I need a bit of advice, /ic/. I wanted to join a VN/game project for fun, however the project leader wants to go commercial. I don't care about being paid and would honestly do it for free (I just want to make something of my own), but I thought I'd be fine if we went the paid route as well. It just means getting money to do something I was gonna do anyway, right?
However, our leader has started looking for sprite artists to complement our project (and work along with me, it's only been me and him until this point and he's the writer). And looking at the applications that have been sent in, it's clear to me that I'm vastly outmatched.
Pic related is a concept painting I made a few days ago for the project. I'm still learning, and hoping to get better at painting eventually, but I realistically don't think I'll get much better than that in the timeframe this project is going to exist. The offers that have been sent in by other artists are much better than this.
What should I do? I feel like there is no way in hell I'm going to be able to keep up with somebody who is significantly more skilled than me, but asking somebody (including my team lead) to downgrade their expectations or the quality of their work so that I have a chance to match them seems outright insulting for everyone involved.
Pic related is a quick demo of one of our characters an applicant has sent. She also offers good rates and seems to understand the project's atmosphere well.
The only real reason why she would not be picked is if someone even better somehow came along, so I know I can't expect things "not to work out" or for this level of quality to be out of the project's league.
>>2538106
Your painting doesn't say much about your drawing ability, which might be more impotant, so it's hard to say.
Regarding you being outmatched or not depends mostly on your leaders budget. Even a small game would need a lot of art, and a somewhat professional artist doing this fulltime would at least demand 20+ USD/hr.
If your leader made an request, without informing about pay, and then he really just got 1000 buck budget, you might get many applicants that would turn you down once they hear the rates.
But still, a game, small or big, needs many kinds of designs at many levels of difficulty.
A big developer would use their top guys for the main chars and such, and then juniors or even freelancers get everything in between, from designing UI to mundane objects in the game etc. Regardless of your potential partners level, you could still do some "lesser important" parts.
That's not bad for a concept piece. The thumbnail looks really nice and I highly doubt those applicants are going to work without pay. A lot of people apply to every job they can without really reading the description, so make sure first they're not expecting tons of money.
Secondly, 2 people are making a 3D game? That is just not going to work, mate. Nowadays everyone thinks making games is so easy, but the truth is that the vast majority of projects fail quite early. I've been part of a few unpaid projects at the beginning of my career and they all seemed promising in the beginning, but very soon they died due to incompetence, laziness and lack of people.
If you just want to make a portfolio, you don't need to work on real projects. Do personal art and make sure it's good. Maybe do some series of things that look like it's been part of a project. Then apply to real, paid jobs.
Learn to photobash as well.
>>2538139
Our project lead would be able to hire this artist for full sprite production. They have a budget of 11 000 USD saved up for this, and that's before any kind of crowdfunding they'd like to turn towards.
As the game is a VN, I'd be doing the backgrounds while the other artist would do the character sprites. Backgrounds are an integral part of the game, and need to mesh with character sprites to a reasonable degree.
This is a simple layout of forms/colors I've been trying to figure out for an attempt at a background. I feel like I have no real idea what I'm doing. I'd be expected to work on equal terms with a person who has the technical skills of an industry professional, and on color composition and rendering alone, I feel like I'd be unable to match that.
Basically I'm just what the fucking about this right now.
>>2538143
As I mentioned in the OP, this is a VN, so a 2D art game. The EVN scene is pretty small, and this artist went out of their way to talk to us and produce the specific sprite I posted above as a sample, and also had a pretty extensive conversation with me and the writer. It's fairly certain they would be hired at this point, and as I mentioned above, the writer's budget would allow it.
The problem is more that I thought I'd be fine making this project as it didn't look too high stress or high profile, but I'd essentially be making work that would be expected to match the quality of professional artists' and I have no idea what to do now.
Thanks to you and the other anon for your replies, it's appreciated.
>>2538152
This.
Besides, it'd be a great learning experience.
>>2538152
I wanted to do a project that I could feel proud and satisfied with. That wouldn't really be feasible if I was the newbie responsible for creating a bunch of amateur art in a VN that had an otherwise super professional finish.
I don't think I'm a terrible artist, but I didn't expect to work in something this serious and polished. I know the writer wouldn't scrap my work either way because he's nice to me, and the character artist would probably do it anyway as long as she was getting paid, but I don't feel like I can really invest myself in a project as a hobby if I constantly have to worry about a large quality gap that I can't bridge.
