I noticed that this board has a visceral distaste for Turkey and the Turkish people, why?
There is no way you can deny that the Ottoman Empire was a formidable Empire built on the intellect and prowess of the Turkish people.
Are you judging them by today's Turkey? If so, how come /his/ still likes China and Greece, despite their relatively despondent modern statuses?
Ottoman Empire thread
>>1155221
>I noticed that this board has a visceral distaste for Turkey and the Turkish people, why?
Literally every country that has interacted with them in the past hates them.
And they regions they controlled are less developed than the surrounding ones.
>t*rkroaches
>>1155247
No country has positively interacted with the Mongolians in their conquests and they were basically the USSR's pet dog for a while. Cant the same like I said be applied to Greece or China or Germany
>>1155270
In statesmanship almost every country cares by a longshot the most their own interests, just Turkey is more confrontational because the EU is more close knit with each other than it so it must take a stand the same way Russia does
France, Germany and Russia have all been parasitic and imperialistic towards mainland Europe, no
>>1155286
The French, Germans and Russians can't lay claim to striking the final blow to a Kingdom/State/Empire that lasted 2000 years and is the is the bedrock for most of Western Civilisation, although the Germans certainly came close.
Historical relationships aside, It's important to remember that Europe is "pretty much" over It's old feuds. If we ignore the last two years in which the rest of Europe has come to hate Germany again, It's pretty safe to say Europe is on good terms with Germany even though they started the largest War humanity has ever seen and were the largest player in another war 20 years earlier which was also in the top 10. Europe is far more closer with each other and isn't going to get at each other throats for the foreseeable future, even If the friendships have turned sour recently. The difference between those and Turkey is that Turkey is still seen as a 'threat' to Europe, Russia is too and that's why you see a lot of people hate Russia aswell (less so on 4chan, but a lot of other people hate Russia)
>>1155307
Sort of this, the hate is exaggerated through memes but don't pretend for a minute that Europeans actually like Turkey. Turkey is distinctly not European, and many Europeans dislike that Turkey wants to get closer with the EU.
>>1155221
Because Muslims. That's pretty much it. It's not so much about "the empire was bad to people", it's about "those muslims were bad to muh christians" and also "muh cosntantinople".
Turkey is a continuation of Ancient Rome
In all honesty, it's the smell.
>>1155221
T*rks are unanimously despised creatures. They're vile and treacherous, deceptive and gruesome.
I think people would be interested in it, in as far as people do like to learn about 'exotic empires', but I think people right now are sick of hearing about the middle east and islam for political reasons.
Islam doesn't seem so exotic after a terrorist attack, or when you can hear the muslim call to prayer from your northern england flat.
Im 6'8 (203 cm) and 120kg pretty fit and a drunk 150 cm manlet turk wanted to mug me in germany at 6am in a trainstation, (but after seeing that im not a pussy german but an eastern europen guy and seeing the handle of my.knife he went away) btw i cant speak german for shit, so natural dislike comes towards turk for me
But they kill kurds who i hate a lot, so i like turks too
Also they make some good electronics, kitchenware, firearms so we can say that they contribute something to society unlike kurds
>>1155435
Marry me? Not a girl btw.
>>1155438
No thanks
you STILL haven't released bannerlord yet
oh yeah and you still hold Asia Minor and Constantinople
fucking turks
Lots of Christposters who don't want to talk about history still mad about Constantinople.
>>1155270
You're welcome for the spices, jackass.
>>1155221
Because the board is filled with people from the blakans, because their autism leads them to be interested in history.
>>1155435
Eastern Europe, the Balkans, and Turkey should all just sink into a new ocean.
>>1155539
triggered
>>1155221
>I noticed that this board has a visceral distaste for Turkey and the Turkish people, why?
Because of posts just like yours. The Turks basically just did a smash-and-grab of Hellenic culture while contributing virtually nothing to Europe for thousands of years besides invasions and occupations and yet have the sheer gall to insist that they're totally white and European and that they deserve to be part of the cool kids club while at the same fucking time directly funding terrorism ad deliberately shipping terrorists to Europe as a form of psychological and economic warfare - and considering that something similar has been the MO ever since Islam set up shop there, that's really all you need to know about them and find their opinions of themselves disgusting if not plain offensive.
You're a bunch of arrogant goddamn cockroaches with the unwarranted self-respect and delusion levels of Korean nationalists but are even slimier and ready to stab anyone who doesn't give you what you want in the back.
>>1155396
>Modern-day Egypt is a continuation of the New Kingdom
>>1155595
>smash-and-grab of Hellenic culture while contributing virtually nothing to Europe for thousands of years
stopped reading there, why even bother posting on the history board if you know nothing about history?
>>1155221
To be fair. Because they are turks and muslim, and being major twats to many countries that many of our fellow shitposters come from. Simply.
They are just trash
>>1155647
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Ottoman_alliance#Cultural_and_scientific_exchanges
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_in_early_modern_France#Manufacture_of_.22Oriental.22_luxury_goods_in_France
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turquerie
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coffee#Europe
educate yourself.
>>1155661
>oh look, their french allies liked their clothes for a while;
>>1155661
>It was fashionable for rich people to import luxury goods from Turkey to show off to their visitors how much money they had
Wew. Truly, Europeans would all still be mud-flinging peasants a la Monty Python if it hadn't been for the heroic contributions of Turkey to the fabric of western civilization.
>>1155221
Because Islam is the real life version of Chaos from Warhammer
>>1155732
Not him but while Turkey was still clashing with the Timurids, Europe was already in the renaissance. Turkey did make many contributions, however this level of wewuz doesn't help your argument.
>>1155756
so turkey protected Europe from genhis khan 2.0 and as reward, you call them roaches?
Islam is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse
Take an ideology that at its core is about conquest of the west, then have much of the west hate itself so much it willingly imports people that espouse it
It's not just that Muslims are savages - plenty of people are savages. It's that we're being murdered by Muslims who are being brought here by our fellow countrymen.
>>1155780
>protected
steppe tribes fighting as they've always done
if you'd call the occupation of all the balkans up to Vienna protecting Europe also then sure I guess
>>1155841
>if you'd call the occupation of all the balkans up to Vienna protecting Europe also then sure I guess
that was some power play between two european powers.
