I enlisted in the marines in 2010. My first 2 years I was a SAW gunner. After that my unit completely phased out the SAW for the m27. I hate the fucking thing. No more belt fed weapons organic to my squad. Expect IAR gunners to carry 22 magazines. Do you guys think the Marine Corps fucked up by phasing out the SAW?
>>29119153
I was okay with the idea when I heard they were just using them as an excuse to have automatic rifles in the squad...but if they're outright replacing SAWs...just why.
>>29119205
Some units still have some SAWs left. But my squad went from 13 guys with 3 SAWs between them, to 13 guys with 3 iars
if surefire 60s weren't pieces of shit it would make sense
>>29119153
at what point does the navy phase out the marines?
>>29119296
Don't you mean "surehopeit'llfire" hahahaahahahah
BADOOM
>>29119153
When I first came in the Army I was a SAW gunner in an Infantry company. I absolutely hate the SAW for being a poorly designed jam prone unnecessarily complicated piece of shit.
When I finally got back onto tanks and started in on the loaders 240 It was a godsend.
However, while I hate the SAW, the IAR really cannot replicate the volume of fire a SAW provides.
>>29119319
you know what would fix that. new 249s. IARs are just an excuse to get new gear and feel special
>>29119319
249s don't jam easily. Keep it clean, and if it's running sluggish dump clp on to the feed tray. Sucks to clean later, but it keeps it from jamming.
Should go back to the BAR desu senpai.
>>29119296
The P-Mag drum is supposed to work pretty well.
>>29119319
This guy gets it.
>>29119339
>you know what would fix that. new 249s. IARs are just an excuse to give H&K more money
ftfy
>>29119319
>>29119341
I think the IAR is a retarded idea, but the deal with the SAW? It's old. They're wearing out, and becoming more and more unreliable with age. Even M2's will start jamming every 3-4 rounds if they're old enough, which too many do.
>being infantry
Armor is where it's at, boys
I like the m27 btw
>>29119153
If they give everyone an IAR, then there's no issues.
>>29119153
Ouch, 22 mags? Fucking how does that work? I was an Army fag, wasn't a fan of the 249. I wouldn't be against phasing them out for something belt fed that's better. Carrying 22 mags seems kind of asinine. 240 was the bee's knees though.
>>29120756
what causes those jams? doesnt the military have the money for new $5 springs to replace the old worn out ones? or are these jams you are referring to not spring related?
>>29121002
SAW's are just worn the hell out man, the recievers are stressed, you can swap out springs and other parts like topcovers and even barrels and bolts like the army does but you can still run into these issues. The M16 mag adapter is a common problem child.
It's time for another system, whether it be the Mk46, or the KAC LMG, the only problem is the army has been holding back because of the experimental 5.56/caseless LMG.
As for the M27 IAR, I don't understand wtf the marine corps is doing - adopting a AR to almost entirely replace the SAW without a drum/extended mag (when there is already an NSN'd drum mag), and dumping the M16A5 upgrade for the M4 - which would have been a reduced weight M16 with a free float light rail and collapsible stock a la the C7A2, possibly even rebarreled to 18" with a better non grenade profile barrel, and honsetly the performance of such would have made the army look at upgrading some old M16A4's
The IAR is a bit too accurate for a squad automatic, and the fact the USMC hasn't adopted a drum/extended mag is perplexing when the beta mag has an NSN.
>>29121305
The beta mag has an NSN. What it lacks is an sort of reliability.
>>29119153
>tfw never been stuck with the SAW
Feels good.
>>29121254
I assume they're thinking along the lines of ease of use. It's a hell of a lot easier to clear an Ar type malfunction vs a saw. No need for the pop the top cover and look away crap. No fucking up when indexing rounds, just slap in a magazine and hit the bolt release. I could see the advantages of the Iar if they fielded it in greater numbers within a squad to make up for the small loss of volume. Also fuck those hard boxes that hold the belts. Shit plastic always breaks
>>29121557
But dat volume of fire.
>>29121254
Seems like the FN Mk. 48 would be a great replacement. Size of a SAW, but 7.62x51. That KAC LMG looks interesting too.
>>29121254
is there a reason why they dont just buy new SAW receivers? is it too cost prohibitive? you'd think with all the money they invested in spare parts and such, they wouldnt want to change platforms
>>29121634
>is it too cost prohibitive?
Yes, contrary to popular belief the military's budget is not infinite.
>>29121760
well i was just wondering compared to buying a whole new model of gun
>replace belt-fed machineguns with heavy barrel rifles
>follow in footsteps of Cold War era Russian solutions
>except refuse to develop and issue a reliable drum mag
>push out new rifle too early anyway
Why is it that the US Military can't into small arms ever since WW2? The Garand was great-tier but there were way too many bad decisions made ever since then.
>>29121591
...you do realize the mk48 is literally an m240L with a shorter barrel and railz, right?
>>29121760
The budget is huge, but not for infantry gear. Shit like the Navy and Air Force get massive budgets for programs like the LCS and the F-35.
