If life is inherently meaningless; and if it's all I can do to find a comfortable rut and distract myself with the pursuit of meaningless knowledge; with someone who I've convince myself I love because I wanted to fuck them twenty years ago, which I've convinced myself constitutes love or with alcohol and other drugs and wait to die, does that mean I can never be better than an alcoholic or a jakey? And if so, what point is there in continuing to live?
In short, if life has no inherent meaning what reason is there not to become a total hedonist?
And if you don't care for total hedonism what reason is there to continue living?
The point is non-existence is scarier than existence.
>>994863
No it isn't.
If we can't experience non-existence how can we be frightened of it?
>>994872
The thought of it is scarier than any "real" thing you can experience.
>>994872
Just think. You can not experience non-existance because you wouldn't exist. You would not have consciousness, feelings, a body, you simply would not exist. It is completely Alien to us, the concept of non-existance is scary when you think about it. At least you can think, and be aware of how miserable your life is going.
>>994816
What does "better" mean?
>>994851
>what reason is there not to become a total hedonist?
None.
>And if you don't care for total hedonism what reason is there to continue living?
There is none, unless you care about something else.
>>994851
This is a lot more legible than the OP, thanks.
>In short, if life has no inherent meaning what reason is there not to become a total hedonist?
There isn't a reason for it or against it. If you want to do everything in your power to maximize your total pleasure, go ahead. If you want to live like a Buddhist or something, go ahead. When you remove the higher purpose, whatever human beings do is utterly unimportant to the rest of the universe. Our choices and personal lifestyles are no different from those of any other creature on the planet. Is it 'better' for an ant to decide only to eat what it needs & give the rest back to the community, rather than just eating what it wants, when it wants? Well, from what perspective? From our perspective, we couldn't care less. From the perspective of antkind, sure it's better. There is no objective 'better' or 'worse'. It all depends on point of view.
>And if you don't care for total hedonism what reason is there to continue living?
That's a bit like asking 'if you don't care for football, what reason is there to continue living?' If you don't like hedonism, don't be a hedonist. That doesn't mean you should end your life.
Life may not have an inherent meaning, but you as a rational being may instill in it whatever meaning you see fit.
You can live for anything you choose.
It is much more fulfilling than having to live with any meaning it may intrinsically have.
If your life is meaningless, then you have only yourself to blame for failing to give it one.
>>994927
>That's a bit like asking 'if you don't care for football, what reason is there to continue living?' If you don't like hedonism, don't be a hedonist. That doesn't mean you should end your life.
Well I don't mean "hedonist" is the strictly proper sense, merely as whatever you find enjoyable/pleasurable/meaningful/important.
>>994925
You don't wake up. When you sleep you have dreams, or at the very least still have a feeling that you're there. You can't compare sleeping to non-existance. You can not know non-existance because you've never experienced it. Even if you die, some part of you still remains, your molecules and your Body remain. It is hard to explain non-existance because its such an Alien concept to us
>>995022
You cannot experience non existence because you don't exist. It's just like it was before you were born.
>>995034
No, even before you were born you existed. As a sperm cell inside your dad, you were incomplete, you would not even be considered human, but still, some part of you, somewhere, existed.
>>995039
If we're going to use that line of thinking then every person who ever has existed or ever will is already in existence.
It's idiotic.
>>995022
>>995034
>>995039
If you're fucking autistic, maybe.
But for all intents and pruposes I contend that there can be no existence of the self without experience of existence.
And, even then, by this stage it's pretty obvious I'm talking about suicide, not complete non-existence like you think it is.
>>994950
But if I'M instilling meaning how does that make me any different than those who instil meaning in the search for more alcohol or drugs or diversions?
And if I can't be better than an addict, what point is there to BE at all?
>>995052
Death is the same as non-existence as far as I am concerned. The self is a function of a living brain. Once the brain dies, it's over. Your body is just matter waiting to be recycled.
>>995065
Precisely. So, if non-existence is the same as death, why fear non-existence?
Read Susan Wolf's essay Meanings of Lives.
>>994950
I like your reasoning. Please elaborate further.
>>995064
There's not point in being, but there's even less in not being.
What's the point in dying now when you're just going to die later anyway?
If you only live once, why not live out your lot in case something better, that you see as better, comes along.
I can't give your life purpose, only you can.
Kill yourself if you want, but what's the point if your life isn't actually physically painful to live?
>>995104
well, these deliberations on whether I should bother carrying on can be fairly unpleasant
>>995129
So don't bother.
the question is as pointless as its answer.
>>995104
but fuck it, you make sense, even if it's only for just now
>>995104
Although, actually, that's less me instilling meaning in my life and more me waiting and hoping for the vague possibility that my experience becomes more enjoyable/ that I'm able to find something to distract myself with.
The only reason people are Nihilistic is because they are raised in heavily Christianized cultures that instill them with the belief of a divine order to the universe -- and when this belief is negated in the form of Atheism it leads to depression.
There's a reason the Oriental folks dont even have a word for Existentialism/Nihilism, and thats because Christianity never touched them. Nihilism is, at its core, despair over being taught one thing (divine order, divine purpose, everything happens for a reason, etc ) and realizing that reality does not conform to it.
>>995170
Now that you mention, are existential crises a big thing among Asians?
I mean I guess most of them by the numbers have other things to think about in their lives but especially in the richer more westernized parts of it it might be a thing like here, but perhaps in different shapes and form since they aren't Christians/westerners.
I don't really know much about asian spirituality and how it coexists with modernity.
>>995192
>Now that you mention, are existential crises a big thing among Asians?
