Saw this on another forum..... damn! How come this is not more well known?
Because it's bullshit
>>28229897
Dude, I don't even know what to say about this.
Other than u dum of course
>>28229897
It is well known. What is also well known is the fact that Lockheed used the tech to refine and troubleshoot the design; it was not lifted wholesale. There is almost no similarity at all beyond very broad strokes.
Go look at youtube vids of how the Yak-43 performed short and vertical takeoff, and how it landed. Compare with the F-35. Then tell me how much direct similarity there is. You don't even need to dig into general schemata.
>>28229897
As if that even matters if the Russians did or did not invent stealth because they currently can't make even 1 stealth aircraft enter service in late 2015.
So if the Russians "Invented" stealth then how come they're having such difficulty make a single stealth aircraft?
Oh and the F-35 would tear the Yak-43 to bits without even trying.
>>28229897
So? Lockheed literally paid the Yakovlev Bureau for the design and further refined it.
>>28229897
It is very well known that this is bullshit.
>>28229897
yeah, OP is still a fag
>>28229952
>As if that even matters if the Russians did or did not invent stealth
It has nothing whatsoever to do with stealth, only with the general design of the STOVL thrust points and engine nozzle.
>>28229897
The Yak-141 does not use a lift fan, and Lockheed patented its swivel engine design before ever working with Yakolev.
It took years of research to turn Ufimtsev's work into something usable.
>>28229973
read the last paragraph in OP's pic darling
Does that mean any aircraft designed with two engines is a direct rip off of every aircraft like that which came before? fuck off. There is only so many places you can mount VTNs that won't upset the balance of a hover.
>>28229915
>>28229923
>>28229964
>>28229967
I'm >>28229944
and ya'll should accept that the truth is closest to >>28229960 and >>28229975.
Just crying about how it's total bullshit makes you look uninformed and assmad. The fact of the matter is Yak sold their STOVL research to LM and LM did use some of it and advanced the tech. No big deal.
>>28229983
I didn't see that bit. Are Slavboos still bitching about Ufimtsev when it was Overholser's initial programming skills and work on Echo 1 that made things like Have Blue and the eventual F-117 actually buildable in the real world? That it was US research that did 95% of the research to bring the tech along to where it is today?
Yes, he worked out the general principles, and he was brilliant and did a great job. However, saying he invented practical stealth aircraft is like saying Edison or Tesla invented modern computing without mentioning people like Turing.
>>28230044
>I didn't see that bit. Are Slavboos still bitching about Ufimtsev when it was Overholser's initial programming skills and work on Echo 1 that made things like Have Blue and the eventual F-117 actually buildable in the real world? That it was US research that did 95% of the research to bring the tech along to where it is today?
Also, Slavs need a reminder that RCS is only one of 5 or 6 parameters that make an aircraft VLO. They forget that things like IR reduction, LPI comms and other emissions, etc have to be developed and implemented.
Theres basic realities about planes that lead to "optimal" design solutions
ofc all of them will look the same
Як -141 designed for soviet air carriers Tбилиcи class. It is one of the faster jets at that moment, for kill other jets. F-35 is multimission jets, lockheed do not just copy Як.
But i think it is terriable mistake, F-35 is week if we compare it with old US special jets.
Як is anti-aircarrier groups warships. Як just send target designation for soviet aircarrier with anti-warships rockets Гpaнит, and US AУГ sinck.
It's interesting... here's another factoid. Just before the Soviet Union fell apart, Mig was developing Mig-1.44 technology demonstrator. It had an RCS comparable to that of F-22.
As Soviet Union fell apart and Russia ended up in an economic turmoil, they abandoned the 1.44 technology demonstrator and sold it to China. That 1.44 tech became the basis of J-20.
>That’s the cancelled Russian MiG 1.44 stealth fighter, a plane that many have noted has external similarities with China’s new J-20 stealth jet. Now, Russian defense sources are saying that design data and parts from the MiG 1.44 were indeed used in the design of the J-20.
>“China bought the technology for parts, including the tail of the Mikoyan, for money,” he said.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110920170424/http://defensetech.org/2011/08/19/did-the-j-20-come-from-this-mig/
Just think about it... Russian designs are now the basis of all of the major 5th Gen fighter planes!
>>28229897
Except the core aspects of the F-35B's lift fan were already patented before LM did any work with Yak.
>>28230210
>It had an RCS comparable to that of F-22.
Not even close.
>didn't even have S-ducts
>not a single example/prototype exists with any sort of RAM treatment
>the vertical stabilizer angles are RF amplifiers >it featured canards
>external pylons
>extremely unstealthy intakes and boundary layer gap
>multi-part canopy
>protrusions/antennae everywhere
Pic related was an actual MiG 1.44 prototype. They had the bare bones of something that with almost a full redesign may have eventually featured limited VLO capability.