European do it all the time
>>1155804
>>1155221
I just love the byzantine empire and the ottomans and fucking venetians destroyed it
>>1155850
But Turks aren't Europeans
>>1155905
ur mum arent europeans lmao
>>1155850
>two european powers.
Aaaaand there it is.
>WE
>>1155905
was byzantine empire european?
if yes, then so are turks
>>1155221
>I noticed that this board has a visceral distaste for Turkey and the Turkish people, why?
Culturally displaced empire. They belong somewhere in Arabia, yet they ended up in Asia minor (quasi Europe) and Europe. They are just misfits.
And they were the only empire ever to never produce a scientist, mathematician, musician, or any other person of significance.
>>1155945
Are you implaying that Turks = Byzantine?
>>1155221
pic related
>>1155945
>Was the Iroquois League Native American?
>If yes, then so were the Pilgrims
Are you sure that's the line of reasoning you want to follow, my dear T*rkroach?
>>1155221
1. The Stormfags on this board get extremely triggered that a non-European, Muslim empire was able to become so powerful and capable of BTFOing Europe for a few centuries.
2. Turkey nowadays is an absolute shitshow that is actively making the world worse with it's policies and rapid Islamisation under Erdogan.
>>1155221
Why the fuck would anyone like the ottoman empire just because they were powerful? They occupied rightful roman land for centuries and still do, they tried terrorize and conquer europe and now their successor state is rapidly turning into an islamist shithole.
Fuck off turk, the world will be better when most of you are dead.
>>1156008
>implying it's only stormfags who hate the cancer that is the turkish nation.
>>1156023
True, it's only Balkanites who do.
>>1156029
Balkanites, poles, austrians, lots of people and for very good reason.
Oh man it seems that this thread is filled with underage faggots.
Also to the people saying shit like they no culture , they had you just don't know it because everyone concentrates on european cultural achievements.
An yes they were european as a large part of the empire's population and leadership became european over time.
>>1156035
turks are alright desu
t.baguette
>>1156035
pole here, the ottomans was the only one recognizing polish severeignity during the partitions , we should have allied with them instead of the eternal germanics
>>1156037
>An yes they were european as a large part of the empire's population and leadership became european over time.
WE
>>1156046
Try to give arguments against then faggot.
>>1155499
Okay autismo
I respect their efforts in exploring refined sexual tastes
>>1155221
we attract autismo's with ebin turkroach memes.There is also some butthurt among the cucked nations
thats pretty much it.
>>1156118
I like how this pic was made by some Russian living in a shitty commie bloc in a shitty city in a shitty country. Well, whatever gets his through his life, I guess.
>>1155221
REMOVE KEBAB
>>1156168
Sure, im sure you are rich like a sandnigger oil king
Success breeds jealousy :^)
>>1156042
Shut the fuck up algerian, you don't belong in france.
>>1156045
Yeah so all of europe can be an islamist shithole like a large part of the middle east is now, let''s spread the shit around and cover everything in it.
Epik mah friend, simply epik.
Seriously though, fuck the turks, they belong on the steppes of asia somewhere, not occupying land that should by rights belong to the greeks and armenians.
>>1155221
Because they were a degenerate empire
>>1155316
>The French, Germans and Russians can't lay claim to striking the final blow to a Kingdom/State/Empire that lasted 2000 years and is the is the bedrock for most of Western Civilisation, although the Germans certainly came close.
Pretending that the rump Byzantine Empire in the 15th century literally embodied Rome and its entire legacy is fucking ludicrous. In a political sense it continued to be the (Eastern) Empire but they hadn't symbolized Rome to most European Christians, and even themselves, in a long while. Not to mention the fact that it had been steadily stagnating since Justinian times compared to the far more dynamic Latin and Muslim civilisations that were surrounding it.
The fall of Constantinople was shocking, but not because it ended 'Roman civilisation' and its accomplishments in the eyes of most. Mostly some romanticists from Orthodox backgrounds tend to assert that point of view these days.
People caught up in petty squables of nations.
>>1155991
False equivalency
However they do enjoy funding terrorists but hey its their border why do I care
>>1156261
you seems frustated there my friend, calm down, let it go
>>1155316
>>>1155286
>The French, Germans and Russians can't lay claim to striking the final blow to a Kingdom/State/Empire that lasted 2000 years and is the is the bedrock for most of Western Civilisation, although the Germans certainly came close.
Full fucking retard Byantine fanboy shit. I have nothing agains Germans or Turks but to declare that the fall of the Byzantines is more historically significant than the fall of Rome proper is obviously bullshit. The Ottomans didn't fucking topple Byzantine and send it back 500 years, they annexed it.
The real answer is Islam, people here hate the Turks because they are Muslim, and they made a Christian empire become Muslim.
I will grant that Islam as an ideology is as laughable as any other faith but as far as the cruelty of empires go the Ottomans barely crack the top fucking ten.
>>1155221
They are a clear example the Islamic world is one constantly on the offense.
They were the suzerains of pirates who were responsible for enslaving a massive number of whites.
But they have no historical guilt whatsoever and not a single liberal will try and shad an unfavorable light unto them because "muh islamophobia".
>>1156313
Nope, I'm an atheist turk, people hate me the same. There is actually a conservative turks saying that I love very very much. I'm paraphrasing but it goes something like this
"Even if we converted all mosques to churches, all minerates to bell towers, and praised Jesus contentiously, we will still be seen as a foreign, alien entity out to get them"
I would say he is right.
>>1156319
Do spaniards feel guilty for paying bucaneers to raid british ships in caribbean? I'm not saying this as whataboutism but Some posters itt are right. European on european violence is okay but if a non european does the same they get really really triggered.
>>1155963
pretty sure turks intermixed with byzantinians
also, had ottoman taken orthodox faith, you would have no qualm calling them europeans
>>1155841
You talk about Europe as if it was a country or unified culture. They were even more divided then, than nowadays and the Ottomans were just another powerhouse in the region.
