I'd like to start doing value studies. Can I start digitally or would it be better to begin traditionally? If so, what are some tools I need?
>>2286121
As I am, knowing less than next to nothing about value studies (specifically of people), this is all I can do.
In regards to digital, what is a good program to use? Because SAI is... bad, so far. I am bad at this, but I'd like to improve. Do I need to study light and shadow, still lives, portraiture, or anything like that?
>>2286121
Charcoal.
Copy the bottom of https://courses.byui.edu/art110_new/art110/week06/images/values.jpg 5-10x a day until you can confidently/easily reproduce it from memory. Then move to http://www.artistsnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/5-landscape-value-scale.jpg 5-10x a day. Seriously, copy it 5-10x EVERY DAY and get it exact.
So now you can reproduce values, now you need to observe them. Copy Bargue plates. Block in value shapes (5 levels) one at a time working your way from dark to light. Get them exact, then fill in the gradation.
>>2286151
Oh, and use soft and medium compressed charcoal on white strathmore or canson sketch paper, not printer paper (it doesn't havd enough tooth)
>>2286151
or just buy 5 markers copics :^)
>>2286151
>>2286152
Thank you so much for the concrete advice. I have peel & sketch charcoal pencils and carb othello black, and black conte, and even this http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00314DBWG.
However all of them are extremely hard and sharp, even the soft ones. Is there anything I can do to make them not dig into the paper, or are these just bad quality? I've tried sandpaper, but it doesn't work.
There's no problem doing value studies digitally, it's naturally easy as fuck to easily get a good value range that way.
Just try not to color pick, see if you can eyeball it.
id say start off with simple compostions. do a SIMPLE but accurate drawing and try at first using only 3 values ( 2 in the light 1 in the shadow). once you are more comfortable or want to do longer studies use 5 values ( 3 in the light 2 in the dark) also keep in mind light value does not always mean white and dark value black. try to accurately interperet how the artist you are studying places their values. also try to simply and accurately interperet how they gradate light to dark. in other words keep an eye on the edges( hard soft lost) think about where the artist puts the points of high and low contrast in their picture. think about how they assign values to break up or connect foreground midground and background( also keep in mind there might not always be a foreground midground backround, just accept that if it is the case in a piece you are studying, dont try to make shit up. for example some landscape paintings only have a midground background so just be aware). studys are not about copying or making cute little drawings, but about interpereting ACCURATELY in order to gain information. dont start making your own decisions and start making drastic changes in a master study, but ask yourself if you might like it more if they did something different. perhaps make a second drawing implementing your own changes! finally and probably most importantly be patient.(this is applies to everything in art) a small 4x 6 inch study might take you 5 minutes. it might take you 30. as long as you are LEARNING, it does not matter. finally finally, find pieces that are widely accepted as really good to learn from the best (golden age illustrators, frazetta, old masters, schmid, ect) impossible to say this in a way that sounds unbiased, but those artists and their peers are, for the most part, just flat out better and more worthwhile to study than youre favorite tumblr concept artist or whatever. anyways, hope this helped, none of it is fact of course but just suggestions
also do pencil fuck tablets, nigga
>>2286167
Apparently not. I think the only thing I've done right s not color pick. I'm stubborn that way. "On your on merits" and etc.
>>2286177
>>2286179
Thank you. Would pens be okay too?
>>2286238
Looks blurry and the values are muddy. Get a brush that paints that leaves opaque strokes or stop using opacity.
>>2286238
Pens are great, however building value with pens is very different, done through hatching and more difficult to fix mistakes. But it is an excellent skill to learn, teaches you to think before you make marks. You might want to study good pen artists like frazetta, kim jung ji, william merit chase, charles dana gibson, franklin booth, ect. I would encourage you to use graphite and charcoal as well though, the more skills you build, the better. But at the same time don't overwhelm yourself. And to be more clear, I think traditional media is overall better for learning because it teaches you more patience and to be more deliberate in what you are doing. There is no color picking or things like that, and while digital is great and has its own advantages, a lot of beginners can start relying on photoshop to 'fix' their stuff and use it to take shortcuts. and if their is anything you do NOT want to do in educating yourself, it is take shortcuts! digital is better used once you are more disciplined, or if you just cannot afford traditional materials. Also, about your work, Looks like a solid start with a good drawing, but i suggest you try using hard, opaque strokes. It may feel and look weird at first, but remember to take your time, and as your confidence grows I think you will find that putting down opaque marks first and THEN modifying your edges and getting gradations will help you have a clearer understanding of what the artist is doing in his piece, and more efficient procedure in your own, which is EXTREMELY important. There are many different procedures, and you should spend time studying and becoming efficient in as many things as possible so that you have a database of technique and information to pull from whenever you need or want to. And remember you WILL struggle and get frustrated, but keep on trucking and you'll get where you want to be
>>2286305
>>2286238
Also check this shit out if you have not already, Greg manchess drops the wisdom.
also also, a GREAT way to improve is to watch people who are better than you and REALLY WATCH how they do things
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hXxRQJAyRc
this motherfucker does what he does how he does it after DECADES of doing it but look how efficient he is. he does not rush. he looks. he thinks, what is the goal of the mark i want to make? he makes a mark. he looks again. is my mark correct? what should i change? on to the next mark. That is damn good and efficient procedure, but keep in mind of all the things he must have practiced for thousands of hours to earn that skill. riley abstractions, loomis, construction, simple form studies, on and on and on. Strive for that efficiency in what you do and do the trench work to get there. the more you learn and know and think, the less you have to guess and mess around to get something correct. sorry if im rambling, im sure ive talked your eyes/ears off enough, but never hurts to hear this stuff over and over throughout your training
>>2286273
Thank you. I kept switching between Pen and brush in SAI. I've never downloaded any custom brushes. Do you have any recommendations? I am new at this. That is, doing something so extensive on the tablet.
