Is there anyone in history with more blood on their hands?
Moses?
>>985095
>history
I'm sure this thread will be loaded with lively and intelligent debate.
Whatever guy that began the tradition of poisoning wells and eating Christian babies for passover.
Is there anyone in history more correct? No, there is not.
Julius Evola if he actually had any influence?
Alt history I know.
Carlyle easily
>>985088
Ur mom
he who must not be drawn
>>985233
You misspelled 'incorrect'.
>>985088
I'll bite.
Now, not sure if Marx himself can actually be considered personally responsible for many deaths. He was a theorist, not a dictator or political leader.
If we put together all the deaths caused by socialist regimes however, we end up with a high number.
There is no true academic consensus, but we have a rough ball park of 85 to 100 million, potentially a bit over. The bulk of these deaths are under Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao.
Some issues however arise.Many of these killings did not occur because of Marxist policies, but because of political expedience, ethnic cleansings or famines. Many such killings have occurred under non-leftist regimes, obviously. Marx did not invent, or advocate, purging the government of potential challengers to dictatorial power, nor did he advocate for ethnic cleansing, to the best of my knowledge.
Hence, attributing these killings to Marxist theory can be seen as disingenuous - especially given that non-Marxist forces and powers in these same regions (East Asia, Eastern Europe) did similar things on a large scale.The White Army and Kuomintang committed atrocities, as did the Imperial Japanese and Nazi Germany. The gigantic death tolls appear to be more symptomatic of total war and deep instability that occured in Russia, China and South East Asia following various revolutions (remember the Russian revolution was not initially dominated by Communist groups) and the collapse of local governments and basic law and order. It is likely that even if the people taking control had been fascist or democratic or trotskyist or whatever else, there would still have been bloodshed in the tens of millions simply for the virtue that we are talking about vast divided empires collapsing and/or global total war.
Now whether or not a socialist regime was worse than the alternatives is an extremely difficult question.
jesus
>>985853
>If we put together all the deaths caused by socialist regimes however, we end up with a high number.
Yeah, maybe under Atlee's Labour Government.
But you can't go on comparing projected to actual population growth and doubling the crude death and expect to get away with it forever.
>>985088
I simply don't have a bait meme of this dimension.
If someone has it, please post.
>>985088
Hegel.
And therefore also, Plato.
gengis khan
>>985853
If I remember rightly the great Chinese famine of 1959-61 occurred in large part due to the collective farms hugely over-reporting their rice yields, in some cases claiming that an acre of land had produced up to twenty tonnes of rice; which is utterly ridiculous.
I wouldn't say this could be attributed to Marxist doctrine either.
>>985088
have you actually read his books before saying this?
>>986005
I've grown up at the tail end of a century that was soaked in blood because he couldn't keep his power level hidden
>>985088
Adam Smith.
Capitalism has killed far more people than Socialism.
>>985088
Marx did nothing wrong. The author of a work is not morally responsible for the actions of those who read or are inspired by their work.
But really all of that's a moot point since Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro et al. did nothing wrong.
>>985088
Abraham
>>986026
so wrong it's right.
>>985088
What is it about marx that inspires so much butthurt?
>>985238
Much like Marx, Evola had no effect during his own lifetime, but is going to get oceans worth of blood on his hands decades after his death.
>>985088
God
>>985088
hegel tbqh
>>986068
You think the alt-right will get enough power to enact any violence?
I suppose there's also Dugin and his "Neo-Eurasianist" magicians.
>>986067
Basically his successors toppled a whole mess of entitled bosses, landlord, and assorted parasites who fled to the U$ and never hesistated to incalculate their children with tales of all the servants they never got to have.
>>986103
didn't know how ruthless he was until recently somehow
>>986168
The American alt-right is content to make do with vulgar reductionist broscience and leave it at that, but Dugin wants to ban the internet, chemistry, and physics. He's down the whole Kshatriya kool aid.
The CPRF are more important than him.
>>986221
How so?
Hegel has been posted a few times.
What is your guys' rationale for this?
>>986240
Because Marx's philosophy is based in Hegel's. They're pointing out that you can't blame someone for the actions of people who base their ideas in their intellectual work.
>>986030
100% this
smith was far from the first though--and if anything, malthus and townsend are the political economists to blame for shifting econ from humanist to naturalist (aka "since market economies are natural we don't have to do shit about people that are suffering bcuz muh economic laws")
for pre-smith discourse see de vitoria, grotius, & other jurists who were justifying "just" colonial expansion cuz muh ius naturale
>>986240
Lawrence told the British and French their borders were bullshit though.
>>986263
Lawrence was a hack. Romanticized as fuck, and his account of the Arab War is misconstrued and shouldn't be taken at face value.
Is there anyone who made the capitalists more btfo? Nope there's not. Marx was right
>>986328
>utopianist idealism and a shit track record
>btfo'ing anyone
why are marxists so delusional
>>986352
>Idealism
>not a staunch materialist
retard
>>986357
>distribution of wealth to create true equality
>not idealist
kek
>>986352
*scientific
>>986365
>distribution of wealth
Read a fucking book before you talk out of your ass.
>>986365
Marxism isn't redistribution of wealth but shifts in the legal status of property within society.
and no, none of the above is idealist in any sense.
No investigation, no right to speak.
>>986380
Godless materialism is an idealist spook no different than the rest of them,
>>986460
Now you're just throwing around words.
>Godless
What relevancy does this have
>Idealist
How?
>spook
How?
>>985088
Adam Smith
>>985088
>>986475
but muh invisible hand
marx literally din du nuffin wrong, though
>>985949
Yeah, exactly.
If you wanted to be abstract about it, whoever figured out murder or something.
