How well do I actually need to learn how to draw if all I intend on doing is trying to get rich from making kids cartoons?
You don't need to draw at all, just need a marketable idea that the execs will eat up.
>>2466099
Very well, considering you'll have to be the one doing story boards, character design, test animations, backgrounds and then pitch it to some studio executive. That requires serious drawing skills, regardless how simplistic of a style you choose to draw in.
>>2466105
If only being the idea guy would actually work like this, everyone would have at least 5 tv shows under their name.
depends on what job you work for the show.
>>2466110
>Butch Hartman
>Seth MacFarlane
>Soon to be Pen Ward
>>2466130
>those men
>idea guys
>Elmer Earl "Butch" Hartman IV is an American animator, writer, director, producer, illustrator and voice actor
>Pendleton "Pen" Ward is an American animator, screenwriter, producer, and voice actor who works for Cartoon Network Studios and Frederator Studios.
>Seth Woodbury MacFarlane is an American television producer, filmmaker, actor and singer
Seth MacFarlane for example wrote, animated and starred in the pilot episode of Family Guy by himself on a budget about 1/20th of what was considered normal at the time ($60,000), he took a huge risk and it ended up paying off both for him and Fox.
Idea guys on the other hand are just lazy, penniless neckbeards with no tangible skills who happen to have "an idea" and shamelessly solicit others to volunteer their time to help them flesh it out while contributing nothing of value but a concept themselves.
>>2466099
>if all I intend on doing is trying to get rich from making kids cartoons?
first of all don't under estimate how difficult that can be. secondly to draw cartoon characters, let alone animate them, is not an easy task by any means.
go on op, let's see you design a character and do say, four poses of that character on model
>>2466140
You seem to have no idea what an idea guy is outside of a scary stereotype some reject screenwriter teacher told you in a class once.
An idea guy comes up with the premise, the characters, writes the pilot episode, do rough designs even if they're just stick figuresm then has someone better than him re-write the pilot, do re-designs, and basically polish their idea. They might write one good script in their lives, but for the most part, they are the initial pilot creator, director of first one or two seasons, then tend to quit and still get title credits.
You think Seth, Hartman, and Ward were heavily involved in their shows past the first season?
>>2466149
lol unless your in korea/japan/india/china etc youre not gonna be animating shit, just storyboards and designs
>>2466191
>just storyboards and designs
knowing how to animate greatly affects your ability to do these things
>>2466189
Not the one you were replying to, but the term "idea guy" explicitly refers to a person with no valuable skills to add to a project outside of coming up with the very basic plot premise / the pitch. If you are writing the story and dialog, designing the characters and directing the pilot, you are the writer and executive director, not the idea guy.
>>2466099
If you think that's simple you are wrong
this is a drawing from Rebbeca Sugar, she knows A LOT of gesture and expression
>>2466189
>You seem to have no idea what an idea guy is outside of a scary stereotype some reject screenwriter teacher told you in a class once.
No, I know what an idea guy is because they're parasites and they're everywhere; any artist that's dared to put their work out there knows what an idea guy is, it's you who's mistaken.
The people you are describing are multi-talented (I can say this without being "infatuated" with any of the shows with which they're involved) writers, artists, and actors, many of whom spent years in the trenches of the entertainment industry until they were given their break.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2216378
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0366924
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0532235/
>You think Seth, Hartman, and Ward were heavily involved in their shows past the first season?
Whether they're with a show "past the first season" or not is well besides the point anyway, the point is they actually have something to contribute to the production other than some banal idea.
>>2466256
You posting that image just proved exactly you have no clue what an actual idea man is because of your bad experiences of some nobody contacting a freelancer and saying do everything for me. That's not an idea man, that's just a fucking retarded daydreamer.
People like in your image just taint the word similar to how people who will shove trashcans in galleries and call it art have caused the term "artist" to deteriorate into a joke. But an actual idea man in an industry is someone who is better at the bigger picture than the full on execution itself. Alex Hirsch, Rebecca Sugar, the creators of Venture Brothers etc have lots of creative control and think both in big picture and little details.
