>As of 30 November 2015, the German Army has a strength of 59,553 soldiers.
>>28356558
On paper Finland has a wartime strength of like 300k people but that doesn't mean much.
>>28356558
german army fag here
60k personal not soldiers and its fucking hardly news as we been in less than 70k people for like 10 years now fgt
>>28356797
Wikipedia lists it as soldiers on active service, if it's just personnel that's even worse.
Ive always heard the US Army has 7 support personnel for every combat arms (infantry, armor, artillery) soldier. How about ze Germsns?
>>28356853
we have the americans
>>28356869
p47s, p51s, and b17s are the only thing we should give you
>>28356558
So Germany really shouldn't piss off Switzerland...
>>28356558
Those are all fighting men as we've structured our military in a way that support troops and medics form separate branches called Streitkräftebasis and Zentraler Sanitätsdienst with some 42k and 20k personnel each. Compare that to the British Army with 90k personnel but not a separate support troops or medics branch.
>>28356558
Secret Moon/South American remnant reich when?
>>28356869
Ding ding ding
>>28356778
Active personnel 7,929 military professionals[1]
4,000 civilians[2]
22,000 conscripts
Reserve personnel 230,000 placed in prepared troops
900,000 with training and service obligation[3]
>>28356844
well wikipedia is full of idiots
here is the link
http://www.bundeswehr.de/portal/a/bwde/!ut/p/c4/DcmxDYAwDATAWVgg7unYAugc8kSWI4OMIesTXXm002D8SeWQy7jRStshc-4p94L0hENCnXEGUvXXSuMKG8FwBd26TD9uIZiT/
fuck now that i checked even wikipedia uses this one as their source, so they are not only idiots, but cant translate/interpreter for shit
>>28356558
>>28356797
Would be fine if the fucking traitors that are our politicians wouldn't have abolished conscription over night and dismantled nearly all of our reserves
>>28357646
What do you need an army for ? Europes not going to participate in another war for probably as long as it exists
>>28357646
Getting rid of conscription was a good idea for you guys, promoting the culture of beta-bitch and willful extermination of your own culture was the mistake.
>>28357656
>>28357671
What's wrong with mandatory military service?
>>28357656
Political situations can change WAY faster than you're able to rearm. Not necessarily wanting to hint at an all-out WWII-like war but at several bigger conflicts at once.
Plus economic powers like Germany defintely need a proper army to defend their interests.
We can't just afford having no army (or a barely functioning and ineffective) like a literal-who country like Costa Rica can.
>>28357700
It's mandatory. The "Service for Citizenship" (Starship Troopers) model would probably be something you'd like a bit better, since it's voluntary but still invokes a civic duty of the civilian to serve their country.
>>28357700
Furthermore, requiring mandatory service is an imbalance between the state and it's populace. Give the ability for people who care about their country to serve voluntarily with dignity, instead of brewing a mindset of mild-serfdom among your people.
>>28357700
truly mandatory service for all makes sense.. but if it ends up as a lottery it's an unfair and stupid system.
>>28357731
I can see where you're coming from but I look at military service as a way to get kids who had a shitty lifestyle the guidance and discipline they need to become better men
I feel like if more Tyrones spent a couple of weeks with Gunny they'd really live better lives and come back and be more productive
>>28357731
>>28357700
>>28357671
While I guess it's that there is/was room for optimization in the whole concept I'm under the impression that the abolishment of conscription came faster than the army could handle.
One of it's plusses for example is that it provides you with a constant "flow" of freshly trained reservists.
>>28357602
>More than a million strong finnish army
Winter blitzkrieg when ?!
>>28357775
Then give them incentive to serve. Starship Troopers provides Citizenship (voting rights), so the issue for you guys is understanding why the German people stigmatize military service and shun those who join up. Without good social or economic incentive, you will never have a stable volunteer professional military.
>>28357779
How did conscription work in Germany?
Was it a lottery like the anon said before or did everyone need to do some form of service?
>>28357802
Oh I'm not German I'm American
And even in a starship trooper like setting lower class blacks seem to have no motivation to succeed and work themselves to success nor do they care about voting (which is a fundamental right anyway) so it's just a matter of how the hell do we fix it
>>28357805
Get called to see if you're fit for service.
Choose wiping old peoples asses, social work, or military service.
... only a part of the ones of service age ended up getting called in (lottery) because the state didn't need (wanted to pay) that many people in mandatory service.
Abolishing it made sense in this context.
>>28357779
Maybe a "service year" mandatory for both males and females which could be either fulfilled as military or community service could be a solution.
