I measured out the ranges given in the specs for the different versions of the S-400 and plotted them out on a map centered on Latakia- the general area in which they have been deployed. This means that given over the horizon flight data, ect, it's at least conceivable that that the S-400s based at Hmeimim could target and engage US and Turkish aircraft just taking off from both Incirlik AND RAF base on Cyprus, as well as pose a significant threat to air traffic in and out of Diyarbakir without a detour. This doesn't mean they can arbitrarily hit anything in these radii, only that the missiles have the range to do so if properly guided.
The Russians have been setting up an Integrated Air Defense System in Syria including land and sea-based S-300s (such as the Slava class Moskva missile cruiser.) The meat and potatoes of IADS is networking sensors and command/control, which means RADAR aerostats, UAVs, GCI, network-capable fighters, AWACS, satellites, any of these can provide targeting data for a shooting solution. After that, when the target aircraft enters the range of the missile's own RADAR- it takes over for the rest of the flight. Very similar to forward observers lasing a target for a cruise missile strike, ect.
Funny, I threw together a quick map just for shit and giggles yesterday. Not very accurate, but still: 400km max range (orange), 250km max effective (red)
600km is only the max range of target aquisition.
The 48N6 version of the missile has a range of 250km at MACH 6.2 The 40N6 missile has a range of 400km. the 9M96E2 missile has a range of 120km.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_%28missile%29
Additional IADS info: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/100-61/Ch11.htm
Video showing missile tractor unloading and Pantsir-S1 EW platform nearby missile launchers deployed and in launch mode:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=91f_1448582778
>>28006266
mindhive. I like your radii better, but I threw in Airport codes and deployed unit designations.
Another large component or the RUAF IADS is the Moskva and its assigned ships, newly on station in the Med off Syria. The Moskva is a refitted and modernized Slava-class heavy missile cruiser and the flag ship of the Black sea fleet. The keel was laid down in 1976 and re-commissioned in 2000. Moskva displaces some 12,000 tons and places an extremely heavy emphasis on both missile AND projectile-based air defences.
With half a dozen AK-630 CIWS and a total of over one hundred Gecko and Grumble SAMs in seperate launchers and magazines, Moskva is intended as Russia's nautical flyswatter. It also mounts two different search & track AND fire control RADARs and a beefy electronic warfare system, all of which is top notch for Russia. Only the Kirov class battlecruiser seems to outclass it.
>>28006339
Only the Kirov. and several dozen US ships.
>>28006266
That's also just for targets coming right at the system and not maneuvering at all.
>>28006266
Acquisition of... Russian Awacs from known tracks? They even have AWACS there?
> forgetting that air defense is, at its core, at a disadvantage.
>>28006379
I meant from the Russian arsenal, and you must have just watched football- you sound like you have home team fever
>>28006405
explain
>>28006405
Hmm where have I seen this exact post before????
>>28006339
It seems that you are confusing Moskva for Pyotr Veliky for half that post
>>28006426
Air defense can ultimately be defeated from standoff range with relative ease.
If your strategy is to use a very small number of advanced air defenses, your strategy sucks.
>>28006227
>US planes are threatened
Only until America decides the fun ends. I hope you slavashits realize our satellites detected the tiny detonator going off on that plane over the Sinai. America has insane technology and much of it you won't hear about until 40-50 years later. For example look at project marauder and then try with a straight face to tell yourself they really didn't weaponize that shit.
>>28006432
Probably on /k/, for as long as /k/ has existed. Air defenses don't shit to reduce standoff offensive capabilities.
>>28006227
Yes, it's probably the most advanced system of it's kind. No, it's not an instant no fly zone; it's hampered by the rules of the game, namely that IADS lose effectiveness when taking loses very quickly, that being too aggressive and not aggressive enough are both losing conditions, that SEAD birds can basically engage and disengage at will because even road-mobile SAMs are slow as shit, and that MALD exists.
Literally who cares? The S400 could have the range to hit a bunny fart in Micronesia, Turkey and America are whole different balls of wax. Russia isn't getting themselves into a shooting war directly with the US
>>28006279
S-400 detecting the B-2 and F-22 that's funny and those silly Russians are implying they cannot be jammed keep in mind Russia nobody can un-BRRRRRT you
>>28006446
Wasn't trying to dictate strategy- just capability.
>>28006483
If Turkey violates Syrian airspace - they are "aggressors" and NATO has all rights to refuse to help.
>>28006503
>>28006452
>bad news
>slavboos actually think russia is willing to go to war with usa and turkey
The missiles are simply for political posturing. Nevermind the fact that russia can accidentally shoot something else because they dont have NATO IFF. Russia has an extremely high risk of drawing in more adversaries in a country surrounded by haters. Namely israel and saudi arabia. It wont just be turkey and usa that russia will have to worry about.
>>28006515
well Turkey is disobeying NATO rules and they are on their own if they do something stupid again
>>28006503
We had vatniks earlier saying that PESA cannot be jammed.
They literally have no idea what they're talking about and just spew any random bullshit they can think of.
>>28006515
That doesn't mean NATO will refuse to help them. They have already reaffirmed they will stand by Turkey because despite what neckbeards here think Turkey is an important NATO ally.
>>28006524
Cry harder slavaboo, Russia has nothing on China much less America. Youre alive because America allows you to be alive.
>>28006534
Yet NATO support stands strong for the Turks.
>>28006542
well they believe anything that the Kremlin tells them I mean if they said Putin could talk to sharks and shot ICBMs out of his nose they would believe it
>>28006542
Oh they can, absolutely the can. Dictating a strategy was never my purpose- only the range of the missiles and which allied bases could be threatened given the right guidance.
>>28006405
What is this disadvantage? For the sake of posterity.
>>28006591
that its stupid slavshit that never works, durr.
>>28006615
S-400 probably cannot save the slavshits from this
>>28006633
Not like it's needed. Even JSOW can be made to significantly stand off from S-400 with it's ER variant.
>>28006633
I know you.
>>28006591
It's a reactive force by nature. You're ceding the initiative to your adversary as any radar signal can be detected at a longer range than the radar antenna can get definitive return. This combined with radar horizon is what makes an effective IADS extremely difficult to pull off.
>>28006677
half a millisecond is a significant time advantage indeed, sir.
>>28006677
So like all defensive warfare, impregnibility is impossible and the worth of any defense can only be measured in how long it takes the enemy to crack the nut, essentially?
