Now that a year has passed since ZUN threw a fit and killed TOUHOU SMASH along with the western doujin scene, do you think the game has landed in Gensokyo? Maybe Reimu and the gang are playing it at Korindo right now! I'd love to be a fly on the wall watching that... unless Suwako is there!
What do you think the tier lists are? Who's the best SMASHer in Gensokyo?
It was a shitty cash grab game made by retarded brown niwaka.
>Those faces
Jesus christ, what.
>Those faces
I'm glad they are dead and I'm glad they are gone
>>15144617
Just let this thing be forgotten. For an attention whore like Saijee, that's the worst punishment imaginable.
If you want a Touhou Smash Bros. game, these guys have been working on one for a while: https://twitter.com/HouraiTeahouse
several 2hu smash games have been around, for years
ｷﾀ━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━!!
>>15144837
This was just a test. I saw >>15144750
and thought Hiro had done something similar to Futaba and added a ｷﾀ━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━!! to your post if it had no text. Sorry
>>15144626
>>15144628
From what I've read Saijee thought people thought the faces were ugly because they weren't anime-styled and people weren't used to it.
>>15144845
man ur dum
Sweet mother of god, it looks like they ripped the models from The Sims.
>>15144986
>they weren't anime-styled
>still had large eyes
Yeah. ok.
And nothing of value was lost. Except...
>along with the western doujin scene
Come again? Granted, it's a pretty small scene, but did that actually happen?
>>15145076
Yes. All webcomics and Artists' Alleys across the world disappeared when Touhou Smash did. Saijee was the one person holding up the cultures of every country outside Japan, like a modern-day Atlas.
>>15145041
GOOD anime style.
>>15144617
What the fuck is up with those models man. That looks awful.
>>15144986
the style has nothing to do with it, all the faces are copy/pasted from some stock 3dmax model. thats why they all have gaijin man noses.
there's also another touhou smash project by the reddit touhou community, i haven't seen any news about it in a while though.
>>15145184
Their Twitter got posted earlier, I'd check that. Their art seems way better than whatever Touhou Super Smash Battles would ever have.
>>15145103
So this dickhead is actually a very powerful man that control certain community's opinion?
I don't really care about him, just hate the fact that he has to make everyone agree with him.
>>15144626
>It was a shitty cash grab game made by retarded brown niwaka.
No, no, weren't you listening? He didn't WANT to quit his job and make a living from the game. He just wanted the cash because you HAVE to sell games in stores, there's sadly no other way to distribute them. But then he was cruelly pounced on by all these doujin people who LIED that he had no idea what the word "doujin" actually meant.
What he said he actually wanted was the fanbase. Basically he admired the fanbase the Touhou games had attracted in Japan, and wanted to recreate it in America. It's just... he wanted his games to be the Touhou games. People in Japan playing games made by a Japanese person was fine, but people in other countries should play games made by an American, tailored to Western culture, and ignore the Japanese ones entirely.
I am completely serious about this. He actually said this. He was even going to change characters' names.
>>15145294
Someone post again the westernized Touhou names.
>>15145264
>So this dickhead is actually a very powerful man that control certain community's opinion?
That was sarcasm. I recognize that it's hard to get across on the Internet, but the fact that webcomics and anime conventions still exist should have tipped you off.
ZUN never even shut down Saijee's project, he gave explicit permission for it to go ahead. It's just that Saijee somehow interpreted this as "a trick", and stopped working on the game because he was "too smart to fall for that".
That's a recurring thing with Saijee - he's both stubborn and CANNOT UNDERSTAND WORDS, often pulling bizarre conclusions out of nowhere and refusing to part with them.
There are enough Touhou fighting games as it is. Those faces look disgusting to be frank. If he wanted to make money from it, he could have set up a paypal for donations. Considering the amount that autists give on patreon, it wouldn't be a bad idea.
>>15145347
>There are enough Touhou fighting games as it is
No it isn't.
I'm not asking for Smash crap but I'd pay for doujin 2hu fighting games with more normal mechanic.
>>15144617
>>15145347
The only thing ZUN took issue with about Touhou Smash was that Saijee was using crowdfunding - he was both involving corporate entities in the sale of someone else's IP, and making people pay for something which didn't yet exist and might never exist (the way it was set up, Saijee would keep your money even if he failed to produce something).
ｷﾀ━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━!!
>>15145423
What a fucking idiot.
this looks terrible and im glad its dead.
western smash players are also just as degenerate as pony fags. Look at what happened to cosmo, he thinks hes a girl now and hes contemplating suicide due to his mentall illness. I'm sure this kind of filth is normal for all smash players.
>>15144617
Maybe it's because I drank too much, but these 3D models are making me laugh like an idiot
>>15145423
I remember this post. This is the exact moment I understood why ZUN asks people not to introduce people to Touhou through fanworks, and why Touhou fanworks always have that disclaimer about distorting your image of the original series.
>>15144617
>since ZUN threw a fit
You mean made the only logical choice when faced with such a monstrosity?
>>15145315
The man would have had a major influence as the sole representative of the hardcore American scene. That's why ZUN panicked and shut him down.
>>15145403
>and making people pay for something which didn't yet exist and might never exist
More precisely, that he was attempting to create a "doujin" work by means of asking people for money, which is intrinsically not a doujin endeavour. Trying to get other people to fund what is at its core hobbyism is utterly backwards. Then by pushing something non-doujin, he had gone beyond the scope of ZUN's guidelines for creating Touhou derivative works.
One good thing about this prolonged travesty is that now a lot more people have been educated somewhat on doujin culture and what is and isn't considered okay.
That reminds me of when the MotK admin came here to do some damage control.
Shit was funny as fuck.
>>15145438
get out /vg/
>>15145513
i don't even lurk any other boards so is hating on smash players a meme? I just hate them from personal experience and from some of my fighting game friends.
>>15145521
Nah, every right minded person hates Smash players.