The would be nothing wrong in my eyes to return something to the country which offers you a lot.
>>28357805
Would it could look like >>28357845
I don't claim that to be the silver bullet though
>>28357843
only males got called in. Although it was possible to do social work if you didn't want to touch a firearm.
>>28357827
Lower class blacks that you're mentioning usually end up serving or never because they wouldn't pass a drug test or background check any day of the week. Poor people enlist all the time, it's just the upstanding ones who give a shit about something who actually do it and make it.
Gangbangers gangbang, and then they die at 29 from a Jennings .25
>>28357858
*What
>>28357845
There should be a nationalism aspect to it but conscripts should also be taught that they are there to protect god given rights to all people and they do not defend the government but the people and that the current government is a means to protect the people but they always need to keep wary of a corrupt state since they would be the puppets in that situation
>>28357845
Country that offers a lot in return for working for it more than half of the year...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day
>>28357860
So you think there's no way to save them?
>>28357800
Tbf a million is a fifth of Finland's total population so the most would probably never be used, but it still serves to point out what kind of a gorilla warfare hellhole the place would become if someone wanted to invade the place.
>>28357894
Dindus work themselves out, it's just Darwinism. You can't save everyone, but you can sure as hell try.
>>28357912
I just want some of that candy Finland makes
What was it called again?
Really popular in nordic countries
>>28357968
Salmiac
>>28357700
>forcing people to join the military
How free
>>28358001
Thank you I always forget the name
>>28358006
Freedom needs to be protected
Hard to protect your freedom if you never get taught discipline or how to fight
>>28358006
>forcing people to go to school
Fuggen gommies!
>>28357802
>the issue is understanding why the German people stigmatize military service and shun those who join up
Yeah, I wonder what might be the reason...
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reeducation
(there's not even an English Wikipedia article on that subject, I kid you not)
>>28358006
Stop being a spoiled whiny bitch. Freedom ain't free.
>>28358006
Germany still sends the police if you don't bring your young children to school in case you don't want them to get sex education that involves getting touched and asked by the teacher "what's your favorite position..." (actual part of the curriculum in a Green-Party run German state)
Abolishing military service wasn't cause of a the believe in personal freedoms... it was because the Green party thinks guns and the military are evil (unlike child molesters that we just need to understand better).
>>28357635
You can correct it yourself
>>28358006
>Forcing people to pay taxes
Dont tread on me desu lad senpai
>>28356558
what a waste of money
>>28358132
>involves getting touched and asked by the teacher "what's your favorite position..." (actual part of the curriculum in a Green-Party run German state)
As deviant and crazy german leftits are I don't believe you. I just can't.
>>28358132
which is complete bullshit that is being said by members of the pegida
>>28358132
>sex education that involves getting touched and asked by the teacher "what's your favorite position..." (actual part of the curriculum in a Green-Party run German state)
what conspiracy site spreads this nonsense?
>>28357700
I don't know I just think not everyone is made for that life, people that dislike having discipline in their life or taking orders will absolutely fucking hate it after going through the military service, not to mention they are going to be shit soldiers if theres some sort of conflict they would be the first ones to drop guns and go fucking home, so you essentially wasted tax money trying to train this person.
Allot of my older brothers friends use to either run away from the mandatory service either abroad or somewhere else, the others use to choose 2 years in prison instead, most of them described it as summer camp where you don't do anything but drink strong tea that tastes like wet socks and smoke tobacco
>Germans think their military is neutered
>They have no idea what's been going on in Eastern Europe for the last 20 years
At least you arent sending your troops to the sandbox with actual AKs model of 1947 and BMP-1 variants.
>>28358255
>mfw bavarian and you watch your values and culture beeing put in the dumpster
>>28358034
Would this be close enough to an english wikipedia equivalent? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification
I also found this PDF https://users.stlcc.edu/rkalfus/PDFs/126.pdf
>>28358006
It works in Finland.
>>28358345
this is pretty muc what it is
its just that the denazification was just after the our defeat, but people keep shunning the military and noone has the courage to say anything right (not even far-right)
>>28358298
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/10312930/Germanys-Green-Party-leader-regrets-campaign-to-legalise-paedophilia.html
Shit it might even be true.
>>28358298
>Bavarian
>Values and Culture
Pick one
>>28358439
preuße
>>28358298
>Kultur
>Bayern
>>28358439
That's a Hauptsturmführer not an Obersturmführer
t. SS expert
P.S.: Bavaria still has more values and culture than the remaining states squeezed together
I've heard that the army are so disliked in Germany that servicemen avoid wearing their uniforms in public as they get abuse or discrimination. Is this true? How can a nation have so little pride in itself, treating it's own soldiers like dirt for serving their nation but cheering on millions of immigrants coming in that they know nothing about?