>>1155221
I have a bone to pick work modern Turkey because it was built on the genocide and expulsion of non-Turks, but the Ottoman Empire was based
British and French greed in WW1, when they dissembled the empire and claimed its provinces for themselves, is one of the biggest mistakes in human history.
>>1156410
To give t*rks credit, all nation states are build on genocide at worst or expulsion at best in one way or the other. Take a look at the albanian population of athens when greeks got their independence.
>>1155221
they literaly achieved nothing but turning all the areas they ruled into backwards shitholes, even anatolia is mostly a passive region, even during the empire, compared to venice, austria or even russia they were basicaly a regressive military despotism with lots of vibrant multi-kulti trite and bling heaped around it, the only reason they even lasted so long after suleiman was they were by then 'too big to fail', so insted they just slowly decomposed for four hundred years, to the general misfortune of its unlucky inhabitants
in the meanwhile other people in europe printed books and wenth trough reforms and revolutions, though up new ways of understanding reality and developed science and technology, industry, trans oceanic trade and colonisation, everything developed in leaps century after century, everywhere except in those parts of europe under ottomans, there people remained practicaly illiterate, stuck in somekind of constant rerun of the 16th century
it was quite literaly like some p.k.dick nightmare, like on one side of the river 19th century europe was going on, while on the other people still dressed like its 1529 and got impaled on pikes and hooks in public
>>1156427
True but do not underestimate the westernization attempts of some sense able sultans who not only prolonged the empire but also paved the way to the modern republic.
>>1156305
Piss off, you ugly and smelly barbarian. You reek of dead innocents and desecrated nations.
>>1156453
>You reek of dead innocents and desecrated nations
proof turks are roman
>>1155221
Because Turks attitudes are generally fucked. Pic related.
Anecdotal: I run a small business renting apartments to tourists. Among the five worst I've experienced was a family of Turks. First, they were physically offensive -- all of them (mama, papa, two adult sons) were obese and stank to high heaven. I mean, like several-day-old bacterial funk, not fresh sweat.
Not the most gracious attitudes, but that's not a real problem. It's fairly normal for tourists who don't originate from Scandinavia/Germany/Netherlands/UK.
So, I'm showing the room, explaining to them clearly (and they did understand English) that if they need more towels, toilet paper, ANYTHING, just call and we're minutes away.
So the dumbfucks left a review on booking about how shit was dirty (though it was immaculate when they moved in), not enough towels, and several other forms of bullshit.
Never had a positive experience with Turkish guests.
Also: fucking ultra-nationalist genocidal maniacs with no cultural conscience -- with nothing in to be particularly proud of, lots to be ashamed of.
Argumentative/negative post here, I know, but you asked.
>>1156438
every time some sultan tried pushing any reforms they either got themselves into civil war or the reforms were mostly all torn down and discarded a generation later
this was mostly down to how it was actualy organised, the sultanate being more of a umbrella institution with lots of semi-separate military and bureaucratic bodies growing under it, and these rejected reform as a matter of survival
as a whole the ottoman empire showed a systemic tendency to be as reactive and regressive as it can possibly afford to be
>>1156366
>You talk about Europe as if it was a country or unified culture.
no I don't, what the Balkans were was Christian though - Christian lands being eaten up by a Muslim powerhouse
making it a clash of ideologies as well as a clash just between countries
You talk about European countries during the 15th century as though they hadn't drawn up the differences between themselves and Muslims
>>1156483
you mean a clash of religions?
>>1156471
Sorry italian bro, I wish they had better manners. At least we still don't have the reputation of chinese.
The imagery is very accurate. But its a two way street, Everyone hates turks and turks hate everyone. Everyone is out to get Turks and gib constantinopol , return to mongolia rhetoric does not help it that much.
>>1156495
"An ideology is a set of opinions or beliefs of a group or an individual."
???
>>1156471
so basicaly they themselves hate everybody
>>1155316
>Turkey wants to get closer with the EU.
I DISAGREE. Turks generally hate the EU and all of its member states. Even the government has done its fair share of alienation, particularly under Erdogan. Though their harboring of zillions of the migrants in the recent crisis does count for something positive.
>>1156483
Meh, in france and what is today germany, christians butchered other christians for belonging to the wrong religion. The "we are all christian" meme is a very recent invention.
The hatred was so strong that there is an orthodox proverb that states turks are better than catholics.
>>1156462
Oh really? the turks built a civilization rather then piggy backing off the achievements of others?
Hmm, no that sounds like bullshit. Get the fuck back to the steppes mehmet, you and your 15 or so cousins have been stinking up the place for faaaarrrrr too long.
>>1156519
We make desert and call it peace, just like Romans
>Get the fuck back to the steppes mehmet
Make me mr bitter diasporan who lives in west.
>>1156505
>The "we are all christian" meme is a very recent invention.
you don't do people in the past favor by acting like they were all retards who couldn't understand that ideologies on a completely different branch to their own didn't care about the twigs on their own branch
Byzantine Emperors frequently used their own Heretics as buffers between themselves and other peoples with other ideologies
like the Bogomils they put to oppose 'Scyths' coming across the Danube
>>1156333
is Mexico and Brazil native american?
>>1156471
How the fuck did/does the government stay in power when they're making all sorts of deals with the west? Do they frame it as some sort of necessary evil or do Turks write their government a blank check on foreign policy?
>>1156543
Second, but I would say that turkey is basically a satallite state of USA ever since Turkey pissed off stalin in WWII and begged USA to save them. However I do believe that NATO-EU is not compatible with turks, In mentality, in closeness etc. We should have alligned ourselves with russia-based assad-iran rather than west
>>1156528
>>We make desert and call it peace, just like Romans
0/10
>>Make me mr bitter diasporan who lives in west.
>>bitter
That the US is allied with you disgusting islamist shitstains? Yes.
>>Diasporan
Not from any of the nations you fuckers ruined.
