So I got into UCLA's art program and Cooper Union and I'm trying to make a decision before May. Have any anons been to these schools?
Whats /ic/'s views on going to art school in general?
>>2491654
art school is not for beginner artist but for self thought artists who have stopped progressing and need guidance to continue improving. if you are joining with 0 experience on drawing you will spend the whole time learning how to hold a pencil instead of how to enrich your craft. also working/going to school will in no way hinder your progress so don't drop either thinking it will help you improve.
>>2491667
How did you think I got in? Both of them require a portfolio and cooper union has a home test that requires original work. I've been going to an art HS for the last 4 years so I have experience.
I'm hoping to do a work study program in college to cover all the other costs so I'm glad I won't have to drop that.
Is UCLA worth transferring to than UCMerced?
>>2491677
UCLA has one of the best art programs in the country so yes if you want to do art.
>>2491675
well you seem to be on the right path then. so keep it coming.
Been accepted to SAIC, MICA (graphic design) , Ringling (graphic design), and Sheridan (photography) and I've been trying to decide?? All the schools seem pretty equal, besides sheridan having the reputation of being the largest art school in canada
For anyone's who's applied to schools that suggest or require sketchbooks (partial or whole), do you know if you can cut out and paste/add pages from other sketchbooks?
Also did anyone have shit grades in HS? I have a decent SAT score, but my scholarship and even admission chances might be fucked up by my GPA.
>>2491817
I'm op. I'd say go for it. Its what I did when i applied for HS. I think they just want to see what kind of art you make in your day to day life rather than how well you keep a sketchbook
>>2491732
Goddamn how can i afford going to UCLA?
https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/dont-go-to-art-school-138c5efd45e9#.w7rncwj8b
>>2491654
cooper because it's a design school first and not a super huge university with a spare building for art
>>2491965
i looked at the article and hes missing several things about art college
my school has a cintiq lab,printing lab, film lab, 3D printing, as well as a shitload of other top of the line art tech that normal people would have a hard time accessing and its open 24/7 for everyone to use with minor fees for some stuff. Its a load of resources if the student is some sort of try hard who makes good use of these things.
There are also tons of internship opportunities and actual professionals will come in and scout artists or give lectures and all the faculty are industry pros.
its a ton of money yes but hes also picking one of the highest costing and most acclaimed one without accounting for the guaranteed scholarships and grants per semester. Most art school tuitions get a quarter of it shaved off from grants and scholarships and slightly more with subsidized loans and other financial aid
its easy to say "lel don't pay a school for this shit just do this shit on your own", but thats over simplifying a very complex process of learning and guidance
>>2491732
i heard UCs are terrible for art, depends on what op wants to study though
>>2491654
honestly i wouldn't bother with art schools. better to go to a liberal art school and study aesthetics and writings (since most of modern art is writing these days anyways, and i'm guessing you don't want to be a concept artist because neither of those schools are concept art based) and then once you've got a BA in philosophy of art just start making art. galleries don't look at your degree anyways, and if you've been going to an art high school for the past for years you shouldn't need any extra training, but if you do an atelier is much cheaper (although if you've been going to an arts high school you're probably decently wealthy, but still college is expensive and generally not worth it IMO).
Cooper Union is overrated I think, and is going through a lot of troubles currently. I don't even think it's free anymore. The most you would get out of it is probably networking.
Maybe cooper union is different though because they're so selective that everyone is really good, but then what's the point of goign to college?
I don't see the point. Better to learn how to think and write elsewhere, possibly for cheaper.
>>2491761
They're all shitty, especially sheridan.
>>2492401
My school has all this as well. After financial aid I pay $4K out of pocket.
Go to art school only if you'll utilizethe classes and the resources and get connections.
Most of one of my class has not done any of the homework all year or put us behind so now we aren't learning some things we would've because we had to wait for them to catch up. If you're not going to do your work, don't go to art school. You'll waste everyone's time and money not just your own.
>>2492424
OP here. My art HS is public and my family is poor as fuck so I ended up getting a really good financial aid package from cooper and a less good one from UCLA. I might just pick cooper cause its the cheapest out of all the schools I've gotten into. I found out today that I'm the only student to ever get into cooper from my teeny school so that's pretty cool.
I've gotten into 3 liberal art schools (Hampshire, Pitzer, Evergreen) but I'd still want to take art while I was there and all the schools have middling art programs from what I've seen. I'm hoping to get a job actually not as a showing artist but more of an artistic consultant job for a company or do freelance work, but on the side I'd still love to be in shows and sell work.
