Why cant i draw like him..
It looks simple, i mean, its anime shit after all, so why is it so difficult to capture this style.
>>2309798
Shitty animu still requires fundamentals.
>>2309798
>It looks simple, i mean, its anime shit after all, so why is it so difficult to capture this style.
Moron.
In order to draw GOOD LOOKING anime and manga art you have to be able to draw realistically first.
Those characters look so appealing because the artist knows exactly what details to ommit to make it look appealing as fuck.
>>2309806
>In order to draw GOOD LOOKING anime and manga art you have to be able to draw realistically first.
Why do you think so?
>>2309798
>>2309826
if you are doing it digitally.
learn how photoshop works so that you can use the bush settings, options and filters to make the shading and linework you want. A traditional artist use a lot of different tools so you shouldn't be relying only on your tablet when doing digital.
If that doesn't help you then you just haven't practiced enough.
>>2309798
Simple =/= easy
It takes a lot of skill to know what to leave out and to say the most possible with the least amount of information. Economy is one of the hardest things to achieve in art in my opinion.
>>2309806
you do realize that manga was invented for people that can't draw realistically? manga is literally a simple form of drawing, to give everyone the possibility to draw.
Guys like Masamune and Otomo have as good an understanding of how to draw as any concept artist, they just only use ink.
>>2309826
>Seriously, if you are all so fucking good at realistic drawing, go ahead and imitate that style, shits difficult.
Why are you this defensive? Neither of those posts claimed to be good at anything.
Good art is often deceptively simple, intentionally naive and all sorts of things that make ignorant people go "I could do that, that's easy." when in reality it's anything but easy.
>>2309826
Okay, so show us your realistic figures drawn from imagination? Chances are they aren't good enough.
>>2309840
how to economy?
>>2309846
It usually can only come about through experience and a consistent effort to slow down and put thought behind every mark. People like Sargent or Jaime or Mullins who look like they slap down these painterly brushstrokes quickly actually work very slowly and take long pauses between each stroke.
>>2309838
The artist in the OP uses ink pens, then finishes in photoshop apparently. Characters etc are drawn traditionally, so I guess thats why its difficult to replicate the kind of line weight or variation in digital.
>>2309844
I always find it strange how a board of artists can't understand this.
There's a reason there's such a huge difference between murata and your average weeb drawing on deviantart.
Simple shit like Animu and cartoons aren't easier, it might be less time consuming to get it correct, but it doesn't make it less difficult.
Not disagreeing with you or anything just adding on.
>>2309853
That style of inking is not difficult to emulate in photoshop. I'm not saying it is easy, but if you are a decent digital inker that is a breeze.
>>2309853
He could produce the same result with photoshop alone. But of course he'll use the method he's familiar with.
The biggest problem would be the smooth line work but that can be done by learning about the brush settings.
Go check this out for some basic info:
http://www.ctrlpaint.com/library/
Drawing good looking manga is literally harder than drawing good looking realistic art, since you have to learn what kind of abstraction creates the desired results.
>>2309841
I dont even know if you are plain mongoloid or meming, but manga style is just aesthetically pleasing abstraction of complicated anatomical shapes and forms.
Even the shading in most mangas should be a dead giveaway that the facial anatomy and the volumes are still there. Shadows dont fall into faces randomly.
That is hard to grasp for people who still think and draw in symbols though.
Most manga artists are probably also capeable of drawing perfectly realistic portraits.
>>2309874
>Most manga artists are capable of perfectly realistic portraits
lets not get carried away now. I'm a big supported of animu and animu arts. but the majority of manga artists are not great artists nor should they be. Manga as a whole is a form of visual storytelling, the story behind it is usually more important than the visuals. The big names and such are typically good artists, but there's many published manga who have severely lacking artists because their goal isn't to provide beautiful pictures but to tell as story.
>>2309798
which artist is it?
>>2309877
Is the disclaimer "shit artists exist and are shit" really necessary?
>>2309874
These sketches by Yoh Yoshinari help illustrate the point.
>>2309881
Well you claimed that "Most manga artists are probably also capeable of drawing perfectly realistic portraits"
I was just correcting you. Rather than claiming that most mangaka are great artists falsely it would have been better to say "good artists are good" because its not that most mangaka are good artists, its just the really good mangaka artists are usually good artists in other forms of art as well.
>>2309862
>good
that is subjective. Many weebo faggots love anime images with clean lines with pure color that have a symbolic cute face and for some reason think that is the pinnacle of art. You don't need much anatomy knowledge to mimic that.
>>2309877
>lets not get carried away now.
It's the truth you fucking moron.
Here's the problem of all you losers at /ic/, you think that people who chose to draw simplified art for stylistic reasons are beneath your spergy loomis autism, when they probably can rek you in every single artistic aspect of the craft.
Just how most disney animators back in the day used to be accomplished draftsmen before animating rubbery little mouses.
Go get a reality check you sperg.
>>2309874
i said it was invented for it. people made more out of it in the past centuries. however, it was purely an invention for people that couldn't draw realistic (in the first place), so drawing became avaiable for everyone. i certainly know that it is more now, but the concept stays the same.
>>2309883
fuck, i wish i could draw like that. damn.
That type of shading seems very different than the kind you see taught in western tutorials like vilppu etc, western artists seem to focus on using the pencil as a brush to define form, but japanese artists somehow incorporate cell shading into realistic drawing by outright lining in the shadows and shit. Looks a lot better in my opinion but i have no clue how to do it right.
