It seems like Anthony Jones got a book funded from Kickstarter and his backers haven't received their books yet. The book itself is available for purchase on Amazon. This doesn't make sense. Thoughts?
read the comments on this page. People are very angry.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2131695070/heavens-hell-the-art-book/comments
>>2344797
That guy looks like a total faggot.
Whoever backed this guy deserves to get ripped off, his work looks like it sucks anyway lol "heavens hell" I absolutely doubt it.
Anyone who invests in a book of 'art' with that title deserves to get ripped off.
jej
>>2344806
lol fag
>>2344797
Thats what happens when you support nigger artists
>>2344838
>i do stream and still teach because its important
Kek
I think dan warren said it all already
>>2344840
Anthony Jonestein
>>2344818
>This has never happened in a Kickstarter run by whites.
Think again you racist twat.
>>2344916
This thing isn't about race. It's about being completely and utterly retarded. I knew the guy was a bit on the slow side just by the way he was talking.
>>2344916
You got b8
>>2344797
>trusting a black korean
every time
>>2344916
>implying white people can't be niggers
who's the racist now faggot?
thus why i will never so a kickstarter unless i'm 100% sure i can pull it off.
>>2344797
Another failed kickstarter nothing to see here.
Reminds me of Yogadventures
meanwhile
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1022149620/the-art-of-loish-a-look-behind-the-scenes
I'm excited for this
Niggers be niggers no matter what they do.
>>2345062
>loish
lol omg this thread had me crackin up.
>>2345062
doing this is super easy with painter
you guys should download corel painter today
[spoiler]fucking gullible faggots a book is not going to help you out you will eventually just copy it[/spoiler]
I was one of the backers. Art community was behind him and he used to stream a bunch. In the final streams leading up the the deadline he had one with a bunch of guests joining him on a big Skype call, guys like Dave and Dan and shit yknow, was pretty good vibes from everyone.
It was all about funding one of our own to do their own project yknow. Also in those last couple of streams people decided to start making groups on Facebook since everyone's folios and prefered blogs were on different sites. It started up some pretty big groups and arguably things like Level Up came about because of that initial move to a common platform.
That said it's been three years since this was funded, and most people haven't seen anything. All the backers have had has been the occasional kickstarter update of him saying thanks for the support and how he's working on stuff, but also constant excuses about his family or health or funds or something.
Pic related is the last update he made before the huge backlash of pissed off backers. This is 3 years after we funded the damn thing. He then made an apologetic post in the next couple of days but again everything was excuses. Saying things like he'll get all the refunds out as soon as he can, but needs to take out loans and shit so he's not on the street. Playing on people's feelings and sympathies when really through his laziness and greed, he got funded and then just went from one fund raising thing to the next, and doing streams and presumably mentorships and shit.
TL;DR - Project had good vibes and community rallied around it. Three years later everyone's pissed off at him because he didn't do shit and just got more money for different things. His reputation is now dead and rightfully so, and all these backers won't crowdfund anything again.
>>2345201
Did he do the artwork for his book after he started the kickstarter or what took him so long? Normally when artists do an artbook using kickstarter, they already have the art done, or at least the majority of it and it's just a matter of funding the printing and shipping.
>>2345201
> thats a nice photobash
He doesnt have shit in his office
>>2345062
blegh
>>2345026
>It's not me it's you.
>Another game racists like to play.
>>2345218
I'm pretty sure the artwork was mostly done, some of it was even done on the streams he had to promote the kickstarter. The project was funded in January 2013 and the books were expected to reach backers in July that year.
Looking at the updates, he made one in March '13 that he was on the home stretch, artwork all done, he was just formatting it into the book. In July '13 he said
>"I'm still working on the book mostly to get the story lore and stuff of that nature to make sense to me as much as possible."
He didn't start submitting images to the publishers until mid October, and then talked about how he now has a new job at Blizzard and a baby boy. He then made constant updates saying he was on the last touches and submitting to the publisher, but he didn't actually get everything done until January '15. And then said he was only actually done in March '15, and only got them from publisher in Sept.
He claims to have been sending out refunds and books for the past couple of weeks after the angry backlash, but I haven't seen or heard anything about people getting them. In the latest update he swore he'd have a video explaining everything done by FRIDAY. It's now Sunday, and it looks like he's just been making a bunch of gumroads instead.
