I've been diagnosed with "major depression disorder". And, although currently I do take antidepressant(s) I am beginning to realize that for a long time now I've been suspect - if not fundamentally opposed - towards the psychiatric enterprise.
>>937713
To start off with, the idea that I have a bio-medical illness - a problem rooted within the physical makeup of my body (specifically the chemicals within my brain), seems utterly suspect. And it's not just that no test were performed - but that psychiatrists still do not even know what that test would look like - due to there being absolutely no feasible, or accepted physiological model of the 'illness'. That is to say, we don't even have a semblance of a working and accepted theory of the causal mechanism behind depression. Psychiatrists hand out all manner of drugs, using all kinds of reasoning's. There's drugs to decrease norephinrine, there's drugs to increase norephinerine. There's drugs to down regulate serotonin, there's drugs to upregulate serotonin. There's drugs to inhibit monomanine, there's tricyclic antidepressants, bupropion, mirtaipine tertracyclic, etc, etc, etc. Does it not strike anyone as odd, that if depression really is a proper biomedical illness, then two patients can be treated with exactly opposite drugs (one drug raise a specific transmitter, one drug lower it), and both patients achieve the same treatment outcome? Which incidentally is only a few percentage points greater than would be achieved using a placebo pill. And when you take into the publication bias, the unblinding effect, the agenda among clinical rials down by pharmaceutical companies - you reach the maddening situation we're in today.
>>937718
A situation in which literally MILLIONS of patients are taking completely innefective medications (which can have serious and lasting side effects -permanent brain damage in the case of ECT), to treat an 'illness' which is poorly defined and understood, to the point where the doctors prescribing the medications can't even describe in clinical terms the condition they're actually trying to treat. Does this not strike anyone else as complete fucking insanity?
Here's a few sources. Check out their reference sections for further interest:
>http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050045#s4
>https://www.power2u.org/downloads/1012-ReadBentallECT.pdf
>https://www.power2u.org/downloads/Richard-Bentall-Broken-Brain-Critique.pdf
Let's scrap all notion of depression as a bio-medical illness and start from the very beginning again. Here's the set of behaviors and subjective feeling states which must be present in a patient in order for a diagnoses of MDD to be given:
• Depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure in daily activities for more than two weeks.
• Mood represents a change from the person's baseline.
• Impaired function: social, occupational, educational.
• Specific symptoms, at least 5 of these 9, present nearly every day:
>1. Depressed mood or irritable most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report
(e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful).
>2. Decreased interest or pleasure in most activities, most of each day
>3. Significant weight change (5%) or change in appetite
>4. Change in sleep: Insomnia or hypersomnia
>5. Change in activity: Psychomotor agitation or retardation
>6. Fatigue or loss of energy
>7. Guilt/worthlessness: Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt
>8. Concentration: diminished ability to think or concentrate, or more indecisiveness
>9. Suicidality: Thoughts of death or suicide, or has suicide plan
>>937719
Does it work for you tho?
>>937713
You can stop taking them if you want. Check with your psychiatrist first though. You can tell him everything you wrote here and I'm sure he'll be happy to answer your questions, and to help you develop a treatment plan without drugs.
>>937739
So what we have here in the "depressed" patient is someone who is not enjoying their life at all (in fact, feels persistently awful), who has lost interest and concentration in daily activities, and is seriously considering ending their life.
I don't know about you, but to me this describes someone who is going through an existential crisis. That is to say the person has come to the conclusion that their daily activities and experiences are not worthwhile, cause suffering, and that they themselves have no worth - their lives have no worth.
Is it not perfectly rational to then think about suicide, or make a suicide plan? That is to say, if you have come to the conclusion that you and your life are worthless, nothing you do or encounter in your daily life has meaning or value, then does it not make perfect and rational sense to think about, and make movements towards ending said life?
Depression, as understood in today's biomedical model, is nothing other than a realization of the fundamental worthlessness and pain of existence!
An existential crisis is when you suddenly realize that activities and values that you once thought were meaningful and important, are in-actuality completely unimportant and meaningless.
Imagine an office worker, commuting an hour to work and back each day, to sit at a desk for 9 hours, 5 days a week, 48 weeks of the year. He slowly or suddenly realizes the worthlessness and meaningless of his existence, loses interest in work, accepts that he's not enjoying his life, doesn't put the same effort into what are now known worthless actions, can't concentrate on his work because he KNOWS it's a meaningless and burdensome waste of time. And if he goes to see a psychiatrist, what does he get? He gets a pill no better than placebo and told to come back in 8 weeks time if symptoms don't improve.