>>28006702
The same argument can be made for absolutely EVERY weapon system since man first picked up a rock. EVERYONE is ALWAYS striving to outwit and outgun the other guy.
>>28006227
it is a big fucking deal
what I would like to know is how they are moving them
is it over land?
my concern would be a ww1 type senario, where the russians would be forced to roll georgia to get land supply lines established
>>28006677
Excuse me;
>an effective ground based IADS extremely difficult to pull off.
is what I meant.
>>28006697
I don't think you truly understand how radar energy and detection actually works.
>>28006702
Essentially yes. It's always important to remember that when it comes to warfare, it's almost always advantageous to be the one dictating the tempo of a fight as you limit your adversary's options and increase your own. For the time being, aerial warfare is THE epitome of this and why western forces invest so heavily in their air forces.
>>28006721
Airlift. here's a video showing missile tractor unloading and Pantsir-S1 EW platform nearby missile launchers deployed and in launch mode:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=91f_1448582778
>>28006721
It will be simpler to move to Iran and operate from their territory. Suppling though Caspian sea.
>shoot down turkish airliner
>blame it on syrians operating the S-400
PLEASE
PLEASE DO THIS
>>28006227
>>28006755
>S-400's in Syria do not exist 24 hours later
>much crying into bottles of vodka was had
>>28006670
>>28006676
I'd prefer watching missiles jump out of the fucking ocean and kill vodka fuckers and maybe a javelin or TOW would be fun to watch too
>>28006769
thanks for the new desktop wallpaper here is one in return
>>28006753
>It will be simpler to move to Iran and operate from their territory. Suppling though Caspian sea.
It would be simpler to airlift them to where ever you want them in An-124s.
>>28006718
This isn't a hardware issue, it's strategy. Ever hear about Masada and the Romans? Having strong city walls is pointless if you can't challenge what's going on outside; you turtle up and it all turns into a big tomb so your attackers don't have to waste energy burying you.
>>28006825
Do you reallly think they compare?
>>28006279
>The 40N6 missile has a range of 400km.
400 km version is still in the testing and it goes slow.
Oh boy the guys monitoring electronic emissions are gonna have a field day with all that valuable emissions data.
GJ Turkey!
>>28006847
Not directly, but basically. The Romans built a ramp; the USAF has the backfield full of JSTARS and trucks for JASSMs. That's the whole point. If you let the enemy have a backfield full of juicy shit that you can't contest, he's going to find a way to crack your nut, inevitably.
>>28006825
I bet that you've never posted that in a thread sperging over the USN AEGIS system.
>>28006897
Yeah, but can you retort an argument with it?
>>28006743
interesting
>>28006753
the problem would be that if SHTF in the region, it could go a number of ways depending on the pollitics
A. russia goes it alone against turkey, everone stays out of the way
russian troop movements practically tollerated in other countries
B. large scale regional opposition to russian troop movements, everone fears russian occupation
C. western powers make moderate millitary intervention with air power and covert forces
this could threaten russian air and naval superiority
D. westers powers commit large scale ground forces
E. Russia sets of a slew of proxy forces, de-stabalizing the whole region
if I was russian, I would opt for E, make a mess of the middle east again, park their shit next to turkey, and let terrorists, kurds, syrians and ISIS fuck turkey
>>28006897
Try harder friend. CBGs have both strong defenses as well as far-reaching offense.
>>28006897
The carrier can go on the offensive and disrupt or retard attacks made against it - land-based IADS cannot unless there is a considerable air-presence backing it up. And we all know how an air-war between Russia and NATO is weighed in.
>>28006227
Turkey "accidently's" a M109 or M110 with RAP to the Turkmen groups. They then use it to shell the S-400's.
Ooooops.
>>28006897
I don't think you understand the very clear differences in capabilities between ANY kind of military vessel and a ground based SAM suite.
Aside from the fact that a ship at sea doesn't have to contend with ground clutter at all, it's also full of various other defensive systems that work in tandem such as their EW suites, defensive SAMs for engaging incoming missiles and threats, flares, chaff, maneuverability, etc while also being capable of conducting offensive actions. Where as a ground based SAM system is only capable of engaging incoming threats while having a distinctly smaller magazine capacity and generally less powerful radars due to smaller power generation capabilities.
So I'm genuinely curious as to how you think they're similar.
>>28006917
Maybe they could start backing the Kurds- who have been regularly buttfucked in Eastern Turkey lately. If I were one of the vodka-swilling thinking elves in the dungeons under the kremlin thats probably an Idea I'd have.
>>28006888
The Middle-East is saturated with US listening and EW stations along with aircraft monitoring emissions.
This is a blessing in the sky for those want to assess some of the capabilities of Russia's newest toys.
>>28006970
Still not enough range. Any piece of heavy artillery will be tracked and eliminated by RuAF.
>>28006591
Radar Horizon.
>>28006994
Also multiple targeting radars reading multiple bands slaved to multiple weapons systems- Moskva has SA-8s and CIWS as well.
What i find funny is the fact that while Russia is saying they will shoot down any future turkish jets attacking russian jets the turks are saying at the same time they're going to shoot down any future intruding russian jets in their airspace
I mean there is just no way this could not develop into WW3 anymore at this point, Pootin and his diplomats in TV interviews said the other day how Russia wouldn't go to war with Turkey over this but now i'm not so sure anymore
>>28007031
Arn't the Turkmen in the area around/just north of Latakia? With RAP both those pieces have a range of 40km. Yeah it probally won't survive more than one strike but hell if it knocks out the S-400's that is a massive black eye to russia.
>>28007063
Turkey would get cut loose by NATO before that happened, unless Putin is uncharacteristically stupid with his handling of the next few months.
>>28006557
>f-fucking slavaboos..
>muh Turkey
>muslimbro
>>28007077
NATO didn't condemn the turkish actions though (on the contrary), they also didn't formally state their condolences for the shootdown which got Pootin quite riled up apparently
This is basically being set up in a way that no party can unfuck it again without losing diplomatic face completely, same as 100 years ago
>>28007021
Wouldn't be a crazy or unusual strategy, infact it would be a typical proxy response for this sort of thing.
Especially given the YPG is a primarily marixist organisation, just a few dozen shipments of weapons and a bit of training would light a fire under the Turks asses.
I'm calling it now, Russia's gonna accidentally shoot down a French Rafale with its S-400s.