>>29121790
No it's not.
"The Mk 48 Mod 0 is a gas-operated, air-cooled, fully automatic belt-fed machine gun. The design is based on an early 7.62×51mm NATO prototype of the FN Minimi, modified to be a scaled-up version of the 5.56 mm Mk 46 Mod 0."
![Improved_M249_Machine_Gun[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/s9oy9B0.jpg "Improved_M249_Machine_Gun[1].jpg")
>>29121806
The difference there is that small arms technology has advanced a lot slower than what the AF and Navy have to deal with, additionally, RND and overall costs of small arms is significantly lower and the budget reflects that.
The most promising piece of small arms technology to show up recently is the LSAT and it is likely the reason why there hasn't been any attempts at procurement of a proper M249 replacement. I was also under the impression that the US Army was replacing parts and modernizing the M249 while the Marines chose to go with their IAR concept which was mainly just a way to get HK a military contract.
Marines spent their whole existance being fuck ups
SAW's are pointless, need high velocity grenade launchers with programmable grenades
like the OICW
>>29121760
It would cost 40 million to replace every 249 in the Marine arsenal, or 0.001% of their budget.
They're going this route because it's what they want to do, not because they can't afford anything else.
>>29122042
>0.001% of their budget
That's 0.001% of the Marine's entire budget, not just their budget for small arms.
>>29121954
the OICW was an arny led program
If you're gonna shit talk at least know what the fuck youre talking about
>>29119153
I'm a marine and I have yet to see fucking anyone carry god damn 22 magazines.
>>29122130
Where did I say the OICW was a marine program?
>>29120756
I thought I had an M2 that was worn out once. Turns out I was just treating it too nice. They seem to function better if you let it stay a bit filthy and really lay into the bursts.
>>29119153
Being the newest and shortest soldier in my platoon, of course I was assigned a 249. I wouldn't mind carrying the M27. I figure 100 round drums would be too cumbersome, and that's why they don't issue them out, but why not issue it with 60 round magazines? Wouldn't that partially solve the problem?
Y'all some bitch ass niggas, I carried the 240 around Afghanistan no problem at all.
I have a feeling this whole IAR no SAW bullshit is going to get some Marines killed.
>>29119319
The problem with the SAWs is that most of them are old as fuck.
>>29119306
When the Rangers cease being shit.
>>29119306
Did Army faggots sign up to ride in ships?
>>29119319
You're saying the 240 is better than the SAW when they have almost exactly the same guts.
The British Army had the same concept as the IAR with the LSW. During Iraq and Afghanistan it was discovered that it doesn't fucking work so they brought in Minimis. Dunno why the USMC are going with the idea to be honest, not having a couple of LMGs is a big loss of firepower for a section.
Even if they really wanna suck that HK dick, why not get the MG4 instead of the IAR?
>>29122181
Yea they issue 22 mags. My IAR gunner carries 10, and the rest are distributed throughout the fire team.
I dig the idea of an M27 as a squad level DM. Arguably capable of suppression. Maybe this will swing the doctrine back towards every infantryman getting a full auto M4 and base of fire/breaking contact becoming an organic process rather than resting on a 1-3 man support section within the squad.
Either way I don't see it working. There's not replacement for displacement. It's hard to fight against crew served or lmg/gpmg without something similar in most situations.
I have a buddy in a recon unit that says they just started carrying 240s indivually when they took the saws.
>>29125554
I've only lurked this thread because I used to be a SAW gunner. I know nothing of the m27 because I EAS'd in 2011 and my unit didn't have them...
Did you just fucking say the light machine gun is the designated marksmen? Cause I was my squads DM. Do you realize how retarded you just sounded? The DM is usually the best shot in a squad, and carries a rifle. It's all just a theory anyway (at least in the muhreens) because it assumes a situation in which you spot an enemy and they want you to Chris Kyle American Sniper a person. In reality everybody wants to "get some" and just shoot whether they are a shit shot or not.
In summation: kill yourself my man.
>>29126686
Dude the m27 is just a heavy barreled 416 usually with an ACOG. Definitely capable of MOA shots. Precision can provide suppression.
>>29126686
>reading comprehension this bad
Should have stayed in the Army, bud.
>>29126686
Research bitch
>>29119153
well i understand they're testing high cap mags for the IAR
>>29126881
>>29126905
>>29126914
LMG as DM... Explain.
>>29126686
no you need to kill yourself
The m27 is intended to provide more accurate fire at longer ranges and worry less about volume of fire.
the very least you could do is read the fucking wiki article on the gun.
>>29126905
>criticized reading comprehension
>should have stayed in Army
I said in post Marines. Reread your reading comprehension.
>>29126926
A heavier barreled rifle with an adequate optic could serve as the DM's rifle. The same rifle in the SAW gunner's would also be capable of suppressing automatic fire. They aren't telling the SAW gunner "ok now you're DM too"
>>29120790
>armor where where you get fat, boys
FTFY
The m27 is literally a heavy barreled 416. Just a piston driven M16. Takes the same mags and ammo.
