What are your thoughts on the Colt 1908 and the .25 ACP cartridge? I recently bought one kinda on impulse as it was a really good price. I got it primarily as a collectible, but just wanted to know /k/'s thoughts on its practical usefulness overall.
So, is .25 ACP still relevant or useful in comparison to other option out today? Does a tiny .25 ACP handgun still have a useful place today?
I'm ashamed to say I'm waiting for an elderly relative to die so I can get his.
>>29990107
I have one. It's one of the four Browning-designed pistols I still own. It's very fun to shoot. Even though the sights are barely there, if you can see them, you can hit bullseyes at surprising distances. I don't think it would be an effective carry gun caliber, but I have carried it as a backup for fun sometimes. It's very classy. Very small and light gun too. Aside from the width of the grip, it's smaller than the Ruger LCP.
Just use caution when buying a used gun. Back in the time when these were made, corrosive .25 caliber ammo was the only kind of .25 caliber ammo available, so even if the gun looks perfect on the outside, the bore might be like a sewer pipe.
Also, keep in mind that the opposite of this can cause problems too: If the bore looks TOO good, then it might be a replacement barrel. If it's a replacement barrel, it might not have been fitted to the gun perfectly, and might actually shoot a few inches low, high, or left/right.
I have "cycled through" three of these guns so far before finding one that was free of any problems.
>>29990107
>.25 ACP cartridge
less energy than a 22 lr.
But no one uses it as a defensive round anymore.
Its something you buy and use because its cool.
Purse pistol?
.
>>29990107
>What are your thoughts on the Colt 1908 and the .25 ACP cartridge?
>thoughts on its practical usefulness overall.
Peashooter of peashooters.
.25ACP is a REALLY meek performer, arguably worse than .22LR in terminal performance, it's a cool collectible, but it's pitifully weak.
I also recall hearing they're not quite safe to carry with a round in the chamber, but I don't know true that is, exactly.
>Does a tiny .25 ACP handgun still have a useful place today?
No, you can get way better guns that aren't really that much larger.
Ruger LCP comes to mind, only slightly larger but WAY better performing.
I'd rather have a .38 Special Derringer than a .25ACP pistol.
>>29990251
>>I also recall hearing they're not quite safe to carry with a round in the chamber, but I don't know true that is, exactly.
It's a striker-fired design with a fully cocked striker. There is no firing pin block, but then again, the striker is not free-floating. Whether the sear and striker are in good condition to hold the striker in place is the important consideration. I would not personally want to drop one of these guns with a round loaded in the chamber, but I'm not basing that on any kind of testing, just my gut feeling.
>>29990107
>Browning master race
I'd like a little colt though. Like my browning id never shoot it but that's okay.
And no, 25acp has no practical use.
>>29990298
The safety design and the undercut trigger guard are definitely superior designs. How are the sights?
The best use I've heard for truly tiny pistols like this is keeping one in each pocket of a jacket. If someone tries to mug you, you can magdump into them at close range right through your jacket without any indications that you're going for a gun, and at that range you basically can't miss so shooting with 2 guns isn't even a problem.
>>29990230
Luckily the barrel looks ok. It is still in nice shape with case colors and most of the bluing intact. Just some scratches here and there. It just seems like it couldn't have been used too much.
>>29990107
>>29990298
Best of the best
>>29990419
>you can magdump into them at close range right through your jacket
Please go back to /v/, noguns.
>>29990439
The majority of these guns are still in high condition, due to the nature of them being intended for carry in a pocket. As long as the gun shoot true to point of aim, then you likely have an original barrel and are g2g.
>>29990368
Useless 2bh
>>29990454
Are you saying the raven is the best...?
Kinda like the look of these guys. How much for a decent one?
>>29990454
Man, I was at a household auction yesterday, that had a few guns going up for auction too. They had 1 raven, in god awful condition with no magazine that went for 300 dollars. Don't know why the fool wanted that garbage so badly.
>>29990547
Funny, the guy I'm buying my 1908 from is including the past owner's receipt too. He bought it for $75 in the late 70s.
>>29990559
Probably someone who didn't know about guns and just thought that was an opportunity to get one. I dunno.
>>29990565
I think it's so neat man. My grandfather bought it and I don't think he ever shot it.
It's got wear so maybe it was used. But still cool
>>29990484
You're not going to be using hollowpoints with a .25ACP anyway dumbass, it's not like you're going to plug them up.
Don't even suggest trying to use one of these in combat WITHOUT magdumping, those rounds are bottom-barrel for both size and energy transfer.