Throwing up an S-400 ain't going to mean shit. The longer ranged your missile is, the much easier it is to dodge.
>>28007103
You're forgetting that we're in an information age. World leaders will take the political fall, play coverup. Maybe some people get elected to take the fall and rot in prison, but invariably the public can be made to forget about the whole thing within a single election cycle.
>>28007072
>implying first hit probability
>implying Russians do not have MSTA-S and counter artillery systems
>implying Russians do not have proximity fuze jammers in area
>Literally discussing scenario with probability similar to Archangel Gabriel down from the skies and kill Russian SAMs.
>>28007184
Honestly. Russia is more likely to lose some S-400 hardware by losing an An-124, either to that rash of crashes of late, or to an enterprising Arabian youth with an Igla and a nice pair of legs.
>>28007251
They're already there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RCLOfC3FfM
>>28007125
I have a really devious idea. What if as a pre emptive attack, the missile is launched 'blind' that is with its RADAR inactive. With nothing to trigger a military aircraft's radar warning reciever- the S-400 becomes as difficult to track as an IR guided manpad- albeit a bit larger.
So you fire it giving manual guidance based on open source TPDR transponder code information available online- so you either attack commercial traffic or military planes that still have their TPDRs turned on- mainly your HVHAA's- your big planes.
Then the last few tens of miles from the target (or if you lose contact), activate the missile's active RADAR and suddenly there are RWRs going nuts.
>>28007304
That's exactly how the serbs shot down F-16s in yugoslavia.
>>28007282
Surely you realize that a system as deep and sophisticated as S-400 has a logistical train. It could be parts for all we care, the potential for S-400-related shipments to get lost in transit still exists.
>>28007310
Have any keywords or links I can look up? I really want to read more on this.
> Could be
>>28007330
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FusEcHnXZbU
>>28006227
The S400 won't do anything against NATO aircraft and you know that OP.
We fly Raptors though syria, over damascus, they can't see them, they can't hit them.
I'm eager to see NATO pilots escorted by dudes with sks.
proof or full of shit
>>28006339
So what could one of those bazalt ASM systems do to the CDG?
>>28007379
If the cruiser gets in range to launch them, it could be nasty. That's the big if though, because the carrier can be very far out of range when the cruiser gets jumped by two Hornets and a Growler flying below the radar horizon.
>>28007411
>flying below the radar horizon.
This is not a thing that happens anymore.
>>28007419
Because there's been no threat of SAMs for the most part. But when there is, yes they do indeed fly below the radar horizon when they might be in or near something's threat envelope. Libya, anyone?
>>28007419
Why's that? Seems to be a simple, inexpensive way for planes to get the drop on ships for close launches.
>>28007023
>>28006888
hehe you guys are right,and It always amuses me how the slavs and their shills are so short sighted. If they turn on that radar, NATO ELINT gets a goldmine. If they never turn it on then the system has no use. Russia will most likely play to their home audience by turning on this system, and give NATO valuable intel abut how their best missile systems functions along with teaching us exactly how to jam it.
All of this for the price of one AIM-120 =)
>>28006670
>Not like it's needed. Even JSOW can be made to significantly stand off from S-400 with it's ER variant.
Dude, we are in an era where missiles can be shot down. The JSOW is not a missile; it's a big-ass fucking bomb, very easy to intercept and this is well known.
... on the other hand, doctrine is to ripple-fire anti-radiation missiles at the enemy; keep a steady rain of them falling on the enemy to suppress them. The JSOW is also a massive cluster bomb so it can obliterate an entire SAM battery - all TELs and radar/command vehicles - in one hit.
>>28006677
SAM systems are meant as an area denial weapon, not to actually shoot down planes and shit.
>>28007444
This is a good train of thought. On a different note will there ever be a time where nato is superfluous as it is allied with its nemesis
>>28007469
Take my comment in its context; gone are the days where you needed Tomahawks to outrage strategic SAMs when a weapon in the 1000-lb class can do so handily. What used to take a sub or ship can be done by any tactical or strategic aircraft.
>>28007310
only one F-16 was shot down in that conflict. Further, >>28007304 wont work; however, you can manually aim and fire the missile, ie not trying to feed it position data, simply launch it ballistically, so that it ends up in the general vicinity of the target plane before at the end activating you radar, but its risky because if you miscalculate the missile can easily end up missing by miles.
>>28006227
Cool, now considering the amount of ISTAR we have in region, we can play with it and learn things about it, stuff that may allow us to jam it.
>>28007476
You still need the threat or there is no area denial.
>>28007444
>AIM-120
They used an AIM-9.
>>28007573
They haven't said what they used.
>>28007444
Calling it now, this was masterminded by the Pentagon with the Turks playing their designated role as victim.
>>28007556
So launch some long range SAM SPAM like a bunch of V2s using simple ballistic trajectory principles- put Sir issac Newton in the driver's seat then turn the targeting radars on at the appropriate time and let the missiles eat what they can catch.
Its really crude but it would certainly fuck up a pattern.
>>28007570
Right, but it depends on what NATO is willing to risk versus what Russia is. NATO isn't willing to risk a single plane, whereas Russia views their manpower as more disposable since they wouldn't have the same sort of shitfit back home.
>>28007311
There were reports about S400 elements deployed earlier. They could have command vehicles and radars before.
>>28007584
Fox News (I know, I know) announced it as an AIM-9. Which, considering everything, is what makes sense. It's what I predicted, anyways. Said plane would have been fired at from close range by Turkish F-16s. Of course the weapon of choice would be the AIM-9. Plus, the AIM-9 doesn't give radar lock warnings.
>>28007606
Yes, but the long range missiles are very expensive, hell S-300 missiles are more than a million each, and the S-400 are even more expensive
>>28007640
Sky news originally called it an ASRAAM, but this wasn't long after the initial incident. Russia I believe still claims it was a SAM.
>>28007647
Moreover, with the way passive detection is these days, that kind of blind launch would put the whole battery at risk.
>>28007640
True, but that's assuming the Russian RWRS work and that even if they did, they would have been so far into the no escape zone as to not make a difference.
>>28007647
I think you're missing the point though. In that scenario shit has gone well past the point of caring about an assload of rubles. To get in that situation to begin with youre in a bad situation if you want to fuck up commercial traffic as a military tactic.
>>28007680
Russians and Americans gauge risk differently. And like I said >>28007697, shits already getting too out of hand to really want to mitigate risk.
