What does /k/ think of the modern Iraqi army?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N5IQxrac6g
Pretty shit.
To put it in more than two works, Al-Maliki badly screwed up after the Americans left, by making the government sectarian and driving the Sunni population into the hands of ISIS.
>>28270523
Why are they ripping of Battlefield 3 for it?
>>28270523
This is the most hilarious image I've seen all week.
Dumb, useless shit.
>>28270523
Pretty bad desu senpai baka.
>>28270801
Am I seeing that right? They just parked their fucking tank there until it burned so hotbthe ammo cooked off?
Where is their fucking infantry support? Like, we knew how to do that shit in WW1 when the things were fucking invented.
>>28270523
you know your country is (not?) shit when your pop music videos consist of women waving around funs and the same 3 clips of military exercises
poorly trained and well equipped. they are literally supplying isis
>>28270523
I just can't wrap my head around how they are so terrible. I guarantee a group of 11B Americans straight out of OSUT would outfight any of the Iraqi Army units operating. It just baffles my mind that they are overrun so easily. It doesn't matter that they have American equipment, they just lack some inherent will to actually fight and die, instead of just run.
>>28270894
i completely agree with you, its hard to believe that in cases like this, quantity over quality is the deciding factor
>>28270801
>Ahmed just park the tank here and shoot them
>B-But sir...
>Shut up Ahmed,... plan is perfect
>It Ain't me starts playing
>>28270842
Yes, this is how iraq do it.
Also
>Pretty bad desu senpai baka.
Strange, thought I wrote "Pretty bad desu senpai baka" Is my mind playing tricks or am I going insane?
>>28270937
what the fuck
Why cant I write "t,b,h f@m s,m,h"
They barely exist anymore, they had most of their armored vehicles captured destroyed or abandoned in the last 6 months, we all know they were shit, but they barely exist anymore, we are talking about a force that is in the past tense now.
>>28270894
How it was when they were under Saddam's command?
>>28270954
You sound new.
Are you new?
>>28270954
>he doesn't know
>>28270968
>>28270976
No, just wanted to use dem words like everyone else but I guess we got a filter now.
Lets go back to Iraq.
>>28270894
When people's backs are against the wall, they fight a little harder. When they have a way out, most bitch out. It's easier to stand and fight when your home is 6,000 miles away and running away won't help your situation. When your home is 6 miles away, the temptation to run is too great for some.
>>28270992
Let's do so.
Why are they so terrible at vehicle tactics? They just seem to park tanks and expect them to do all the work.
>>28270523
> That video
fugggg
>>28271005
Has to do something with their culture combined with other factors.
It has been said many times on /k/ that there has been many instance where certain people would horde information, books and manuals. Because if someone else knows how to do their job then they become "useless" or something like that. Due to that, if the driver gets killed then the tank wont be able to move since no one knows how to drive it.
And the officers are corrupt and not that trained. The whole army is fucking corrupt and roten to it's core but it's seems it have gotten somewhat back in shape.
There is a book called "arabs at war" which explains things alot.
>>28270523
hmm
First of all as
>>28271079
says there are ongoing cultural issues that make forming any effective conventional arab army pretty damn difficult at the best of times.
On top of that after the entirety of the Saddam-era military were sacked and a new one started from scratch they needed at least a decade to BEGIN putting together the experience and quality officers needed at all levels, and during that time would need to be turning over large numbers of people who were frankly shit and just signing on because it looked like a decent paycheck vs anything else they had on offer. What we got instead was a rushed program with the focus more on building up numbers and hoping a few would be half decent because after a couple of years the ever increasing cycle of talk about the US and buddies wanting out started and the pressure was on to get results NOW not in a bunch more years time. Had the half-assed force we left behind and hung out to dry only had to deal with a few locallised (ie single village/small town scale) uprisings and not a large scale war, against a well organised, funded and equipped force they could probably have hung on and maybe even gained some useful experience in the process. Instead we got to see again what happens when a poorly trained, largely unmotivated and poorly led force takes on a highly motivated and at least on occasion well led force, as usual it ended poorly.
>>28270523
I hear they have great surplus rifles.
Never been fired, and only dropped once!
>>28270992
Youre new
>>28271671
Not new, just a slowpoke.
I dont even use those words. Really shocked that I did not know about the filter or wonderd why suddenly everyone started to use desu again.
Feels bad to be slow.
Middle eastern culture is not conducive to fighting modern war and neither is a spotty education system. They have patriotism issues which I guess is understandable but it sours motivation and erodes discipline.