Important to look at what went wrong with this kickstarter desu, because it's good to learn from it how to not ruin your project and your reputation.
>>2345244
>Important to look at what went wrong
don't be a lazy cuntjew
>>2345201
ayy good vibes people good vibes, give me money for the good vibes the book should be extra
>>2345152
Thanks for the post, Mr. Dunning Kruger
>>2345254
Don't expect you to understand since you're shitposting on /ic/ now, and the art community was completely different back then. Conceptart had their biggest scandal yet leading to the majority of people leaving and a while after it CGhub shut down. Left a bunch of people with no sense of community, not to mention the attention junkies having nowhere to get their hits.
Everyone started helping each other during and after the kickstarter. Tons of people moved to Facebook and made groups where even the absolute shit tier posts would still get useful pointers to good resources. And it felt like a community starting up again, kind of like what's starting up now with >>2343309 this, the daily draw site.
Like I said, don't expect you to understand since this is /ic/ and it's CURRENT YEAR, but still. The art world was a different landscape.
>>2345265
Oh get over yourself
People who require groups to get motivated to do art end up like the people funding his shitty book. You kids deserve to be robbed
>>2344797
Literally who.
>>2344916
When whitie does it, he's a Jew. In this case the guy was a nigger and acted like one.
>>2345297
>not knowing who jones is
>biggest meme master in /ic/
do you even draw?
>>2345308
>he isn't some cringey memelord
>that must mean he doesn't draw
>>2345295
>People who require groups to get motivated to do art end up like the people funding his shitty book. You kids deserve to be robbed
Well you are in /ic/ why don't you leave and see how you do on your own.
>>2345311
Implying hanging around /ic/ does anything except let people who can't draw give you pointers
>>2345295
>Don't expect you to understand since you're shitposting on /ic/
>>2345309
>not wanting to be part of us.
you're scum.
>>2345337
What you should be asking is what kind of idiot would fund his shitty book
>>2345469
Yeah that's why people are mad. He's had the books forever and not done anything with them, and his excuse of them taking longer than normal to make is also his fault for having the art done but not taking the time to format them and send them to the publishers.
He also gave out refunds to his friends who asked, but then ignored other requests for them completely.
>>2345387
>Don't expect you to understand since you're shitposting on /ic/
>>2345312
Haha exactly. I bet both of you can't draw though. But guys, stop making this place seem like a legit place to learn. It's not. Hiding your identity like a dungeon troll and secluding yourself from the actual art world is bad. If you're getting good (doubtful) nobody knows you. If you remain shit, no ones knows so you don't care. You don't push yourself as much as you would if you knew people were watching. You'd also watch those dirty little mouths of yours too. This place is the scum of the art world. But don't mind me, I'm just visiting.
>>2344797
see, kids. never trust a nigger
>>2345201
>needs to take out loans and shit so he's not on the street
fucking what. This is the moment you realize art is such an absolute garbage career that established professionals resort to scamming audiences to pay their fucking mortgage.
>>2345201
Those boxes have been photobashed there!
>>2345772
That's why I treat drawing just as a hobby. I don't understand those people that want to be at 16 or 19 illustrator, graphic designer etc.
>>2345772
No, he's just horrible at managing money. I find that a good chunk of professional artists are like manchildren or high functioning autists in many regards. Being a genius often comes with drawbacks like this (see physics professors). I'm not nearly as good as Anthony but I'm making a decent living through art even though I too have a mortgage to pay off (1k € each month).
>>2346298
I think a lot of people forget that to be a professional artist it's not just doing art, it's also being a businessperson
>>2346298
show your work fagt
>>2346303
Hard to find something of mine that's not under NDA or already posted online.
Here's something at least. I did a whole bunch of these for a 70s horror tcg, that got canned.
>>2346305
And you make money on that art? How do you promote yourself/find work?
>>2346308
I rarely do prop illustrations, I'm more of a creature and character guy.
I don't really promote myself online anymore aside from sending e-mails around. I get most of my work by staying in contact with a few studios and art directors. Sometimes I get recommended.
>>2346310
Sorry for asking, but it's quite interesting since I don't know anything about doing art as a profession since I have other job. I understand that now you have some established reputation/networking connections, but how did you start? Portfolio on a blog + accounts on some sites where artists gather?