What our patient here has realized is the fundamental meaninglessness of being an alienated worker in today's post-industrial society.
>>937713
All emotions are irrational mental illnesses.
>Let's give a depressed person drugs they can overdose on and die
>Literally what could possibly even go wrong?
>>937741
I've tried probably 7-10 different antidepressants and they haven't done jack shit other than cause mild-extreme side-effects along with addiction and withdrawal.
The only possible benefit I can see (and this is really stretching it, seeing as though there are better drugs for this role) to using antidepressants would be in using tricyclic antidepressants as a near-last line treatment for insomnia.
And I'm not exageratting here when I say that there have not been ANY positive effects from the antidepressants alone. The actual action of taking a pill for your 'illness' however, is a fairly powerful placebo effect, and seems to be the only reason that patient find antidepressants to be 'effective'. That is to say, people with mild depression can be helped by taking a sugar pill due to the power of the placebo effect. As the severity of the depression increases, the placebo effect diminishes.
In effect, what I am saying in this thread is
>psychiatry, and especially antidepressants are a gigantic scam
>depression as a biomedical illness is completely wrong
>what people are actually experiencing is the realization that the way they are living is meaningless and worthless, and that ending this sort of life is perfectly rational
>>937825
Try 500mg aspirin twice a day. Not Disperin, btw. 10mg of Methylene blue twice a say.
That might do it in a few weeks to month.
> is a mental disorder a rational response to the world
It isn't. Just ask yourself how being insane even can even be rational.
>>937825
You can tell your psychiatrist to put you on a treatment plan that doesn't involve drugs
Mine asked me if I was considering drugs on our first session and I said no
>>937825
The most important part here is while ending this sort of life is clearly perfectly rational doing this by becoming depressed is retarded. The rational way to solve this problem is to find or create meaning and some worth to your life.
>>937825
Depression is existential in nature but spergy STEMlord failures who want to make psychiatry a science and get fat of pharma kickbacks have turned it into medicine
t. depressed exneethikki who embraced nietzsche
>>937844
Rationality and insanity are both human concepts that are imposed on a universe that wouldn't even notice if the species went extinct. That being said insanity is a perfectly valid response to existence.
>>937825
>depressed
>took zoloft for a year
>no longer depressed
Treatment-resistant depression is a bitch.
>>937869
Valid response doesn't always a rational one.
>>937825
If depression as a biomedical illness is completely wrong, then why does the placebo effect diminish as the severity of depression increases?
>>937885
you'd be less likely to believe that the medicine was working or would work if you were depressed
Doctors say I'm depressed and shit, and they give me tons of drugs. It's pretty obvious they don't know what they're doing or what will actually work because they give me loads of different drugs all the time that do all kinds of crazy things. I just enjoy the roller coaster.
I keep telling them I am a tranny, and have gender dysphoria and is like impossible to cure, but they don't listen. All I want is my benefits any way. Fuck life.
>>937885
"Finally, although differences in improvement increased at higher levels of initial depression, there was a negative relation between severity and the placebo response, whereas there was no difference between those with relatively low and relatively high initial depression in their response to drug. Thus, the increased benefit for extremely depressed patients seems attributable to a decrease in responsiveness to placebo, rather than an increase in responsiveness to medication."
That is to say essentially that the more you feel like your life is meaningless and worthless, the less likely you are to be tricked by the placebo effect.
>>937917
by benefits do you mean free money?
>>937938
Yes. Money for being in excruciating mental anguish.
>>937884
Again, in the face of existence rationality is meaningless.
>>937713
I agree that we don't know the causal mechanism behind depression, but when I had it I also had shortness of breath, occasional cold flashes, and an intermittent feeling that I was missing a part of my brain. I don't exactly think those can be explained as being part of an existential crisis.
>>937798
saved
If you actually had depression you'd wish you had an existential crisis.
Just gonna throw this out there:
"ask your prescribing doctor the same question you asked us"
Your doctor does care about your outcome, and medicine is much cheaper for you than therapy, and he knows that.
some kinds of depression are definitely chemical, and others situational. they interact. bad life events can cause chemical changes, and chemical changes can cause bad behaviors that make for bad life events.
A combination of therapy and medicine often works best, but depression had broad causes, and your doctor or a therapist would be a great place to start.
Psychiatry is a real field of medicine intended to help people.
(ps, i loathe medication but it is real and it can work in the right case)
>>938005
what you are describing also does not fit either major depression or an existential crisis
>>938091
Fuck.
OP I agree and coffee and its increasing popularity is another party of it
>>937825
This is where Nietzsche comes in.