ANA has a lot of the same problems.
The people in a country you invade and occupy can only help you rebuild their country to be as good as it was before you fucked it up. Iraq wasn't that good before we shit all over it so you can't ever expect it to end up like Japan or Germany even if we fully occupied it.
To "force fix" Iraq we would need to push our culture on them and change the whole country from its core supplementing what they lack in values with what we have. Iraq would turn into an America theme park in the middle east. That might actually be what's best for their quality of life but I'm not sure that would sit very well with everyone.
>>28271671
I was here when /fur/ was a board. Post tits or gtfo newfag normie
>>28270992
Which ATGM?
>>28272004
Konkurs?
>>28270523
Arabs can not into modern military.
End of story.
>>28271789
Bruv it's been up for like a month. They did fix cuck though
>>28270894
>they just lack some inherent will to actually fight and die, instead of just run and die
FTFY
>>28270523
I'm watching them in person leave the compound and come back with 45-60 percent casualties for the last 3 weeks.
Theyre fucked.
Lemme explain some stuff real quick.
On a base level the average iraqi grunt is about on par with a national guardsman. Couple weeks of drill, hes fired an AK or M16 A2 enough to know what end the bullets come out of.
But you're sitting there like "yeah but what the shit anon, 18 year old AMERICAN draftees with only 3 weeks of bootcamp crushed the nazis and the japs, why cant the iraqi soldiers take a single city?"
Leadership.
Thier officers are not officers because they are most qualified, they are officers because they are cousins with whoever the fucking general is, who is only a general because HE was is allowed to be by the US in exchange for compliance. His martial skills were a secondary consideration in his selection.
Interesting supply dynamic: those TOW'S, tanks, humvees, arty pieces, .50's etc etc we gave to them?
They werent issued to units based on who needed them or who had guys trained to use them.
They were issued to units who were able to find favor with those generals who are only in that position because they were brown nosing the US.
In short, weapons and supplies beyond the bare minimum (rifles and a few hundred rounds each, a set of fatigues, and a pair of boots, maybe even enough for each soldier in the unit!)
Were not handed out based on any sort of tactical necessity.
Heavy weapons were given or witheld as favors to consolidate power/incentivize obedience instead of deployed as needed.
Then it gets worse, instead of being even POORLY used by guys with no idea what they were doing, they were hoarded, as a way for the generals toadies to lord power over THIER subordinates. So no matter how effective the grunts on the bottom are, they cant get what they need without much ritual bowing and debasement to a superior lucky enough to earn enough favor to posess something of value. Contd.....
>>28272884
In other words, all supply centered around officers finding favor with thier superiors and aside from the bare minimum needed to claim they are a militatheyeverything was stored in "the sultans treasury" style FOBs where they were unissued or unused because officer traded them like political poker chips instead of deploying them as weapons and gear where the units needed them most.
When ISIS attacked there was a scramble to get stuff from these storage areas but if an arty commander might only have a few token arty pieces and a few dozen shells because he traded them for several hundred humvees that are easier to sell for cash on the black market.
Meanwhile, your mechanized infantry have 3 humvees per company but thirty arty cannons and 20,000 shells because THIER commander was trying to trade them for a dozen tanks, because tanks are status symbols
(Side note: a big part of persian warrior culture revolves around posessing big flashy "prestige weapons" it normally doesnt matter that he cant use them, he MUST be a great warrior, how else would he get them? Works great on intimidating rivals, opressing a populace, not so great against a determoned enemy like ISIS that can see through the bubullshit
So where did all the old revolutionary guards disciplined, expierienced, battle hardened officers go?
They joined ISIS because the USA took away thier prestige toys that they ACTUALLY DID know how to use, and fired them only to replace them with some toady who squanders his men and resources.
So by the time the iraqi army finally began FIELDING any of this shit it was very rare for it to be in the hands of anyone who knew how to use it, (a middle eastern "big man" has to be FUCKING DESPERATE to hand over his loot to subordinates btw) the over centralized "pretige weapon hoarding lots" had already been captured by ISIS, and when they werent the poor SOBs trying desperately to find ANYTHING they actually knew how to use were fucked contd....
>>28272949
They were fucked because they found that thier officers had been selling shit on the black market, or giving it away for favors.
So esentially nobody had what they needed, and ISIS had so much fucking shit they literally couldnt find a way to move it all to thier own troops and had to find a way to launder money in order to buy FLEETS of semis to move it all.
