So, I just built my first raifu based on the the recent posts about 300BLK and went out and bought my first batch of ammo. I bought 3 boxes of Remington UMC 220g subsonic to test out my rifle and when I got home to load the ammo it looked like shit to me.
I've only ever handled pistol ammo, but this box says "factory fresh brass" on the back, but this doesn't look like factory fresh anything to me. The bullets look old and tarnished and have these deep groves in them, the brass looks tarnished and has black sticky shit all over them, and worst of all, almost all of the rounds have a dent in the exact same spot right on the shoulder, which you can see on the second piece of ammo in pic related, which my friend says looks like second fired brass that got dented from hitting the shell deflector on an AR-15 while being ejected.
I called the store I bought it from and they said all ammo sales are final and that I would have to contact the manufacturer.
Is this shit normal or did I just get 60rds of garbage? Why does it say "factory fresh brass" but almost all the brass looks like fired brass? Why are the all the bullets scored with these deep grooves? Why is everything tarnished and has black sticky shit on it?
>Also, 300BLK thread.
>Remington
There's your problem
>>28296500
im not sure why this ammo looks jacked up, but i've shot thousands of rounds of 223 and never had a dented shoulder from hitting the deflector. plus, so much brass is trimmed off, the shoulder is no longer the shoulder.
either way, contact the manufacturer and see what the excuse is
>>28296500
Yeah, that dent is from hitting the deflector, those are definitely reloads. If you can get someone knowledgeable at the store to believe you (not some counter monkey), they may give you a refund.
Only thing I can think of is someone took out the good ammo from the box and swapped in their shitty reloads, probably at the store.
I would suggest opening the box and taking a quick look at the ammo before buying, that's what I do for anything that's not steel case
>>28296546
That's what my friend thinks too, that they were swapped out.
He bought this same ammo too (and a lot more) from the same store too and had the same issue.
It's an online store.
Can anyone say with pretty high certainty that these are reloads? We might have a pretty big scam on our hands and might be able to take this online retailer down.
>>28296500
> Remington umc
>>28296601
As nasty looking and dented as those are, you can basically guarantee they are reloads.
Double check the product page for fine print type shit like "we don't guarantee these are factory fresh" or similar shit. Then buy the exact same ammo in a gun store for comparison. And I mean exactly the same shit.
Don't shoot any of it though. Take pics with time stamps and document. Then talk to a lawyer if you want to do something.
>>28296638
Yeah I get that, It's a budget brand, whatever. I've bought cheap ass pistol ammo in the past and it never looked this shitty.
The point here isn't whether or not the ammo is shitty, it's whether or not these are so poor quality because they're reloads and we have an online retailer engaging in fraud.
>>28296654
There's no fine print anywhere. Box says pic related.
>"First Quality Factory-Fresh Brass"
>>28296694
Whoops, forgot pic.
Fresh from the reloading factory, what's not to get?
>>28296500
remington ammunition always looks like arse. if you want to clean it up a bit buy a tumbler.
>>28296601
I reload, and those look like reloads to me. The dent in the shoulder looks similar to happens to some of the shoulders of 30-06 cases after they come flying out of either my M1 Garand or FN49. The shoulder will get dinged from the violent ejection. A resizing die does not fix dents made into the shoulder, mainly reshapes the neck and the body.
That tarnish looks like corrosion from water contact, which means that the ammo was either improperly stored or that brass range-recovered. When brass develops that type of corrosion, I find that the only way to get it off is with 0000 steel wool and elbow grease.
Are all the headstamps the same? I mean 100% exactly the same?
>>28296694
On the webpage genius. Read their policies and shit.
>>28296720
I mean shit, are you saying Remington "factory fresh" ammo looks as bad as reloads? I have trouble believing that. I mean, most of these cases are dented, have corrosion, and that black tarry shit on the cases.
I'm pretty doubtful any major brand sends out factory ammo in this condition.
>>28296740
The headstamps are all marked R-P 300 AAC BLACKOUT, but some pieces the letters are a bit more worn than others, and there is black gunk in the lettering in some of the pieces.
