Why are myths about Africans never having any civilization, only living in mud huts, and not using their resources, and never had metal working still spread today? Can people not open a history book? Also Africa thread
oh boy it's this thread again
People usually say it about Bantus
>>990466
I said nothing wrong
Come to think of it I know literally nothing about Sub-Saharan Africa.
What the hell were they doing down there before Euro showed up? Somebody give me a run down.
>>990472
Don't know much but I know they had a few trading kingdoms around the Tanzanian coast and west African empires.
>>990472
Nothing much. Some live in tribes that had huts while other were professing by themselves
>>990480
*progressing
>>990490
>Mali
>Songhai
>Sokoto
>Ghana
>Nok
>Ethiopia
>Swahili States
>Nubia
>>990492
I don't even go there because they start ragging on me over my Mexican flag.
>>990496
I'm not saying they didn't exist anon I said they were flailing about uselessly.
>>990499
What do you mean "flailing about uselessly"? That they didn't have some impact in the world around them?
>>990499
>they were flailing about uselessly
But anon, we are all flailing about uselessly.
Mali was the GOAT African country.
Prove me wrong. (you literally can't)
>>990689
they have stupid hats.
>>990496
Pretty pathetic when you look at the size of Africa famalam.
>>990472
http://www.unesco.org/new/en/social-and-human-sciences/themes/general-history-of-africa/volumes/
That's the general history and it's massive as fuck so you may take a while.
Specifics it's harder to find unless you have access to an academic library/site and online it's even more of a pain in the ass to find.
>>990496
>Only one of these is Sub-saharan
What the hell is it about Sub-Sahara that prevents progress? Where the fabled Mountains of Kong some impenetrable barrier for intelligence?
This might also interest all of you who were participating in that female warrior thread a while back too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahomey_Amazons
>>990717
Don't blame them that half the continent has shitty land to develop.
>>990724
>Mali
>Ghana
>Not Sub Saharan
>>990717
Not really
>>990724
Literally all of those are sub-saharan
>>990739
eh, Nubia and Ethiopia are a bit iffy.
>>990725
>female
>warrior
So what can you tell me about these "civilizations" pre european contact? Oh that's right they didn't write shit down so nothing.
t. hitler
cute
u
t
e
>>990795
yes, there's an example of precisely that in the article. What's your point?
>>990462
Ethiopia almost made it. :(
RIP Ethiopia, jewed by the League of Nations because the Italians couldn't fight fair.
>>990872
Because egypt was an actual civilization?
>>990872
They dont know the other countries existed. Hell I bet they dont even know the names of the countries now. But that's more of an American thing.
>>990872
Fuck off please
>>990893
>>990872
just like with essjayuu's think 4chan distorts the acceptance of these ideas
>>990755
Those are subsaharan.
If those two places aren't then the term as it is used to describe black Africans falls apart horribly.
>>991048
Like the term sub Saharan African fall apart once you analyse it.
>>990872
They follow the assumption that if there's something in Africa, it has to be full of black people because African-Americans are black. I don't know why it is but it seems that geography isn't strong point of American education.
Then you have history being taught in complete garbage way(but that's universal, not American only), which basically assumes that there is n-imporant events in history and you probably should know that there was something that happened there that was important, know its date but knowing what exactly it was, how it went, WHY it is important etc. is beyond the programme. Of course both the number and the choice of those "important events" is relatively arbitrary and depends heavily on country.
>>990462
North Africa is part of the Classical World, and its residents (rightly) do not consider themselves African.
Real, black Africans, the sub-Saharan sub-90 IQ kind of Africans, never had significant civilizations.
The closest thing you'll find is in East Africa, where ancient, Muslim-majority, Arabo-Hellenistic trading cities existed in conditions similar to classical North Africa up until contact with Portugal.
Coastal South Africa was largely uninhabited by human beings until the Boers arrived. West Africa was divided into tribes, federations of tribes, the occasional kingdom, and the extremely rare Muslim "empire". While the territorial claims made by some of these, especially the latter, are quite extensive, the fact is that they never controlled the majority of people in their realms in any meaningful way. Taxes simply didn't exist in most of West Africa until Europeans introduced them.
Actual sub-Saharan, Black Africa was never civilized anywhere close to the same degree as Europe or Asia. It's really not difficult to tease out why that might be, either.
>>991115
>Coastal South Africa was largely uninhabited by human beings until the Boers arrived.
Cape year rest were Bantu speakers and they came long long ago.
>>991137
In the before time? From a land far far away?
>>991173
They were there before Europeans
>>991115
>Botswana
>one of the most developed countries in Africa
>Lowest IQ in the world
>>991186
They use indigenous populations.
Also if this is data used from Richard Lynn that's even worse because he heavily fudged and made up numbers to fit his points
>>991186
Somewhat unrelated, but the reason Botswana is so much more economically successful than the rest of sub-Saharan Africa is because it (at least in part) adopted the developmental state model. Most African regimes have an economic program based on the Washington Consensus or Maoist doctrine, which invariably produce poverty.
>>990717
Songhai had a empire a bit smaller than the U.S, considering how fucking huge africa is (remember Mercator's a bitch) and a conservative estimate of Axum puts it at roughly Poland+ Austria give or take.
Africa's fucking huge, a fact we all tend to forget.
>>991115
also, people with an IQ under 70 are considered mentally retarded. I don't think that a country where the majority are basically retards could function. or that people with such a low intelligence could survive in the original state of south africa. you need mad survivor skills to subsist in lets say, the Kalahari Desert, which requires some level of intellect. if you populate an area like that with downies, they wouldn't eventually figure out how to find water sources, how to geather the few edible plants there etc. IQ is probably not a good way to measure the skills of people outside a European-style school system.