The officer cut and ran, anyone competent enough to see the end that was coming ran, if they werent surrounded. And leaderless poor souls with nowhere to go and no command did exactly what youd expect scared lower enlisted left alone with the enemy approaching to do. They surrendered in droves, or, huddled inside FOBs and strong points until they were surrounded and overran.
Surrendering doesnt seem to be any different that getting overran (theyve seen the videos too, except it was thier freinds in them)
So leaderless, demoralized, and utterly underequipped they fight because they know surrender is no longer an option. Make no mistake, these men are not fighting a war, they are just slowly comitting suicide by enemy combatant.
The ONLY places this isnt the case is in direct vicinity of US and coalition bases and controlled areas where logistics and supply are kept up by coalition members, and in the areas where what few competent officers there were managed to rally thier men and hold the enemy. There are good soldiers here, there are good leaders here. Its just too little and too late.
Maybe 2 years ago a major iraqi assault led by a division of coalition advisors and supplementary forces could have crushed ISIS in its crib.
Now nothing short of an entire invasion like we havent seen since we were fighting saddam is going to fix this.
>>28271079
>The whole army is fucking corrupt and roten to it's core but it's seems it have gotten somewhat back in shape.
It's Shia and Kurd militias that are behind most progress against ISIS on ground. When it comes to arabs and warfare, their regular armies suck because it's all about tribal politics and regime staying on top. Arab irregular forces like militias and insurgencies work better because they have religion, ideologies and tribal affiliation uniting 'em, while in regular armies same things are just play pieces for regimes to use on divide and conquer games.
First the classic..
http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars
... and observations by very same author decade later.
http://www.rubincenter.org/2013/03/western-influence-on-arab-militaries-pounding-square-pegs-into-round-holes/
Not professional enough, Never learn new tactic. Assholes to work with. Surrender more than France/Germany/Italy combine.
Untrained cowards that we give our shit to just so they can surrender to ISIS.
>>28272884
>On par with a national guardsman.
No. Not just no, but fuck no.
Everyone in the military goes to the same branch specific basic training. In the case of NG Infantry, they go to Benning with the active infantry guys. Then they train one weekend a month with the unit and get sent to a bunch of schools.
Hell the Guard started getting battle space toward the end....and was doing well.
The Iraqi Army is on par with dindus. They even cock the AK to the side like gangstahhhs do with Hi-points they call Glawks
>>28273312
At least that's good for you guys.
>>28270868
Pretty much this.
Saddams military wouldn't have gotten its shit pushed in by ISIS. Its like the US designed it to fail just so that their puppet jihadist (ISIS etc) could take their shit and use it against Assad.
>>28272884
>>28272949
>>28273025
I feel sorry for those Iraqi soldiers you described.
>>28273434
They've already tried to train Iraq twice now, the problem is more Iraqis are lazy now that they know the US has to supply them and fight for them if things get rough, when Saddam was leading the country they had no one at all to fall back on and knew they had to actually try
>>28272949
>They joined ISIS because the USA took away thier prestige toys that they ACTUALLY DID know how to use, and fired them only to replace them with some toady who squanders his men and resources.
Wasn't it basically like this.
>Saddam gets BTFO and his troops go home, many of them keeping their small arms.
>US realize they need parts of Saddam structure to hold Iraq together
>Send note to Iraqi veterans telling them to come to Baghdad and work to rebuild the country
>Promises to pay them for missed paycheck and a paid work to rebuild Iraq
>Everything is going good
>Suddenly a wild retarded american appears
>Decides that he need to show the iraqi populace that the Saddam regime is gone and everything associated with it needs to be removed.
>Tells Iraqi veterans (some of them traveling across the country) to GTFO
>Now you have situation where thousands of armed and trained men are without pay
>They still need feed their family so they either sell their weapons for cash or jihad for cash
After that the insurgency in Iraq really took of.
There was documentary on youtube about i. Any one remember it?
If the US had supplied and trained the old Iraqi military (which was decent by arab standards) ISIS would never have happened.
>>28272884
>>28272949
>>28273025
I feel sorry for the Iraqi grunt. Probably just an average guy like me that is took the job because there wasn't much else around. Perhaps he is a patriot that wants to defend his country from ISIS scum.
And then he can't do shit because he contentiously get fucked by his own leaders.
What would happen if western countries just pulled out some officers from their own ranks and sent them down to replace the shitty leadership they have now?
>>28273446
>They've already tried to train Iraq twice now
And that is the problem. You should have worked with the shit that was all ready there. Saddam's military might have been shit but by arabs standards it was good and it wouldn't have gotten it shit pushed in by some shitty jihadist.