>>28296753
Any disclaimers of that nature would have to be presented on the box, dipshit.
>>28296500
This is why you open a bix before buying it, or buy a single box to check quality online.
I was at Academy a couple weeks ago buying 9mm, and the first box of Winchester I opened had a round with a cracked case. Split where the bullet seats.
>>28296740
Ultrasonic cleaner, simple green, and water will remove corrosion and residue. It will also patinate the brass, so it will need to be followed by a tumble polish.
I reload .50 BMG (because fuck those prices), and that's my routine. I like my results better than scrubbing, but your mileage may vary.
>>28296799
he bought the ammo online, the reloader may have put reloads in a remington box for shipping
>>28296814
Is patina on ammo brass bad though? On my pistol ammo for CC, I have my defense ammo that I unload when I go plinking, and it has a pretty dark patina after a month or two of being handled. Is this bad? Why?
>>28296799
Not necessairly wise ass. Look here >>28296820
So read the websites policies. Make sure they guarantee that "factory fresh brass" will actually be factory fresh. If they don't have a guarantee that you are getting what you ordered, then you're fucked and can't do shit.
>>28296799
>The headstamps are all marked R-P 300 AAC BLACKOUT, but some pieces the letters are a bit more worn than others, and there is black gunk in the lettering in some of the pieces.
Sounds like reloads. Generally when a box of ammo gets packaged from the factory, the brass they use come from the same lot and will be 100% exactly identical. Sounds like someone just grabbed a bunch of Remington headstamped brass and used them to try to pass off as factory ammo. It also sounds like they didn't even clean the cases as well. 30 minutes in dirty-as-shit media with no polisher in a vibratory cleaner will get most of the crud off.
Even if it turns out these aren't handloads for some god-only-knows reason, the state of the pill is fucked up. You deserve a refund in any case.
>>28296840
The guarantee is right on the box. You have no conception whatsoever what false advertising is do you?
If they say "First Quality Factory Fresh Brass" on the fucking box, that IS a guarantee, unless there is an *asterisk* on that wording with a legal disclaimer ON THE BOX.
They can't sell something advertised on the box and have some disclaimer on their fucking website.
How old are you? 12?
This is basic consumer law, FFS.
>>28296856
if you buy from a reloader they often put their shit in a manufacturer's box and have a disclaimer on their site saying that the box is just for shipping or whatever.
>>28296500
Handloads sold as new.
>>28296847
Uh, I asked if a patina was bad, not if it can be removed.
I don't see any point in removing a patina, it's just an oxidation layer microns thick, I can't imagine how it would possibly affect the performance of the ammo or operation of the gun.
>>28296500
Is this a fun things thread?
Did you guys get any ammo for Christmas (no matter how little)?
>>28296833
Patina gets removed in a tumble polish. Obviously you don't want to do that with live rounds, though.
Patina isn't a huge deal so long as it hasn't risen to the level of corrosion, but when you fire the round some of that patina layer will be freed by heat and kinetic energy. That ends up dirtying your gun faster than totally clean rounds would, so you need to clean more often.
So, not a huge deal but if I'm going through the trouble of loading I want to have the best possible round when I'm done so I always tumble polish.
You might want to just shoot your carry ammo when you go to practice and rotate new rounds in.
>>28296833
Patina after handling brass a lot is normal. The oils from your fingers will cause some slight surface corrosion, it's normal. Humidity may also cause it too. As long as the powder does not get contaminated the ammo is fine. The brass may just be unusable for reloads some years down the line though, that's about it. The issue with OP is that brass fresh from a factory should not look like that.
>>28296871
Yeah, sorry /k/omrade, submitted before I was done.
See >>28296887
>>28296814
I don't own a supersonic cleaner. I'm a cheap bastard.