>>29990107
>relevant or useful
fuck no
They're still cool guns though.
>>29990603
That looks almost exactly like a Walther Model 9.
>>29990631
>thinks I was referring to hollowpoints in any way
Swing and a miss!
Hint: think about how revolvers differ from semi-autos.
>>29990576
Yeah probably. People tend to get caught up in bidding at auctions anyway.
>>29990107
I love all of the smaller ACP cartridges.
>.380 ACP for when you need to IWB like a mofo
>.32 ACP for when you have to Bond burger somebody
>.25 ACP for when you must be an exotic whore who also occasionally kills
>>29990680
>an exotic whore who also occasionally kills
Everybody needs a hobby.
>>29990680
I've really become very interested in those calibers in the last couple of weeks. I keep searching "Forgotten Weapons [insert caliber]" on youtube to see all the designs.
>>29990232
>less energy than a 22 lr
When will this meme die?
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html
.25 absolutely blows even .22 magnum out of the water when shot from pocket sized barrels
What is the smallest gun or caliber you're willing to carry, /k/?
>>29990107
How much did you pay
>>29990188
Good God man how new are you?
>Go get it now before the women/shitkins get it/ sell it/ turn it into art work.
>>29990758
Going to agree with this anon. I've seen that shit go south many times before.
>>29990715
Or a hobby within a hobby. Maybe you work a day job, but at night you're both an exotic woman and a black widow.
Who knows? They're dead because you shot them in the ear with a .25 ACP.
No more travelling salesman.
>>29990718
They're so... elegantly ample.
>>29990730
Also this, Y'all
>>29990754
$420 with $30 shipping. Here's one of the auction pics. It looks to be in great overall shape.
>>29990419
That's not really that amazing of an idea.
The entire point with these was that they were a tiny pistol that you could reasonably handle.
If you're gonna carry two, you might as well step up to one .32ACP pistol for the weight and size, then it's at least not entirely worthless.
>>29990484
Firing your gun through your pocket isn't an entirely useless idea.
Though of course the way he put it was fucking retarded.
>>29990576
What an absolutely rotten way to get into guns.
>>29990665
If you're wearing a windbreaker that fabric isn't likely to catch. Use bigger pockets.
>>29990746
.380ACP, it's actually got enough bite to matter, if you're using good defensive ammunition.
>>29990801
That's about right for a Gunbroker price. Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, these are common to find in near-perfect condition. You can find them a bit lower from private sales, but pretty hard to find local to me anyway.
>>29990680
>>.25 ACP for when you must be an exotic whore who also occasionally kills
Occasionally? On the contrary. Just ask Vasily Blokhin.
>Blokhin's most infamous act was the April 1940 execution by shooting of more than 7,000 Polish prisoners interned in the Ostashkov prisoner of war camp in the Katyn forest.
>the executions were carried out over 28 consecutive nights at the specially constructed basement execution chamber at the NKVD headquarters in Kalinin, and were assigned, by name, directly to Blokhin, making him the official executioner of the NKVD.[12]
>Blokhin initially decided on an ambitious quota of 300 executions per night; and engineered an efficient system in which the prisoners were individually led to a small antechamber—which had been painted red and was known as the "Leninist room"—for a brief and cursory positive identification, before being handcuffed and led into the execution room next door. The room was specially designed with padded walls for soundproofing, a sloping concrete floor with a drain and hose, and a log wall for the prisoners to stand against. Blokhin would stand waiting behind the door in his executioner garb: a leather butcher's apron, leather hat, and shoulder-length leather gloves. Then, without a hearing, the reading of a sentence or any other formalities, each prisoner was brought in and restrained by guards while Blokhin shot him once in the base of the skull with a German Walther Model 2 .25 ACP pistol.[13][14][15] He had brought a briefcase full of his own Walther pistols, since he did not trust the reliability of the standard-issue Soviet TT-30 for the frequent, heavy use he intended. The use of a German pocket pistol, which was commonly carried by German police and intelligence agents, also provided plausible deniability of the executions if the bodies were discovered later.[16]
>>29990817
>Firing your gun through your pocket isn't an entirely useless idea.
You can get one or maybe two shots off, sure. Don't expect a semi-auto to cycle in your pocket without jamming on your clothes, though. Definitely don't expect to "mag dump" a semi-auto while firing it from a pocket.
>>29990835
Changing the goalposts.
If .25 ACP was a viable cartridge 100 years ago, why isn't it today?