>>15145490
>I'm a Japanese-American
Saijee can't even speak Japanese. He said he got his dad to write Japanese messages for him, but translators who looked at these messages said that the grammar made no sense. He says his name is "Saijee" because his dad wasn't sure how to spell "Seiji" on his birth cert, but also that his name doesn't have kanji. Which implies that his dad has English as a first language, and thus that Saijee is a 3rd+ generation immigrant who happens to be a weaboo. Some of the things he's said suggest that he can barely tell the difference between Japan and China.
>>15145521
Saijee was ridiculously dismissive of "casuals" during the development of Touhou Smash and said he didn't want them to play his game, because they were only a small minority anyway. So uh...
>>15145441
I remember when Saijee told people on Facebook (maybe Youtube?) that 4chan was trying to cover up a smear campaign by deleting a thread about him. 4chan threads are normally never deleted, he informed his followers - he knew this because he'd been active on 8-chan for five or six years.If you've noticed that site is only two years old and Saijee posted this a year ago, then congratulations.
>>15145423
I don't think this is wrong at all. All he have to do is putting the disclaimer notice that it's just derivative.
Well, except probably the patriotic american part.
>>15144617
>>15144750
>>15145564
Seriously? I can hardly believe it. From his looks to the way he acted, being unable to parse and understand anything said to him, I thought he was an Indonesian or other southeastern Asian with English as their second language.
>>15146980
I didn't follow this trainwreck but it looks more like legitimate autism or cognitive problems
>>15145379
This game is the beast.
>>15147003
This was one of the funniest things that happened in 2015 in regards to the community. Like, this guy legitimately thought his shitty game would be played at tourneys.
>>15147312
That's some chris chan level of delusion
>>15145564
Truly, an inspiration for us all.
I want to make fun and cool 2hu games, too.
Maybe I could learn from him not to think highly of myself and my game, not too greedy and read the guideline.
>>15145039
>>15147522
Go for it anon, you are your only obstacle.
I don't get it, was this shutdown because he was trying to make money?
Can you sell 2hu fangames or not? What about making a free fangame but accepting donations?
>>15147953
He was using profit-seeking commercial industry to back him up without ZUN's agreement and it's american company, the kickstarter that would fund his game, and something about asking money even before the game is released.
It's against Doujin ethics and ZUN's guidelines.
It doesn't say you can't sell it as long it's still within Reitaisai.
>>15148060
>>15148060
>>15148060
>>15148060
This, I still can't believe there are people that don't get it.
>>15148067
This post >>15145403 explained it better
If a girl cosplays as a touhou character and does porn then sells the porn dvd's
Does that go against ZUNs guidelines and doujin ethics?
>>15148143
If she sold it herself without publisher and company it's probably allowed
>>15148060
>It doesn't say you can't sell it as long it's still within Reitaisai.
That basically prevents any non jap dev doesn't it?
Not that it's a bad thing.
>>15148172
Maybe you can still sell it at local convention, as long you don't use big publisher to spread it on bigger scale.
>>15147953
ZUN said you can sell it, but only through Japanese channels (such as Comiket and Reiteisai) effectively shutting out any foreign presence in the scene. Very reminiscent of voter suppression in US primaries if you're following that. ZUN plays the typical Japanese fake politeness "we want you to make your game" act, but it's clear he's hostile towards anyone out of Japan. Either xenophobic bullshit or due to his control freak tendencies.
>>15148185
So if he's going to be a racist dick then just steal whatever the hell you want and make as much cash as you can until you get that cease and desist notice comes, if it ever comes
>>15148192
Then ZUN stop making Touhou because filthy gaijins keep stealing his works and hell would set loose into the one responsible from the rage of Touhou fans around the world
>>15148185
How does he feel about donations though?
Is that a grey area?
Where does that leave westerners who make music and sell/freedownload on bandcamp
Or are they tall small time for anyone to care about.
Guessing the later honestly.
Zun is probably more concerned about games than art and music
People are getting doujin confused with indie.
Doujin translates to fanwork, but more accurately would mean "works by and for a group of similar people".
Limiting distribution is a requirement, not a byproduct. In markets and channels where people are likely to be familiar with the original work, you can be doujin while still making money. Kickstarter is none of those things, it is literally a funding entity.
>>15148270
There are western 2hu arrange on Bandcamp?
I dunno about online company, but if you let A&R publish your 2hu music in disc worldwide of course ZUN would give a shit.
>>15148327
>Doujin translates to fanwork
That's completely wrong
>>15148359
Most people will translate it to "fan", such as doujinshi to fanbook,but yes, that doesn't capture the full meaning of the work.
"Fanwork" implies it was created by a fan, but the actual meaning of the word would mean both created and distributed to fans.
>>15148185
>>15148192
>>15148214
ZUN has always been very wary of US and international copyright law and trade agreements. He doesn't want someone to be able to make a Touhou game outside of Japan, sell it, and claim copyright over Touhou in their country because they were the first to utilize the IP in their respective nation.
On the other hand he doesn't want to file for outside copyright and allow international trade laws he isn't a fan of to affect others' ability to freely produce doujin works in the event someone wants to start enforcing it.
ZUN was between a rock and a hard place for years because of it until he got more business savvy and learned how to manage his shit properly (or rather to let others do it for him) until he finally said fuck it and began toying with outside releases and digital distribution and partnerships with the big fish.
>>15148258
I don't know. I'm fairly certain that circles asking
for donations in Japan is practically unheard of. And not just in the Touhou fandom.
That's why crowdfunding was a big 'no' and is so foreign to doujin to the point it all became about trying to educate Saijee about doujin vs. indie.
But I don't know, maybe if you had a webpage with a donation link on it but didn't promote it and beg for money in relation to or when you talked about your game it might be allowed within the rules, unwritten or otherwise.
>>15148270
Technically not allowed but like you said, small time enough that TSA either doesn't care or is unaware.
>>15148380
>I don't know. I'm fairly certain that circles asking
>for donations in Japan is practically unheard of.
I think that's just culture in general.
>>15148327
This.