>>28358507
>Rest von Deutschland
>Kultur
geh mal weg mr. norddeutschland
>>28358518
I went to Austria on exchange program once. There were conscripts in uniform errywhere and I met a General riding the train.
>>28358518
because they are still afraid of beeing called anything even remotely close to nazi
nazi (as word) is currently completely overused, used even for center-right opinions sometimes
>>28358518
Nah that's mostly exaggerated. The majority simply doesn't give two shits about the military and soldiers.
The only ""people"" who might cause trouble are far-left scum vegetating around railway stations in larger cities. Most military bases/units are located outside of large cities.
>>28358345
Well, reeducation was an important part of denazification (the German Wikipedia also has an article on that) but reeducation focused more on schools and what personnel was suitable for teachers and what subjects were suitable for school, what schoolbooks etc. The general article on denazification doesn't really go into that as it covers a much wider range of measures.
But to best explain the deeper resons of Germany's apparent pacifism and punching below its weight for an American point of view I recommend this blog post from a historian, former professor of national security affairs at the U.S. Naval War College and former NSA intelligence analyst:
http://20committee.com/2014/06/22/why-germany-refuses-to-play-a-bigger-role-in-nato/
>>28358518
When I was a conscript and went home for weekend in uniform once I got called a nazi by some approx. ten year old kid. That should give you an idea.
Also this article makes some good and true observations:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/weekinreview/15kulish.html?_r=0
>>28358518
Nationalism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
>>28358031
Sweden and Germany..
>>28358729
As will the north pole be the last refuge for the german when kebabs will remove krauts.
>Just like in 45
>>28358298
>>28358507
>>28358524
>>28358132
>Germany still sends the police if you don't bring your young children to school in case you don't want them to get sex education that involves getting touched and asked by the teacher "what's your favorite position..."
This sounds like some infowars level bullshit here.
>>28359277
Nah it's true. Germany maintains hitler era laws regarding compulsory education. Compulsory education is a socialist thing to begin with...get them young to mold them accordingly.
>>28359351
Average Germans don't even know it's possible to home-school in other countries, they simply assume that sending the police to pick up the children is the normal thing people do all over the world...
If you tell a German about it the reaction will be along the lines of "Bbubububut ... school ... children ... needs .. danger .. force state good, can't compute."
>>28359168
>making shit up to justify military welfarism
standard operating procedure
>>28359441
Where did you learn to troll like that young man ? It is so nicely done I could almost see a real libtard argument going like that.
>>28357800
>>28359498
remove kebab?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lkf_vSzpPU
>>28358438
Nothing wrong with legalising paedophilia whatsoever, it's just a preference. Fuck thought crime.
There isn't anything wrong with possession of CP either.
Neither of the statements above are debatable. What MAY be arguable is prohibiting making, distributing, selling and buying CP. Actually going and sticking it in kids is the part which is questionable (although I don't believe even that is as bad as people claim)
>>28359351
Except national socialism isnt socialism at all, but fascism.
>>28359537
Fascism had social aspects. Just as much as national socialism. They just were thrown in the garbage because a war economy was needed before and during the war.
It's not like the totally state controlled economy in germany was that different from the soviet one anyway.
>>28359496
>implying fearmongering and lies isn't the basis of all militarism
>>28359075
>muh relejus freedumbs
>>28357700
With the voluntary model, you get less shitters who don't want to be there.
(but more shitters who are criminals)
>>28359537
Nah dude it is socialism. It looks different from the outside:
1. socialism normally seeks global dominance
2. national socialism seeks regional dominance
3. socialism owns all property, uses assets at discretion
4. natsoc doesn't necessarily own property, has "asset managers". these are essentially corporations working in conjunction with the state. force is used if non-compliant.
5. socialism creates soviet fascism
6. natsoc creates nazi fascism
It's the same shit, different banner. Both are enabled through coercion.
>>28359629
Not having any military or even the will to have one at all is as bad if not worse because someone will fuck your shit up if you don't. The world would be nice if it was only made of nice people but it doesn't.
>>28359529
What they were campaigning for was legalization of sex with young children.
I'm pretty sure we all agree that a sexual preference if not put into action can't be a crime can't therefor not legalized.
It's unfortunate that people especially in media tend to confuse the word pedophile with child molester... although it's as different as heterosexual-male and rapist of women.
...oh wait, I think I can see a pattern somewhere..