>>991216
>Songhai had a empire a bit smaller than the U.S,
The size of Songhai on a map is almost totally arbitrary and speculative. They did not actually govern the majority of their territory. Furthermore, they're one of the Muslim empires of Africa, connected to sub-Sahara like a leech to extract wealth and deliver it to the Dar al-Islam. The greatest "accomplishments" of these people are laughable even in comparison with some of the pre-Islamic Arab city-states, let alone proper Western civilizations.
>>991227
> I don't think that a country where the majority are basically retards could function
Welcome to Africa.
>if you populate an area like that with downies, they wouldn't eventually figure out how to find water sources, how to geather the few edible plants there etc.
If you look at it from a traditional perspective on homo sapiens sapiens, as a creature whose intellect allows it to overcome obstacles, then yeah, it seems unlikely. But that is not how sub-Saharan Africans evolved. The reproductive strategy of these peoples was r-selected. That's why so many of their societies were matriarchal rather than patriarchal. The way they survived was to produce a TON of children, because a lot of them would end up dead quite quickly.
>>991238
>The reproductive strategy of these peoples was r-selected.
What?
>That's why so many of their societies were matriarchal rather than patriarchal.
WHAT?!
>>991115
Where are these numbers from?
>>991238
I don't doubt that there are some inherent differences in intellectual skills, but I think IQ is not an accurate way to measure it. for example, IQ tests usually contain geometrical shapes. even if they are not about actual geometry, people in the developed world are more used to seeing those kind of shapes from school and even from daily life, so they do better in the excercizes where you have to find patterns in such shapes. african natives would probably do better if it was about finding patterns in herds of gazelles or something.
>>990717
You mean like how only Greece and Rome were doing anything while the rest of huge Europe lived in straw huts and flung shit about?
>>991115
Where the actual fuck are you getting this info?
>>990872
OP never mentioned Egypt.
>>991275
Some world IQ test by some guy who decided testing the IQs of 8 starving african kids and comparing it to 4000 adult australian males was a fair test. Thats literally what it is if you look up the raw data. /pol/ takes it as gospel.
>>991048
Nubia wasn't sub-saharan. Nubians were blacks but they lived in the Nile Valley surrounded by the Sahara.
>>991262
First off, recognition of shapes and spaces is a fundamental ability of the human brain. Contemporary IQ tests measure this spatial and geometric intelligence because it is an innate quality. An illiterate Chinese or Indian peasant farmer will still perform far better on an IQ test than an urban Nigerian.
>>990462
Subsaharan Africa indeed never managed to get past early iron age stage, small kingdoms at most, no writing, no developed culture. Given how vast the region is and how much they lagged behind other continents this fuels the inferiority complex of certain people and they have to make up shit like black Egypt and such.
>only Australia was even less developed
>easy pickings for Europeans and Arabs
>enjoy your slavery and getting colonized
>no cultural impact on the world whatsoever
>>991262
Those inherent differences are basically impossible to tell because we don't have the populations at a really stable equal level with each other.
Like currently the disparity in education between nations is massive and even the U.S has that huge disparity within itself.
>>991283
>An illiterate Chinese or Indian peasant farmer will still perform far better on an IQ test than an urban Nigerian.
Please back up this statement with evidence.
>>991238
>The reproductive strategy of these peoples was r-selected.
That's very interesting, usually any more than on child per gestation period kills both mother and child in humans.
>>991281
Ssa includes Living in the Sahara.
Yeah its a retarded term.
>>991287
There is certainly evidence for it in a variety of ways, but more significantly, I think, is that there is no evidence to the contrary. While there are many in academia who tense up at the possibility of having to recognize obvious differences in race and intelligence with all the political and social drama that comes with it, there is no evidence, nor can there be, that in fact all groups of people are equally innately intelligent.
Why do people keep claiming that societies like Mali or Somalia don't count as developed sub-saharan civilizations just because they are Muslim? Do the European states not count as European because they are Christian? Do Thailand and Vietnam not count as South East Asian because they're Buddhist?
>>991283
>recognition of shapes and spaces is a fundamental ability of the human brain.
it is, but it can also be further developed. if you are more used to seeing certain kind of shapes, you will more easily recognize them. an avarage person will have a hard time distinguishing between to sheeps for example, while a shepherd can do it easily. I guess the same goes for drawings of geometrical shapes, if it's the first time of seeing such pictures, you would have a harder time recognizing patterns in them.
>>991301
The whole notion of racial intelligence is pretty stupid. There's just so many extra variables that the last thing we should consider is race. Upbringing is the most important factor in deciding intelligence, and hungry malnourished people turn out fucking stupid.
>>991284
Ethiopia had writing.
Nigs can't handle the bants.
>>991303
Because the level of civilization they attained, meager though it was, was guided and assisted, sometimes directly, by contact with the Islamic world.
>>991301
>There is certainly evidence for it in a variety of ways
Then post it.
>there is no evidence to the contrary
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
>there is no evidence, nor can there be, that in fact all groups of people are equally innately intelligent.
>nor can there be
Those are some hot assumptions, are you gonna justify them?
>>991309
Wasn't European civilisation originally possible due to middle eastern agriculture? They didn't develop it independently.
>>991305
The fact is that you can go to a map of the globe and devise racial categories, test them for intelligence, and every time you have the same result - Africans are mentally impaired, and all too often, seriously so.
You can claim whatever reasons you like, but at the end of the day Africans are simply the dumbest people on the planet (apart from abbos).
>>991313
You don't get to claim that race and intelligence are unrelated when we live in a world where a video like this is made with a serious intent to stop a real problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt0NcaxmGHo
And then there's the fact that they SLEEP IN THE FUCKING ROAD.
>>991309
You mean just like all civilisations?
>>991309
How do you demonstrate something like that? What do you define as "guided and assisted"? Do the civilizations of Europe not count as civilizations because they were all guided and assisted by the Greeks and Romans? Do Japan, Korea, Vietnam, etc not count because they were "guided" by China?
