>be Canadian
>have a choice of being a freelance artist and getting paid absolute peanuts even at the pro level
>or the choice of sucking figurative black dick for decades to try and compete in the fuck awful studio industry here
Why is the art industry so shit? We deserve better.
>>2354301
Sounds like any other Job, OP. Might as well make yourself likeable and make your own product to sell.
>>2354315
I can go learn coding in 2 years and get a $40k job out the gate in under 10 interviews. And in 3-4 years after that I'd be earning $60-80k.
Art is just really crap over here.
>>2354301
>>be Canadian
hate to break it to you, but this isn't a phenomenon unique to Canada.
art is a garbage industry/career everywhere. i wish i had known and someone (other than old normies who i knew didn't know what they were talking about anyway) had told me instead of feeding me all these lies and the bullshit you saw on social media and ca.org
such a huge self destructive pipe dream. go get that cs degree while you still can guys.
here's the psychology behind it: chump a was told by chump b that he is really close, and that he just has to get good enough to start getting work. chump a believes this, after all his work is definitely pro level and he gets plenty of fb likes. so when the next-gen of wannabes start mistakenly assuming chump a IS a pro, they ask him all these questions about art as a career. chump is convinced he SHOULD be pro by now, and is flattered af. he feeds them the same bullshit chump b fed him. that's the moment he realizes 'oh lawd. i mistakenly took chump b for a pro! the same way these next-gen wannabes thought i am pro! oh god i bet chump b gets zero to shittier work as well, just like me. but since he knows is level is high enough he believes in the lie'.
that's when you realize it's all a big collective mass-delusion. nobody has the balls to say 'yo be careful man, i know my work makes it seem like i'm doing great but this is an absolute garbage career and i make 15k pa at best' out of vanity. and, well... delusion. they genuinely think they are SO close to making it.
>>2354390
If you can live alone or with roommate/gf/bf/bff without parent's help and not starving, the freelance job seems like a bliss compared to working a regular job. Have you worked at a regular job? The people are shit (both customers and coworkers), working hours are shit, leaving house is shit, job itself, no matter what it is, is shit. Honestly, drawing dicks is a million times better than actually sucking them.
Especially asshole coworkers, fuck them. I'll eat my tasteless unhealthy instant noodles than work with backstabbing bastards.
>>2354390
Cool opinion, anon.
Holy shit, look at this motherfucking texturing.
>>2354406
He is right though.
>>2354410
>>2354410
Pretty much, yeah. I think it depends on the tolerance and patience level of the artist.
I work as a game artist in asia and I can assure you it's pretty much the same as what he said. No overtime pay long hours yada yada.
I think it's pretty much the same as the other jobs where you have to work your ass off to succeed.
Also, another thing, regardless if you are internet famous, if you don't apply for a job nor you have the portfolio a specific studio you want to enter, Nothing will to a fruition.
And IF you really are an internet famous person, why not make your own IP and shill the shit of that to your followers?
>>2354301
>Is Canadian
>Have a 2D industry
>have more than one fucking studio
>There's actually a choice to not live freelance
I dont see what you're complaining about. Also.. you're not in art for the money.. right?
>>2354405
>drawing dicks is a million times better than actually sucking them.
good way to put it, thanks brah
Supply and demand strikes again! Sorry brahs, if the job sounds like a dream come true it probably has a lot of competition to achieve the higher tiers.
Art careers always have a huge cliff that the best of the best(or those with mass appeal) make a ton of money, and the rest make peanuts. Monoculture FTW.
That doesn't mean you can't love life making 19k a year living a simple life honing your craft- you just really have to love it, and do it for the mastery, not money or fame.
>>2354301
if you aren't making at least $50h USD doing freelance you aren't doing real work. I really wouldn't consider devianart commissions to be "pro freelance" work.
When applibot was doing contractor work I had them paying me $75h but I had to back out cus I just couldn't do any work from my shitty fucking clinical depression that comes down on me hard sometimes.
>>2354501
>When applibot was doing contractor work I had them paying me $75h
post your work fampai
>this is mine btw
>>2354501
what did that amount to on average? like what is the median total payment you got for all your applibot jobs?
>>2354507
I think it was around 1500 per piece. They paid all of their artist's differently. The longer you worked for them the more you would get paid.