>>28296907
http://www.harborfreight.com/ultrasonic-cleaner-3305.html
OP post the retailer you got it from. maybe they are a store that has a shooting range and are reloading brass from their own firing line. or maybe they have a dishonest employee in their ranks they dont know about, who is selling new ammo then replacing it with reloads
>>28296856
Jesus fuck you are dense. I said the webpage. He bought from a website. That means Remington guarantees don't mean shit unless the OP can clear the online dealer first. If it wasn't the online dealer THEN you can go to Remington and lodge your complaint with them. Fucking hell.
>>28296856
Holy shit, how goddamn retarded are you? OP didn't order this shit straight from Remington.
>>28296935
this OP. post the exact webpage you got it from. link please
>>28296925
OP here
Here's another picture showing how almost every case has a dent in the same spot on the shoulder.
I just can't imagine any name brand factory selling ammo in this condition? Anyone else EVER seen this from Remington?
>>28296866
>>28296935
Here's the place my and my friend bought our ammo, I see no disclaimers anywhere about reloads though.
>http://vizardsgunsandammo.com/rem-umc-300blk-220-otmfb-20/
Maybe this retailer is engaging in fraud and needs to be taken down. I'm completely willing to sue the shit out of these fuckers if they're swapping ammo.
>>28296799
>I mean shit, are you saying Remington "factory fresh" ammo looks as bad as reloads? I have trouble believing that. I mean, most of these cases are dented, have corrosion, and that black tarry shit on the cases.
>I'm pretty doubtful any major brand sends out factory ammo in this condition.
Remington doesnt care one bit about final finish on their cheap bottom of the line ammunition thats why it is cheap, it will shoot just fine.
I bought the same type, both supers and subs of Rem .300 Blk from Academy a couple weeks ago. These boxes had small strips of tape on the flaps, which is the first time I've seen that. Although they also have adhesive on some boxes. So maybe some is tampering with then.
>>28296967
I have bought rem .243 80gr psp that had split necks dented shoulders and some were even coke bottled. Its rubbish nothing but rubbish.
>>28296974
I just bought these boxes of ammo from Gander Mountain in TN like an hour ago.
The UMC box has tape on one side of it.
>>28296876
>>28296967
With the slightly better picture, those look more like reloads. The crimp on them looks like they've been through a crimp die, looks like an RCBS crimper, maybe Lee.
If not reloads, it looks like someone manually cycled them through a rifle. So it's either advertising fraud or some form of tampering.
>>28296967
>Image may not be the actual representation
Doesn't say it's factory fresh on the page either.
Their terms and conditions page also notes they waive all warranties to the fullest extent they legally are allowed.
In short, you're probably screwed OP. Just gonna have to suck it up and not buy from them. I'd recommend doing a product review and pointing out that you got reloaded ammo, not factory fresh ammo on the page for your ammo. That way others will hopefully see it and avoid a bad vendor.
>>28296967
post these pictures and explanation on their facebook and yelp page,
call them on phone and demand exchange or keep ammo but get refund/discount
>pic related is kit without the 30 round mag
>link related
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184688
Since this is a .300 Black Out thread, I have a question, /k/. I've found several Galil SAR parts kit (.223/5.56x45, used, good condition, magazine not included*) for around $369.95 online( I'm willing to buy it around January). What I'd like to do is convert it for .300 Blackout but I don't know how. In the ak files forum, someone managed to do it by changing the original barrel from an AR and by adjusting the gas port by 4mm. Problem is that I don't want to fuck up the gun in the process, are there any alternatives?
>>28297093
Correction, pic related is the kit with 30 round mag for $375.
>>28297031
Thanks. Just so I'm clear, factory rifle ammo shouldn't have that crimping ring mark on the rim? Is that a definite sign this brass has been reloaded?
>>28297040
You're a fucking idiot. The Vizards link advertises Remington ammo. Period. How fucking dumb are you that you think caveat emptor means that companies can just sell completely fucking fraudulent products? Goddamn, you're a total fucking imbecile. Maybe you even work for Vizards. I can't believe someone would be such a fucking moron that you'd think they can just sell whatever the fuck they want inside a Remington box and be A-OK.