>>986490
>figured out murder
Fucking monkey ancestor, it's all their fault.
>It was just a treatise bro
>>986473
>What relevancy does this have
Marx hated God so much he invented Communism to get even with Him. It's pretyt relevant.
>How?
A system that never stoof the test of reality but is tried again and again because muh utopia. Super idealist.
>How?
Just look at him and his Satanist/Freemason buddies.
>>986664
alright, mr. smarty pants. Pop Quiz; who invented Cucking?
>>986257
>Le capitalism is bad meme
The advent of Capitalism has led to a steady decline in poverty.
In the last 50 years the spread of free market capitalism and entrepreneurial endeavors has decreased the number of people who are starving on a day to day basis by 80%.
You want to talk about Colonialism as well and the deaths it has racked upin comparison to other forms of government then you had better research the records of those governments in pre-colonial areas. For example the ivory coast rulers would routinely practice genocide upon neighbouring kingdoms wiping out entire rival populations.
>>985853
>100 million
The 100 million statistic is pure bullshit.
>>986697
Capitalism isn't bad. Capitalism should go, just like feudalism, so the new kind of society would go.
>>986697
I gotta say, there are few people who are willing to defend neo-liberalism.
>>986705
>t. Stalin
>>986697
It's led to them adjusting the poverty line which overturning people's conventional forms of income. A lot of peasants lived on less than a dollar a day, but had hereditary land holdings on which they would subside. Capitalists are able to claim any induction into the cash nexus as lifting people out of poverty irrespective of it's relative purchase power.
Of course, Communism has never been strictly about poverty, but the relation which persists which force most people to sell their labor for 8 or more hours a day to survive.
>>986716
That figure comes from the black book of communism, which even the authors admitted was chock full of basic errors:
http://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/bookstore/commie.html
>>986716
No, the hunnert million statistic comes from the black book of communism, which even the authors admit was full of errors.
http://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/bookstore/commie.html
>>986727
>>986732
>>986481
Up the ass
>>986797
The book claims that x ( I forgot the number) people died in the soviet gulags. After the USSR dissolution, and documents were declasifyied, it was found that the number of people that was ever in a gulag didnt reach half of the death toll claimed. And, yes, it was an admitted propaganda piece.
>>986800
I was more curious about two people posting nearly the exact same thing in spite of the post cool down
seems like a generic response
>>986480
Thank you for posting the average modern Marxist follower
>>987196
>implying that west has any marxists who actually red Marx
>or at least Lenin
>>987201
Exactly. Such is the nature of the average Marxist follower.
>>986068
Evola was right about one thing - people are getting dumber with time.
Now wonder he's getting more influential with time kaksoispistedede
>>986716
Stalin is another interesting example.
Let's take Holodmor for instance. In Russian Empire 1897 there were 22M "Ukrainian speakers"(census). In 1926, after the WW1, "Russia(USSR) loosing quite large part of Ukraine, Civil War and genocide of 30 millions Ukrainians there were 31M of Ukrainians
Which means that between 1897 and 1917 Ukrainian population had to triple to actually make up to this number. Which means that they've had 15% yearly population growth, and I'm not taking in account death toll from WW1, loosing part of Ukraine and Civil War to outweigh for Ukrainians that weren't "Ukrainian speakers" in 1897, and it's likely that single one of this events would compensate that number.
Which doesn't mean Stalin didn't kill anybody - nope, he killed tons of people, Ukrainians too - and for very pragmatic and vile reason - but the figures people claim are probably twice as big as they were.
>>985088
Abraham
The man who started it all
Jesus, Mohammed
>>987196
>>987201
>>987210
>>985088
me
>>987212
>means of information gets easier andcheaper to spread
>dumb people becomes visible
WowWow, almost like if there is some correlation and society itself isn't becoming dumber
George Washington for creating the USA
>>985088
The mongols if we're going proportional to world population.
>>986712
Like at least 80% of economists?
Most economists agree that:
A ceiling on rents reduces the quantity and quality of housing available. (93% agree)
Tariffs and import quotas usually reduce general economic welfare. (93% agree)
Flexible and floating exchange rates offer an effective international monetary arrangement. (90% agree)
Fiscal policy (e.g., tax cut and/or government expenditure increase) has a significant stimulative impact on a less than fully employed economy. (90% agree)
The United States should not restrict employers from outsourcing work to foreign countries. (90% agree)
Economic growth in developed countries like the United States leads to greater levels of well-being. (88% agree)
The United States should eliminate agricultural subsidies. (85% agree)
An appropriately designed fiscal policy can increase the long-run rate of capital formation. (85% agree)
Local and state governments should eliminate subsidies to professional sports franchises. (85% agree)
If the federal budget is to be balanced, it should be done over the business cycle rather than yearly. (85% agree)
The gap between Social Security funds and expenditures will become unsustainably large within the next fifty years if current policies remain unchanged. (85% agree)
Cash payments increase the welfare of recipients to a greater degree than do transfers-in-kind of equal cash value. (84% agree)
A large federal budget deficit has an adverse effect on the economy. (83% agree)
The redistribution of income in the United States is a legitimate role for the government. (83% agree)
Inflation is caused primarily by too much growth in the money supply. (83% agree)
The United States should not ban genetically modified crops. (82% agree)
A minimum wage increases unemployment among young and unskilled workers. (79% agree)
The government should restructure the welfare system along the lines of a “negative income tax.” (79% agree)
Source: Principles of Economics, by Gregory Mankiw
>>988162
>bend over and let noblesse oblige take care of it.
>>988162
>The United States should eliminate agricultural subsidies. (85% agree)
Dustbowl 2.0 in 3...2...
>>985088