Civilizations influence each other, there's no reason to discard one for it.
>>991316
>The fact is that you can go to a map of the globe and devise racial categories, test them for intelligence, and every time you have the same result - Africans are mentally impaired, and all too often, seriously so.
There's never been a serious fair test on this subject. Regardless, they're also the people in the most poverty so they're going to come out stupider.
>>991316
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qClBRaretEk
>>991316
Okay, this is just /pol/-tier now, until you post actual credible evidence then no one is going to take you seriously
>>991316
>The fact is that you can go to a map of the globe and devise racial categories
Most of these 'racial categories' are to broad to make any meaningful statements and even if you could there's still no reason to correlate intelligence.
>test them for intelligence
Show me a 100% infallible IQ test that isn't affected by the subjects upbringing and environment.
> and every time you have the same result
Again, post your source.
>You don't get to claim that race and intelligence are unrelated when we live in a world where a video like this is made with a serious intent to stop a real problem.
>This isolated incident is representative of an entire race.
Do you really think you cant find videos of white people doing stupid shit?
>And then there's the fact that they SLEEP IN THE FUCKING ROAD.
If this is a criteria for intelligence then most Asian people are not as smart as you think.
>>991284
>Subsaharan Africa indeed never managed to get past early iron age stage
But they did. Fucking majority of Africans implemented and developed iron metallurgy for their own needs. The Haya in Tanzania developed steel 2000 years before euros due to the wonders of Carbon dating.
>Small kingdoms at most
A great amount were large kingdim or empires that had substantial influence in the region and in trade.
>no writing
Only Ethiopia Muslim areas adopted Arabic though. However large amounts of people never made their own script. Vast majority if euro languages use Latin script as one example. Though if you said little to no literacy you point would stand better but literacy has been pretty shut for the majority of history only learned by a few folks.
>no developed culture.
So own religion, myths, oral history, educating future generation, passing generational knowledge, language music and food?
>>991289
/pol/acks and neoreactionaries don't know shit about biology but keep abusing biological terms because of muh Social Darwinism.
>>991348
You got nothing then
>>991348
>a high level of discourse is expected
This is why no one likes you /pol/
>>991359
You know the Haya with the steel was that knowledge was passed down for generations however due to cheap steel imports they lost their steel making jobs earlier in the 20th century so the knowledge was dying out. Only when on archeologist unintentionally discovered that a few elders knew the traditional way to do it and made sterling after they showed it to him that he further investigated and found several sites dating to as far back as 2000 years ago as far as its known and this is high grade carbon steel. Wootz steel in India is another marvel but unfortunately they lost the knowledge on how to make it.
>>991348
So you are posting this because you can't refute him?
>>991348
Mali
Thomas Sowell
Ghana
Poverty
Still Homo Sapien
White Women are notorious for yelling rape when in distress about their decision making
>>991425
Wait, who the fuck is that 4chan guy?
>>991348
This pic is genius because it relies on the fact that the average person is deeply ignorant, so it works 99% of the time.
>>991428
Russian Nuclear Physicist Dr. Moot Pavel
>>991348
1. Ethiopia (inb4 muh east africans are actually caucasian), Mali, Nubia, Ashanti etc. There are quite a few, sure, they never became too developed, but they were civilizations non the less.
2. There are some modern ones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:African_philosophers It shows that they are capable of that too. (Again, no one argues that African civilizations were as advanced as European ones, but it doesn't mean that it's because Africans are genetically incapable of being civilized).
3. Namibia, Botswana, Gabon, Mauritsius are fairly developed, surpassing several East Asian, Middle Eastern and South-American nations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
4. Poverty, shitty ghetto culture, single mothers.
5. IQ is not 100% genetic, and also an innacurate way to measure intelligece. Also, define equality (hint: it doesn't mean equity).
6. Again, poverty and shitty upbringing leads to more criminal behaviour.
But let's say that there is a 100% scientific proof that blacks are genetically more prone to lower intelligence and more violence. Then what's the next step? In my opinion, basically nothing. People will just have to accept that blacks will always do less well in schools, will be underrepresented in highter paying jobs and overrepresented among criminals. There are enough examples that show that blacks are capable of functioning in intellectual positions and not being criminals, if they grow up in the right circumstances.
Even if racialists are right, and blacks will never reach the level of whites, they can still become a mostly middle class group with lower levels of criminality. Even in today's america, it's only a minority of blacks who commit criminal acts (only a 3rd of males http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/racial-disparities-criminal-justice_n_4045144.html ), most of them could become law abiding citizens if the majority could.
>>991457
Fucking kek he deleted it
I think the thing everyone forgets about sub-saharan Africa is that the Bantu and other indiginous people were isolated from trading hubs. In virtually every isolated population, you find they do not have an aptitude for technology or civilization.
This is because concepts like the wheel, agriculture, writing - although obvious to me and you - were not thought up for over 100,000 years of human histroy. And where they were thought up, they were invented because of very specific circumstances. Europeans and Asians didn't "invent" agriculture by themselves. These cultures weren't living in a vacuum inventing everything themselves. The area around the classical world has always been very advanced because of trade and the spread of ideas.
Isolated peoples such as aboriginies and the bantu never came in contact with people who could write. They never had the cultural trade and exposure to new ideas the people of north africa, the levant and europe did. And most importantly, they never had any *incentive* to invent these concepts. They could survive. They didn't need to trade, they didn't need a civilization to defend themselves, they didn't need the concept of the wheel.
That's why I think civlization never appeared in these areas.
>>991115
>This map
KEK
get the fuck out you fucking racist piece of shit
>>990462
Yea most people forget about the King Wēwuz the 3rd; ruler of Niger for 200 years. It is said that Crassus enyvied Wēwuz' gold teeth so much that he sought out the words riches.
Big meme
>>991496
It's not propaganda. There are huge amounts of Arabic documents describing blacks.