>>Make me
Why would I? The marines will skullfuck you dipshit retards once Erdogan's plans to derkaderpa the fuck out of turkey are completed. You really think you guys are going be able to go full islamist and still control anatolia? lol
>>1156500
yea i get it ideology/religious beliefs, similar in many ways, practicaly the same thing
but you dont realy get full on ideology untill the 18th century since the necesary 'systems of thinking' werent developed yet, before that it was much more vague, dependent on specific dogmas and a few key political principles
>>1156543
Under Erdogan the Turks don't have much say in what their government does. I have no idea about how it was before he came to power, but I'm doubting that it was a bastion of democracy.
>>1156561
religious beliefs are by definition ideologies though
>full on ideology
wot is
>>1156556
Oh sorry didn't know you were just some "gib constantinopol bajk christian" cletus, carry on.
>>1155221
Hating on the turk is one of the basis of European identity. And European identity shaped the western world.
Hating on the turk also shaped modern arab identity, by the way.
Did the Ottomans have as much inbreeding as the europeans had among their rulers?
>>1156566
why not call him a Greek name if you were going to use sarcasm to mask your arsehurt?
you're acting like rednecks in the US (or americans in general) have a fucking clue what Constantinople is let alone the history behind it
>>1156556
You faggots supported political islam at the expense of secular turks who were more pro russian. I know "you" have nothing to do with it per se but Islamism in Turkey received tons of support from USA. Read how Erdogan was groomed by Abramotiwz for prime ministership back in 90, or how CIA agents supported islamic groups like Graham Fuller.
Only when Erdogan went berserk (as the islamist fuck he is) and acted against the american interest, the media suddenly demonized him . I have a long memory, I remember how he was called "a moderate conservative" or how /pol/tards were calling him "based".
Not saying turks are innocent, they did elected him afterall. But your goverment 1-protected his ass 2-looked the other way when he purged secular for far too much.
I'm glad you woken up from your mistake, but it might be too late.
>>1156574
Kek, true.
>>1156576
oh they do, they want to take bajk constantinopol, dunno what they want with that clusterfuck of a city or what will happend to the 20 million kurds-turks there. and I'm not asshurt at all, if anything I don't create posts towards americans to return to europe/13 colonies/whatever.
>>1155780
If anything Timur protected eastern Europe from the Ottomans. Eastern europeans didn't use that second opportunity because they're dumb, though.
>>1156565
theres differences, not every system of thinking is a ideology, theres points when something becomes ideology and so on, theres different kinds of logic implyed, different forms of state/society for it to work, but i dont realy feel like getting into that, whatever i say you can just claim its the same thing by your definition so whats the point
>>1156566
I don't give one single fuck about christendom, but that doesn't mean islam is not a festering boil upon humanity's collective asscheeks.
>>1156593
>oh they do, they want to take bajk constantinopol
source: your arse
most couldn't point turkey out on a map
>>1156562
I mean it took time to develop the current Erdogan system of pseudo-democracy, and there's some value of the importance of popular support anyhow. Look at how he shut down opposition media and tries to propagandize Turkey and its accomplishments whenever he goes overseas.
>>1156553
Wasn't that what the West was afraid of in the lead up to the Syrian Civil War? One explanation is that Erdogan really is trying to make a (Sunni) neo-Ottoman state via puppet states loyal to Turkey- beginning with Syria as he expands Turkish influence in the region. This would put them squarely into conflict with the Russia-Iran axis, while the West (or at least the US) would have little to no interests harmed either way unless Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or Israel were threatened.
>>1156595
not my definition at all, it is what it is from the dictionary
>a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.
religions are systems of ideas and ideals
>>1156539
No but it should be. :^)
>>1156583
The USA being friends with political islam is nothing new, they're one of the best couples in history. Their relationship is a bit explosive, but stable. Americans supported the Saud, Pakistan, the Taliban, the Syrian rebels... them supporting Erdogan is nothing new. It always gets "out of hands" but it never really hurts the USA.
>>1156613
> but it never really hurts the USA.
True, it hurts the native lands first, europeans second while America gets minimal if not complete immunity. Still I can't blame you though. Islamist until very recently, were very pro USA here. I hope erdogan wenting berserk will at least convince americans to cut support to islamist, as they did in afganistan.
>>1156602
Turkey is a paper tiger, neo ottomanism is pure bullshit and thankfully erdogan messed it very well in Syria (he precited it would end in 2-3 months). And to be honest with you Erdogan just wants to protect his own ass. He delved too deep into corruption-bribery-let alone aiding isis through his sons-son in laws companies. He is just a paranoid and more radical version of Berlusconi. He doesn't give a fuck about syrians,kurds,turks,isis he just wants absolute power so that (he thinks) he might avoid persecution-trial.
I don't know what will happend now desu. I do hope that west-nato learned its mistake of supporting islamists (see >>1156583) but they will deffinetly place another puppet, less mad and powerhungy and insane than erdogan. I hope he will be at least nominally secular.
>>1156333
>also, had ottoman taken orthodox faith, you would have no qualm calling them europeans
plenty of non-european christians
what exact European traits do you think Turks posses that would allow them to call themselves European or join the EU?
>>1155952
>Significance
Mimar Sinan, Ataturk, Suleiman, Mehmet II, Topkapi Palace, standardizing firearms.
>>1156607
>religions are systems of ideas and ideals
in some sense yes but not every system of ideas and ideals is a ideology
things like ideologies prove themselves by their own logic based on some preassumed conclusions and principles, they 'make absolute sense', theres a whole philosophical meta dimesion involved
religions make claims to divine sources into claims to truth and authority, any further logical conclusions are just theology
theres lots of little differences like that, religion can be a basis for or a central point of a ideology or ideological thinking, but its a different kind of discourse, like a set of religious principls that legitimise a ruler are not the exact same thing as a system of political logic that explains itself trough calling upon those principles among other
but like i said theres no point, youll just say its the same thing
>>1156504
Erdogan really, really wanted to join the EU initially. He even started liberalizing Turkish law and made peace with the kids in order to fulfill the EU criterias.
Once he realized Europe would never accept him, he went full despot.
>>1156646
its the same thing
>>1156624
as if your average romanian or bulgarian are bastions of human rights and have any european trait except for religion. Anyone west of austria shouldn't have been enter into EU in the first place
>>1155221
Why is there always a thread for this active? Have you not been satiated yet?