They are very accurate. Ergo, I see the rifle far more suited to DMing than in suppressive support because it really IS NOT a proper lmg.
That more clear?
>>29121789
Joos
Per wikipedia, in regards to the Marine Corps' mentality of adopting the M27 over the M249
Doctrine:
With the M27 IAR, the idea of suppression shifts to engaging with precision fire, as it has rifle accuracy at long range and automatic fire at short range. Shooters transitioned from long-range precision fire at 700 meters to short-to-medium suppressive fire at 200 meters, both while in the prone position. Some gunners in combat have been used as designated marksmen. An M27 gunner with one aimed shot has the effect of three or four automatic shots from the SAW, and still has the option of a heavier volume with an accurate grouping.
Reviews:
It weighed 9 lb loaded, compared to 22 lb for an M249, which was a significant difference when on 5-hour long missions. Gunners said it was "two weapons in one," being able to fire single shots accurately out to 800 meters and have full automatic fire. It also blended in with standard M16-style service rifles, so the enemy did not know who was a machine gunner. The battalion leadership also saw the M27 as better at preventing collateral damage, as it is more controllable on automatic than the M249. Concern of volume of fire loss was made up for through training courses developed in December 2010.
Marines issued with the M27 enjoy its familiarity with the M4-style weapons in service. It is friendlier to troops due to its cleaner, lightweight system having fewer moving parts and jams. IAR gunners consider the rifle-grade accuracy to be a huge improvement over the SAW, despite the loss of sustained firing. With a shrinking budget, the Marine Corps is looking at ways to implement the IAR as a multipurpose weapon. Suggestions included use as an automatic rifle and as a designated marksman rifle,[21] a role where it replaced the Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle.[1] Additionally, the free-floated barrel offers improved accuracy at approximately 2 MOA compared with 4.5 MOA for M16A4 rifles.[22]
>>29126936
>>29126955
Okay, well remember my post started with "I know nothing about the m27".
My first deployment I was an m249 SAW gunner. My second a fire team leader with m16.
We never used DM's. The situation never calls for it. Want to know how I was DM? I took note of everyone's scores at the range, I had the highest. I informed them of that fact. Smugly.
Anyway you're going to tell me the 10+ pounds of the weapon allow a man better precision while standing. That's a serious factor on marksmanship.
>>29127093
>Anyway you're going to tell me the 10+ pounds of the weapon allow a man better precision while standing
You realize the M27 isn't an M249, right? It's a totally different weapon. A rifle that weighs less than the M14, in fact.
>>29127110
How much does it weigh?
>>29127093
Better than 22 pounds.
>>29127117
~8.4 lbs with a loaded 30 rounder
Dude read. It's just a heavy piston driven M16.
Just because you can't conceptualize proper doctrine doesn't mean it can't happen.
Fwiw I know a saw gunner in the army that has 600 yd first Rd hits on haji. It's not out of the realm of possibility there either.
Regardless the m27 isn't anything near the saw in weight or capacity. Or firepower for that matter because again, read above.
>>29127127
>>29127136
When I was in they had units that were testing that shit out.
Glad they finally implemented it. The real weight comes with how much ammo you carry.
It's cool you new guys have different weapons, it helps me to become a dinosaur.
>>29127211
Pretty sure your post was directed at me.
But nevertheless link it newfag.
>>29127088
The IAR is great for a dm role. But you cannot replace the suppression of a belt fed weapon with the IAR. For engagements under 300 meters I would prefer the saw any day.
>>29121790
>the mk48 is literally an m240L
How can someone be so fucking wrong and not even have the decency to look up the shit he's spouting online before shitposting? The Mk.48 is not literally a M240L, it's literally a M249 in 7.62x51mm, dipshit.
>>29127088
>muh budgets
why not just buy less 100 million dollar helicopters that cost an arm & a leg to operate? dumb fuckers
>>29125554
So is the military giving everyone burst or single fire?
>>29122106
True, but that's kind of the point. The guy asserted that Marines couldn't afford new 249s because their funding was that minimal, the truth is that they could easily afford them and simply choose to spend the money elsewhere.
They're not avoiding the 249 out of necessity; they deliberately went in a different direction.
>works as DMR
>works as suppressing MG
>works as a normal goddamn rifle
>The M27 is LITERALLY just a heavy barreled HK416
So basically, stop fucking around with your grunts and just issue everyone a proper full-auto assault rifle with a barrel that isn't pencil-thin?
Phew, you'd think they would have figured this out a lot earlier considering this was the original reason why the assault rifle was invented. But instead, everyone went MUH SINGLE SHOTS and MUH PRECISION.
>>29132123
Well to be fair we already tried this once with the M14.
I wonder how many times militaries are going to try this mag-fed LMG shit before they realize its a bad idea.
>>29132800
that's not really a fair statement
also
>stoner 63