So it was around 20 hours an image, with one image a week. I also had another freelance job then too but I ended up cancelling both since seriously... I don't wish depression on anyone. It's just one of those things that unless you have it you wouldn't understand. I still have it and will always have depression. It's ruined my life completely.
>>2354336
Most probably by the time you graduate those wages will be half of what they are.
Art is so cheap today because we're vastly over-represented in the job market. STEM is right on the road for the same threatment and then everyone will be telling you to study the next "secure" job that will be saturated as fuck 8 years after.
>>2354515
shit art is cheap. If you aren't a shit artist you will make good money.
>>2354513
Workout, explore your spirituality and philosophy of the world, meditate.
Don't take psych meds, modern science doesn't know near enough about the mind to be throwing chemicals around.
Stop feeling like you're a victim of depression; you can work yourself past it.
>>2354336
out of college I moved back home for about 7 months. I was able to finally get a concept art job and made $60k USD a year as a fulltime part time employee. After 6 months of that I was hired on full time and got 70k a year. This was working for EA.
Art jobs do pay well, at least in the US. If you are single it doesn't matter where you apply since moving is damn easy.
>>2354521
Jace, what the fuck are you doing right now?
>>2354519
youve uh, don't have clinical depression. It's pretty obvious.
If a had a dollar every time someone said "meditate bro, work out" I would have 1.5billion dollars.
I'm not going to discuss a cure on here. Let's just say most people don't know what the fuck they are talking about and are incredibly naive and ignorant.
>>2354524
I've wanted to kill myself before, refused to leave my house for anything but school for months at a time. Probably not to your level, but debilitating. I was terrified of talking to new people, terrified even of people I had known all my life.
Back then I thought I must have bi-polar disorder, or depression, or my Mom and Dad were mean and my older brother beat me up. I looked for any excuse, any reason, why I wasn't in control- why this wasn't my fault. That mindset never got me far.
Once I spent a day planning how I would commit suicide, and I realized this couldn't go on. I pushed myself to leave my comfort zone. I worked out. I meditated. I talked to people.
I'm not saying it's easy- frankly it might not be possible for you to move on. The brain ossifies over time, repeated actions and feelings become self perpetuating; if you've been this way for decades you might be stuck. If so, I'm sorry.
But don't think this was the way things had to be. Depression is a natural part of life, a beneficial adaptation that forces us to reflect on mistakes. The only reason yours went into free fall is because you live in a society that never told you you could do something about it.
>>2354528
Wow bro you basically said the pitch for my forum. IF you stay on ic and don't learn asian stuff you will become depressed and kill yourself.
http://ninja-art.freeforums.net/thread/29/art-ninja-die-failure
>>2354543
>http://ninja-art.freeforums.net/thread/29/art-ninja-die-failure
You still shillin your forum , Zen?
>>2354528
not all depression is exactly the same. Pretty much everyone gets depression at least once in their life. Short term situational =/= sever clinical depression.
>>2354547
At the moment. Gonna get a microphone soon and shill it making videos/livestreams. How do you like the new forum skin?
Btw guys if you have good advice you should post it on my forum. There's a lot of good nuggets of info on ic but it gets buried in all the shitposts pretty quickly.
>>2354543
I want to be a writer, I just art as a part of a Greek/Roman self improvement regiment. I don't want art enough to become suicidal; I might kill myself if I stay on lit though.
I'm down to write for free for a bit and eventually transition to small freelance fee's, and I'd love to write for you if you're interested and the materials interesting.
>>2354513
I've had clincal depression, tried to kill myself, spent half a year locked in with the looneys. Now my left arm is all sliced up and groce. Good thing is: During that time I consumed so much antidepressants that I believe it changed my brain physically and now my emotional baseline is much much flatter. I don't get depressed but I also don't feel much emotion either. Haven't loved a girl ever since. Been like 10 years. Don't know if it works for everyone but turning yourself into an emotionless zombie might be something worth looking into in your case.
>>2354551
I agree, but all severe depression begins as short term depression. It only becomes severe under certain circumstances, one of which is when you decide you're a helpless victim
>>2354518
you believe this because you have read it on here and on ca.org. written by people who also believe it to be true because they read and heard it.