>>1156658
no it realy isnt
kind of like how a horse and a donkey are different things, similar, but different
but if you define one as -a quadrupedal hoofed herbivore- then obviously the other one is the same thing by definition
>>1156663
Ive gotten the impression from these threads Turks are really insecure. Any time someone says something bad about them they just start shitposting.
>>1156660
both of those are PIE peoples and languages though
They fucked over Southeastern Europe big time with their conquests. Some of the roots of the Balkan Wars, WW1, and the Yugoslav Wars stem from the Ottoman invasion of Europe.
I admit, Osman is a badass dude. He turned a meager tribe into the foundations of an empire that spanned 3 continents. He and his successors shouldn't have even succeeded, but he was the right place at the right time.
Also, I really roll my eyes at the insane nationalism that Turks profess like how even Native Americans are descended from ancient Turkic peoples. They're as bad as Koreans with psuedo-history.
>>1156672
I'm just memeing on you my man
>>1156679
Then why Hungary is in EU and Armenia isn't? Absurd argument.
>>1156622
Oh I know it's bullshit and that Erdogan is a lunatic. It's just an explanation for why he pushed away Russia when cooperation would have a better outcome for Turkey in both the short and long term. Makes sense for such a sad, delusional little man.
>>1156684
well, it still isnt
>>1155630
>holding on to the 2nd key Roman city even today.
>>1156714
That really blows. I don't mind the Turks having Anatolia, but Eastern Thrace and Istanbul should belong to Greece.
>>1156748
Not if Golden Dawn has something to say about it.
>>1156748
>aztlan spics
Just Googld this. Damn they really are butthurt.
And there were a fuckton of Greeks in Eastern Thrace and Istanbul, but the population transfers after the Greco-Turkish War changed that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Thrace
>>1156748
Just kick the turks out. Its what they do so they shouldnt mind if its done to them.
>>1156765
>>1156753
>Genocide,forced exile, massacres, forced conversion is okay IF we do it, hey they did it first years ago!
Problem is we live in 21st century. Not in the glorious days when rape-genocide is okay. So good luck moving 20ish million people from thrace-constantinople.
>>1156755
Fuckton of muslims lived in Balkans, who had nothing to do with ottocuck sultan, yet they were GTFO and settled in Turkey.If you are going to make this a piss contest it will never end.. and as I said above, in 21st century, given the number of t*rks and k*rds who live in Istanbul and east thrace (20 million, and those"fuckton" greeks would be very very miniscule compared to 20 million) it is impossible. Unless you go all the way to ISIS
>>1156797
by greeks I meant modern, yes there WAS a huge population, but not anymore. Similar to Rumeli Balkans where fuck ton of turks lived.
Let bygones be bygones or be muh aztlan muh constantinople fags, I don't care. Have fun ITT.
>>1156797
Pretty sure Turks are still doing it. See: Cyprus.
>>1156805
Northern Ireland and the Turkish Republic of Cyprus are byproducts of what happens when you introduce foreign settlers onto an island and then shit gets real centuries later.
>>1156797
>rape and genocide doesn't happen in the 20th century
most places in Africa, areas controlled by IS off the top of my head
>>1156828
Isn't it funny that those places where it a happens are uncivilized then?
>>1156836
definitions of what civilization is have always been subjective
most people would call nailing living people to sticks of wood and breaking their legs barbaric but the Romans did it and they're a model for civilization apparently
what is civilization to you?
>>1156734
I also dislike seeing constantinople in muslim hands, but greece is such a joke of a nation.
They were bankrupt half of their existance. They simply dont deserve constantinople
I want t*rkroaches to leave /his/, your attempt to improve others opinion of your country isn't working, everyone can see through your bullshit
>>1157061
lol, butthurt balkanshit
>The news of Mehmed's death caused great rejoicing in Europe, church bells were rung and celebrations held, the news was proclaimed in Venice as: "La Grande Aquila è morta!" ('The Great Eagle is dead!')
>>1156639
literally who
>>1156035
France too.
Poor armenians.
>>1156042
t. arab
>>1155221
9/11
No, seriously, that's it. Look at all the media and discussion around the Ottoman empire from say 1950 to 1990. It's all romanticized and flowing with grand admiration and on and on about how they were responsible for making the renaissance possible, yadda yadda, and how Vlad Tepes was just about the most evil man ever to live, and the crusades were a horrible mistake.
Then, come around, and especially after 9/11, suddenly we hate everything Arab or related to said.
Go figure.
>>1155317
But really muh Constantinople though.
Hagia Sophia was one of the biggest Christian churches in the world.
>>1155221
your pic should say ROMAN instead.
>>1155221
Because /pol/
to be honest the holy roman empire probably gets more shit though
>>1156023
>land
>rightful
pick one
They distored and changed so much culture and turned the Balkans into a shithole. Imagine the Balkans today if Byzantium took them over
>>1157435
>The media has a anti-muslim bias
>>1157435
>we
who?
>admiring ottomans for forcing byzantine scholars to flee to Italy
>ottomans caused the renaissance
they teach/taught this shite where you're from?
christ
>Vlad Tepes was just about the most evil man ever to live,
lmao
>and the crusades were a horrible mistake.
right
in what hell was this true
also
>turks are arab
so you're american
>>1157706
A stagnant shithole?
Byzantium wasn't making any great strides in culture or science, and Basil "One eye is all you'll ever need to cry" the Bulgar Slayer certainly shows that the Greeks were no better than the Turks to their Slavic subjects.
>>1157821
>Basil "One eye is all you'll ever need to cry" the Bulgar Slayer certainly shows that the Greeks were no better than the Turks to their Slavic subjects.
Armenians would've been a better example, Basil just re-conquered land from nigger bulgars who invaded all of Greece up to Thrace and the Peloponnese while Basil was busy with Scleros
they then fucked him at the Gates of Trajan, causing another civil war in the Empire which he only won by sucking Vladimir's dick and selling his sister
you'd be mad too
>>1157821
>Basil "One eye is all you'll ever need to cry" the Bulgar Slayer certainly shows that the Greeks were no better than the Turks to their Slavic subjects.