>>2493339
what kind of art are you doing or want to do? i think cooper is focused on fine arts and illustration type stuff, is that what you are looking for?
>>2493339
Have fun and best of luck! If you have a blog or something where you might write up your experiences that'd be cool to follow. I'm from the UK/EU and not really aware of any schools over here that get as much praise as the ones in the US.
>>2491654
Congrats on getting accepted into art school! Im looking to get my MFA not sure where yet, will definatley apply to UCLA. Art school is what YOU make it. I got my BFA from a midwestern state school but I learned a lot. Many of the horror stories you hear about art schools usually are about students that don't apply themselves enough or students that believe they are better than they really are. Regardless of what school you choose make sure to give it your all, take the good criticism and toss out the garbage. Best of luck!
>>2491654
/Ic/ is generally anti-art school so you will be defending your decision to go rather than getting the advice that you seek.
I think try to spend as little as you can otherwise you are gonna be paying out of your asshole for a very long time.
you said you're poor and cooper union gave you a good package. go there
and >>2492401 is right, it's a complicated issue that 4chan can oversimplify and it also depends on what industry you're looking to enter. art school can be a good idea for some people - I say this as someone who no longer saw the value and left.
>>2491761
I went to Ringling (but not for graphic design). the work is decent but my friend complains it's too open-ended and she doesn't get pushed enough or have specific enough assignments. if you have any other Qs about the school I'll answer.
I don't know why you would go to a school for photography though. Correct me if I'm wrong but is it the kind of industry where connections or a degree matter that much? What's stopping you from buying good gear yourself and meeting up with local photographers or something? For graphic design, I know that corporate places will see some benefit in the degree.
>>2492401
>my school has a cintiq lab,printing lab, film lab, 3D printing, as well as a shitload of other top of the line art tech that normal people would have a hard time accessing and its open 24/7 for everyone to use with minor fees for some stuff. Its a load of resources if the student is some sort of try hard who makes good use of these things.
You don't need a cintiq
You don't need a film lab
You don't need 3D printing
Top of the line tech won't make you good.
If you get a good portfolio you don't need an internship.
>>2493339
Avoid Evergreen like the plague. I was liberal before living in Olympia, that place made me realize how fucked up liberals can get, Going to evergreen for art would be fucking retarded, as most of your learning is self directed.
>>2491817
Of course you can. Just make it clean.
Don't go to art school. Seriously, don't.
t. a CalArts alumni
>>2493804
You are making things sound really easy,i dont think many people have the determination and self discipline and planning to efficientcy become self taught and attain success
>>2493360
I do painting and drawing and a bit of mixed media. I really enjoy sculpting dolls and one of my dreams is to run small doll company but thats more of a hobby that I'm not very good at yet.
>>2493446
Thank you!
Thats a great idea so i probably will try to do that. My online portfolio is dunyearts.tumblr.com (I need to update it badly) so I might try to turn that into personal blog about my experiences if you want to check in in a few months when I move in to college.
>>2493451
I also went to a Midwestern art school. Any recommendations for a good MFA program?
>>2493480
anyone gonna address this?
>>2493480
>>2494308
For me I'm choosing to go to art school for the experience and concentrated educational experience rather than the degree I get after it. A degree matters but a lot of fields are opening up to artists and more and more people with art degrees are finding themselves in places like tech or business. Having a college degree will increase your chances of getting a job anywhere and most companies don't care about what you majored. Most of the artists in the image are anomalies and the image itself is seemingly attempting to suggest to not go to college at all if you want to make it in the art world which is really bad advice. Overall its biased and realistically most artists don't go to art school in the hopes of making big bucks as a showing artist in the first place.
>>2494356
>Most of the artists in the image are anomalies
Not really, it says right there (and this is, once again, based on census data, not a survey or anything like that) that only 16% ( or 1 out of 6) of working artists are arts graduates, making the people in this image very typical - just well known.
>Overall its biased and realistically most artists don't go to art school in the hopes of making big bucks as a showing artist in the first place.
So you're saying artists are deranged enough to blow tens of thousands of dollars "to get better at art" and not expect or even intend to get jobs as artists after the fact?
>>2491654
Op I'm a freshman in UCLA's design|media arts program I can answer any questions
>>2494435
I actually got in for studio art but what are the class structures like? have you taken classes out side of the art dept? what are the like? I'm worried im gonna end up in a 500 person class if I want to try something new out and get nothing out of it.