>That 1.44 tech became the basis of J-20.
Except the Chinese actually built something with SOME indication of VLO priorities.
>Just think about it... Russian designs are now the basis of all of the major 5th Gen fighter planes!
Even the Chinese had to basically completely redesign your jet to make it remotely VLO. The only thing the Chinese need from the Russians is help in engine manufacturing and mat sci tech. That's it. And the Russians are so far behind the US in this regard it's almost moot.
>>28229897
lockheed did buy the data from Yakalov.
but they took their rather unrefined inefficant 80s russian concept and poured a fuckton of their own engineering work into it to make it a good product.
>>28230210
>It had an RCS comparable to that of F-22
>they abandoned the 1.44 technology demonstrator and sold it to China. That 1.44 tech became the basis of J-20
Neither of these are correct, in fact Russia still possesses the MiG 1.44 aircraft, it was on display earlier this year.
>>28230146
>Theres basic realities about planes that lead to "optimal" design solutions
Sure thing kid. That's why Boeing engineers came out to the same solution, right?
It's a fact that L-M took Yak-43 and just further refined it. Soviets didn't have the supercomputers necessary to run all the stealth equations and produces optimal shapes (and US had a hard time too just by looking at Have Blue/F-117 development but at least they were able to run simulations). If you took Yak-43 and just ran it through stealth optimization software, you'd end up with X-35.
>>28230343
Read the link. Russia sold plans & tail section to China.
Other part comes from Wikipedia which is actually cited:
>Russian aviation experts claim that the unorthodox design, use of radar-absorbent materials (RAM), and internally mounted weapons, gave an RCS comparable to that of the F-22.[25]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_Project_1.44
In short, go to bed kid. It's late.
>>28230392
>Fuck he called out my shit sources.
>How can I damage control. I know!
>KID KID KID KID KID
>>28230392
Almost that entire article is sourced to the following work:
>Gordon, Yefim. Sukhoi S-37 and Mikoyan MFI: Russian fifth-generation fighter technology demonstrators. Warbird Tech. 1. Hinckley, UK: Midland Publishing, 2002. ISBN 1-857801-202.
in which a semi-retired Russian aviation "expert" with no ties to either project tries to assert that pic related and the MiG 1.44 were actual 5th gen aircraft. In spite of the fact neither of them were ever demonstrated or even publicly claimed to have any sort of reduced RCS, much less any other VLO tech.
This is one instance in which it very much behooves you to actually check the wiki sources before you dickwave.
>>28230359
>It's a fact that L-M took Yak-43 and just further refined it.
The opposite is true. LM took the Yak-43 and used some of the Russian data to improve a design that they already had patented. The patent is the entire reason for the Boeing X-32's screwed up V/STOL system as well. LM already had the optimal design patented. Boeing never stood a chance.
>>28230491
but... but... It says it on the internet with a source and everything! People wouldn't just spout bullshit about things they're not remotely qualified to talk about, would they? What kind of shitbird would do that?
>>28230491
And where are your sources? Oh wait, you don't have any! You just have unbridled jingoism fueled by immense butthurt to fall back on.
>>28230634
I'm not butthurt. Simply pointing out facts which are plain to anyone with a modicum of general military aviation knowledge. There is almost nothing about the MiG-1.44 or Su-37 that fulfills the VLO requirements of 5th gen classifications. Neither even features internal weapons storage, easily the simplest requirement to meet.
The simple fact of this matter is if Russia/USSR had VLO/5th gen ready to go with the MiG-1.44 or Su-37, they'd have a production airframe well before now. They do not. End of story, regardless of exaggerated Russian MoD and SlavAir fan claims.
>>28230634
>Ask someone to prove the negative.
>Russiaphile accusing people of unbridled jingoism
Well I guess it's not as cuckoo as ISIS complaining about police brutality in the US.
OH look, it's this thread again.
>>28230731
Lets be honest, the F-35 haters have always been pretty desperate.
>>28230634
>stop pointing out that my source is shit and has no authority on the subject
>>28229897
v2 of the pic from the same "chan" board... OP of it fixed layering mistake in the title...
>>28229897
The YAK-41/141 is literally nothing like the F-35....
Completely different propulsion systems.
>>28230634
>And where are your sources?
he...he listed them right in his post.
why didn't you just read his post?
Its like OP can't even into the Convair Model 200
>>28230781
What is the point of fixing something that is easily proven not true?
>>28230343
Why is one nozzle open and one contracted?
>>28230781
>>28229897
If the F-35 is a direct copy of the Yak-43, then....