>>991262
Africans ARE undeniably less intelligent than their Arab, Caucasian or Asian counterparts, even without using IQ tests
Kenyan 5 year olds regularly fail the mirror test, while Caucasian and Asian children pass it when they're about 1 1/2 to 2 years old.
http://www2.psych.ubc.ca/~henrich/pdfs/Journal%20of%20Cross-Cultural%20Psychology-2010-Broesch-%20Cultural%20Variations%20in%20Children's%20Mirror%20Self-Recognition.pdf
>>991676
Perhaps Kenyan children dont see mirrors often while western and asian kids are bombarded with mirrors from day 1.
>>991689
That's bullshit, you do realize there are natural reflections in the wild, right?
They'd see it whenever they went to a stream to take some water
>>991676
Do you seriously believe that birds are smarter than Kenyan and Polynesian pre-schoolers or do you just don't wanna accept that muh cultural differences actually exist?
>>991699
Not all birds, only the magpie has passed that test, and they are certainly clever creatures
>>991694
>Of the 82 children tested, only two demonstrated any of the defined self-oriented behaviors when facing their “marked” image in the mirror (one-tailed binomial test, p < .001, with a .60 probability threshold). Of these two children, one removed the mark and one touched but did not remove the mark (both were 48 months of age; one male and one female). Coding of freezing behavior reveals that 80 of the 82 children (one-tailed binomial test, p < .001, with a .50 probability thresh-old) displayed such behavior, taring at their image in the mirror, without any attempt at either touching or removing the mark on their forehead. The two 48-month-olds that self-oriented did not freeze. These results are in sharp contrast with what is reported with Western children. For example, ewis and Ramsay (2004), using a comparable procedure, report that over 80% of children by 21 months and 100% of children by 24 months of age pass the test by touching or removing the mark
These are kids who walk around with flies on the faces. I find it highly unlikely that they don't know its themselves, they're probably so repressed and beaten that they don't even give a shit if they see something on their face.
The study you posted says this
>It is possible but unlikely that these children, up to 72 months of age, did not recognize them-selves in the mirror. Although the data presented here do not directly address the question of why they did not show signs of self-oriented behavior, we speculate that these re false negative responses. We speculate that children are recognizing their image with a distinct mark on their forehead but do not know the appropriate and acceptable response. The fact that these children respond with overwhelming inhibition by freezing suggests that they may be expressing social compliance rather than a lack of self-recognition.
>>991711
>These are kids who walk around with flies on the faces
Nowhere does it say the kids were bushmen
Here's Kenya's capital btw, seems kind of racist to me to assume that all of Africa is a shithole.
Also, the "suggestion" is one of the weakest attempts at avoiding the issue that I've ever seen.
They may attempt to dress it up but the data doesn't lie
>>991676
Okay so I'm about half-way through the journal you posted and I'm seeing no indication that the African kids should be inherently less intelligent. The article itself pointed out that the mirror test doesn't seem to reliably portray whether the subject recognises themselves. I'll read on but so far this doesn't seem to indicate anything about intelligence.
>>991720
Recognition of the sense of self is one of the hallmarks of development.
What does it say when the African children are lagging behind the rest of the world by several years in that area?
>>991718
I'm not saying its all a shithole, but they have very difficult cultural standards, of very strict parents and children who do what they're told and get beaten. Like the study says, the fact that they freeze when they see the thing on their face, rather than touching it, shows that they know it is themselves, but probably think theyre in trouble or don't dare touch it.
I find it funny that you posted this study to prove blacks inferior and when the study says that's not the case you start arguing against the very study YOU posted.
Data doesn't mean shit, it's numbers it's how we interpret it that matters.
>>990462
Only Songhay and Axum is worth mentioning...others are just sub-human
>>991726
>Like the study says, the fact that they freeze when they see the thing on their face, rather than touching it, shows that they know it is themselves, but probably think theyre in trouble or don't dare touch it.
Or mayhaps they think it's a predator, and they freeze from fear?
You can spin this anyway you want
>>991694
Mirrors are specifically designed for specular reflection though.
Water doesn't always show your reflection, especially running water. Maybe in a pool but in a stream you'd get a pretty poor image on most days I'd imagine.
>>991718
>They may attempt to dress it up but the data doesn't lie
I we believe the data alright. It's just that we interpret it with a health dose of skepticism. It said itself, even tho the kids "failed" the mirror test they obviously responded to seeing the mirror. It's more likely that they did recognise themselves and just responded in an unexpected way.
>>991724
All it says is that they don't touch the thing stuck to their head when they see it in the mirror, while non black children do. How do you know they don't want to remove it because the scientist stuck it on their head, so they think it should stay there.
It's a poor test. If a scientist stuck something to my head and put a mirror in front of me i wouldnt pull it off either, i know its there, it just got put on my head, i don't have a 5 second memory.
>>991732
>Or mayhaps they think it's a predator, and they freeze from fear?
Thats the weakest thing you've said yet. So you're telling me they freeze in fear at a reflection of a young kid because they think its a predator..
Don't be stupid
>>991747
Grasping at straws
They do not see a small child as a predator, i know you never said cheetah or wolf, how could they see that, they're looking at a reflection of themselves?
Africans are retards how much more evidence do you need beyond interacting with one of them for five minutes.
>>991753
I used that example as evidence that the conclusion can be spun any way the reader so wishes.
They say they freeze because they recognize themselves, I can say they freeze because they don't
>>991760
They freeze because they have a strange object stuck to their head and don't know what to do. If they froze because they thought their reflection was a stranger they'd be freezing every time they go out and unable to do anything which is not the case.
>>991764
Ah, but the reason they may freeze is that the "creature" is mirroring their movements, and that makes it an unknown variable, and the human response is to view this as a threat.
The difference is that the Asians and Whites realize they're staring at themselves, while the Africans don't
>africans are as smart as whites and asians I swear
When will this meme die?