Just a scenario thing.
>>28007672
Turkey doesn't even use the ASRAAM.
>>28007683
That is true. However, you'd also be in the NEZ for the AIM-9 as well. I mean really, it's a picture perfect AIM-9 target. In my mind, there's no way that the pilot used anything other than a heater of some sort. The AIM-9 is the only one the Turks have (to my admittedly limited knowledge of the Turkish military).
>>28007718
Maybe, but that might not be for the best. I can't imagine any scenario where making an iffy shot like that is worth letting an F-35 see the missile go up.
>>28006398
They have the ship-based WACS there already. AWACS can also be deployed if needed. But there's no reason to attack planes inside Turkey airspace unless a real war break out.
>>28007184
>proximity fuse jammers
>jamming a mechanical system
God damn I hate you vatniks fucks that make up the dumbest fucking bullshit.
>>28006515
Not if Turkey can proof aggressions from within syrian borders and decides to retaliate these aggressions.
>>28006557
Eventually NATO is going to fall apart. Some day soon, the leaders of the US are going to realize that the Middle Eastern members of NATO are not our friends.
>ISIS training camps in Turkey
>Al-queda/ISIS funding coming from the Saudi Royal family
>Pakistan military is openly sympathetic to the Taliban
>They fund our enemies like the Soviets did
>>28007082
Cry harder, I'm a white american
>>28009689
NATO will fall apart if it does as you suggest and leave Turkey. Turkey is infact an important ally to NATO and there is really zero chance they are dropping them. Turkey helped USA in Korea when few others did and America hasn't forgotten. USA already knows Turkey has their own path to take which is why they are backing Turkey in shooting down this Russian plane and will probably continue to back them for the next ones they shoot down.
tldr NATO supports Turkey and that's not ending anytime soon not matter what slavaboos say
>>28006227
>S-400 SAMs could be very bad news for US and British airmen in Turkey and the Eastern Med
Are you implying that Russia would ever try and shoot down US/UK aircraft?
Because thats not a wise strategic move.
NATO is going to allow them to fuck with Turkey, especially indirectly, because they didn't follow NATO ROE at all during that shootdown, can't apply article 5, can't expect us to help them on this one.
Shoot down an RAF Eurofighter or USAF F-15?
They would pay for that, dearly and immediately.
>>28009716
>dropping them
US won't drop them. Greece, Romania and Bulgaria will drop them as soon as they can. You don't understand how badly are Muslims seen in Balkans, to even suggest to people that they should fight for Erdogan's neo-Ottoman dreams would be a political and maybe even literal suicide.
So nearest NATO ''allies'' won't join Turks.
I'm not gonna speculate about the rest of NATO, but it seems to be only Americans would willingly support Turkey. Europeans, especially given current climate, probably wouldn't.
>>28009776
Also, to explain, I'm talking about scenario where Turks keep provoking Russians.
Russians now got AD system in Syria, and Turks are cockblocked from intervening. If they try, my scenario applies. No one except maybe USA would back them.
Maybe not even USA.
>>28009776
They can't do shit without the council approval. I have property in Europe, especially in the Balkans. There is just as much hatred for Russians as there is turks in the Balkans. Also if article 5 is invoked Greece Romania and Bulgaria have no choice, they send troops or risk getting kicked out of NATO, that's not a risk they want even though they don't agree with Turkey there is a lot at stake for not supporting them. If they were to remove Turkey they need 100% support to do it and that will never happen.
>>28009801
>there is as much hatred for Russians
...
I live in Balkans you dolt. No one would fight for Muslims, especially not Turks. Piece of paper wouldn't change that. Getting kicked out of NATO, who the fuck cares?
>>28009822
I have property in the Balkans too. That's funny because Romania is definitely not going to risk leaving because NATO is placing a division to protect against the Russians. It's not about fighting for Muslims its about fighting Russia and there are still a lot of people in Europe that totally despise Russia, much more than Muslims. The only people in Europe to blindly support Russians are Belarus and Serbia. Neither of which are relevant. Sans a few states much of the Balkans is in NATO and they will not risk losing Americas protection no matter how butthurt you are.
>>28009822
If they are in NATO they won't have a choice unless they want to leave NATO and not many countries want that. Can you name any countries that are just waiting to leave?
>>28009838
>I have property
>that makes me an expert
How about no faggot? Also, Putin's propaganda is smart, modern Russia is seen as strongly Orthodox country, and that appeals to many in Balkans.
What political elite did doesn't reflect what people think. Joining NATO is simply seen as economic and political bonus, at least it was seen as that. There's no real connection to West among these countries. Except in Greece, but Greeks absolutely hate Turks. In Cold War, sure, because Greeks would fight commies, not Russians.
But right now, especially given how things are going on in Europe with Muslims, no one would support Turkish aggressive actions. Especially given how Erdogan and his associates act, and what they say. ''Mosques are our barracks'', lmao.
You vastly overestimate the hatred of communism, and you vastly underestimate the silent hatred of Muslims.
You can be deluded if you want, but ask any average Bulgarian, Greek or Romanian what does he think about Muslims. Not IRL, because no one will be open about it. Ask them on internet. Be surprised.
>>28009844
Being part of NATO during peace is same as going to die for Islamist Erdogan and his cronnies? Are you really that dumb?
>>28009801
Article 5 doesn't force anyone to send troops.
>The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.
>>28009822
>thinking that your personal opinion matters when it's a nations status, trustworthiness, etc on the line and directly affects other nations willingness to deal with them in the future
>>28009851
>implying I don't spend a quarter of every year there
>implying you leave your hovel so you know what people around the world think
As I said their views don't matter, when NATO calls they will go. Greece is totally irrelevant as a member of NATO, Romania won't do anything to risk the new division that is bring placed there, Bulgaria is a wildcard but if they want protection they will fight. Do you think every country that went to Afghanistan supported the war there?
>>28009866
>implying they have a choice
>>28009871
You're absolutely right they don't have to send troops because some NATO countries have no military, but NATO is required to help and USA (read NATO) already back up Turkey on this. And will continue to do so.
>>28009871
>Article 5 says that the response may include armed force, but it does not mandate it. All that NATO actually promises is to take “such action as it deems necessary” to restore and maintain security. That could be anything from nuclear war to a stiff diplomatic protest.