...the Ak47 is just a cheap ripoff of the StG44
...the mosin is only a cheap ripoff of western rifles
...Deep Battle is a ripoff of Blitzkrieg
...T34 is a ripoff of pre-ww2 french tanks
...Su27 and Mig29 are both ripoffs of the F14
>>28230991
>Muh cartoons
>>28229897
Because its been debunked over and over again.
The Yak uses microjets and the F-35 uses lift fans. That difference makes a huge, huge impact on design and operation.
Russia did put some preliminary work into stealth, but it was made possible by america. They lacked the materials to truley pull it off, and the foresight to devlop them.
>>28231952
>They lacked the materials to truley pull it off, and the foresight to devlop them.
No. What they lacked first and foremost was computer processing and software design to practically apply the RCS math the real world. Read up on Echo-1 and the Hopeless Diamond. Those were the projects that made stealth possible.
>>28231910
The planes not only do look alike but there's also a financial transaction behind the technology and design. It's an open & shut case. It's not even up for a debate.
PS: rest of your examples are of the WTF category.
>>28231976
Northrup did just fine with Tacit blue, and they lacked lockheeds complex radar monitoring.
I would argue further, but its a bit redundant. In the end, they failed to devlop the tech needed to exploit stealth charicteristics, be it materials or computer software/hardware.
>>28231979
The YAK looks nothing like the F-35 beyond "plane". Its method of VTOL is vastly, vastly different, along with its control scheme
>>28232032
Tacit Blue was almost a decade after the Hopeless Diamond/Have Blue, and Northrup had access to a huge amount of the Lockheed skunkworks VLO research through DARPA.
>>28231979
It's a dual hot-exhaust mini-jet vertical lift engine with no outboard stabilization versus a cold-air blower fan with stabilization. They're completely different systems.
>>28232040
>Burgerclap is this mad
>>28232116
Stop acting like a retard, this is about Yak-43, not Yak-141.
>>28232151
>This looks exactly like an F-35 guys!
>>28232164
Yes, it does.
>>28232119
>u mad maymays
ayyy lmao
>>28232173
>>28232173
>look guyz!!!
>F-14 and Su-27 totally look alike
>clear proof that Su-27 is just a copy of F-14!!!
>>28232102
Its first flight was exactly 5 years after have blue, and the program for tacit blue started around the same time, in the mid 70's while the software was still being written, software written by skunkworks and their property.
Furthermore, this was the 70's/80's. There was no internet. Computers were the size of rooms, and transferable media was large and proprietary.
There was no real way for them to share even if it they were even willing.
Hell, just look at tacit vs have blue. Its obvious which design was heavily software aided.
>>28232151
>Like the Yak-141 the Yak-43 would have had only a single main engine, as well as two dedicated vertical-lift engines.
It still is exactly the same VTOL operation.
You are a dumbass
>>28229897
What?! the U.S. has imported foreign designs/minds? Impossible!
>>28232203
>Implying implications
Except for that part where unlike with F-14 and Su-27, the layout scheme of F-35 quite literally copies that of Yak-43; and for that part when lockmart factually bought all development documentation for Yak-43, polished it a bit and rolled out F-35. This is a historical fact, not need to be upset.
>>28232173
Those two planes are so dissimilar in just about every single way that they bear absolutely no resemblance whatsoever. The intakes are different. The wings have a completely different and unrelated profile, so the F-35 has a great deal more lift than the Yak-43. I can tell that without even looking up specs. The rear control surfaces are completely dissimilar. The fan port is more optimally placed and the plane is designed completely differently around that placement.
The F-35 is not, at all, related to that piece of shit taking up space above it.
>>28232255
See
>>28232247
Lockheed only was interested in the information on the Yak's VTOL operation.
The F-35 also has an extra pylon per bay and a side mount in the bay, for a possible 6 amraams.
>>28232247
>Muh wiki!
Look at the blueprints, imbecile.
>>28232253
I'll be damned, a sane adequate poster on /k.
>>28232255
in the same way how the layout scheme of the ak47 is a direct copy of the stg44 and the layout scheme of the su27 and mig29 are direct copies of the f-14
>>28232267
Your main source of information is wikipedia. There's noting to see there.
>>28232255
>the layout scheme of F-35 quite literally copies that of Yak-43
Insofar as it has wings on the sides, a radar at the front and an internal weapon store, sure. Nothing else is even similar.
>>28232273
>Shitty attempts at demagogy
Nah, try again.
>>28232271
You clearly see two minijets, dumbass.
>>28232231
>Furthermore, this was the 70's/80's. There was no internet. Computers were the size of rooms, and transferable media was large and proprietary.
Where do you think Skunkworks was getting the supercomputer time to run their calculations?
>Hell, just look at tacit vs have blue. Its obvious which design was heavily software aided.
So Tacit Blue was not the product of computer RCS modelling? Toppest kek.