>>2309891
>i said it was invented for it. people made more out of it in the past centuries. however, it was purely an invention for people that couldn't draw realistic (in the first place), so drawing became avaiable for everyone. i certainly know that it is more now, but the concept stays the same.
No you mongoloid dicksucker.
Manga literally comes from cartoon art. It was not "invented" for people who are "bad at art". It's CARTOONS you moron.
All cartoons are simplified.
Japan just took special inspiration from max fleischer cartoons as opposed to franco belgian comics for example.
People like you need to shut their fucking mouth before yapping around.
If bait then 10/10 made me reply.
>>2309891
>i said it was invented for it. people made more out of it in the past centuries.
Spot the retard blasting awful opinions express from his ass.
>>2309888
>ALL MANGAKA ARE GREAT ARTISTS OMG HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS!!!@ R!#O!@#!@ AUTISTIC WEEB HATER!
yeah calm down kid. I like anime art as much as the next guy, but maybe take a moment to look past the best drawn manga and analyze things for a second. I've read more manga than you probably ever will, and if you take a few seconds to look at the art you'd realize its usually not that good. People like Murata are the exception not the rule. Most mangaka are slightly above average at best.
>>2309897
>that buttblasted allcaps quote where you furiously mashed keys in an awful stawman
>tells someone else to calm down
nice
>>2309899
>thinks anyone will take your post seriously when you start off with ad hominems then continue it in every sentence
>thinking anyone will actually bother to retype any of it
ITT:
>Op wants serious discussion on stylization
>devolves into tumblr tier shitflinging between weebs and anti-weebs
>>2309897
Show your work.
>>2309897
Nah you probably still think in symbols.
>>2309910
The author of Vagabond, now, that's a real artist, both as writer and "designer" (idk the word, english isn't my momma language)
>>2309895
Try calling Chinese or Korean cartoons for Manga (Japanese cartoons) in /a/ and see a thread collapse in anger.
>>2309924
But anon, we're in /ic/ talking about stylistic similarities, not /a/ talking about actual definitions.
>>2309893
I think you are mostly just considering loomis and American super hero comics when you say "western". I can remember having read a lot of beautifully drawn European scifi comics but I can't find and images from them.
>>2309798
As far as mangaka go, this art looks pretty simple, and I don't just mean how it's simplified, I mean it's not the most complex or dynamic work out there, at least from this one page. OP, just getting your basic anatomy down and a lot of drawing mileage should put you well within this level of proficiency. I don't know where you are now but I'd suggest you aim a bit higher. Not that I'm detracting from this, just that I think you're deceiving yourself with the minimalist look this has, and that you should aim for something more complicated so that you understand how to approach this look better.
>>2309798
The only thing that's always bother me with manga art is the way they draw the shins. I understand why they do it, but it always looks so extreme to me.
>>2309897
I'm behind this guy, I've read more manga than all of you combined ever will, and the vast majority, while they can draw people, there are 100 Fukudahda for every Fatalpulse, and 10 Fatalpulsesf or every Inoue Kiyoshirou.
>>2309940
The joke was that there are no real difference. Sure, some current popular artists styles are dominating but art style isn't related to national borders and the Japanese artist mostly just adapted a lot of existing styles as well as contributing.
>>2309798
You're really fucked up op
>>2309798
what manga is this
>>2309964
Maybe your problem is that you read shit manga?
Theres no single mangka other than the attack on titan dude who really sucks at art from the manga I read.
>>2309974
Just because you read comics with good art in them doesn't mean comics with bad art in them stop existing. You can't make a blanket statement like "most manga artists can draw this well", especially If you're going to go to the level of calling people morons and faggots for disagreeing, based on the fact that you're choosing to ignore the artists who can't draw that well. That's like if I set 6 apples and 4 oranges on a table and say "what fruit is there more of" and you say "oranges, because apples aren't important to me". It doesn't matter if you don't like apples, there are factually more apples than oranges, that doesn't change based on who's counting.
>>2309979
I fapped for years to this kind of thing, but at some point I started to found it simply disgsting. when an artist I like starts going down on that lane is pretty depressing, because I know I can't watch anymore his stuff with the same eyes.
>>2309979
thanks I just skimmed through the first 15 pages hooooooly shit
>>2309988
Given the kinds of tumblr shitstains that inhabit this board theres a reason why people dont want to give sauce. they'd just complain.
>>2309984
Well, this guy's whole schtick is taking it to realistic extremes, and he is taken his rounds of fetishes.
I really appreciate his skill and seriousness to his craft. While the actions themselves are overboard, there are always clear boundaries set as if this stuff is okay. It's an interesting dichotomy.
It's a shame this kind of work is looked done on just because of it's content.
>>2309996
He's free to use his talent with other subjects. But the question is also if it is not because of his subject that some may hold his drawing skills in higher regard than they otherwise would?
>>2309798
>It looks simple
Yeah. It does. Deceptively simple. But just because something LOOKS simple doesn't mean it's easy.
>>2309826
What, you thought learning the fundies was enough? Sorry anon, stylization is it's own separate skill that you also have to work on.
>>2310092
i dont see many books or tutorials on how to practice stylization.
>>2310108
That's because it's something that really can't be taught by anyone but yourself.
