Why isn't straight pull bolt action a thing? Seems like an improvement in comparison to the normal bolt action.
Is it expensive or unreliable?
>>28033956
Expensive and more complicated.
Requires more complex machining and design work than rotating-bolt guns. Look at a Blaser R8 compared to a Mauser action.
>>28033956
The K31 is a good example of a properly-made straight pull. It takes good steel properly heat treated to make that bolt. Put another way- I wouldn't trust a K31 if it was made by anyone other than the Swiss.
Conversely, look at the 98 Mauser. The WW1 ones use steel similar to what we use for rebar nowadays. It's the design that makes up for the material deficiencies.
>>28034000
And what steel might that be?
>>28034010
Not the guy you're replying to, but isn't it carbon steel?
>>28034000
Metallurgy guy, why is the metal of an Arisaka so much lighter than German 98k steel?
>>28034028
ALL steel is carbon steel.
>>28034035
Must be the quality of Japanese steel after 1939. It's somewhat lacking in a component, can't remember which one.
>>28034010
He means in terms of softness, though rebar isn't exactly pig iron it's pretty low in the world of things one would intend to make a gun in.
>>28034050
Then what type of steel is it?
>>28034010
Chromium Nickel Steel (I don't have the percentages with me). To save money they tried to switch to chromoly for a few years, but after some broken parts they had to switch back.
The Mausers, on the other hand, used simple low-carbon steel of varying purity.
>>28034061
I'm not questioning the ductility of rebar, I'm questioning the steel supposedly used for these early Mausers.
>>28033956
>straight-pill
You know, if you change the position of that operating handle so that it instead of being attached to the rear of the bolt, that it was moved forward, and to change its style from a T handle to a palm sized grip, then you would have a pump-action...
many shotguns have them; not so many rifles.
>>28033970
>>28033964
Why not simply make a built up receiver and bull barrel on a spring loaded rotating bolt like the Bongistanti ARs in fudd calibers?
>>28034104
Because it would be expensive to retool machinery to make one and the would essentially be all the expense of making a semiauto but have none of the real world utility.
>>28034074
>pump action
It's a different type of mechanism. Straight pull rotates the bolt inside a sleeve.
>>28034074
That goes back to the Old West and the days of black powder vs. smokeless powder. Colt churned out some pump rifles (The Lightning I believe) and the initial batch were poorly made and liable to blow up. This reputation stuck with pump rifles and thus few were developed. Shotguns on the other hand, being low pressure guns in general (and designed by John Browning) didn't suffer from this stigma.
>>28034053
chromium, i believe. might be wrong tho
>>28034050
All steel has carbon in it. Not all steel is "Carbon Steel".
Idiot.
Soooooooooooooo.........
How is it more expensive?
take away the gas system in a semi-auto rifle and it turns into a straight pull. doesn't even need a recoil spring at that point either.
you can literally make a straight pull bolt action rifle with an AR barrel and BCG. add in a tube receiver and a hammer and you golden.
>>28034161
theoretically, a pump action could have an action bar that actuates a sleeve around the bolt, doing the tsame thing
>>28034074
>>28034161
>>28034180
>>28034225
>>28034104
you could, but the market isnt there
>>28034229
What happened?
>>28034203
>How is it more expensive?
its more expensive than designing and making a turn-bolt rifle
and an autoloader is more expensive to design and produce than any bolt action
>>28033956
It is in the UK. If you want any centrefire rifles they have to be bolt action, so we get a lot of semi-autos converted to straight-pull bolt action via fucking up the gas system.
That includes ARs, AKs, SVDs, all sorts. I've even seen a straight-pull Bushmaster M17S.
>>28033956
The straight pull action is strong, but not as strong as a traditional bolt action, so it required very good materials and manufacturing technique, that's a big reason it never caught on.
It's also a little more complex than your standard bolt action, not by much. So altogether, when you are turning out hundreds of thousands to millions of the things, those costs really add up. I remember the K31's cost during introduction was pretty expensive for its time, I want to say around 130 1930's swiss francs, I want to say, which was pretty expensive, but someone needs to confirm.
>>28033956
Its not an improvement
>>28034249
they made it shoot faster
>>28034305
well, it does shoot faster in trained hands
I have both and I find the bolt on the lee to be quicker and smoother.
I recall there being a modern straight pull rifle that's rather popular in Europe, but it's expensive.
>>28034296
Damn it, department of redundancy department, too tired.