The old Iraqi military actually had a lot of leaders with real experience fighting a war.
>>28273504
Well essentially the rogue military types joined up with hardened insurgents and escaped/released political prisoners and POW's that america had been holding and formed this quasi political/terrorist/conventional military/religious group.
And ISIS was born. What makes them so effective is how they can swap between massed guerilla and insurgent assaults to conventional tactics.
Keep in mind iraqi officers are still around who cut thier teeth in the now forgotten iran/iraq war that historians wideley compare to WW1 in both casualty numbers (respective to thier populations) and tactics despite posessing modern weaponry.
Its a concerted effort on all fronts, religious, political, and military to establish a hyper-theocratic totalitarian dictatorship.
Basically its a story of "loose change ads up."
Lets say untrained insurgents are pennies
Former army grunts with guns are nickels
Former junior officers and staff ncos are dimes
Former high brass, politicians, and religious clerics are dollars.
Multiply by a couple hundred thousand.
Individually or in small bands they aint shit. Together they are.
They finally touched bases and organized, and it would have taken another troop surge happening right at the time obama was promising wed have our boys home in a year.
So he and his cabinet of lackeys ignored them hoping they were just an isolated group that might at best cause a few skirmishes with iraqi outposts and waved the withdrawal ahead.
That shits finished gestation and now we have the birth contractions of a new totalitarian theocracy starting up.
In this instance I can unironically say "thanks obama"
>>28273574
Theyd die.
>>28272949
>a middle eastern "big man" has to be FUCKING DESPERATE to hand over his loot to subordinates btw) the over centralized "pretige weapon hoarding lots"
That reminds me of this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA4foarxj_o&feature=youtu.be&t=4m58s
>For the last 500 years the abbasid had hid their wealth there
>And then they imprisoned Mustasim and starved him
>Mustasim asked for some food and Halagu sent him a platter with gold upon it
>He said what i am going to do with this gold and sent it back
>If you can't eat it why did you hoard it for? Why didn't you give it to your men so they where ready to die for you?
TL;DR
757 years later and the arabs are still the same.
>>28273504
>If the US had supplied and trained the old Iraqi military (which was decent by arab standards) ISIS would never have happened.
Yes. However, reforming the security sector and properly disarming/demobilising/reintegrating an army are difficult, costly and unexciting. Which is why 'the west' want elections, any elctions, as they give us nice headlines. Never mind that they don't do a whole lot regarding stability and security.
>>28273627
>So he and his cabinet of lackeys ignored them hoping they were just an isolated group that might at best cause a few skirmishes with iraqi outposts and waved the withdrawal ahead.
ISIS was created by US/Israel/Saudi etc to take out Asssad.
They didn't just ignore it, they wanted it to happen.
The plan was to let ISIS remove Assad and then let ISIS grow in to a semi worthy adversary and then fight them.
Why? Because if you wan't global change you need a global problem to justify a global solution.
Everything is playing out pretty much exactly how it was described in Albert Pike's letter. But Putin's reaction to the situation kinda fucked their plans a bit.
>>28272004
Given that Saudi Arabia supplies "fighters" in Syria...
http://www.businessinsider.com/syria-rebels-and-tow-missiles-2015-10
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/12/12/why-is-saudi-arabia-buying-15000-u-s-anti-tank-missiles-for-a-war-it-will-never-fight/
>yfw American ATGMs are given to terrorists trained by America to destroy American hardware in use by soldiers trained by Americans
>>28273632
But would die as much as they die now? Wouldn't they at least be able to hold their ground?
>>28273681
>Yes. However, reforming the security sector and properly disarming/demobilising/reintegrating an army are difficult, costly and unexciting
But its a lot easier then training a completely new military to fight an insurgent led by the old military.
>Which is why 'the west' want elections, any elctions, as they give us nice headlines. Never mind that they don't do a whole lot regarding stability and security.
Sad but true.
The Saddest part is that people still fall for the whole ''we have to bomb them to protect their human rights'' bullshit. Anyone that has been even remotely awake the last 15 years should be able to see that the wars fought for ''freedom and democracy'' has brought the exact opposite. Iraqi, Syria, Libya etc. All of those countries worse of now then there where before western countries started messing with their shit.
Same thing with Iran 1953.
We should just leave them and their dictators alone. If they want democracy and basic human rights they need to fight for it themselves.
>>28273627
While your view points are sound you are forgetting one thing...