The idea of doujin is you make something out of your own pocket, then sit for hours in a ridiculously hot hallway with about a million other people, and MAYBE earn enough money for a beer with friends, but most likely you won't even break even.
Your audience consists entirely of people who cared enough to travel to the same location on the same day, generally because they plan to make doujins themselves in future. (yes there's a rising number of people who go there simply as consumers, but NORMIES REEEEEE is a common sentiment to that)
Doujin is in a legal grey area. Japanese copyright laws aren't any less strict than the US - copyright holders are still obligated to go after derivative works. But the reason for this is that fanworks can distort peoples' perception of the brand.
Basically, selling a fanwork to an existing fan is legal, but selling it to an outsider is illegal. If you sell a Touhou fanwork on Steam then it reaches both fans and non-fans, and is thus illegal. The reason selling it at Comiket or Reitaisai is fine is because no one will be introduced to Touhou through your work - everyone at a place like that knows what Touhou is already.
>>15148185
>ZUN says to sell fanart at an anime convention, not in shops
>That's impossible, no one does that in America, ZUN is racist
Have you ever actually been to an anime convention, anon?
>>15148258
>How does he feel about donations though?
>Is that a grey area?
His main character and self insert is sustained by donations. He's just willfully naive wrt western development practices and requirements, especially in countries that aren't connected by a shinkansen
>>15145490
HOHTOH DOUGOU
CARE NO
A lot of incorrect info is spreading in here.
If ZUN was truly against outside creation and selling of touhou, then the card game Danmaki would've been shut down a long time ago.
>>15149860
Yeah yeah yeah.
>>15144617
No one sane person would say this is aesthetically pleasing right?
>>15145423
>however I also made swapped her pallet from tradtional japanese to patriotic american
Oh
I just now realized that this is why Reimu is RWB (USA Flag) instead of RW (Japanese Flag)
This thread is hillarious, thanks for making this; I ignored all this while it was happening.
>>15144617
wew
>>15150058
It gets better. Saijee seemed to believe that the world had two monolithic cultures - "The Eastern culture" of Japan and China, and "The Western culture" of all other countries.
Eventually someone managed to communicate to him that "The West" has more countries in it than the United States, and that dressing the main character up like an American flag is not going to make the entire world proud like he seemed to think it would...
So he kept Reimu's USA colour scheme, but gave her alternate palettes for EVERY OTHER COUNTRY FLAG.
>>15150542
I'm not mad at this guy for not understanding doujin 'rules', I feel as if he put forth a genuine effort to try and understand.
But boy does he ever have some misguided ideals about design.
>>15150542
Wait, that's what the colors were? I always thought he was doing mixing and matching from 4 or 5 other colors. What flags are in this picture?
>>15151191
I see Norway on the far right
>>15148143
>>15148159
I highly doubt cosplay is covered as IP theft. It's the porn industry; they aren't going to give much of a shit about ethics.
>>15149941
This.
>>15148172
No, but the fact that no equivalent to something like Comiket that enables legitimate doujin sales exists outside of Japan is a significant barrier. It isn't like this is an arbitrary xenophobic rule, it's what makes sense for anyone trying to keep a hold on their IP while also trying to empower fanworks.
>>15148270
Bandcamp's model is a massive grey area that doesn't really have precedent in the doujin scene. Ultimately it isn't something big to go after and will probably be left alone.
>>15148380
>I don't know. I'm fairly certain that circles asking for donations in Japan is practically unheard of.
It makes no sense to ask for donations to fund your own hobby work, especially if you will later sell that work.
>>15151125
>I feel as if he put forth a genuine effort to try and understand.
Actually funny. I'm not sure how involved you were but it was a full month of the same shit reiterated and twisted to insanity.
I'm still mad he tried to use Rika as a way to get pity from pc98 fans
>sorry guys, tis totally obscure character TOTALLY WON the voting! Too bad you guys can't get her cus ZUN is a big bad man so let me show you by looking into his friend's background story even though he was supporting us!
>>15151596
>No, but the fact that no equivalent to something like Comiket that enables legitimate doujin sales exists outside of Japan is a significant barrier
I guess cons count? Comic con and other large ones have a lot of creators selling things, but there really is nothing like comiket.
Then again, nothing stops any other country from making events similar to that.
>>15148645
>Basically, selling a fanwork to an existing fan is legal, but selling it to an outsider is illegal.
Is "no secondaries" seriously a legal principle in this situation? How would you even enforce this?
>>15151191
>Estonian Reimu
>Belgian Reimu
>German Reimu
>Polish Reimu
>Finnish Reimu
>Ukranian Reimu
>Irish Reimu
>Norwegian Reimu
Did I get it right?
>>15155552
I'd say second-to-last would be Brazil, but it's obviously not in Europe so who knows.
HUEs deserve an honorable mention, I suppose.
Kare...no... has joined the brawl!
>>15155524
>Is "no secondaries" seriously a legal principle in this situation? How would you even enforce this?
Basically, when you create an unlicensed derivative work, you're not allowed to compete with the IP holder.
If you create a situation where people consume your works INSTEAD of the original, then you're just harming the original creator. If you create a situation where the only people who consume your works are existing customers, then you're not doing any harm, and may actually help the creator by making the fans more enthusiastic.
IP holders are also obligated to defend their IPs against competitors or risk losing their rights entirely, though this depends on the scale of the infraction and the skill of the lawyers.
ZUN often asks people not to use the naming scheme of his games for fanworks, for instance (Touhou Three Kanji ~ English Phrase), depending on the risk of people confusing it for an official work. E.g. "Touhou Anime Project" had to change its name to "Musou Kakyou: A Summer Day's Dream".
>>15156761
Because this was never linked:
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki:Copyrights#Copyright_status.2FTerms_of_Use_of_the_Touhou_Project
>>15145315
>>15156761
How does that work when The Last Comer, Mystical Power Plant, Riverbed Soul Saver and White Name's Spoiler Past have the touhou kaniji in their titles?
