What is the standard of "fluent in Japanese"?
How do we recognise good Japanese learner and native Japanese speaker?
>>14428931
Are you being dumb on purpose or...
>>14429012
I dunno, there are a lot of claims to fluency in /jp/ and I feel like at least some of them aren't using the same standard.
Being able to pass a JLPTN1 mock test.
>>14429098
I've seen many people passed JLPTN1, but not everyone were fluent.
To be honest, most people weren't "fuluent".
>>14429291
There's a difference between fluency and native level. I'd say fluency is being able to pass whatever test and being able to communicate pretty much anything if somewhat awkward. Native level is being able to communicate pretty much anything without sounding awkward or having people notice that you aren't a native speaker.
>>14429098
Someone who passess that level of the test should be decently fluent in terms of understanding (which is what's tested), but might be surprisingly weak in terms of production.
>>14428931
A bit unrelated but where is the learning JP language general?
Is it in /jp/?
>>14429356
It's on /a/
>>14429356
There's a Japanese learning thread in /a/ that's up 24/7. I don't visit it so I can't say anything about the quality.
>>14429362
I can tell you about the quality. It's a fucking shit hole.
>>14429356
You can try the /int/ Japanese thread
>>14429362
You are right. But, sometime you can taik with real Japanese. SOMETIME
>>14428931
Come on OP, really?
I am not native english speaking, I have never properly 'learned' english either. Yet, I consider myself fluent. I am even working in an english speaking environment.
Fluent is fluent. If I can have a conversation with someone in any language and about any every-day topic then I am fluent in that language.
>>14428931
I like that girl's porn.
>>14429489
Are you fucking kidding me? Going to some shitty general full of normalfags, weaboos and retarded proxyfags trying to pretend to be Japanese? I'd sooner kill myself with cheese wire.
The circlejerking generals are what killed /int/ in the first place. What's the point of going on an international board if all you're going to do is suck the cocks of your fellow countrymen?
>>14429797
>What's the point of going on an international board if all you're going to do is suck the cocks of your fellow countrymen?
In general, people on 4chan do not want to talk amicably with others of different opinions. Its either a circlejerk or an argument, or an attempt to disorient either.
>>14429322
Yeah this. I still needed practice to speak fluently, even after passing N1. It only took a couple of weeks though, I needed to learn quickly for a job and thankfully I wasn't fired while I was getting used to communicating in Japanese. If you have enough knowledge to pass N1 and are already used to Japanese sentence structure then it shouldn't take that long before you can produce like a pro.
>>14429840
>In general, people on 4chan do not want to talk amicably with others of different opinions. Its either a circlejerk or an argument, or an attempt to disorient either.
This is an accurate description of 4chan.
>>14429797
Oh go fuck yourself with a rusty spoon, I was trying to be helpful.
Anyway gosh calm yourself deary.
>>14429857
For a second there, I thought you said it only took you a few weeks to reach N1, and I seriously considered myself to be untermensch.
Anyway, how long did it take you to pass N1, and did you receive formal schooling in Japanese?
>>14429883
No formal schooling. I started teaching myself when I was 13 and I passed N1 seven years later. I probably could have passed it a year, maybe two years earlier though.
>>14429840
Actually, I would rather discuss/argue with people who are willing to give way and actually consider other people's opinions instead those who immediately become defensive when you point out something they said that's wrong. There is nothing more annoying than having someone reply to your post with a pepe image or some retarded meme repeatedly just because they are "pretending to be retarded". The worst part is these fags have invaded every single board in recent years.
These people are the sole reason why we have containment boards.
>>14430075
It's dead easy to counter that kind of canned response though if you have a half decent argument. When meme posting works as a way to win an argument on 4chan, it's usually because the person being meme'd has a really weak position or doesn't actually believe in their cause.
When fighting with people online I usually reserve image macros and one liners for those times that someone says something so retarded that it doesn't even justify a proper response.
>>14431277
no u
>>14431300
Nice dubs
>>14428931
>How do we recognise good Japanese learner and native Japanese speaker?
Go to /int/.
It's pretty easy to tell them.
>>14429797
>proxyfag
I thought 4chen will ban proxies.
>>14433023
Some slip through the cracks.
>>14433029How do I into cracks?
>>14433041
Copy paste the files into the install dir
>>14433043
I am not sure if that's the kind of information taht I want.
>>14428931
You'll struggle to get an answer because "fluent" is not a well-defined term.
Functionally, "fluency" means the point at which you can cope in a foreign language completely, e.g. you might be fluent in French. You don't know ALL French, you might not fool a native speaker on the telephone, but if you're having a conversation with a French person and they say something you don't understand, you could ask for an explanation and they can explain it to you IN FRENCH - so you never have to speak English.