The current ISIS elite you say were born from the iraq/iran war did not come out of a vaccum. They were born from a world war 1 style war that happened due to leadership incompetence.
The same is happening today with the current crop va ISIS. The incompetent are being killed off or replaced. All that is being left is a improving force. There is no way around this. The IA has bluned the ISIS assults, and have stalemated with them in many areas.
There is still hope, imo, unless you belive thay incompetence will spring eternal, which is a little cognitively dissident if you belive competence was achived before. It will just take time for natural selection to take place.
>>28273686
Getting into tinfoil hat country there, I usually use occams razor and the saying "never credit to malicious intent what is due to incompetence"
Whether is was some sort of black operation to make haliburton another $100 billion or just various organizations with a common grudge finally figuring out what networking is doesnt really matter.
The end result is that nothing short of another full scale invasion, subsequent fallujah style city clearings, and another decade of COIN ops is going to fix it.
The long range bombing campaign is a stalling tactic because any one party making a move risks dragging iran, russia, the US, the UN, and Turkey into it, as well as the arab league.
Keep in mind iran fought battles against iraq using 100,000 screaming kids as a human mine clearing wave just to open a breach for 5,000 real soldiers. Russia loves them some attrition warfare too.
Whatever is done has to done verrrrrry carefully. I'd say its the political storm of the century but weve already had two of em in the last 100 years.
Dont care what the memes say, nobody, not even russia, wants to be the ones who deal with it.
>>28273722
Dude, its gone. They needed something like that a year ago.
Anyhow, im going there tomorrow.
Maybe I can find out more info but last I saw, they were getting slaughtered any time coalition forces werent giving heavy support.
>>28273722
Yeah, except we installed most of the dictators we bombed.
American geopolitical process:
1: start a coup
2: bloody rebellion fueled by us follows
3: install dictator, allow him to do whatever he wants as long as he is anti whatever were against at the moment
Then either:
> his people, sick of foreign meddling and a clearly puppet government stage popular revolt to attempt to govern themselves, and we declare them terrorists and bomb them.
Or
>pet psycho dictator quits being useful/responding to commands, so we bomb him to protect the peoples freedomes that we helped take away in the first place
We tossed so much gasoline on the iran iraq war it wasnt even funny. We armed both sides too!
Pretty much all of the instability in the middle east happened because america and russia replaced britain and france as the meddruss and set up too many proxies to handle in a cold war they didnt expect to end so soon.
Places like afghanistan and pakistan used to be fucking vacation destinations until the 70's for christ sake.
>>28270954
theres a word filter, dumbass
>>28270523
things I hear about the iraqi army
1. they come from a place where survival means running and hiding, put them in the army and they still run and hide
2. moral suffers from the fear their families are not safe when they are deployed
3. regional/religious tensions mean their own people are often hostile to them
4. they are given high tech gear that doesn't match how they fight, and so must abandon their training, or abandon the gear
5. their army suffers enormously from accountability issues
the less accountable you make yourself, the more powerful you become and the more blame you can dodge
6. their culture represses autonomy at every stage of their lives, it makes soldiers who won't act without orders, will take orders from anyone important looking when no legitimate authority is present, and panic when they have none at all
7. officers are one of the few groups in their society with upward mobility, this makes them unbelievably hungry for promotion; they will less out anyone, trip each other up, refuse to train others, hoard texts and materials etc
8. troops are often given a single weapon or piece of equipment worth more than everything their whole family owns, many join just so they can sell their kit then dessert
not sure how much of this is true, but it makes sense to me
>>28273843
This desu senpai
>>28273747
>Getting into tinfoil hat country there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwTUCiyo_dY
>>28273747
>Whether is was some sort of black operation to make haliburton another $100 billion or just....
Well it depends how you look at it.
If the war was fought to bring peace and freedom then it is a massive failure.
But if it was fought just to benefit big bankers and shareholders in Raytheon, haliburon etc then its a huge success.
The ''great'' think about the war against terrorism (and drugs) is that there is no clear enemy so you can really win. Conventional wars end sooner or later but these wars has only created more terrorist. Extremely good for the people that profit from war.
The west either needs to either go full out total genocidal war or they need to leave them alone. The type of war we have now can go on for centuries because for every terrorist that is killed in a drone strike severals civilians die to and that create the perfect breeding ground for muslim extremism.
Just look at how Iran was 1953. They where on their way to becoming a secular country and then the west fucked them over so hard that many of them turned to their religion for solution.