>>28009851
Bulgaria has a ton of Muslims, as does Greece, fuck off serbturk
>>28009879
Bulgarians will fight, they don't want to lose the defense shit they signed with the USA while bush was in power
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_joint_US-Bulgarian_military_bases
The only country on that list that wont help is Greece and that's probably for the better as they would ruin everything
>>28009879
>implying they have a choice
...are you literally that retarded?
>Muslim
Oh, right.
Anyway, how do you fucking expect someone to force someone to fight for Turks?
I love you didn't deny my ''Islamist'' argument, because you know it's true. You also know what Turkey does in Greek territorial waters, you also know how they still occupy 40% of Cyprus.
I don't care where you spend your time, no one will tell you in face that they hate Muslims when you're Muslim. Behind your back, they will. And I know that exactly because I leave my hovel.
>>28009883
>ton of Muslims
10% Turks. Hated by Bulgarians.
>Greece
1.5% is the biggest estimate.
I'm not even a Serb you retard, I'm a Croat. And I'd rather shoot myself in the foot than help Muslim shits.
But keep being deluded.
>>28009888
>bulgarias president called it a strategic security investment
>dumb serbshit actually thinking they are willing to risk this
I knew serbs were retarded but holy shit
>>28009888
Yes, losing defensive shit is so scary that Bulgarians will rush to die for those who raped them for 5 centuries.
Once again, you people don't know shit about Balkans, or even Europe, judging from your naive ideas.
You know that in 1999. while Milošević was butchering Albanians in Kosovo, Greeks supported him in various ways, risking being kicked out of NATO?
NATO is in Balkans for 20 years. Communism was for 50. Muslims lasted centuries. To call someone Turk is a curse here.
>>28009896
They don't have a choice and they wouldn't be fighting for Turks, it would be for NATO. I already said Greece is totally irrelevant, it doesn't matter if they are in NATO or not they are pretty much a failed state at this point. I'm white you can't even tell I'm Muslim until I tell you. There is nothing to address to with your islamists statement, even many turks don't want him in power because they want a secular government. Stop watching RT, this is their arguing points and its hilarious.
>>28009907
They are required to support Turkey ior get kicked out of NATO, despite what your butthurt makes you feel Bulgaria doesn't want this and some sporadic protests won't stop it either. Again Greece is totally fucking irrelevant if NATO cared they would have done something to stop Turkey instead of laughing at the dumb greekshits
>>28009896
>hurr Greece Bulgaria and Romania won't support Turkey
You haven't provided a single shred of evidence to support this. Serbs are dumb.
>>28009933
I like how I can type in Greece Romania Bulgaria nato and the first results are rt. RIDF is ITT and its easy to tell who they are.
>>28009716
You are a filthy muslim AND a fucking slav. Nothing even close to a white person you mongrel.
>>28009933
>>28009944
Tripdubs for truth
>>28009907
>calling someone a Turk is a curse here
Funnily enough the people that do this the most are serbs and they are neoturks
>>28009945
So because I'm Muslim and slav that changes my skin color? Wat?
>>28009933
>it would be for NATO
Hahahahahah. You think people here are retarded?
Jesus Christ man, you are one special kind of idiot.
I'm not even sure people would care if Russians ATTACKED Turks. If Turks did shit first, no one would support them.
>I'm white
Every Muslim in Balkans is white. No one likes them nonetheless. Islam is a fucking ideology, it's not a race.
>many Turks don't want him in power
#notallmuslims
No one gives a fuck. He is in power. He neutered the only realistic opposition to him, the Turkish army.
Now if this was Cold War Turkey opinions might be different. No one would support Erdogan's Turkey.
>stop watching RT
Nice meme. I already said I live in Balkans you idiot, I'm a Croat.
>They are required
He keeps repeating this shit, as if people will magically override their centuries worth of hatred for Muslims and go fight for Islamist simply because their government signed some alliance treaty.
And ESPECIALLY if Turks start shit, which the opening point of my post.
Are you seriously that much of an idiot to believe Christians in Balkans would bleed so Erdogan and his supporters can play neo-Ottomans?
How dumb do you think we are?
NATO is just a cool political choice. They simply offer more than Russians do. But there is no sense of loyalty towards fucking NATO.
>>28009942
>>28009947
>say I'm a Croat
>Muslimshits keep foaming about Serbs
...
>>28009956
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnSZoj8sQWE
Sve je jasno ko ste i što ste.
Idite u Tursku ako je toliko volite, poturice smrdljive.
>>28009689
the only "middle eastern" NATO member is Turkey.
Pakistan's not in. Saudi's not in
>>28009689
>Some day soon, the leaders of the US are going to realize that the Middle Eastern members of NATO are not our friends.
Only one of those countries mentioned is in NATO and there is alot of shit Turkey can do before they get booted out and screwing Russians isn't one of them. Pakistan and SA are allies to US but thats not going to bring down NATO as a organisation.
>>28009958
So they risk losing NATO membership, you haven't listed anyone willing to do this, and don't name Greece again because they aren't big enough to matter
>every muslim in the Balkans is white
Nope, shows how much you really know.
>I live in the Balkans so I can't watch RT because I'm a croat
Lol okay.
They are required and you have yet to disprove that.
>there is no sense of loyalty towards NATO
Afghanistan shits all of you.
>>28009967
They are one in the same, both are nazis
Turska ide tebi :)
>>28009980
>Afghanistan
>he's unironically comparing sending few troops on a peacekeeping mission to fighting a massive war for Turks
Now I know you Bosniaks are dumb fucks, but these are new levels of idiocy.
>Turska ide tebi :)
Neka dođu, ali balije to neće dočekati.
Hahahah, kako si brzo promijenio priču od ''nisu svi Turci takvi'' do zazivanja Turaka na Balkan. Takvo je većina muslimana u Bosni. Znamo se balinče, ne možeš meni prosipati te glupe priče :)
>>28009967
>>28009980
both are nazilovers and both tried to prevent Bosnia from getting Independence so they can split it and utterly failed
>>28009995
>Afghanistan was a peace keeping mission and not a warzone
Look at this retard
>>28009978
I guarantee you right now that if we kicked Turkey out of NATO Putin would drop all this though guy shit and would be in Turkey the NEXT day on a goodwill mission.
Just imagine we loose Incirlik Airbase and the NATO radar stations in the Black Sea coast area. Then we loose our first strike nuclear missile in Turkey. Not only that but NATO looses the second largest army in its inventory.