>>2354578
that is not true at all. This is what I mean by ignorance and naive. "Hey Im going to give you advice based purely on my own experiences while knowing absolutely nothing about you or having only the most basic understanding of the science behind it."
It's a mental illness that can be genetic and present from birth, emerge through puberty, or come from an event in life. They are all completely different and treated in completely different ways. There is also treatment resistant depression. I have done more research on this shit than your average doctor because it's not exactly something I want to keep going on.
This is why its something most people don't mention. Because everyone has their own little solution. And then the judging. There's just so much you couldn't possibly know about the person with depression.
basically I say this for anyone reading. If someone you know has depression the last shit they want to hear is how you know the cure. Odds are, they already tried it. They know.
>>2354578
>It only becomes severe under certain circumstances, one of which is when you decide you're a helpless victim
Also being a judgemental dick doesn't help people at tall.
That's literally like saying someone with cerebral palsy can't walk because they decided not to.
>>2354579
I believe it because it's exactly what I have experienced. My friends that are good at art get payed well. My friends that are shit at art don't.
If you are good you'll find work.
Maybe you are just a shit artist.
>>2354301
>have a choice of being a freelance artist and getting paid absolute peanuts even at the pro level
Huh? Freelancers get paid more than in-house artists, you dumbass. Why do you think top artists like Rapoza, Ruanjia, Jaime, Mullins, Wes Burt etc work freelance? Because they can't find an in-house job?
>>2354390
Dude 15k pa is really fucking good. At least for me, I can live with that.
I have graphic design if I fail anyways
>>2354301
>Why is the art industry so shit? We deserve better.
You don't deserve shit, you have the ability to titillate the average plebs mind, blow his reasoning and flood his thoughts with interpretations of what ifs. Find a way to turn your talent into money by creating something.
>>2354336
>stem wages threatened
Yeah no, you mean engineering. Most students of which will drop out or break down because the job is so demanding. The beauty of stem is that it can't be filled with assholes because of the inherent IQ barrier.
>>2354390
I felt kinda betrayed when I found this out as well, but I don't regret getting into art because it's a fun hobby. It was so demoralizing when I was in the freelance rat race sending out 100s of emails and posting everywhere and getting beat out by people even though I was pricing myself around $3 an hour. I think there's a lot of creative stuff you can get into easily from illustration though. Personally I'm trying to learn how to code and stuff now. Obviously there's a lot of people at the top that make good money, but I think it's important for people just starting to know that beginner tier work like pic related isn't worth anything.
>>2354838
>implying stem jobs are demanding
You do realize your average stem major just gets a bachelor and goes out to punch shit in a calculator and do whatever their boss tells them to?
>>2354964
Try being doctor or a nurse.
>>2354301
>canada
haha fucking cuck. lmao @ur life desu.
>>2355032
point being STEM isn't that spectacular. it filters out the complete retards and people who can't into information, but its by no means difficult.
>>2354521
>as a fulltime part time employee
mhm.
>>2354619
anyone can 'find work'. it's making an even remotely respectable living that is not possible. there's plenty of work, it's just that it pays total shit.
>>2354886
Looks like your average cg painting, how is that a beginner? This guy clearly has not just yet began.
>>2354886
ugly brush strokes baka desu senpai
>>2354521
Link /w a picture of thread? Ty
>>2354390
Thats why you get into concept design and not concept art so studios will hire and keep you for your ideas instead of hired muscle they'd rather just outsource to China or studios like One Pixel Brush, you doofus.
>>2354301
Anyway, you people are so dissapointed because you're in the art for all the wrong reasons. This clearly isnt a profession to get riches and live comfortably. People with attitude like yours are the reason most of cg art is so vulgar, banal, petty and plain boring, hell, the reason our whole pop culture is garbage. No imagination, no heart, no passion, no strive, only lust for money, this attitude frankly disgusts me.
Mikhail Vrubel lived on water and bread, living in studio. Pavel Fedotov refused the offer to be a royal pet artists painting generals and living in luxury in favor of creating art that moved him and made him feel something.
Artists were majorly poor in all the ages, that's how things are. Better look at it as a spiritual journey, of a sort.
>>2355210
Fuck off. There is a supply and demand with art, just like with any other job. They NEED our art to get their games, movies, cartoons, tv shows done. The industry is there, it is just shit.
I hate scum like you who dictate that artists should always be poor and comfortable with that.