>>2310108
Follow Sycra, as bad as his style is, its a good representation of creating a style completely from scratch imo.
I mean there are other ways, but its usually just mashing up styles you like and practicing them while adding and detracting what you like and don't like. There's not really a guide except do things until you like it. People can't tell you what to like or how to do it, just give advice on the things to build it up.
>>2310108
There isn't much uniformity, besides books on like "how to draw comic book style" or "how to draw manga" and shit.
The idea is just to find what appeals to you and try to emulate the appealing parts. So much of it is down to taste that a book probably wouldn't help you anyway.
I tried copying the style using the picture OP posted.
>>2310205
You copied the design but not the style.
>>2310228
If there were more references I think I'd do a better job
>>2310205
eyes are impressively close the the original, good job.
I can tell you didnt take very long with it / didnt try so i wont actually bother critiquing it.
curious to see if other people on /ic/ can mimic the style.
>>2310231
It's not about that. Your face is more symbolic cute while his is based on a foundation of constructing anatomy. There are a lot more subtle details in his lines that are not just random or happy accidents.
>>2310243
>foundation of constructing anatomy
Where can you actually see that though?
>>2310243
>>2310246
heres the full image, guys.
Why dont you do a redline or something to illustrate your points.
>>2310252
Yes please, I'd love to know what anon means by symboliccute and foundation of constructing anatomy
I'm actually quite curious.
>>2310246
When I looked at your image in the profile the first thing I spotted was that her nose bulged out near the eyes. That might look cute but... But that's not really it. I guess his just feels more tight, as if he's deviating from a generic design. But of course, if you really wanted to compare then you would need to ink yours and clean it up.
>>2310264
I believe he means that the girl's body is stylized but its obvious that there is realistic hints of bone structure.
Like curves of muscle, and the usual bumps and things which werent included in your drawing, that stuff makes a world of difference.
I know you were probably just being fast, but your drawing misses a lot of those features.
>>2310267
I see what you mean, anon. But then again, those were very quick sketches...I just wanted to see if managing to copy the style using only OP's picture as reference could be possible. And I took the most noticeable traits about the girl, which are the eyes, the nostrils, the big ears, the huge forehead and the sharp straight lines that countour her face.
>>2310277
I see, I see.
It would be better like this?
>>2309798
I've looked up this artist before. I quite like his style, but goddamn he's a sick fuck. He's got every wretched fetish in the book.
>>2310282
That's fine to want to try but a style is hard to spot when you keep it sketchy. Especially a style like in the OP. But you asked.
To build a little on what >>2310277
wrote but which I neglected to bring up because of how sketchy your were: It's really a matter of arch-types vs unique designs. Now unlike many in here I have only looked up one of his works but I bet that all if characters are easily recognizable with a lot of unique facial features.
>>2310294
>that all if characters
woah, typo
>that all of his characters...
>>2310294
I looked up the guy and holy shit...
anyways, now that I have clearer reference I'll try again.
Holy shit...you're not supossed to do that to lolis.
>>2310310
Theyre drawings, dont be a pussy.
>>2310313
Well, aren't you a raging faggot, op.
>>2310282
I'd do a redline of your drawing but im nowhere near my tablet right now.
>>2310319
that's unfortunate :(
on the top of your head though, what are the main elements you'd fix?
>finally an interesting discussion on what it means to apply fundamentals to anime
>had to be all about lolicon shit
This fucking board.
>>2310322
You need to get your head out of your ass and judge the material based on its technical merits rather than the subject matter.
>being a giant prude about what people draw
fuck off to tumblr.
>>2310327
Not that guy, but you're being a gigantic faggot. Drawing the line at guro, mutilation and scat has nothing to do with being a prude, you sick fuck.
simplification that is appealing and complex (not complicated) is actually a very hard skill to develop and can be seen in the best manga artists. The complex comes from the understanding of the forms and the shadows while the simplification is the elimination of excess detail and omitting unnecessary rendering so that the form is not only appealing from a design standpoint but also interesting and somewhat understandable as a form.
>>2310327
You're the one who needs to dig your head out of your crack. I didn't even say anything about the other. I said the one time people are seriously discussing something I would otherwise be interested in, instead of shitflinging about how animu sucks, it has to be surrounding something I find abhorrent and I'm allowed to say that I think that sucks. And you don't have to reply.
>>2310334
Being a bitch and whining about what other people choose to draw is idiotic, let them do what they want and dont throw immature fits whenever someone draws offensive shit. I don't find the material appealing, but im not whining about it. objectively speaking; hes a good artist.
A person's greatest freedom is the ability to express what their imagination, if you want to live in a world where you have the freedom to do so, you should take the bad with the good and be a little more open minded.
>>2310344
>about the other
Was supposed to say *about the art
>>2310340
This is a good way to put it.
His line weight indicates shadow well enough, forms of the characters lack over detailing, but they have a nice realism.
Too bad its so hard to find more art by that guy.
>>2310345
The only one throwing a childish tantrum here is you. People have simply pointed out that they don't like this shit, and you go absolutely insane, as if people personally insulted you, when you could simply ignore those posts or react to them like an adult.
You'd have to be mindnumbingly ignorant and self-absorbed if you think no one is going to comment on an artist who draws lolis shitting themselves or being mutilated.
>>2310282
What about now?
>>2310362
Thats a lot better, actually.
