What is the theory called that says that free will can only exist if God exists?
Basically, the summary I heard was that if there is no divine being, and if we dont have souls, then we are moving forward from the natural prime movement. If that the case, then every atom is merely an object in motion staying in motion, and thus all of our actions and movements are predetermined. The only way we can have free will is if given free will by a divine being, with souls that are able to counter physics?
I dont know if thats completely it, but does anyone know what Im talking about?
Determinism?
Inb4 thread devolves into shit flinging
>>979861
>What is the theory called that says that free will can only exist if God exists?
Madness.
>>979861
Seems like it's touching on sovereignty.
>>979878
This sounds like it.
That only through divine intervention can we actually stop the motion that has been set in place
>>979861
>with souls that are able to counter physics?
That would make no difference though. A non-material soul would still either do what it does for a reason (determinism) or for no reason (randomness). It has nothing to do with any particular physical laws.
>>979906
back to r/Atheism family, where your unnecessary quip will be better appreciated
So, basically:
1.Either the entirety of existence is subject to the laws of physics, therefore each person, made of material, was set in motion and is keeping in motion, with no escape, thus expressing no free will
OR
2. The entirety of existence is NOT material or subject to physics, and may choose randomness instead, and these non material materials expression is free will
This sounds very Aquinas-y
>>979861
1. Why is God nessiary for souls? Concepts of such things can exist without a God, ordained and governed by supernatural laws
2. Why would souls and God not also be bound by the same deterministic rules. They would also take actions and these actions could be deterministic. Merely changing from material to non-material does not change the fact that each event is a logical conclusion of a previous event.
>>980224
The non material is inherently not bound to the same laws as the material, otherwise it would be material.
Therefore, if God or souls not bound by determinism, then they must inherently be non material.
>>980669
Are there any laws at all? For instance the law of causality?
If causality exists than you have the same problem of potentially having determinism
On the other hand you can't have free will without causality. Since free will implies a choice causes something.
>>980682
Fight me
>>980682
>if you have a differing opinion than my own, gtfo!
Literally, unabashedly reddit
>>979861
Free will is basically a form a magic, so I'm fairly happy to concede an argument claiming god (or some other form of magic) is necessary for it
>>980224
>Concepts of such things can exist without a God
Nope.
>>980779
Fantastically argued point there mate
>>980783
>>980779
The Buddihist concept of soul can exist without Gods. So there you go
The Hindu concept can also, it is not the Gods that are the soul-binders but the Laws of Karma. In fact even the God's own Atma (sort of a soul) is bound by Karma. The Gods presence are not necessary for Karma.
In other words there can divine laws that operate independent apart from Gods. Just as the laws of physics can operate own their own so could anything spiritual.
>>980848
I was mocking the other guy, there is no reason souls in general require a god