You've got some serious reading to do, anon.
>>28232173
You're gonna have to try again, because I see a different tail, a different nose, a different wing-shape, and a different engine. I bet you're one of those people who thinks that the MiG-25 was based on the Avro Arrow despite the planes having few similarities.
>>28232283
>Nothing else is even similar
See >>28232151
>>28232282
Do you need me to circle the vtol jets, fuccboi?
>>28232289
M8 even the underlying design philosophy is completely dissimilar. If that Yak-43 lost a wing I'd say it'd hit the ground in short order. The F-35 will gain a good portion of its lift from the fuselage itself and as such could reasonably survive that and keep flying.
I'm basing this entirely off the design specs and what I can see with my own two eyes.
>>28232302
I'm still trying to figure out how you think that image helps your case at all. It looks nothing like an F-35. Hell, I saved it on my computer just so I can pull it out myself if somebody starts making absurd claims like this again.
>>28232296
>Where do you think Skunkworks was getting the supercomputer time to run their calculations?
Lockheed had one.
>So Tacit Blue was not the product of computer RCS modelling?
Tacit blue was not the product of computer aided design, no. Thats have blue/F-117.
You sir, need to do some reading.
>>28232289
stop being so mad, bro
it is not a copy
stick your russia stronk maymay up your arse and deal with it
>>28232299
Sure, and Avro Arrow is based on La-250.
>I see a different tail, a different nose, a different wing-shape
Much less of that on the later design.
>and a different engine
Nope.
>>28229897
The ONLY things that look remotely similar are the lift-fans and the nozzles. At the end of the day there's only so many ways of going about STOVL aircraft.
Now the F-14 and Su-27 though... Clear carbon copy of the tomcat. Tu-160 also fallows that same design philosophy.
>>28232336
Yak doesn't have a lift fan.
>>28232271
Hello reddit.
>>28232336
The Yak series use jet engines, not a lift fan you twat.
>>28232344
>>28232350
Even better.
>>28232271
>patents
>WIKI!
idiot
>>28232303
>Circling VTOL jets on the blueprints of the single-engine variant
Come on, faggot.
>>28232305
>The F-35 will gain a good portion of its lift from the fuselage itself
So just like Yak-43 then.
>>28232313
Now look at the engine.
>>28232321
It's the further development of the design that they bought from Yak.
>>28232344
>>28232350
I think he means to say there's a round thing on the plane that kinda looks like the round thing on the other plane.
This must be what the Russians are talking about! It all makes sense now!
>>28232326
The Yak-141 did not have a Pratt & Whitney F-135 or a Rolls-Royce Liftsystem.
It looks nothing like the F-35.
>>28232316
>Lockheed had one.
Which was owned and operated by...
They never had a proprietary supercomputer at Skunkworks in the arly 70's. The received cycle time on the same machines used by other R&D houses working on other projects at Groom Lake. Guess where Tacit Blue was worked on. Go on, guess.
>http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=897
That's right. Groom Lake. By the way, the program which shit out Tacit Blue, wasn't even initiated until December 1976, after Have Blue was already in prototyping.
>>28232326
>La-250.
that's a ripoff of the Convair F-102
>>28232354
No, it failed because they're shitter.
>>28232364
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPOo1jOqZTA
>the F-35 is a copy of a YaK!!!!!!
https://www.google.com/patents/US5209428
>>28232358
>Now look at the engine.
My god. The Yak-141 was a single engine design. Just like the F-35. And the Mirage 2000. And the F-16. And the F-105. And the F-106. And the MiG-21. All of these planes must be based directly upon each other!
>>28232358
>So just like Yak-43 then.
No. The Yak seems optimized (in the loosest sense) to simply fit all the jets into a narrow-profile, fast, agile plane. The flat, squarish body of it provides no lift whatsoever, it's all on the wings. The F-35 clearly has an airfoil shape built into the fuselage.
>>28232358
>It's the further development of the design that they bought from Yak.
The YaK-43 was never touched by Lockmart, the pictures ITT are as far as it ever got.
>>28232384
comrade, american plane need no more than wing and engine and we can show you secret soviet document which is clear proof that american airplane is only copy of glorious soviet plane, dah?!
russia stronk!!!!
>>28230301
Fuck me - it's Firefox.
>captcha is aeroplanes.
Are you surprised that the to biggest adversaries for the last fifty years would steal designs and tech from each other?
>What is espionage?
>2015
>Thinking the F-35 has anything to do with the yak-141
anyone have a pattern for the Yak-43 doward nozzel?
>>28232624
>>28232633
>>28232633
>>28232641
The F-35 has to one of the most technically interesting planes ever made. Sexy bitch makes me wish I hadn't failed out of engineering.
>slavshits BTFO
Can you drunk fuckers at least try? Shits embarrassing.