Answer: No
Source: Literally not even a single Asian existentialist / nihilist philosopher (that isn't a occidentalphile)
>>995198
>>995192
>>995170
Reminder that Nietzsche even said that Christianity was the progenitor of Nihilism.
In all your deeds, support the construction of the Machine, if you find life lacking.
The Machine will will render death meaningless, and once you've entered it, you'll be free to do as you please until the end of time and quite possibly beyond.
>>995263
>He wants to use technology to fill the void left by the Christian god's absence rather than realize that Nietzsche was right about everything and shouldn't worship anything at all
>>995273
Don't fucking worship the Machine. Singing hymns to it won't get the damn thing built any faster.
>>995289
>He thinks technology is God
>He thinks if we worship technology enough it will literally grant us heaven on earth and eternal life
>He's another "muh singularity" faggot who just re-purposed Christianity with modernist conceptions of technological utopia rather than divine utopia
I swear you people have zero self-awareness
>>995304
I've heard the singularity described as "Fedora Rapture" and it's the single best description I've ever seen. It cuts straight to the heart of the matter.
ITT: Will to live.
Evolution is the thing stopping you from killing yourself.
You have a inherent will to live. It's what you are wired to do.
>>995304
It's like you can't read.
>>995340
Zero. Self. Awareness.
Thinking that the "singularity" is even possible is strictly a matter of religious-like faith in a higher power. It holds no grounds in reality. Technology is not magic, so stop treating it like it is.
>BUT MUH MOORES LAW
Has been dead for years already due to the laws of fucking physics. Who would have thought that would happen by extrapolating a 50-year-old trend into infinity?
>>994816
Have you considered actually loving a person?
>>995359
You're the only one who mentioned the Singularity.
You're so entrenched in your rabid hatred of any opinion or sentence that resembles a belief in it that you can't imagine I could possibly be fucking talking about something else.
>>995392
>I wasn't talking about that one really popular belief that technology will usher forth utopia and grant us eternal life
>No, no, I was talking about THAT OTHER belief that technology will usher forth utopia and grant us eternal life
>>994816
pffff....just find a purpose, I did.
>>995396
See? You're still on about this.
I'm not even talking about strong AI. I'm across town from that ballpark.
>>995414
Why do I get the feeling that you're just backpedaling now?
>>995420
Because you still haven't calmed the hell down.
>>995414
It doesn't matter if he's referring to your incredibly specific technology based rapture event because the criticism is of that kind of thinking in general.
>>995426
Well unless you're about to tell me about whether I've heard the good news about the Omnissiah and his eventual awakening from his slumber from beneath the surface of Mars then you basically have nowhere else to go seeing as how you flat out said it without actually saying it in >>995263
>>995430
It's not something that I think is going to change human life in the immediate future, or even the reasonably distant one.
Even if everything goes to plan, human society will probably be a distant cosmic memory by the time the first weld is made.
>>995437
That's because you've got no imagination.
A person could live and "die" in support of the Machine but never see as much as a blueprint.
>>995455
Alright, let me take a guess - big cosmic simulation thing of a star-sized computer or other that grants us all utopia and immortality because, as always, technology is magic and history is linear, right?
>this thread
>>995468
A construction that harnesses the energy of a galaxy or few, a couple billion years down the road, in order to establish a brief tether through spacetime to the brain of every human who has ever or will ever die, in the miliseconds before their body is permanently unable to support the brain's function. The utopia and immortality bit is optional, it'd be up to the individuals what they want to do with their corner of the simulation.
Ultimately it's a glorified ant farm for the person who builds it, because at that point they're probably going to be bored.
>>995496
>See? My extremely specific, unfounded, faith-based belief that technology will grant us immortality in the form of a utopian afterlife has nothing to do with all of that other stuff you mentioned!
>This isn't just a repurposed, modernist interpretation of Christianity left by the metaphorical death of god in an age that believes technology will inevitably solve the world's problems as a matter of viewing history through a linear perspective like all of the Abrahamic faiths do
>>995522
If you're that determined to be right, go ahead and pat yourself on the head, buddy.
Faith can be involved in supporting the Machine, yes, but it doesn't need to be. I fully realize that the plan might fail and has a pretty high chance of doing so, but I've got nothing better to do, and ultimately neither does anyone else.
And I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about when you say "viewing history through a linear perspective," what are you on about, there?
>>994816
>And if so, what point is there in continuing to live?
the point is to understand why you are not happy and you create this little story justifying your failure.
>>995541
>And I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about when you say "viewing history through a linear perspective," what are you on about, there?
The Abrahamic / Marxist / Modernist interpretation that history is "progressing towards" something with some factors constantly increasing or decreasing over time as a matter of law (Like the idea that technology will always increase in complexity and ability over time) and that this will ultimately result in some Eschatological "end time" (either in the form of rapture, worker's revolution, or utopia-on-earth, or something else entirely) at which point history will be "finished" and that's that. Its exactly as it sounds - linear, as in history having a beginning (creation) and ending (Armageddon, rapture, etc)
Linear history is the most cancerous meme on this entire board, and I hate it. History is, if anything cyclical - a constant sine-wave of highs and lows, rises and falls, births and deaths. Basically, Oswald Spengler was right about everything.
>>995570
I'm all for a cyclical view of history and forward outlook, but that doesn't cancel out the fact that significant events and developments do happen. Sure, their effect may be lost in memory at some point down the road, but if we don't work towards anything, nothing happens, and that's fucking boring.
>>994816
Just join a religion if you are despairing this much.
>>994816
Quit hogging all the misery, were in this together