>>15144617
>wait a minute those faces
>>15157530
Well you don't have to follow them. There are more than that who don't. ZUN just requests that you do.
They're also just free Danmakufu scripts. They're not full games for sale and the only way to play them is by downloading this other piece of software. Only a very specific part of the fandom plays or cares about them. That's probably the loophole.
>>15154581
Cons with artist alleys count, but the point is precisely that no event is as focused as Comiket or any other smaller doujin event. Stuff like Comiket is made feasible because of the culture itself; it's a self-sustaining thing. The venues can be rented despite the creators often selling at cost anyways, just because of the number of people participating. Many of the people buying are also other creators.
>>15157530
The naming thing isn't a hard rule, it's just courtesy. Particularly note that people use the naming on purpose when making explicit parodies or homages and it's fine, as long as it's made clear.
ido makes no reservations about saying his works are derivatives, and he also doesn't distribute it outside his own website, making it difficult for anyone not aware of Touhou already to find it.
>>15144617
>That Cirno
>>15145294
>>15145331
>>15145403
>>15145423
>>15145490
>>15145496
From what I'm understanding, Saijee, an amateur modeler and game designer who is still in college/whatever, attempted to make a Touhou Smash game and actually believed that because of the attention and fame he got for it despite the game being beyond complete and polished, he could get it localized and claim how he wants it done as if he owns the entire series?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kgP_2oQ9Vs
I forgot they tried to defend themselves and Japanese people had to watch and make sense of their fucking roleplay personas with obnoxious voice effects
>>15158299
He also believed that it would become more popular than Smash 4, and be played at all major tournaments.
Oh, and he claimed it had "always been his dream to create a Touhou game" and cried that ZUN had crushed his dreams by shutting it down (despite ZUN never actually doing that). Then he switched to saying he'd never liked Touhou anyway, and he'd just switch out the character models while keeping the gameplay the same.
Then there was the fiasco over how he handled the Kickstarter (Indiegogo?) campaign. Including promising to shut it down, breaking that promise, asking ZUN's lawyer to send a copyright claim, then screaming when he did that, doxxing said lawyer and threatening to sue ZUN.
>>15159138
>doxxing said lawyer
He tried to defend himself by saying that yes, he had released the man's personal information, and told all his followers he was an awful and selfish person... but that the result (his followers started harassing the guy) was something no one could have predicted, and all the Saijee-haters were being unreasonable for holding him accountable for that.
He also said that it wasn't doxxing because he's a member of the public. Therefore all of his knowledge is public knowledge, and releasing it to the public doesn't change anything.
>>15159138
>>15159222
Jesus christ, how can one guy think and act like that and want to be in the gaming industry, thinking this shit would fly?
>>15148185
>but it's clear he's hostile towards anyone out of Japan
He's a smart man.
I hate my country, and the majority of the people living here. If the majority were ok the country wouldnt be so shit. Cant wait for the faggots to all vote to stay in the EU, even after the "refugee" shitstorm.
>>15159797
People with very little social skills or severe autism have issues understanding consequences or knowing how other people react to their shenanigans.
This kid has a bad case of both, so its no wonder.
>>15159797
>Jesus christ, how can one guy think and act like that and want to be in the gaming industry, thinking this shit would fly?
Because it does?
The industry is filled with bullshit, and rabid fanboys will defend any and all of it.
Amiibo's, pre order dlc, early access, kickstarter, valves marketplace, valves cards, valves adventure where you compete in teams to become the best goy, there were even people defending paid mods.
Then you had the gamergate bullshit.
Then you have people like Phil Fish and Tim Schafer who talk shit.
Bethesda can release unfinished games and people will defend them.
In any other industry the customer is always right. But with videogames you apparently need to kiss ass and these people are entitled to your money, if you arent satistisfied with broken promises and a broken product you spent £40 on, then you are entitled.
The gaming industry is filled with cunts like this. Which just makes Zun look even better by comparison, I own a bunch of games, dont pirate his stuff and when I own that physical copy, I own it. No DRM bullshit. Add in the lax attitude towards letting the community make content.
I wish most devs were half as based as ZUN.
>>15144617
Not even they would want to play that piece of shit.
>>15156966
>Anna Showmeyourmoves
I'm dying.
Are you really not allowed to sell Touhou fangames through US services, or was that just another one of his baseless claims? Either way I am glad that it is dead.
>>15147532
kek
>>15144617
I don't understand why TOUHOU smash wasn't just a mod for brawl.
Every Single touhou character has been uploaded to a website called "Brawl Vault" by the user GadmineK.
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?ByUserID=19885
(The link may be down the website has occasional downtime issues)
Not to mention anything in brawl, from the roster, stages, music, menu, and mechanics can all be tweaked with incredible ease due to all of the modding tools that have been made over the years.
Hell if we can make our own fan game right now if we really wanted to.
>>15159138
what a baby
>>15163904
Cuz he wants to make money and be famous
>>15163904
This, >>15165262
But also the gameplay for Touhou Smash wasn't gonna be a straight up Smash clone. There were a bunch of other mechanics IIRC like airdashing, grazing, floating etc. that I sorta understand why it was made from scratch.
>>15144705
Didn't these devs do some really shady shit?
I recall some incident where they partnered with some other group working a Smash fangame to "share their work" or something on Smashboards.
And then they ended up cutting off from that other group after they shared their build (and also shitted up the other group's version of the build to get ahead).
I can't seem to find anything on it atm from Googling it (it could be a completely different project I'm thinking of since I have shittastic memory) but I vaguely recall something like that from a while back (and it sticks out in my mind because of how scummy that shit was)
>>15165378
You have my interest, go on? Any further details?
>>15165378
If this is true and you got more info, I'd be surprised it hasn't really tainted their repuation yet (course the Touhou Smash incident already did...)
>>15165378
>>15165682
>>15165899
I remember that. It was called OpenSmash.
