Bullpups are best
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
So we are all in Agreement then?
Seriously, how can you justify having such a long cumbersome efficiently designed rifle when you can have a tactical bullpup?
>>28292276
Ejecting round close to your face is pretty dumb in design. And most of us were trained on non-bullpup rifles so it would seems weird to hold one, let alone shoot one accurately.
>>28292300
The brass in the face can be solved by a brass deflector, which you can buy aftermarket for many bullpups for like, $15. And your obsolete training is not a reason to continue using obsolete technologoy.
I love my bullpups too but...well I'm left handed so that doesn't really work out very well
It shoots when I pull my boogerhook far enough back into the bangswitch
Good enough for me, both designs do this
>>28292318
Meh I say everyone should have one bullpup but in a fight, use what you are good at. I tend to think of bullpups as something that should be handled after the person is trained on "outdated" tech, ya know.
>>28292276
>universally trash-tier triggers
I like good triggers, because I like shooting well.
This is far harder to do with a bullpup because their triggers feel like trying to drag a jonboat uphill across gravel with a bungee cord.
>>28292276
Tavors are good.
>>28292339
Is that a motherfucking modified SAR 21?
>>28292357
Yeah, but I know there's some people who do trigger jobs for AUGs and tavors and they help quite a bit. But the trigger is the main problem of all bullpups
>>28292276
I don't like the balance. I have to have it gripping my body with the stock. I usually don't hold a rifle that tight. I prefure the weight to be balanced on my off hand not somewhere between my hands and my body. And from a semplicity of enginering perspective a bolt action is almost sex.
>>28292276
>I just love ejecting hot brass onto my face and supporting arm if I ever have to switch to off hand
There, I fixed your post
>>28292276
>>28292276
Maybe aesthetically
Performance wise, they have pros and cons just like every other platform.
on a side note, is there an actual word for non-bull-pup? like mag in front of grip? sorry i'm retarded
>>28292357
>>28292398
This, the triggers are a problem that are rapidly being fixed.
>>28292399
Keeping the center of balance as close to your center of balance as possible makes it easier to manage recoil.
>>28292403
Again, brass deflectors exist and are super cheap.
>>28292276
>>28292276
.
>>28292424
>brass deflectors exist and are super cheap
So I should spend money to fix a design that inherently is wrong? for what, literally no benefits over an AR platform.
>inb4 muh overall length
Who the fuck cares
>>28292276
I wanted a Tavor until I picked one up.
I dont want a 75lb rifle.
>>28292494
>$15 is a problem
How do you buy ammo?
>I enjoy weapons being bulky and cumbersome
.
>>28292494
I have an M1a with a 22" barrel, I care
>>28292276
>>28292276
>>28292512
>>28292454
Hey remember that guy who turned his ak into an l85. Yeah lets do that
So I know AR15s and AKs are the two big boys in conventional tactical rifles. What are the contenders for go-to fighting bullpup?
>>28292526
>>28292398
A masterfully done trigger job on an AUG takes it to abour M16 USGI-tier.
AKA, still shit. Just slightly less shit.
The drop in trigger for the Tavor is also still shit, considering who makes it.
Super Sabra Tavor trigger
>3.5-5.5lb pull
>$350
vs, say, the SSA-E from the same company
>3.5lb or less pull guaranteed by company
>$240
or, say, the NM trigger by the same company
>1.8-3.2lb pull, user adjustable
>$279
>>28292546
Fucking this.
>spend $1500-3000 on rifle plus $300+ on aftermarket trigger
>end up with slightly shorter but bulkier rifle with worse trigger pull than $600 AR
>>28292536
AUG, Tavor.
RFB for real nato but its Keltec trash.
KSG for shotgun but its okish Keltec trash.
P90 for meme ammo
>>28292595
AUG vs Tavor, advantages/disadvantages. Go.
>>28292424
>market $2000 rifle
>use an ALL FUCKING PLASTIC trigger group
>hey you can kinda-sorta fix the horrible trigger that resulted from being made entirely from plastic if you spend another quarter of the cost of the rifle on a replacement metal trigger group!
>oh, this also voids your warranty
For what bullpups cost they should be a fuckload better than they are. There is literally no excuse to have an all-plastic trigger group (looking at you FN).
>>28292540
>DICKFONDLER
>OFF
>THE
>BLATSWITCH
He is dishonor to famiry. Notice everyone is not looking at him in this photo. Everyone has suddenly looked away. Even 'ol creamsuit over there would rather end up exposing his face on a Korean comics board like this one then admit that he looked at the man who fucked up with a smile.