I've tried asking my friends but they all told me to believe in myself, since none of them are artists and I doubt they'd be a dick to me their advice isn't really useful in terms of objectivity.
I'm looking for a second opinion on whether I'm outmatched or not (and how bad), because I haven't found any artists to tell me yet.
>>2538155
you can still be proud and satisfied knowing you did your best and push yourself to the limit. it doesn't mean you should have the best work in the project rather than you gotten better than what you used to afterwards.
comparing yourself to a more better, more experienced artist is a big no no, you're probably thinking tons of people will see your art alongside with the others, fear will cripple you, you'll stiffen up thinking about it rather than doing something productive. it'll kill every ounce of your creativity, your shoulder won't move and you just pander about it. best thing is just kill that mindset by having fun. do what you really want the project to take direction with.
and if I'm right and that girl artist you showed pic has mostly chibi in her DA then let me tell you that she's really good churning out finished pieces in about an hour or less while I'm trying to derp out something in days.
>>2538177
The thing is doing a project where I have to do 30-50 sorta similar BGs from imagination isn't gonna help me get significantly better, compared to the kind of studying I could do. Desperately struggling to make polished backgrounds achieve a specific baseline of decency isn't going to teach me nearly as much as freely being able to concentrate on studies (while gradually setting the bar higher and studying a variety of subjects) would.
I think this thread has helped me confirm that my ambition was to take a fair part in a semi-decent project. I don't care about being the best around (in an absolute or relative manner), but having to put such massive effort into /doing okay/ (when I could be studying instead) isn't what I wanted to do.
Why did I not simply study a ton to begin with, then? Because I wanted to alternate between project and studying/improving, but if I can't have any fun in the project it's better for me to just study.
>>2538185
Just shut the fuck up and either draw for the project or quit. You seem to already be thinking your art is not good enough, so why bother posting here for others to convince you otherwise?
>>2538189
I didn't come here for a pep talk and you'd be wrong to assume I did. I came to /ic/ of all places exactly because my friends were shits who for the most part told me to "believe in myself" and I was hoping here I could at least get other artists' opinions of "yeah you're outmatched" or "nah this level isn't that hard to match".
Instead it seems to have turned into some kind of weird introspective discussion, but I still appreciate the people who shared their input because it helped me make up my mind I guess.
Like the "just do what you can" isn't bad advice, but being told I should do that makes me realize I'd be much better off doing studies until I get better.
All I hear from OP is "waaah, (s)he is better than me". Seems like a classic case of jealousy and self-flagellation because of perceived inadequacy.
OP, this is wonderful opportunity for you to challenge yourself and be part of something good. Keep up at it and see where this train will take you.
>>2538210
Except I didn't join a project to challenge myself, I joined a project to relax. If it turns into another contest/race to greatness, which studies already fucking are, I might as well do studies and at least improve faster.
Have you considered using stock photos or taking photos yourself and using that for the backgrounds? I mean, a lot of professionally made VNs do that. If you take some time to apply filters and paint on top of them, you can also achieve a nice painterly look.
>>2538216
Jesus christ just go do your fucking studies then and delete this thread.
>>2538225
but if i stop replying to these no one will know that i am right
>>2538110
Her blog please.
Also, if you're so certain that you won't be getting any fun out of this, just opt out of the project as soon as possible so your project leader can find someone else.
>the 'project leader'
>I do it for free
You'll find in the coming weeks of working on this purely hypothetical game that this cocklord is going to do absolutely nothing. You'll realize that he intends to take all/most of the money and credit for "his game" that you'll be making all of the content for, and you'll also find that his game simply won't ever be finished because his stupid ass idea would hypothetically take the rest of your natural lives to complete, wasting everyone's time in the process. Have fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWXYoD7wfOs
>>2538231
http://satchely.deviantart.com/gallery/
I did opt out of the project. I'm not sure if the leader will find a good replacement as decent BG artists in the EVN community seem to be super hard (and I ragequit at or around the level of what would be considered "decent" for the scene).
>>2538234
Nah, the guy was a writer (keep in mind VNs are basically books with anime sprites, writing does matter a lot compared to "indie videogame writing" (which is honestly a joke). It's a shame because he was a decent guy too.
>>2538236
>Nah, the guy was a writer
Aren't they all? Maybe he should get a job so he can pay people with skills he lacks instead of trying to con them into bringing his ideas to life "for fun".
>>2538239
>Maybe he should get a job so he can pay people with skills he lacks instead of trying to con them into bringing his ideas to life "for fun".