Architects get paid like piss compared to their responsibilities. Should they also be content with their situation? No, they rightly shouldn't. I bet you're a communist.
>>2355210
More speak on the subject by based Le Guin.
About literature industry, but relatable:
"Right now, we need writers who know the difference between production of a market commodity and the practice of an art. Developing written material to suit sales strategies in order to maximise corporate profit and advertising revenue is not the same thing as responsible book publishing or authorship."
"Books aren’t just commodities; the profit motive is often in conflict with the aims of art."
"We who live by writing and publishing want and should demand our fair share of the proceeds; but the name of our beautiful reward isn’t profit. Its name is freedom."
>>2354408
kinda like Berserk by miura
>>2355175
just photoshop and brush tool. I'm curious what your work looks like
>>2355180
if you think brush strokes are the biggest problem with that painting then you've got some learning to do
anyways I was just saying stuff I wish someone told me when I first started. I wouldn't take it seriously if I were you especially considering there's other factors involved like my low IQ and taste. Also my depression was much worse than others here. I had to cut my own hair and let my teeth go to shit because I couldn't go outside for years. I noticed when talking to pros that they had a thing about them that I don't have like a certain social grace and confidence. Seeing as how defense people got about my post I want to make sure it's clear that I'm saying >I< couldn't become a professional illustrator, and the level of work posted is worth $0 in the eye of an employer. I'm sure most of you can make it, but if you're untalented, anti-social and have a low IQ like myself don't put your hopes and dreams into it.
>>2355255
I don't say artists should be poor, you retard, I say what money shouldn't be their main goal and motivation, or else they'll just end up very miserable, it's about being joyous in what you do no matter ho low you get paid at the moment. It's sure nice to earn more moneym, to be more famous, I really wish I had. But those aren't that I began doing art for, and sure as hell aren't my means of being.
Or you might be a fan Tomas Kinkade, I mean, this guy's a really succesful artist in a sense. Even though his work is a tasteless kitsch.
>>2355255
>communist
Social-anarchist.
>>2354301
It's because art is one of the arts. In the arts, the bar to entry is mostly low. The amount of fun it is to produce is high. The result? A vast quantity of low quality art is produced. With the market so totally saturated at the low and mid levels of quality with content, the supply/demand here forces prices down. Due to the unique quality of art, the best work commands a huge demand premium. Therefore in all sectors of the arts the vast majority of the money moves into the upper half of the quality spectrum, and a disproportionate amount into the top percent. This is why the band that plays at a bar down the road is earning 100$ a night and selling one or two cd's, and the chart artists are multimillionaires.
The fundamental issue will never go away: you are doing work that does not have to be done. You are doing it because you want to, you have to accept what people will pay.
>>2355259
uh oh, forgot the link
http://parkerhiggins.net/2014/11/will-need-writers-can-remember-freedom-ursula-k-le-guin-national-book-awards/
>>2355262
That painting's yours I guess?
I think the problem with it is being generic, a weird rapoza-like lightsource (especially on head of that raccoon), and no feeling of environment, it just light - pitchblack - generic blue reflected light.
>>2354886
I'm just a hobbyist but that looks very much like professional work. Unless you're a one trick pony I don't see how anyone would reject the artist as having too low technical skill. Plus, if you've gotten that far, you can most likely keep climbing. Could you elaborate on how it is beginner tier work ?
>>2355307
Nevermind him, he's just bullshiting + obvious cognitive distortions.
>>2355274
>Social-anarchist.
thats a communist
>>2354615
No, it's like telling a spastic child that they can learn to calm down and control themselves with practice. Cerebral palsy =/= natural brain states like depression.
I'm not a believer in the "hugs and being nice fixes everything" school of thought; sometimes the most compassionate thing one can do is administer a harsh dose of reality.
>>2355262
I'm a complete hypoagent: the post
>>2355291
yes and like I said a big problem I have is that I'm on the low end of the IQ spectrum and got into this more due to the joy of learning how light interacts with objects and understanding values. I was just posting something that I recovered from nuking all my stuff a few months ago to give an example of the level of skill and making people just starting out aware that while this might of been entry level work pre 2010 the enviroment is very different now. I was bitter because I was going off of information of people making it in 2012 that were starting in 2007 or so. I'm probably 2-3 years of hardcore studying before I'm at the bare minimum for minimum wage work. And I want to reiterate this isn't a "don't get into it" post because I know someone who is intelligent, hardworking at has talent could probably become pro in a year or something though.