>>28292276
>tfw I'll be able to pay off my RFB soon
Soon my /k/omrade
>>28292605
One is prettier, one is better.
>>28292631
Very objective assessment.
>>28292640
what would make a rifle "better" to you? The AUG is those things.
Is the AUG ugly? yes. So the Tavor is prettier.
>>28292614
>>28292605
>AUG pro's
light
40rd factory mags
muh history
not actually made in the country that uses them the most
>AUG con's
ass-heavy=follow-up shots measured in geological epochs, even on semi
zero aftermarket
no STANAG compatibility (not counting the made-for-US-market clone)
integrated optic is barska-tier, iron sights have horrible sight radius
about as non-lefty-friendly as humanly possible
>Tavor pros
STANAG compatibility
barest hint of an aftermarket
cheapest bullpup at $1400ish
>Tavor cons
even shorter sight radius than AUG
horribly inaccurate for no apparent reason (AK tier bad)
Still doesn't play well with lefties
Early models had oddball muzzle threading, which means zero compatibility with current-market MD's (has since been standardized to 1/2x28)
>winner
literally any AR, any premium AK, SCR, mini14, etc.
>>28292605
The tavor apparently has a real problem with its mag release. If you move your wrist too close to the ever so sensitive mag release it will drop the mag right out of the gun. The trigger is horrible, even worse then the AUG imo. It is ugly as sin. You can aim it at a wall 10m away, shoot and you will still not be able to see the hole. Blah blah blah muh tacticool space weapon...and its made by Jews
I like the idea of bullpups but not any particular execution of it yet. The RFB comes pretty close - forward ejecting and good trigger, but fails in the reliability department.
I don't even know who's trolling so anymore.
>brass shooting out near your face
Guys..
>>28292717
How many rounds have you put through your RFB?
>>28292726
why did you post a boat in a weapons thread?
>>28292702
>made-for-US-market clone
You mean the MSAR? Or the actual STANAG compatible semiauto AUG made by Steyr?
I bet you faggots don't even FAMAS
>>28292702
Isn't there AUG furniture that you literally just drag and drop the AUG guts into and it takes STANAGs?
>>28292746
was thinking the MSAR.
Forgot about the STANAG version of the AUG, they're too rare.
>>28292735
Boat or not its the comfiest rifle ive ever held. And no brass face.
>>28292754
What gun is that?
>>28292276
Why are they called bullpups and not Bulldogs?
>>28292775
AR47
>>28292758
>They're too rare.
>My argument was factually wrong but I'll just pretend I'm still right.
>>28292780
I am actually curios about this.
>>28292780
Because bullpups are cute. Wagging their little tails all happy and shit. Dawwww.
>>28292771
I owned one for a while and hated everything about it.
>rifle is too thick
>trigger is pure mush, and heavy mush at that
>trigger is inconsistent on pull weight and break point
>integrated irons are dogshit
>liked to doublefeed, even with premium brass-cased ammo (Black HIlls redbox, FGMM)
>clearing doublefeeds required total disassembly of gun
>wasn't all that accurate (FGMM and Black Hills new-manufacture 69gr SMK's wouldn't go under 1.5" @ 100m)
>plastic chamber-observation door cracked twice in under 1200 rounds of being babied at a range (repaired under warranty both times)
>plastic chamber-observation door pulls the shit out of beards
>sling attachment points are pants-on-head tier
>shit constantly got in the (plastic) FCG pack and dicked with trigger pull/prevented firing
>plastic FCG would flex during insertion and extraction, snagging on things and being difficult
>muzzle device is (at least on mine) pinned and welded
>gasblock selector had "eventually dribble brass out" and "won't cycle" settings
>gasblock selector required hulk hands to move
>plastic safety would hang up and not work
>plastic safety would lift off its pins and prevent trigger from returning fully forward
All in a $2300 rifle.
Every. Bullpup. Thread.
>triggers are bad!
Not an issue in new designs
>ejection
Not an issue in new designs
>bulky/heavy
Not an issue in new designs
Every time bullpups are mentioned people bring up all the flaws that older designs had regardless of the fact that newer designs like the RDB, MDR, and M17S address some or all of them. It's fucking annoying
>>28292832
>triggers not being bad is no longer an issue in "new" designs
>newest bullpup actually on the market has worst trigger
uh huh
>>28292827
But that one bullpup I held 10 years ago was bad, so they're all bad.
Is it bad I want an RFB so I can do this to it?
>>28292832
>newer designs like the RDB, MDR, and M17S address some or all of them
>hey these prototype guns not currently available for purchase might maybe kinda fix some of the problems that have plagued literally every bullpup rifle ever made
>>28292846
Meant for >>28292832
>>28292827
Damn son.