Shape of the head is a lot more like the artist's style, the legs are slender with a lot of curves and you seemed to have cleaned it up a lot more than before.
hair in the bottom pic flows a lot better as well.
nice work.
His style seems to focus on really skinny girls, so knowing where the bone protrudes on the body is important in this case and I think you did a pretty good job of correcting your past mistakes.
Instead of just using straight lines or blunt curves it looks like you put in a little more effort to show more realistic curvature which instantly makes this drawing more visually appealing than your previous one.
>>2310373
Well, I did notice his style put lots of emphasis in the way he drew curves for limbs. He's quite an amazing artist, I gotta say. And even if his stuff isn't of my liking (too hardcore!) it was...an in interesting read to say the least.
Anyways, thank you for the critique! I feel I learned new things today.
>>2310362
With those lines established, you'd could have spared a few more minutes to ink it instead of leaving it at chicken scratching.
Can we shift this analysis to another manga artist? There are more than a few who are really good but have a simple looking surface style, someone who's perhaps more accessible? Pic related but other suggestions would be great, I'd like to be introduced to some really good mangaka I haven't seen yet.
>>2310379
It's nothing but practice, anon. And doing clean linework takes me way too much...
maybe next time.
>>2310381
that artist is mostly realistic drawing, technical knowledge of vehicles etc. not really anything terrible interesting, in his case, if you wanted to mimic his style, you'd just have to practice a shit ton drawing realistically and only mildy deviate from that. To be honest OP's image is more interesting because it deviates farther from conventional realistic drawing.
>>2310382
you got a blog or something, m8?
>>2310386
That's why I asked for suggestions, I couldn't think of anyone off the top of my head.
>>2310381
Is it just me or is his face out of perspective from his head.
>>2310388
I'm very grateful for your interest, but I don't post my art anywhere.
Well how about this guy? He seems to have a very dynamic style yet remaining somewhat realistic.
>>2310395
the way he draws hands and clothing is really something else.
>>2310395
Inoue is just amazing...he and Shiwasu are there as my hentai inspirations.
>>2310398
these sketches were lifted from his twitter, maybe it will be of some help in analyzing his style/process.
>>2310401
That's very helpful. Thank you very much!
>>2310407
>he inks on paper then compose and edits on the computer to finish before printing
Where'd you get this info? Anything you know would be appreciated.
>>2310403
More of his sketches.
>>2310413
Thank you again! please, keep posting this kind of stuff.
>>2310427
he seems to draw out panels individually, clean them up and puts them together on the computer. Honestly sounds a lot easier than actually drawing multiple scenes on the same page like a lot of manga artists tend to do.
>>2310401
Damn, looks like he presses really hard on the paper. I was always told not to do that..
>>2310445
You've got to follow your heart and see what works better for you.
>>2310445
those were probably done very fast, i notice that there are few unbroken lines in his gestures, theyre very flow-y.
these are beautifully inked.
>
>>2310495
He's a fucking beast
>>2310497
the dynamism is just insanely good, this guy really can convey movement perfectly.
>>2310498
>>2310470
that is the worst possible way to play with someone's tits
>>2310502
she doesnt look like shes enjoying it.
the guy that does that in the manga is kind of a douche so it fits his character.
>>2310498
It's back to what was talked about earlier. He just understands anatomy well. Stuff like how a limb twist when it bends, how the muscles wrap around the bones and which are tense during whatever movement. That is then combined with a good flow and spacial understanding. And it is still just basic stuff.
So even if it is simple and clean it is far from easy. We aren't born with an innate understanding of most of those things. It comes from a lot of studies and if you don't do it for your enjoyment then it's going to be a lot of hard work.
>>2310529
not who you're replying to, but i wish season was my friend, i really respect him as an artist.
>>2309798
Any idea where to find anything else by him?
sketches? illustrations? anything? the guy is a ghost. all i can find is his pixiv.
>>2310538
Really? He has a bunch of loli content on sadpanda.
>>2310602
I meant artwork besides his manga.
>>2310355
>The only one throwing a childish tantrum here is you
How ironic, haha.
>>2309798
Have you actually studied his style?
If you literally just study his figures you will eventually understand them completely.
Are you guys mentally handicapped? Can't you fucking learn to save the :orig file instead of the downsized version of the images? This is really irritating my autism.
>>2309826
If possible, are you willing to post your work on these realistic figures? Drawing simplistic is actually quiet difficult, and in order to understand simplicity, you'd need to know how it works in real life. Remember, you're learning stuff like anatomy and perspective to make your characters believable.
>"how to draw comic book style" or "how to draw manga" and shit
On that subject matter, how to draw the marvel way is a good book, but it actually doesn't really go over stylize. Mainly, it just explains how they go over perspective and explain even further about realistic anatomy.
I will say, there are videos out there to give insight as to how to make the transition from realistic to cartoon. "Fundamental of Design" from CGMA explains this well, and gives you info on the in-between of realistic and cartoon, but doesn't go all the way, since, as stated here, that's up the the artists in what they fancy in.
>>2310395
i just want to say this guy is my art hero. seeing his work makes me vex in jealousy; like why havent i been drawing in the past 10 hours.. but i lose my way everytime: motivation is too fickle
>>2310937
Put some work in it you nerd
Then one day you too can be vexing newbs
>>2310993
it's something like a snapping motion, or electricity.
it basically means her leg is snapping straight because of muscle reflex.