You can either be weak, give in to the lack of hope and kill yourself, effectively "losing" life if one considers survival the closest thing to a purpose.
Or you can be strong, and become the master of your own mind. An absence of purpose is not a permanent void. It is merely a gap to the filled by the individual's will. You are not born with purpose, you CREATE purpose by existing.
Do you want to be lesser? Or do you want to be greater?
>>938133
Coffee is a known antidepressant, isn't it?
Some mental illnesses do arise due to hormonal or chemical imbalances in the brain. These illnesses can be shown by hard science.
There are also the other so-called "illnesses," which are essentially an end-result of people displaying patterns of behavior that fall outside of the social consensus.
Identification is key here.
>I'm 16 and life has no meaning
I pity the therapist that gets stuck with you
>>937798
congratulations you're a legit crazy person. You should be on more drugs not less you fucking psycho
>>937713
no
1) people with depression behave in ways that are not in their self-interest if they were faking it
2) there is scientific proof that depression has a physiological cause
3) psychiatry is certainly flawed in some areas but that does not prove all areas are flawed, if a medical professional says an elderly person is suffering from dementia and they have all the signs of dementia, they probably have dementia and need proper care, this isn't evil psychiatrists trying to oppress someone, in the real world sometimes you have to rely on other people and if you had a bad experience with some authoritarian in the past I'm sorry but this is just the way it is
>>938154
It's a wagie stimulant that fucks with sleep.
>>937798
So you are making a thread to justify killing yourself because of muh opressive system?
>>937825
Anon I have a positive view of the world but had depression due to years of abuse.
Stop trying to box it in your sociopolitical view
Try mindfulness based cognitive therapy. Worked for me, no drugs.
>>937866
>STEM is a failure
>only facts to back his shit up come from medical studies
Are you retarded?
/his/ likes to pretend they are so very important while STEMfags are "useless" but it's almost pathetic.
I've been suffering with depression and hyper sensibility for quite some years.
The only thing I can say is medication was at best a crutch that break itself over time. Then you gotta jump the barrier to stop them or keep taking them and stagnate.
The worst thing I found is the total inability of holding a full-time job, the lack of financial security is a massive source of stress. Luckily in my country you can live with a bit of comfort on a part time job, sure you got no car, no social activities, no luxury item but being somewhat independent with your own flat and your computer as only source of entertainment is much better for the mind than being chained to someone.
Anyway, I've been giving myself totally at work lately, becoming the best employee at my workplace ( pizza delivery job ), seeing the change in respect from my manager and boss helped a lot and I feel I'm climbing up instead of sliding down. Something I never felt ( since daddy left, cliché I know but It's truly one of the worst thing that can happen to a boy growing up ).
In today's society I feel the depressed crowd is in a weird position, it's something now we know is true and we somewhat understand it, but so many "snowflakes" pretend to have it it's often not taken seriously. There's also the social stygma coming from people who think depression is being "a bit down", a bit of a dubby downer, instead of the "I'd sleep to death If i could" life threatening issue it can be. I don't know how to finish what I'm writing but depression is at least half rooted into society, too many depressed people are intellectual types, too self aware, they cannot find a purpose in the highly regulated world we live in. I'm pretty sure many depressed people wouldn't face depression should they live in a tight-knit community free of the stressful and fast modern world.
Adapt or die, I know, but the rise of depression cannot be ignored. Or maybe it's just all the shit we got in tap water these day.
>>938292
>Anon I have a positive view of the world but had depression due to years of abuse.
Opiates ?
>>938282
Wagie?
>>938320
No, childhood abuse.
>have had depression and been suicidal for almost 20 years
>never went to a doctor, therapist or used antidepressants even once
>>938353
Maybe you want to.
>>938377
No I dont, doctors/therapists are only being paid to care and they dont really. Antidepressants are just fake happy pills which do nothing.
It is the shitness of life and cuntishness of people that makes me depressed, the only cure for that is death
>>938329
Right, sorry, I understand.
>>938403
Hear, hear! I share your same feelings and it's pretty much turned me into an anti-natalist. Unfortunately, this makes me dislike a whole heap of people even more, exacerbating the problem.
>>938403
Depression sees far higher recovery rates in poor countries such as Russia and India.
Turns out having a large support structure like a close extended family is good fro the mind.
you are sad because you choose to take seriously what you think and what you feel.
once you learn to install equanimity, you move to the eye of the cyclone.
the cyclone itself disappears once you understand that the above clinging is what drags you down, that you are the source of your misery.
this is called the dhamma, see here
>>>/r9k/27412203
>>937713
it's true, you're being conned.
t. psychologist
>>938005
sounds more like anxiety issues and slight schizophrenia (only the brain part, that's the kind of weird ideas schizophrenics develop)
>>937798
Well yes, you can certainly argue that some cases of "depression" are due to a genuine and rationally-grounded dissatisfaction with one's life situation. I suspect that in these cases, a drastic change in lifestyle will be a more effective "treatment" than any combination of drugs.
