So what does /k/ think of the Italian Military? Are they any good (do they even do anything)? And how good are their guns, planes, and tanks?
It's all pretty good stuff. They have a very solid domestic arms industry, Finmeccanica, Oto Melara, Iveco, Beretta, Fincantieri, etc, which produces some of the best hardware in the world that their own forces benefit from.
let's just say there's been some stories about the italian military in iraq/afghanistan. they were not good stories.
they might have decent hardware but the people? yeah...
>>28321324
>>28321335
/thread
spaghetti mres
>>28321278
Never leave the Italians in charge of anything, especially the Italians.
They are well equipped, but worthless as a military. They would occasionally release captured Anzac troops in WW2 because they couldn't be bothered watching them (that's not hyperbole, you simply cant take a long lunch if you have to be watching POWs), meaning the Italians actively contributed in Germany losing the war, if only in a small part. During 1993 in Somalia, they would knowingly let wanted Habu Gedr militia leaders and tribal elders through checkpoints because the H-G were willing to pay. In Afghanistan they payed the Taliban to not attack their patrols. When they were relived by the french, they neglected to mention this detail and the french operated under the assumption that the area was thoroughly pacified. With no bribes forthcoming, the Taliban had no reason not to attack, and so a bunch of french troops died. These are just a few examples, they do this shit everywhere they are deployed.
In short, if you need someone to look after an area and the Italians are the only ones available, you are literally better off leaving the place unattended. The are workshy, redefined.
How are the perfomances in WW2 even relevant? It's 70 years ago..
Worked with some on Civvie street and then heard stories with people who had to liason.
>Lazy
>Corrupted
>Petulant
>Well equipped
>Well fed
>All wear a gold chain
>Can not drink for shit.
>>28323376
*Corrupt, not Corrupted like... Chaos-Marines
>>28323365
Their culture has not changed much in 70 years. They are not a fighting people.
>>28323365
Because they haven't changed their attitudes at all. In 70 years the Germans went from the biggest industrial powerhouse to the cucks of Europe. In 70 years the Japanese went from a simple semi-pagan agrarian society to one of the technological word leaders. In 70 years, the Americans went from a relatively inward-looking society unwilling to meddle in world affairs unless necessary to the world police with bases in almost every country. In 70 years the Italians are the same lazy useless faggots they ever were.
>>28321335
Which you could probably apply to every nation out there that wasn't the USA, UK or France. And even then they didn't exactly cover themselves in glory, did they?
Really, what was more embarassing? The Italians paying off the local beards to leave them alone, or American and British generals repeatedly telling their political masters that they could have the whole thing sorted in a few months?
Iraq and Afghanistan were both huge failures and neither could be blamed on the Italians. Hell, if the rest of us had done what they did it wouldn't have turned out any worse.
>>28323376
>>28323383
>Italians have been corrupted by Slaanesh
Suddenly it all makes sense.
>>28323414
>TRACK SUITS FOR THE TRACK SUIT THRONE!
>>28323396
>or American and British generals repeatedly telling their political masters that they could have the whole thing sorted in a few months?
Except this never happened.
The American and British (and French and Canadian and German and Danish...) commanders on the ground were the ones CONSTANTLY asking for more because they knew what it was going to fucking take in the end.
Politicians, as usual, messed up the process.
That said, the story about the Italians paying people off is a near myth thing that has basically no real proof behind it and is reported only from "I heard..." type sources. There's never been any confirmation of it.
>>28323394
That's a lie. Italy went from agrarian society to industrial 1st world country. Yeah i know it's the worst 1st world country, "niggers of europe" etc. But it sure isn't a third world country. Italians "si arrangiano" as they say.
>>28323427
>There's never been any confirmation of it.
Dude, what? The US intelligence community was monitoring communications between the Italians and the Taliban.
There are entire news articles about it.
>>28323396
>Token butthurt wog apologist that shows up in every Italy thread
The Italians willingly joined the coalition. The Italians were asked to do a job as part of the coalition. The didn't do that job and actively funded insurgents in order to avoid doing said job. Both innocent civilians and allied troops died as a result of their negligence. You can get upset and argue about the ethical legitimacy of the COIN operation all you like, but you had a task and you knowing fucked it up. Kill yourself and take the rest of you country with you.
Shifty, light-fingered eyetie detected.
>>28323359
>contributed in Germany losing the war
it took six months for them to try and invade greece...fucking greece. I don't think they were even with the axis, they must of been double agents or some shit
>>28323427
>Except this never happened.
Yes it did. I sat in an ops tent in 2001, and again in 2003, listening to it happening. I have seen it happen first hand. No one in 2003 wanted to know what would happen after the Iraqi army was dismantled, they just wanted to take part in some of the dismantling. Anyone suggesting anything other than smooth, seamless progress after would probably find themselves out of a job. Yes men ruled the roost. In 2001, with Afghanistan, it was even worse but not as widespread as the cavalry/artillery officers hadn't sunk their teeth into it. There was still plenty of bullshit flying around from seasoned SF commanders who thought they were invincible, but weren't.
>commanders on the ground were the ones CONSTANTLY asking for more because they knew what it was going to fucking take in the end.
Wrong, again. Anyone in a position to ask for more had their eyes on the career ladder, so shut up about operational requirements and glaring issues. No one was rocking the boat. No one "on the ground" did anything other than make more promises they couldn't keep.
>Politicians, as usual, messed up the process.