>>2494648
Since I'm in a different department from studio arts, I can't give you much info on how the classes are like but I'm sure that studio classes have a small class size (under 40). All majors are required to take classes outside of their major for General Education requirements and those classes generally have a similar class structure of around 200 people per lecture. The art classes will definitely be of smaller size and more focus, however, /ic/ does get one thing right and that is that uni gives you as much as you put in. Its easy to slack through intro classes and retain 0 knowledge, but if thats what you're gonna do, you shouldn't be paying to be going to one of the best schools in the nation. As for trying new things, it's not that easy with UCLA's system, especially in the arts/design/film and others, you have to go out of your way to be put in those classes. As an art student though, you're granted the most flexibility with your other classes so you shouldn't be too worried. The better thing about going to uni instead of art school is your exposure to other subjects.
>>2494308
>>2494401
Im not sure why theres such a stubborn argument vs paying for an institutionalized system of learning art
"the degree is useless and you can be self taught"
ok? plenty of things can be self taught, but how can someone guarantee if their method of self teaching is sufficient enough for them to become successful? Its a huge risk to just wing it, maybe that risk is less significant compared to the debt of school, but once you fail or meets challenges, there's no guidance to help overcome those since you are on your own without professional advice from teachers, without peers to communicate with. Art is also a feedback intensive subject, an artist needs to be given constant feedback in order to improve. A school setting does that perfectly, for a self taught setting? not so much. There are some online schools or less expensive programs that do this, however they are insanely hit or miss and might be bigger scams than school so theres more risk taking involve
being self taught can save a lot of money yes, but the process of learning art efficiently is made simple and understandable by art schools. How effective art school is at teaching art can not be debated, it WILL make you into an artist with skills to compete in the industry with a much higher success rate than self teaching. It all depends on whether someone is willing to pay the money.
i wish there were more arguments to help prove self teaching is a stronger method than going to school instead of arguments shitting on art schools. I would be glad to think about them and make an opinion, because as it stands self teaching is a lesser evil that is easier on the wallet but with highly mixed results regarding success rate and actual acquisition of skill.
some people go to school and make it
some people go to school and dont make it
some people self study and make it
some people self study and dont make it
some people end up with debt and make it
some people end up with debt and dont make it
hey its all in your hands, dont get mislead by anons, think for your self.. . . . .
>>2494435
wow ive been considering applying to ucla's dma program how is it? i couldn't find any student work online besides a lot of shitty animations so i'm not sure what to think but the concepts seem really interesting.
also, pick cooper op. it's cheapest. i also go to a 4 year arts school and my family is poor as fuck so i'm going to community college then i'll transfer somewhere just to save cash.
If you don't have the self discipline to learn on your own, you won't succeed anyways.
>>2494742
>If you don't have the self discipline to learn on your own, you won't succeed anyways.
technically true but most people don't have ample time to learn on there own. If all your doing is spending 4 hours a night practicing instead of 12 at school you could be increasing your time to get to a professional level by years.
I'm curious at what the portfolio quality requirements are like, could someone kindly post some examples?
>>2492401
You're not making a very convincing argument. You could have the best Cintiq and a damn good 3D printer for less than $5000, and you'd get to keep it. Are you planning on using any of that stuff after you leave? Either you're going to have to buy these things for yourself after the fact, or having them available to you is a complete waste, regardless.
>>2494702
>Im not sure why there's such a stubborn argument vs paying for an institutionalized system of learning art
No one is making such a sweeping generalization, rather it must be understood by any earnest art student that art schools are very often among the very most expensive schools to attend and among the very worst when it comes to providing their students with a career and life outside the classroom, period. No one should be allowed to go into art school not knowing that, and no art school board members should get rich off of the naivete of their students. That fancy building in the OP didn't come out of nowhere, it's built on a foundation of failure and paid for with a tithe collected from tens of thousands of people who are now working as bar backs or in take-out restaurants and struggling.
These schools owe any of their potential students very stringent entrance requirements to protect the casuals from themselves, and a far more ethical pricing structure than they currently offer. The only way that can happen is if we as artists rally around ateliers, apprenticeships and self-teaching/online courses and force either the market to correct itself or these schools to shutter their doors like many of them truly deserve.
>i wish there were more arguments to help prove self teaching is a stronger method than going to school instead of arguments shitting on art schools.
That argument is once again provided in the numbers. Only 16% of working artists have art degrees. Less than one out of 6 people that make their primary living as artists have an art degree.
>>2495070
The percentage could mean a lot of things, people could drop out before they managed to graduate. It would be great to know what methods the rest of those people did to work in the industry. Also there are potentially specific industries with higher demand for students who went through art college. It is highly likely that low demand arts like fine art painting shat up the stats. We all know there are lots of "dead" art out there, and the article fails to have meaningful stats for different fields and generalized quite a bit.