Someone like Seth is just a big picture kind of guy. He made the initial pitch, presented the characters, and everyone else executed his idea after the pilot for him with him only supervising to make sure they got his vision right. But then ditched that after he got bored. Same thing with Pen Ward. Fuck, he let the storyboard artists have free reign the instant the show got picked up.
Studios hire "idea guys" all the time when scripts are struggling. They're usually referred to as "consultant" in the credits. They basically help brainstorm without actually doing any screenwriting.
TL;DR: Your bad craigslist guy is not an accurate image of what a real idea guy is.
>>2466294
I've had a shitton of idea guy indie devs contact me to make a game with them for potential pay.
They usually pitch an idea that would take a triple aaa studio to make and expect you to work for rev share when you know the game would never get made.
Ideas are a dime a dozen, execution is what matters.
>>2466332
This just sounds like a generic guy coming up to you with an idea and saying "Hurr durr make dis".
Not really an idea guy, but an idiot with an idea.
>>2466367
>This just sounds like a generic guy coming up to you with an idea and saying "Hurr durr make dis".
That's literally always been what an 'idea guy' is though, at least as I've understood the term, no more or less than short hand for pretty much what you just said; 'idea guy' is a flippant, borderline-derogatory term for a generally talentless, penniless and clueless dude with a 'pitch'. Seth Macfarlane, Butch Hartman, Pendleton Ward, even Rebecca Sugar are not 'idea guys'. They are producers, they are artists, writers, actors and musicians who are in the position they're in only through having distinguished themselves for years in the industry beforehand.
>>2466367
You realize that the term "idea guy" is an inherently derogatory term, right? It is always used to describe just that, an idiot with an idea. Someone who has nothing to offer except for an idea. If you are able to write, direct, draw, program or have any other useful skills that you directly use to work on your idea, you are not an "idea guy".
In this thread: How do we cure ourselves from being "idea guys"?
I've got a story I'm like 100% on, I've got the art to create it myself, but I'm slow on the actualization part.
Is it worth the risk to make it everyday but make mistakes as you go along (afraid of plotholes and what makes it into canon), or am I just overthinking it?
>>2466627
Yeah I wonder the same thing.
I have an idea I'd really like to turn into something, but I get too nervous about starting.
For now, I was trying to do some writing to get the whole thing at least planned out. That already is gonna be hard enough to get right, but I won't be publishing it until I'm putting art to it, so I have time to play with it and make it the best it can be.
Yh but dont you have to be good at drawing complex things like anatomy and that before you can draw cartoons
>>2466108
>storyboards
If you think related is difficult, I'm sorry anon.
>character designs
Adventure Time, as an example, is literally just colored stick figures with butts. Again, if that's challenging to you...I'm sorry
>test animation
Rarely will you do test animation for a cartoon show in America, that's mostly America. But still, yeah that could be hard I guess if you DO do it.
>backgrounds
People say the Adventure Time and Steven Universe backgrounds are so beautiful, but they're actually pretty simple in my opinion. I think regular people find simplicity beautiful, so you check "backgrounds" off your worry list
>pitch
Just go to CalArts and make those connections and you'll be fine :^)
>>2466458
It's not inherently derogatory, there are some actually useful ideas guys.
It's just become derogatory in the meme sense.
>trying to get rich
You can just turn 360 degrees and walk away right now. Art isn't for you
>>2468171
This is all true but only because modern cartoons are garbage.
>>2468171
>I think regular people find simplicity beautiful, so you check "backgrounds" off your worry list
Simple doesn't mean it's easy to do or requires little skill. Pic related, steven universe background artist kevin dart
>>2468171
>those mouths
>>2466236
is this fucking bait?
>>2466099
It would certainly help to have a solid idea of anatomy/gesutre/perspective. But beyond that you're probably good
>>2468750
that's PPG though
>>2468766
No. It isn't. She's skilled and to deny that would just make you look like an idiot. Are you putting in the work she did?
>>2466099
This really is a sign of the times. How broken is our generation when this is considered acceptable for adults to watch?
>>2468783
I get what you're trying to say but that doesn't look particularly outstanding, Anon.
There are probably better artists than Sugar on /ic/ right now. I've heard the animation industry is more riddled with nepotism than the banking industry.