>>28232717
>F-35
>sexy
Interesting, sure, but sexy? It's like the F-22's fat ugly sister.
>>28232255
>article literally says the fucking x-35 was already well into development before Lockheed pitched in anything with the yak-43
please die
>>28229952
>>28229983
the last paragraph, as the whole wiki article, talks about the guy, not about the aircraft itself.
>>28229952
Bongs invented Rugby and cricket. Inventing something doesn't mean you're good at it
>>28229897
That explains why its cost trillions and is still shit.
>>28230359
Or we look at reality
There was already prototyping of the X-35 and LM bought the data in the hopes that the Russians had something useful that they hadn't built on
>>28229897
looks more like Russia and the USA working together?
>Russia joins NATO when?
I fuckin' love Russia, they have tons of history and culture and they'd be great as good guys. They're just a little too caught up in being the "big bear", being aggressive, and trying to show that they have power. Just a tiny bit of an obsolete plan.
>Russia joins NATO
>China shits 4 billion pairs of rag pants
>I rike NATO ret me join!
>all major world powers allied
>let everyone else fucking rot
it could be like that movie with the mexicans but it would be NATO (with China, Russia, and Best Corea) in space and everyone else (dirt farmers, Africa, goatophiles) stuck on the planet. It could be like a "primitive origins homo sapiens nature preserve", just make sure they don't get any airburst HE-Frag 7.62x39. I want all that shit for myself.
>crazy Russian designed weapons
>crazy American designed weapons
>cheap, kinda-reliable Space Norinco copies of both
>MFW range day is like Perfect Dark weapon trials
>>28231910
they are. practically all aircraft designs are copies and developments of something else, just like everything else in engineering.
the whole idea of this thread is to make murricans butthurt, because they never, ever, admit that someone else could have done a good job, at least partly.
>>28229897
>using a Mac
>ever
>>28232364
Fucking christ the way that thing is wobbling around makes me think it's about to go belly-up and slam into the ground.
>>28232384
>The Yak-141 was a single engine design.
>Powerplant: 1 × Soyuz R-79V-300
>Lift engines: 2x RKBM RD-41
Literally three engines design.
>>28234056
>Talking shit on the Roses
U wot m8? Roses are still good, and I'm an American.
>>28230301
>protrusions/antennae everywhere
you do realize those antennas are for collecting data of the prototypes, right?
>>28234172
Check the video in the other post linking to it.
>>28234251
Then it's even more different then.
>>28232173
Wow... Lockheed just fucked around with angles to make it stealthy and they also made it chubbier. But yeah, it was definitely "inspired" by it.
Yak deserved 100's of millions from Lockheed... and Lockheed got a really good deal (they'll make a trillion off F-35 program over the decades).
>>28234593
You're a fucking retard.
>>28229944
The whole "stick additional engines on it" VTOL ideas kinda predate the Yak-43... like the Yak-38 for instance.
Zut alors!
>>28229897
both are failed waste of money, then yes.
reminder that this is what Lockheed's previous VTOL plane looked like.
>>28234593
Plz be bait.
>>28230491
that bird is pure sex.
>>28229897
My planefu is smiling at me, vatnik, can you say the same?
>>28234760
looks pretty sex
>>28232200
What is this even from?
>>28234787
What's interesting is that while googling for that beasty I tripped across this model that's purported to be based on a lockheed VTOL prototype, though I can't see any way it'd actually go up, no nozzles or vertical engines or anything, just the weird ass umbrella wing/control surfaces.
>>28230491
wow, wow, wow! anon! This is a blue board!
>>28230044
>Just crying about how it's total bullshit makes you look uninformed and assmad.
Well that image you posted doesn't say any of the shit you just said. No one's as mad they're just pointing out that that image is bullshit and changes nothing. GTFO with this projection bullshit.
>>28234801
Indian Jones Raiders of the lost arc.
>>28232384
This is about Yak-43, not Yak-141, imbecile.
>>28234835
The top was a rotorwith the triangles on the corner to change the lift
>>28234764
Bait? It's not even a conspiracy theory you jingoistic dumbass. Lockheed actually paid for Yak's designs.
>>28234760
god damn! that looks absolutely retarded.
Without Yak, Lockheed would have lost JSF competition. They did well.
>>28234730
Hi there.
>>28229897
>muh russians invented everything
An leftover from a bygone soviet era where soviets incompetently governed a starving empire through fear and murder.
Sure russia had free education but all they taught was revisited history of how some russian guy invented tv and lightbulb and edisson just happened to inveint it a day later/stole the idea.
When in reality, USA was an open society and thanks to that it was incredebly easy to spy on them, while CCCP was a paranoid closed dictatorship where anyone they didn't like or suspected was excecuted or sent to siberia.