>>2346314
I got my first contacts in the industry through CA.org, as silly as it sounds. I maintained a sketchbook and people got interested. Once you get a few gigs from reputable clients, things will get rolling. Being a good artist is one thing but being able to work with deadlines and briefings can be quite another. Art directors will look at your list of previous clients to judge if you can work in a professional environment, which is actually more important to them than the quality of your portfolio work. I know a few people, who are great artists but horrible professionals due to depression or similar issues.
>>2346328
I see, thanks. So generally be a sensible human being with good work ethic that meets deadlines and have proper skills and you can get a job like any other people do (since in any other job, be it engineering or corporate what is most important for people is actual work experience/knowing how to work a job)
>>2345240
I would just shrug it off, it's just usual chan stuff. White scammers are considered jews here.
so was it stolen yet? if so links?
>give nigger your money
>be surprised you got scammed
>>2344797
Where is the video update?
I want to link this thread to his facebook for the lulz
>>2344802
Anthony Jones is awesome for giving good tips relating to art. I don't know why people on here suddenly hate him now.
Unless if it's /ic/ being /ic/; currently trolling for the sake of trolling.
>>2346721
> I don't know why people on here suddenly hate him now.
Might have something to do with him ripping off his kickstarter backers, did you even read the thread or comments on Kickstarter? What kind of a dumb motherfucker are you anon
>>2346755
He is probably a nigger himself since they can't read.
>>2345201
https://soundcloud.com/the-collective-podcast/the-collective-ep-24-anthony
He talks about the book kickstarter for a bit here
anyone else completely put off by the entire idea of 'art community' at this point?
fuck facebook, fuck self promotion on social media, fuck all of that fake bullshit. fuck competing with ten million people for the same 8$/h jobs
>>2347013
I never understood the phrase "art community". Too broad for the large amount of mediums and people involved. Shame things like this drag everyone down in a way.
>>2345201
What's stopping him from sending? If he can't send then he obviously used the kickstarter money for something else instead of shipping.
>>2347037
He did. He used it for himself. He traveled to all these workshops and was buying lunch and drinks for the entire bar. He left his job at Blizzard because at the time, he had money in the bank. And he spent most of it. Now he realized shipping is gonna cost way more than his retarded brain thought. Now he can't afford to ship. Now he's in deep shit.
>>2347029
It's like the "gaming community". As if people have anything in common with each other just because they happen to play games. And apparently are responsible for each others' actions or whatever. I've never heard of a "movie watcher community". So arbitrary.
"The black community" is similarly bizarre but somewhat understandable. A common phenomena among disadvantaged groups. "Gay community".
Hear people babble about a so called "heavy metal community" sometimes. Way to take the balls out of metal you needy hippy dippy lovey dovey fucks!
There must be some sort of fear of being a lone individual that is lost on my autistic reclusive ass.
>>2344797
>still no video
>>2346305
the horn illustration is freaking unrea. excellent work. where can i see more of your stuff? i think i've heard 'dot' before but i can't put the entire name together.
>>2347662
>obvious samefag is obvious
>>2347243
how does he have the money to refund people if he doesn't have money for shipping though?
>>2347709
he most likely doesn't, but as long as only a small fraction of people request refunds he can still say he's refunded anyone that's asked
>Daily tutorials for this week
>Another video tutorial available! Thanks again guys, will have another one of these tomorrow. I plan to have a video out everyday til Friday. Then the following week will be 3 videos, then the following will be 1 video. So that way I can stop spamming you guys. But for now, enjoy, or be annoyed by another week full of tutorials.
>>2345041
just don't do a kickstarter until you're done, then use the money from the kickstarter to actually do what you say you're going to
>>2346721
Did you read the thread? His reputation is in a worse state than his finances, and it's all his fault for being a greedy, lazy, piece of shit who took money from his community and then ignored them.
>>2347003
Nice, don't think I've listened to that one. Does he talk about it in his typical I've learned so much from this experience kind of way, or does he actually say that things have gone wrong and he's fucked up?
>>2347639
Yup. I commented on that update but he's not even responding to those anymore.
>>2347776
Some kickstarters go ok. I helped a little with a sculptor wanting to make a resin cast of a sweet sculpt, and got my rewards pronto (signed print), and the guy showed the results of the project in good updates too. Mind you I also supported that Dragon Fin Soup one by Randis because I used to talk with him a bit back on CA and it was cool to see him doing his own project. When the rewards finally came out recently we had to choose if we wanted the game on PC or PS4. I was about to choose PS4 because it's the kind of game a friend would love, but she looked it up on their marketplace and turns out that it was the free game of the month or whatever.