Did humans change?
>>29990882
Uh, no. I didn't say it would work with every jacket, anon. As every /k/ommando knows, with any concealed gun, you have to dress around it.
>>29990879
I knew about this series of events, I was playing more on the stereotypical uses of these weapons in various forms of media.
As a lover of the smaller ACP cartridges, I always have appreciated reading of their militant or mass-murderous use.
>>29990924
>>29990882
>Changing the goalposts.
>>29990922
Materials changed, actually. Its the reason why you are now seeing an explosion of pocket pistols. You can fit just about any caliber you want these days into one and have it fit a reasonably small profile.
They didn't have access to the kinds of metals and alloys we do today back then, as well as things like polymer to reduce weight.
>>29990952
You're not answering the question that he's asking. He's asking "why isn't .25 ACP an inherently deadly cartridge?" You're answering the question "why isn't .25 ACP the best (relative to others) caliber available in small guns?"
>>29990658
Very close
>>29990952
Despite that, as you get to .380 and smaller sized guns, the size gets so small for certain components that you see a reliability decrease compared to larger guns.
>>29990979
Fair enough.
The expansion on the original idea of better materials means you have access to high powered rounds for the same size of pistol. This doesn't mean .25 ACP is not a deadly round, it just means you can fit even more firepower into the same package with a larger caliber round.
Though I suppose since modern alloys are so strong, you could further miniaturize a .25 ACP pistol and make a REALLY small pistol. I wouldn't mind seeing that.
>>29990879
He could have used a nailgun or a pen knife yet you wouldn't suggest those would be good carry weapons.
Those circumstances are dumb and I bet a significant percentage of the people he shot didn't die immediately
Bump for more mouse gun discussion.
>>29991393
Where did I suggest it would be a good carry gun? Where did even the person I was replying to mention using it as a carry gun?
Might want to visit the doctor for those hallucinations, anon, you're seeing stuff that isn't there.
Its meh OP. I prefer my fritz mann .25 acp.
>dumping my antique vest gun collection now.
>>29991854
this is the fritz mann.>>29991854
>>29990188
Wut book? Is it any gud?
>>29991873
Remington Elliot Pepperbox? yes plz.
>>29991873
That is very unique looking. How much would one of those run these days?
>>29991906
its the .22 5 shot. the .32 is nice but who wants a 4 shot?
>>29991912
300-1000 depending on condition.
>>29991927
First person to guess this one gets +4 internet points.
>>29991940
Oh, and this one is 1860s.
All but the fritz mann and colt 1908 are from <1875.
>>29991885
Those are published monthly in the Dillon reloading catalog. There are 70 or so of them on a mega that gets posted once in a while.
>>29991965
My personal favorite.
My Smith and Wesson Model 1.
>>29991994
>even an extra cylinder.
PS, none of these have been refurbed in any way.
>>29992008
That's kooky.
>>29991994
If you really want to piss some one off before you shoot them with your .45, use a .22 short.
>>29990547
>>29990559
The originals Ravens weren't bad little guns for what they were. IT was after they got bought out that they went to shit...as much as they could go to shit.
>>29991035
>Though I suppose since modern alloys are so strong, you could further miniaturize a .25 ACP pistol and make a REALLY small pistol. I wouldn't mind seeing that.
I would rather they put .25 ACP into a modern pocket .380 size pistol (though a modern polymer .25 ACP pistol designed to be as small as possible would be really cool too), as you can fit a double stack magazine capable of holding ~14 rounds of .25 ACP into the same height as a 6 round .380 magazine if you made the gun ~.1" wider (about .9" wide) for most modern polymer .380s.
>>29990107
I knew a guy who killed a guy with one. Put it right through his eye, and killed him instantly.
>>29992783
Pawn shop owner?
>>29992453
call me crazy- but I always wanted a sub-miniature Mac-11, but instead of .380, .25 auto. zzzzzip.
>>29992813
I think we're talking about the same guy.
>>29992813
>>29992957
Small world (with small guns).
.25 is practical IF you need a small pocket gun and can't carry a larger one. And if you empty it out on someones chest - at least you won't be out of your fav firearm when the police take it for their investigation.
>>29992453
I'd buy one.
>>29992453
Kel-tec did something similar with their PMR-30, except they used a rimmed round, the most expensive rimmed round, and it's not reliable. I'd love to see a compact or a mini-compact double-stack .25 ACP pistol with a super high capacity for its size.
>>29992998
Sounds like a solid choice for formal wear, then.
