Why does this plane inspire so many feels? The way Canucks write about it, I imagine them sobbing on their keyboards. What happened?
Diefenbaker keked a nation it truly is depressing and marks the decline of our nation into becoming another State to the Burgers. Some great documentaries worth watching http://youtu.be/7sFRiacvNYo
I think it was our last attempt to actually create something that would validate our relevancy, but was basically obsolete upon creation.
Essentially the most advanced state of the art interceptor for its time all Canadian made ~15 000 jobs related to it and the supporting Iroquois engine (which never was tested in it), killed due to cost and political pressure from USA/NORAD to get bomarc missiles instead and onto buy from America. Canadian airforce still wanted them and the British were about to put in an order for a few but diefenbaker and the the kekservatives destroyed it and effectively pissed on our flag. Not only was it ordered to be canceled but everything relating to it had to be destroyed including photos including negatives and video. People were devastated. The bomarc turned out to be a failure and we ended up getting some voodoos instead for a lower price. Also got keked into signing a deal that says no major weapons system can be designed solely in Canada without American oversight/help. After AV Roe was dissolved nasa took a lot of their engineers to work on apollo programs.
Fun fact avros first flight was same day as Sputnik 1s oct 4th 1958 iirc.
Watch the documentary and disregard any contempt in my words, full disclosure, I hate what happened and I am a 5 generation cankek and this makes my maple syrup boil
No one really has any idea. It was outclassed by the F-106, obsolete by 1965, and representative of a massive intelligence breach.
Plus, the four they could afford to make wouldn't have been compatible with North American (read: American) defense strategy/datanet.
>>27959584
>it truly is depressing and marks the decline of our nation into becoming another State to the Burgers
I wish we could be great again.
We had something good going during WWII, but something went wrong around the 60's
>>27959655
Cankek*
Autocorrect pls go
>>27959655
F-106 and F-108 development made it irrelevant.
"Essentially the most advanced....state of the art...etc...."
Kek
>>27959548
>feels
You sound retarded and you're cheapening emotions by simplifying everything down to a single word.
>>27959662
kek
>>27959548
The MIG-25 doesn't really inspire that many feels, OP.
>>27959548
>>27959655
You're gonna end up buying the Super Hornet anyway, suck it up.
>>27959548
>What happened?
It turned out Canada did most of the work designing an interceptor for the Soviets.
>>27959655
>Essentially the most advanced state of the art interceptor for its time
in what ways
>>27959548
It's a pretty looking plane, at the end of the day.
>>27960924
>>27960933
It's a meme plane. The Arrow is presented as a tragic piece of technological art that was tossed aside because of ebul greedy Americans. In actuality, it was already outclassed by American contemporaries, the interceptor concept was well on its way out the door due to ICBMs, and the entire program was absolutely riddled with Soviet agents and leaks.
>>27960961
>>27960980
>>27959655
>Essentially the most advanced state of the art interceptor for its time
Wrong
>killed due to cost and political pressure from USA/NORAD to get bomarc missiles instead and onto buy from America.
BOMARCs were offered for free and the age of the heavy interceptor was over before the Arrow had its first flight. Get over it and do actual research other than watching that retarded docudrama The Arrow.
>>27960975
It probably would have stacked up decent against most similar planes of the type. Problem was that most were already introduced or have had their test flight years earlier.
Draken, Starfighter, Electric lighting and the MIG-21 all were up and running by 1960 i think. The Arrow would probably have required like 2-3 more years to be introduced.
>>27960990
>>27961429
>>27961412
Even then, none of the weapons that it was expected to field were anywhere near ready. The Sparrow II variant they were using in particular was doomed for failure from the start and they kept pumping money into it without batting an eye.
>>27961456
>>27959661
Embrace your largest economic and military ally. We need you as a Russia buffer.
>>27961497
>>27961469
Still, I can see why Canadians are a bit emotional about it. As a Swede, I kinda like that we make our own fighters, and SAAB has been a point of national pride. But we can do it with a shoe string budget thanks to heavy usage of licensed parts and the like. Also, when a nation decide to kill one generation, even if it fails, it kills all future generations as well. You can't stop making fighters, then pick it up again. The braindrain and loss of a generation of experienced engineer is to much.
Or well, you can if you are willing to throw massive resources at it, but that will never happen.
>>27961565
>>27960990
Wait what?
Since when does Switzerland fly Hornets?
>>27959661
>I wish we could be great again
You need to elect someone who will "Make Canada Great Again"?
>>27961588
> Fuck your NACA intake ramps.
I guess the Vikings have their own way of dealing with the boundary layer.
>>27961389
>and the age of the heavy interceptor was over
Someone didn't get the memo.
>>27961484
omfg the plasma stealth is obvious. based raptor.
>>27959655
Not our fault you did a terrible job of vetting your engineers and allowed a bunch of communist to infiltrate the project and steal data on titanium manufacturing.