>>2310730
is that so? post your studies of it then?
I don't know, maybe i'm just garbage, but ive studies his figures a lot and still cant replicate it.
>>2310733
the original file is in the thread.
>>2311062
>is that so? post your studies of it then?
Why do you keep saying this? Do you want us to go "Haha you got us, studying actually doesn't work at all, drawing is just magic voodoo bullshit you either have or you don't"
There is no trick. You study and you draw and draw and draw.
Everyone has to study, being told you need to study is not a slight against you. I think the problem might be that the idea of putting actual hard work in is just daunting to you.
>>2311101
well if taking the time to study it works, then why dont you show us?
Everyone in this thread boasts about how easy it is to just study it and then emulate it, but only one person in this thread has actually tried doing it themselves.
>>2309798
>It looks simple, i mean, its anime shit after all,
I don't see any difficult stylistic choices here. the guy is a competent draftsman and draws straight forward sudo-realistic figures with stylized eyes. Your problem isn't that you can't capture his style but that you are flat out a worse artist period.
>>2311104
No one said it was easy. It's a simple task, but tasks take time and effort and thought.
It's like if you say you want muscles, and people tell you to lift weights. Then you start arguing for people to show their bodies to you and start accusing them that they are lying if they don't look like Schwarzenegger. To gain muscle you need to lift weights, it's that simple. But it still takes a lot of work and time to before results are visible.
>>2311106
>sudo
did you actually just spell it like that
>>2311108
If his post didn't give you the indication he's retarded that should have.
>>2311113
It's the truth you fucking retard. There is no crazy stylization going on here that is particularly difficult to capture. The artist in question doesn't have a unique, heavily exaggerated shape design like say Bruce Timm, Mignola, Chris Sanders, Glen Keane etc, which would require extensive studying to understand. He draws slightly simplified, but still mostly realistic figures with typical stylized anime eyes. The reason why you can't draw like him isn't because you can't capture his style, it's because you can't draw as good as he can and that's all there is to it.
>>2311121
Whether that's the problem or not the solution is still the same. What's even the point of saying this?
>>2311104
You sure are projecting a lot in order to make those excuses for yourself.
>>2310742
did you draw that? do you have a site or dumblr? pixiv?
>>2311104
I would have tried but I don't want to draw the subject matter.
Still, it's obvious you're baiting. There's nothing so unreasonable about saying get your fundamentals down and you could draw like this. It's literally learn to draw and then you can draw. It definitely does not merit a "post ur werk".
>>2311104
I'll emulate your mother you coont
>>2309979
>but this is taking it a bit far.
What'd he do?
>>2311407
his latest H-manga is guro.
>>2310993
Muscle spasms makes the most sense.
>>2309798
Kenshirou has a medical understanding of anatomy and confidence using ink.
>>2309883
>>2309893
Yoh Yoshinari is a god
>japanese artists somehow incorporate cell shading into realistic drawing by outright lining in the shadows and shit
That's exactly where it comes from: cel shading in anime. Study keyframe color traces and apply those principles to life drawing.
>>2309798
Who is a good manga artist that draws pretty female hands? I mean with both good anatomy and stylization to make them have that feminine soft quality. A bit of a fetish of mine...
>>2312870
>Kenshirou has a medical understanding of anatomy
Let's not go overboard, Shinkawa and Otomo do though.
>>2312914
Hiroaki Samura does nice nymph hands.
Is there some sort of cultural reason Japanese people can draw fucked up shit with their name attached and still make a living without any repercussions?
>>2312914
I don't think I've ever made a list with "hand festish appeasing mangaka", but if I did, I would put >>2312943 at the top of the list.
Some others worth checking out:
Hamada Yoshikazu
Irie Aki
Sugito Akira
Kaoru Mori
It's hard thinking of mangaka that relish in their hand drawing on par with Hiroaki.
>>2312971
I'm sure you can find western examples of people drawing fucked up shit too. Someone like Odd Nerdrum comes to mind, he literally paints people taking shits and his self portraits have massive boners and he paints trannies and stuff. Jenny Saville also does some sort of shocking type images like that. Both are ridiculously rich and famous.
>>2312971
Loads of psuedonyms, there is a market, and who really fucking cares.
I do remember some mangaka got upset when a bill was being passed about loli.
>>2312971
You see my friend, in japanese people see creative expression of the imagination as HARMLESS, as it does not directly harm anyone. And having your feelings harmed by viewing the artwork does not technically count as harm.
You could say japan is far more mature than any other part of the world because of this fantastic use of basic logic which most of the world seems to lack.
>>2312981
>who really fucking cares
There's probably some disappointed asian parents around who are ashamed their son draws loli guro shit for a living.
>>2312988
Probably, but who the fuck cares about that either?
Someone out there has found a way to do what they love and make money with it, good for them.
>>2312992
go back to pol you delusional fuck. unlike a lot of people in this thread crying about OP I like the shit japs make. I was looking for a legitimate cultural reason why they're able to get away with it.
>>2313001
>I was looking for a legitimate cultural reason
Heres your legitimate cultural reason;
Shinto.
Japan's first real religion was Shinto, a multi-deitied nature worshiping religion, very much like old pagan religions of western countries.