>JD candidate here, I'm struggling with the suits.
>>29993049
>the most expensive rimmed round
You probably mean rimfire, because the most expensive rimmed round is a centerfire cartridge of some sort, probably the .700 Nitro Express or something like that.
It's debatable if it's the most expensive rimfire too, what are the costs of .17HMR and 5mm Remington?
>>29993129
Yes, sorry, I meant rimfire.
here's my .25 acp pistol
thinking about getting a baby browning or 1908, which is better?
also regarding the 25 acp round, I was watching a youtube ballistics video where they came to the conclusion that FMJ is the best to carry versus any type of hollow point because when they expand they bleed off any energy almost immediately to the point of being useless. thoughts?
I have to know - what is the most retarded, special snowflake, impossible to find, and if you did it would cost $100 a round, caliber?
>>29993296
.25 ACP hollow points all fail to penetrate the minimum 12", .25 ACP FMJ can penetrate 14"-15" from a 2"-2.4" barrel. You would have to be retarded to not go with the FMJ.
>>29993314
Funny, the vids on .25 ACP in gel have shown that they only penetrate to 9"-11", with only the occasional round hitting 12" or more. Got a link?
>>29993467
From Brass Fetcher:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Ballistic%20Gelatin%20Tests/25%20ACP%2010%20Percent%20Ballistic%20Gelatin.html
>>29993525
Thanks, though I don't see anything about there being any layers of denim the round went through first. FBI 12" minimum includes denim.
>>29991940
>>29991965
Stevens no.43?
>>29993662
>FBI 12" minimum includes denim
No, it doesn't. The FBI heavy clothing test includes denim and is specifically for testing if heaving clothing will cause a hollow point to fail to expand. Such testing is irrelevant on FMJ ammunition as a couple layers of denim aren't going to slow down a bullet by any considerable amount.
>>29993677
YES! Nice guess.
>>29993311
13mm rockets for a GyroJet
>>29990730
what you linked showed the opposite
>barely 1000 ft/s
fucking embarrassing
>>29994474
>>barely 1000 ft/s
Almost nothing hits 1000 FPS from a 2"-2.5" barrel, let alone reaches significantly past 1000 FPS.
>>29990107
My father-in-law has one, I wouldn't mind inheriting it.
Not sure how reliable that grip safety is though. From handling the pistol, it seems like a pain to engage reliably.
This thread makes me want to buy a 25acp gun.
I hate you fuckers sometimes.
>>29990107
>pocket hammer less
Pretty sure it's called the vest pocket pistol.
The 1903 and 1908 pocket hammerless are different pistols.
>>29996933
They're like 300 max unless you want to get some rare or mint gun.
>>29990107
>Does a tiny .25 ACP handgun still have a useful place today?
Fuck yes it does.
Most plinking fun to be had is with my 1908
>>29998589
>Pretty sure it's called the vest pocket pistol.
I believe "Vest Pocket" is more of a collectors' term. In old advertising, you generally see it called things like ".25 caliber automatic," or "Pocket Model."
>>30000337
In any case I don't believe it was ever called the pocket hammerless. As I said the 1903 and 1908 pocket hammerless are specific guns.
>>30000614
Still, no. Those are all collectors' terms. Colt originally used the same model names for all these pistols, with the caliber being the only thing that's different. They were all called basically, "Colt Automatic Pistol," with "Pocket Model, ___ caliber, Hammerless" often added to advertising and instruction booklets to specify which exact pocket hammerless model was being referred to.
Bitches love a Colt.
>>30000614
Also, Colt had their internal names for these pistols, Models N and M for the .25 and .32/.380 sized frames respectively, but the use of "Vest Pocket" and "Pocket Hammerless" to describe specifically the .25 and .32/.380 models in particular came about later, from collectors.
I'd take a .25ACP with a 9 or 10 round capacity in a mouse gun over a .380ACP with a 5 or 6 round capacity in a mouse gun.
As of right now, I have a keltec P-32 and have a +1 mag extension on my standard mag that gives me 8 rounds of 73 grain FMJ italian ammo.
People generally do not stick around to get shot when you start pulling the trigger, and if they do, the insanely low recoil allows many positive hits in small areas such as head, neck, upper chest.
.380ACP is a bitch to shoot in a mouse gun format, it has terrible snap and makes follow up shots very difficult if you're talking ruger LCP or smaller frame gun.