That said, suicide is not a rational response, and if you find yourself seriously considering suicide you absolutely do have some sort of mental illness. If a cubicle drone feels empty and sad 24/7 and wakes up one morning and realizes that he hates his life, it's rational for him to quit his job and move to Bali to pursue his childhood dream of being a scuba diver or something. It's not rational for him to think "well, I've made some choices in my life that have led me into a situation where I'm not happy. Guess there's nothing that can be done about it, time to kill myself!".
I had anger issues towards my mom when I was in my late teens, she managed to get me to see a psychiatrist, asked me some questions, didn't say a word to him. After the session he gave me some papers to fill out at home, which was just questions about shit I liked and didn't like, like sports and academic categories like math and science, never filled it out.
2nd visit, still didn't say shit to him, my mom knew why I was angry but she chose to ignore the issue, and wanted to convince me I was the problem, anyway after the session he gave my mom a prescription for me for antidepressants. I get them, and it's a full bottle of some huge ass pills made by ELI LILLY & CO., I was so sketched out, I left them sitting in a drawer and never took one pill.
I'm glad I didn't take them, I'm sure I'd be completely fucked up by now. That whole experience taught me though that these psychiatrists don't give two shits about their patience, they're ready to prescribe you bullshit.
>>937713
well, from my point of view (which is true nightmare goggles) the only happy people i see are some children and mentally challenged people.
so yeah, it's pretty much impossible to live in the current world and be happy... the best you can get is to have some happy moments, but the rest is just a blob of sadness and greyness.
and even the filthy rich know this and that's why they are so rich - e.g.: forbes' top100 wealthiest have more money than can ever spend during their lifetimes and yet their sole purpose in life is to get more and that others have less - why? because at some point it becomes a $-dick challenge in which you want to keep competing with the others like you, even though money itself isn't worth much to you in a long time
so happiness should be what you get after successfully quest for something meaningful- but instead of hapiness you get a huge sense of emptyness all of the times; and if you're lucky some sense of accomplishment for 10 mins or so
>>938525
>it's rational for him to quit his job and move to Bali to pursue his childhood dream of being a scuba diver or something.
Its as easy as that, huh?
/his/ is a history board, not personal blog for the mentally ill board.
>>938597
thats /pol/
>>938582
No, of course not. Radical lifestyle changes can be difficult to make from both an emotional and practical perspective, although I would argue that people often overstate their difficulty.
The point is, if you hate your life, there are a lot of options in between "stay doing the same thing forever anyway" and "kill yourself", and if you jump straight to "kill yourself" you're clearly not thinking rationally.
>>937713
Look theres an easy way to tell if you have depression or not.
Are you sad? If yes, not depression, just sad.
Are you generally incapable of feeling anything, and all of life is just like one long jumbled monochrome blur that has no effect on you, except maybe to make you realise you are somehow not a part of it like others are? Probably depressed.
>>937798
>>938204
>>938289
I agree with anon that depression is caused by existential crisis, that his state of being and activities poses no value in them. There can be other factor like grief and loss, but these things strike suddenly and they mutate your life after the impact. So you feel yourself at least going somewhere, down or up, pain makes you active. With depression caused by daily motions that you've been doing for a long time (presumably whole life) the case is different. You are already at the end of the line in your head, you've ended up at a worthless job and don't do they thing you want to - and you realize it. Thus, an antidepressant won't help you unless you'll start working on finding another job or adapting yourself to the life you want to live. Worst case scenario you will just dull your senses until you become completely numb and even more worthless.
>>938525
>That said, suicide is not a rational response, and if you find yourself seriously considering suicide you absolutely do have some sort of mental illness
I know for a fact that majority of people have suicide thoughts on a daily basis, some of them are enjoyable little fantasies and some are heartbreaking.
But I doubt that person who's seriously considering to end his life has a mental illness. Suicide is a rationalized way to end the pain if there are no other means of easing it. And it's the most quick and practical thing to do, you can perform hundred suicides just walking down to your local shop. If a guy has no will, strength or plain simple survival instinct to sustain his being (which might have decayed over the course of depression) he'll just go for the most convenient solution.
>>938312
I feel you bro.
I really fucking feel you.
