Hello /ic/ I come to you with a question.
Do any of you by chance, have a tutorial on ambient occlusion painting?
Im very interested in learning it, as I enjoy the look it gives 2d art.
SO far I have found a few touch in tutorials on it, and one in Russian, that looks like it is actually very well done, I tried following it, but I don't speak Russian, so yeah...
My problem is, I'm too focused on darks as shadows, and my AO attempts just turn to shadow layers, I can't quite shake it off.
Any help would be appreciated
>>2280826
Alex Negrea has one on gumroad, it's pretty good.
>>2280838
thanks, is it worth the 5 bucks? Dont mind paying for it if it is :)
>>2280842
I think so. five bucks is basically a fast food meal, maybe you can pirate it somewhere, I don't know - I bought it. It's very long and indepth.
>>2280848
I bought it anyway, Thanks anon. I look forward to watching it.
>>2280848
>$5 is basically a meal
not him but its not really because $5 is expensive that I'd be hesitant, but because there's usually a free version out there that's just as good.
Eventually the $5 adds up to a few hundred/thousand when you could have gotten it all for free.
>>2280826
Could it be possible jiyu is a major troll fooling everyone by making a 3d render and then working his way back to a sketch?
>>2280879
Five bucks for a few hours worth of art instruction is expensive? Well, I disagree. Honestly you sound like a spoiled little brat who feels he is entitled to get everything in life for free. Pretty pathetic.
>>2280896
>he doesn't know about ambient occlusion
It's awful way of rendering
>>2280896
There is nothing magic about it.
>>2280898
>is expensive
I explicitly said its not because its expensive.
There's a difference between not buying something because its expensive and not buying something because there's a free version of it that's of the same quality.
I have plenty of money to buy whatever I want, but I have that money because I don't waste it on things I don't need to waste money on.
Rather, its you who sounds like a spoiled brat who has no idea what money management is, almost everything you need to "git gud" at art is only for free if you spend 30 seconds to look for it. We have thousands of great teachers on youtube giving out better advice while visually showing you what to do. We have thousands of websites dedicated to teaching you various branches of art.
All of these things can be found on other places for just $5, however after buying them all over the place its no longer $5, its $5,000.
And sure, that's affordable for a hobby, but why waste all that money when you don't have to?
>>2280907
I can send you 5$ if u want. Just stop blah blah blah
after the first video
I think it helped a lot, certainly worth $5.
>>2280896
Id say it were possible, but I doubt that it's what happened. If it was, then he's awesome for doing it. Gave a new technique to many people, that greatly helped their artwork.
This is my AO so far, its a lot better than my attempts before the video.
Thanks again >>2280838
davin platts has one and its quite good
>>2280907
I do agree with you Anon, which is why I asked if it were worth the 5 bucks, I had previously spent 5 bucks on a tutorial from the same site, and it was rubbish, and I later found it on youtube after digging deeper. It's not expensive, maybe to some, but i would say the majority of us have 5$ to spend on our hobby. But like i said, this was well worth the 5 bucks very happy with that purchase.
I'll kill her
>>2280907
Well, there isn't a free version that is of the same quality. I am sure you can pirate it somewhere though but I don't mind supporting a fellow artist. Why? Because I'm not a fucking cheapskate.
Anyone who has a bit of experience with digital painting can easily understand the basics of the AO method by glancing at the various free tutorials. That's a given. Do you NEED Alex tutorial? Ofcourse not! But I found it useful and well worth the price. More than the AO stuff it gave me a lot of useful tips on workflow and general digital painting techniques.
>>2280913
Glad you can learn from it and be able to render smoothly, but it seems like the eyes (the eyeball itself and the eyelid) are placed on a flat plane and not a sphere like it should be
>>2280953
ah yes so it is, is this better?
>>2280914
Yeah, I have it and it's good.
Anyway, I asked this in another thread and nobody could give me an answer. Is there any method really straightforward like but with a more painterly approach? I like that style for character art, but it kinda of takes away some personality and doesn't look too good for bigger scenes.
What I like most is that you don't lose yourself, it's a nice process that you can follow to get a particular result and I really like working like that, as I tend to get lost in the process of painting. It would be nice to have another breakdown of a different process.
>>2280826
>and one in Russian
I can translate it
>>2281003
well here it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrmE4cV2PBk
Do you have to have the fundamentals down perfectly in order to do this?
Are there any bad examples of this?
>>2281028
Gee, I don't know, do you think you need to be a master of perspective, or gesture, or anatomy to draw a portrait en face?
>>2281037
;-; stop yelling at me I don't know the answer!!!