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18589.msg1195052.html#msg1195052
https://www.reddit.com/r/touhou/comments/3c8kgq/wip_genso_shojokosen_update/ - Touhou Smash's statements
http://smashboards.com/threads/opensmash.401254/#post-19537360 - Their statement
http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=74075.msg1342413#msg1342413 - I don't know what this is about, but it apparently relates to OS's developer and is either deleted or requires logging in to view.
OpenSmash says the Fantasy Crescendo developers were using them for their code and upon leaving they tried to undo what they'd contributed to it (optimization something or other). FC says the OS project was just different from their goals and that's why they left, presumably feeling that because they left, their code no longer belonged.
For what it's worth FC says they deleted the OS code from their game.
>>15165378
>I recall some incident where they partnered with some other group working a Smash fangame to "share their work" or something on Smashboards.
Dude, those guys had no fucking idea what they were talking about and spun it (possibly intentionally) as though Hourai Teahouse were just trying to piggyback, rather than opting for proper communication and acknowledging why they had separated, which Teahouse claims to have explained to them.
The reasons they split were:
>OpenSmash was intending to be funded by a crowdfunding campaign in the near future. Something we clearly do not want to be associated with, especially after the whole fiasco with TSSB.
>OpenSmash was simultaneously an engine for Smash-like games, and a exact carbon copy of Smash Bros (Melee/Brawl/4). This included reimplementing all of the characters originally in Super Smash Bros, a decision we felt would ultimately lead to a cease and desist by Nintendo. Being associated/co-developed with such a project would likely put us in the blast radius.
Like these are ridiculously obvious no-gos. They couldn't have possibly continued development with them on these conditions.
Reportedly they had asked the OpenSmash team to reconsider this direction and they couldn't agree (as if they're going to reconsider crowdfunding, rite), and so they left. The OpenSmash code was removed from their repo, and they removed their code from OpenSmash. How they did this was probably somewhat messy and hasty, but clearly OpenSmash either ignored these discussions or were omitting them purposefully for some reason.
Either way OpenSmash looks like it's dead, so whatever.
>>15150086
Ayyy lmao
>ｷﾀ━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━!!
>>15158305
I can't watch nor listen to that video. It's too annoying till the point it is making me cringe.
>>15167585
Tell me about it. Instead of having a disscussion or writing a simple post, Saijee chooses to make videos to respond to everything and only answer the video's comments.
I think that's what pissed me off the most about him; he even said that he considers the YouTube comments asking about trivial shit on his shit game more important to him than the people actually trying to help him not fuck up and find a better solution.
>>15167103
How horrifying
>>15158305
Holy shit that NamelessLegacy passive-aggressive comment is brutal. Can't imagine that I'd ever agree with that fucking brony.
>>15168242
Transcribe it.
>>15144617
Holy shit. The character models don't look too bad in the thumbnail until you're unfortunate enough to click it full size.
Horrifying.
>>15169374
This paragraph: "However, From Soy Sauce is obviously all about going the classical indie/doujin route of releasing a proprietary closed-source brick in order to turn a profit (which, eh, fine, it's Touhou after all, it's always been about commerce and never about free culture), so you will probably not consider that an option. It's likely that the translators will need to hack your game regardless to fix the design issues in your engine. Just be sure to support them by listening to their advice and working that into your official releases. That shouldn't take too much of your time. Usually, fan translators are smart people.
(Or how about making data extraction some sort of unlockable achievement? I know, it's just Unity and every script kiddie with half a brain can rip the data, but I really wish more games adopted that attitude...)"
Best part is that FSS didn't catch it.
>Even though I really am a touhou fan, I never had any affection for Zun. To me he always has been an asocial nerd who spends his time in his little room making his own business without ever assuming the phenomenon that touhou has become, and showing the most explicit disrespect for the international touhou community. As a frequent user of both nicodouga and youtube, I am quite confident to say that there are more (probably even WAY more) touhou fans in the whole world excluding Japan than there are in Japan alone. So sorry, but don't come and tell me that the poor little scared child wants everything to stay "within the reglementations of Japan" because, guess what ? Touhou isn't japanese anymore, it's a worldwide phenomenon, and if Zun actually believes you can become famous worldwide and get a huge international fanbase WHILE staying in his confort zone and continue his little life as if those million people never existed then he'd better sell the whole thing, 'cause he doesn't deserve any of that success he has. This is disrespectful for his fans and insulting. I have never seen Zun promoting or offering support to people working on a fangame, or a fan-made anime, or anything that could make touhou something (even) better. But I learn here it's not the first time that he comes and ruins a project without reason. Here we see it again with that Touhou Smash project. I mean, look at that, look at the quality of the work that has been done, the time that has been invested. Zun doesn't even have the skill to do something a tenth as good as this quality-wise. But, no, he doesn't want it done, so he decides to just crush everything and put a year of work to waste.
>>15169792
Does he not know what a doujin is?
>>15169792
Was he serious when he wrote that?
My god, this is cringe incarnate.
>>15169567
Hah! That was greatly put.
>Best part is that FSS didn't catch it.
Somehow that doesn't surprise me.
>>15169792
All i read is pure destiled salt.
If ZUN doesn't allow me to profit from his IP then I want nothing to do with it. Don't deny the importance of financial incentives for game developers. Money makes the world spin.
>>15170032
"Money is how the community steers work." -Gabe Newell
>>15169792
Holy shit.
>>15169792
>As a frequent user of both nicodouga and youtube
>>15169792
>Even though I really am a touhou fan, I never had any affection for ZUN
If you don't care for the guy who makes what your a fan of and it wouldn't exist without them, why bother being a fan of it in the first place? This guy is a fucking idiot I swear.
>>15156966
Every time this chart is reposted it gets more insane.
>>15169792
ZUN is love. ZUN is life.
>>15169792
So much salt he could make a profit.
>>15169567
>which, eh, fine, it's Touhou after all, it's always been about commerce and never about free culture
What did he mean by this? Genuine question.
>>15170473
Sarcasm.
>>15169792
If anyone in the Eastern community saw this I swear that little degenerate would be torn to shreds. Where did this excerpt originate from?