>>2286305
>>2286325
Thank you anon. I appreciate the words, you certainly weren't talking too much. I've come to appreciate the theory and discussion of art. I don't see it here often, or anywhere. I heard from Vilppu that Michelangelo said "A great artist doesn't draw with his hand, he draws with his mind," and I do have to do a lot of guesswork, scribbling, and I tend to rush a lot when I'm faced with something I'm unfamiliar with. I'll take your advice to heart ad keep trucking.
And to be honest, I much prefer drawing traditionally. The hand eye disconnect is fairly unsettling, what with how digital drawing is closer to pen drawing, so I can't hold it like a pencil, and so forth.
>>2286121
The best way i learned to do value studies is to take a mechnical pencil (not the 20 different shades of pencils you can buy), learn to control your hand so that you can master pressure. It'll teach your eyes to look for even the slightest shift in values. .
I notice that people tend to start with either the lighter or darker values as a preference however, never go straight into black until the very absolute end. You can decimate any artwork by fucking around with black.
I used to do sketches on the side where you start on one corner, and you must move across the page without ever lifting your pencil from the paper until you had made a artpiece.
>>2286369
I found the majority of mine off the internet.
There is some really good free custom brushes you can get if you look around. And though if your a good artist you can work with any brush some brushes are useful for getting certain textures/effects in photoshop to get away from that overly digital appearence.
>>2286369
4chan wont let me link it, but go to muddycolors.com and search for '10 things about value'. this and greg manchess' other '10 things' are great reading on the thinking aspect of art. Good luck with all your endeavors and remember not to be hard on yourself, patience with procedure and oneself is a discipline you build, not one youre born with, and nobody gets good as quickly as they'd like
>>2286151
Is there any reason to go for charcoal instead of graphite pencils?
I fucking hate charcoal.
>>2286504
Wont take you 15 days to get the shading done on anything bigger than 1x1 inches
>>2286504
try using conte a paris pierre noire pencils b hardness. they go dark fast and easy like charcoal, but dont have the negative of rubbing away easily, and in my opinion are just more enjoyable to use than brands like generals
>>2286504
Charcoal doesn't have a specular reflection like graphite. Charcoal will actually go to a 0 value, while i've found graphite goes to 2.5 at best. Charcoal also requires less pressure than graphite, so there's less strain/chance of CTS. (I got cts from burnishing with colored pencils).
I hate graphite and find charcoal to be superior in every regard save for portability. Haven't used it for at least 3 years. Either pen or charcoal (occasionally paint or something).
digital is fine if you don't color pick, but too forgiving for a beginner imo. if you have the tool, by all means use it if you plan to do it eventually anyway.
I'll answer some of your other questions tomorrow. Some great input from other anons here.
>>2287326
OP here. I suppose it depends on what surface you're using it on. All I have access to now is a strathmore toned grey, and newsprint. The charcoal I use doesn't go to black easily, and acts more like chalk on concrete.
Of course newsprint is never the go-to; it is very soft, feather, for one. But I've gotten three different types of charcoal and none of them seemed to work, except for the little twigs in >>2286165, which break very easily. Am I doing something wrong?
>>2287336
You gotta hold your charcoal and use it like Jeff watts (only reference here because there aren't a lot of ways to tell you how to hold it)
>>2286504
I use color shapers and graphite powder which kind of has the same effect as charcoal but feels better imo. (Idea stolen from Nadia Mogilev)
>>2289065
>graphite powder
OP here, Not sure if it's the same but I use tissue to rub the charcoal in since it's very mottled. Also I have used conte crayon powder in the past since it's softer than the charcoal I have. I got the idea from Steve Huston. Both work well when rubbed in.
I've been doing >>2286151 for the last couple of days and my concern is I'm doing it wrong. The values get very muddy when I rub in the charcoal.
RANT TIME FOR THE SAKE OF ART TALKING
On the discussion of values Id like to ask for help specifically in the values of this thing I'm doing now.
This is a work I'm having fun working on this but I'm having trouble getting a good value balance going.
I believe that a standard rule is that when planning a background it's a good idea and almost demanded you firmly decide on what's your fore/mid and background.
And to set a value range fore each plane.
here I decided I wanted the image to recede into light. But now that I just reduced it to grey scale I see that my contrast isn't so good.
It's mostly very even. I want strong directional light coming in from the right closer to the viewer. I'll want to mute and bring up the lightness of the most distant colors, increase the contrast where it counts and more strongly define the direction of light.
And the shadow of that right fence can be muted.
Also I need a focal point I guess. Like boys playing in the street. Something to give the image a point.
What do you think? Am I on the right track in my self critiquing here?
>>2290777
the cast shadow looks off on the fence and theres no shadow at all on that building, I would have a guy riding a bike sort of under the leaning telephone pole coming out of the cast shadow of the building. that would be a lot more interesting. but yeah it looks good. I'd also render the trees out in the background just a little more.
>>2290777
your point of interest is in the center and that makes the picture boring.
your thumbnail needs more readability, that means you should split your values into 3 max 4 and work from there
there's some serious problem with the lack of something to look, it's just a fucking road with no definition
but overall I think it's ok, you just need to be aware of composition and marked values to make your work more appealing
and the light casted upon the building isn't there
check that out
your self critique is ok but I believe you are overthinking it. do thousands of these and you will get a grasp
repeat repeat repeat
>>2286121
I'm fairly new to art, learning value and what not. I find digital much more FUN. When I was using graphite I had to force myself to hunch over and draw with a frustrating medium for 30 minutes before I'd let myself quit. But with digital I literally paint for hours no problem.