>>938730
>I know for a fact that the majority of people have suicidal thoughts on a daily basis
Based on what? The prevalence of suicidal thoughts in the adult populations is around 9%, hardly a majority (admittedly this is just based on the US).
Do you just mean like when you're standing on a subway platform and briefly think about jumping in front of the train or whatever? That's something that maybe happens to most adults on a daily or weekly basis, although I'm not sure if there's any data on it. I wouldn't really consider that to have any bearing on the actual act of suicide, though - these people aren't actually considering killing themselves in any serious way, and those thoughts have nothing to do with depression or other mental illnesses. Occasional intrusive thoughts re: undesired behaviours are normal.
A person who is seriously considering ending their life most likely does have a mental illness, because in the majority of cases there are other means of easing the pain. If the pain is situational, it can most likely be fought by changing one's situation, which is often within reach. If it's a chemical issue, there are drugs for that, and therapy can sometimes help in both cases. Sure, there are specific circumstances in which suicide is a rational option (terminal illness, permanent imprisonment or torture, etc), but generally that's not the case.
FFS reading Nietzsche should be a prerequisite for /his/ so we don't have stupid threads like this. OP ffs.
>>937713
People are made to be sad
Happiness takes up more energy than sadness so for efficiency sadness is the default of a human
In the past that sadness could have some amount of legitimacy
Say four of your eight kids died or your crop yield was poor or something
Nowadays all of your basic needs are taken care so you're sad with very little reason to be
Youre sad because you don't have something you want or you feel like there's something missing in your life like purpose
That's depression
>>938799
>>938794
What about "your country is never gonna change no matter what you do and even if you did try, your government is gonna try to make you go crazy in the hopes you'll off yourself and that's the best possible outcome. Also, you're an instrument of oppression just by being male and of the right age."
I'm from Singapore and I've tried several times to end it all.
>>938941
i lol'd then I sighed existentially
>>938941
Existential Comics is funny but God damn is the art shit
>>937798
>Imagine an office worker, commuting an hour to work and back each day, to sit at a desk for 9 hours, 5 days a week, 48 weeks of the year. He slowly or suddenly realizes the worthlessness and meaningless of his existence, loses interest in work, accepts that he's not enjoying his life, doesn't put the same effort into what are now known worthless actions, can't concentrate on his work because he KNOWS it's a meaningless and burdensome waste of time. And if he goes to see a psychiatrist, what does he get?
What should he get?
Therapy to help him develop his own life value.
Family. Love. Community. Etc.
That's the only cure for modern depression.
Old fashioned love values.
Sure take yer fucking pills. Whatever.
People need people. Relationships. Love. Interaction.
That's what makes life worth living.
Not fucking pills and money, which is why everyone looking for happiness with them never finds it.
>>937713
I keep thinking about suicide and shit
I almost wish I had no family or friends to mourn me, but then they're the people keeping me alive without even realising
>>939013
I've got something that will cure your depression ;)
>>938967
Just serve out your term and emigrate.
It's not East Germany or North Korea where trying to leave means you risk an even more painful death.
Even if causation can never be proven, I am amused that sociology being jumpstarted by a study about suicides coincidences with the rise of capitalism.
The cure is endorphins.
Your own body can make those, try that.
>>939074
That has always been the plan. Sadly, I refuse to leave unless I bring my entire family along.
Even they deserve a shot at living somewhere that isn't a fascist shithole.
>>938967
>>939127
i'm singaporean too don't be a little fucking bitch and suicide faggot. i think singapore is a fucking shithole too, but fascist shithole? i think you're overblowing the whole thing. and being an instrument of oppression, wtf are you talking about feminism is basically non-existent here.
it sounds like you're just depressed for reasons that only you know so it doesn't matter where you fly off to if you can't temper your mind you are weak and you will suffer till the day you die.
>>939222
not the guy you're replying to, but feminism and fascism are not the same thing
>inb4 wall of text about how feminism and fascism are in fact the same thing
>>939235
They aren't
Fascists are better than feminists
>>939222
>and of the right age
He's talking about National Service.
>>938941
The whole thing is arranged to make Nietzsche look like the petulant one even though any of the other game styles would seem childish or neurotic in reality.
>>939222
Third Wave Feminism is practically non-existent, but it's methods are used by Opposition politicians who aren't in Parliament. Tumblr faggotry is alive and kicking.
In 2006, our leaders have gone on record saying they'd use the military to take over the country if the people so much as vote wrong. I am going to assume the worst and prepare to aid in the brutal suppression of relatively innocent civilians.