Most religions in the western world (the big ones anyway) are heavily moral focused, while nature worshiping religions didnt really give a shit about forcing moral or societal principals for living onto other people.
When Buddhism was introduced to japan, Instead of completely accept it, japan incorporated it, which created japanese zen buddism and its various schools of thought. Early Japanese buddism, because it was also practiced in tandem with shinto, was lax on morals as well, honor killings, etc were even practiced by samurai who still considered themselves to be devout buddist, despite this going against conventional Buddhist moral principals. Buddism in early japan was seen as a sort of secondary philosophical teaching which was loosely practiced along side shinto.
Governments, people, etc instead of looking to a higher power to govern their own morals, they looked within themselves, since zen buddism was popular introspection and philosophy was big deal, along side with bushido this created a perfect storm of lax morals, but logical thought that still kept people's radical behavior in check, bushi was the logical side, buddism was the empathic side, and shinto was the respect for your base desires, these created a perfect storm which created the foundation of japanese morality today.
Even though bushido is rarely still practiced in japan today, culturally the opinions are still there and whether it be in court or at home unbiased logical thinking outweighs blind moral rhetoric.
Despite Christianity making its way to japan, as well as Catholicism, their moral outlook didnt change japanese life much.
Shinto is one of the last animist/nature worshiping religions that are still widely practiced in the modern age.
>>2312971
You can in a lot of places, Japan in particular just doesn't give any shits.
>>2312671
An artist with a killer continuous line game, and a fan of the op artist.
>>2313144
Link? Can't find him at all, too common a name.
>>2313146
http://fdseason.tumblr.com/
>>2313029
>whether it be in court or at home unbiased logical thinking outweighs badass moral rhetoric.
"Police Hunt Man for Calling Schoolgirl “Cute”
>https://www.sankakucomplex.com/2012/01/19/police-hunt-man-for-calling-schoolgirl-cute/
and there are others like
"Police Hunt Man for Asking Schoolgirl Way to McDonald’s"
"Osaka police are hunting a man for walking on the same street as a schoolgirl, whilst wearing a mask."
"Police Hunt Man For Asking Schoolgirl Way To Station"
"Saying “Good Morning” to Schoolgirls a Crime"
>>2313203
Im talking about in regards to things like art or media.
They obviously still have moral standards regarding real crime, like any country they are over paranoid about that sort of thing and take it seriously.
But they know the difference between drawings of offensives things and offensive acts.
>>2310386
>To be honest OP's image is more interesting
is this a joke
>>2313029
i thought it was way simpler than that?
i thought current japanese culture (say post-war to now, and probably before then, but i just mean in general) was very much about "you mind your business, i mind mine". and yes, this does totally probably play into the history of shintoism as you put it.
but i feel like you forget about how there is notable opposition to the depiction of minors in sexual situations in japan (Tokyo at least), as evidenced by the attempt to revise the Tokyo Metropolitan's ordinance regarding the healthy development of youth's with the "nonexistent youth" bill. ultimately it was struck down after a strong reaction from the japanese creative industry, not necessarily because they all thought it was perfectly acceptable to draw porn depicting underage children, but because it was worded so vaguely that it could be used to easily restrict almost anything sexual at all in japanese media iirc
>>2313464
I never aid offensive art was never opposed, theres two sides to every coin.
But the history, and philosophy of the nation created that culture of minding your own business, or thinking of things logically instead of reactionary.
That bill wouldnt have gotten turned down if japan was like any other western country which supports anything if anyone mentioned saving the 'chilluns.'
Thankfully japan is one of the few nations left that sees art/drawings for what they are, fiction. And whether it be offensive, that doesnt mean it shouldnt be allowed to exist or make a profit.
This is an art board, so lets stay on the topic of analyzing styles, instead of shitting up the thread with politics and philosophy.
>>2309888
hey what's that page from
>>2310637
fantastic artist
>>2309897
I kind of agree. Like for example some of the past bests like Tezuka. He was good, but not amazing like the examples in this thread.
>>2313971
Sun Ken Rock, a manga by Boichi.
>>2312971
>with their names attached
no, we could even say that japanese are the most afraid of being recognized, most of them went by some alias for a long time until they got enough income to stop giving a fuck. You can see a lot of manga artists (even some videogame artists) doing this.
>>2309897
this. i also agree.
i've probably read more manga than everyone in the thread combined, and manga really isn't just about art.
from the art side, being consistent is usually enough.
i'm always a bit annoyed when people argue about good art/bad art when it comes to manga. it really isn't about artwork. of course, some modicum of technique and consistency is obviously needed, but other things matter more.
i mean you can show me boichi as much as you want, but that won't make him a particulary great mangaka as a whole.
>>2310362
I know i'm late but i thought i'd give you a red line on your figs, and i'm not claiming to be a decent artist or an expert so dont take what I say seriously.
Jikken seems to draw girls incredibly skinny, lots of people are used to drawing girls with healthy weights so in order to capture the style you should focus on skinny, more defined body land marks like ribs, hips etc.
His anatomy isnt always proportional, his style features girls with rather large foreheads, legs and arms are a little long as well, but it seems to work for him.
If i had to take a guess, he probably is so studied in anatomy he probably doesnt do much procedural construction judging from how his lines flow and how proportions seem to change, so he probably does more contour drawing than actual construction.
his strokes are also short, I cant properly convey this in my drawing, but if you look closely at his line work in the manga you'd notice that many lines are broken.
