Why isn't bullpup considered strictly superior?
I've never actually handled a bullpup rifle, is it awkward to hold due to the hands being close together or something?
A non-bullpup basically adds deadweight/useless length for a butt to place on the shoulder, a bullpup avoids this. Why aren't all new rifles bullpups?
>>29145297
The triggers are pretty mushy on every bullpup
Some people like the traditional rifle design better
Adjustable LOP stocks are not really a thing on bullpups
The extra barrel length is negligible
because bullpups are for faaaaaaaaaaags
unless you're a polesmoking cock gobbler you should not touch a bullpup
>>29145324
What if I am
>>29145297
The overall benefit against rifles like the M4 seems to be negligible. I mean, it seems like it would be a clearly superior system, but it just doesn't seem to make a big enough difference to matter, and people like having adjustable stocks.
OP here
Okay I'm not talking about range time. I'm talking about a rifleman's rifle in actual combat.
>>29145297
They look cooler so naturally they're better.
>>29145341
Hmm, so a bullpup can't have an adjustable stock? >>29145312
Really? Shouldn't be too difficult to manufacture an adjustable stock bullpup
>>29145361
There is one, the VHS, but it's kind of ass ugly.
>>29145347
>I'm talking about a rifleman's rifle in actual combat.
Generally speaking, 800 m/s seems to be enough for the 5.56 to do its job. You can get that out of an M4 easy. So what is the benefit of a longer barrel? I mean, if you were shooting at a stationary target at a range, a longer barrel is better, but under combat conditions, the extra half-inch of deviation just doesn't matter for most situations.
>>29145297
The triggers are not as crisp by design
The reloading ergos can be annoying especially when prone
some people dislike being closer to the muzzle flash
Overall they're a solution looking for a problem. Nothing inherently worse or better about the design, they're just different so it's not really worth the effort to switch over from a familiar platform.
>>29145377
Sure, I guess the M4 is small enough that theoretically anyone should be able to handle it in most situations. But a bullpup design with M4 action could have a couple more inches on the barrel and still be a couple of inches shorter length overall.
These days, lying prone and pumping full auto fire at the enemy is usually not the job of the rifleman, so wouldn't he want a lighter rifle for his job, which is things like clearing rooms and being mobile?
>>29145402
>But a bullpup design with M4 action
I don't think that is even possible.
>>29145377
The whole point of the bullpup is you get all of that. You can get a long ass barrel in a short package. Fair more interesting than that though is the fact that a complete parts kit replacement for a tavor or AUG (minus the stock) can be carried in a bag, and swapped out in minutes! That is impressive stuff. Especially if you are looking for something to truly carry around with no resupply option.
Daily reminder that nearly all semiautomatic handguns are bullpups.
>>29145463
The AUG is the one bull-up that doesn't look like some unholy combination of parts that just got stuck together somehow. It looks cool and futuristic.
>>29145533
I can't help but agree
>>29145297
>Why isn't bullpup considered strictly superior
Because they're not. I own several bullpups and I enjoy shooting them, but there is no way I would take one into combat over a traditional style rifle. Due to the transfer bar, the triggers will always be inferior; they are undeniably bulky; and (even though people argue against this all of the time) they are more difficult to reload under stress.
>>29145347
Not OP here. Operat
I'm talking about operators operating in operations operationally at the opera as operatives with a rifleman's rifle.
>>29145533
AUG master race reporting in
>>29145297
They haven't been perfected as of yet, though we're very close to seeing some with all the kinks worked out.
>lefties didn't like eating brass, introducing forward/downward ejection
>b-but the stock doesn't work for my giraffe arms! here, have an adjustable stock
>the trigger sucks! Hasn't been an issue in any new bullpips
>m-muh slow reloads! Welp at least it has a short OAL so you can turn it around and shoot yourself you fucking retard that was never a problem
So far only FN, Kel tec, and desert tech have been able to field something that fits most of those requirements. The MDR is looking good, mostly likely it'll be a home run, and supposedly FN is working on a bullpup version of the SCAR, after flushing the FS2000 down the toilet bowl (kek)
They are the future, soon anyone with an AR will be the new fudd, and that pisses off a lot of people who spent good money on their Vietnam era grandpa guns, so I can understand the hate.
>>29145572
i think the trigger issue is being solved by a lot of companies, desert tech and kel tec both seem to have come to some form of solution.
And I think if you train with a bullpup the way you train with a traditional rifle I think it would be just as (not more though) easy to use.
