun. if you have a catastrophic mag failure, are you really going to want to spend the time unsticking it from your magwell? you got a spring hanging out through the top of your gun and the mag wont drop from the bottom? much better to just drop the current weapon and reach for your backup j-frame revolver/380/pocket9
>>29170163
"your"
but still, if you carry in comfortably, and in a usable position WHY NOT CARRY MORE!?!??!?
Youre literally arguing that you shouldnt carry more ammo, because YOU dont THINK you should need it.
>>29170147
Yeah man.
Remeber that time that ccw got in a firefight with a bunch of ninja assassin cartel terrorists.
Thank god he kept a pistol with three mags, a backup gun with two, and a j frame in an ankle holster.
Considering he had ninja assassin cartel terrorists after him, he probably should have just carried his rifle everywhere.
>>29170173
its illegal to CC more than one weapon.
>>29170175
if you can carry it comforably, do whatever you want. for me, carrying extra shit is annoying
>>29170179
where?? not in my state of cuckifornia
>>29170177
Or the time he got into a realistic fire fight with 2+ combatants in cover?
Which lets be honest, isnt exactly probable, but any scenario can happen.
>>29170175
Because human experience proves that for most of human existence carrying a GUN is unneccessary and most people are living out some operator fantasy because they think driving to jack in the box is the same as patrolling fallujah.
>>29170097
>his opinion is slightly different
>time to call him fat!
I feel mildly better and think it's a nice idea having a spare mag for a variety of reasons, including possible mechanical failure which may or may not be caught in time by routine inspection.
It's not impacting my daily routine to have a single spare shoved in my pocket while out and about. If you don't like carrying spares, that's fine, you're in a free country.
>>29169869
Crossposting from the other thread.
Very light bullets going very fast. Generally shatters and is advertised to fragment, even though fragments don't travel very far if they're not from an explosive, and doesn't go to the FBI 12" minimum in gel. I wouldn't trust it to penetrate enough bone for a proper headshot, to penetrate the spine, or to fully penetrate heart/lung if it hits a rib or the sternum.
They advertise with kinetic energy, even though energy transfer wounding is really only confirmed out of intermediate (5.56/7.62x39) or full size rifle calibers.
Keep in mind that a BB breaking skin takes the same amount of force as a BB going 3-4 inches of gel. 12" in gel is basically 8-9 inches through air-filled lungs and a blood filled heart after breaking the skin, which is definitely reasonable if they're turned sideways or at an angle, or if there's an arm in the way.
They advertise their fragments going 3.5 inches in gel sideways, so that's basically breaking the skin. It won't go 3.5 inches past bone.
There's a reason they don't use fast fragmenting bullets when making dangerous game ammunition to kill elephant or cape buffalo, they use solids to smash through bone and scramble whatever's underneath (hopefully brain).
Solid hollowpoints that stay in one piece while penetrating to twelve inches are still your best bet. I like HSTs and Gold Dots.
"carrying a GUN is unneccessary"
Why the fuck are you even in K
>>29170179
pls be bait.
>>29170211
Maybe im incorrect, but thats what I was told.
>>29170196
What fucking situation has two people engaging in sustained firefights out of the blue with someone?
No really.
Who says, "let's fuck this guy up, and if he pulls a gun we're sticking around to get either tagged or picked up by the police."
>>29170218
Are you saying it's an impossible situation?
or are you just guessing from your vast knowledge of human decision making...?
>>29170209
Because I appreciate weapons and exercise of my rights and preparation for rare worse case self defense scenarios but not to the exclusion of my real life issues and problems since I can actually exert power over managing them.
>>29170217
where do you live? we can google it right now. i have never heard of a restrictoin like that, and i live in one of the most fucked up states (california) where we can carry up to 3 guns (onl y because a max of 3 guns are allowed on a permit, not because thats a rule on carrying a certain amount at a certain time)
>>29170228
"rare worse case self defense scenarios"
proving my point in carrying extra mags yourself.