I also included my own feeble attempt at his style.
>>2309826
Like another anon said, chances are you aren't good nuf. Perhaps if you were you wouldn't be so emotional about it delivering your small artist peen for show.
>>2309883
Damn son wherd you find this?
Yoh is mah nigga
>>2310381
If you read enough Otomo you'll see a few instances of him kinda messing up his own style. Maybe it's because they work crammed too much and at a point they will make an uninspired composition.
>>2310395
Inoue yeah. Linework is tactfull, can display angles and physical expressions like a whiz.
>>2309883
fug! is there more?
>>2310937
How can you be jealous of something you never had? You are merely envious :^)
>>2312971
How can one be so naive
How can three consecutive posts start with 'How can ...' ?
>>2316054
This looks good. However, t seems to me you're afraid of drawing reckless lines. Like, I see your drawings and they seem dull, something you'd expect to see out of a character sheet. However, when I look at Inoue's >>2310637 or Kenshirou's >>2312870 drawings, I notice they're full of curves that don't always make sense, but they look incredibly good. I think you might be lacking that.
>>2316154
Please explain what you mean by reckless lines and character sheet?
Lines that dont make sense or bad proportions are often bad, arent they?
I'd love to know how to improve.
>>2316172
By reckless lines I mean...confident lines that play with anatomy and angles that aren't always right, but are appealing to see. Like the ones you can see in little witch academia?
And by resembling a character sheet I mean drawings that are still or don't show a big deal of movement.
>Lines that dont make sense or bad proportions are often bad, arent they?
It all depends on what style you're going after. Like, the style is so amazing itself that incorrect anatomy won't matter, let me try to exemplify.
Pic related is a bad example of this. The artist is clearly trying to accentuate extremely long and inaccurate proportions and it just doesn't work
>>2310092
That's a fucking stupid ass post. What does that retard honestly suggest you do, practice drawing stylized cubes in perspective? Practice rendering a fucking stylized sphere?
Construction and technical drawing is totally non stylistic and personal to the artist. Would you call your gesture drawing stylized? Of course not. It's just the way you yourself choose to feel it out. To say that you shouldn't improve technically before thinking about style is the dumbest fucking shit.
>>2316189
>confident lines that play with anatomy and angles that aren't always right
How does one train to do this?
>>2316189
>I mean drawings that are still or don't show a big deal of movement.
to be fair I wasnt trying to convey movement, but I understand what you mean.
>>2316189
>Like, the style is so amazing itself that incorrect anatomy won't matter,
But isnt that only the case for artists whom have a deep understanding of anatomy already?
>The artist is clearly trying to accentuate extremely long and inaccurate proportions and it just doesn't work
Was I doing that?
I agree though, I'm unhappy with what I currently draw, it does not have decent movement, or confidence.
>>2316189
But look at this case, even if it isn't 100% anatomically correct, it has such a great style and understanding of how limbs can bend and you can tell the artists knows his shit so well you simply don't care about accuracy anymore. I think, in order to achieve this, you have to leave your comfort zone which I can notice is very attached to what you've been taught are correct proportions, but that makes your drawings look...inert. Because you're paying too much attention to what you know is good. For example, look at your redline. The shoulders are straight and not bend upwards. The stomach looks flat. The leg you redline lost the curves that are common in Kenshirou's works. Your style gives a very western inspired vibe, it's easy to tell by the way you draw noses as well.
So my advice for you anon is...you already know how anatomy works, now bend that shit, it doesn't matter if it's impossible, just keep doing it until you get something so great you stopped giving a fuck about wheter is correct or not. I'll give other examples
innacuracy is all over the place, but it doesn't matter because it's a good drawing. It has the recklessness I'm talking about.
You dip
There's so much lineart and panel composition conventions that you absorb if you grow up reading manga. There probably exists a book out there that teaches you where to fade out lines, when to introduce full-body drawings, and etc. It also might not exist, as it would teach everyone how to draw a decent manga.
So yeah. If you were to redline these drawings I'm sure there would be many flaws, but they become irrelevant because they actually add to the style. The drawing is full of movement and emotion, even if it's just a simple sketch. No matter how you look at them, they're not boring.
>>2312977
Nerdrum isn't the best example because, although it was for 100% banal reasons (tax evasion), he did go to prison.
Just lovely
>>2316195
Thank you, this is really helpful.
I guess since ive studied to much on proportion and anatomy I still am a little unsure how to push the boundaries.
Does most of this happen in the gesture stage, or is there no construction at all?
These examples may look disproportionate, but thats just dynamics and competent understanding of foreshortening, right?
>>2316225
>but thats just dynamics and competent understanding of foreshortening, right?
I'm not every artist I posted to give you an honest answer, anon. But I can tell they have a good understanding of how the body works.
Anyways, I'd advice you look up 0033, I believe he's famous here?
and Toshi, pic related.
Be more lively, anon! good luck!
>>2316229
Thank you. I'll try my best!
>>2316195
>Your style gives a very western inspired vibe
this is actually kind of upsetting to hear.
>>2316240
Oh...I'm sorry, but that's how I see it. It kinda reminds me of the style used in the unteralterbach game.
But don't worry, your anatomy is quite nice and so are your lines. You've got what it takes to switch from western to eastern and viceversa. Just try to work in your noses! they're too wide for animu lolis.