>>29145595
source on fn bullpupping the scar?
Some bullpups are shit.
Some have no equal.
>>29145596
The AUG has the NeuTrigger and Trigger Tamer available for it as well. Somewhere around $100 for both of them and it makes for a very nice light and crisp trigger.
>>29145603
I think the only SCAR bullpups I've seen were done by some custom shop for a shitty police force.
>>29145595
>>29145596
I hear you assholes talking a lot of shit, but I still haven't seen anyone produce a video of someone reloading a bullpup as quickly as an AR.
>>29145625
>he thinks reloading half a second faster matters in anything but 3gun
>>29145625
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXvUtvC7nxs
This guys pretty smooth with an AUG, but get your COWADOOTY shit out of here. Go jerk off to some Miculek videos if you care about shaving nanoseconds off of reload speed.
>>29145625
have you considered that is because of the wide proliferation of ARs and info about how to make your reload take .0000001 seconds whereas there is currently little to no info regarding bullpup reload procedure? Bullpups are currently not standardized the way ARs are either, but if a bullpup that didn't have a complete retard set up was as widely distributed as an AR you'd quickly see reloads that are just as fast or faster.
>>29145657
>>29145661
A simple "you're correct" would have sufficed, but you tears have brought me joy none the less.
>>29145562
She's a beauty.
>>29145398
>>29145341
>>29145398
>>>29145297 (OP)
>The reloading ergos can be annoying especially when prone
It's amazing, how this made up myth, made up decades ago, (I first read it in 1885), still lives on.
I actually liked reloading aug & tavor in prone.
One could even argue, that it's better - the reloading hand travels smaller distance, and right arm holds the rifle in the mass center, which is more comfortable during reload.
>>29145701
Get out of here wandering Jew your immortal ass doesn't count
>>29145297
Tried both, from the outside bullpup looks like all the good things on a rifle in a smaller package. But I definitely had problems with it. I am practiced with conventional designs so that may have a factor, but I found the advantages of a bullpup to just not be for me.
>>29145701
Reasonable argument
>>29145720
Being a /k/unt
>>29145352
It comes it different flavors, but this is essentially ever bullpup fans argument.
They look good on paper but in practice the ergonomics are all kinds of fucked up.
>>29145377
A longer barrel can help with velocity depending on the round, but usually hurts accuracy. Short barrels are stiffer and thus more accurate (assuming identical profile, etc.). Also for long distance shooting a bipod is best and bullpups typically can't effectively mount one, or even be rested on a pack, cover, etc.
>>29146829
>the ergonomics are all kinds of fucked up
Have you ever actually used one?
>>29146840
You might have a point if the difference in accuracy between the tavor, aug, and AR15 weren't all identical.
BUT FOR THOSE WHO HATE THE BULLPUP
MOTHERFUCKING BULLPUP HATES YOU TOO
Bullpups were designed, in part, for mechanized infantry to be able to easily maneuver their rifle inside vehicles, and to be less cumbersome during the mount/dismounting process.
>>29145297
you can't tactically magflip and keep the barrel downrange while reloading with a bullpup like you can with a conventional rifle
>>29145297
The only cons I can think about it is the noise closer to your ears
>>29145297
In short its because theyre expensive and have generally inferior triggers.
Some designs dont work for lefties or shooting off weak side shoulder.
Most of them are heavier than a 16" AR with a govt profile barrel because theyre bulkier.
Lotta people dont trust plastic FCGs, and the two most widely known (f2000, p90) did have issues with them breaking fairly early.
>>29147059
So why are all of them 6 inches thick?
I just wish somebody would make a 556 bullpup with a 20 inch barrel. That with a good trigger would make an awesome coyote gun. How well do current bullpups take to being supressed?
>>29145417
>neva been done befo
>>29145701
So, are you immortal or something? Did you have a bullpup 1903 when you were drafted in WWI?
>read in 1885
>1885
>>29146852
Yes. They suck compared to ARs and even AKs.
>>29146862
Can you rest a tavor or aug on a pack of mount a usable bipod? No. Being incapable of using stable field positions does affect practical accuracy.
>>29147090
This.
>but muh triggers are getting better
The design requirements create an inherently worse trigger. Without going to an electronic trigger system traditional designs will always have superior triggers.
>intermediate rifle
>needing a bipod
Are you daft son.