The US looses one of its partners in the F-35 program and the TAI facility the only factory outside of the US that can assemble a complete F-16 from scratch and the factory that was supposed to produce about 20% of the export F-35s.
Of course Russia would be virtually un-contested in the black sea and could really fuck over Ukraine 100x harder then today.
Heh, this thread is becoming Balkans in nutshell show, only they can still be butthurt about shit that happened over hundreds of years ago.
>>28009995
Un peace keeping missions =/= NATO invoking article 5, hiow ironic you prove your an idiot then go on to call me a dumb fuck, lol!
>ustashit is mad
Typical faggotry from croat boylovers
>>28010003
None of this matters because Greece Romania and Bulgaria aren't willing to help!!?!?!
>>28009995
>hurr they have no loyalty to NATO!!!!!
>given an example
>hurrrrrrr durrrr that doesn't count!!!!!!!
haha good way to accept defeat
wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya
Yeah, the only thing I can see Turkey getting the can out of NATO is them go full blown ISIS mode and what I understand Turkish military is rather secular so not seeing that happening in near future.
People around here ought to play some DCS to realize how unimportant is max range when it comes to engaging aerial targets and how inefficient are massive, large GtA missiles against fighter/attack planes.
Guys, the 200-400ish kilometers don't matter at all. No clear vision = no lock. The area is full of small mountains and hills. Fat missiles with long range are meant to deter larger planes, transports, bombers at high altitude, not nimble striker or fighter craft.
That being said, the S400 is quite a piece of tech art.
>>28010038
And all this talk about NATO NOT defending Turkey is just Vatniks wet dreams and butthurt about the fact that Russian plane got shot down and their counters have been "Let's screw our own industry even more by banning Turkish imports."
>>28010000
How the fuck am I wrong?
Do you understand the difference between fighting Taliban, and fighting FOR Erdogan?
>>28010014
>ustasha
But Mehmed, your grandfathers were in ustashas :)
Back when they were ''Muslim Croats'', which happened right after being ''Muslim Serbs'', and before that ''Turks''. And from 1993, ''Bosniaks''.
>>28010035
Once again, you can't compare shit like that with what I'm talking about.
No one will help Turks. Deal with it.
>>28010068
>defending
I never talked about defending you mouthbreathing retard. I specifically talked about Turks starting shit and then crying for help. No one would help them, at least from Balkans.
Even if they were invaded, I doubt anyone would give two shits.
>>28010038
>Turkish military
Neutered long ago by Erdogan. Jesus Christ I'm talking with total ignoramuses here.
>>28010069
Bosnia has existed for hundreds of years before 1993, sorry you suck at history, also many bosniaks fought in the partizans as they were founded in bihac which is predominantly Muslim
>no one will help the turks
That's just your retarded opinion because USA has already reaffirmed they will help Turkey because they view the shooting down of the plane as justifiable
>>28010069
>1993
>bosniaks
>yet Bosnians still fly the flag of tvrtko
Nigga u dum as fuck, I hope you realize by looking at genetics Bosnians and Croats are literally the same people and Serbs are similar but have turkblood
>>28010086
Yes, as a Croatian state. Those ''Bosniaks'' were Croats, and some Serbs in east.
>Bosniaks fought in partizans
Proofs. Irrelevant numbers.
>USA
I'm talking about Balkans Alija. Read.
>>28010094
Shh, no damage control. Unlike in 90's where we helped you only to receive nothing in return, we'll be smarter next time :)
Also, who the fuck cares what flag you fly, you're Muslims. And looking by genetics, everyone in Balkans is fucking same.
I share more with a Serb than some filthy Muslim who's still dreaming about Turkey coming back, ie. most of ''''''Bosniaks'''''''''''.
>>28010074
>No one would help them, at least from Balkans.
News Flash, NATO is not just the three countries nearest Turkey you mentioned earlier. Alot of the Western and Middle European countries in NATO would bitch about it but would help out if US will, I would imagine Poland would be the first one onboard the FUCK THE RUSSIANS boat saving turks.
>>28009716
Yeah...until the US figures out Turkey has been supplying ISIS with material support and helping them kill Americans.The Media knows this, the Russians know this, the US military knows this, the CIA, FBI, NSA all know this. The only people who dont know ot are the ones with their fingers in their ears going "LALALALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU SO ITS NOT TRUE" (looking at you Obama and Congress). But eventually someone is going to get pissed off.
>>28010121
Yes, Poles are big fans Muslims :)
>>28010115
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Partisans#Bosnia_and_Herzegovina
Also the Croatian kingdom didn't pass too far into Bosnia, you can look at maps of it my friend
>looking by genetics everyone is the same
Nope , Bosnians and Croats maybe.
>>28010127
Well they only dislike muslims, they downright HATE russians so anything that fucks over Russian interest in the world will get Poland onboard.
>>28010125
You think the USA doesn't know? You think their satellites can detect the small IR signature on the plane over the Sinai but they don't know what the turks are doing? Topkek they are compliant with the turks
>>28010115
>as a Croatian state
Lol they didn't control that much territory and most definitely not all of Bosnia
>looking by genetics everyone in the Balkans is the same
Haha no, Bosnians and Croats have very similar genetics, Serbs possess the same haplogroups but the proportions are totally off. Bosnians and Croats are half slav and half whoever was there before the slavs migrated.
>we helped you in the 90s
After we kicked your asses in central Bosnia and you realized your plan with Serbia will never succeed, Croats are parasites, at least Serbs are vocal about what they plan to do.
>>28010132
Your own article says 70% of Bosnian partisans were Serbs.
>m-muh genetics research pulled out of my ass
No one cares.
>>28009716
>Turkey helped USA in Korea when few others did
may want to check your facts there, Turkey wasn't even part of the UN command. Canada and the UK helped more than the roaches for god's sake.
>>28010184
and where did I imply that bosniaks constituted the majority?
>>28010192
They were still important allies, I think the point he is making his that the USA won't forget that turks fought for them in Korea.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Brigade
>>28010216
most people in the USA don't even know the korean war happened
>>28010178
Sure thing my friend.
Anyway, just remember: no Croats to save your ass next time. Have fun.
>>28010216
also: The US has never had an ally they didn't betray
>>28010221
>Croats
>saved us
That's a good joke.
>>28010223
Israhell?
>>28010063
wow. Both massive AND large?
>>28010063
Doesn't know what Integrated means.