It's not racist to see that the different races are not equal in some things.
I'm sure if it were a physichal activity test the Africans would be better, it's just that they're inferior in the intelligence department
>>991718
Then how do you explain the rest of the experiments? Children from places like Fiji, Peru etc. showed similar patterns. The correlation seems to be that the poorer a place is, the more children seem to freeze when confronted with the mirror test. If you want to prove that Africans are inherently less intelligent because of genetics, then you also have to explain the responses of all the other cultures that responded similarly yet are obviously genetically different.
If anything this shows more that about how upbringing in different societies affect the children's behavior.
>>991780
>latinos and aborigines are less intelligent as well
w o w
>>991774
>assigning the world's entire population to 3 categories and generalizing from them
There are entire African countries that are on average more intelligent than majority-white countries, to say nothing of more granular variations.
>>991785
>There are entire African countries that are on average more intelligent than majority-white countries
>>991787
If you're not going to post sources and expect people to believe you with no argument then so might everyone else.
>>991787
It's funny how racists claim to follow the evidence but they don't even bother to look at the evidence proposed by their own camp.
Richard Lynn found that the Irish, for example, are stupider than the more sedentary/urbaninzed African countries.
>>991771
If they didn't know it was themselves then they wouldn't freaking freeze would they. They don't freeze when they see strangers. Why do you keep saying "Creature"? It's a reflection of a human being it doesnt suddenly look different.
>>991801
>Lynn
>the Bell Curve
What?
Also you're dodging the issue, which is that supposedly "scientific" racists ignore the evidence brought by scientists from their own camp.
Asking for proof that Africans are inferior is like asking for proof that water is wet.
>>991809
If you saw a stranger on the street that mirrored your movements you'd freeze up as well
>>991813
Lynn has the most citations in the bell curve, I believe.
Also, while I seriously doubt that the Irish are less intelligent than Africans (since google doesn't bring up anything), even if it were true, the European average would still be better
>>991821
>google doesn't bring up anything
Well if it's not on Google it probably doesn't exist, right?
In his '79 article on the distribution of intelligence in the British Isles, Lynn cites a '72 study that found a spectacularly low mean IQ of 87 among 3500 Irish schoolchildren.
In his 2002 book IQ and the Wealth of Nations, he used several studies to calculate an average IQ of 92 for Ireland, but the studies that brought up the average are less reliable (tiny sample size, etc) than the one that found 87 IQ (they all found IQs in the high 80s or low 90s though.)
In the same book, he also calculated the following notable European IQs: Greece 92, Lithuania 91, Albania and Bosnia 90, Croatia 90, Serbia 89.
Many African ethnic groups have no trouble reaching similar average IQs, especially once sanitation and nutritional improvements eliminate the depression on phenotypical IQ from parasite load and cretinism.
>the European average
That's the problem. Racists wish to lump Scandinavians and Balkaniggers together, or Jews with Bedouin incest-babies, or Japanese with Nepalese, or Igbo and Yoruba with Bushmen and jungle pygmies. We're talking about groups that have >1 SD difference in their average IQs. You throw the words "white" and "asian" and "african" around without even understanding what they mean.
I'm so tired of all these ancient Africa threads. Can we PLEASE talk about Cold War Africa instead.
>>990462
>Why are myths about Africans never having any civilization, only living in mud huts, and not using their resources, and never had metal working still spread today?
Because people don't give a shit about Africa. Once we see Nigeria's population growing then I assume Africa will become bigger in the public conscious.
>>990497
Build wall.
>>990472
>Somebody give me a run down.
West African society was based around a collection of city states and small kingdoms. At times one city state or kingdom gained hegemony over the others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyo_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahomey
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ife
The Sahel was based around large trading Empires. The first of these was Ghana, which was replaced by Mali and later Songhai. In the 19th century tribes on jihad forged their own caliphates and rocked the region with war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghana_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanem-Bornu_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songhai_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokoto_Caliphate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulani_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fula_jihads
Central and Southern Africa is dominated by Bantus, a Macro-ethnic group made up of speakers of the many bantu languages, of the Niger-Congo family. The Bantu peoples originated in Western Africa and were made up of farmers and pastoralists. In around 1000 BC the Bantus began their expansion and in 500BC they entered the iron age. Some travelled south along the coast to the Kongo river system, others went South east, penetrating the great central African rainforest and emerging into the Savannahs of the Zambezi region. Others went east and settled in the Great lakes region. As the Bantus expanded they brought agriculture and pushed out or absorbed the native hunter gathering pygmies Khoi-San and Hadza and more. By between 300-500AD they had reached modern day South Africa, marking most of their current ditribution As the Bantus settled down their population expanded and small tribal chiefdoms grew into kingdoms and later empires. Kongo was formed around the Kongo river delta. They had a close relationship with the portuguese and converted to Catholicism early, around 1500. cont.
>you are now aware that 90% of the users of this site will never visit Africa in their lifetime
>>991115
>Unsourced map
Kill yourself, PLEASE.
>>991238
>The size of Songhai on a map is almost totally arbitrary and speculative. They did not actually govern the majority of their territory.
This is a myth.
>Furthermore, they're one of the Muslim empires of Africa, connected to sub-Sahara like a leech to extract wealth and deliver it to the Dar al-Islam.
What are you talking about. They're native to the region, their religion is irrelevant. They existed because the founders wanted power and took it, same as any empire.
>The greatest "accomplishments" of these people are laughable even in comparison with some of the pre-Islamic Arab city-states, let alone proper Western civilizations.
Completely irrelevant.
>Welcome to Africa.
Africa is mostly fine, the low IQ=retardation thing is bollocks.
>The reproductive strategy of these peoples was r-selected. That's why so many of their societies were matriarchal rather than patriarchal. The way they survived was to produce a TON of children, because a lot of them would end up dead quite quickly.
lol, you're talking absolute shit. They had the same number of children as any agricultural society and practically none of their societies were matriarchal.