So it was worthless essentially. It was also supported by Sony, so why even need a kickstarter, especially when literally everyone on PS4 got the game for free when the backers had paid for it.
Anthony Jones gives good tips but fucking hell is he annoying.. I can't stand his pedophile voice and his general attitude. The same goes for Ross Tran, the most annoying fucker out there.. Don't get me wrong these guys are genius when it come to art, Anthony learned to become professional in one year only I think? But I just can't stand their attitude, fucking pricks attention whores. It's my personnal opinion so feel free to disagree.
>>2346298
That's such absolute bullshit though. No way you are paying 1k€ a month ontop of living expenses on an artists salary.
>>2348343
not that anon, but on what data do you base this claim?
Still no video or response? This guy is complete garbage. What a total piece of shit. I didn't back his book but this is totally fucked up. What an asshole.
>>2348196
What the fuck is a pedophile voice? Comments like these remind me why I don't come to this angry 16 year old infested shithole.
>>2348567
you should be refunding people's money Anthony, instead wasting your time in ic.
>>2348567
sorry but you have a pedo voice... deal with it
>>2348343
meh... I can see it working out considering he probably doesn't have to pay rent (the mortgage implies a house)
>>2344797
Holy shit man
And i was about to take on his mentorship..
So basically he tried to pull a Noah Bradley and failed.
>>2348196
when someone else says anything he immediately dismisses it. he knows he can pretty much do whatever he wants because he isn't white.
>>2350287
aspiring artist here. may I inquire as to how much you make in a given month off of prints?
I've considered just trying to make fine art and selling prints of it only, but I don't have any idea how feasible that might be.
>>2350882
0$
prints is not something you ever really sell anything off unless you are sakimichan or your entire business plan revolves around making commercial decorative work for people to hang on their wall.
>>2350897
Can confirm. You'll make pocket change at best if you don't have a big following.
>>2350832
Niggers can't be jews
>>2351783
You obviously haven't heard of African Jews.
still no video
>>2344797
>this thread
>>2353249
Still no video?
>>2357373
nothing. i wonder if people can sue for this.
>>2347747
>mfw Anthony's pumping tutorial after tutorial in a desperate attempt to make some quick cash
Delicious tears.
>>2359046
Just watched his"paint like a sculptor" one and its pretty awful really
If you edit out all the nonsense and nose noises you end up with a 3 min video.
I thought he would have fixed that fucking nose with all the money but nope
hey folks, felt like i wanted to add to this ballbags campaign of money-grabbing.
I just spotted he's selling a tutorial pack on steam (never seen art tutorials on steam before) for 15 bucks.
"This product is not eligible for refund" lol oh the irony
>>2360751
Link?
He had so much going for him..
It was all to fund his teaching pursuits clearly, so he could make even more money. And it's a load of bs honestly.
If any of you buy his tutorials...fucking stop. What are they like 30 or 40 minutes for 5 bucks? He pumps so many out he's obviously going over the same shit.
Its totally taking advantage of beginners and the inexperienced. But they are enabling it.
I used to really like him, I funded his book (asked for a refund, haven't gotten one yet) I hate artists taking advantage of artists.
You can do all this shit on your own, tutorials are pure cancer. Demos or lectures are a different story. (Dave tuts, brad rig new etc)
>>2344797
>mfw you are literally paying the refund yourself if you buy his tuts
>>2345265
what was the conceptart.org scandal? i cant find anything by searching around
>>2361716
look up Jason Manley's TAD (the art department). That's pretty much when CA.org started going to shit with a massive exodus of professioal artists. Still hasn't recovered yet.
>>2361738
Oh man, I remember the meltdown on this one.
Also , I remember when Brad Rigney started dissing manley over unpaid royalties over his video. That shit was devastating to Manley and the intructors who were involved.
>>2361768
Yeah that's the one. Brad didn't diss him so much as come out in the open on DA and say how disappointed he was that someone he considered a friend was just a money grabbing cunt who doesn't pay anyone for their work.