One political party controls literally every government body, the state newspaper, is attempting to control the Internet and have shown a desire to fucking litigate anyone who criticizes them. Also fucking up a 16 year-old and insinuating he's insane when he's just 16 and maximum edgelord. Just because the government is publicly going after the LOW-HANGING FRUIT doesn't mean they're not going after higher-profile targets too.
We're missing the worship of the military and the personality cult, but give it time.
>>937713
Stay depressed then.Like psychiatry gives a shit wether you like the discipline.
>>937713
>>937718
>>937719
>>937739
>>937798
You are one dense idiot. I'm from Europe, so things with depression and drugs are probably handled differently here but a good psychiatrist will not just pump you full with meds and call it a day.
My bitch of a ex girlf friend is a psychiatrist and she gave a full rundown of her routine at her clinic. (Some expensive as fuck shithole in switzerland.)
So yeah, if you go to the guy from the ads, you are probably going to be ripped off.
Depression may have multiple causes. It may be something biological, it may be because you suffered through some traumatic shit or whatnot.
Bottom line: Mental Illnesses and other sicknesses of the mind are still the wild west in terms of medical understanding. Ever watched the series the Knick? Like the surgeons at the beggining of the 20th century, psychiatrists try new shit every day to cure people.
>>938321
9-5ers.
I do agree that coffee is an anti-depressant though, sitting down with a nice cup of hot coffee can make anything enjoyable. For a hot minute you exist to ingest the delicious hot cup of dark liquid sucked from Gods pussy while her lips rest over your face.
>>942131
>9-5ers
That's the source of depression right there.
>>938567
>so happiness should be what you get after successfully quest for something meaningful- but instead of hapiness you get a huge sense of emptyness all of the times; and if you're lucky some sense of accomplishment for 10 mins or so
I agree with this.
I liken our existence to being in a world where the ground is made of hot coals which burn our feet. So we must constantly hope around and move and jump to touch them as little as possible - in this way suffering has motivated us into making actions. And how does reality direct these actions? By strapping a stick to our backs and dangling a little bit of pleasure just out reach in front of us. This way instead of just hopping on one spot reality has produced movement. We now run and move in all kinds of directions chasing the pleasure. Perhaps every now and then we'll get close enough to smell the pleasure or even taste it, but it soon swings ahead of us again and we must chase, constantly running to try and touch the hot coals with our feet as little as possible
this is our lives basically. the hot coals represents suffering, the pleasure being in front of us represents our minds always imagining ourselves as being happy "soon", or "when I do x I'll be happy", or "I can't wait for y".
We're always imagining ourselves as happy in the future. This is so that we endure the present. Because the present almost invariably is a burden. We have constant needs to adress, food water shelter boredom lonliness, most of our ives we spend just catering to our needs. and when we finally fulfill them all, we are not rewarded with pleasure, but rather we are soon given over to boredom. this is because existence has no intrisic value. if it did, to merely exist would bring pleasure. and soon the boredom is replaced by a need that needs to be adressed again.
It's horrible really.
>>939098
you don't need to be mentally ill to recognize that society is imperfect
But depression can definitely be a bio-medical illness, try having your Testosterone levels well below the normal, or your Oestrogen level way too high. You will be lethargic and anxious, enough to cause issues with your daily life that will lead you to depression.
>Is depression a rational response to the world?
Yes. But depression =/= major depression, which is an illness. Major depression means irrationality.
You moron. Get over yourself.
>>937713
Is this a covert Scientology rally?
Of course it is, OP.
And suicide is a rational solution too.
But revolution is a better one. Aus der krankheit eine waffe machen !
>>937718
its because we treat only the physical and pretend anything beyond doesn't exist.
the physical can effect the spiritual but not solve all issues.
Hit the gym you whiny fucks.
>>942571
depressive as fuck... why can't we just supress our logical thinking and just behave like fucking animals?
Major depression here. I've been depressed for the last 10+ years, or at least thats the diagnosis. Been treated for such couple of times, it never truly goes away. By depressed, I don't mean being sad or crying but rather the apathy and anhedonia and even analgesia to a degree. But the overall symptoms(at least for me) include asociability, asexuality, lack of interest or enjoyable feeling, lack of speech, lack or dulled feelings, etc However one major upside is I'm very logical and analytical about things.
I've thought about suicide couple of times, but mostly from a rational stand point and not an emotional distress. I also lack the normal human socialization(touch-less, kiss-less, virgin and even conversation-less with opposite sex aside from strictly business related). Also diagnosed with autism, so there maybe some link to this. No I'm not a child, but almost 30.
The answer to whether or not depression is a rational answer is meaningless. Rationality is a human concept. In the grand scheme of things, depression is a normal functional system of the body or at least thats my belief. There are studies that point to depression being linked to gut floras, these may have some truth to it.