>>28292492
best bullpup
>>28292846
>hey I didn't like getting raped by niggers the one time I was raped by niggers
>guess I'd better continue getting raped by niggers to make sure getting raped by niggers is still bad
>>28292511
>being a manlet
Tavor owner here:
I wanted the shortest possible rifle, without filing NFA paperwork. With a Tavor you get a full 16 inch barrel with only a 26 inch overall length. It is shorter than most AR-15 SBR's.
I am very pleased with my Tavor now, but it did have some issues out of the box. First, the left hand ejection port leaked gasses that burned your eyes. A $20 Midwest Industries cover plate solved this issue forever. Second, the factory trigger was way too heavy. Felt like a long 12lb pull. I fixed this with the Geissele Super Sabra Trigger and Lightning Bow. It is an awesome rifle now, although it was expensive.
Some myths about the Tavor:
1. Too heavy. Not much heavier than an AR or AK. Feels heavier because it is much more compact than traditional rifles. The rear heaviness of the rifle allows you to shoulder it for long periods of time.
2. Too easy to hit mag release. You must deliberately activate the trigger-style mag release. In all of my time shooting the rifle, I never inadvertently dropped my magazine.
3. Not accurate. More reliable than an AK, not quite as accurate as an AR-15. I get pretty consistent groups of 1.5 MOA. This is perfectly fine accuracy for man-sized targets in urban environments up to 3-400 yards away.
4. Complex disassembly. Some on /k/ have claimed the Tavor is difficult to disassemble. You can field strip the rifle in maybe 5 seconds. The Tavor is literally as easy as an AK to take apart.
5. Poor Reliability. The Tavor is a very reliable piston driven weapon. I see not indications that the Tavor is unreliable in any way.
6. Too expensive. The Tavor costs about as much as a high end AR-15. Even when you add an aftermarket trigger pack, the Tavor is still less than a SCAR 16. Proprietary rifle designs will always be more expensive than open source designs like the AR-15.
>>28292832
What does the M17S address? It's as normal as a bullpup can be and the newer builds are still the old design but with an aluminum lower and some rails
>>28292832
Disclaimer: never shot or handled a bullpup so opinion can be thrown out the window...
Every review I watch and read of any bullpup rifle says the trigger is so-so. Makes sense to me since the mechanism seems to require more travel than something with the trigger group located right above the trigger (i.e. AR-15, M1 Garand, or almost ever bolt action rifle.)
>>28292827
>gasblock selector had "eventually dribble brass out" and "won't cycle" settings
Just in case you didn't know, the FS2000 is designed to simply push the spend cartridges into a channel, falling out as they get pushed by more cartridges.
>>28292874
>leaked gasses that burned your eyes
If I wanted something that cost a shit ton, burned me with gas and had shit to do with jews. I would buy a chamber at auschwitz. No thank you. Keep your space shotgun away from my tack driver!
>>28292912
Yeah.
Okay, that was poorly phrased. Lemme re-phrase.
>gasblock selector had "works fine for the first 5 rounds, until the 6th piece of brass gets bound up on the first 5 still in the chute because they're dumped in the chute with zero force" and "won't even cycle the first round fully"
I'd have to tip the muzzle down every 5-6 shots on the supposed "austere conditions" setting to clear the channel of backlogged brass, and I had to manually open the cover to the brass chute. The rifle, when fired repeatedly when held anywhere close to level, did not put enough force on the brass to push it all the way down the chute and certainly not with enough force for even a whole stack of them to pop open the dust cover.
The normal setting simply would not cycle anybody's factory ammo. It took 3, 2-month-long returns to FN before they acknowledged the problem and installed a new gas block.
The rifle, over the course of the 4 years I owned it, went back to FN 7 times. I had it in my possession less than 2 years, it spent over half the time I officially owned it back for warranty work.
>>28292874
Tavor owner Part 2:
7. Ejects brass into your face. Even when shooting left handed, my right-handed Tavor does not eject brass in my face. This is really only an issue when shooting weak Wolf ammo. There is a small deflector plate that directs spend casings away from the shooters face.
8. Not ambidextrous. The Tavor allows you to swap the location of the changing handle, ejection port, and safety selector. Converting the rifle to left handed use requires only a replacement bolt. Left handed versions are available from the factory.
9. Awkward rail height. Simply buy optics mounts that give you a lower 1/3rd sight picture for an AR-15. Lower 1/3rd mounts will give you an absolute co-witness with the Tavors built in tritium BUIS.
>>28292948
But was it fine after that? I haven't heard much in the way of trouble for this rifle outside of now, but perhaps its because its relatively expensive and rare.