I don't know why you're so butthurt about a largely irrelevant backwater, to the point where you'd make shit up and twist facts.
>>992109
ISIS pull shit like that despite being engineers and other university graduates with above-average IQ.
There's little relation between intelligence and horrible incidents of mob violence (see China, also the historical US) and public executions are basically natural human behavior.
>>992113
Ghetto niggers are stupid scum though.
>>991284
>Subsaharan Africa indeed never managed to get past early iron age stage
They had advanced metalworking
>small kingdoms at most
they look small on a map because Africa is huge. They were large kingdoms.
>no writing, no developed culture.
They wrote in Arabic script, Ge'ez and Nsibidi. While Nsibidi is incapable of rendering full speech it was capable of recording and transmitting information for economic, religious and legal systems. Culture wise they had a developed religious system, mythology, national epics, poetry and music, astrologies, etc.
>Given how vast the region is and how much they lagged behind other continents this fuels the inferiority complex of certain people and they have to make up shit like black Egypt and such.
No the fact is most people don't know about these native societies because most people don't give a shit about Africa and many get hostile when you mention that Africa was anything more than spearchucking savages, attempting to handwave away the evidence for societies in Africa.
>>991115
I don't think that chart is very accurate.
The Great Mosque of Djenne
Aerial view
>>991699
Actual kek.
Lagos, Nigeria
>>992270
Doesn't look very "Great"
>>992294
Reminds me of India
>>992267
Why the fuck doesn't anyone compile decent IQ tests? They do exist, I sometimes see them used for one or two countries in some blog posts that fly by completely unnoticed even by IQ-obsessed communities, but everyone still uses Lynn's dated and methodologically suspect compilation of a few dated and methodologically suspect studies.
>>992298
Its bigger than it looks
Nubians copied and stole Egyptian culture and architecture. This is fact and why their pyramids collapsed in like 50 years and are now just sand piles
Kongo is the most interesting pre-colonial African state imo
Their interactions with Portugal early on make them seem like what all of Africa would have been like if the scramble for Africa had never happened
Check out this 16th century Portuguese sword on the left compared to a Kongo sword on the right
>>990462
Because /pol/ prevents any kind of historical discussion that does not fit their narrative.
>>992379
They even had a coat of arms designed by their King Nzinga Mbemba, who changed his name to Afonso I and was by all accounts a bit of a Portuboo
>>992154
I actually can't be bothered writing anything detailed so I'll greentext the rest
>Kongo sends nobles to study in Europe, cool history
>Bantus on the zambezi form kingdoms based on trade
>Bantus in the great lakes form kingdoms based on agriculture
>Bantus on the east coast form trading cities and convert to Islam, borrowing much from persian and arab culture
>Ethiopia exists
>Somalia too, trading hub on the indian ocean
>>992379
Kongo a best
Saying "Africa" had no civilisation is ridiculous. However, it only seems to be North Africa where any comparable civilisations (as in, to us) emerged, and most of those emerged due to contact with outsiders.
Africa has never produced anything worthwhile that hasn't had some European or Middle Eastern influence.
>>992391
Just like how proper evaluation on the Holocaust has not been done, which is why we still don't have any conclusive figures on how many people died.
>>991754
>t. someone who's never interacted with an African
>>991797
>irish
>white
Grasping at straws there, senpai.
>>992447
Couple of million I reckon. I don't understand the obsession with the whole 6 or 9 million thing.
>>991115
>Real, black Africans (...) never had significant civilizations
>what is the axum kingdom
>>992327
It looks like a kid's sandcastle to be honest. Maybe it looks nicer on the inside.
>>991797
Richard Lynn is a Protestant Loyalist and Ulster Israelist from Northern Ireland
>>991474
The Americas were completely isolated and some of them had impressive civilizations.
>>991596
It's not true.
>>992757
dude it's made of mud. It looks the same on the inside. I mean, it's cool for being the biggest mud hut but compared to other mosques its pretty retarded.
You know what I don't get. Why everyone can't understand that every form of civilization has had some kind of kingdom, be them African or European, or Arabic, or Asian, or Mesoamerican, or whatever the hell you want to call yourself.
>>991425
Thomas Sowell isn't really well known outside of certain circles.
>>992990
WEB Dubois then
>>992990
and neither is max stirner or diogenes
>>991739
>>991711
Also see this
ll participants were from a district in the Western Province of Kenya on the border of
Uganda. Currently, the population is approximately 1.3 million, with each village in the area
comprised of less than 3,000 people. Agriculture is the main form of economic activity in the
region, with 70% of households depending directly or indirectly on farming for income. All
children are required to attend school and most attend preprimary school by 3 or 4 years of age.
However, children are expected to contribute to household maintenance through participating in
daily duties such as child care, fetching water, and herding cattle. For a variety of social and
economic reasons, children are expected to do so without causing any disruptions (LeVine, 1988;
Oburu & Palmerus, 2003). In addition, discipline strategies vary among households but range
from physical punishment to verbal threats and behavior modification—with physical punish-
ment or restraint being most prevalent (Oburu & Palmerus, 2003).
>>992109
One thing I love about Africa is they end up with all these football shirts and wear them to war
>>992331
An Italian bombed a ton of them to find treasure.
>Its an afro diaspora educated by Euro-American culture praising their homeland thread.
>>993142
>praising
recognition and refraining from mockery is now praizzing
>>993157
>Even comparing the Great Mudhut of Djenne to the architectural greatness of Eurasia being anything but falsely praising
>>990872
It's because Egypt holds prestige in the common mind.
Egypt is one of the big boys. They want a Rome, not a Second Bulgarian Empire, if you will.