It's well known how soviets stole most info off Aericans and how CIA is seen as incompetent since Russians had it on relative ez modo.
Look at the sabotaged computer incident for example.
TL;DR Russia is propably the most salty nation on earth. Have to be seeing how they got fucked by some small time balt nation and finns
>>28233409
It's not fat, it just looks cool imo, kind of hearkens back to that conventional American look, straight lines and sharp angles. Also if it was a girl it would be her...
>>28234928
>Without Yak, Lockheed would have lost JSF competition. They did well.
>LM tried to turn a starfighter into a VTOL
>therefor lockheed have to be stealing everything from the russians
ok vatnik
Remember
no russians in ukraine
>>28229897
What is with all this butthurt from Russians and Chinese towards the F35 and F22, the first real 5th gen planes.
When you started your own, they were greatest ever american piggu cant produce tech look at our 5th gen take on 1000 f35 and win
Then you produced 12 and however little of the other of them and you went "don't need more amerikasnki planes too inferior"
Then it became apparrent that you don't know how to make 5th gen and we saw them fail constantly and never get finished and you said
"lol look at all these articles that claim F35 is shit, written by american sources. look at all these articles claiming j20 pak fa are best planes ever written by putin himself"
And now when you got blasted again you resort to "lol americans stole it anyway, we've had f35 since 70's"
In the end, NATO still now have an MASSIVE, HUGE, HUMONGOUS technological superiority in terms of aviation and you are still salty. We've always known you can't produce anything that's not cheap, simple and easy tomake. Could it be you now know it too?
>>28233409
The thing is purpose-built. Form follows function. Its function is sexy, therefore its form is sexy.
>>28234779
Too bad it's the idiot grin of a retard, exposing its fan blades to radar, because it's such a shitty suboptimal design.
>>28235179
And in STOVL sucks its own exhaust, risking flameout.
>>28231907
Likely a cross wind or doing some form of maneuvering, albeit very slowly.
>>28232040
Illuminati DEBUNKED.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_IIIV
>Is yak rip off Mirage?
Stop being a fag, OP
>>28234928
>Lockheed actually paid for Yak's designs.
But they filed the patent for the lift-fan before they did any work with Yak at all. I'm not denying that LM and Yak collaborated on something, but it is outrageous and ignorant to suggest that LM didn't invent the lift-fan itself.
When did the Russians first proof of concept their lift fan?
>>28235762
And it has been pointed out many times in this thread, the similarities are superficial at best. Yak's design is an independent pair of miniature jet engines in the front, and includes no stabilization mechanism.
>>28235671
The Yak-43 and F-35 appear to be using a completely different lift system from the Mirage IIIV.
In either case there are significant design similarities between the two and lockheed's cooperation does lend credibility to the idea that design elements were certainly borrowed from the Yak-43. I've actually always noticed the similarities between the two aircraft but thought them to be purely coincidental. That being said, the two aircraft at this point in time are probably completely different, The Yak-43 was the plane that never was and switched sides and became the F-35.
If the Americans want to re-invent the aircraft then all the power to them. According to records the Yak-141 was actually an incredibly capable platform and it's a shame that it never saw any refinement or serial production.
>>28235803
The Yak doesn't use a lift fan.
>my non face when Russiaboo evidences consist of circumstantial evidence of LM talking with Yak and the fact that they look "similar" despite internal differences
0/10. You're gonna have to try harder slavboos.
Reminder that the Yak was a rip off of the Convair 200 that predates it
>>28235813
>>28235822
>They keep bringing up Yak-141
>>28229897
Yak, MiG, Sukhoi, Tupolev, Antonov, Ilyushin, Beriev are all ripoffs of American technology.
>>28235933
Yak-43 uses dual RD-41 jet engines behind the cockpit, not a lift fan, faggot.
>>28235979
Look at the blueprints >>28232151, imbecile.
>>28236018
A blueprint with no words and your intelligent inference? Trying way to hard to save face. Yak got BTFO.
>>28234801
Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu!
>>28235762
>But they filed the patent for the lift-fan before they did any work with Yak at all. I'm not denying that LM and Yak collaborated on something, but it is outrageous and ignorant to suggest that LM didn't invent the lift-fan itself.
Provide links to these patents.
Also, replacing a fucking engine with a fan isn't that big of a difference.
Also, you're fucking retarded because L-M didn't even exist back then. Dumb fuck.
>>28236721
>proofs
>>28236721
https://www.google.com/patents/US5209428, filed over a year before Lockheed and Yakovlev started talking.
>>28236721
>Also, replacing a fucking engine with a fan isn't that big of a difference.
Actually, its a massive difference, that allows the F-35B to nearly achieve parity with the A/C, rather than be a newer but still shitty fixed wing asset with little capability, like the Harrier.