Except that Basil "Just fuck my sight up" II gave high positions to the Bulgara afyer he conquered them. Bulgars later on revolted when an other Emperor dun goofed and removed their rights
>>1157821
>Basil "One eye is all you'll ever need to cry" the Bulgar Slayer
As a Bulgaria I feel a little bit guilty keking at this.
>>1155539
But turks invaded because retarded greeks though they could pull off a coup and threaten the turkish citizens of the island
They didn't even take control of the whole island..
Most mainstream intellectuals and historians love the Ottoman Empire even though it was built on slavery and conquest. That's the kind of hypocrisy that moves contrarians to hate it.
>>1158398
Likewise, all mainstream intellectuals and historians hate nationalism and authoritarianism. But they love Turkey, which is an extremely nationalist and authoritarian country.
A few weeks ago the Turkish government commanded the Germans to arrest a German citizen for insulting the Turkish president, and the Germans complied. Everyone complies to the Turks which is kind of annoying because they are overall a shitty people.
>>1155595
>foilhat.com
>>1158410
>they love Turkey
How so?
>>1158634
Because white genocide
>>1156321
turkish muslims are more "christian" than lutherian christians are...
>>1158410
>A few weeks ago the Turkish government commanded the Germans to arrest a German citizen for insulting the Turkish president, and the Germans complied
Sauce
>>1156562
>democracy
>European union
>>1158671
right
Balkans here. It was okay in 16th century, later it was very shit.
Central government lost power slowly which led to more and more abuses by local powerholders.
Scientifically and culturally it was a backwater after it's golden period which was pretty short.
My problem is when modern Turks and Muslims praise it, because it de facto means they love an entity where Christian was inferior to Muslim.
How the fuck do you expect me to support such opinions? Of course I don't like it.
>>1155221
Only /pol/ and /int/ shitposters do
>>1158898
That's completely fine and I agree but then why aren't western europeans having nostalgia for their lost empires looked at the same way? There is something more here, namely Christians being subjugated by who they perceive to be inferior which ultimately makes them feel violated, causing the great emotional hatred we see.
>>1155435
>>1155595
>>1155732
>>1155892
>>1155952
>>1156157
>>1156266
>>1156471
>>1158898
What the FUCK? OP here guys, this thread grew rapidly and I didn't expect that but there's no meaningful answers other than 'muh feels'.
Like the metaphor I used in two of my posts, Turkey's operation is essentially similar to that of Chinese or Romans - in that they have bad relationships with most people and subjugated other nations for a long time, and because of the surplus labour did not innovate. Why do you guys respect them still?
>>1159018
>Chinese or Romans
Those two(especially Rome) are pretty much fetishized.
>>1155221
Turks are assholes and tried ethnically cleansing everyone they touched.
Most of all, they failed.
>>1159031
What exactly distinguishes them from Turkey? Turkey also had a large, bureaucratic continental spanning Empire with similar flaws and pros.
>>1155307
Turk diaspora is trash.
Also, Balkanites hate Turks to the core. Therefore they hate themselves as well.
>>1159043
They had better marketing.
>>1159051
how so
>>1156504
Migrants they created by funding jihadists in Syria and letting the ensuing refugees cross their border.
>>1159052
Rome: Marble statues, cool hats, assimilation.
Ottos: No statues(absolutely haram!!!), silly hats, do whatever just pay me.
Eventually people don't want to pay up.
>>1156497
Chinese diaspora isn't nearly as bad as Turkish diaspora.
It's the tourists. But then again, Turks don't go abroad nearly as often, and there's only 70 million of them.
>>1156543
Turkey isn't a democracy. That's how.
>>1159065
Wonder if when India starts largely industrialising its huge lower class population if they'll get a huge boom of impolite tourists that will eclipse the eternal rude Chinese tourist
>>1159018
The Chinese didn't conquer Constantinople and the Romans founded it.
>>1156755
The population change had nothing to do with the lack of Greeks in Constantinople. On fact, it was agreed that all Greeks in Turkey would move in Greece, except the ones loving in the City. It wasn't until the Turks began their nationalistic shit flinging that the remaining Greeks left. See Istanbul pogroms
>>1159076
They'll probably be a more mundane sort of rude, since most of them will have had been on the internet for some time by then to become at least a little self-aware.
Byzaboos get mad that the Turks were militarily unstoppable during centuries.
Because they are one of the few powers in Europe that the world, let alone Europe, could be said to have been a better place had they just simply not existed as a state. Ottoman society was plainly repulsive, their legacy in Europe is just violent conflict and slavery among other negative things, and even today they remain a complete cancer. And before somebody calls me /pol/ I think the same thing about Prussia albeit to a smaller extent.
>>1160157
>Prussia
>Cancer
Why.
>>1160169
Because as many times as I have seen long-winded mental gymnastics posts about how they dindu nuffin, nobody has ever convinced me that without them Europe would not be a vastly superior place than it is today. Their legacy is warring themselves into existence, turning a race of writers, composers, poets, scientists and artists into a bunch of jackbooted thugs, and then warring themselves out of existence and everybody else into irrelevance relatively shortly afterwards.
>>1160192
I know almost nothing about Prussia but didn't they arise out of a need of a powerful military state after the fall of the HRE? I think it's better if they become a warrior race rather than being the yoke of nearby nations.
for the sake of shitposting
obviously
>>1160192
>Implying Germany didn't have great minds when it was gr0ss
>>1155221
Muh 1453
>>1159018
>Why do you guys respect them still?
Because they contributed fuckloads to the world. Rome is the foundation of the West European civilization, and China for East Asian.
Ottoman empire, outside from few loanwords, contributed jack shit and only fucked over the region it conquered. It was so bad that even Turks under Ataturk attempted to distance themselves from it.
>>1156503
We love Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Palestine and Central Asian stans. And most turks are Germanboos which i find disgusting.
>>1160904
So you guys like other Turkish countries and smaller countries that are getting pushed around by much stronger countries you hate?
>all these buttblasted slav shitblood
good thread OP
>>1161322
Who was buttblasted after Vienna, And started losing clay after that?