>>28359724
>implying "kebab" will actually take over Germany, ever
>implying the military would actually do anything about domestic matters in Germany to begin with
If you're going to shill for the welfare queens at least come up with a semi-plausible reason.
>>28359758
Unless it is 2D porn as in muh loli doujins children were molested at one point. Banning loli and shota pics is retarded though.
>>28359775
>implying "kebab" will actually take over Germany, ever
How in the world do you expect a country with birthrates so fucking low it loses almost a third of its population with every generation and a policy of replacing it with kebabs to not end ruled by kebabs ? Literally how.
>>28359805
>views German politics through a racial lens
Define "ruled".
>loses almost a third of its population with every generation
see fearmongering, making shit up
>>28359805
Germany is one of the few countries were the householdsize of migrant families is smaller compared to the indigenous.
>>28359871
>views German politics through a racial lens
>Define "ruled".
Verb: ruled, ruling.
to control or direct; exercise dominating power, authority, or influence over; govern:
3/10 made me respond.
>loses almost a third of its population with every generation
>see fearmongering, making shit up
Fertility rate of Germany: 1.47 children born/woman (2014)
It's more than a fucking quarter and shows a constant decline since decades to the point when even Japan will lose less people than germany. And it is no secret that Germany like every other western country with declining birthrates came with a well thought out plan of replacing the loss with new migrants.
>>28359881
Counting every working immigrant from europe not expecting to stay forever into account.
4/10 globally I almost get salty.
>>28357876
>germany
>nationalism
>godgiven rights
I can tell you're not even from europe.
There is a lot of misconception about the Bundeswehr (Bw). The way to change our society from shunning soldiers would be to actually make them realize that their basic objective is to preserve the Grundgesetz ( Constitution) and basic order of freedom and democracy.
Their job is to allow germans to make their own rules within their country. This is what most people do not want to hear, instead they'll go
>muh ebil nazis!
the perfect german soldier is not a patriot, but an idealist.
>>28357894
education. get a high enough educational budget that allows you to keep them off the streets and engaged. For that,you'll need some pretty fucking good teachers - which will only sign up once the pay doesn't suck.
>>28358293
No, instead Germany tells its troops that it's perfectly capable rifle fucking sucks. The Highest officer of the army recently said "I don't mind going on another tour of duty, but if I do, I want a G36 by my side - it's a damn good rifle." and got a lot of applause from other soldiers for that.
>>28358430
Always thought this was stupid. Bring your petty NIMBYism wherever you want so we can discuss it without the AntiFa yelling and throwing bricks at you.
>>28360173
>exercise dominating power
That's not how first world politics works. See: fearmongering.
>Fertility rate of Germany: 1.47 children born/woman (2014)
Do the math and show how that birth rate represents a 1/3 loss of population per generation.
>>28358029
because only welfare queens in the military learn discipline or how to fight.
good fucking lord.
>>28360207
>exercise dominating power
>That's not how first world politics works. See: fearmongering.
Because traditionalist with little to none affection for secularism becoming a major political power won't push for more traditionalism and less secularism. Try being a gay hipster liberal in such conditions.
>Fertility rate of Germany: 1.47 children born/woman (2014)
>Do the math and show how that birth rate represents a 1/3 loss of population per generation.
You need a 2.1 birthrate to simply maintain your population with each generation. It's 0.53 less. For every 1 german right now you'll only have roughly 0.7 german in the next generation. INB4: MUH 3% 30 isn't 33 !
And don't start with "germany won't loose 30% of it's population in 25 years yada yada" of course you won't have 30 millions people disappearing from nowhere but the pyramid age is fucked up beyond hope in that country and when your older people will die your population will shrink like crazy and the only plan they came up with to counterbalance that is mass immigration hoping everyone will magically turn into a liberal blue eyed german who plays work simulators on his computer during his free time.
Why am I even responding to such easy bait on the net is beyond me.
>>28360322
>implying the majority of German immigrants don't adopt German values
Also confirm you can't do math. The average German lifespan is not one generation long. Also populations have a tendency to self-adjust. Even if they don't, a one-third loss of population cannot occur even with *zero* procreation (it would require a massive increase in death rate).
>>28360443
>implying the majority of German immigrants don't adopt German values
i bet you're not german/living in germany
>>28360469
Are you/do you? Or do you just get your news from Pamela Geller?
>>28357968
Vodka
>>28360443
>implying the majority of German immigrants don't adopt German values
https://www.wzb.eu/en/research/migration-and-diversity/migration-integration-transnationalization/projects/six-country-immigrant-int
They don't. They really don't. Muslims in western europe are religious as hell and it gets worse with each generation. Every study known to man shows that integration isn't working like governments hoped it would.