Maybe the employment rate is still low as shit for art graduates but i would like to see a more detailed analysis and data instead of some vague stats
>>2494926
Yes, but I don't think using student loans to purchase more free time is necessary. Personally my plan is to lower my living expenses to the point where I don't need to work much, leaving the majority of my time for studying.
The best argument for school I think is the connections that you can make there, and for some, university will be a great life experience. For the rest of us though, it's probably not worth it.
>>2495070
Although I tend to agree with you, that 16% stat doesn't exactly mean that self teaching is more effective than school. I would assume that the percentage of people who attempt to learn on their own and succeed is also very low, simply because it's a difficult business.
I'd rather go to art school to compete with others. I don't think I can learn anything I wouldn't be able to find on the internet.
are there alternatives to finding "rivals"?
>>2494731
DMA is probably one of the most unique art programs you can find. It's much more graphic design based than it is fine arts based, so if you wanna go to uni to practice your loomis ect, dma is not for you, though I do that myself outside of class. The reason I decided to join dma was because I have an interest in both programming and fine arts and combining the two, and dma would allow me that freedom. Whats interesting about dma is that only around 50 students are admitted each year, and each one of those students is pretty unique. Bottom line, if you want to go to school for fine arts and rigorously practicing fundamentals, don't choose dma
tfw you get a $56,000 scholarship for KCAI but there's still $60,000 left in tuition...
is it worth the debt? can it actually be paid off?
>>2495764
No. Yes.
>>2491761
Ringling's graphic design program has been floundering since they broke it into smaller majors (motion design, ad, and graphic design). As an illustration student here, I'd only come for Illustration, CA or game art.
>>2491654
what's your area of interest?
Shame about the loss of free tuition at CU.
>>2492388
>>2493360
I wouldn't call it a design/commercial/techinical school; the art program is very conceptual oriented.
>>2492424
>they're so selective that everyone is really good, but then what's the point of goign to college?
To take high schoolers with potential and bootcamp them into good artists
t. cu alum
>>2495764
Maybe
Zak Smith speaks very highly of Cooper:
https://ask.fm/TheActualZakSmith/answers/135464038626
>>2494008
Why not outside of wasting money/other typical arguments? Specifically concerning CalArts?
>>2491761
research where the grads of all those programs work post grad before you commit. graphic design would probably be more lucrative but idk if it'd be worth 40k a year
>>2491817
I did that for NSCAD and OCAD and got in just fine
>>2500035
My area of interest is fine arts. I committed to cooper last night! Thanks for helping me out! I'm just glad this didn't turn into a shitfest and people were actually contributing.
>>2494994
I showed my portfolio at a cooper review day and they said my work was up to par in technique but they wanted some more conceptual stuff.
This is most of the portfolio that i showed to them bit dot ly/26qgiEz
>>2500684
Post your work here for posterity and then you can post your work after you graduate so /ic/ has a point of reference for what a $50,000 art education looks like
>>2500035
>I wouldn't call it a design/commercial/techinical school; the art program is very conceptual oriented.
Never mind, you're not going to learn shit
http://www.cooper.edu/events-and-exhibitions/exhibitions/apr-26-opening-receptions
>my fucking sides
>>2500606
Don't act like money is some small consideration, motherfucker. Each dollar represents precious time you will spend slavishly doing something on someone else's behalf, and if it's an art degree you're getting, that thing will in all likelihood be serving very expensive hot caffeinated beverages to smug pseudo-intellectual liberal twig boys that at least had the foresight to go into STEM
One day I will get tired of shitting on and exposing conceptual art schools that leave tens of thousands of financially broken and abused young adults in their wake, but it is not this day.
Your life is in your hands, OP. Personally I think you can make collages, pour whatever-that-shit-is on the ground and take blurry, awful photographs with incredibly expensive cameras on your own time, but that's just me. Have fun; I'm sure it will be so worth it when you get that great degree and you get hired to...uh...
>>2500684
Great! And good luck! Try to take advantage of what NYC has to offer- the museums are amazing.
Reminder that pic related is the guy saying shit like this
>>2501528
>>2491654
OP, im not an art student but I saw Cooper Union in your post and I know someone there. She is absolutely miserable. They overload you with work because they know you are the best. Shes going crazy and never has time to do anything but work. Shes not art, shes engineering (or physics) so understand that but she is absolutely miserable. Plus theyre charging tuition now. Maybe art would be different from their stem professors but I find a lot of the small selective schools have a terrible work culture. They just dumb tons on you to smother you.