>do you run for at least 10 hours a week?
>do you eat well (little sugar, much protein and vegetables)?
>do you take vitamins?
>do you have a close knit small social group you interact with on at least a daily basis?
>do you spend at least 10 hours a week actually being outside?
>do you get enough sun?
if the answer to these is no, then youre leading a grossly unnatural life and human biology hasnt caught up to society yet. youre depressed to try and make you change your situation, but in modernity its very hard to do so and go back to naturally happy human lifestyle, i.e. long distance running hunter gatherer from east africa living in a small/medium social group.
depression is a modern/large urbanised isolated society illness, suicide seems like a nice option because it allows you to escape from your current (deeply unnatural) lifestyle.
>>946044
>no
>yes
>no
>no
>yes
>yes
not exercising or taking artificial vitamins isn't grossly unnatural for human beings. we've adapted to the lifestyle of not having to run after a deer for 2 hours to get food at this point. you see, humans want to live in safe environments that don't require them to be alert all the time. I really doubt that being "unnatural" can be a cause of depression.
a lot of things are just too much of an effort for too little return for me. I don't think living in a farmhouse would suddenly turn me into a sociable person with high work ethics. This depression is making it difficult for me to enjoy things in the first place, you see. I want to be able to enjoy social contact, I want to be able to enjoy working on things, but they cost too much strain.
Psychiatry is still in the dark ages.
>>948664
Please, tell me more. And please do not use ANYTHING from Dianetics. Or anything L. Ron Hubbard wrote.
>>937718
>psychiatrists still do not even know what that test would look like
They know it perfectly since the clinical depression is caused by hormonal dis-balance and there are few types of them.
Typical "depressed" people aren't clinical though. They are people who have troubles with problem-solving of sort(or accepting the non-perfect situation they're in) and are delving into depression. And here you can give them even different meds because the point here is to stop them from being sad and unwilling to act in any way(if you give them meds at all).
Even later you have situations where you can't give this or this pill because of some other illness(bipolars for example) and here you're giving different meds AGAIN.
Did I cleared it out?
And no, depression isn't rational response to the state of world, rational response is to either adopt yourself to the world or shape the world to yourself, not to post shit on the internet saying that everybody else but you is wrong and they should leave you alone in misery even if you come to them to seek help.
Funny enough this thread is here, literally just got back from the GP who has prescribed me Fluoxetine (Prozac). Despite everything, the moodswings and apathy/anhedonia I don't want to take them. The thought of SSRI's and the side affects worry me.
>>938941
Schopenhauer has it hard.
>>945507
>implying we don't already
You fucking monkey.
>>949365
>>949372
>>948713
What emotions are responsible for phenomena like spousal/child abuse?
Other than some old theories about operant conditioning and reaction formation and ambiguous meme terms like "hubris" or "frustration" there is virtually nothing.
For whatever reason psychology has never been objectively analyzed.
>>948577
>not exercising isn't grossly unnatural
>ensuring you have a healthy daily supply of essential vitamins is bad for you and unnatural
>talking to people is too much effort so i wont do it
top kek
and you wonder why you're a shut in who hates social contact? you think in ~10,000 years the human body has adapted sufficiently to a completely sedentary lifestyle of sitting inside staring at a bright blue light emitter? wew lad, get a grip, just trying to help, if you want "muh logic" for an inherently bullshit mental state that we quite clearly have no real understanding of (SSRIs are a joke) then by all means keep deluding yourself.
>This depression is making it difficult for me to enjoy things in the first place, you see. I want to be able to enjoy social contact, I want to be able to enjoy working on things, but they cost too much strain.
oh, nevermind, here's the problem: you want somebody to hand you normality on a silver platter.
let me tell you mate, every single day i wake up and all i want to do is lie in bed all day doing fuck all. i spent my late adolescence doing entirely just that, every single fucking day. but i also really dont want that to be my life, so i fight it and get up and do shit with people outside. i exercise. nobody is going to help you. no drug is going to make you normal. there is no normal, anyway. you are entirely in control of your own destiny, stop bullshitting with this "muh depression" crap. you people are all the same, you think it like a broken bone and if you leave it in a cast for 4 weeks it heals on its own. that you just wait to heal and then one day youre normal. it isnt. you have to work every single day, every single hour, every single minute to break out of it. if you havent, you arent trying hard enough.
>>949536
you are your own project. nobody can change your mental state but you. if you sit there wanking all day thinking "achieving a breakthrough is too difficult" then guess what lad, you wont do it. start something rather than trying to logic ur way out of doing anything. dont rob yourself of agency.