>>28234365
Not the ones behind the nose cone, dipshit.
>>28236860
>https://www.google.com/patents/US5209428
That looks nothing like F-35/JSF. And Yak's design is even older than that. So while Lockheed patented one aspect of VSTOL, they acquired the rest from Yak... including the VSTOL vectoring nozzle design (that 3-piece rotation of nozzle is a direct copy of Yak's).
>>28236822
I'm not russian you retard.
>>28236868
No, it's not a massive difference. It's an evolutionary one. The bulk of the work is to make the plane lift off vertically in that configuration. That's all Yak's work. Replacing an engine with a fan is an optimization.
>>28237276
>No, it's not a massive difference. It's an evolutionary one.
>Implying they're mutually exclusive
>>28237265
>that 3-piece rotation of nozzle is a direct copy of Yak's
AHAHAHAHAHAH
https://www.google.com/patents/US3429509
Seriously all of the individual design elements were already being developed by multiple American companies in the 60s and 70s. Bevilaqua just put them all together and Lockheed went from there.
>>28237265
>I'm not russian you retard.
Yet you keep spouting their bullshit.
>>28236721
>changing a major feature of the design doesn't make a big difference.
>>28234918
>This is about Yak-43, not Yak-141, imbecile.
Pick a plane and stop sperging whenever somebody mentions a different one.
>>28238496
They use the same lift system design, so it's not like there's a difference in this particular debate.
>>28238496
They're evolution of a similar plane design.
>>28236018
What about it? The pic you're referencing isn't clear at all, and if anything it looks like it has the retard-tier venting system BAe developed for the P.125. There's no evidence to suggest that Yakovlev ever developed a VTOL fighter that used a lift fan instead of a lift jet.
What Lockheed most likely got from Yakovlev was data on control laws for vertical flight. While the aircraft may have had no commonality at all, their respective lift systems allowed for a more conventional layout. Lockheed, recognizing that Yakovlev's projects would have similar behavior in vertical flight, most likely bought off their data on control for vertical flight. I'm studying Aerospace engineering, and one of the more time-consuming aspects of designing an aircraft is getting the control systems down. Buying the data off of Yakovlev allowed them to circumvent the worst parts of development for the VTOL control systems.
>>28240023
Even then, the F-35 has two serious advantages the Yak designs don't: outboard stabilizing thrusters and a fly by wire system that can smooth the vertical flight profile faster than the pilot can react.
>>28235871
>VTOL Delta Can design
HHNNNNGGG!
>>28240138
>outboard stabilizing thrusters
source!
>>28242292
It's like 20 posts up you lazy git. See >>28235813
>>28237265
Just came into the thread...and you just got blown the fuck out, kid.
I have never seen somebody so completly shut down before.
>>28236721
Lets play a round of spot the vatnik
>>28229897
There he is
>Yak 43
>Yak 43 was never built
>Picture is of Yak 141
>Yak 141 has three engines compared to F35 single engine and has no lift fans
>Actually speculating about a motherfucking drawing of Yak 43
The shitposting is out of this world.
this thread
>>28244104
Nice try, Vatnik.
>>28244112
If I was a vatnik and wanted to piss you off, I'd post a pic of a Tyrone or Jose because that's what USA is now.
>>28246287
You you make a post that implies this is American unwarranted boasting instead of feeble Vatnik whinging about "superior stolen Russian design."
>>28246444
It's not stolen, it's purchased. Lockheed paid for it. US doesn't just steal like China...
>>28246287
Oh its the anon with the BBC fetish.
This really shouldn't be that surprising. Elemental science conducted at an academic level isn't classified and the Russians have historically been excellent at what's called "blackboard science." Things that, at their cutting edge, are best practiced independent of a computer. Maths, physics, and logic come to mind.
It took the extreme sophistication of American engineering to translate the conceptual to something with any utility.
>>28248354
It's still different enough that LM clearly did a lot of their own work.
>>28235934
"american" technology is a rip off of french technology.
Clément Ader's Eole, first flight of a motorised self propeled aircraft in 1890. yes 13 before the flyer. One of his students, Octave Chanute, a frenchman who later emigrated in the US, wrote a book which heavily influenced the wright brothers, as they themselves stated it.
Wrights brothers are the biggest fraud in the history of american technology. And the french invented aviation. Hell even that word was invented by Ader, ffs !
>>28249167
>8 inches
>Not controlled
Yeah no sorry bud, even the French admitted that the Wrights were the first, when they flew over France.
>>28249167
The record for controlled self powered heavier than air flight is the big one.
>>28249167
whoopty fucking doo you want a medal?
Italians made jets first but everyone knows the germans for making them better
>>28249029
>It's still different enough that LM clearly did a lot of their own work.