>>993116
I was funded by the French but not French architecture since it was done in the Sudano-Sahelian style
>>993142
I could actually have sympathy if that were the case. This is just upper middle class college kids being uncomfortable with the idea that MAYBE that part of the world full of brown people notorious for being kinda a shithole might actually BE kinda a shithole. And although some movements and civilizations occurred briefly, they don't really compare to the rest of the world.
All that Will Smith propaganda in the 90's got out of hand.
>>992392
Uh, I'd never imagine an African king would've picked that livery for himself.
>>990462
because, with the exception of the Horn of Africa, their civilizations tended to be short-lived and were conquered, controlled, or isolated by Europeans, the Ottomans, and their allies before they could have a significant impact on the Atlantic and Mediterranean world apart from being a source of slaves, resources, and artistic inspiration. With a handful of exceptions that I can't recall right now, there were no recorded African inventions or discoveries that 19th century Europeans had not already invented or discovered for themselves by that point.
That's not to say they didn't have complex science, government, literature, philosophy, etc. but knowledge of these things were transmitted orally and committed to memory rather than papyrus or parchment so they were often lost once written western knowledge became widely available and favored.
These African 'civilizations' were nothing more than vague tribal confederacies that didn't even reach a Celtic field level of agricultural development, let alone any written language that recorded what happens in their 'civilizations' before Europeans arrived to do it for them.
The one Sub-Saharan civilization to have done anything of note was Ethiopia but even then, they aren't a Bantu people. More so, they aren't even black.
>>994559
>I refuse to change my worldview despite evidence to contrary: The post
All of these points have been brought up and refuted in this very thread, friendo. Maybe you should read things that challenge how you view the world instead of spouting memes?
>>994559
Kushites had a great civilisation for over 1000 years. And yes they were black Africans. They built OPs pic
>>994559
>ese African 'civilizations' were nothing more than vague tribal confederacies that didn't even reach a Celtic field level of agricultural development, let alone any written language that recorded what happens in their 'civilizations' before Europeans arrived to do it for them.
source?
>>990518
Japan never invented muskets, but I never see you weebs going "well the japanese are just a more primitive people"
>>994559
Great Zimbabwe and numerous other sites in modern Zimbabwe were most likely built by Bantu peoples.
Trying to judge the intelligence of modern ethnic groups through a cursory Wikipedia-article glance at their collective contributions to western civilization and culture is self-serving foolishness, as is treating almost an entire continent of highly genetically diverse peoples as a single biological race.
>>994576
What points? Everything I said was true, Africans never had the architectural, linguistic, cultural accomplishments ad Eurasia had.
>>994580
By borrowing a ton from Egypt. These are the same people who tried replicating the Egyptians as much as possible.
>>994684
I never tried pinning it up as intelligence. The reason for Africans not having a great civilization are not linked to IQ.
>>991186
Botswana is mostly desert, is inhabited mostly by a single ethnic group, and has an incredible bounty of diamonds and other valuable minerals. It is not a model for the rest of Africa but rather something of a freak outlier.
>>991227
>also, people with an IQ under 70 are considered mentally retarded.
No, white people with a sub-70 IQ are retarded, blacks have a much lower cutoff for retardation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxAhwYoZQKU
>>994502
Er, why not? he did.
Source:
Hilton, Anne (1983). "Family and Kinship among the Kongo South of the Zaire River from the Sixteenth to the Nineteenth Centuries, in Joural of African Studies 24
>>990462
Most people don't care to learn about Africa so they just know the memes
>>992379
Yes, holy shit
Two of my favorite "what could have been" scenarios are an independent Kongo and an independent Peru surviving European colonialism
>>990497
Why are so many nonwhites on 4chan self-loathing Neo Nazi cucks?
>>994847
You can be a nazi without being white, the nazis hated kikes and slavs but they cooperated with non-white nationalist groups outside Europe.
>>993208
Excuse me sir but do you not realize that Bulgaria once has access to three seas?
>>991115
>khoisans
>an entire race of super cute, slow-witted people
Are they the ultimate GFs????
>>994879
She looks Bantu, are you sure she's Khosian?
>>990462
Because western though when it comes to Africa is generally split between:
"Those poor niggers, we need to help them"
Or
"Those Niggers cant do anything right"
>>994866
Pffft, that's only like 43% of Seas.
FAGS
would you?
![Relief_Amanishakheto_Munich[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ADpgP8l.jpg "Relief_Amanishakheto_Munich[1].jpg")
>>995116
why tf she wearin a pineapple?
>>990724
I'm pretty sure it has to do with the geography of the place and the lack of power animals such as those found in south-east Asia (horses, goats, oax).
Some people may argue with something on the lines of "inferior race" but if that was the case there would not be any civilizations on Africa
>>994679
muh glorious nippon steel cuts through barrels anon-san. no need for muskets
>>995265
>the lack of power animals such as those found in south-east Asia (horses, goats, oax).
East African goats were imported to India en masse, and plenty of West African militaries used cavalry extensively.
African population had an indiscriminant disease load that did not validate the premium for cognition. Observe the quality of African language and you can as Wittgenstein positied observe the shallow quality of thought, the sort of timelessness is enviable but carries implications.
>>995444
This is Sapir-Whorf nonsense, it's been discredited by every accredited academic linguist out there
>>992441
Development doesn't occur in a vacuum, cultures borrow from each other. And how does one quantify worthwhile, arguably a sedentary lifestyle in areas with malaria, wild seasonal changes, and sparse resources isn't worthwhile when weighed against a nomadic hunter-gatherer lifestyle
>>991676
One half of chimpanzees pass the mirror test and all orangutans do. Chimpanzees are also demonstrably far smarter than orangutans.
>>995477
But why is it then blacks do better in verbal IQ tests than more general ones? If anything the cultural bias is in their (and all test takers) benefit.there are cultural and environmental factors to intelligence and teaching blacks more g-loaded languages has better development. Unless you want to just let their societies unfurl parallel that is fine too.