The US foregin policy the last century (and other countries) have basically created the perfect breeding ground for muslim extremism and the last 15 years has been fucking extreme.
Imagine you are a 5 year old kid in Iraq when the invasion begins. Your cousin dies in a drone strike, your father gets killed and then 13 years later when your kids are born looking like sci-fi monsters because all of the DU dust you are breathing in. Every family in Iraq has been effected in some way.
An entire generation of young military aged men that grew up in a war thorn country asy pray for Imams that want to preach jihad.
>This is the perpetual war that Orwell wrote about.
TL;DR
Call me a tinfoil all you want, i am in good company.
>>28270523
>Iraq
>riven by multiple layers of division
>sectarian
>tribal
>class
Given the local conditions it would be a much better idea if the US had installed a dictator/monarchy.
It's just a shame that US attitudes and ideological convictions don't allow for it, it would have saved an awful lot of grief.
Forcing Western democracy on a region that is sociologically barely out of the middle ages was never going to be a fruitful exercise.
>>28271875
this guy really gets it.
the reason so many countries recovered so well podt WW2 is that the spirit of everyone in the country was literally broken.
Japan is a god example because of their cult-cike devotion to their emperor/belief system.
the middle east is very similar. the difference is we didnt go in and total war wholesale slaughterize everything, bombing every city into ash, etc...
we defeated their army but their army was defeated before we even put boots on the ground.
We neglected to defeat their culture, which is the entirety of the problem in the mideast
>>28273747
>The end result is that nothing short of another full scale invasion, subsequent fallujah style city clearings, and another decade of COIN ops is going to fix it.
This >>28273860 is me.
Basically what i am trying to say is that you can't really be sure that they failed because this might be the exact situation they wanted to create. The end game might very well be the exact scenario i quoted above.
>Let ISIS remove Assad
>US goes in for Iraq war 3.0
>Turkey gets part of northern Syria
>Israel gets to keep the oil in the Golan height
>Millions of arabs are dead
>Hundreds of thousands of US goy soldiers are dead or crippled
>They don't give a shit.
But hey, i am just a crazy tinfoil nutter.
>>28273864
>it would be better if america had installed a dictator
I'm not even sure if that is irony or not
iraq HAD a dictator, who managed to unite the country under a single theoretical rule
not everyone did what he said, but they achnowledged him as top dog
from that possition he would have destroyed minority groups, strengthened government, united regions, and ultimately reformed till iraq looked like thailand
instead america sent iraq back to the middle ages, ensured there was no centeral rule, no trust in government, and left the regions in the hands of extremists
>>28273864
It's a lot easier to rig the democratic process then it is it dethrone a sun god dictator.
>>28273904
>instead america sent iraq back to the middle ages, ensured there was no centeral rule, no trust in government, and left the regions in the hands of extremists
Everything according to plan.
>Further, the process of transformation , even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor.
>>28270963
They fought tooth and nail against the Iranians. Sure, once America and its simply overwhelming tech advantage rolled over the hill they crumpled. But that was a suicide fight, they could never stand against America, THAT would be suicide.
But against an even opponent Saddam's guys fought hard.
These new fucks ran from motherfuckers without trucks, tanks, planes, nothing. Just some black rags and rifles. Pathetic.
>>28273909
complete opposite is true
dictators rule by majesty and force, simply make everyon think they are weak enough to overthrow, or actually make them weak
even simply making opposing groups stronger will work
democracy requires a number of key pre-requisites
1. compromise is acceptable to the majority of people
sometimes a member of either side would be hated by half the country, and a middle ground figure would be hated by everyone
democracy only works when the majority shares key intrests and values, so in some states democracy is not a viable option
2. the "looser" of a democratic process will accept defeat, or will be unable to seize power
often you get a "vote for general and general becomes president; vote for anyone else general becomes tyrant" dielemma
if there is a clear power imbalance between the candidates the more powerful may simply sieze power or kill the opposition if they loose
3. the area must actually be governable
glorious leader will inevitably take the blame for everything wrong in the territories they control, if the territory is full of unavoidable catastrophy, like poverty, racial violance, famine, terrorism, border incursions etc, it's a real possibility that anybody who took the wheel would be ousted
>>28273916
it is almost undeniable that fucking up the region was the objective
to what ends?
we may never know
isreal survives only because of arab disunity and US funding
the UAE could have been a winner or a looser, certainly they hold huge stake
america might simply have decided it was easier to make everyone weaker than to get stronger themselves
egypt was probably a looser, for economic reasons
in my mind I think it's a real possiility that the real goal was never achieved, the sinister hidden plan failed; and this is why it seems like nothing decisive happened
>>28274016
>to what ends?