>LM
LM became an entity in 1995. There was no LM back then when Lockheed was working on VTOL.
And all they did is optimize the basic design. Since the US had lots of supercomputers, they could plug in the basic Yak-43 geometry and optimize all the angles by running it through the "stealth" equation. So yeah, they did a lot of work. But the basic premise that Lockheed took Yak-43 and optimized the hell out of it still stands.
>>28249506
>But the basic premise that Lockheed took Yak-43 and optimized the hell out of it still stands.
Except that isn't what happened at all.
>>28249506
>F-35 clearly built using experience from F-22
>F-35B lift system clearly different from Yakovlev's design, with only similarity being a dedicated vertical thruster of some kind behind the cockpit
>Hurr copied Yak-43
>>28229897
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
>>28249506
>Since the US had lots of supercomputers, they could plug in the basic Yak-43 geometry and optimize all the angles by running it through the "stealth" equation
lol
>>28234056
Too fucking true mate. At least the colonials are good at it, and not someone like Argentina.
>>28231976
>No. What they lacked first and foremost was computer processing and software design to practically apply the RCS math the real world. Read up on Echo-1 and the Hopeless Diamond. Those were the projects that made stealth possible.
What Soviets lacked was common sense to even consider radar stealth as viable technology. They simply ignored it and considered it insignificant tangent for physics,
The thing Lockheed wanted from Yakolev wasn't propulsion systems and why they funded further testing of Yak-43/141, but reaction control systems.
>>28230359
>heheehehhehhehhe
>>28249506
>But the basic premise that Lockheed took Yak-43 and optimized the hell out of it still stands.
The Yak had THREE ENGINES.
The F-35 has ONE ENGINE.
It isn't "optimized." It's a totally different design.
>>28229897
um, the yak has almost nothing in common with teh f-35.
>>28234137
Just throwing this out there, if the Russian Federation joined NATO, there would really be no need for NATO to exist.
Well besides for China but they aren't much to worry about.
>>28255897
>It's a totally different design.
kek'd. replacing an engine with shaft & fan is an optimization. the planes still do look the same. plus Lockheed paid for it so it's all OK.
>>28255749
>What Soviets lacked was common sense to even consider radar stealth as viable technology.
Can you cite some sources for that? Soviets invented stealth, after all.
And in that Ufimtsev documentary, he states clearly that he knew what he invented and his superiors knew what it was but they couldn't develop it because they didn't have the money & computers.
>They simply ignored it and considered it insignificant tangent for physics,
Confirmed for a low-IQ idiot.
>>28256525
NATO has <20 years left before it disbands. Social unrest and demographics changes will make it irrelevant.
>>28256557
>Can you cite some sources for that?
How about most of their aircraft having the RCS of a barn, including the PAK-FA?
>>28256557
>And in that Ufimtsev documentary, he states clearly that he knew what he invented and his superiors knew what it was but they couldn't develop it because they didn't have the money & computers.
There's your own answer. If it was a priority for the Soviets like it was for the US, they would have deeply classified his research and thrown money and CPU time at him until they had it working.
>>28256531
>the planes still do look the same.
No they fucking do not, let this stupid fucking meme die. The F-35 follows similar design language as the F-22.
>>28256531
> the planes still do look the same
So they all ripped off the harrier?
>>28256557
> Soviets invented stealth, after all.
The guy created and postulated the equations, the russians didnt do anything with them and he later came to the US where they were put to good use. But yes"the USSR created" stealth.
>>28260188
>The guy created and postulated the equations, the russians didnt do anything with them and he later came to the US where they were put to good use. But yes"the USSR created" stealth.
Creating the theory is 99% of the work. Even a pleb can then plug equations into a computer and create something.
That's why Nobel prizes are given to people who actually invent new theories and not to people who implement them.
>>28260277
>That's why Nobel prizes are given to people who actually invent new theories and not to people who implement them.
That's cute. Maybe you should do a simple google search before you inflict your stupidity on us next time, though.
ALL SCIENCE is the advancement and building upon the theories and observations which come before. Newton himself talked about shoulders of giants and all that.
Or are you trying to suggest that Ufimtsev birthed his theories on the relationships between incidence angle and return whole cloth from his mind completely outside the context of all other science?
There's being proud of your countryman's accomplishments, and then there's full potato retard tier vicarious self worth projection. Guess where you've strayed.
>>28260374
This. Ufimtsev's theories closely follow upon the 400 years plus worth of concentrated inquiry on the nature of light and electromagnetic reflection, refraction and absorption. The basic principles can literally be traced back to some of Newton's experiments.
Look at how similar these planes are! They must have copied! Figures filthy Japanese scum would copy god-tier German engineering! What a fucking rip-off!