>>15169792
>>15170032
>>15170487
Ah, forgot to turn on my detector like an idiot there. Thank you.
>>15144617
What happened to saijee? I remember the butthurt on these threads, it was very funny.
>>15171055
https://youtube.com/user/FromSoySauce
He's still going, but hasn't posted an update to his Smash game in a few months. At last check (I only watched a bit of his last Smash update) his Dart voice was even worse.
>>15170524
This is retarded, how was Cave Story not a doujin game?
>>15171250
Ruw's intention here was to label derivative works as "doujin" and original works as "indie". Not the greatest labeling but he was trying to direct this to the western audience (hence the english).
Note that the crowdfunding box is well within the "indie" circle for original works, and how Touhou and Astebreed are a mix because they're original works but were heavily drawn from existing works when they began.
It's also kind of about commercial sales ("indie") versus independent sales ("doujin"), but that's mostly a consequence of being an original work or not.
>>15171187
From what I hear his code is an unorganized mess, and he wouldn't know the meaning of "decoupling" if it hit him in the face. While his coding style can produce fast results early on, it becomes nigh-impossible to work with as a project grows more complex.
Basically he's not a good programmer, just a persistent one, which should surprise no one.
>>15172025
From what I understand TSSB was his first Unity game after switching to it from Game Maker; as such, he programmed the game like it was a Game Maker game, even though Game Maker's style of programming does not fit an engine like Unity at all and leads to messes like what was seen in TSSB.
>>15171187
He changed the name of the smash game to Nansei Doujin Spirit out of spite after the incident, then changed the name again and hasn't worked on the game since (did new character designs but that's it) as far as I know.
Shows just how little interest he had in it once he learned he can't make money and be famous off of touhou IP.
>>15167103
What the fuck even where those fucking shitheads thinking.
This is not even "western indie game"-style of art like they claimed to be, it looks like some shitty sims-tumblr-avatar style of crap a fucking 10-year old would go for.
>>15158305
Holy shit so they really DO draw like 10-year-olds.
>>15145423
>>15150058
pic related just makes this more hilarious
>>15175115
if accuracy is so important why are her colors so weird
>>15175132
Because Saijee is a hack
>>15175115
>Sakuya dual wielding machetes/cutlass instead of knifes
One of my best friends went to school with Saijee. Said he was an insufferable cunt, so I'm not surprised to hear about this. I heard about his little smash pet project but I had no idea it had this much drama.
>>15175115
This is horrible.
>>15169792
>I have never seen Zun promoting or offering support to people working on a fangame, or a fan-made anime, or anything that could make touhou something (even) better
How entitled.
You'd be happy to be even allowed to make fan material without getting C&D or sued by companies.
Fucking shitter, I'm happy his project shut down.
>>15176360
>You'd be happy to be even allowed to make fan material without getting C&D or sued by companies.
Just compare it to KanColle. You aren't allowed to sell fangames for KanColle in any form. I don't particularly like KanColle, but it's sad that they are stifling creativity like that by allowing doujin music/art/etc... but not games.
That could be programmed into the Character.pac file. Or could be added with support from a geckOS code.
>I don't care if the creator's a faggot as long as they can produce a good game
>It ends up getting cancelled after a massive drama full of egotism and misunderstandings
Every single time. If only they put all of that energy toward meeting people's expectations instead of subverting them or whatever.
>>15176814
I've found that projects which tend to succeed are ones for which the creator(s) has a very strong personal vision and views fans as "along for the ride". That way, all you have to do is find a creator with a vision you think is interesting, and you'll be able to enjoy the project as long as the developer remains interested. If the project's goals shift around to suit the masses, it will [almost] inevitably disappoint you sooner or later in favor of a newer crowd's interests.
Well, at least the new 2hu smash project isn't ran by retarded people.
>>15169792
>I have never seen Zun promoting or offering support to people working on a fangame
I guess he forgot about IaMP, and all its successors.
Do you have a source for your whole quote? I'd love to see the full context of this.
>>15176449
Especially considering, unlike Touhou, you can easily make a Kancolle game that has better gameplay than the official game simply by nature of its genre. I guess that's why they disallow it.
>>15144617
I remember going to that panel. Pretty hilarious now that I think about it
>>15175115
Wait, Sakuya is cutting herself here?
>>15175115
Personal opinion, but even if he fixed the faces the designs are absolutely horrid. Touhou characters rely not just on the pallet, but also on distinct silhouettes and poses. In a 3d setting it means that they should be modeled with different styles, without it it could just be one girl cosplaying everyone.
I mean Saijee's too much of a shitter to do it but just a thought.
I have to wonder if Saijee himself made this thread and is still buthurt over the incident.
Only Saijee would think his game being shut down ruined all other western touhou fangames from ever being madeand think that it would be played in gensokyo despite it being an incomplete mess of shit.
>>15170499
>>15177052
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCd5wlUiuCY&lc=z130uv0yuprwhxzil04ccrchcrnfyrdot40
i linked the comment, make sure you read them all if you want to feel some real fucking agony
>>15182713
It's no secret that youtube is a breeding ground for some of humanities biggest retards.
>>15182985
Probably the reason why he chooses to answer people there; he knew he'd build up a fan base that would be stupid enough to think that he was in the right and ZUN was wrong if anything were to ever happen to his game project.
>>15183311
It also helps that it's away from the primary sources of action that the drama was on, namely, as it seemed, Maidens of the Kaliedoscope. If he kept people in the dark they'd be doubly stupid.
Granted it's not like MotK is less dumb. The guy who started the new Touhou Smash came from there, and apparently he got in fights with Saijee over how casual the game should be. Saijee wanted hardcore, the other guy wanted a pure party game. Saijee wouldn't budge so he started the new game in the final days before the drama came to its climax.
>>15182713
Why was it called "The Doujin Spirit". I got to ask.
>>15183554
I assume its Saijee attempting to make it seem like his indie game was doujin, despite the fact that he literally couldn't/refused to grasp the concept of it.