Goddamn you're fucking stupid.
>>28297058
Fuck that, if they're swapping ammo I'm taking them to court and suing then for fraud and getting their company shut down. I'm not a poorfag, I can absolutely destroy this company, and WILL if this is reloaded ammo.
Mark my fucking words, this very well could be the end of this company and people might be going to prison, since this is interstate commerce and would be a federal felony.
>>28297040
I believe their Terms and Conditions page refers to the functions of the website, not the products they sell. Last time I checked if a merchant advertises a product, sells said product but it is in fact something else, then claims it is the product even though it isn't, that's fraud.
>>28297102
>vengeance boner activate
>>28297093
>are there any alternatives?
Yeah, quit being a fucking faggot and build an AR with a 300BLK barrel...
>>28296657
You see, the problem here isn't that you bought cheap ammo, it's that you bought the literally worst brand of cheap ammo. For the price and quality, I'd rather just run Tula out of my handguns. Never tried their rifle ammo, but now at least I know...
>Remington
>Not even once
Send a note to the retailer that they need to polish their reloads
>>28297117
Nah faggot, pretty much certain these are reloads. I've never seen or heard of Remington UMC having issues like this ever.
This is fraud.
>>28297114
>AR
That's the problem, they're shitted on by my government and DI isn't suitable in my tropic environment where the nearest shop is 5-10 miles away, I'm surrounded by unpaved roads and wildlife, and there's fucking Saharan desert dust particles in the air every day. Plus I prefer AK variant weapons over AR.
>>28296500
Know what you do?
You contact the manufacturer and show them pictures of the fucking ammo. If the manufacturer tells you that their fresh rounds look nothing like that and they don't reload, you tell that store you bought them from that Remington or whoever it is you bought it from stated it isn't their ammo, and that they sold you reloads.
Reloads that could destroy your firearm and harm or kill you.
What online store was this btw?
>.300BLK thread
In
>people are actually arguing in this thread about whether or not OP should contact the manufacturer or if the store should be covering this.
Holy fuck. When did being a consumer meant to accept whatever fucking piece of shit was sold to you and to love it?
No fucking wonder companies are thriving on selling the consumer shit products
>>28297102
Since I do not have a different box of Remington 300 Blackout 220gr OT FB (what I assume from the link given) to compare your pic to, I cannot fully confirm for you. However, I use an RCBS die set for 7.62x54R, and I put a heavy crimp on the last set of ammo I did, like an idiot. The crimp looks very similar to the ones in the pic provided. I wouldn't use the crimp ring as proof until you can get some hobo here to compare to another batch of Remington 300 Blackout. as it's easily dismissable. It is very suspicious though.
>>28297265
Look at the neck. It was re-tooled. This is reloaded ammo.
>>28296840
>If they don't have a guarantee that you are getting what you ordered, then you're fucked and can't do shit.
I don't think that's how it works
>>28297263
I think we're trying to determine if the ammo is reloaded ammo and has been falsely advertised and sold, or if Remington UMC ammo is shittier than we originally thought. I don't have high regard for UMC ammo, but what is in OP's pic is disconcerting.
>>28297232
Yeah I already tried to contact Remington but they're shut down until Jan 4th with no one to take calls or answer email.
Vizards also aren't answering their phone.
>>28297274
>>28297296
Goddamn I'm fuming mad.
If these are reloads sold as new, over state lines, I wonder if that's the jurisdiction of the FBI or the ATF or both.
Either way I'm going to shove a motherfucker's metaphorical face in the dirt over this.
>>28297274
I believe it's reloaded ammo, but there's always a small part of my brain that will not stop being devil's advocate. I err on the side of caution because of it. It's been beneficial in some cases.
I've never shot any UMC .300, but I've shot a decent amount of their other pistol and rifle ammo and have never seen anything that looks like this shit.
>>28297040
I would recommend this. Legal action is a tremendous time sink, and the only ones who make money off it are the lawyersteins.