>>2361889
I think Manley said that he wasn't the perpetrator of that one but was one of the TAD's faculty at the time, I remember him disclosing subpoena to somemembers of the faculty for moving and embezzling funds into a supposed ot be new undisclosed new school that they're planning. Forgot the names of the instructors he sued.
>>2361899
>>2361899
i remember that 'dreamscape' bullshit he was trying to force down everyones throat while people were just yelling at him to just let ca.org be what it is.
i remember browsing it in 2006 being absolutely mindblown by the stuff on there and the fact that you could do this for a living. fast forward to 2015: turns out you actually can't do it for a living unless you are happy living in a 6m2 dumpster in the shittiest ghetto eating moldy bread. although it's not so bad considering you're forced to sit infront of the computer working 18 hours a day anyway, so it's not like you are missing out on all the room of a nice apartment. lol.
>hold me
>>2347974
His reputation with us, maybe, but how may art directors are gonna give a fuck about his reputation if he makes good work?
>>2361916
To be fair, most artists I worked with really work that long. From comic book artists to animator and game artists.
I think It's really easy to find work or two if you have a pretty decent portfolio. The only problem I had working professionally is the fucking embargo on NDA's . If you worked for a long time for a commercial project and haven't updated your shit in years, you're bound to have 1 to 3 months of down time to update your portfolio once the workload dried up.
>>2361916
Most skilled professionals make a very good living though. It's just that this industry is full with underqualified, self-taught NEETS who think they are somehow entitled to a job because they've read a bunch of anatomy books. Imagine if hundreds of thousands of highschool graduates and dropouts would decide to become dentists, without going to university, without having any qualifications or experience. All their knowledge comes from pirating some online books on the subject and playing around with a digital skull or something. These hundreds of thousands of utterly underqualified people would send out application after application and they'd all be turned down instantly. Suddenly, you have all these people whining online how it's impossible to find work as a dentist, when in reality, qualified dentists make bank and have no trouble whatsoever finding work.
That's the art industry in a nutshell right now. QUALIFIED, skilled artists are more sought after than ever and make a ton of money. Underqualified NEETS are not wanted. They act like they are a part of a dying, harsh industry, when in reality, they are just useless parasites trying to attach themselves to a very healthy, thriving industry that simply doesn't want them.
>>2361954
While I generally agree with the sentiment, there are alot of notable self taught artists that also landed a job in the industry with what they can offer.
I think it's more of how present yourself and how you work around people professionally.
The thing I hated with some self taught artists I worked with is how fucking high and mighty they feel that they know their shit and it's hard to give a good critique on their piece without their ego standing in the way.
>>2361954
>Most skilled professionals make a very good living though
'Faking it till you make it, and telling fb chumps how good of a living they can make if they buy your gumroad' is what that's called.
>>2361960
>i have decided that the reality in my head is reality and i will continue to doggedly believe in it no matter what
Okay, anon. Just shut the fuck up and keep to yourself, at least.
>>2361960
Gee I dunno, have you tried applying for jobs and research what they want for a potential artist?
And the people who're doing gumroad vids are selling those as a product, anon. They most likely have a job that they cling on for security and do that on the side. It's not that hard.
>>2361960
Only like 1% of all professional artists make gumroad tutorials though and amongst those, only a handful make lots of them, treating it like a serious business.
Again, QUALIFIED and SKILLED artists are incredibly sought after. That's why you hear hardly anything of people like Iain McCaig, Dan Cooper, Paul Felix, Nicolas Weis, Bill Perkins, Jeff Turley, Mathias Verhasselt, Scott Watanabe, Laurel Austin, Cory Loftis, Robh Ruppel etc. They just deliver quality work, constantly get brought onto new projects, get paid handsomely and maybe update their blog twice a year if that.
>>2362013
>mfw all of those you named either have a twitter, tumblr or a facebook page they update regulary if not daily.
Not exactly sure what your point is
>>2362040
Don't be daft, anon. Surely you get that some professional artists don't post WIPs and sketches on a daily basis and just do shit. And no, sharing funny videos and pics is just one of the basic functions of social media.
>>2362051
https://twitter.com/ianmcque
last post 24h ago.
So funny videos , much pics ,very basic
>>2362056
Have you seriously dug the lists of artists you know that posts their art everyday?
I said above that SOME professional artists.
Then again, this is /ic/ . You're right , anon. no one ever earns money doing art.