>>27959548
It was obsolete when the prototype flew for the first time.
>>27959655
Both the F4 Phantom II and F8U-3 Super Crusader flew in 1958, same year as the first flight of the Arrow. Both aircraft handily outperformed the Arrow in all regimes. The Super Crusader was capable of MACH 2.8 and was the loser to the F4 Phantom II for the U.S. Navy's fleet defense fighter. The Phantom was such a leap forward that the U.S. Air Force swallowed their pride and adopted it, as did multiple other nations.
>>27960165
Hate to saw it, but A5 Vigilante was more likely responsible for the general design of the MiG25
.
Pic related.
>>27961565
>You can't stop making fighters, then pick it up again.
Tell that to the Japs.
>>27962839
For a while, the Hornet was chosen almost purely because it can fit in their mountain hangars without modification.
a feeling of national pride
i would say is the same feeling we brazilians have about the super tucano
>best coin aircraft
>>27959682
The only thing the 25 inspires in me is erections. Yes I'm aware that it was a crude piece of shit
>>27963156
Holy fuck a duck, it was ONE agent, who was being watched by the RCMP.
Good job blowing shit out of proportion, Boeing, BAE, Lockheed, etc all had far more Soviets in them than AVRO had.
And like >>27963185 says, the MiG-25 looks nothing like an AVRO Arrow.
>>27963190
The Japs have been trying. Look at the F-2.
>>27963236
That is a massive airplane.
>>27963156
Fun fact: The MiG-25 is only 9% titanium, because it was expensive, and they had difficulties with fatigue cracks.
And it does look a lot more like an A-5 than an Arrow. At one point during its development it looked like an EE lightning.
>>27963092
Yeah, the soviet state were notorious for wasting money. There's absolutely nothing that a heavy land based interceptor can do that an air superiority aircraft can't do better and cheaper.
>>27963554
>one agent
I suppose you have a source for this that contradicts every other source out there, right?
>>27963185
>A5 Vigilante was more likely responsible for the general design of the MiG25
in absolutely no way, shape or form.
>>27961588
>Draken
Nothing gets me harder
>>27963008
Canada votes like 70%+ left wing every election
That shit is just not possible.
why are we Canadians so brainwashed into thinking the Arrow was like some kind of gift from G-d?
Build 5000+ F-4's
and now we're only building 2500 F-35's?
Make way for Fiddler.
>>27964601
>There's absolutely nothing that a heavy land based interceptor can do that an air superiority aircraft can't do better
Intercept bombers as far away as possible?
MiG-31 was faster than say, SU-27.
>>27962839
since 1996. Literally almost two decades
come on man
>>27964838
Did the deal on the Gripen go through or no?
>>27964813
You're not going to stop them before they get to launch position if you're trying to race from an airfield in southern siberia. The only way you're effectively stopping a bomber penetration raid is if you're already on station, which means a continual presence there, which even the humble Su-27 is better suited for as it has a much better loiter time than the MiG-25/31 ever could hope for while being capable of using the same armaments.
You can make the case for a heavy naval interceptor, but a land based one has no merit anymore.
>>27966129
>>27966151
tfw no good nighthawk pictures
>>27966161
>>27966176
>>27966191
>>27966201
>>27966217
>>27966227
>>27966235
>>27966245
![IMG_8624[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/RKEbftT.jpg "IMG_8624[1].jpg")
>>27966129
I have these hanging in my room right now
>>27966270
Do you ever stop and think about whether or not its right that we get so aroused by the blackbird?
>>27964646
>implying great and liberal are mutually exclusive
Ya know Queen Victoria and senpai were huge libruls too, and it's not like she presided over the height of the British Empire or anything.
>>27959661
Part of our WW2 greatness is because we had 10% of our population involved in the military in some capacity. We threw ourselves into the war more than the US, proportionately speaking. But that was only sustainable during the immense crisis that WW2 was, unless Operation Unthinkable went off, or something similar, there would have been no way to justify the economic expense, or the expense to the people of Canada, who were quite happy that the war was over after 6 years of fighting.
As for the Arrow, well that's a whole different situation that involved the US trying to force us under their thumb, and our Prime Minister caving to them, in the most basic sense.
>>27963019
Yes, it's called charm.
>>27966424
did yall know the refueling speed for the blackbird is mach .9
>>27960426
It was able to achieve speeds that were considered practically impossible at the time, and a whole bunch of other technical stuff that I don't remember off hand.
After the program was shut down, the design and engineering team was poached by the American aerospace firms that are currently famous names in the industry, and they went on to work on many of the most successful designs from those companies.
>>27961412
The Mark 2 was supposed to have improvements that would have pushed it beyond its competitors. Which pretty much puts it in the same position as the F-35 is to the F-22. Not that much better, but getting shit on like it's actually worse.