Sam Nielson
>>2281050
You really haven't, get back to work
>>2281047
Here's an updated picture
>>2281050
I guess that's true. I'm just wondering if mistakes are more apparent when one tries to render this way.
Sometimes it can be easy to hide mistakes with fancy brushwork and style but you can't do that with this.
>>2281010
May be there is a specific part you are not sure about or something? Because you probably understand almost everything.
>>2281068
Ambient occlusion fades really smooth (19:00 in the tutorial). In your drawing it doesn't in some parts, on her neck and her philtrum, for example. It basically shows that the form is like (1) instead of (2)
>>2280826
Op, I wanted to share some stuff that I haven't really seen mentioned.
I personally really like that technique. There are a lot of people that absolutely hate it but that's them. Honestly I love it. It's pretty time consuming and usually only use parts of the process unless it's a look that is specifically asked for.
Anyway,
if you want to use this effectively, you kind of have to already have to have a sense of how to sculpt out what you want. Basically a really good handle on form. After that you have to be used to making things super tight. As always, a higher resolution usually helps as well. But if you don't personally have a great 3D modeling program in your head (in a matter of speaking lol) it'll be tough to get that look you're going for.
You aren't just doing AO to get those results. You have to keep in mind pretty much every render pass you would have in a 3d program anyway. There are a few people I know that use a single layer as a part of the entire render, as in 1 layer will be fresnel alone, one will be cast shadows, another will be rim lights or tints, speculars and so on. You will really have to switch around your process to go at things like Jiyu does. For everything those videos are showing you, there is probably 10 things it's not showing you. Not at any fault of Mr. Negrea, but likely more so because they are more fundamental elements.
I hope that helps at least a little.
Good luck with your future efforts :D I really think it's a good workflow to learn if you are willing to put in the work, if only to learn how isolate certain elements out of your work and employ that knowledge in a more traditional technique.
>>2281182
>You have to keep in mind pretty much every render pass you would have in a 3d program anyway.
What do you mean, anon?
>>2281203
i think wat he means is in 3d there is the basic lighting, then basic texture lighting, then detailed lighting for the texture then detail reflective lighting ect ect,
so each pass is about a buildup that relates to not only the form of the surface, buts its relationship to lighting so far, its own reflextiveness and its textures influence on the lighting.
Its a buildup technique that must be done consciously bearing in mind what surface is being rendered and how it will be affected and effect nearby surfaces.
let me know if this is bullshit.
>>2281221
well, put. That's pretty much what I meant.
Because we are painting, we don't exactly have to rely on such detailed crap if we know we can combine a few things into a single layer. But having your order and process planned out is absolutely necessary. This is a technique which takes a few times to actually get right in the least, because aside from what I said about needing specific fundamentals, you also need to do each step in order (for the most part) to keep checking that things look right.
I mean you can always omit certain things to make it a bit more simple, but then you will be detracting from the hyper real quality. Though, if you learn how to use it well enough, you can have the great 3d qualities, the tight qualities, and mix them with something a little less 2reel4me. I don't know. There's just a lot you can do with this particular pocket knife of a process. Like I said before, if anything, it is fantastic at training your brain. Fuck the haters.
>>2280900
why is it awful?
>>2282923
because his opinions said so
>Ambient occlusion painting
Why would you do this? It's only useful for diffuse/fog light, try to use that tek with focal light and you won't be able to paint shit
>>2282980
>trying to sound smart.....falure
>>2281010
wow man thanks for the tutorial, that was helpful
See I would like to do this in Sai since I get headaches after using photoshop for 30 mintutes. And also learned to love Sai's brushes
>>2283357
What were your problems with photoshop?
I can recommend a good brush set
>>2283357
Sai is shit. You will never able to paint something like this, because Sai can't into photoshop opacity/flow brushes and textures
>>2283823
I-is that wad of scribbles supposed to be impressive?
>>2283827
>I-is that wad of scribbles supposed to be impressive?
You belong in a garbage can
>>2283835
>butthurt saifag
Tryharder, trash :^
>>2283842
>being this mad to screw up a smiley
:^)
>>2283844
>screw up a smiley
>>2280826
knowing this term isnt going to make you a better painter,
>>2282575
That's frankly not true.
A lot of artists regularly swap between SAI and photoshop during workflow-- photoshop is not the be all end all. Opacity mix is much less intuitive to artists moving from traditional to digital especially.
Photoshop brush engine is far superior to sai but color mixing and lines are easier in sai. It's a mistake to believe that one program is superior to the other when they should really be treated as tools used for specific jobs. You wouldn't use a paintbrush to do an ink pen's job, just as you wouldn't use photoshop to mix colors when sai will do it for you.