War is the mother of debt and debt is profit for the people that do the lending.
That is basically the core issue here. As long we have a system that allows people to profit massively from war we will continue to have war.
>isreal survives only because of arab disunity and US funding
Yeah, Israel is a big part of it.
Its like Israel was hammered in to the region like a wedge with the purpose to destabilize it and give excuses for foreign military intervention.
>The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time.
Can any one really deny that this is what is happening today right now?
>>28274048
The letter was supposedly written in 1871 and it describes 3 world wars.
http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike2.htm
But seeing as the letter wasn't made public until 1959 you can just ignore the first to wars. Its the description of the third world war that is interesting.
To me its pretty clear that most of this happens by design.
The destruction of Libya, Syria and Iraq also unleashed a flood of refugees (and jihadist) in to Europe.
All according to plan.
>>28270842
If the ammo cooked off it wouild be a massive pillar of fire, not that wimpy explosion.
>>28273686
>ISIS was created by US/Israel/Saudi etc to take out Asssad.
ISIS is former Al Qaida in Iraq. They formed after US invasion to wage insurgency against US. Assad allowed it operate from Syria freely and pretty likely gave 'em direct support. That kept US tied in Iraq and for Assad that reduced risk US invasion. Once civil war started in Syria they became part of insurgency against Assad and in while evolved into current ISIS. Talk about shit backfiring.
>>28273747
>I usually use occams razor and the saying "never credit to malicious intent what is due to incompetence"
That is Hanlon's razor.
>>28273433
We got in 14 hour engagement because of their incompetence. 312 Iraqi Soldier/Militia killed/43 Wounded/20 Captures. My Company lose 11 killed/23 wounded when we get order to change momentuum and artillery support up. Rest of day was cleaning mess up and everyone writing incident report.
>>28274169
>Al Qaida
Which was created by the US to fight the commies in Afghanistan.
>>28274170
>312 Iraqi Soldier/Militia killed/43 Wounded/20 Captures.
>My Company lose 11 killed/23 wounded
To the Iraqis train on any for of care under fire at all? Mfw when i read that dead to wounded ratio is fucking
>>28274231
But that's entirely wrong.
The ISI was who actually funded the various Mujahadeen groups.
Smh desu senpai
>>28274246
Apparently not. I had US JTAC with us call in CAS and my company commmader also call in CAS. We got Iranian and American air support for four hours.
>>28274246
short answer is no. They just simply don't have the institutional knowledge. Their role II and III care is also nonexistant, provided by the US forces when we are available to them.
In short, they are just like every other middle eastern country save israel and maybe Iran on a good day.
>>28274231
>al qaida, a pan-islamic group from saudi arabia
>Mujahadeen, made up of extremely xenophobic pashtun tribesmen.
>conflating the two, ever.
just because the late civil war period taliban used OBL's cash to prosecute their war doesn't mean they were in bed since the beginning.
>>28274278
>In short, they are just like every other middle eastern country save israel and maybe Iran on a good day.
Jordan gave the jews some trouble in the 6 day war and the SAA seems deal with the US/Israel/Saudi funded ''rebels'' good enough.
They might be shitty compared to us but aren't they doing pretty good considering they are arabs?
>>28271005
Arab militaries have never understood the point of competent NCOs. There's a harsh divide between the wealthy, corrupt officers and the conscripted masses. Senior Sergeants aren't a thing because no enlisted man will ever serve long enough to get up there. He'll either die or desert or join the endless wheel of corruption and purchase a commission as an officer so he can enjoy a life of privilege.
>>28274323
you're right, i always forget that jordan is actually pretty based.
>>28274325
The Pêşmerge focus highly on OR-5 and OR-6 NCO. We learn from Americans and their Allies and put it into effective use for us. Pêşmerge pay grade represent that.
OR-1 454$/month
OR-2 519$/month
OR-3 687$/month
OR-4A 763$/month
OR-4B 985$/month
OR-5 1.752$/month
OR-6 2.021$/month(my rank)
OR-7 2.959$/month
OR-8 3.254$/month
OR-8A(Special Forces) 4.122$/month
OR-8B(Anti-Terror Force) 5.225$/month
>>28270523
Top recruitment video 10/10 op, now if you could only make them good at fighting.