Also, the straight pull sort of picked up a bad reputation during World War One with the Canadian Ross rifle, which according to that forgotten weapon's video is too finicky for general military use. That failure basically killed the only other large user for straight pulls other than the Swiss since the Austrians basically became a non-military power after the war.
>>28034265
>so we get a lot of semi-autos converted to straight-pull bolt action
buy a semi that's converted to straight-pull, then converted the straight-pull to semi with additional gas system..
it would look fucked up but it would pew-pew-pew-pew good enough to kill pro-abortionists I guess.
>>28034335
Blazer R8?
>>28034347
>Canadian
Geesh, those people cant decide if they are French or English, yet someone expected them to build a decent battle rifle.
>>28034104
Like the Browning maral? Factory straight-pull version of their modern BAR hunting rifle.
>>28034335
Blaser R8, R93
Strasser RS05
Roessler Titan16
Browning MARAL (BAR with no gas system)
>>28034353
That'd be great, but incredibly illegal. As I said, I think they're built as straight-pull bolt-actions so I'd think that the barrels would be lacking gas ports and things to make it harder to convert to semi.
>>28034396
It's a good rifle, apparently the snipers all used it because it's a lot more accurate than the Enfield, but it's easy for a hastily trained infantryman to assemble it incorrectly.
Namely the bolt can be assembled incorrectly and still be put back into the gun with the locking lugs out of place. Which is kind of a problem when there's mud everywhere and you have to constantly clean your rifle.
>>28034353
>pro-abortionists
You mean like /k/?
>/pol/ wants to run around shooting /k/
>>28034073
Rifle & Carbine 98: M98 Firearms of the German Army from 1898 to 1918 Dieter Storz
Material specifications for the M98
Ultimate 78.2 Ksi, Yield 36.9 KSI, elongation 15%.
Carbon LT 0.40%
Manganese LT 0.90%
Copper LT 0.18%
Silicon LT 0.30%
Phosphorous LT 0.04%
Sulphur LT 0.06%
Roughly equivalent to 1038- Typical uses include machine, plow, and carriage bolts, tie wire, cylinder head studs... concrete reinforcing rods
But without the modern consistency of 1038.
>>28034460
Only in very early models could the bolt be reassembled wrong. Military rifles were later versions or had the bolt pinned.
While political critics claimed injury there appear to be no actual injuries during the war because of the design.
Main problem with the rifle was shit ammo. Britain had many companies and countries making ammo and while it worked in loose Enfield chambers the Ross had a tight on spec chamber and shit ammo would not feed. McBride mentions locating specific lots of machine gun ammo that would work and stealing it for use in his Ross when sniping.
>>28034491
>Consistency
1038 has a huge margin for garbage like sulfur and Phosphorus. But thanks for the knowledge. I didn't wanna cut up a bolt just to figure this out.
>>28033956
It's an unnecessary complication to a simple, inexpensive design. Just one more thing to break and fail.
>>28034491
>cylinder head studs
That's some strong ass steel.
Straight pull rifles aren't any faster than a good turn bolt (often slower with awkwardly placed bolt handles like the K31 or M95).
They also lack any kind of primary extraction (a major deficiency). Guns like the M95 must be kept very clean to function properly.
>>28033956
If you were JUST getting started with guns, but were pretty turned on by the straight pull swiss rifles, is that a bad first rifle? I've seen thread after thread say ruger 10/22 or other 22 rifle, and wait on higher power rifles. The pack rat in me wants to get a swiss rifle anyway and stash it until ready. Is that a stupid waste of money for now, because there's plenty of stock, or something that would be good to do now, before they go the way of the moisins?
Thoughts?
>>28034782
Surplus only gets more expensive so if something catches your fancy you should go for it. And they are very well built rifles, a lot of the accuracy comes from the nice surplus ammo tht is currently more or less dried up but Privi makes some for a reasonable price and will continue to do so for the forseeable future so you are good in that respect.
I say go for it.
the only two decent straight pulls are
swiss guns
and the steyr m95
>>28034634
post a pic of your RFB's buffer faget
>>28034782
you can never have too many guns, buy em both
and fuck those people that say start on a .22
unless you're mr skeltal you'll get super bored of a .22 quickly unless you try to do crazy stuff with it. louder bangs are more fun
>>28034836
>not including the Ross
No gunz confuckingfirmed.
>>28034836
>Blaser straight pulls aren't decent
>>28034836
>no lee navy
>>28034879
>Maple Syrup detected.
>>28034838
Christ almighty...