>>2468820
CartoonBrew posted about her work and she was getting job offers before she even went to college. She's just good.
>>2468171
sounds like you've got it all covered then. Make sure to give us a heads-up when your cartoon is going to start airing.
>>2466236
That shit is awful.
>>2466099
Have you looked at cartoon designs over the past 25 years? You don't need skill at all.
While I wouldn't claim that the 80s were a goldmine of artistic integrity, at least the characters in the cartoons looked like people, and the overall designs looked like they existed in a three dimensional space.
Since 1990, everything just looks flat, and the designs look like absolute shit. It's like they went back to the cheap 70s style of animation and just threw any sense of form and depth out the window.
>>2468882
The left looks like something that would go on kids underwear.
>>2468820
>I get what you're trying to say but that doesn't look particularly outstanding, Anon.
Given that it's part of a comic (a webcomic at that) it's pretty good looking. I'm not trying to say she's the best artist ever but she's skilled and the only reason people are denying it is because she's involved with something popular. I've seen this song and dance here before.
>>2468882
might have to do with how many things were animated in japan during the 80s. even then though, in terms of animation, those were fucking awful. slideshow shit. there is a reason simpler styles caught on, man.
>>2468809
ask your safe space at /pol/
>>2468893
Totally, man. Everyone who's not a manchild is a nazi.
>>2468891
For the worst cartoons, like the Nickelodeon shit, that's probably true. I think they adopted those awful, flat styles for the sake of cutting costs and allowing it to be animated domestically.
But that doesn't explain why the typical action/adventure shows have adopted the same awful styles, considering they're still animated in Japan and Korea.
Even Batman TAS was animated in Japan and Korea, along with almost every other superhero and 80s rival cartoon.
OP I would be more worried about being good at storytelling than drawing itself.
>>2469020
Sounds about right. If you know how to write, you don't get to make cartoons.
>>2469020
>I got a D in english when I was in college
You do know there's a big difference between writing a report on a book and telling an entertaining story, right? I'm sure you've recounted some story to your friends before and they enjoyed it. Gramma, persuasion, and other things you do in class have nothing to do with whether or not you can tell a story that people will like.
>>2468746
>360
>not 180
You'd end up walking in the same direction you started in.
Getting a job in the industry with no talent is easy.
The difficult part is staying employed after you've spent all the money on cocaine.
>>2469020
Writing is CRUCIAL, because 90% of cartoons are board-driven; i.e., the board artists write much of the story. You can have terrible spelling and grammar and it obviously won't end up in the show, but you need to know how to create setups and payoffs and have believable dialogue. Also, the people who care enough to have proper grammar are usually the best writers anyway.
>>2469254
thatsthememe.jpg
>>2469254
>the newfag test that works eeeevery time!
>>2468783
Except the point of the OP was "how well" does he actually need to learn to draw, and you are confirming for us that the answer is not very. It's a nice piece, for sure, but it's like low-mid intermediate at best.
>>2468882
Are you seriously saying the drawing on the left requires less skill than the one on the right? You're not gonna make it buddy.
>>2466099
You need to be decent, but not that good.
More important to make something loved and popular is genuine storytelling ability. A great comic with shitty art >>> a shitty comic with great art.
Networking is very important.
>>2470393
Are you kidding me? Do you honestly think the one of the left was drawn in the 80s? Are you incapable of recognizing one of the most iconic cartoon characters from the 80s on the right?
Soy un plátano.
>>2471021
Holding up the 80's as some kind of golden standard for animation pretty much destroyed his credibility to begin with.
Western animation's been nosediving since the 50's
>>2466236
SU is shit but it's absurd how people refuse to acknowledge that Rebecca Sugar is actually good at drawing.
>>2470393
You're autistic. The rendering alone on right makes it about 20x more technically proficient
>>2471021
They're both promotional designs, you idiot, and the minor details are irrelevant.
The point is that the design on the right is actually pretty decent. It looks like a robot. It functionally transforms into a truck like the identical toy. It looks like it has depth and form. It has details and components that are actually drawn in the animated show as well, like the indented windshields. Most people would also agree that it's a solid, heroic-looking design.