>>2355307
I remember andrew making a good post about why my work is still far from professional but you'd have to scour the archives for it. Employers also commented on why my work is shit but it was awhile ago when I was in the illustration rat race and my intelligence and memory is too low to recall everything. I'm just a hobbyist that sketches and doesn't upload stuff these days, so it's not something I have to worry about these days.
>>2355313
can only speak from experience. I've been posting here off and on since I started in 2013 so I know some people know I'm legit. again just posting stuff that I would want to hear when I started to be wary of going off old information and to work really hard. a big thing to remember is to never trust anything from someone who is selling any sort of art education material when it comes to jobs. never ever.
>>2355336
Dude, don't be so sad and miserable, and persevere.
>>2355336
You have a knack for visual effects, but I think you lack traditional academic approach, as taught in schools of Russia and Asia.
ITT: People who are shit complaining about not getting jobs.
>>2354886
I have never sent out a single fucking email for freelance work but I still get offers every day. They always email me first.
You need to learn to get an online portfolio that gets spread around. Even when I got hired at a studio both the ADs and the other concept artists working there already knew who I was.
>>2355139
fulltime parttime is when are hired on for 40 hours a week but only for 6 months. Theres legal reasoning behind it but I have no idea what it is.
>>2354552
No offence, I like your approach, etc, but the average skill presented by forum user is shit tier. i'd rather stay here and not have to bother with registering etc.
>>2355353
on the contrary I've been really happy since I quit the dream of being an illustrator. You should be happy there's one less guy in the running trying to get jobs
>>2355361
good advice. thank god I don't have to worry about stuff like that anymore though
>>2355377
yes this is a big problem. People at a beginner level like myself think they can get jobs, and I wanted to bring a dose of reality because these threads usually devolve into a bunch of assholes saying "don't get into illustration" and pros that are making good money. No real in between
>>2355381
assuming your the same guy from above your work is really good and you have a lot of talent so of course your going to get a lot of jobs. I was speaking about people who are just starting like me trying to get into entry level freelance. As another reminder I never said don't get into illustration and I never said there weren't a lot of jobs. There just isn't a lot of jobs for beginners like myself starting out, and I wanted to give a reference of work that isn't worth anything according to every tg company operating and low level private clients. This sort of work was something that could of gotten you in the door pre 2010 though judging by archives.
>>2355336
>I remember andrew making a good post about why my work is still far from professional but you'd have to scour the archives for it
what archives ? CA.org ? also, do you have more work, either current or old to post ? I honestly can't understand what's so bad about the work you posted, I don't see what more a 3D model designer would need to start working. Honestly I've never been that much into concept art so I don't personally care that much about the piece but I don't understand what standards it fails to reach
>>2354886
It's left fckn hand. cover that stick holding freakin hand with your fingers. and it suddenly gets +50 to appeal. not bad piece at all otherwise.
>>2354301
>>2354390
Hmm...when i read this i feel like people who have these problems are those ones who try to draw creative and "artistic paintings".
Because there are many art fields that can feed you. For example mobile games field. You can make good amount of money by drawing childhish scribbles for another "match 3" game.
If you feel like this is not a "true art" then you alwasy can draw it AND draw a "true art" while your client is busy/after you sent him works/when you are not busy.
Like that other anon said -
>drawing dicks is a million times better than actually sucking them.
>>2355268
>Or you might be a fan Tomas Kinkade, I mean, this guy's a really successful artist in a sense.
>Even though his work is a tasteless kitsch.
ever considered he enjoyed doing that stuff? aren't you a proponent of doing art for fun and spiritual fulfillment?
>>2355439
the issue is never just in one piece. you really would have to see the guys body of work to get an idea of why he was unsuccsessfull in getting work. i think that piece is solid. nothing out of this world, but solid. and i'm sure another 2-3 hours of rendering and maybe some education about how to achieve certain effects, he could be well on his way.
to being good, and getting jobs. not making any serious money tho, because that's just not possible with art. 15-20k is the limit. working 12 hour days for the rest of your life.
>>2355537
>12 hour days for the rest of your life.