If this is a consistent practice for this company, they will not be in business long anyway, particularly if you and other dissatisfied customers put out the word about them
>>28297296
They're reloads according to the neck. See where the brass is necked? It should be blackish there with new ammo. If this ammo was tumbled to remove the black ring, then why is the brass dirty all over? Because it wasn't tumbled. There are also deflector dinged rounds in that pic.
On top of this, you can also check the primer color. Sometimes it helps to determine if a round was reloaded.
Also look at the far lest 2 rounds. You can tell that brass was trimmed around that edge.
>>28297324
now now, stay calm. When you let your emotions control your actions, you will make errors. Those errors will probably cost you. You still need to compare it another batch of ammo just to be sure. Maybe there's a local retailer that carries the exact same ammo?
Something else I thought of, if my memory is serving me correctly. Don't both sides of Remington ammo boxes have a little dot of adhesive to attach the main flap to one of those little side flaps? It may be something to look into just to confirm ammo may have been tampered. Unfortunately, with the holidays being tomorrow, you won't be able to do anything for the next couple days.
>>28297380
>On top of this, you can also check the primer color.
There are primers that are different colors within the same box. Some primers are silver but most of them are golden colored. Is this normal?
If not, then I think we're looking at an open and shut fraud case.
>>28297380
I know, but see here.
>>28297325
I hate my brain sometimes.
The more I look at OP's pic, the middle cartridge. There's a ding at the case mouth. That definitely should not be there.
>>28297419
That is not normal and a sign of reloads. Ammo new from Remington, Winchester, etc. will all have the same color. It will be uniform with the color of the brass.
They sold you reloads. Take a picture of the primer side of those rounds. If they are indeed different colors than each other, you have their fucking asses by the ball hairs.
>>28297419
Remington primers should be gold colored. All the primers should be gold colored. There should be no difference in anything if they came from a factory, as they should be from the same lot, and the lot will all be the same.
>>28297324
If they're manufacturing ammo without the proper license, the ATF will be inside them in short order.
The fraud thing isn't FBI worthy.
>>28297451
>>28297480
Here, I took a much more detailed picture with my DSLR.
You can see there are two silver colored primers.
Each box seems to have 2-3 silver colored primers.
Goddamn these fuckers are going to regret falling out of their mother's filthy cunts!
>>28297645
Fuck, so mad I forgot pic. Goddamn.
Send off an e-mail to Remington and let them know that someone is selling shitty reloads as their product. Let their lawyers handle it.
>>28297117
I've bought boxes Rem UMC pistol ammo before, and the cases were all polished, with no visible damage anywhere on the cartridges. No modern company releases ammo like in OP's pic, those cases are clearly untumbled.
>>28297654
Yep, something is definitely not right, and that thing is that that is not factory ammo. Even looking at the rims that ammo has been through an action and ejection. However, to err on the side of caution, I would contact Remington at the first opportunity to confirm that the lot should not look like that. That way when vizardsguns tries to backtrack or bullshit you, you have the confirmed word of a large corporation backing you up. If you want to destroy them, be vindictive, knowledgeable, and absolute.
>>28297687
>>28297719
This. Remington will go apeshit on the company if they find out they're marketing shitty reloads as Rem factory ammo, and they have a very well-funded legal department. Unless OP has lots of money and time for a lengthy court battle, it's easier to let the corporation do the work. Downside is no potential payout at the end of it.
>>28297719
I hope for their sake there's a middleman between them and Remington that is actually responsible.
I can't find any reviews about them being shady, so at this point I'm willing to consider perhaps there's a middleman conducting the actual fraud.
>>28297761
Well it fucking sucks because Remington has no one available for customer complaints until Jan 4th. Fucking sucks.
>>28297775
Good things come to those who wait. It's also much more enjoyable to watch people get blindsided when they think they're safe and they shit their pants.
>>28296887
There is nothing wrong with tumbling live rounds. Check yourself.
>>28297719
I;ve used a box of Remington 223 green and white box 50 round bulk pack that had different primers on the rounds. I bought the ammo from Bass Pro and the cardboard was sealed with the glue still. The cases looked clean but it did have different primers.