>>2316251
>It kinda reminds me of the style used in the unteralterbach game.
I've heard several other people say that about my artwork, I never thought so but I guess its got to be true.
Thanks for the compliments though!
>>2316259
>Thanks for the compliments though!
Is always good to point out what you're doing good, anon.
>>2316154
god that line work makes me so envious.
Does vilppu teach how to manage your overflowing envy?
>>2309798
You can draw like him, as in using a pen and draw on a paper. But drawing like him stylistically, there is a lot of design consideration and aesthetic choices made through years of trial and error, and numerous inspirations. As in, the shapes that he used, the gesture and manners of the characters, proportion that he uses for his style, how he controls his lines when drawing straight lines vs curved lines, how he frames them, etc.
Throughout those years, he learns how to stylize and abstract it in a way that is unique to him.
Lots of beginners mistake drawing something simple like this (as technical skill goes) is about pure mechanical skill when in fact a lot of it is about your own personal aesthetic acquired through thousands of pencil milage at play.
>>2309893
One overlooked key to drawing or painting something in realism is cast shadows. If your placement of cast shadows are good, your drawing will probably look pretty real, just like in Yoh's book. Cast shadows reinforces the space the subject is occupying in terms of that the subject is interacting with the light that is in the drawing, and the way the shadows curves on it
s figure conforms that it occupies space.
Try doing a drawing exercise where you define the cast shadows carefully. You will get the same desired effect.
>>2316290
That image is amazing and its also really confusing to me and i dont know why.
>>2316290
Who made dis, more of same?
>>2316375
Someone posted these, but I didn't save them all. Maybe you could hope for somebody that identifies the artist, or reverse searching these.
>>2316380
>>2316381
>>2316375
Well, reverse searching got me these. Maybe it's not that person, but should help you get started.
https://twitter.com/namajake/media
>>2316386
beat me to it
>>2316277
something you should learn about kiyoshirou is that the thing that makes him stand out is the way he uses black fill and his general eye for contrast.
he is of course technically good too.
>>2315994
Does he intentionally draw women like blow up dolls?
This is a serious question
Another example
>>2316560
>these saggy tits
Ew
>>2316604
at least they are natural, right?
>>2316606
yes
>>2316604
Disgusting in reality, absolutely perfect in 2D.
Mebae is amazing.
>>2316612
I like the colors. Reminds me of pixel art fighter sprites
>>2316608
Tits that small on a young girl shouldn't sag like that if she has moderately good genes. They look like pancake tits because the artist drawed those long straight lines where they originate at the middle of the chest. Those lines aren't seen so much in firm tits but mostly in older women with deflated breasts.
>>2316710
>They look like pancake tits because the artist drawed those long straight lines where they originate at the middle of the chest.
That's the point anon's been trying to make. It isn't completely anatomically correct, but it looks amazing regardless.
Artists that do this are confident and rather brave.
>>2316714
Well, it IS anatomically correct for pancake tits. I don't think most guys would find the boobies in that drawing to be attractive looking but each to their own. I like the way japanese smut artists draw a hint of chubbiness on girls though, emphasizing that feminine softness yet making them look full and firm at the same time. Makes my penis happy. There is a tendency in western artists to make female bodies a bit too streamlined imo. So overall, yeah I agree that folds and such increases fapability, maybe not with that particular example, but in general.
>>2316710
>I have never done life drawing with actual real naked women of various ages and chests so I'm talking out of my ballsack
>>2316875
Two years at an atelier, one year at another art school, countless life drawing classes.
150+ laycount, in the ages 15-50. A few dozen of those in the agegroup 15-20. Certified manwhore who has seen a lot of titties. Oh, and I get paid to drawn them too, full time freelance illustrator.
Likely one of the older members of this board. I'd say my opinion is pretty informed but you're free to disagree
>>2316885
P-post art?
>>2316922
Not that I'm some big shot artist, but I'd rather not link my name to statements about my sexual conquests.
>>2316964
>implying your art and name are instantly connected
Post something that isn't signed or online elsewhere
>>2316966
I'll post my art when I feel like doing so thank you. If you disagree what I said about breasts you're most welcome to come up with some persuasive arguments why I am wrong
>>2316885
Damn Tehmeh, you're a slut.
we talking about good manga artists here?
>>2316973
I didn't even read the thread, I just was pointing out the flaw in your reasoning
What does one have to do to become as good as Inoue Kiyoshirou?
What do you have to study?
What do you have to practice most?
Many years of grinding are required?
If i recall correctly hes something like 40 years old, so hes probably had many many years of grinding under his belt.
>>2317960
Don't limit yourself to manga artists bro
>>2317960
he probably drew and studied a lot of cars and landscapes to get that good at HUMAN FIGURE DRAWING
>>2317960
look up the syllabus & courses of a manga college.
the general truth is that there's gonna be a lot of focus on grinding fundamentals. and drawing.
a lot.
other important areas of study would be composition, shape design, simplifying forms & motion.
personally i'd suggest putting more of a focus on getting good at art/ creating good images rather than trying to be a carbon copy of the manga style. the best mangakas are the ones who don't try to draw things that look like manga.
watch joy in motion
My favorite manga artist is probably Araki. His art is super fun to look at since you can tell he put in time to learning from stuff like old masters.
>>2312971
Yes, it's called absence of censorship my american friend :^)