>>990689
cheating though. they had berber/maghreb/arab contact.
Your Bantu, Zulu, Khoisan, Bushtribe, Pygmies, etc. They were huts and primitive tools until colonization.
>>995534
>cheating though. they had berber/maghreb/arab contact.
Every culture develops through contact with others. How is it "cheating"? Was it cheating when the Romans took on Greek influence?
>>995534
Yeah and germanics and anglos were living in huts and using primitive tools too until the Romans showed up. By your logic only the very first civilization EVER should count because everyone was just copying them.
>>994559
A 17th-century Dutch engraving from Olfert Dapper's Nauwkeurige Beschrijvinge der Afrikaansche Gewesten, published in Amsterdam in 1668 says:
The king's palace or court is a square, and is as large as the town of Haarlem and entirely surrounded by a special wall, like that which encircles the town. It is divided into many magnificent palaces, houses, and apartments of the courtiers, and comprises beautiful and long square galleries, about as large as the Exchange at Amsterdam, but one larger than another, resting on wooden pillars, from top to bottom covered with cast copper, on which are engraved the pictures of their war exploits and battles...
The King of Benin can in a single day make 20,000 men ready for war, and, if need be, 180,000, and because of this he has great influence among all the surrounding peoples. . . . His authority stretches over many cities, towns and villages. There is no King thereabouts who, in the possession of so many beautiful cities and towns, is his equal.
—Olfert Dapper, Nauwkeurige Beschrijvinge der Afrikaansche Gewesten (Description of Africa), 1668
pic related is an artifact salvaged from Benin City after it was razed by the British in 1897
But naturally none of this counts, because these Africans interacted with other peoples so naturally all of their achievements were actually European and Arabic. Them goalposts have legs!
>>995444
I haven't read it yet but the first lines remind me of pic related
>>995554
Then refute what's been said
>>992834
How is it retarded? It wasn't meant for aesthetics, just as a general place of worship for the local population
>>995602
anon are you feeling alright
>>995602
You're right but could you please talk like you aren't a 15 year old fresh from /r/4chan?
>>995569
I feel this is unfair. I met this Chinese girl in college who is without a doubt and literally the nicest person I've ever met.
Her family was nice too.
Although, perhaps that's why she lives here now.
>>995602
>no other sources
There are plenty, this is just an example
>no archaeological evidence
The example you showed is one you mong
>modern locals are poor
Which has nothing to do with their civilization.Quit trying to connect a state's modern day position with it's past.
>>995640
*he showed
>>995618
anon your pills
>>995618
>>995602
"WE WUZ KANGZ"
This expression indicates a racist's confusion and lack of understanding. When confronted with something he cannot understand or respond to, the racist screams "WE WUZ KANGZ" or "SHIEET". This is usually followed by yelling at non-whites and going into incomprehensible tirades.
>>995554
lol @ TDOTR
I bet you never heard of TDTNTO
>>991309
And the greeks and romans didnt do the same for europe??? Idiot.
>they traded with the islamic world blah blah blah
Have you heard of the silk road? FOR FUCKS SAKE tell me you are only trolling and not so fucking dumb that you think cultural exchange and trade is some uncommon phenomenon. Fuck you literally cant have civilization without it. Look at the middle eastern shit weve found in viking graves!
Get
The fuck
Off
My board
>>>/b/
>>995567
That's really cool looking. Too bad the Eternal Anglo ruins everything.
>>990462
LOL LITTLE BITCH PYRAMIDS MADE BY NUBIANS INFLUENCED BY MED EGYPTIANS
>>993164
What's wrong with it? That it's made of mud? That's the best building material for the area, it is a fucking desert after all. Do you want them to pull marble and limestone out of their ass?
>>990462
>this level of naivity
>235 posts
The bait is real.
>>994695
>By borrowing a ton from Egypt. These are the same people who tried replicating the Egyptians as much as possible.
Once again, every civilization borrows from others. Do we discount Rome because they borrowed from the Greeks?
>>995861
LOL LITTLE BITCH GUNS MADE BY EUROPEANS INFLUENCED BY CHINESE
>>994679
>>995385
You're right but they bought them and integrated them into their military fairly quickly. More importantly they figured out how to make them. Something most non-western countries failed to do quickly enough. By the time the west was pressing Japan they had a 18th century military going against a 19th century military. I very different kind of technological gap than Africa and mainland China. Even then they modernized rapidly.
>>995870
The Turks are what developed and perfected early firearm technology. Even the Chinese took the Turks better firearm design.
>>995834
There was some really neat shit going down in west Africa, would've been cool to see how it might have developed in the absence of colonization
>>995906
I'm just being facetious anyway, seeing as cultural exchange is not some incredibly rare event outside of subsaharan Africa. But yes I concede the Turks were better at early firearms
>>990462
>nubians
>black
>>995920
WE WUZ WHITE N SHEIT
>>995910
I figured, but I didn't want some retard thinking the Chinese were some monolith of early firearms design and production. They just discovered shitty gunpowder and invented tubes to launch balls and rockets inaccurately.
>>995925
Was George Washington a native american?
>>995933
No, he was an English born American.
>>995930
Honestly people believing that would be infinitely preferable to the full pants-on-head /pol/tardation in this thread and every other African history thread, but that's just my opinion
>>995941
He was obviously a black man. George was the first black president of the United States, but the white man just wants to keep us down. To bad he was one of those slave owning blacks.
>>995949
Honestly the pants-on-head /pol/tard is going to believe that shit no matter what. No sense in deepening their retardation.
>>994695
Europe took agriculture from the middle east. I Guess western civilization aint worth shit.
>>995960
>agriculture
Not just agriculture, all Western (and Pisslamic) civilisation is ultimately derived from Sumer.
>>993142
>implying Somaliland's great history needs any praising from me
t. future genocidal warlord
>>995569
Wow what board was that, /biz/?
>>996169
It was here.