>>29170121
>pre-clogged Hornady that winds up expanding the same as 1980s hollowpoints instead of the modern standard trifecta of Gold Dot, HST, and Winchester Ranger-T/PDX1
>>29170166
>Critical Defense
>aka the one that won't expand after passing through a car windshield or door
>one of the Critical Defense commercials is a woman getting attacked while fixing her car with the hood up
>FBI sheet metal test
>FBI auto glass test
>Hornady refuses to make Critical Defense expand and penetrate properly after these test materials
>because civilians don't need to prevent fragmentation/overpenetration around and in cars
>goddamnit Hornady
.45 cal ball
>>29170224
Yes.
Unless of course youre the last of some ninja clan out for revenge, a super assassin, a cartel enforcer, or some blackops domestic counter terror unit.
Read: anything that makes your life seem more dangerous, active, and interesting than it realistically ever will be.
>>29170244
So literally anyone who carries more than one mag is QUOTE-UNFUCKING-QUOTE part of a NINJA CLAN, a SUPER ASSASSIN, or part of a BLACKOPS DOMESTIC COUNTER TERROR UNIT.
You sir, dont even require arguing against, because you sound like a fucking fool all by yourself, without anyone else saying anything.
Carrying an extra mag (or even two ERMAHGURD) is REALLY not that big of a fucking deal.
>>29170253
If yiu need that many bullets then yiur aim sucks..
>>29170243
puts them japs n jerries right down quick
>>29170269
Says the guy missing the O every fucking time.
Just like you have on every girlfriend you probably havent had.
>>29170243
i would recommend 9mm ball over OPs shitty ammo to be honest
>>29170269
>>29170284
Over penetration much? Also not causing enough internal damage?
>>29170253
Wrong.
Anyone who carries a second mag WISHES they were a ninja assassin cartel terrorist counter agent.
And their cosplay probably hints at the inability to handle more common, mundane elements of their lives that wear on them every day.
So they prepare and focus on that big firefight that will never happen, so they can get all that respect and deference and praise and recognition they lack because other than owning a gun and carrying a bunch of mags on their basketball shorts, they do nothing of note.
>>29170296
better than underpenetration. penetration is literally the most important factor in ballistics, everything else is secondary. if you cant rely on your bullet making it through the target to your vitals you aimed at, everything else is left to chance. i assure you a 9mm ball round to the face will cause plenty of internal damage, as will a 9mm ball to the heart and spine
>>29170299
hahahahahaha holy fuck.
although i dont cosplay hahahahahahaha
Dayumn. I like to think ive done some things of note, Way to tear a motherfucker apart. Props to an angry poster.
>>29170299
TRUMP 2016
>>29170319
valid point mang. cant argue with that.
>>29170338
ITT:
OP got meme'd hard and bought a 9mm gun that now shoots 22lr weight bullets
>>29169869
FMJ since its cheap and available. the rounds i cary are the ones i can practice with.
>>29172034
a fine choice anon. i would say 99.999% of people will suck at shooting their +P self defense loads in real life because they only ever practiced with low powered cheap steel case ammo and will be surprised by the recoil and flash
>>29169901
I had this same problem with a single box of LCD and I emailed the company and they sent me 10 free boxes of the ammo as an apology.
You fucked up if you didn't do this with them.
I carry LCD in my Glock 22 and that shit is the smoothest firing ammo I've ever put through a handgun ever.
>>29173131
>smoothest firing ammo
it better be, it's basically a 22lr conversion
>>29173131
>smoothest firing ammo
Noguns try to describe guns for the first time.
This
>>29169869
I carry 50 rounds of 9mm Federal HST 147gr, regular P.
>>29173501
Well, it gives my .40 considerably less snap, and follow up shots are greatly improved other typical ammo types, consider it being a fucking .40 and all.
>pic related, my glock and LCD ammo
and this
>>29170131
Then why not carry a goddamn breech-loading 45-70, you twat?
If someone wants to carry more than one mag or gun who cares? I'm not an expert in self defense and don't know what you expect so who am I to judge?
Having said that, glock 19 with 147 grain +p. Usually 16 rounds and keep a second mag in the car. Sometimes I'll carry a 2nd on me but found I conceal better without it. Read too much Massad Ayoob who always said its a good idea to carry a second. If you can get away with it carry more.