>>2362056
facebook / mverhasselt
>scanning some pages from last year's sketchbook... need to get back to it this year
>January 19
>>2362059
Im not even claiming they aren't making money,,,I'm just calling you on your bullshit because you're talking out of your ass
Still no videos of the negro on his knees apologizing to people he scammed?
>>2360794
http://store.steampowered.com/search/?developer=Robotpencil
Not him but there are a bunch of these tutorials
>>2362511
who is this semen demon
>>2363136
Chrissy Costanza
Well if he's not going to make a video, give out refunds, or actually reply to our emails we gotta do something. I'm surprised nobody has thought of doing a change.org thing just to wake him up. Or raiding his streams/facebook. Or why not try to get his steam videos removed?
>>2361672
What is the difference between art tutorials vs demo/lectures? Just curious
>>2364755
I think of tutorials as like teaching a trick. It's often really only something useful to people that have there fundamentals down. They're marketed towards beginners though.
Demo's and lectures go over so much more. the full process, thoughts behind things (which is the most god damn important, not the tricks, not everyone can "be a teacher" and explain things properly though) etc.
Not gonna lie it makes me angry seeing how many tutorials people like AJ have. There's no doubting they all have a lot of overlapping info too.
It's probably because I remember being a beginner still, how hard that time is trying to get a grip of everything. It's that time when you ask what brushes people use as if they are gonna help make you any better. and thats why they know no better then to buy tutorials.
>>2350287
I fucking love that alien cowboy picture man!
>>2350287
Hey if you don't mind me asking how long have you been drawing and painting?
>>2362040
What you originally wrote was: 'Faking it till you make it, and telling fb chumps how good of a living they can make if they buy your gumroad' is what that's called."
My point is, there are hundreds of artists who don't do that. Now your counter to that is "but they post on social media too!!"
Are you genuinely mentally challenged? Also, Iain McQue is not Iain McCaig.
>>2364755
Tutorials are more focused, demos lectures govern much more.
>>2364459
Go ahead link this thread on his facebook
>>2367836
I think someone already did not 100% sure
He's obviously going through a rough patch, chalk off your 50$ as a loss and move on with your sorry lifes.
The big lesson here is that if somebody as skilled, well known and established as AJ is having financial troubles (ontop of him being knee-deep in the teaching side of things), we are all fucked career wise. Or rather those of us stupid enough to seek a career in the field.
>>2367873
>Anthony pls
Maybe if you stop making niggababies you wouldn't be in this mess
>>2367873
Never heard of this fucker until now, and $50 is a big deal to some of us poor fags.
>>2367873
>The big lesson here is that if you can be a retard and still kinda be popular in this industry and people will give you money, until you majorly fuck up of course like in this case
>>2344797
guys don't give this guy money, I mean. don't pay for his mentorships and don't pay for his classes. please. this guy is a fucking jew who doesn't know how to handle money I would respect him a little more if he came clean and said what the fuck he did with all the money.
If he has cancer or if his child had cancer I would understand. but for god's sake Anthony give a fucking explanation to us. you are pure shit that takes advantage of people and artists
Literally the first time I heard of any of this, but I'll tell you right now that whats going on is 'too big too fast' syndrome.
He got a lot of money like a kid of christmas, made a lot of promises that seemed easy at the time, and then lived large long enough to blow it all.
Now he's not only obligated to shill out refunds or send some books he probably cant afford to ship all of (and by that I mean he's fucked on that front) and now has no job or income spike like a kickstarter.
He won the lottery, quit his job, and then didn't invest a penny.
I'd like to think that the fags in here would at least avoid shit like this for no other reason than the career suicide, if not for ethical reasons.
>>2367873
AJ is well known and established? All I know is that he worked for Blizzard for some time. I've never actually seen any of his work he did for them but I take his word for it. That said, Blizzard probably didn't value him too much considering I've never heard any of the other Blizzard artists whine about money problems. Guess they all must be suffering in silence, without trying to scam other people to pay their bills.
>>2344797
Why is this Jew back on the first page?
I like his artwork, I dont really give a fuck what two or three bitter hobbyists on /ic/ think of him.
>>2369654
>>2367873
>a rough patch
For three years.
>your 50$
Try $50,000+.
>>2369654
I don't like his art. I like him, I like his lectures. And I'm with you.
>>2369654
anthony, you should be giving people back their money instead of lurking ic. fuck's sake.