So he thought that slapping the name on his game makes it part of the "spirit" of doujin work. Also, this is nothing more than him being bitter over not being able to make money off of touhou IP.
>>15183547
It wasn't the opposite? We're talking about a guy who added an easy to use wavedash button into the game.
>>15183554
This came after pages and pages of people tried to educate him on what he was doing wrong, the unwritten rules of doujin vs. indie and so on.
Once he felt like he understood he named it that for some reason, I guess with what >>15183616 said in mind. People even noted it seemed more like a passive-aggressive dig than anything sincere.
His intention was to actually use the story to teach people about "doujin spirit" even though he hadn't really learned anything at all.
People even told him some other group had a Touhou-inspired series called Nansei and he still wanted to go ahead with it.
>>15169792
>reglementations
>>15183547
The other guys didn't like shit like the wavedash button nor the way Saijee was handling it, thats why they decided to do shit right.
I don't think MotK is less dumb, least for certain the people running the place knows what the fuck they're talking about.
>>15144617
On top of everything that's already been said
>only EoSD characters
That's a red flag on it's own.
>>15169792
>I mean, look at that, look at the quality of the work that has been done, the time that has been invested. Zun doesn't even have the skill to do something a tenth as good as this quality-wise.
Kill me
>>15184181
These were actually models for a game he planned on previously. Though I think he may have wanted to include them at some point.
I think of that picture the release roster was only going to include Reimu, Marisa and Sakuya along with Yuuka, Tenshi, Rika and a couple others.
>>15183679
>It wasn't the opposite? We're talking about a guy who added an easy to use wavedash button into the game.
Let me put it this way: the wavedash button was also used to fly. He still called it the wavedash button rather than the flight button.
Saijee said he was only interested in targeting hardcore tournament players, because casuals by definition can't tell the difference between quality and shit, and they'd play it no matter how bad it was. Also that including stuff like tutorials automatically makes it a worse game.
If you say "That can't be true, he was marketing mainly to Touhou fans who'd never played a Smash game before" that's because Saijee thought that EVERYONE knew how to wavedash, and believed that "casual Smashers" were a rare breed of idiots rather than 80%+ of players.
>>15183679
>It wasn't the opposite? We're talking about a guy who added an easy to use wavedash button into the game.
There's posts by the guy who started it saying that they wanted to keep the game "as far from Melee as possible, something more like Brawl or Smash 4", or something like that. It doesn't totally seem like they're going in this direction anymore, but that's what it was at the start.
>>15185008
You're sure this wasn't just backlash against Saijee's inane "Smash 4 is literally Brawl 2.0 and it ruined the franchise forever" rants?
>>15185034
Well, it might be. I've spoken with the guy and it seems he really dislikes Melee fanboys to the point that he wouldn't want to create a game that appeals to them. From talking with other members of the team though, it seems a lot of the team has trouble with his additude in general, and he hasn't had much in the way of actually making the game he started.
>>15175547
She has at least one knife in her hand apparently
>>15186082
I like the Gamecube graphics on that image.
Looks pretty alright. But is that an updated image or an old one, before the retarded looking faces?
>>15178865
Asking again.
Do I fucking see sprite of Sakuya cutting herself like an emo? In what game it happens?
>>15175115
>>15186444
The 3D model looks more like she is cutting her wrist.
The sprite under it though, That brown colour fools your eyes a little, thinking that it's blood.
>>15186444
She's blocking with her knifes I believe
>>15186208
Kinda an update back then when he was building stages, but Sakuya and the others still have terrible faces as he never fixed them (ironically he did alter the outfits and poses, but anyone asking for the faces to be fixed were either ignored or told that he can't see an issue with them cuz he has "tunnel vision" or some retarded excuse).
>>15183547
>Granted it's not like MotK is less dumb. The guy who started the new Touhou Smash came from there, and apparently he got in fights with Saijee over how casual the game should be. Saijee wanted hardcore, the other guy wanted a pure party game. Saijee wouldn't budge so he started the new game in the final days before the drama came to its climax.
Pretty sure this is totally incorrect outside of disagreements for what who a Touhou smash game should be targeting
>>15176212
In the past, or are they in the current classes now? If now, did they show up in that video he made imitating E3 demo showing?
>>15145490
this post set me off so fucking hard about how Marisa is pronounced that I had to go look it up again and spent like two hours muttering to myself how it should be pronounced, just to make sure I was still doing it right.
Seriously, "Mah-leesa"?? What the fuck kind of mongoloid tongue-waggling is that?
>>15189293
http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/4/43/Pronunciation_MarisaKirisame.ogg
It makes sense if you just divide it up into ま, り, and さ. Japanese is nice in how it's phonetic.
Also http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/a/ab/Pronunciation_Cirno.ogg
チルノ I don't see why people all around keep pronouncing it wrong, you can just pronounce each sound by itself, and then put them together.
>>15189316
sirno
So if my information is correct, there is another touhou smash game being developed right now, and not by the same guy?
>>15189427
Yes.
https://github.com/HouraiTeahouse/FantasyCrescendo
>>15186500
>>15186643
Now when I look at it I see that handles are just reddish and I see the blades.
Welp, my bad.
>>15189328
Chirno
>>15189666
Cool, thanks. To bad Saijee will commit sudoku.
>>15189729
Shirno
>>15189293
It's the mouth of the down's syndrome.
Add that fat tongue & slop with he Word 'Marisa' to 'Mah-Le-lesaa-aa~'
There you go! Now you can say the name Marisa as a down's syndrome kid.
>>15145039
Exactly what I thought when I saw them.
>>15189757
/ˈsɜːr.noʊ/
>>15189316
>>15189328
>>15189729
>>15189757
>>15190650
Zirno, Shirno. Cirno, Chirnoble
tfw you're in a country that says the letters z, ,ch & s diffrently.
Fucking 'ch' is pronounced 'k' where I live. So when you guys say 'Chirno', I think of the word 'Kirno', while 'sh' is the 'Chirno'.I find it funny when you Look up the character Kana Anaberal & then translate the name Kana in Finnish. Get ready for the giggles.