>>28010216
because the US is totally bothered about Columbia for helping them, it was a UN taskforce lead by the US these countries weren't helping just because they wanted favour with America.
>>28010229
Yeah you fared great in war until HV came to save you.
Your government controlled what, few cities? But it's not like I expect gratitude from Muslimshit :)
>>28007105
The US is literally funding, arming and directly assisting the YPG as we speak, and the Turks aren't complaining, as far as I know.
>>28010251
We were attacked by two counties ies, kicked your asses and then fought with you tons stalemate against the Serbs, Bosnians were totally surrounded with absolutely no way out but to fight, even if we had no cities that doesn't matter if people are willing to fight, over half of the ARBiH was besieged and we still fought you and the Serbs to a truce
>>28010291
Well then, fine, enjoy your glorious victory and praise Allah on your 23% of territory.
Croats in Bosnia will soon get third entity, and then Bosnia will slowly be dismantled :)
>>28010311
Bosnia is a failed state but there won't be a third entity, there will probably be another war soon but this time it will be different because we have guns and won't be surprised, everyone in my village has some rifles, grenades, and or OSAs
>>28009716
Mudslim is spelled m u d s l i m
Do it right next time shit skin
>>28010311
HAHAHAHAHA I have been lurking in this thread and you are the biggest assblasted croat I've ever seen. Stop pretending that your country even means anything in the grand scheme of things. If Croatia refused to fight no one would even notice. I swear the Balkans is a shithole that contributes almost nothing to NATO. Your people need to be subjugated because of how fucking stupid you are.
>>28006452
We've had railguns, retard.
>>28010363
Project marauder wasn't a railgun, retard.
>>28009716
>I'm a white american
>>28010329
Everyone in your village will be shot in a ditch
You had the chance to be half decent off white people but you chose to be degenerate mudslims
Fucking brought it on yourselves
>>28010329
What war? Serbs already have defined borders, Croats too practically have ethnic borders, there will only be war if Muslims try something, like occupying whole Bosnia. And if that happens, we'll have a chance to ship you off to Anatolia so you can enjoy with your bros.
If you don't want that, be content with your 23% of territory :)
>>28010371
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARAUDER
Kill yourself.
>>28010428
plasma rails are different and don't use kinetic energy
>>28010456
They practically serve the same purpose.
>>28010371
Also: "hurr tell yourself we didnt weaponize it"
It was built from the ground up as a weapon, you fucking moron.
>>28010428
>>28010456
Should have mentioned they aren't kinetic, it shoots out a plasma donut that conducts an electrical charge, also they don't need to be coaxial like a railgun
>>28010456
They operate similarly but with plasma you can have it be linear instead of coaxially
>>28010478
Marauder was the military testing if plasma projectiles are even feasible, sure they probably built a gun to shoot it out of but that wasn't why the project was created.
>>28010125
>everyone who isn't Assad is daesh meme
>>28010495
No, but except Kurds they are mostly Islamists.
It's just that in comparison with IS, even Islamists look ''moderate''.
>>28006529
This. Russia is about to get obliterated. They deserve it.
>>28010510
>No, but except Kurds they are mostly Islamists
I find it curious that anons insist this but I have never seen one bother to make a list and indicate which were.
>>28010511
Obliterated by amazing American technology?
>>28010528
>Islamic Front
>Ajnad al-Sham Islamic Union
>Harakat Nour al-Din al-Zenki (Islamists)
>Fastaqim Kama Umirt (Islamists)
>Authenticity and Development Front (these are ''''''''moderate'''''''''' Islamists)
>Army of Conquest (Islamists)
>Muhajirin wa-Ansar Alliance (Islamists)
>Jabhat Ansar al-Din (Islamists)
This is Syrian opposition. FSA fights together with these people, and FSA is an irrelevant factor, and mostly Islamists.
>>28010539
There may be tons of bad things to say about USA but technology is definitely not one of them, especially compared to Russia.
>>28010539
>RSM-56 Bulava
>the missile had experienced 5 failures in 11 tests
Wasn't this thread about S-400s?
>>28010801
was but it devcolved sadly
>>28010683
>R-39M "Bark"
>Having failed its first three test firings the project was ordered abandoned by the Russian Security Council.
>The missile was later replaced by the Bulava missile system.
>>28010641
American technology is pretty junk, especially when compared to Russia, a country with an economy smaller than Mexico.
>>28010683
>this is the weapon that will destroy the T-14 Armata
>>28011227
I'm not biting that my friend.
>>28011253
Hey guys I found some cherry picked fuck ups xd xd xd
>>28011253
That's not a GBU-54, or an SDBII
>>28011253
>not the balloon video
>>28006227
Cruise missiles from standoff range win. Every. Single. Time.
>>28007520
Oh, I see what you're saying. It's something one carrier air wing can do. Which is significant in the context of France, which has one carrier air wing, but no massive Tomahawk-slinging battlegroup to surround that carrier with.
Yeah, the rise of the IADS has been countered handily by advances in weapon technology, indeed.
>>28011253
Note how the booster motor always throws the missile clear of the tube so if the rocket motor is too old and/or fails to ignite, the crew is safely out of the blast zone.
>>28006227
>S-400 SAMs could be very bad news for US and British airmen in Turkey and the Eastern Med.
Maybe that was Putputs plan all along? To sacrifice an old plane to field the S400 AA system to close syrian airspace for NATO planes. And Erdogans goons fell for it
>>28006515
>NATO has all rights to refuse to help.
NATO is lead by the US and if the US tells NATO to jump then they better jump.
>>28006452
>40-50 years
slavboos dont want to hear it but Americunts have some hightech shit up their sleeves. The quastion is why do they buy so overpriced from some private manufacturers when they could dictate them the buying price?
>>28006313
>30km (10,000ft)
Typical ameritard education.
>>28012651
Doesn't work that way.
>>28011253
The second to last one is French
>>28010510
bullshit. the PKK/YPG are follow a kind of anarchist thought based on bookchin murrays work, basically communalism: they go out of their way to have local level democracy & include the other groups in their territory as well as having gender equality: Rojave is pretty much Nordic tier progressive a.t.m. The only islamist kurds I've heard of are a small group working for IS & there was a tiny area in the south of Iraqi Kurdistan held by islamists during the civil war.