>>1161350
Turks aren't crying about it on every thread about the otomans.
>post yfw the west STILL cant retake constantinople nearly 600 years later
>>1161395
Don't antagonize the retards please.
>>1155221
/pol/
>>1156330
Dude what?? Everybody knows that the fucking professionals at piracy were the english. Spain & Portugal were classy as fuck, not like the dirty frenchies and brits.
>of the turkic ppl
ever heard of the jannisaries
yes?
they werent turkish
fuck ottoshit empire
>>1155221
The Ottomans fucked everything up. This isn't hyperbole; the Ottomans were a blight upon European politics for centuries, and even their dissolution has irreparably fucked no fewer than three regions of the world.
Fuck the Ottomans.
>>1161517
>WE WUZ OTTOMAN AND SHIIEET
man i dont get the balkan people they shit on the ottoman empire but then they also claimed their achievement. no wonder that place is such a shithole
>>1155221
>there is no way you can de the ottoman empire was a formidabke empire built on the intellect and prowess of the turkish people
You mean built on the intellect of the roman empire with a tiny addition of turkish knowledge?
>>1156575
Pretty impossible since the sultans had tons of children with their harem and when he died his heir had all his brothers strangulated.
Constantinople wasn't even Turk majority until the population swaps happened after WW1 to shuffle out all the Turks from Greece and Greeks from Turkey.
>>1158713
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6hmermann_affair
Note that Merkel said they were going to get rid of the law in the next few years.
I wouldn't say everyone complies with Turkey, but in this specific instance it was actually a German law that caused this.
Erdogan just exploited it.
>>1159706
>muh constantinople
jesus fuck get over it you loser
>>1163123
Never!
I wish the Ottoman Empire still existed, as it kept the region under control, at least better than all the meme nationalists in the region.
>>1155221
The Ottoman Empire captured and enslaved Europeans, Africans, and other people from around Asia to buttfuck as concubines and catamites, and tortured and killed anyone who wouldn't comply.
Vlad the Impaler more than likely impaled his Turkish victims because he and his brother were made temporary catamites of a Turkish sultan in a peace treaty between Dracula's father and the Turks
>>1156270
Exactly. If Europe gave two shits about the Byzantines they would have sent more than a few hundred Italians to help. Notice that whenever the Turks actually posed a significant threat to European nation states and tried to invade Europe past the Balkans , the Hapsburgs, venetians, and Hospitallers blew the absolute fuck out of the Turks in every pitched battle. To be honest I don't find the Ottomans achievements impressive. They fucked up a Byzantium that had already been castrated by Veniceand the Sassinids. They took over some weak fringe states in the Balkans. Their best fighters, administrators, and scientists were Europeans or Persians. They tried to Zerg rush Europe in the 16th and 17th century and suffered crushing defeat after crushing defeat besides some corsairs who demolished a Spanish fleet trying to retake Algiers. Ottomans contributed pretty much nothing to scientific advancement. They were rich and were able to hire ot capture some of the best European military engineers, but they didn't really use it successfully on any European power besides Venice at Cyprus, and even that was a huge clusterfuck for them and very costly. Their vassals on the Barbary coast were a nuisance to Spain and Italy but once centralized states and regular navies arose it was insignificant. Militarily they only won battles that were close to their core provinces, and even then they needed to have overwhelming numbers. They were made irrelevant to most of Europe by Portugal's finding
Of a sea route to Asia. TLDR;
The ottomans have an exaggerated sense of self importance. They were a major power for a couple centuries but were never able to overcome a modern state and merely filled a power vacuum caused by Christian infighting and the Sassinids.
>>1165975
I don't think I read so muh bullshit in one post.
First of all the ottomans came to be centuries after the wars between christians and sassanids so that's irrelevant.
Also it needed almost half of europe to actually btfo the ottomans for good.
The habsburgs kept losing hard on their own against the ottomans and till lepanto the venetians and spanish were also getting constantly rekt at sea by the ottomans. The fucking persians were getting rekt and bounced back from time to time but there was one moment when their capital was occupied by the ottomans.
About the russians it was that the ottomans never really wanted to conquer them more to contain them as they only helped the crimean tatars as it can be seen.
So I don't get why are saying so much bullshit mate.
>>1166102
1- History is not a vacuum. If it wasn't the Sassanids it was the venetians, other caliphates, or Magyars who eroded Byzantium. I simplified a complicated chain of events cause this is 4chan.
2- it did not take half of Europe to beat the ottomans. France was straight up allied to the ottomans and gave them
Naval base rights. England also had cordial relations. Whenever the Habsburg fought the ottomans it would generally be the Habsburgs and smaller allies. Never half of Europe. The ottomans would almost always have overwhelming numerical advantages in most of the engagements. See every attempted ottoman incursion. At the end of the day the Ottomans lost the majority of decisive battles, and overall the prowess of their military is exaggerated. They never defeated a modern nation. the moment they reached the peak of their power they were beginning to be obsolete. I will concede there was a century where it seemed to be swinging in the Turks favor because they had the advantage of France distracting and dividing Habsburg possessions but once the Emperor put the French problem to rest temporarily he would focus on containing the ottomans. Note that the habsburgs did not attempt any serious reconquest. They were the containers. Their more serious opponent was the French.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman–Habsburg_wars
3. You can draw your own conclusions but the end game was Spain developed a global empire and was the dominant force in Europe after the conflict with no incentive to expand to the east. The ottomans decline relative to the rest had begun by the time of Lepanto. Austria eventually followed an ironically similar decline, but it was because of French conflicts. My point that every time the Ottomans attempted to confront an actual European power in Europe was futile is a fact. I overstated my position because this isn't an academic paper, but the ottoman's capabilities are wildly exaggerated in my opinion. TLDR; Habsburg k/d ratio was better
>>1166202
When the ottomans were declining they used zerg rushes but before that the armies were more or less even besides when the ottoman decline set in spain also started to go to shit see the dutch rebellion for example.
Also when I said half of europe I was talking about the great turkish war which included many of the relevant european nations going against the ottomans.
Also before the great turkish war the habsuburgs got constantly rekt in hungary else they would be able to reconquer hungary same with spain and venice in the mediterenean.