>>28292970
>>28292948
Some more explaining.
>integrated sights are dogshit
Front post is fatter than an AR's, which is already plenty fat. Has a glossy finish, meaning it's useless in full sun. Rear integrated flip-up sight doesn't stay put as it's on a fairly loose detent, and is completely non-adjustable. I have no idea what the factory zeros with, I shot everything from 40gr Vmax to 77gr SMK's and everything in between, nothing was even close (though it was more or less centered left to right). FSP didn't have enough elevation adjustment to do a 100m zero with 55gr M193, and just barely enough with 62gr M855.
>>28292990
Yes, after 7 trips and 2.1 years back at the factory it finally was "working as intended". It still wasn't very accurate, and I fully expect the schmuck I sold it to had the chamber-observation door crack on him again. It also continued to completely refuse to even chamber any steel-cased ammo (tried with wolf, tulammo, brown bear, silver bear, and herter's), I figured this was a mag issue so tried over 30 (admittedly used) USGI STANAGs and a NIB HK high reliability mag and had the same issue with mags that worked fine in my AR's.
>>28292942
Edgy bro
>>28292775
Idk I think it's an ak47
>>28292735
Fucking Cubans have access to the Web now?
The Tavor is better for lefties, as you can change the ejection side (AUG can too) but you can also change the charging side (AUG can not).
This simple fact, IMO, puts it ahead of all other bullpup rifles bar the F(S)2000, but behind the RFB and RDB
>>28292995
Politics belong on /pol/ faggot.
>>28292884
For the points he mentioned, specifically the trigger.
>ITT some people bitch about bullpups
Bullpups make great, compact patrol style rifles (ie non CQB rifles) that would be used in a variety of roles.
Standard, short barreled rifles are great for that special operations door kicking bullshit where speed, accessibility and modularity are important.
If I were to send someone to patrol sparsely populated rural areas, deserts or mountain ranges? I'd give them a Bullpup.
If I were sending someone who is going to go door to door and likely have actions where fractions of seconds count? I'd give them an M4.
Basically, if you are going to issue someone a full length M16 you are way, way better off with the bull pup.
If you are doing to issue someone a 10 inch M4 or MP5, well, keep issuing those
>>28292276
Because bullpup is a gimmick.
Really want a Tavor. I think they are really cool. The problem is that I just can't bring myself to spend that kind of money on a 5.56 rifle. It's a major turn-off when you see how comparatively cheap you can get an AR- or AK-pattern rifle. In that light, I feel that as a regular civilian, the rifle is more for mallninjas trying to play operator.
>>28292704
cool. show us timestamped pic of your tavor
>>28292874
>4. Complex disassembly. Some on /k/ have claimed the Tavor is difficult to disassemble. You can field strip the rifle in maybe 5 seconds. The Tavor is literally as easy as an AK to take apart.
For the most part I like my Tavor and haven't had any problems with it, and you're right about the field strip, but the detail strip is a pain in the ass. If you want to clean the shit off the trigger transfer bar with the factory setup you have to drill out the insert fasteners because they threadlock the hexscrews and strip em overtightening. I'm swapping these for torx screws so I don't have to buy the special insert nuts every time I want to tear the whole thing down
Also I've never had a problem with the stock brass deflector, mine ejects at 1 oclock and can be fired offhand without a problem. I dunno if the SAR is different from the TAR in this respect
>>28292339
Many are either ambidextrous or have a left hand kit.
>>28292434
>when someone posts your AUG
>>28292494
Tavor has a brass deflector built-in, you big baby. MDR doesn't need one.
>>28292276
Why did you capitalize agreement?
Was there ever an attempt (besides the AKU-94) to make an AK bullpup conversion?
>>28292276
>tactical
Opinion disregarded
Bullpups are trash, if you're limited in length just switch to:
A) something with a folding stock if just for storage/carry
B) something with a shorter barrel shooting hotter/heavier loads (.300blk) for fighting in confined spaces
Anytime you need long range accuracy, size will only be an issue for transportation, which can be easily solved through either a folding stock or takedown suitcase rifle.
>>28295064
>B) something with a shorter barrel shooting hotter/heavier loads (.300blk) for fighting in confined spaces
Guys, guys
He's got the right idea
If you are going to breach a house
Just go to the weapon shop and buy more guns!
>>28294993
Norinco 86s? Maybe?
The only reason people dislike bullpups is because of their price
If you are a plebeian who can only afford a $600 rifle, stick with PSA AR-15's
If you are a member of the landed gentry, a well-bred patrician who can appreciate a truly refined combat rifle - buy a bullpup
>>28296212
Just not an israeli one. They suck.