>>28274246
>To the Iraqis train on any for of care under fire at all? Mfw when i read that dead to wounded ratio is fucking
Might have something to do with enemy executing people surrendering. ISIS might limit taking hostages to numbers they can manage without tying too many of their own to guard 'em. Ransoms are part of their business model.
>>28270523
kek 1:31
compare the chick to the COD4 intro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGzGsb_TPtI
go to the end (5:25)
coincidence? I think not.
>>28274381
Daesh fight worse than Iraqi. It is like two retarded chimp bitch slapping each other. We do not even both capturing Daesh unless they are important to Intelligence Service.
>>28274381
>Might have something to do with enemy executing people surrendering.
I am not talking about the dead to captured ratio, i am talking about the dead to wounded ratio.
>>312 Iraqi Soldier/Militia killed/43 Wounded/20 Captures.
312 killed and 43 wounded. It should be the other way around.
I am going to just pull this out of my ass but i going to say that 200 of those killed would be listed as wounded if they could put on a CAT and had some basic first aid knowledge.
Any one got that video of arab ''special forces'' eating kittens and shit? One guy is fat as fuck and they eat live kitten just to show how bad ass they are.
>>28274465
CAT would not have done anything for them unless they can fix wounds from JDAMs. I had JTAC call in five strikes on where we determine the majority of opposition to be. We had no way of knowing who it was at time, called over loud horns in Arabic, Kurdish, English and Farsi. My Company Commander and I try to end engagements fast as possible when that happens.
>>28274521
Wait.
Who the fuck was fighting who again? I got the impression that those Iraqis was on your side.
>>28270523
french/10
>>28274545
It was friendly fire incident. Iraqi Army attack us being incompetent and Arab.
>>28274556
So you basically wiped out an enemy regiment because some idiot on their side shot you first?
And how the hell could the air support go along with wiping them out just because they started it? Did the JTAC call it in as ISIS or did they just say ''hey we got attacked by a regiment of friendlies, please wipe them out''
>>28274605
battalion*
>>28274605
Basically. When we counter-attack that much it is combine arms with artillery/mortar/CAS support. We had no way of knowing who it was. They never tried to recontact us and the JTAC granted my request when he got full picture and scale of engagement,
>We had no way of knowing who it was at time, called over loud horns in Arabic, Kurdish, English and Farsi
>>28274549
Please tell me Peshy people pick up the gear Iraqis drop.
>>28274652
We do. My company got eight M240L/four M2A1/four Mk. 19/two Mk. 47 just laying down on ground.
>>28274549
Raid difficulty really dropped but the loot is still good.
>>28274549
Are they not issued plates or do they just throw them away because they are to heavy?
Or are they all hoarded by some Iraqi major waiting for IS to pick it up?
>>28274750
They have OTV and IOTV with ESAPI and ESBI issue. I only see their Special Forces with armor. We always wear ours.
A bunch of people that want to play dress up and look cool and are total shit when it actually comes to doing work.
>>28270801
Did they forget how to move the tank?
>>28274838
They move in with infantry support. In video you see Daesh run right up to one and shoot driver.
>>28274853
No infantry*
>>28274838
>Did they forget how to move the tank?
Maybe the driver got injured and nobody else could move it because the driver never bothered to show any one else because of
>>28271079
Pretty fucking crappy military.
>>28270532
>>28270532
it was worse then that some of the comanders betrayed there own men like they told some to hold postion only for the isis or some others to catch them and kill them
i think that's why some of the soilders left there position
>>28274963
Their radio comms were all fucked up during those first few days. We sat at the barracks just listening and laughing since they did not even bother to encrypt. Daesh probably heard everything and knew where to attack too.
>>28274408
>Daesh fight worse than Iraqi.
That is kinda surprising considering how fast daesh captured a lot of territory from Iraqi army. Then again they are suicidal fanatics with deathwish who fight to death more often than not turns it into something other than contest of skill or tactics, just determination.
>It is like two retarded chimp bitch slapping each other. We do not even both capturing Daesh unless they are important to Intelligence Service.
I'm not really surprised about either one of these. They aren't worth taking risk to capture 'em, unless there is intel suggesting something else.
>>28274465
>I am not talking about the dead to captured ratio
At point where captive is executed, he becomes dead instead of captive. That kinda changes ratios between dead-wounded-captured.
>>28275002
das fucked up why didn't you help them out
>>28270523
I think it would be a good idea.
-ghandi
>>28275328
The Pêşmerge have no obligation to help the Iraqi Army and it is illegal for them to enter Iraqi Kurdistan without Kurdish President and Parliament approval.