Now onto the brass looking shitty. I've purchased a few hundred rounds of 762x51 175smk FGMM. At 22-25$ a box of 20 these look much worse than yours. None of the rounds have dents in them, but they look much more tarnished along the brass and bullet. I've still shot sub moa at 400yds with the ammo. I would contact them though because of all the dents. May get a couple free boxes from them, who knows.
>>28296500
>>28296967
>>28297654
even my reloads don't look that bad
Your an idiot, Remington buys the Ammo from Barnes .... It's good Ammo, fire it and if you have malfunctions then be worried
>>28301500
>Says ammo is good
>didn't read the thread
Good job, jackass. Thanks for your worthless as fuck opinion you pulled out of your vagina.
>>28301500
What the fuck, are you retarded? Remington UMC is produced by Remington, not Barnes. Even though they're all owned by Freedom Group, Barnes makes Barnes-brand ammo.
Anyways,
>cases dented to shit
>bullets with fucking gouges on the ogive
>good ammo
>>28297654
Dude ive bought tons of remington ammo from walmart and they all had different primer colors in the same box. Your shit is obviously reloads but im just saying thats not out of the ordinary for cheap remington ammo
>>28296974
sometimes when i buy from academy they will tape all of the boxes shut and to each other box for shipping
>>28297102
You ignorant mong. What I was saying is there is absolutely no guarantees that you are getting what you paid for. They note that the picture(s) shown may not be what your product actually looks like and they won't do dick all if your order is fucked up (the warranty part of their terms and conditions).
>>28301844
LOL, you are literally the dumbest fucking retard I've ever seen on /k/ by a gigantic fucking light year.
Seriously, no one on this board, in the thousands of threads I've read, has ever, EVER been as much of a fucking dead weight retard as you.
You deserve some kind of participation prize.
I am, without exaggeration, utterly astounded that people like you exist and are still capable of operating a computer.
That, or you're working for Vizards.
Either way, end your life.
>>28301609
Actually the new UMC ammo is only packaged by remington everything else is barnes, i just picked up about 200rds of 120gr "UMC" all with barnes headstamps.
>>28296967
Vizards is switching out the new ammo they get from Remington and giving you shitty reloads, while they keep the new stuff. Never buy from Vizards.
>>28301844
You cannot escape fraud charges with a clause in the TOS that says "product may not be as shown". This phrase normally applies to "reasonable" examples, like a bag of apples or a box of cereal, where the goods have inherent variation in them. But when you buy a steel framing hammer (labeled as such) and they intentionally send you one made of rubber, that is most certainly fraud and every single court on the planet will rule it as such.
OP bought factory Remington UMC ammo. He received reloaded ammo in a factory box. This is fraud, cut and dried. There is literally nothing the company can do to weasel out of it, except by saying it was a mistake and OP was sent a box of reloads erroneously.
>>28296500
you're a noob
that's actually how dirty ammo is when it comes from the factory
the only reason when you buy ammo that looks nice, is because they clean them before boxing
sometimes to save money, they don't clean them before boxing
you must be a new funz owner
nice choice of 300 tho, you will be happy
although, you bought sub sonic rounds without a can, which further displays how noob you are
total waste of money to shoot subs without a can, cuz supers are cheaper
>>28296601
>>28296654
>>28296500
>>28296705
WHAT WEBSITE FAGGOT
>>28302971
Did you even read the thread?
>>28296967
stop payment on the card you used to buy it, they will have to pay the chargeback fee and you keep the ammo and your money.
>>28302974
no lol
>>28302932
>that's actually how dirty ammo is when it comes from the factory
No, it fucking isn't. Brass comes new from the factory, so it's shiny to begin with. And it certainly doesn't have shell deflector dents in the shoulders, nor do the bullets look like someone's taken a machete to them.
Vizards pls go.
>>28296500
>remington
shit nigger what the fuck are you doing
>>28303136
It's like they're trying to do the wave.