In the end, it's how you use your tools that's more important than the tools themselves.
>>2283863
how about, no.
>>2283823
>>2283833
Definitely this concept art style is more suited for photoshop as you can streamline the workflow and make content faster-- a good example of this is when people cannibalize their old paintings to give texture to a completely new composition. That kind of photomanipulation is obviously not fit for a program like SAI.
>>2283842
Nababa's style, however, is definitely not outside the capabilities of SAI and is really not a good example of what photoshop can do when distinguished from SAI. Photoshop has far more features when compared to SAI and is fully capable of doing anything SAI can but requires different methods to achieve the same result so it is kind of a waste to use photoshop where SAI might be more appropriate to do a certain job.
tl;dr, both are good but in their own ways. Having more features doesn't mean it's a better program for doing a certain job. I will say that probably clip studio paint is superior to SAI in every aspect but it doesn't really have a place for some people that juggle between SAI and photoshop already.
>>2283854
OP isn't asking the definition of the term you mook, he's asking for tuts on how to do it. Next time you feel the need to be smart, it helps to actually be smart.
>>2283863
Just because a tool exist doesn't mean it's worth using. PS is all you need. If all Sai has is a few things that are "easier" then just get better with PS. Why bother doing the back and forth bullshit swapping from one to another.
>>2283871
never gonna make it
>>2283876
>thinking you need to use SAI to make it. When infact, most people who have don't.
>>2283877
>thinks I'm not talking about skills
>>2283875
>Why bother...
not gonna make it
dont even bother with art at all, just pay someone else to do it for you amirite?
>>2283875
It really is not hard to swap between programs back and forth especially since you can have both open at the same time without issue. Update from file is a function supported in both these programs. You can achieve the same effect of a palette knife with a traditional bristle but what's the point if it is really no effort to switch between tools.
>>2283875
>why bother closing and opening a program in about 30 sec than just struggling in a program that was never meant to do that something wasting more time
fucking logic how do they werkz :^)
>>2283875
who said anything about definition? knowing the term means he wants to know more about it. that includes through different areas of interest. learn some english kid.
>>2283875
your post is so retarded I have to reply on it as well
>>2283863
Sorry I'm not sure why that linked to a cross thread post.
>>2283874
>>2283863
Well in CSP I found this option. It's transform your brush into ps style. But I can't achieve same effect in SAI. Even marker doesn't work.
>>2283874
everything sai can do, photoshop can do even better. that includes inking. the only difference is performance and thats hardly even the reason to use sai over photoshop. the quality of the line stays the same.
>>2283907
>inking
>blending
But even professional artists said otherwise.
>>2283907
Performance is really important...
>>2283907
the way you suck adobe cock is so hard that you could use all your post as portfolio when they're hiring people :^)
>>2283905
Unfortunately keeping opacity doesn't work the same way in SAI as photoshop-- with density pressure on strokes over the same line will stack opacity instead of keeping the same opacity. The closest you'll get is probably with marker, density pressure off, blending pressure off and then manually changing opacity of the brush.
>>2283907
>that includes inking
nigga what are you smokin
>>2283907
>being a brand loyalist to the point of self-harm
>>2280904
What's the point of making your drawing look like a shitty 3D render when you could have just made a shitty 3D render with 10% of the effort?
It's literally pointless, it's like painting interior visualisation. Not only is it tedious as fuck, it's boring to look at.
It's photo or hyper-realism tier, except a notch lower in aesthetic value.
>>2284463
>>2284463
have you ever made a 3D render? confirmed for not knowing what you're talking about. it takes a lot longer.
>>2284468
No, it takes less time to sculpt a figure and bake AO than it does to draw a figure and fucking paint AO over it.
It does take longer to actually finish a 3D render and go further than AO in the pipeline, but it will also look better than the garbage in OP's pic.
poop test
>>2284471
>No, it takes less time to sculpt a figure and bake AO than it does to draw a figure and fucking paint AO over it.
How shit at art could you possibly be for this to be true?
How shit at drawi
>>2284471
sculpting takes a LOT longer in general. Of course both for sculpting and painting it depends a lot on your style and the level of quality you want to achieve, but when painting you can get away with a LOT more than when sculpting.
>>2284464
stop
>>2284799
I'm not going to post my work here as I don't want to be associated with this place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7eoD-frcwQ
But, this only takes about 3 hours. If you get good at speed sculpting you can do a human in 3 hours.
It is even easier if you start with a basemesh.
The time consuming bit on character art isn't the sculpting.
>>2284538
How shit at sculpting are you? Or are you clueless?
3D is all about reusability. You never have to start from scratch on a figure, you always have a basemesh to work off of.