>>27961389
>BOMARCS were offered for free
Shitty nukes that leaked and we didn't have the firing codes for? Gee thanks America, you're so fucking generous.
>>27966463
>It was able to achieve speeds that were considered practically impossible at the time
EE lightning
>>27966472
>Gee thanks America, you're so fucking generous.
Annexed status:
[ ] Annexed
[x] Not Annexed
yeah, we are fuckin generous
>>27959661
>but something went wrong around the 60's
>Quiet Revolution 1960
Yeah you let those Francophones create a welfare state and push out the Anglos
>>27966495
>implying we needed your nukes on our soil to do that
>implying we don't have Americans talking about annexation in almost every Canadian thread
In the world of international relationships, the US is the abusive boyfriend to Russia's home-invading rapist.
>>27964888
Why does loiter time matter for intercepting bombers?
>>27966673
- If you're on a high enough alert status that you are rotating interceptors to keep some in the air at all times
- If radar contact is intermittent you may launch the interceptors and send them in the general direction of the enemy bombers, pending more accurate directions
- If enemy bombers are coming in at low level you will need airborne radars to detect them
- You may need your interceptors to help shoot down cruise missiles after destroying or chasing off the bombers
>>27966792
Also makes it practical to send patrols further away from the base
>>27966553
Just remember that you deserve it. It's your fault. :^)
>>27966553
in the world of international relationships we're the father working 80+ hours a week to keep the house running smoothly
don't make us take our hat off.
>>27959675
what is that gif what even is it i don't
that is maybe the least efficient blunt weapon imaginable short of a teddy bear
>>27966254
why do all F35 shots look like renders
>>27966472
>no firing codes
Bullshit. They were supposed to be nominally under US control just like the sharing program with the rest of NATO. The problem is your country went full on NO NUKES ON OUR SOIL ;_;;;;;; like little bitches.
>>27966463
Avro Arrow CF-105 first flight was March 25, 1958.Max speed achieved in testing was MACH 1.98
McDonald Douglas F4H (later F-4) Phantom II first flight 27 May 1958. Max speed MACH 2.2+
Vought F8U-3 Super Crusader first flight 2 June, 1958 Max speed MACH 2.39
Both The Phantom II and Super Crusader flew the same year as the Arrow and had better performance.
And like it or not, the Mark II was an unsubstantiated pipe dream.
Pic is the Super Crusader. The five prototypes were turned over to NASA for high speed/high altitude testing.
The Phantom was chosen over the Super Crusader due to being two seat, twin engined and having a higher payload.
NASA pilots flying Super Crusaders would get into mock dogfights with Navy Phantom pilots. the faster and more nimble Super Crusader would regularly trounce the Phantoms. The Navy finally told NASA to cut it out because it was demoralizing their pilots.
>>27967534
The funny thing is that the Mk II doesn't even compare to what the minimum expected stats were for the F-108, which by all rights was expected to be a vastly superior aircraft but was still cancelled because the day of the interceptor was over.
>>27964813
Nobody who matters militarily would attack russia with bombers. ICBM, man.
>>27966463
>muh late mks
I've yet to see any real sources for the claimed mk 2 and beyond Arrows. They all seem to be claims of some impossible super fighter pulled out of some buttblasted syrupnigger's ass.
>>27966943
F22
>>27964607
If you knew anything about the Arrow program, you wouldn't be asking that question.
It was one agent, who worked on the shop floor, and was able to swipe some titanium and a couple documents.
Not that the Soviets needed details on titanium, they produced that stuff like no tomorrow unlike the West. So much so that the SR-71 is made from USSR titanium smuggled out by the CIA.
>>27959548
Program was cancelled because it was discovered that a KGB mole may have gotten close to getting access to its blueprints
>>27968391
>So much so that the SR-71 is made from USSR titanium smuggled out by the CIA.
[citation needed]
>>27968826
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/why-sr-71-blackbird-epitome-cold-war-spycraft-180953402/?no-ist
>"In the early 1960s, it (titanium) was also hard to find. One of the best sources was the Soviet Union, so the CIA, which also oversaw development of Blackbird’s predecessor, the A-12 Oxcart, set up shell companies abroad to purchase the metal from the very nation it was spying on.
>>27967988
You're thinking of the "Mk:III" and later, which like the F-108, are all theoretical fighters.
The Mk.II was 95% built and was about to have the engines installed when the torches came.
It was the same as the Mk.I (prototypes) except with some military gear installed + Orenda Iroquois engines + an extra internal fuel tank.
It would be Mach 2+, more range, but besides that not much different.
The "Mk.III" and later Arrows only exist in journal entries by the projects lead designer & enthusiasts CGI.
This is why you ignore the "Muh Mark.3 & Muh F-108 mockup" posters.
>>27966943
They rendered that F35 to look exactly like an F22. Must be greenscreen or something.