Did you even read this thread? OP's entire problem is that the writer DID start paying skilled artists, thus OP, who has been doing it for fun by his own choice now feels outclassed and useless.
>>2538252
He said that the "Project Leader" wanted to "go commercial". This means instead of making a free game "for fun" he wants to charge for it, this doesn't imply anything about him paying his staff at all. Just that he's promising a future payout as all idea guys do.
>>2538110
Daaamn what a qt
Come on OP, git gudder
>>2538276
He was ready to pay that artist. In the off chance you're not a troll but actually retarded, you could see by reading the thread I mentioned he claimed to have roughly $11 000 saved up as an initial budget. (And I knew him for long enough to believe that wasn't BS.)
I asked to be paid via rev-share rather than requesting a flat rate when he told me it was going commercial exactly because I didn't want to worry about the money and being "on the clock" for stuff.
>>2538110
>that strap that goes over her breasts
my autism can't handle this
>>2538106
i don't get you, how are you as a BG artist feeling outclassed by the sprite artist? or is it that you want to do sprites as well?
well, looking at >>2538145 i can see where your insecurities come from. but you know, people can use even filtered photos for VNs and it'll be fine. the bar isn't that high.
you really should've used this as a opportunity to improve yourself. look at your art and ask yourself "why isn't this good enough?".
if you didn't despair and kept asking yourself questions like that while looking for solutions, this could've been a great challenge for you. and challenges like this are much better than studying by yourself imo.
>>2538106
>I would do it for free
Are you rich?
>>2538287
I believe a mix of challenges and self-study might be ideal. From the impression I've gotten, though, it's better to concentrate on fundamentals early on, and develop more complex skills alongside them or afterwards. What do you believe the benefits of challenges to be, besides obvious things self-study can't give you like teamwork experience?
>>2538300
> What do you believe the benefits of challenges to be, besides obvious things self-study can't give you like teamwork experience?
i just believe that doing well under pressure is a good trait to have, and challenges provide that pressure.
when you say you want to study, you're basically just asking for more time. and you can keep doing that forever. but under pressure you're kinda forced to just go for it, and that's sometimes needed.
well, there are things like basic drawing ability that can't be just forced like that though so i can get where you're coming from.
has the writer also signaled doubts regarding your ability or is it just you? because right now it looks like you're kicking yourself out due to your insecurites.
and maybe that was the right thing to do, i don't know the full extent of your situation and abilities. but you should've stuck with it a little longer imo.
of course, maybe you just didn't want to make the commitment, and that's fine i guess. in that case getting payed could help motivate you. (i don't get why you're doing it quasi for free anyway)
>>2538315
Those are some pretty valid points, thanks.
Don't let yourself be exploited, anon. If other artists are getting pay so should you. Rev. share is a joke (unless you hit the jackpot) and is considered working for free. You're willingly being a cuck bitch. Please value your time anon or no one else will. Feeling like a inferior artist is no excuse. I know from experience.
>>2538327
>git gud so you can work for free on someone else's game idea
>>2538325
>Please value your time anon or no one else will.
aye
Did you want to make the character art? Because I can understand this, if you lost content you wanted to work on.
This is actually fairly common among artists once they start working together. They either all want to work on the same thing and get upset when someone else takes the thing they were interested in making, or they get highly insecure about their own abilities in regards to the other artists.
First off, in regards to your work being harshly criticized, it doesn't matter if this new character artist was going to join or not. You know why? Because if someone was going to shit on your work, they're going to do it regardless. People are ruthless. In fact, you'd likely get shit on even harder if you also did the character art, since that is the thing people judge far more harshly than backgrounds. Accept the reality that you're going to be shit on, no matter what.
Second, when you work in a team of artists, everyone is always going to have different styles and abilities than one another. That's just life. Every individual artist just does what they can do, to the best of their abilities, and the guy who is putting it all together, is the one making the call whether or not it all looks acceptable together. Meaning, if your project leader takes your background, her characters, slaps them together and thinks "this is good", then it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, because it's not your role to think about that. It's up to someone else to decide if you are ill-fitted or not. Which they already did, by getting in a character artist. If however, they think your backgrounds are worth keeping, why are you getting insecure? He'd replace you entirely if he didn't like your work.
It's a wonder how you're still an artist, if seeing someone slightly better than you is enough to make you want to quit at everything.
But yeah, since you're doing it out of passion and not pay, and you are no longer passionate, distancing yourself would likely be for the best.