>>29992453
yes, I would drop $$$ in an instant if I could get 12-14 rounds of .25 ACP in a doublestack magazine that is slightly wider than the current mouse gun iterations ( Ruger LCP/Keltec P3AT)
>>30001080
>>30001146
Interesting. I remember seeing an old add for the 1903 that actually said "Colt Automatic Pocket Hammerless" somewhere. Anyway, you don't sound wrong so I'll go with it.
>>30001207
>>.380ACP is a bitch to shoot in a mouse gun format, it has terrible snap and makes follow up shots very difficult if you're talking ruger LCP or smaller frame gun.
It's really not that bad with enough practice. I remember when I first started, I could barely put 1 or 2 rounds per magazine on paper at the range, but now I can shoot pretty rapidly (not competition speeds, but maybe 3 shots in 2 seconds) and get all of my shots within a 3-4" circle at 7 yards. Not to say that I can shoot that well under stress, but with more practice, I think it could be possible.
I do have the LCP Custom model, with the enlarged sights, so that could play a part, but not in regard to the snappiness.
>>30001207
Depends on your preference, I'd MUCH rather have a Walther PPK in .380ACP than in .25ACP
It's all metal so recoil wouldn't be too hard.
>>29990107
I used to carry one in my pocket back when I worked in an environment that required me to wear a suit. Was the only thing I owned I could conceal with total confidence. I wouldn't call 25 acp ideal for carry, but with the right load it'll still get the job done. I'd recommend hot FMJ. I don't imagine 25 acp hollowpoints having much if any penetration.
>>30001984
>It's all metal so recoil wouldn't be too hard.
Have you ever shot one? My dad has an FN 1955, which is a .380 straight blowback design, and an all steel gun at that, approximately the same size as a PPK, and it's actually pretty hard recoiling. I still have to compare the two side by side, but I think my LCP might be about the same, if not just slightly softer-shooting. The locked breeck design makes all the difference for recoil.
Astra Cub in 22 short , it was also sold as the colt jr.
every once in a while a the gun range people look at me and wonder why i bought it. But its their wives that always want to shoot it and then ask me if i would sell it to them.
>>29994474
Good Work! you're literate, anon! I didn't think you had it in you.
Now, bare with me here, now we're going to do practice an advanced technique called "compare and contrast"
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/25auto.html
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/2011graphs+/22ME.html
>>30001984
>a Walther PPK in .380ACP
>not .32
absolutely disgusting
>>30002247
I like something that can penetrate deep enough to adequately wound.
.32ACP is nice to shoot but let's face it, it's kind of underpowered.
>>30002080
Recoil is ok, but I really think there needs to be more locked breech small caliber guns.
The Beretta 84 would be perfect if it was locked breech, I don't care if it becomes slightly more expensive.
>>30002413
I want a beretta 84 with wood grips so badly.
Nobody remembers the beretta bobcat 21A :/
anyone have any experience/opinions on them?
>>30002604
>>30002604
They shouldn't be too hard to find used, a lot of people don't appreciate just how nice they actually are.
I like the .25 acp. It's not the best choice by far, but it only comes in guns you could literally hide in your asshole if you had too.
>>30003448
You should see the NAA Mini Revolvers, they get mad tiny, even the .22 Magnum ones.
There's even little notches between the chambers so you can keep it fully loaded with the hammer resting between the chambers, and it'll be safe, just cock the hammer and it's ready.
In fact, I've heard a story of a crackwhore who was found to have hidden one of them in her cooch during a cavity search, they traced the serial number and found it reported stolen from a car about a year prior, they called up the owner, told him, and asked if he wanted it back, whereupon he replied "Uh... I don't know"
Point is, they're easy to hide if you have to, they even made one which fitted an indent in a belt-buckle, and to a casual observer, it'd look like a novelty design buckle. You could hide it temporarily in your mouth, if you have a lot of hair, you could hide it there, if you're chubby you can hide it in the folds of your fat, you can keep it in your shoe, or a chest-pocket.
>>30002136
Probably because it's cute.
You should suggest to them a NAA in .22 Short, super small.
>>30004147
Trouble with NAA Mini revolvers is that that they are SA = useless for defence.
You won't have mind clear enough to fumble with tiny hammer when some melanine enriched gentleman will be stabbing your guts.
>>30004547
Well probably not in a surprise scenario, no, but if you're caught off guard, were you really gonna retrieve your mini revolver from your anus?
There's also the fact that just presenting a gun, even a small one, is really threatening, it'll have that power too (though I've once heard of a drug dealer killing a cop with one of these in a shootout)