>Also confirm you can't do math. The average German lifespan is not one generation long. Also populations have a tendency to self-adjust. Even if they don't, a one-third loss of population cannot occur even with *zero* procreation (it would require a massive increase in death rate).
Do you have any reading comprehension ? I explained it to you but I will do it again. If your population plummet with each generation in the mid to long term you WILL end with 30% less inhabitants and tons of old people that you'll need to take care of all along. You can somehow sustain even a large decline of population if your pyramid age stays stable, not if a gigantic chunk of your population is made from old people with that chunk getting bigger and bigger with time. So the gamble western countries made was to counterbalance it with mass immigration to fill the holes and hope the migrants will make children instead of their own initial citizens hoping that half of europe wouldn't turn into a gigantic caucasus/balkan/liban. It is working poorly so far.
>>28360597
>it gets worse with each generation
>posts link that shows 2nd generation becoming less religious than 1st generation
https://bibliothek.wzb.eu/pdf/2014/vi14-101.pdf
Integration might not be progressing as the eurocrats planned, but it sure as hell isn't not-working as PEGIDA believes
>Do you have any reading comprehension ? I explained it to you but I will do it again
>original claim is 1/3 loss in one generation
>moves goalposts to "mid to long term"
hurr durr learn reading comprehension
>>28360481
ive been living in southern germany next to the austrian border for my entire life now
>>28360741
So how many immigrants you know joined ISIS?
>>28360666
>Integration might not be progressing as the eurocrats planned, but it sure as hell isn't not-working as PEGIDA believes
With 5% less fundamentalists every generation maybe they'll be integrated in a few centuries. If only the plan wasn't to take in almost a million new migrants each year and start all over again.
>original claim is 1/3 loss in one generation
>moves goalposts to "mid to long term"
It was so obviously obvious that the point was regarding one generation to the next I didn't even bothered to elaborate. Comprehension indeed.
>>28359776
How exactly are you harming said children by looking at their pics though?
>>28360777
ALL OF THEM !
>>28361147
Because by creating a market you create providers. Said providers will plow puffy loli pussies and smooth pink shota boipussies for the viewers' contempt.
>>28361133
>doesn't even know what point you are trying to defend
>it was so obviously obvious
damage control!
>>28361274
>Claiming damage control to control damage
Noice.
>>28361305
Please, try to show how it is possible to lose 1/3 of your population in one generation without increasing the death rate.
>>28361219
Hw exactly are you creating a market by downloading pictures though?
Also not all cp is abusive, you silly clod.
>>28361350
You fucking retard on purpose of course germany won't lose 30 millions inhabitants in 25 fucking years but each generation is 30% smaller than the previous one that was the whole evident point. Stop nitpicking to try to hide the forest behind a single tree.
>>28361358
Because people will either sell it on obscure chans and forums or they'll just camwhore for pleasure. As for it not being abusive I guess gravure idols and stuff is somewhat okayish.
>>28361389
>of course germany won't lose 30 millions inhabitants in 25 fucking years
Ergo the original claim is bullshit fearmongering, typical of militarists and xenophobes worldwide.
>>28361408
If you're paying for it then you aren't just downloading pictures. Besides, you can't really do anything to the biggest offenders.
And kids take pictures of themselves too, did you think of that?
>>28361408
eh, it'll create desire. make it as illegal as possible and these people will get off on the idea. allow them to watch CP vids and pics on the internets and they will want more, to take the next step, to experience this for themselves.
Statistics prove me wrong though, rape has been on the decline ever since porn has become available to the masses on the internets.
>>28361521
You proved yourself wrong so that others don't have to, good job.
>>28361426
It wasn't the original claim at all. Because losing 30 millions habitants in a single generation is impossible unless you are suffering from severe famine or war I thought it was obvious for anyone.
>Heavily declining population
>Fucked up age pyramid
>Replace your 30% loss every generation by migrants
>At no point your migrants become the majority
>They even all turned into aryan working Übermenschen
>World is at peace
>Free guns and coke for everyone in socialist utopia
Every western leftist ever.
>>28356558
That is so low that the police force of a major US city could conceivably take them on, especially given that only a small portion of US police officers are non combatants. Realistically the Heer would be outnumbered 4-1 or greater on the front lines taking on something like the NYC or LA PD.
Sadly the cops would have better small arms and body armor not to mention vastly greater military experience due to the number of Veterans.
>Entire German army invades NYC
>Gets shot resisting arrest