Which is exactly the claim the officers, mentioned above, make to the public who lap it all up. At no point will they admit that they were equally, if not more, to blame.
It wasn't politicians who fucked up capturing Bin Laden in 2001, it was the UKSF (and later others). It wasn't politicians who kept such a loose grip on their guys that they were running criminal operations, it was the staff at the US 3rd Infantry Division. It wasn't politicians who made a complete hash of COIN warfare, despite having a wealth of experience they could have tapped into. Politicians didn't let standards, that were already low, slip so they could make up numbers.
>>28323451
I'm South African, served in the British Army.
>You can get upset and argue about the ethical legitimacy of the COIN operation all you like, but you had a task and you knowing fucked it up
It wasn't Italy who plunged Iraq into civil war, several times, after dismantling its infrastructure and imprisoning/firing anyone with leadership experience. Italy didn't do such a poor job of training the security forces in Afghanistan that the Taliban were able to seize huge swathes of its populated areas in a few weeks.
That, in my view, is far worse than anything Italy may or may not have done.
>>28323488
>It wasn't politicians who fucked up capturing Bin Laden in 2001, it was the UKSF
[citation needed]
>It wasn't politicians who kept such a loose grip on their guys that they were running criminal operations, it was the staff at the US 3rd Infantry Division
[citation needed]
>>28323527
Do you need a citation for the Battle of Tora Bora, or the fact that about half the 3ID was more interested in MS13 than they were the US Army?
>>28323537
There's a difference between "Bin Laden escaped before/during Tora Bora" and "UKSF fucked up and let him escape."
Most sources point to that he got away before it even began during militia truces, and there isn't a shred of evidence to point to any western force.
>or the fact that about half the 3ID was more interested in MS13 than they were the US Army?
That too. Cos right now it sounds a fuck lot like "My dad works for nintendo" levels of "I totally saw this guys".
>>28323488
>It wasn't politicians who fucked up capturing Bin Laden in 2001, it was the UKSF
>Do you need a citation for the Battle of Tora Bora
What the fuck does UKSF have to do with the Battle of Tora Bora. It was CAG and paid LNs assaulting the objective. The CAG commander on the ground said that according to SIGINT they were within 100m of Bin Laden's position.
The LNs turned on CAG and refused to let them go any further up the mountain.
He requested that AP mines be air deployed on the mountain passes to the rear, to prevent people from escaping, and was denied BY WASHINGTON.
You're a fucktard.
>>28323521
to be fair though...afghans are literally retarded unlike the Iraqis, though they were shitheads they were at least were able to understand that sitting with your face in front of an exhaust pipe of a cargo truck is bad for you. A passtime all of the ANP loved to take part in my second deployment when they weren't shooting up heroin.
>>28323394
>technological world leaders
If you call a little girl robot who can give you a handjob and eel-enema simultaneously while calling you senpai, them yes I suppose.
>>28323394
They went from a 1st world country to idiots who sell all their industry to other countries.
>>28321335
>>28323359
Again this thing about paying talibans? It's fucking bullshit, it never happened. There's ONE SOURCE and it's so painly clear it's french trying to cover their incompetence.
>>28323856
>little girl robot who can give you a handjob
Link?Name?Source?
>>28323376
>Can't drink for shit
>Chug Disaronno, Amaro del Capo and Limoncello like champs
HA
And gold is a tamarro/chav thing
>>28324705
I'm just waiting for an Italian version of the "proofs" meme.
The Italian military is shit.
They 100% paid the Taliban, just like they've paid every other group of armed rebels/insurgents.
I'd rather drag my dick through broken glass than have Italians involved in any facet of any operation I'm involved in - because they'd manage to fuck it up no matter how simple it is. Why? Because 99% are lazy, incompetent fucks.
Give me some fucking hard Canadians, Poles, Frogs, any day. Waps, go home.
>>28324964
It's worse, guy
>>28325006
What's worse? Pal.
>>28323521
>>28323521
Apartheid was a hoax.
>>28323856
Want
>>28325015
Wop.
That's what happens when you shitpost with autocorrect.
>>28321278
I've always thought that the Italian gendarmes - i.e. the Carabinieri/Polizia/Guardia de Finaza/whatever - were breddy good. They've had to deal with the Red Brigades, Cosa Nostra, N'gdhratta, Camora, SCU on an on. Yeah there's probably a lot of corruption that goes on but that gives them experience that cops in Germany or the UK or Spain just don't have.
Plus their uniforms are dope
>>28323856
You say that like it's a bad thing, anon
>>28323488
No one on here likes hearing this but it's the truth. The military fucked up just as much as the politicians.
The Italians were worthless from what I've seen.
I was stuck in Bagram back in 2011 for a short while when waiting to get to FOB Joyce. The Italians would wake up in the morning and go suntan on their vehicles outside the DFAC. around noon they'd go eat, then come back for more tanning. Then dinner, and then off to bed. Every day. Never saw a single one work.
>>28323295
Slovenia here. Did a bunch of training with them and all i have is respect. Sure they lost some guys
in Afganistan( i wasnt there< i,m reserve), but they seem top noch as faras Euro army goes. Just my two cents.
>>28324964
>They 100% paid the Taliban, just like they've paid every other group of armed rebels/insurgents.
Just because you keep repeating it, it won't become true.
>>28321278
They are the worst in Europe.
Read up on their performance in WW2. Complete garbage. Can't even defeat African nations armed with spears.