>>28010411
I what dreams do Croats have anything in Bosnia except western Herzegovina. You tried stupid shit in 2001 and that ended in failure. Bosnian Croats can do nothing and will get nothing and in next elections the socialists will win again and the Bosniaks will elect Croat president again and you still wont do shit. And Croatia will do exactly what US tells them to do, if US says go fight Russians you will go and die like you did in 1942.
>>28011721
France has Storm Shadow. It's no JASSM-ER, but it works.
>nobody has ever withdrawn from NATO before
What is France
>>28012848
You do know that Kurds have serious problems with honor killings, FGM. they are not some light of civilization. They speak of communalism because their plans for a national state failed. They are as much tribal and nationalistic as the Arabs just in this case they have good PR. They didnt start fighting ISIS when ISIS was wiping out FSA, cutting of heads, they only started fighting when ISIS came for them. They are better than ISIS but that's not hard.
>>28012899
No one netters except for the US, if US stands with Turkey the rest don't matter. For all east Europeans the same rule applies, if US says jump they will ask how high.
>>28012910
Wow buddy watch FACTS might hurt these Vice News kiddos.
>>28012899
A NATO member?
>>28012926
I like how you've had to change it from "everyone" to "east Europeans"
>>28012938
They withdrew and rejoined in 09.
>>28012946
When talking about NATO, east European countries don't get to say NO, UK will fallow US no meter what which leaves west Europeans which would most likely be neutral in line with their history.
And if US wanted Assad would be gone in a month and there is nothing Russia could do about it. People underestimate the shear military power US has as well as political and economic influence. No one can defy US is US is willing to do what ever it takes.
>>28012999
>"full membership"
France was very much part of NATO well before 2009.
Fun times ahead!
>>28013288
>.mil GPS
>Spoofable
Retarded
>Russians have the best EW systems in the world
Double the retarded
>>28013288
So how will they be able to tell Turk jets from American ones?
>>28013315
I guess maybe, MAYBE the pilots and commanders both russian and American tend to communicate about what and where are they going to bomb to avoid inconveniences.
They should. American ones dont bomb SAA or anything, they wanted to few years ago, but they didnt.
Russians bomb anyone who didnt vote for Assad, so things tend to be pretty clear so far.
Only Turks made a problem and i think, but cant really confirm that the Turks wont fly their planes to Syria anymore.
Dont even know what happened to turkmen snackbar rebels, or moderates as we the democratic and free people are obliged to call them.
>>28013288
>mfw an Arleigh-Burke in the Med turns on its fuckoff-powerful ECM suite
>mfw our strike grops begin Growling
>mfw we back Turkey with ELINT/ECM assets to signal our Displeasure at their fucking Ukrainian invasion bullshit
>>28010125
>until the US figures out Turkey has been supplying ISIS with material support and helping them kill Americans
You are a dense one arent you? The US knew from the IS back in 2012. They knew were they operated and decided that they would be left alone. Same case when the US ambassador was kille in benghazi. The troops there were ordered to stand down.
Listen you slavboo putin cocksuckers should awake from you sleep and face the geopolitcs as they are on the world. There is no good or bad as it helps you to achieve your goal.
Damn you muslim haters are nearly as dumb as the guys who you are complaining about
anybody think that with turkey air power being grounded the Kurd will take this chance to advance west to recapture the remaining border town between Syria and Turkey?
>>28016569
They'd have to cross a particularly large river, Daesh blew most of the bridges already I think.
>>28016569
not really. As much as the kurds would love to unite their cantons, they have shown no desire to control areas which do not have a significant population of kurds. Further, if they start the push, turkey would have cause to declare a safe zone and move in a few hundred tanks, apcs, and artillery pieces and completely shut it down. The legitimacy comes from the fact that the kurds would have to conquer land which is not kurdish, has not historically been kurdish, and has no desire to be kurdish.
>>28006279
>Pantsir-S1 EW
>Pantsir
>EW
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This is good, China will be able to get results from NATO and will grow larger.
>Is the S-400 really the death-dealing stealth-detecting destroyer of airforces that everyone plays it out to be?
No, but its highly potent. The Israeli's have been pressuring the Russians not to deploy S-300's to its allies in the Middle East for years, stating point blank they will put destroy any that are deployed. The S-400 is a better iteration of that package.
I'd be more worried what Israel does once an S-400 goes online in Syria, given their past statements warning Russia not to deploy its lesser iteration to the Middle East. for example, an S-400 in Damascus could intercept any planes taking off from Tel-Aviv in about 55 seconds. That's highly provocative.
I mean fuck Turkey, who cares about them?
Israel now has to either back down on its previous claims (which they wont do under Netanyahu, as his voter base is right wing Nationalists and Religious nuts) or they have to go and destroy one of Russias S-400 sites.
That's the real story about the S-400, fucked if I know why no-ones talking about it.
Regarding the S-400 system itself, it seems to be a decent thing on paper, but its yet to prove its worth.
>>28017622
The difference is that Russia is deploying them with Russian crews. Jews aren't gonna do shit and if the play nice Russia will trade Intel etc to keep them happy.
>>28017622
israel and russia are on good terms idiot. israel's concern was about russia supplying missiles to hostile states like iran. they don't have any issue with russians using them
>>28016569
That's exactly what they are doing. The haven't had any air threats for the pay 2 days for some reason..
>>28010539
>American ICBM technology
>Posts a string of space launchers
Its also a that people in this thread are thinking that a F-35's can out-jam a S-400.
The S-400 can jam more frequencies at once than an F-35 can. This isn't propaganda or anything, its just simple fact, based on the systems used, the F-35 will always lose a jamming contest against an S-400 based on the F-35's current AESA system, this isnt negotiable, its just simple fact until the F-35 either gets an upgraded array, or it gets an add-on ECM pod (which in turn lessens its stealth by increasing its RCS).
Hell, it's worried the Armed Services so much that they've had two House Armed Services committee meetings about the issue since the start of the year, but theres just nothing they can do about it until either the F-35 gets a block upgrade, or the F-35 gets a specialized EW variant, or the F-35 is willing to take the hit on its stealth characteristics and an ECM pod is developed that would suit its current electronic package (no, you cant just stick one from an F-18 Growler on it).
>>28016964
>desire to be kurdish
>Implying it's possible to convert to Kurdism
>>28016569
No anon, because its not currently deployed.
The S-400 is sabre-rattling. They won't take out a Turkish plane in Turkish airspace.
So how long until another idiot shoots down another civilian airliner?