![2D2qMbo[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/AILckVS.png "2D2qMbo[1].png")
Just searched up fantasy crescendo,
have to say I am pretty disappointed.
>>15190801
>>15190801
I don't want to take this for granted,
but how hard is it to find decent artists?
Why can't we have nice things?
Why are the nips so much better than us?
>>15190863
Them: Pixiv
>good artists a dime a dozen
Us: Deviantart
>furries and 12 year olds
This is why
>>15190801
She has the body of an old man
>>15190918
She has not done the makeup facedesk thing.
>>15190904
Deviantart has decent artists too, the problem is that the community sucks up so hard to them that they think they're the king of the world, and it becomes impossible to work with them because of their overinflated ego.
>>15190801 is an okay effort though, there are plenty of fangames with worse art.
>>15190904
Pixiv is just as bad as DeviantArt when it comes to having bad art, it's just that most of the people we see ourselves are picked out as the good ones. Just search Touhou on there sometime and you'll see what I mean. Like this.
>>15191074
That is so horrendously awful it is almost cute.
Raymu Hawkray, the American Mico
>>15190801
I'm not a fan of Reimu's ZR, and I don't know what the hell is going on with Sakuya, but their in-game models look pretty decent.
>>15190801
>have to say I am pretty disappointed.
That's the standard reaction so far. It definitely isn't helped by the art, which as you noticed is... yeah.
>>15191374
Not very good. And let's not get started with the roster...
>>15191381
Not complaining about Reimu and Marisa since they're a given, and I'm not complaining about Wriggle either. She's cool. The new design is kind of eh but I do like the idea of seeing her in a fighting game.
>>15191389
But what the fuck is this? Yuuka? Who the hell would put Yuuka of all people in a fighting game? It's not like she's even popular or anything. I don't see the logic here.
>>15191395
And Minamitsu? Is this a joke? Did they forget that Ichirin exists? Or was she not literally built for a fighting game near as much as they wanted her to?
>>15191396
And Yuugi. This is literally no reason to pick Yuugi over Suika, the guy who decided the roster is just a fucking hipster.
And that's when it hits you: "oh, they're trying to use characters that don't have much relevancy" and I like that idea and I think it has merit.
>>15191405
But then what the fuck is this? If the idea was to use underused characters for the roster, then WHY the FUCK is Sakuya here?
>>15191410
And of course it has Youmu, because fuck you that's why.
In short, the art is bad and the roster is fucking stupid and since that's all we have to base the game on so far, that results in the general reception not being all that high. They revealed the game way too early, I think.
>>15191405
>And Yuugi. This is literally no reason to pick Yuugi over Suika, the guy who decided the roster is just a fucking hipster.
Because it's a Smash Bros. game, and Yuugi is one of the best candidates for a Ganondorf/Little Mac type.
Youmu probably has a "Fire Emblem swordsman" moveset, and Minamitsu might end up playing something like Corrin.
>>15144617
they have man faces
>>15191418
>the art is bad
Nigga wat? Have you like, never seen bad art before or something? This is all extremely passable. They at least look kinda cute and they aren't being oversexualized like every other game out there.
>>15191718
Sorry, I meant to say "not good". My bad.
I don't think it looks very appealing, that's all. And the changes to some of the designs feel completely pointless to me.
>>15191718
2hous are inherently sexy and the faces look like shit
>>15191395
>>15191396
>>15191405
>>15191410
>>15191418
I don't see what's wrong with the roster, and I think you're just being angry over nothing.
>>15191374
>>15191381
>>15191389
>>15191395
>>15191396
>>15191405
>>15191410
>>15191418
So you're saying this roster is worse than Saijee's?
His had the following: Sakuya, Reimu, Tenshi, Yuuka, Shiki Eiki, Shinki, Medicine, Tewi, Rika
Keep this in mind as well: Saijee wasn't even going to have Marisa as a playable fighter in his game because he doesn't like her and the only reason why she eventually got included was because someone had to give him a lot of money on his crowdfunding to have her in.
>>15192363Those posts are probably Saijee's Deviantart fans that are posting those just to skip the shit talk about Saijee's "artwork". Butthurt as fuck.
>>15190650
Shilno
After checking with text-to-speech, in my country it would be worded "Cirno" or "Ciruno", kind of hard to tell, depends a bit how it is said.
>>15148172
Helepolis (a dutch guy) sold his fangame there.
It probably helps that he collaborated with some Japanese devs on it though.
>>15192131
I just don't like the roster, okay? I think they should have either gone with something more standard, or drop Sakuya and Youmu and go full hipster modo (Seiga and Sekibanki would have been nice). As it is, I can't accept it.
>>15192363
>>15192386
>but muh saijee
You're the ones bringing him up, not me.
>>15193096
Why would they do something standard? just like regular smash they feature unpopular characters and highly popular characters together, to go full hipster is stupid.
>>15193096
>hipster
>>15169792
>I mean, look at that, look at the quality of the work that has been done, the time that has been invested. Zun doesn't even have the skill to do something a tenth as good as this quality-wise.
>>15145184
>gaijin nose
top lel
>>15190693
>Chirnoble
>Chernobyl
That's not Okuu.
>>15193622
This meme needs to die already.
>>15194224
O.k.u.u.: Honks of Chenobyl
>>15190801
>>15191374
>>15191214
>>15191410
As an artfag, I puked a little
>what is anatomy
>what is proportion
Hopefully they find a better artist soon, because I actually like the idea of the game
>>15194791
They should ask you to do the art.
>>15191214
Her sword is fucking twisting LMAO
>>15194807
I will, for 400 USD per drawing.
>>15194832
The game is open source, if you don't like the art you can just fork it and replace it with your own ;)
Hourai Teahouse Marisa model test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRqset5IWjE
>>15145564
This is fucking hilarious. His dad wrote that garbage? omg
>someone who didn't know what touhou was bought one of the character slots and chose marisa