With Japanese, this is further complicated by Japanese people finding it very difficult to accept a gaijin who can speak Japanese super-well. I had a friend who worked for a corporation over there; on the phone, a native Japanese person would think she was Japanese. Then we'd turn up as a group at a restaurant, and the server would immediately address our of-Korean-descent friend (who is American and speaks very little Japanese). My white, perfect-Japanese-speaking friend would politely jump in to help out, and it would take the server several sentences being repeated before they got over the cognitive disconnect of "white person, perfect Japanese".
>>14433237
>"fluent" is not a well-defined term
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fluent
>>14433237
Classic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80
>>14433422
I got a kick out of the black guy's accent.
>>14433237
I love being the white guy who speaks JP in a group of all asians none of whom speak JP, and the confusion it causes. It's pretty funny to watch peoples' reactions.
Even after all these years of speaking english I run every now and then into words I have never heard before. And it's even the same in my native language. So there is always something to improve.
When I was in japan with a friend who spoke decent japanese, people would often compliment him. Probably because they are used to foreigners speaking barely any japanese.
It's obvious when they engage in a non-trivial conversation or if you look at something they write that is not professional well-formatted text or internet slang post. Most of the time, you can easily tell even as a non-native speaker yourself provided you know more than a bit of Japanese.
Of course you can always learn a language so well that people think you are native but the standards in the US doesn't really apply to a homogeneous culture like Japan because there are so many immigrants 2nd gens in the States. Whereas in Japanese there are so many nuances and details to make up the right language. That and there are a lot more xenophobes who will accuse of anything suspicious of "weird Japanese"/ "zainichi otu".
Why weebs always overestimate their Japanese skill?
Can't they realize Japanese people speak really slow and using only basic words when they talk with them?
>>14434320
Japanese people don't all speak in the exact same way. Unless your Japanese is really strange/incorrect, most people will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're Japanese until they see/hear otherwise.
It'd probably be easier for a native Chinese to pass for a Japanese in Japan than for a French to do the same in the UK or US.
This is just a purely personal opinion, but I would say that the difference between "very good" and "fluent" lies in how well you can talk/read the language in a technical setting. A fluent speaker might not now all the words, but would understand their meaning after seeing them only once in context and therafter be perfectly capable of using them.
Though this might just be me.
>>14428931
If you get JLPTN1 and KANKEN3, you can say I'm Japanese.
Even the niggers in Roppongi can speak japanese and pick up a pussy every night.
What's your excuse?
>>14441203
>kanken3 instead of best kanken
Pathetic.
>>14442689
kanken1 is hard for Japanese, as well that they can't pass it without studying.
It's for professionals.
>>14445559
Those words don't really represent the difficulty of kanken 1 as they are actually very easy.
>>14445570
>they are actually very easy
Yeah, easy for Japanese to read them.
But we have to write them at exam.
other examples:延縄 飄飄 蹉跌 畢竟
>>14445603
>畢竟
I saw this word several times on Japanese novel, but I'm not sure I can write it correctly.....
>>14445656
蹉跌 is also pretty common one.
Why are so many Kanji otaku in here?
>>14445706
>/jp/ - Otaku Culture
>>14445603
>>14445656
I totally thought this was a Chinese only word. Turns out it's a Buddhist concept,
>>14445706
coz we are all filthy weebs desu
My bucho always thinks I'm quiet because Japanese is my second language but it's just because I'm quiet
I feel full blown autist in English
>>14450182
Don't make bucho worry autie
grab some drink with him/her
>>14445656
畢竟、あなたは読書が好きなのですね？
Am I right?
I speak English in Japan to not embarrass myself, but I usually keep my mouth shut. I let my Japanese friends do the talking unless I'm directly adressed.
Learning to write kanji by hand is pointless except as a hobby. Many Japanese people even can't write common words without consulting their cellphones.
>>14455862
Said by a white gaijin scumbag who doesnt know anything.
>>14455913
he knows english
>>14455913
It's tru tho family
>>14455913
He's kind of right, bud. It's a pretty fun hobby though. I love blowing Japanese folks' socks off by writing random words.
>>14456686
I can write thousands of kanji, but I can't remember the kanji words a made up of unless I see the word. I might have wasted years of my life with RTK...
>>14456701
Just read more.
>>14455212
yes
The common way to say it is 結局
Why do you even learn Japanese? Ryan Boundless said that it's pointless, the Japanese only get super defensive and tense up if you try speaking Japanese to them. It simply put offends them.
Just keep talking English to them and they will be much friendlier.
>>14462222
Ryann literally who?
>>14462222
Everyone in the whole world will be confused if weirdo speak creepy language.
That's all
>>14462257
He is the only white guy in Japan who will give you the #realtalk and #nothingbuttruth about Japan. (Note that he is NOT a JVlogger, he is just a guy who HAPPENS to be living in Japan, you weiboos!)