I mean venice kept losing their greek colonies aside from dalmatia and corfu.
>>1166202
Also the ottomans power peak was from te conquest of istanbul till the reign of suleiman which is still one century there aren't many natuons that had such a long golden age.
>>1155595
This!
I hate turks so fucking much
>>1159018
>Turkey's operation is essentially similar to that of Chinese or Romans
>Chinese or Romans
Just that Turks never invented anything in their history, or contributed to any way to civilization, or beat a militarily relevant foe.
Really, the harder you Turks try to revise history, the less respect I have for you every time.
>I noticed that this board has a visceral distaste for Turkey and the Turkish people, why?
It's a meme. Nobody here gave a shit last year.
This guy in pic related is an idiot though, all anti-Turk memes come from /sg/ this guy is the cause of that. Israelis, which has done far more to earn resentment from whites, are treated with respect and friendliness.
/sg/ is pro Assad, Israel and Turkey are anti-Assad. Yet /sg/ hates Turks over Israelis by far. THAT'S ALL because of pic related.
>>1161395
Oh? What's stopping the west from doing this?
Here's a little hint for you: It isn't the turkish army.
>>1161395
>what is the end of ww1
>>1161360
Underrated post
>>1155221
They are Muslims who refuse to stay on their side of the bosphorus. I mean I know Albanians and Bosniaks are sort of Muslim but nothing compared to the turk smell.
>The people in this thread are all supposedly adults
Let that sink in for a minute
Get your shit together /his/
>>1166942
wow bro you're so detached and mature
>>1155221
Let's see.
>Turk Reich deprives the world of one of history's most fascinating cities
>install turkroach capital in its place
>terrorism and poverty ensues
Anatolia itself was a place of flourish cultures and civilizations since pre-history, as its many archeological sites testify, until Someone came along.
Turks cannot fail to ruin everything they come in contact with. They are like that person nobody likes and won't go away.
Because it's a muslim, foreign "Eastern" people who, after years of wars, had quickly invaded and conquered the Byzantines (Mostly Byzzieboos are uspet by this but a lot of other people on websites like 4chan are muh Constantinople), and then went on to conquer Balkan land, and could have conquered more if it hadn't been stopped. They're a symbol of an invader, because that's the truth of it. Turks aren't European, no matter how much land in Europe they claim, it doesn't make it so. To most people in the West, Turks are pretty much just Arabs (of course they're not).
But the thing about the Turks that gets a lot of people. If they look at this conquering identity, that was still snatching land as recent as the 20th century. And it does it totally unapologetic, and ties it to the identity so much. Celebrating their "saving" of Izmir for example, when a Greek would foam at the mouth at the idea of some foreigner who has been squatting on their land, winning, and grinning the whole time. Sites like Troy, and Ephesus, now technically Turkish sites and advertised as such.
Pretty much, Turkey was a situation in which Europeans almost got colonised back. In fact, some Europeans did, which is a reality not very pleasant, and people don't like to be reminded of that.
>>1166976
>>1155221
They slaughtered the Armenians.
>>1155221
>>1155221
>I noticed that this board has a visceral distaste for Turkey and the Turkish people, why?
Because most of this board is populated by Balkanians and other, immediate regionals
All those outside the zones above, who frequent /his/, have been heavily seduced by Byzantine related idealism. It's really unhealthy, people...I know you like to revive the epic empire in your videogames and read about the glorious Komnenoi, cataphract formations or how the state was the true successor of Rome (not realizing how feudal it was, despite the word "Rome" above giving us a sense of a bureaucracy of the highest order, democracy and glory)
I'm not even Turkish
>>1156553
>turkey not compatible with Nato-EU
>But Iran is
ok mahmoud
>>1166231
That's just not true. They used zerg rushes when they took southern and eastern Hungary before it was a Habsburg holding(might be wrong about it not being Habsburgs then). They outnumbered the Hungarians by at least 2:1. Similar numerical advantages in every conquest. Bringing up Habsburg concessions in Hungary doesn't prove anything. The Habsburgs didnt care about Hungary. http://motherearthtravel.com/history/hungary/history-5.htm
Your claim the Habsburgs got wrecked in Hungary kinda shows you just looked at a map change over time. The Habsburgs actually crushed the Turks in Hungary in 1650 well before the great Turkish War. The Hungarian nobility and general populace got pissed because the Turks were in such a vulnerable position the Habsburgs could've rolled them out of Hungary. The Habsburgs valued the result of other conflicts more so they just ceded the Ottomans unvaluable land despite winning the War. It's true the Habsburgs officially had a lot of allies in the second holy league, but their involvement and relevance to the actual conflict wasn't important. The war began in 1683 and it was decided in 1683 at the siege of Vienna. The Habsburgs did get bailed out by the Poles but they still outnumbered 80,000 vs 160,000. You are citing a war spanning decades as evidence it took half of Europe to BTFO the Ottomans. It didn't. It took an outnumbered Polish army and a Sultan who wildly overestimated his Ottoman military capability. After that siege ended in catastrophe the Ottoman's crumbled in Europe. Russia came in later in the war after it was clear the Ottomans were unable to maintain their graps. So you just haven't read all the details on this shit. The Habsburgs politely declined to press advantage in the balkans multiple times. Constantinople's importance was diminished when new routes to Asia were found. Venice never attempted to reclaim lost colonies because they lost their trade, and couldnt face the Turks alone.
>>1167014
It's interesting to note that at the same century that the Turks conquered Constantinople, the Spanish finally extinguished the last of al-Andalus. Do the Moors get as much flak from Europe?
>>1167187
You didn't understand him. He says Turkey, not the EU, is compatible with russia and his allies.
>>1167513
Maybe Spain and Portugal. Possibly Sicily. The ottomans existed up until the end of World War One and they were doing a lot of genocidal stuff in Cyrpus, against the Kurds, and Armenians in the modern era when it started to be frowned upon and mass media took off so people are aware of it. It's why to this day Turk is an insult in a lot of European countries that basically means a boorish savage. Starting to go out of vogue for PC reasons