>"BUT MUH BRAIN CHEMSTRY"
then just take fuck loads of acid if you cant be arsed to try, its not like your life is worth anything anyway if youre complaining about depression on 4chan.
fucking depressed people who want their life to change by putting in literally no effort sicken me to my very being. im sick of their whining, their pettiness, their self-defeating self-pitying cries for help. do something to change your life or stfu.
>>949536
>>949537
you're implying very hard here that I'm not putting any effort into getting out of my depression. In fact, I have made an improvement in my lifestyle and general well-being compared to a few months ago. If anything the Citalopram they're prescribing me right now seems to hinder that progression I was making, but I'm just going along and trying out different methods to rid myself of this anguish I'm in.
If you want to know, I've never really liked social contact and I don't think that's going to change. What I do know is that it used to be a lot easier for me to engage with people before I got into this depression. My psychiatrist tells me I have schizoid symptoms, but it can also just be a personality trait.
Besides all of that, I take care of my body fairly well. I do eat vegetables, make my own meals, and watch my sugar intake. I do go outside during the daytime and exercise occasionally. I, however, don't think it's natural to overdo any of that. I do think humans have adapted to a partially sedentary lifestyle since that's what most people seem to enjoy living like. All of this "our ancient roots are the most natural" stuff is something I don't believe in since humans now aren't the same they were 5,000 years ago.
And yes, we don't really know what depression is and what exactly causes it. People have done some decent guesses and I'm willing to participate in the findings they made. It might not give me the outcome I want but so be it.
And my incompetence isn't caused by laziness, I know so because throughout my major depression I've had numerous days that made me really active the same way I used to be. I'm not asking to get joy out of things that require effort. I'm asking to feel satisfaction for things at all.
>>937713
All of psychiatry is a fraud. if you want to avoid ever having a psychiatric disease, just dont goto a psychiatrist. all medical sciences have been perverted and corrupted by pharmaceutical industry. but that is the problem with psychiatry. the very foundations of psychiatry are built on fraud unlike the other medical fields. although i am no fan of science myself, even i would not defame science by calling psychiatry that.
here is something about depression.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISptt3CRAqc
you should read the works by journalist Robert Whitaker. he has written a few books about the fraud of psychiatry. his book mad in america launched a revolution and started a website called http://www.madinamerica.com/
i also recommend joanna moncrief. she is a faculty of psychiatry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV1S5zw096U
but the best guys to read about the phisophy of psychiatry is Thomas Szasz, who was himself a psychiatrist. when you get to study his life and work you will be surprised that such a man existed. you should see some of his videos on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvpkLvxsspg
the best guy to talk about the fraud of lack of science of psychiatry is Peter Breggin. he has written books and has a youtube channel. he is also a psychiatrist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F_kLbtnWWM&list=PLdo601sRKNc70BA5MV51kS-Mr6ypsvd1F
the above is a link to Breggin's simple truths about psychiatry playlist. you should check out his videos.
here is something from Robert Whitaker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R6MXO2j0V0
the above is the first part of his video presentation. there is a lot more to this. i have done a lot of research on this. if you have more questions, just let me know.
The important thing to understand is that the problems in my life exist because all of you exist, so do the nice thing and stop existing
>>950097
cont
when the life of this world has become hell, it is those who are well adjusted that have something wrong with them. the fraud of psychiatry does not just expose how easy it is to fool people if you have big corporate money, it also exposes the truth of the religion called science. but only those with understanding can see it.
for those more intrested in the fraud happening in the social and behavioral science i recommend the works of Jay Joseph.
It seems a lot of people here are quite unhappy with therapists and their methods, but two years ago I was in the gutter and trying to kill myself. I got therapeutic help, and now I don't feel that depression that was so soul-crushing. I just wanted to post this
>>950273
the only benefit you get from so called therapy is that you get company of another human who is willing to listen to you. this human might be genuinely intrested or might be faking. depending on how much you can tell such things, you might be fooled by him into this he cares if he does not care. in any case, there are better methods of getting firendly human contact and a sense of belonging. if only the fraudsters of psychiatry would get out of the way.
btw the reason i said 'so called therapy' is becasue therapy implies a medical intervention. and there is nothing medically worng with the person undergoing stressfull emotions. Thomas Szasz does a good job of mocking the terminology used by psychiatry (therapy, illness, disorder, etc). unfortunately, this terminology has become part of the everyday language.
>>937713
SSRIs do nothing for 60% of mild to moderate cases of depression. Get off them while you still can.
>>950097
thanks for compiling this post man this is really useful stuff!