>>29147147
Kill yourself
>>29145297
The only real issue I have with bullpups is that if the round in the chamber explodes, it much closer to your face.
Triggers aren't as nice
The rest is preference
>>29147134
Generally they suppress pretty well. All the ones Im familiar with are pistons with switched gas blocks.
>>29145615
>50 rounds
>40gr 2000fps
>69gr 1000fps
>20" OAL
Explain to me how a PS90 SBR/P90 isn't the best gun of all time.
>>29147268
My service rifle is an AUG.
I never had big problems even when i went through snow mud or sand.
If you are too stupid to handle the trigger then please dont use guns. To hit a target in 400m is no big deal even my recruits hit in 300m what they should hit after the first few shots...
>>29147408
Would you mind addressing 2 of >>29147268's points? How do you steady the rifle when shooting prone, and have you had the chance to compare the stock trigger on your AUG to a AR-15 variant?
>>29145297
>shit triggers
>more moving parts
>catastrophic malfunctions happens literally under your face
>all the weight is behind the pivot point
>awkward reload and checking malfunctions
>>29147467
> All of the weight is behind the pivot point
Isn't that the point, though? Moving the guns center of mass towards the shoulder makes it easier to point the rifle.
>>29147526
I agree, I don't see why everyone thinks that's an issue with bullpups, maybe someone can explain?
>>29147467
>more moving parts
This is the only valid argument imo, the other ones are either not true or not a big deal to me. But the number of moving parts due to the trigger linkage does worry me. I think if someone was willing we could get a bullpup that has an equal number of moving parts but that would take a smarter person than me. But all in all I've heard of few to no massive trigger malfunctions (in modern bullpups at least).
>>29145297
better in terms of overall length, thats about it.
>>29147624
And balance
>>29147268
Nigga you can mount a bipod on an aug
>>29148010
Not necessarily/typically true.
>>29145615
this is how you do a bullpup
bullpups only really have an advantage over traditional rifles when it comes to confined spaces,submachine guns also dominate cqb. a bullpup smg has all the advantages in the right spot and the p90 is a great example
How hard is it to swap a bull barrel on a bullpup. I'd love a heavy contour 16" on my AR, but I don't want the gun too front heavy.
A bullpup might solve that problem.
>>29147526
>>29147605
Weight forward rifles are easier to follow up with or shoot longer distances with because they're more stable. They're also MUCH easier to control on auto.
The tradeoff is they suck to hold at the ready for any length of time.
You will note the only militaries who adopted a bullpup are ones that never actually shoot anybody, and their SOF all carry M4s with the even heavier SOCOM barrels.
>>29148062
Explain how the balance is worse? It seems way more ergonomic to me (keep in mind I'm kinda a manlet, small but I'm not weak, so perhaps it has to do with geometry? Like smaller people might prefer bullpups generally because they don't have to extend their support arm as far out, leading them to be less fatigued?
>>29145562
I know everyone hates on stormtrooper white for guns, but is personally think white on black looks awesome.
>>29148410
I personally don't care for it but not my gun not my problem
>>29147397
Because it BTFO German Kraut Magic...
>>29145369
i love its particular brand of ugly. if that thing hits the US in any decent numbers prop armorers are gonna be all over it
>>29145463
outside of saw gunners is going to carry a spare barrel. nobody. yeah its a cool feature but 2-3 extra mags would be a lot better.
its great for cleaning and im sure armorers love it but nobody in the field is going to worry about that
>>29145625
maybe thats because ARs are about the fastest rifle to reload and the technique has been practiced in depth. A bullpup reload is about average compared to nost other weapons, especially if you consider mag retention. The AR is nice but using it as the measuring stick for literally every other weapon is flawed
>>29145312
>The triggers are pretty mushy on every bullpup
Is that something inherent to the bullpup design? It seems like that would be an easy fix.
>>29149255
Yeah it is.
Its the ridiculously long transfer bar.
It can be mitigated but without a radically different design not eliminated.
>>29147397
terminal ballistcs mostly. good at ehat it was designed for, but otherwise a bit limited. there are a few guys that hunt medium game with it succesfully. opting for a slightly larger case, a sabot or .25 to .277 projectile could have mixed it up a bit but im sure FN took the most viable route. its also a sensitive fucking round
>>29148410
i love that shit but im a pretty big fan of non standard (black, green, browns) colors on modern guns. white with grey accents is my current favorite
>>29145562
J fuck off.
because all old faggots spent all their life using a non-bullpup
and they hate change