ALONE
NO ONE TALKS BEHIND YOUR BACK OR TRIED TO MESS YOUR SHIT UP
IN THE COMFORT OF YOUR ROOM
WORK ON YOUR BED IF YOU WANT
TAKE BREAK WHEN YOU WANT
WATCH CARTOONS ON SECOND MONITOR IF YOU WANT
DUDE
I WILL GLADLY WORK FOR $12/H GIVEN THESE CONDITIONS
>>2355331
I had a longer post to this but eh. You're a fucking idiot that knows literally nothing about the subject and it's best for everyone if you just learned to shut the fuck whenever the subject comes up.
>>2354551
Unless you're manic-depressive all you have to do is take your meds, counter the side effects with dieting and exercise, and occupy yourself.
It's not like your brain actually wants you to kill yourself.
>>2355552
Add to that 2hour drives or forced relocation into wageslave neighborhoods filled with rude, stressed people and the criminals that pry on them every payday.
>>2354506
I'm just a bit better than this and a digital color effects whore who couldn't paint an oil or acrylic to save his life.
Last year I made $24k from college workshops, $6k from illustration and $30k from graphic design.
You don't need to be the peak of the mountain, there's a myriad plateaus filled with opportunities and you don't need to take only one path.
>>2355739
I suppose you've already made contacts through spamming e-mails right?
>>2354574
hi sorry can't use a writer at the moment but if you're into copy writing, which is sales, check out the pitches there for joining the forum and let me know if you think they work or not. It's a interesting subject copy writing you should check out NLP if you haven't heard of it.
>>2354543
>http://ninja-art.freeforums.net/thread/29/art-ninja-die-failure
damn dude. place is desolate. i think getting a forum populated is really really difficult in this day and age.
>>2355428
>shit tie
Yeah and let's see your art. Let me guess, you won't post, because yours is shitter and you're a pussy.
I don't care if people call my art shit tier, I'm no coward, I just keep doing what I want to do.
You won't find a free forum run by professionals. That's because there time is valuable. You'll only get forums run by nearly pro guys, like thearthorde, levelup etc.
You can post on my forum without registration, anonymously, just like here. Upload and post images anonymously too. But let's be frank registering takes less time than making one shit post.
I started a new thread "taxi cap concept artist confessions" where you can talk about your careers anonymously. You can do that here of course, but it's going to be buried in a week under shitposts.
http://ninja-art.freeforums.net/thread/63/taxi-cab-concept-artist-confessions
>>2355740
Not really, the college job came from the local paper and most of my /gd/ clients come from my past clients reccomending my work. Most of my illustration work has been private stuff like character portraits, tattoos and dA shit, my few corporate illustration jobs have been crap like app items/backgrounds and posters.
I said there a lot of plateaus in this "mountain" and it's true, you don't need to be the best, if you're entirely unemployed it's because you haven't reached the first plateau yet, because once you do you just keep on getting job offers. And if you're getting a million "shit" jobs but you can't find a better one, it's because you haven't reached the next plateau.
>>2355428
I didn't mention your level, but average across that board. you are not bad at all imho.
>>2355533
Nope, it's widely known he's a ruthless businessman and a hypocrite.
>>2355992
I'm the only one who posts there. I just haven't decided on my handle so the text at the bottom goes from "zen--ninja" "zen-concept art" and "ninja-art".
>>2355615
Good talk, I can tell you have a history in debate.
Enjoy telling yourself it's not your fault the rest of your life
>>2355872
>Shit tie
Fuck, I'm going to have to use that one some day.
Looking at your website, it's pretty shabby, but humble. It reminds me of old CA.
Like a shitty, beat up gym at the end of a block, I hope that at some point it is impregnated with he stench of thousands of frustrated artists.
>>2354838
>The beauty of stem is that it can't be filled with assholes because of the inherent IQ barrier.
are you for real? STEM is filled with asshats who think they're the shit because they cruised through school.
>>2357319
He doesn't even know IQ is used to measure the obedience, adaptability and sociability aspects of intelligence so I guess he thinks button pushers are the apex of human intellect and behavior.
>>2354838
>The beauty of stem is that it can't be filled with assholes because of the inherent IQ barrier.
This is probably the funniest, most insecure sentence I've read on /ic/