That pile of shit on the left makes no sense. Considering it's a show about robots that transform, that weird, rubbery, flat pile of shit makes no sense. It doesn't look mechanical at all. There is virtually no detail, the windows are basically flat decals and the perspective is off. The pose and center of gravity are completely off balance. The feet don't even line up with the rest of the body or the ground. Both the technical quality of the drawing and the design itself are awful.
>>2471021
You people never seize to amaze me with your mindblowing stupidity. You claim I hold it up as some golden standard, when I very specifically said it was not.
>While I wouldn't claim that the 80s were a goldmine of artistic integrity,
The 80s had a ton of problems as far as animation goes. It was cheap and framey. By the designs were usually pretty solid. A bit dated by modern standards, but still far more detailed and better drawn than most modern shows. My main complaint is that technology has progressed and there are far more skilled artists in the world today than there were 30 years ago. Despite this, western animation hasn't progressed.
What I would have liked to see is the stuff from the 80s evolved to a new level, with better animation and better drawings. But instead, it went backwards. The art styles became far worse and far more simplistic, while the animation barely improved. The only half decent looking modern cartoons with some modicum of detail are all anime ripoffs.
>>2471663
It's never "cease" to amaze me.
You need to get into a good art school to build connections so you must be able to draw well.
>>2466099
The simplest answer is: you need to be be good enough to get the idea across without your lack of technical ability getting in the way or detracting from the idea. Assuming your doing all the work yourself.
It's going to be subjective, I would think it'd depend on what sort of style the cartoon is. But like others have said, if you're just doing a bare bones outline of the idea, character designs and scripts then paying someone better than you to fix all of that then you don't need much more than the basic abilities to write and scribble out character designs.
A more pressing issue is your get rich quick mentality and penchant for putting in the least amount of effort. At least that's how I interpret your question. If you really thought you wanted to make a go of pitching ideas you'd be better served by working on your skill set and getting as good as you can. It'd more than likely help inform other aspects of your creative process and give you a better shot at creating something that'll catch someone's attention. You sound like someone who read a story about some indie animator making bank on their idea and you think you can just repeat the process if you learn to scribble down some drawings.
Why not just keep drawing and getting better? No need to put a limit on it. If you just keep making ideas and putting them out there, despite your current skill level, you'll get picked up if and when you put out something worthy enough. It's not like there's some magical measurement or moment that tells you when you're "good enough" to succeed that anyone here can give to you.
>>2471669
>literally has nothing else to say
Next time just keep your fucking mouth shut.
>>2471754
I was trying to help you so you didn't look like an absolute fucking retarded queer some time down the road, homo. I happened to catch that while scrolling by this Steven Universe thread that I otherwise didn't care to read. Kill yourself, fat tits.
[ - ]
>>2468747
This is why I always liked looking at Japanese genga
>>2471813
That's a layout, though.
>>2468882
The toy designers did a good job making toys out of the design on the left, thoguh
>>2473982
(different toy here)
how does it feel to know that an invader zim fujoshi weeaboo who cut her teeth on ed edd n eddy porn is a more influential artist than you will ever be?
>>2466099
>trying to get rich from making kids cartoons
>rich
>making a cartoon
You're not gonna make it.
>>2473998
I don't doubt her taste in entertainment.
>>2474192
See, the funny thing is that's not necessarily true. I went to high school with some asian chick who works (used to work? I dunno) as a character designer for Adventure Time. Apparently she's making like $100K.
Let that sink in.
100K for drawing colorful stick figures with butts...
>>2468770
He didn't say otherwise
>>2474867
Extremely unusual. The majority of the animators in the cartoon world won't make that kind of money. And even if they did make that amount one year, it's very inconsistent pay when you're a free-lance artist. One year it's 80K the next it's 10K. Ever listen to Sleepycabin podcast? Youtube animators and freelance artists get together and occasionally talk about the industry. From their perspective, and it was almost always unanimous, animation, cartooning, commission work does not pay well.
But, at any rate, 100K for character design.. She must have done more than that, like maybe BG design, storyboard layout artist, 100K for character design in a show like adventure time is really unlikely.
for people so passionate about art you sure love talking about making lots of money
